Lapras definitely benefits from its Water typing but I love it as an Ice type too. In Red Blue and Yellow, a Lapras with Surf Ice Beam Thunderbolt and Psychic can single-handedly crush the Elite Four
One of my biggest grievances with Ice is how long it takes to find them in the game. Up until Sun and Moon, it was near impossible to find an Ice type until late game since Pokemon always put icy areas as late game locations. The biggest showcase of this is how terribly Glaceon was treated compared to Leafeon. One of them gets their rock in the first or second forest and the other waits till super late game. It's not even like most Ice types are good like Dragon, another rare type.
if i recall, in Unova (Black 2 & White 2 cause wild eevee can be found in the main story) you couldn't get leafeon or glaceon during the main story because their rocks are in the postgame, as for other regions: Sinnoh: not until you've gotten 6 badges Kalos: not until you have 6 badges and surf Alola: literally in "Victory Road" compared to the moss rock which is available much earlier aside from in Unova and Kalos: for Unova it's not until postgame and for Kalos it's super late being right around the time you have to battle Wulfric
@@bulborb8756 Does ORAS count towards the argument? The ice rock is near the 7th gym while the moss rock is before the 1st one, but by the time you can find wild Eevees you'll have access to both.
@@bluekirby_64 i'd say it doesn't count since you don't get access to eevee for the main story (ik the Nat Dex can be obtained in the main story after groudon & kyogre...but thats too late into the game)
I am so tired of tanky Ice types. They literally never work and the closest an Ice type has gotten to being slow but not garbage is Mamoswine with me struggling to call something with 80 base speed slow. Ice has far too many weaknesses to make tanky Pokemon work.
You can do Toxic stall with Lapras and Walrein as they get other decent utility and Water Ice paired with their abilities is ok, but still there are better options
Ice and fairy should be super effective against poison Fighting should be super effective against dragon Ghosts should be super effective against dark Poison should be super effective against fighting Bug and dark should be super effective against normal Just an opinion
I agree that Ice should resist Electric for logical and balance reasons. It should also resist Grass and Fairy for logical reasons (poor Grass, though...)
1. I wish we could get an early game with dragon and ice types 2. Ice is like the inverse of poison. Where poison is bad offensively but pretty good defensively, Ice has terrible defence but good offence. It would be better if the types just had Pokemon with stats built to help them. Weavile is the best ice type because it's made to be an attack unlike most ice types that are trying to be defence or have a more all around stat build.
I want a different trio of starter types. Rock, flying, fighting. Rock, fire, steel. Steel, fairy, fighting. Something different like that. There's lots of potential options.
There are Ice types that have good potential but get crippled either due to typing, stats or coverage. Like Aurorus due to its STAB combo, great abilities and essential coverage in Earth Power and Thunderbolt, but its special attack is good at best, lacks a strong one turn special Rock STAB and it’s slow. Arctozolt sort of has the same issues but has a more reliable secondary STAB, Slush Rush and no 4x weaknesses.
@@IgnitedQuils You have made me learn the crime of Aurorus not getting Power Gem. Don't get me wrong, it would still suck but it should at least get it.
@@castform7 I was shocked when seeing it didn’t. It’s why there are sets of it only running Ice and Ground coverage aside from Meteor Beam. Not that it’s bad, yet STABS + Earth Power is completely unresisted, except Levitate Bronzong.
Ice’s only value in games for me tends to be putting ice beam on a water type. I’ve only ever used one ice type in any play through and that was Alolan Ninetales
In HGSS, you can get Mamoswine before Clair with some grinding. Super strong and available for 9 gyms, the Pokémon League and Red who resides in permanent Hail. I’d say it’s worth a shot if you ever want to try another.
@@yorecf9641 You can also get a Lapras at the end of Union Cave if you have Surf, which you get after defeating the 4th gym (Morty). Its partial water type really helps against Jasmine's Steelix and Claire's Kingdra.
It's also important to remember that in Gen 1, Ice had a de facto strength against Rock because all of the Rock-type Pokemon that you had to battle were dual-type with either Ground or Flying. The Kabutops and Omastar lines were fossils that you never had to battle in the game. So Ice really had 5 offensive advantages in Gen 1. Ice was up there with Psychic types in terms of being OP offensively. I didn't even realize that Ice wasn't strong against Rock until deep into playing Pokemon Crystal.
Ice really needs a massive overhaul -First off, stop trying to make them defensive. We get it, Lorelei needed to seem tough, but that was 26 years ago. -keep snow and add a 30% boost to physical defense. Also retire hail and have the hail based abilities carry over to snow. -Remove the resistance water has to it. Make it resist water, too. Also take away steels resistance and in return, steel isn't super effective. Metal breaks ice, but cold makes metal brittle -keep frostbite and retire freeze completely Please. Ice needs to be more than just "Ice Beam for coverage" type EDIT: well Scarlet and Violet are out and the snow and stat things came true. Nice.
having sandstorm be the only damaging weather feels a bit 1-sided tbh and having 2 weathers that cause passive damage is perfectly fine, but thats just my opinion on the matter
- I still think we should keep the water resisting ice thing to make freeze dry still relevant - I agree that steel shouldn't resist ice but it should still be super effective. -however, ice should definitely resist water, alongside bug and flying, and maybe even grass to make it resist something, since without resistances it's getting nowhere. - I agree with frostbite but I'm still not convinced hail should ad physical defence, like I think special defence still makes more sens, or even special attack. I also think steel and fire types should be imuned to hail too to ease the team building, because even with buffs, being forced to run mono ice type teams is very bad. hail and sandstorm should also power up hurricane just like rain does.
@@artimist0315 most Ive types have okay to decent special defense and are more physically frail. Giving it more defense also helps it check dragons better since most dragons are physical attakers anyway. (Not that dragons need any more nerfing, rather ice was supposed to be the go-to type to stop em) I think ice can get away with being resistant to water even if we dont change ice's offensive interaction with water (keep freeze dry) Freezing is such a dumb mechanic. Virtually no moves interact with it unlike sleep, and its super inconsistent. Frostbite is a cool concept and while the ice type has bad defensive matchups, it could round out weaknesses through hail, frostbite and aurora veil. I know its a smidge random but ice resisting fairy to balance types a smidge would be amazing
@@qorv4973 sounds about right! I had the idea of ice resisting fairy before to match the "fairy in a bottle" thing, but when I looked at the pokemon it would affect, I didn't feel like it made much sens. I think ice resisting water, flying, grass, ice and bug is enough, and other types would be better candidates to become fairyproof, I mainly think of ghost, grass or bug. Bug type just needs love and since it is already strong against psychic and dark, I think it would make sens for it to resist the entire magical types. I think grass resisting fairy make sens since a fairy would never arm a plant, they are supposed to be guardians of nature of some sort and get there power through it. Ghost is here because I think that ghost types could use their manipulative side to fool innocent fairies, plus ghosts is associated with death and paranormal, something I think fairies aren't supposed to be facing. I've got a lot of different versions of a "new type chart" and it's actually crazy how many things you have to consider before doing one small change, to not deal with unforeseen astonishing consequences.
Ice resisting water would make some sense, there are places in the earth that water is completly frozen in seconds, so it's not like water will always win. Also, resistance against steel would be good too, cold environments can damage machines
Those same machines could rip through ice though. If anything Ice should atleast resist normal, bug and electric. Ice in real life is a poor conductor for electricity and is an insulator though not as good as rubber.
@@GoofyCombat steel also rips through flesh and grass so by your logic apply it to them, through flying in their too for birds getting ripped apart by jets and fan blades. Also, researchers who take ice core samples know it does “rip through.” It’s actually quite difficult
@@GoofyCombat depends on what kind of Ice you're talking about. Because if we're talking about blue ice, then even a bulldozer wouldn't be able to plow through it. And let's not forget the Titanic, an iron ship that was claimed to be unsinkable, sunk after crashing into an Iceberg.
I really wish they actually made more ice types that capitalize on Ice’s great offense potential rather than keep making defensive ice mons who can’t capitalize on it because of their lack of any real resistances. Ice could also desperately use a buff in Hail, & maybe give them 1 or 2 resistances. Maybe to common attacking types like Water or Electric perhaps?
I always hated that so many water types get ice beam, as it screws up the grass fire water trinity and just makes water the best. I think defensively, just a couple of buffs is all ice needs. Something simple like a couple resistances to water, flying, or dragon would drastically improve their survivability. Offensively, adding that snow weather effect to hail would help a lot (or rather, the opposite: all pokemon that aren't ice types get a speed drop in hail).
Yeah what makes it worse is Ice barely get water moves. You mean to tell me they can’t learn surf, liquidation, hydro pump, almost every water type can learn blizzard.
@@bulborb8756 while that’s true and not a bad thing It has less problems defensively then ice who could use water coverage and make sense thematically.
I think what would be an interesting is if they made the Ice type gain a resistance to Water type moves, but made Scald super effective against ice types. This would allow an interesting relationship where ice and water resist each other, but also have a special move made to be super effective against each other. Also, they should make ice type resist ground type attacks, so that they actually have common offensive moves to switch in on and threaten a type (that they are super effective against) with KO, instead of switching in and just dying.
They really need to introduce more ice types that can take advantage of their offense instead of trying to rely on defense that they don't have. Unfortunately it's not looking good on this front because Cetitan seems to be yet another slow defensive ice type.
I mean tbh it has gotten better lately, Arctozolt is so nasty under hail it has turned it into the no1 weather this gen. But yeah, ice needs more good mons. The Weavile line shows this pretty well, Weavile has been meta since it's introduction and Sneasel has been terrorizing the lower tiers Gen 6 and 7 despite being NFE.
I still think the best fix for Ice it to make it resist Fairy and be super-effective to it... It makes sense to nerf Fairy a little meta-wise, while the lore also makes sense as most fairies in tales hate the cold
I like the concept of Ice being a Glass Cannon, but that ain't gonna work if is resisted by so many types and is mostly slow Since most of the reliable attackers are physical, they can't use Freeze Dry so at least only 3 types resist it. The buffs PLA introduced are neat but maybe a 50% Speed is too much and may break the entire meta
yeah...if anything i think hail will revert back to how it is with damaging all non-ice types on the field (or if they have overcoat or magic guard for abilities), but i think Hail should provide some kind of passive bonus for ice similar to how sandstorm grants a passive 50% sp.def boost to rock's. Cause all hail is good for right now is triggering 3 abilities, making blizzard 100% accurate and allowing aurora veil to be used (also turns weather ball into an ice move but who cares)
@@bulborb8756 yeah. Hail should give Ice types 50% more Defence. Bc Ice is dence and hard. Like Ice/snow softening the physical blows. Thar would be really beneficial for Ixw types especially bc most Ice types have decent Sp def. It would help their defences and would be fun bc it would be like Sandstorm
I would've just carried over snow from PLA but made it lower the speed of all water type pokemon and/or stack with the idea of things like acid rain and damage other types in the process more
@@liamskarhed6068 tbh, a 50% def boost for ice types when it's hailing is kinda nice, sure against like flamethrower they would still die, but that extra padding to def would give then a small chance to tank rock slide
Think the biggest flaw with Ice types is its staple mechanic; Hail. It does deal chip damage, yet it does not buff the power of Ice type moves, same as Sandstorms for Ground types. If Hail had similar mechanics as Rain or Sun, it'll greatly bolster an Ice type's viability.
..................Maybe, but that's really only a major flaw because ice gets a lot of Pokemon that are able to abuse the effects of having hail set up. It probably still wouldn't be a major buff, though, because it still wouldn't really make up for the fact that ice is the worst type in the game defensively; most people usually sight that, as well as the fact that ice types stat distributions aren't usually geared towards offense, even though their type match ups are. There's a good reason why you usually see people talking about stuff like Galarian Darmanitan, Weavile, Cloyster with shell smash, and Ice Rider Calyrex when supported with trick room (among other things) as being the good ice types, and it's simply because under the right circumstances, they are extremely potent offensive threats
I’ve pitied the ice type so much for so long that it’s actually now become one of my more favored out of the 18. Now if only I could use an ice type in the early game, oh wait, any early game options in the entire history of the main series either have little to no variety, are dependent on RNG that you can’t work around without manipulating factors outside of the game, or are just straight up bad. I’ve dreamed of getting a region where we actually start off in a snowy area, like a small town at the top of a mountain or in a snow blanketed countryside.
Or even just a deep cave thats cool enough to have an icetype living in it. Although you would want it to get a good secondary typing, either something to reduce fragility or better yet something with good coverage. (And make it a fast and viable ice type) I also want ice to trump fairy (offensively and defensively) so reclaim its title as the dragin slayer type. (Maybe renamed myth/fantasy slayer) This is mostly just revenge on fairy taking that role from it and then being broken. (Maybe an ice/poison could be acceptable)
The terastalize mechanic in Scarlet and Violet may actually help the ice type. A pokemon with really high offenses and speed could become ice type during battle.
The Ice type may be flawed but they feature some of my favorite Pokémon like Dewgong, Lapras, Beartic, Froslass, Weavile, and Galarian Darmanitan. However note that the majority of those I listed are dual types. Plus as a move offensively Ice gives great coverage.
Galarian Darmantan is very great, especially with Fire coverage, which is something Ice types don’t get. And coverage in EQ and Choice Band like ability/useful Zen Mode.
And here we are in gen 9 with with ice buffed with hail being changed to snow and now granting physical defense boost to ice types. Granted there is no more chip damage with snow but well aurora veil is a thing.
One of ice types largess problems is the fact that most ice types are locked towards the end of the game. The first ice type I used on a team was in Pokémon Renegade platinum, where Drayano made the genius decision to add a route 216 side quest where you could get ice types before the 2nd gym instead of after the 6th. GF should seriously learn a thing or two from these rom hackers, because it’s not like people don’t want Glaceon, Froslass, and Weavile on their early game teams.
not having physical ice type STAB was only one of the things holding Kyurem-Black back though. with Heavy-Duty boots it can safely come in against entry hazards, and with it getting Dragon Dance it can attempt to patch up it's mediocre speed. Considering it's bulk it's very likely that it can
Grass and bug don’t need any more offensive nerfs and thematically giant roots and vines would shatter ice? Ice is an offensive type and needs to be buffed there, speed in hail to help all the slow defensive ice Pokémon is a much better buff than giving them 5 resistances…
How I'd buff Ice Type. 1. Give it resists to Water and Dragon. Actual defensive utility is needed. 2. Change Hail so it gives a physical defense boost of 50% to ice types like how rock types get +50% spdef in sand. 3. Change freeze to frostbite from legends arceus and make a Will o Wisp equivalent move that inflicts it relaibly.
For me I think a simple way to fix the issue with ice types is to give it more resistances for sure but ones that wouldn’t be so left field. If ice is hard as “rock”I think a simple fix would give it same resistances in flying 100% but normal wouldn’t be op either. I can see water being both resisted by both types as well! Flying is such a strong type and attacking stab for some types but there are only TWO types that resist flying out of 18! Crazy to me ice with its plethora of high defense when flying is mostly physical would work in ice types favor
Why didn't ice EVER resist dragon when it was one of the only types that was super effective man like... cmon gamefreak :/ Then you make a whole new type to do the job and make ice pokemon worse in the process
Great video, but at least ice has the benefit of being remembered by a lot for being the worst, plus having a ton of sick designs every generation. However, my bet for most mistreated type goes to poison. Poison, my favorite type, barely even used a nice anymore. Aside from technically getting no legends until Gen 7 via Ultra Beasts, it’s usually been stuck with just pretty alright moves, and most Pokémon locked to early game bugs. While there’s absolute standouts like Toxicroak and Drapion, most of the other poison types are remembered for their other types first and foremost. Look at Gengar for example, who always gets focus on the ghost half and rarely poison. Toxic being able to be TMed onto almost every Pokémon doesn’t help either. So, what I’m saying, is that I think finding out what happened with poison could make for another wonderful video.
i don't think the Ultra Beasts should be counted as legendary's as they don't really feel like they are, unlike Eternatus who is a legendary pokemon and was the 1st true legendary poison type
Poison made me sad when seeing it between Gens 2-5. Because it only hit Grass super effectively but was resisted by 4 and had 1 immune to it. The best way was to pair it with Grass, Water or Ground.
@@IgnitedQuils may as well say they only bested grass in gen 1 too (sure they also beat bug in gen 1...but bug was utterly worthless in gen 1 so it hardly counts)
Remove ice's fire weakness, restore its fire resistance and add a water immunity as a hard counter to water moves and ice would suddenly be usable as both offensive and defensive pokemon. There's no reason for Ice to be this fragile when there are other types with just as much power and utility like water, dragon and fairy. Water types also shouldn't have access to ice type moves unless they are part ice type. Water types getting access to ice just destroys the supposed grass, fire, water triangle. Hail and freeze should be reworked too. I'm not familiar with any changes in the recent games when it comes to Hail but Frostbite from Arceus is a perfect rework of Freeze.
When it comes to "worst type" these 5 comes to mind: -Bug (common weaknesses even when only 3 of them, resistances don't matter when Ground and Fighting get Rock coverage, resisted by half the types, mostly dogshit mons) -Ice (4 common weaknesses, only resist itself, mostly slow mons that make the weakness problem worse. Great offensively tho) -Rock (5 weaknesses with 4 of them being super common STAB or otherwise, 4 resistances when half of them don't matter, STAB moves that have a chance of missing, mostly slow mons also making the weakness problem worse. Great offensively, pretty similar to Ice overall, they also have the infamous Stealth Rock the type is best known for) -Grass (5 weaknesses with 3 of them being common, resisted by half the types, mostly slow mons with either none existent movepools or dual-typings that don't work for them, best set of resistances of the contenders as well as interesting support moves) -and Poison (resisted by 6 types, only super-effective against Fairy and said Grass, weak to the ever prominent Ground, decent/solid defensive typing but mostly outclassed by Steel
Ice types are probably at their best when they hit fast, and hard (Being just bulky doesn't help much when you don't resist anything) Which is probably why pokemon like Mamoswine, Weavile and Kyreum Black are considered some of the few excellent ice types in the higher tiers
That does seem to be the case: as was outlined in this video, ice really isn't good defensively, having only 1 resistance (and not even a particularly relevant one at that), while having the misfortune of having 4 weaknesses to some strong offensive types, making any defensive ice type very flawed at best. It is a pretty strong type offensively, however, the problem is that most ice types aren't too good at playing to their strengths; too often you'll see them with stat spreads that favor defense rather than offense, which unfortunately does little to help them given how bad they are on defense
@@matthewkuscienko4616 Which is probably why Mamoswine is so good, as it has a lot going for it despite being an Ice type - Sky high attack - decent bulk - pretty decent speed - A pretty strong type combination that's only resisted by very few type combinations in the game - Priority moves - electric immunity A Pokemon like this would be off if it didn't have one of these. Like Crabomidable, who has the potential stab combination that's resisted by only very few type combos in the game, but not much else.
I really like these type dissection videos. Ice is in my top five favorite types. Lapras is still peak design for me, even after over 20 years of playing Pokemon (oh god, 2000 was over 20 years ago. I just wish we got faster Ice types that were usable other than Weavile, Cryogonal is cool and all, but its middling special attack does not make up for its paper-thin defense the same way Weavile's Attack does. From a competitive perspective even in lower tiers unless I'm running hail I usually just go with Ice coverage rather than an Ice type. Side note: the use of Tantal's BGM through the video was a nice touch.
My biggest annoyance with the ice type is the stats of a lot of ice types. With the type chart, you’d assume this type would be best suited as glass cannons, with ice Pokémon having high attacks and speed. However, majority of ice types out there that don’t even break 100 speed, which is a very common speed tier in competitive. There are usable ice Pokémon below base 100, but all of them are only good because of other qualities. Also edit: I’d argue that freeze is actually one of the best statuses, or at least competitively. In a lot of situations, freeze can change the tide of battle and can essentially put a Pokémon out of commission. It’s like getting a paralysis every turn, and in theory it can be infinite. Also cryogonal and rotom frost are still affected by stealth rock
Hey! Guess what happened? Turns out when you allow Ice be the Glass Cannon, they can actually do things and not be Water Types Emergency Button for Grass or Dragon!
Ice type has also been getting a sorta hidden nerf as they continue to make fairy types more and more op. Fairy types are incredibly prevalent in competitive right now because of how strong so many of them are. This in turn makes steel more prevalent, in order to counter all the op fairies. With more and more steel, it gets harder and harder for ice types to survive the meta.
*Ways to balance ice* : +50% def boost in hail +10% chance to freeze in hail Freeze status now inflicts damage and cuts sp atk. Ice now resists water or ground and fairy (similarly as fire resists fairy, we can deduce, fairies hate extreme temperatures). New abilities: glacial power (solar power in hail, without losing hp if mon is pure ice type). Ice scales now doubles def instead of the regular x 1,5 in hail. Ice body also cures from status in hail.
Gen 9 Update -Hail now increases defense of Ice types instead of dealing chip damage. Also is called snow. -Slowking (and its galarian form) can pivot while setting snow with Chilly Reception. -4 new Ice tpyes are introduced 3 of them being ridiculously overpowered and the fourth one being the best snow abuser so far. -Ice tpyes can REMOVE thier Ice typing thanks to tera. This in practice isn't really good and besides Beartic in ZU (that was a bloodshed) is not quite a big deal. -A new reliable physical Ice move is introduced, is not the best but is at least better than Ice Punch. -Regieleki loves being an Ice type, he is Uber now.
Yes you can put ice in your water and it melts, but leave a glass of water on a glacier and it's a glass of ice in the morning. Also, favorite Ice Type is Froslass, who deserves a secondary ability besides Snow Cloak that's basically a boost in offense when Hail is on the field
You may not have a glass in the morning, glass is less dense than water and it may expand outwards and shatter the glass. Or upwards if the glass can resist it. I guess it depends on the glass.
Well in gen 9 they threw the ice type a bone with overpowered ice types like iron bundle and baxcalibur, gave physical ice types a decently strong move in the form of ice spinner, the snow weather which increases the defense of ice type pokemons by 50% and an actually bulky ice type in the form of cetitan. Unfortunately freeze is still in gen 9
Yeah, I love Ice types. They would be one of my favourites. If Gamefreak's balancing team didn't hate them... no reason for the type chart to treat them so bad. It's like they get shafted to make others like Steel and Ground and Fighting a bit better. And of course, like electric, movepool is a bit weak...
I think a few changes would help ice alot. 1. Honor its legacy as the dragon slayer and give it super effective against fairy and make it resist both fairy and dragon. 2. Have some early game ice for a change, the earliest i know is Unova with cubchu and vanilite. (Post gym 4) 3. Fix gamefreak's eternal problem of pokemon's stats, movepools, and types just not making sense. (Gen 3 sneasle was murdered by not have the physical special split) 4. Figure out its weather effects, hail should do damage and make ice moves more accurate and powerful. Basically lean into ice as a weapon not a wall. Ps: my favorite ice types are cubchu, alolan sandslash, and sneasle despite their problems. (Although Beartic was amazing in my first run of black)
In gen 1 especially Nintendo cup 1997 Ice was one of the BEST types in the game including defensively! Due to Blizzards absolutely chilling 30% freeze rate just about everything with access to it was using it, and well Ice was the only thing immune to it meaning that Lapris was often a way better wall then the likes of Chansey because all non Ice types tended to get left out in the cold. Furthermore I must add that due to all defensive stats being maxed out in gen 1 it was more common for "frailer" pokemon to effectively use rest to wall neutral attacking opponents. Besides the physical attacks like body slam you usually would always have Psychic, Ice, and Electric attacks coming your way. Ever heard of Bolt/Beam? Yeah well because of these traits many defense types could be measured by their interactions with those 3 attacking types. When looking at Ice you see it's neutral against Psychic and Electric while resisting Ice. Surprisingly enough that's actually incredibly good defensively and Ice types like Jynx could run rest to completely wall Bolt/Beam users like Starmie and Chansey (while also resisting the powerful Psychic moves which is even more rare and valuable) Jynx funny enough has arguably the BEST defensive typing in all of gen 1!
it sucks cuz ice is one of my all time fave types due to how limited and exclusive they are (even though they shouldn't be in the first place) and i really love their designs but everytime i use one on my team it's mostly a liability due to how little i can use it because it has so many weaknesses
Ice should gain resistance to dragon, flying, and ground. Plus be immune to ice! Also water should be neutral not resist ice. Plus Hail should boost ice type defense like Sand does for rocks.
Water resisting ice is just insulting. If water resists ice, fire should resist water and ice should resist fire, because it’s practically the same logic at play
I feel both ice and water should resist each other they’re practically the same element. Also resist Electric sense because ice unlike water can’t conduit easily it way to dense.
Liking, commenting and subscribing! It's good to see an entertaining and informative pokemon TH-camr who does more than low-effort clickbait and top 10s. Looks like a have a big backlog to explore!
@@myrddinterwilliger4762 Couple of points to address here. Firstly, icebergs tend to float because they are less dense than seawater. Seawater contains salt where are icebergs contain freshwater. Less dense substances float in more dense fluids. Ice also floats because of its unique crystal structure. Unlike most substances, water in its solid form is less dense than water in its liquid form. Next, icebergs do melt in water. It just takes a very long time. Ice and water have a very high specific heat capacities and specific latent heats of fusion, so it requires a lot of energy to change the temperature of either, or for either to change stage. Furthermore, icebergs tend to have very high masses, so that adds to the need for very high levels of energy to melt the iceberg. An ice cube would melt a lot more easily in the ocean because it is a lot less massive. You may have noticed that due to the effects of global warming, icebergs are melting more readily, because they are being exposed to slightly higher temperatures. In fact, your iceberg analogy lends more credence to ice resisting water. It takes a huge amount of energy for water to melt/overpower ice. It can be done, but it's not easy.
@@FootballPsychoPS3T I agree with you. My point is that the principle of thermodynamics is a principle of kinetic energy (heat) which we attribute to fire. I think ice should resist water and be super-effective against it as ice should imo represent coldness in which water would freeze. I’m happy you brought up the unique structure of ice. Wasn’t applying icebergs don’t melt in water, but meant to state that’s a kinetic principle
Tl; Dr it only resists itself and is weak to everything under the sun, especially the sun. As a kid I used logic and deliberately avoided using water, grass, dragon and bug moves against ice. Imagine my astonishment at learn that those actually hit ice for neutral damage! Throw in lack of synergy and ice moves being so good you can forego STAB, ice typing is mostly a liability if you can't hit first and hard.
Ice should have resistance of flying,bug, grass, and dragon. It also should be great if we gotten more moves that is super effective towards water types like freeze dry It's one of my favorite pokemon types with ghost as some pokemon I love like aloan Sandshrew and glaceon are part of that group.
I run an all-ice type team on sword and silver. Alolan ninetails, weavile, darmanitan, alolan sandslash, froslass, and lapras. They've done pretty well. 6-3 so far in comp battles and most of those wins were against teams with legendaries on them. Ice needs improvements, but there are some good ones in there. Darmanitan with choice scarf particularly and Lapras with gigantamax are really good.
I think type synergy would be more important in improving ice. The main types in most teams steel,ground and water have synergy with each other in dealing with stealth rocks and sand or being in them. So for example if Ice where to have a buff it would need to benefit another type so that team building isn't just ice and abilities. I think a good one would be fire and probably ghost being immune to hail. Lorewise fire type produce heat that melt hail and ghosts types like to lurk around in chilly places. gameplay reason is to help ice counter its weaknesses. Fire counters itself and steel while ghost counters fighting. fire ghost and ice also make an amazing offensive triad. Just like how ground rock and steel complete each other.
How I’d improve ice: 1. Water shouldn’t resist ice. 2. Ice should resist water. Maybe add a grass resist too? More resists could benefit all the ice tanks that we already have. 3. Hail needs to do more than just do damage to non-ice types. How about reducing non-ice speed or increasing ice’s defense (paralleling sand’s spdef increase to rock) 4. As stated *make an ice type that isn’t slow and tanky like who on the balance team looked at Glaceon and said “slow tank.”*
Based on the Pokedex, most ice types know how to handle thier fire weakensses, there needs to be a new ability for ice types that make them good against fire since they wont fix the water ice resistance
Gen 8 was maximum cope reaching critical levels when it comes to them not wanting to admit they need to ultimately change the type chart a bit to buff them. Fire isn't really tanky due to 3 key unfortunate weaknesses despite having more resists than so called "defense" types like poison, but its so nice to have all those because it gives gf alot more room to make various kinds of fire types that can actually have a chance to succeed without being hilariously busted or samey to compensate frailty
Reminder that the best Ice Type the time I made this, is at the top not because Gamefreak is trying to shove some useless Ass Defensive Ice Pokémon, but rather made a Hyper Offensive one that can take advantage of what it has available. TLDR; Make Blizzards Gamefreak, not Icebergs
I actually used Avalugg as a main for a while, always managing to be female too lmao. She’s been a massive tank and an OP monster, I miss using Avalugg.
Poor Ice Types, sadly I've never used them in the games I've played. Being available so late except for like the traded Jynx in Kanto and only resisting itself make them way too niche. They really should have given Ice type resistance to at least bug, grass and ground type. This would make sense as glaciers can cut through things with just it's sheer weight alone and in the coldest regions of the world you see you vegetation and thus no bugs that live there. Flying could also be another type they could resist because you rarely ever see any flying birds in those really cold regions again.
Three ways to buff it: 1.) Make it resistance to water, but still have water resistant to ice. Give water a move like "frost breath". 2). Turn snonw back into hail, but keep the DEF buff. 3). Have it resist ground/dragon/electric. Idk someone else brought up why, I can't remember who.
Here's what I think should change about the type chart. I think that Bug should become super-effective and resist Fairy, since it kinda makes sense with bugs maybe harming the fairies' habitats in the forest? Idk. Also, Ice should resist at least Water, and maybe even types like Grass or Ground. I am aware that Grass already kinda sucks as it is, so maybe Ground? I honestly don't know what it should resist other than Water, but I think these few simple changes would really balance things out quite a bit.
You know what would be a good new resistance for Ice that makes sense? Electric! If I recall correctly, ice is a poor conductor. It still probably wouldn't fix most of the issues, but it'd be a goid start. At the very least, it would give us a defensive pivot vs Electric other than Ground and itself.
Honestly ice sucks especially defensively since it literally only resists it’s own type! So like types it’s good against it doesn’t even resist like grass or flying so an ice type that’s a dual type like ground or water would actually be weak to the type it’s good against!
Maybe add a new weather attack called Snowstorm that works like PLA and add Frostbite to all Ice Attacks. They could keep Freeze but make it where Frostbite has a 15% Chance and Freeze has a 5%. Resisting Steel would be nice and maybe add Ice as a SE move to Steel since Ice can weaken Machines. Resisting Water would also be a nice move as well.
My comment is probably a bit similar to other comments. But, the improvements for this type are pretty clearcut, so naturally people will end up suggesting the same things. In short, ways to buff Ice-type: 1. Remove Freeze & put Frosbite from LA 2. could be immune to itself 3. A resistance to either Water or Ground type. Idk if it should resist both, as Ice could end up becoming better Grass type. & that type is already kinda weak 4. Make 'em available in early game
Slight correction, Skill Link isn't Cloyster's Hidden Ability, that would be Overcoat. However Skill Link is the hidden ability of the Aipom and Minccino lines.
Ice is my 2nd favorite type thematically, but god is it bad. Make it resist water and not weak to rock. That's all it needs to be usable. Rock and water attacks are absolutely everywhere and need to be taken down a notch anyways. Win-win for balance. Meta predictions: Freeze-dry Alolan-Ninetales would become a premiere water-counter support. Barraskewda would lose the 1v1 against offensive a9, and a9 could switch into a Tyranitar without risking a 1 shot by rockslide. With the removal of 2x stealth rock dmg, Weavile has more breathing room to switch in and out on choice-band sets, which would likely become more popular. Arctozolt might see OU presence with the rise of a9 and the lack of stealth rock harm. Boltbeak still hits like a truck. Mamoswine's poor typing would finally look up a little as it becomes a premiere rock counter and can tank water moves in UU. This would make it a decent Gyardos counter as banded sets can still win even after an intimidate. Win against Swampert and Tentacruel too.
Been saying this for years... How I would buff Ice: - resist Bug - resist Grass - resist Dark How I would buff Grass: - resist Fairy - remove it's Flying weakness (maybe) How I would buff Bug: - immune and negate secondary effects from opposing Bug moves How I would buff Flying: - make a lot of their secondary effects a chance to increase speed How I would buff Poison: - make moves that poison, give Toxic poisoning instead if used by a Poison type Pokemon How I would nerf Fairy: - weakness to Fire - not very effective on Grass
Ice would be really benefited by the Dark and Grass resistance (but Grass is already resisted by SEVEN types and Dark resist doesn't makes sense) I would say, instead Ice resists Electric and Water. Grass would be helped a lot by the Fairy resist, also by not being weak to Flying (but not being weak to it is nonsensical) Bug is inmune to Lunge's attack drop, hooray........... Flying would be really inconsistent with the random Speed buffs Poison buff looks like a really good buff, but Toxic with perfect accuracy still far more reliable so no net change. Fairy is gonna be hit so hard with that nerf, good one
@@TunaBear64 First of all, thanks for your input. And I'd love to hear more! My logic on why Ice should resist Dark is because of how Evil/Dark things are seen as cold. (Cold Shoulder, Cold Blooded, Icy Heart, Bitter Cold, some areas around the world Hell and other underworlds are described as icy.) Grass to me is unmoveable and ground, and if your logic is Birds eat vegetation, well Birds are not a type, and Flying to me, just means airborn. Yes, Grass is very resisted already, however resisting a top tier type like Fairy should help, Grass is also ironically a very good counter base attack, with tanky Water types and Rock/Ground types, in fact there's a reason why a lot of Pokemon run Grass Knot. My logic is that dominant moves like Tailwind and Max Airstream, seem to be the new "speed" centered type., I would say Electric, but now it's more to Paralyze than speed up. That maybe true, but Poison is very easy to switch into, also Toxic is 90% accuracy, and removed in Gen 9, outside of egg moves and level up, Showdown doesn't count, and moves like Poison Jab are 30% chance to poison, which is worse than Toxic's accuracy. Fairy is such a dominant Type, it resists a lot of types and their main moves are oppressive... Moonblast and Play Rough, both nerf attacks, so does priority Baby-Doll Eyes, on top of Misty Terrain acting like Safeguard, and reducing the attack of Dragon, Dazzling Galeem hits both targets, and Draining Kiss heals 75%. There's no real reason to use Poison as a Fairy counter when a lot of Fairy's learn Psychic base moves (meta ones), it needs help, the only thing people really use Poison is to get rid Toxic Spikes or negate Toxic.
6:42 WELL a notable shout out in Gen 5 HAS to go Cloyster once again. He gained the absolutely busted move Shell Smash in that gen. Planting it in OU once again with the ability to sweep teams with moves like Icicle Spear and Rock Blast.
Only a matter of time until JPR98 trashes on Ice's cousin the Rock-type Ice and Rock have more things in common than initially realized (good offenses, trash ass defenses, lots of generic slow bulky mons that capitalizes on the latter rather than the former)
I'd make Ice resist Water, Electric (as mentioned by @Cullen Hutchison), Dragon and Grass, combine Hail and Snow into one condition (which stacks with Slush Rush, no less). Ice should also always beat Water, so Freeze-Dry should instead... just get thrown out. For new Physical ice moves, I'd do one that's basically Grassy Glide for hail. Finally, for an Ice Special Attacker, I'd just do an angry ice sculpture. That'll do.
they need to scrap the freeze status and use Frostbite from PLA, it makes it Ice so much better, that halving of special attack? that is HUGE and puts on par on with Burn. make them IMMUNE to flying and then resist bug, grass and water and make them totally immune to frostbite to match the above fire type burn and finally rework the moves that have a chance to freeze to match the fire type equivalents and add an ice type will-o-wisp.
Happy Friday! Who is your favorite Ice type?
(I actually do like Cubchoo it's cute
Merp
3-way tie between Articuno, Walrein, and Avalugg. Ice is a real fun type (especially when you mono-type nuzlocke!)
Lapras definitely benefits from its Water typing but I love it as an Ice type too. In Red Blue and Yellow, a Lapras with Surf Ice Beam Thunderbolt and Psychic can single-handedly crush the Elite Four
Guys spam #buffice
Lapras.
One of my biggest grievances with Ice is how long it takes to find them in the game. Up until Sun and Moon, it was near impossible to find an Ice type until late game since Pokemon always put icy areas as late game locations. The biggest showcase of this is how terribly Glaceon was treated compared to Leafeon. One of them gets their rock in the first or second forest and the other waits till super late game. It's not even like most Ice types are good like Dragon, another rare type.
Glaceon is before the 7th gym, not post game
@@neon.845 Yeah my bad I thought Unova had a post game Ice Rock but turns out I was wrong.
if i recall, in Unova (Black 2 & White 2 cause wild eevee can be found in the main story) you couldn't get leafeon or glaceon during the main story because their rocks are in the postgame, as for other regions:
Sinnoh: not until you've gotten 6 badges
Kalos: not until you have 6 badges and surf
Alola: literally in "Victory Road"
compared to the moss rock which is available much earlier aside from in Unova and Kalos:
for Unova it's not until postgame
and for Kalos it's super late being right around the time you have to battle Wulfric
@@bulborb8756 Does ORAS count towards the argument? The ice rock is near the 7th gym while the moss rock is before the 1st one, but by the time you can find wild Eevees you'll have access to both.
@@bluekirby_64 i'd say it doesn't count since you don't get access to eevee for the main story (ik the Nat Dex can be obtained in the main story after groudon & kyogre...but thats too late into the game)
I am so tired of tanky Ice types. They literally never work and the closest an Ice type has gotten to being slow but not garbage is Mamoswine with me struggling to call something with 80 base speed slow. Ice has far too many weaknesses to make tanky Pokemon work.
You can do Toxic stall with Lapras and Walrein as they get other decent utility and Water Ice paired with their abilities is ok, but still there are better options
Lapras?
@@vaporterra Both of them will be better if they drop the ice typing
@@MaxiemumKarnage nope
@@ispeakcockney5387 How is Lapras not tanky?
I think Ice should resist Electric since ice is a good insulator. It wouldn't be too big of a buff, but anything helps and it would make sense.
Ice and fairy should be super effective against poison
Fighting should be super effective against dragon
Ghosts should be super effective against dark
Poison should be super effective against fighting
Bug and dark should be super effective against normal
Just an opinion
I just want Ice to resist Flying and Poison,thats all
@@harouin9263 no to all of that. Most of those make no logical or balanced sense.
I agree that Ice should resist Electric for logical and balance reasons. It should also resist Grass and Fairy for logical reasons (poor Grass, though...)
@@wanderlustwarrior I believe Poison,Electric,and Flying is all thats needed,Grass types are already beaten up too much
1. I wish we could get an early game with dragon and ice types
2. Ice is like the inverse of poison. Where poison is bad offensively but pretty good defensively, Ice has terrible defence but good offence. It would be better if the types just had Pokemon with stats built to help them. Weavile is the best ice type because it's made to be an attack unlike most ice types that are trying to be defence or have a more all around stat build.
Vanillite is found early game in Sword and Shield
I want a different trio of starter types. Rock, flying, fighting. Rock, fire, steel. Steel, fairy, fighting. Something different like that. There's lots of potential options.
There are Ice types that have good potential but get crippled either due to typing, stats or coverage. Like Aurorus due to its STAB combo, great abilities and essential coverage in Earth Power and Thunderbolt, but its special attack is good at best, lacks a strong one turn special Rock STAB and it’s slow.
Arctozolt sort of has the same issues but has a more reliable secondary STAB, Slush Rush and no 4x weaknesses.
@@IgnitedQuils You have made me learn the crime of Aurorus not getting Power Gem. Don't get me wrong, it would still suck but it should at least get it.
@@castform7 I was shocked when seeing it didn’t. It’s why there are sets of it only running Ice and Ground coverage aside from Meteor Beam. Not that it’s bad, yet STABS + Earth Power is completely unresisted, except Levitate Bronzong.
Ice’s only value in games for me tends to be putting ice beam on a water type. I’ve only ever used one ice type in any play through and that was Alolan Ninetales
altough a bit late, Weavile is pretty dope in platinum
Didn't use Weavile in DPPt, sad!
In HGSS, you can get Mamoswine before Clair with some grinding. Super strong and available for 9 gyms, the Pokémon League and Red who resides in permanent Hail. I’d say it’s worth a shot if you ever want to try another.
Ice pokemon is literally glass cannon, so much common weakness
@@yorecf9641 You can also get a Lapras at the end of Union Cave if you have Surf, which you get after defeating the 4th gym (Morty). Its partial water type really helps against Jasmine's Steelix and Claire's Kingdra.
It's also important to remember that in Gen 1, Ice had a de facto strength against Rock because all of the Rock-type Pokemon that you had to battle were dual-type with either Ground or Flying. The Kabutops and Omastar lines were fossils that you never had to battle in the game. So Ice really had 5 offensive advantages in Gen 1. Ice was up there with Psychic types in terms of being OP offensively. I didn't even realize that Ice wasn't strong against Rock until deep into playing Pokemon Crystal.
Ice really needs a massive overhaul
-First off, stop trying to make them defensive. We get it, Lorelei needed to seem tough, but that was 26 years ago.
-keep snow and add a 30% boost to physical defense. Also retire hail and have the hail based abilities carry over to snow.
-Remove the resistance water has to it. Make it resist water, too. Also take away steels resistance and in return, steel isn't super effective. Metal breaks ice, but cold makes metal brittle
-keep frostbite and retire freeze completely
Please. Ice needs to be more than just "Ice Beam for coverage" type
EDIT: well Scarlet and Violet are out and the snow and stat things came true. Nice.
having sandstorm be the only damaging weather feels a bit 1-sided tbh and having 2 weathers that cause passive damage is perfectly fine, but thats just my opinion on the matter
Ice freezes water...I dunno how it's resistant
- I still think we should keep the water resisting ice thing to make freeze dry still relevant
- I agree that steel shouldn't resist ice but it should still be super effective.
-however, ice should definitely resist water, alongside bug and flying, and maybe even grass to make it resist something, since without resistances it's getting nowhere.
- I agree with frostbite but I'm still not convinced hail should ad physical defence, like I think special defence still makes more sens, or even special attack. I also think steel and fire types should be imuned to hail too to ease the team building, because even with buffs, being forced to run mono ice type teams is very bad. hail and sandstorm should also power up hurricane just like rain does.
@@artimist0315 most Ive types have okay to decent special defense and are more physically frail. Giving it more defense also helps it check dragons better since most dragons are physical attakers anyway. (Not that dragons need any more nerfing, rather ice was supposed to be the go-to type to stop em)
I think ice can get away with being resistant to water even if we dont change ice's offensive interaction with water (keep freeze dry)
Freezing is such a dumb mechanic. Virtually no moves interact with it unlike sleep, and its super inconsistent. Frostbite is a cool concept and while the ice type has bad defensive matchups, it could round out weaknesses through hail, frostbite and aurora veil.
I know its a smidge random but ice resisting fairy to balance types a smidge would be amazing
@@qorv4973 sounds about right! I had the idea of ice resisting fairy before to match the "fairy in a bottle" thing, but when I looked at the pokemon it would affect, I didn't feel like it made much sens.
I think ice resisting water, flying, grass, ice and bug is enough, and other types would be better candidates to become fairyproof, I mainly think of ghost, grass or bug.
Bug type just needs love and since it is already strong against psychic and dark, I think it would make sens for it to resist the entire magical types.
I think grass resisting fairy make sens since a fairy would never arm a plant, they are supposed to be guardians of nature of some sort and get there power through it.
Ghost is here because I think that ghost types could use their manipulative side to fool innocent fairies, plus ghosts is associated with death and paranormal, something I think fairies aren't supposed to be facing.
I've got a lot of different versions of a "new type chart" and it's actually crazy how many things you have to consider before doing one small change, to not deal with unforeseen astonishing consequences.
Ice resisting water would make some sense, there are places in the earth that water is completly frozen in seconds, so it's not like water will always win.
Also, resistance against steel would be good too, cold environments can damage machines
Interesting. Could be a similar situation where Ghost is strong and weak against Ghost but in this case Ice would be weak but strong against Steel.
Those same machines could rip through ice though. If anything Ice should atleast resist normal, bug and electric. Ice in real life is a poor conductor for electricity and is an insulator though not as good as rubber.
@@GoofyCombat steel also rips through flesh and grass so by your logic apply it to them, through flying in their too for birds getting ripped apart by jets and fan blades. Also, researchers who take ice core samples know it does “rip through.” It’s actually quite difficult
@@GoofyCombat depends on what kind of Ice you're talking about. Because if we're talking about blue ice, then even a bulldozer wouldn't be able to plow through it. And let's not forget the Titanic, an iron ship that was claimed to be unsinkable, sunk after crashing into an Iceberg.
yup, extreme cold makes metals brittle and easy to snap with reduced effort and blunt force.
I really wish they actually made more ice types that capitalize on Ice’s great offense potential rather than keep making defensive ice mons who can’t capitalize on it because of their lack of any real resistances.
Ice could also desperately use a buff in Hail, & maybe give them 1 or 2 resistances. Maybe to common attacking types like Water or Electric perhaps?
I always hated that so many water types get ice beam, as it screws up the grass fire water trinity and just makes water the best.
I think defensively, just a couple of buffs is all ice needs. Something simple like a couple resistances to water, flying, or dragon would drastically improve their survivability.
Offensively, adding that snow weather effect to hail would help a lot (or rather, the opposite: all pokemon that aren't ice types get a speed drop in hail).
Yeah what makes it worse is Ice barely get water moves. You mean to tell me they can’t learn surf, liquidation, hydro pump, almost every water type can learn blizzard.
thing is water getting ice moves is always for the sake of giving them coverage against grass and dragon which are 2 types they struggle against
@@bulborb8756 while that’s true and not a bad thing It has less problems defensively then ice who could use water coverage and make sense thematically.
@@andrewharris1344 i get your logic there as ice could use help getting water moves to deal with fire and rock
Just give ice types a ice version of stealth rocks they are immune to
EZ
I think what would be an interesting is if they made the Ice type gain a resistance to Water type moves, but made Scald super effective against ice types. This would allow an interesting relationship where ice and water resist each other, but also have a special move made to be super effective against each other.
Also, they should make ice type resist ground type attacks, so that they actually have common offensive moves to switch in on and threaten a type (that they are super effective against) with KO, instead of switching in and just dying.
Do you _really_ want to buff Scald?
The Ground resistance is a great idea though.
They really need to introduce more ice types that can take advantage of their offense instead of trying to rely on defense that they don't have. Unfortunately it's not looking good on this front because Cetitan seems to be yet another slow defensive ice type.
at least with thick fat it can get rid of its fire weakness, but likely still have to deal with steel, rock and fighting problems
And Ice is one of the rarest types in the game.
@@IgnitedQuils that it is, out of all 18 types, ice makes up the smallest portion of the current total at 5.67% as of the time of writing this
I mean tbh it has gotten better lately, Arctozolt is so nasty under hail it has turned it into the no1 weather this gen. But yeah, ice needs more good mons. The Weavile line shows this pretty well, Weavile has been meta since it's introduction and Sneasel has been terrorizing the lower tiers Gen 6 and 7 despite being NFE.
Cetitan with 73 speed slush rush: You were saying
I still think the best fix for Ice it to make it resist Fairy and be super-effective to it...
It makes sense to nerf Fairy a little meta-wise, while the lore also makes sense as most fairies in tales hate the cold
I like the concept of Ice being a Glass Cannon, but that ain't gonna work if is resisted by so many types and is mostly slow
Since most of the reliable attackers are physical, they can't use Freeze Dry so at least only 3 types resist it.
The buffs PLA introduced are neat but maybe a 50% Speed is too much and may break the entire meta
yeah...if anything i think hail will revert back to how it is with damaging all non-ice types on the field (or if they have overcoat or magic guard for abilities), but i think Hail should provide some kind of passive bonus for ice similar to how sandstorm grants a passive 50% sp.def boost to rock's. Cause all hail is good for right now is triggering 3 abilities, making blizzard 100% accurate and allowing aurora veil to be used (also turns weather ball into an ice move but who cares)
@@bulborb8756 yeah. Hail should give Ice types 50% more Defence. Bc Ice is dence and hard. Like Ice/snow softening the physical blows. Thar would be really beneficial for Ixw types especially bc most Ice types have decent Sp def.
It would help their defences and would be fun bc it would be like Sandstorm
I would've just carried over snow from PLA but made it lower the speed of all water type pokemon and/or stack with the idea of things like acid rain and damage other types in the process more
@@liamskarhed6068 tbh, a 50% def boost for ice types when it's hailing is kinda nice, sure against like flamethrower they would still die, but that extra padding to def would give then a small chance to tank rock slide
@@liamskarhed6068 Ice is actually not dense at all, that's why it floats on water, but I get what you mean
Think the biggest flaw with Ice types is its staple mechanic; Hail. It does deal chip damage, yet it does not buff the power of Ice type moves, same as Sandstorms for Ground types. If Hail had similar mechanics as Rain or Sun, it'll greatly bolster an Ice type's viability.
..................Maybe, but that's really only a major flaw because ice gets a lot of Pokemon that are able to abuse the effects of having hail set up. It probably still wouldn't be a major buff, though, because it still wouldn't really make up for the fact that ice is the worst type in the game defensively; most people usually sight that, as well as the fact that ice types stat distributions aren't usually geared towards offense, even though their type match ups are. There's a good reason why you usually see people talking about stuff like Galarian Darmanitan, Weavile, Cloyster with shell smash, and Ice Rider Calyrex when supported with trick room (among other things) as being the good ice types, and it's simply because under the right circumstances, they are extremely potent offensive threats
Making ice resist water and/or ground and maybe a 1.5x defense buff in hail definitely could make the type a bit more viable
I would've said make it resist dragon, ground, flying myself or yknow just given them ice type stealth rocks
I’ve pitied the ice type so much for so long that it’s actually now become one of my more favored out of the 18. Now if only I could use an ice type in the early game, oh wait, any early game options in the entire history of the main series either have little to no variety, are dependent on RNG that you can’t work around without manipulating factors outside of the game, or are just straight up bad. I’ve dreamed of getting a region where we actually start off in a snowy area, like a small town at the top of a mountain or in a snow blanketed countryside.
Or even just a deep cave thats cool enough to have an icetype living in it.
Although you would want it to get a good secondary typing, either something to reduce fragility or better yet something with good coverage. (And make it a fast and viable ice type)
I also want ice to trump fairy (offensively and defensively) so reclaim its title as the dragin slayer type. (Maybe renamed myth/fantasy slayer) This is mostly just revenge on fairy taking that role from it and then being broken. (Maybe an ice/poison could be acceptable)
I pray to god they don’t shy away from adjusting type matchups, ice is so hilariously one sided compared to the other 17
The terastalize mechanic in Scarlet and Violet may actually help the ice type. A pokemon with really high offenses and speed could become ice type during battle.
The Ice type may be flawed but they feature some of my favorite Pokémon like Dewgong, Lapras, Beartic, Froslass, Weavile, and Galarian Darmanitan. However note that the majority of those I listed are dual types. Plus as a move offensively Ice gives great coverage.
Hey it features my favorite Pokémon too!
@@ethantreadway9478 Same
Galarian Darmantan is very great, especially with Fire coverage, which is something Ice types don’t get. And coverage in EQ and Choice Band like ability/useful Zen Mode.
G DARMANITAN GANG RISE UP!
Its also my fav mon of all time
Gorilla tactics choice band is basically HUGE POWER but only 1 move
And here we are in gen 9 with with ice buffed with hail being changed to snow and now granting physical defense boost to ice types. Granted there is no more chip damage with snow but well aurora veil is a thing.
Ice breaks almost as easily as a twitter user
LOL
😂
Oh freezer burn lol
Hey I've heard that one before, and it definitely wasn't from you.
Key word, almost. Ice is slightly stronger
One of ice types largess problems is the fact that most ice types are locked towards the end of the game. The first ice type I used on a team was in Pokémon Renegade platinum, where Drayano made the genius decision to add a route 216 side quest where you could get ice types before the 2nd gym instead of after the 6th. GF should seriously learn a thing or two from these rom hackers, because it’s not like people don’t want Glaceon, Froslass, and Weavile on their early game teams.
not having physical ice type STAB was only one of the things holding Kyurem-Black back though. with Heavy-Duty boots it can safely come in against entry hazards, and with it getting Dragon Dance it can attempt to patch up it's mediocre speed. Considering it's bulk it's very likely that it can
I think ice could logically resist grass, bug, flying, fairy, and maybe even electric. It needs a serious defensive buff
Grass and bug don’t need any more offensive nerfs and thematically giant roots and vines would shatter ice? Ice is an offensive type and needs to be buffed there, speed in hail to help all the slow defensive ice Pokémon is a much better buff than giving them 5 resistances…
How I'd buff Ice Type.
1. Give it resists to Water and Dragon. Actual defensive utility is needed.
2. Change Hail so it gives a physical defense boost of 50% to ice types like how rock types get +50% spdef in sand.
3. Change freeze to frostbite from legends arceus and make a Will o Wisp equivalent move that inflicts it relaibly.
For me I think a simple way to fix the issue with ice types is to give it more resistances for sure but ones that wouldn’t be so left field. If ice is hard as “rock”I think a simple fix would give it same resistances in flying 100% but normal wouldn’t be op either. I can see water being both resisted by both types as well! Flying is such a strong type and attacking stab for some types but there are only TWO types that resist flying out of 18! Crazy to me ice with its plethora of high defense when flying is mostly physical would work in ice types favor
And yet Ice Beam is still one of the best moves in the game.
Shame everyone and their grandmother can use it, so you have no real reason to grab an ice type
@@clintriggen3554 This is true.
Why didn't ice EVER resist dragon when it was one of the only types that was super effective man like... cmon gamefreak :/
Then you make a whole new type to do the job and make ice pokemon worse in the process
Great video, but at least ice has the benefit of being remembered by a lot for being the worst, plus having a ton of sick designs every generation. However, my bet for most mistreated type goes to poison.
Poison, my favorite type, barely even used a nice anymore. Aside from technically getting no legends until Gen 7 via Ultra Beasts, it’s usually been stuck with just pretty alright moves, and most Pokémon locked to early game bugs. While there’s absolute standouts like Toxicroak and Drapion, most of the other poison types are remembered for their other types first and foremost. Look at Gengar for example, who always gets focus on the ghost half and rarely poison. Toxic being able to be TMed onto almost every Pokémon doesn’t help either.
So, what I’m saying, is that I think finding out what happened with poison could make for another wonderful video.
i don't think the Ultra Beasts should be counted as legendary's as they don't really feel like they are, unlike Eternatus who is a legendary pokemon and was the 1st true legendary poison type
Poison made me sad when seeing it between Gens 2-5. Because it only hit Grass super effectively but was resisted by 4 and had 1 immune to it. The best way was to pair it with Grass, Water or Ground.
@@IgnitedQuils may as well say they only bested grass in gen 1 too (sure they also beat bug in gen 1...but bug was utterly worthless in gen 1 so it hardly counts)
Remove ice's fire weakness, restore its fire resistance and add a water immunity as a hard counter to water moves and ice would suddenly be usable as both offensive and defensive pokemon.
There's no reason for Ice to be this fragile when there are other types with just as much power and utility like water, dragon and fairy. Water types also shouldn't have access to ice type moves unless they are part ice type. Water types getting access to ice just destroys the supposed grass, fire, water triangle.
Hail and freeze should be reworked too. I'm not familiar with any changes in the recent games when it comes to Hail but Frostbite from Arceus is a perfect rework of Freeze.
When it comes to "worst type" these 5 comes to mind:
-Bug (common weaknesses even when only 3 of them, resistances don't matter when Ground and Fighting get Rock coverage, resisted by half the types, mostly dogshit mons)
-Ice (4 common weaknesses, only resist itself, mostly slow mons that make the weakness problem worse. Great offensively tho)
-Rock (5 weaknesses with 4 of them being super common STAB or otherwise, 4 resistances when half of them don't matter, STAB moves that have a chance of missing, mostly slow mons also making the weakness problem worse. Great offensively, pretty similar to Ice overall, they also have the infamous Stealth Rock the type is best known for)
-Grass (5 weaknesses with 3 of them being common, resisted by half the types, mostly slow mons with either none existent movepools or dual-typings that don't work for them, best set of resistances of the contenders as well as interesting support moves)
-and Poison (resisted by 6 types, only super-effective against Fairy and said Grass, weak to the ever prominent Ground, decent/solid defensive typing but mostly outclassed by Steel
Respect for using Tantal (day) in an ice type video as background music. Very nice touch
Ice types are probably at their best when they hit fast, and hard (Being just bulky doesn't help much when you don't resist anything)
Which is probably why pokemon like Mamoswine, Weavile and Kyreum Black are considered some of the few excellent ice types in the higher tiers
That does seem to be the case: as was outlined in this video, ice really isn't good defensively, having only 1 resistance (and not even a particularly relevant one at that), while having the misfortune of having 4 weaknesses to some strong offensive types, making any defensive ice type very flawed at best. It is a pretty strong type offensively, however, the problem is that most ice types aren't too good at playing to their strengths; too often you'll see them with stat spreads that favor defense rather than offense, which unfortunately does little to help them given how bad they are on defense
@@matthewkuscienko4616 Which is probably why Mamoswine is so good, as it has a lot going for it despite being an Ice type
- Sky high attack
- decent bulk
- pretty decent speed
- A pretty strong type combination that's only resisted by very few type combinations in the game
- Priority moves
- electric immunity
A Pokemon like this would be off if it didn't have one of these. Like Crabomidable, who has the potential stab combination that's resisted by only very few type combos in the game, but not much else.
@@sketchydude8431 Its also not allergic to stealth rocks
I really like these type dissection videos.
Ice is in my top five favorite types. Lapras is still peak design for me, even after over 20 years of playing Pokemon (oh god, 2000 was over 20 years ago. I just wish we got faster Ice types that were usable other than Weavile, Cryogonal is cool and all, but its middling special attack does not make up for its paper-thin defense the same way Weavile's Attack does. From a competitive perspective even in lower tiers unless I'm running hail I usually just go with Ice coverage rather than an Ice type.
Side note: the use of Tantal's BGM through the video was a nice touch.
Ice may be weak, but it’s still my favorite type tied with fairy.
Makes it weird that I don’t like Alolan Ninetales much.
My biggest annoyance with the ice type is the stats of a lot of ice types. With the type chart, you’d assume this type would be best suited as glass cannons, with ice Pokémon having high attacks and speed. However, majority of ice types out there that don’t even break 100 speed, which is a very common speed tier in competitive. There are usable ice Pokémon below base 100, but all of them are only good because of other qualities.
Also edit: I’d argue that freeze is actually one of the best statuses, or at least competitively. In a lot of situations, freeze can change the tide of battle and can essentially put a Pokémon out of commission. It’s like getting a paralysis every turn, and in theory it can be infinite. Also cryogonal and rotom frost are still affected by stealth rock
Hey! Guess what happened? Turns out when you allow Ice be the Glass Cannon, they can actually do things and not be Water Types Emergency Button for Grass or Dragon!
Regice actually used to be very good in gen 3 singles, although it's use has decreased (on gen 3)
Fun fact: Ice types didn’t become immune to Sheer Cold until Gen 7. You could say that the decision-making process was moving at a…glacial pace.
HAH!
Ice-ee what you did there 😉
@@hozkahilgarri3936 youre going to hail for that ice pun
Delibird upon hearing your comment about him;
"Oh... just you wait, the FUTURE is looking bright..."
Ice type has also been getting a sorta hidden nerf as they continue to make fairy types more and more op. Fairy types are incredibly prevalent in competitive right now because of how strong so many of them are. This in turn makes steel more prevalent, in order to counter all the op fairies. With more and more steel, it gets harder and harder for ice types to survive the meta.
Imo adding the fairy type was the worst idea GF has had since 90% of the gen 5 pokemon designs.
*Ways to balance ice* :
+50% def boost in hail
+10% chance to freeze in hail
Freeze status now inflicts damage and cuts sp atk.
Ice now resists water or ground and fairy (similarly as fire resists fairy, we can deduce, fairies hate extreme temperatures).
New abilities: glacial power (solar power in hail, without losing hp if mon is pure ice type). Ice scales now doubles def instead of the regular x 1,5 in hail. Ice body also cures from status in hail.
And give them a healing move like “Refreeze” idk
@@myrddinterwilliger4762 yeah, i would name it permafrost (2x healing in hail)
This type needs to be fixed, mostly with the defense and please keep frostbite for a condition
rock types get a 50% spdef boost in sand, and skill link isn't cloyster's hidden ability, overcoat is. other than that, good job on the research.
Gen 9 Update
-Hail now increases defense of Ice types instead of dealing chip damage. Also is called snow.
-Slowking (and its galarian form) can pivot while setting snow with Chilly Reception.
-4 new Ice tpyes are introduced 3 of them being ridiculously overpowered and the fourth one being the best snow abuser so far.
-Ice tpyes can REMOVE thier Ice typing thanks to tera. This in practice isn't really good and besides Beartic in ZU (that was a bloodshed) is not quite a big deal.
-A new reliable physical Ice move is introduced, is not the best but is at least better than Ice Punch.
-Regieleki loves being an Ice type, he is Uber now.
Yes you can put ice in your water and it melts, but leave a glass of water on a glacier and it's a glass of ice in the morning. Also, favorite Ice Type is Froslass, who deserves a secondary ability besides Snow Cloak that's basically a boost in offense when Hail is on the field
You may not have a glass in the morning, glass is less dense than water and it may expand outwards and shatter the glass. Or upwards if the glass can resist it. I guess it depends on the glass.
Well in gen 9 they threw the ice type a bone with overpowered ice types like iron bundle and baxcalibur, gave physical ice types a decently strong move in the form of ice spinner, the snow weather which increases the defense of ice type pokemons by 50% and an actually bulky ice type in the form of cetitan. Unfortunately freeze is still in gen 9
Yeah, I love Ice types. They would be one of my favourites. If Gamefreak's balancing team didn't hate them... no reason for the type chart to treat them so bad. It's like they get shafted to make others like Steel and Ground and Fighting a bit better. And of course, like electric, movepool is a bit weak...
Two things I appreciate:
Type related content.
Puns!
Keep up the great work.
I think a few changes would help ice alot.
1. Honor its legacy as the dragon slayer and give it super effective against fairy and make it resist both fairy and dragon.
2. Have some early game ice for a change, the earliest i know is Unova with cubchu and vanilite. (Post gym 4)
3. Fix gamefreak's eternal problem of pokemon's stats, movepools, and types just not making sense. (Gen 3 sneasle was murdered by not have the physical special split)
4. Figure out its weather effects, hail should do damage and make ice moves more accurate and powerful.
Basically lean into ice as a weapon not a wall.
Ps: my favorite ice types are cubchu, alolan sandslash, and sneasle despite their problems. (Although Beartic was amazing in my first run of black)
Gamefreak kept hearing that we needed more Pokémon like Weavile so they just outclassed Weavile with Chien Pao
In gen 1 especially Nintendo cup 1997 Ice was one of the BEST types in the game including defensively! Due to Blizzards absolutely chilling 30% freeze rate just about everything with access to it was using it, and well Ice was the only thing immune to it meaning that Lapris was often a way better wall then the likes of Chansey because all non Ice types tended to get left out in the cold. Furthermore I must add that due to all defensive stats being maxed out in gen 1 it was more common for "frailer" pokemon to effectively use rest to wall neutral attacking opponents. Besides the physical attacks like body slam you usually would always have Psychic, Ice, and Electric attacks coming your way. Ever heard of Bolt/Beam? Yeah well because of these traits many defense types could be measured by their interactions with those 3 attacking types. When looking at Ice you see it's neutral against Psychic and Electric while resisting Ice. Surprisingly enough that's actually incredibly good defensively and Ice types like Jynx could run rest to completely wall Bolt/Beam users like Starmie and Chansey (while also resisting the powerful Psychic moves which is even more rare and valuable) Jynx funny enough has arguably the BEST defensive typing in all of gen 1!
Gen 1 is wack.
it sucks cuz ice is one of my all time fave types due to how limited and exclusive they are (even though they shouldn't be in the first place) and i really love their designs but everytime i use one on my team it's mostly a liability due to how little i can use it because it has so many weaknesses
"Ice is nice" - Knack from Knack (2013)
As bad as they may be, Ice is one of my favorite types to use in a playthrough
Ice should gain resistance to dragon, flying, and ground. Plus be immune to ice! Also water should be neutral not resist ice. Plus Hail should boost ice type defense like Sand does for rocks.
Water resisting ice is just insulting. If water resists ice, fire should resist water and ice should resist fire, because it’s practically the same logic at play
@@emblemblade9245 Ice should also resist Water due to being frozen water itself.
I feel both ice and water should resist each other they’re practically the same element. Also resist Electric sense because ice unlike water can’t conduit easily it way to dense.
Andrew Harris Ice freezes water, that’s something we learn as kids and Pokemon is a kids franchise, why can’t we just do the thing that makes sense?
Immune to dragon and resist water and electric, imo
Tantal BGM suits a video talking about... Ice.
Liking, commenting and subscribing! It's good to see an entertaining and informative pokemon TH-camr who does more than low-effort clickbait and top 10s. Looks like a have a big backlog to explore!
It's pretty insane considering how strong Ice is in the real world.
Forgot to mention that in gen 1 if you got frozen you were basically fucked cause you would never thaw out.
9:15 And then in Gen 9 Game Freak finally gives us a good, fast special-attacking Ice-type and its immediately banned to Ubers.
And the fast physical ice type is soon to be on it's way too
If you pour a cup of water in antarctica, it’s just gonna turn into ice.
It should be a 2-way resist like bug and fighting.
Ice surrounded by water melts.
Water surrounded by ice freezes.
I think there is a case for both types to resist each other.
I’m so sick of hearing this. Just dumb. Icebergs.. there you’re wrong. Ice surrounded by water FLOATS
@@myrddinterwilliger4762 Couple of points to address here. Firstly, icebergs tend to float because they are less dense than seawater. Seawater contains salt where are icebergs contain freshwater. Less dense substances float in more dense fluids. Ice also floats because of its unique crystal structure. Unlike most substances, water in its solid form is less dense than water in its liquid form.
Next, icebergs do melt in water. It just takes a very long time. Ice and water have a very high specific heat capacities and specific latent heats of fusion, so it requires a lot of energy to change the temperature of either, or for either to change stage. Furthermore, icebergs tend to have very high masses, so that adds to the need for very high levels of energy to melt the iceberg. An ice cube would melt a lot more easily in the ocean because it is a lot less massive.
You may have noticed that due to the effects of global warming, icebergs are melting more readily, because they are being exposed to slightly higher temperatures.
In fact, your iceberg analogy lends more credence to ice resisting water. It takes a huge amount of energy for water to melt/overpower ice. It can be done, but it's not easy.
@@FootballPsychoPS3T I agree with you. My point is that the principle of thermodynamics is a principle of kinetic energy (heat) which we attribute to fire. I think ice should resist water and be super-effective against it as ice should imo represent coldness in which water would freeze. I’m happy you brought up the unique structure of ice. Wasn’t applying icebergs don’t melt in water, but meant to state that’s a kinetic principle
If they ever add a new type, Ice needs to resist it, and it must be weak to ice. I'd like it to be more balanced.
Tl; Dr it only resists itself and is weak to everything under the sun, especially the sun. As a kid I used logic and deliberately avoided using water, grass, dragon and bug moves against ice. Imagine my astonishment at learn that those actually hit ice for neutral damage!
Throw in lack of synergy and ice moves being so good you can forego STAB, ice typing is mostly a liability if you can't hit first and hard.
Tantal theme in Ice Type video? LET'S GOOOOOOOOO!
Ice should have resistance of flying,bug, grass, and dragon. It also should be great if we gotten more moves that is super effective towards water types like freeze dry
It's one of my favorite pokemon types with ghost as some pokemon I love like aloan Sandshrew and glaceon are part of that group.
Gen 9 utilized most of these solutions in Iron Bundle, snow, and ice spinner.
I have been saying this for a while and Wolfe Glicke mentioned it somewhat recently, but Ice definitely should resist water.
Seel and Dewgong remain one of the most neglected Gen 1 pokes. They deserve love!
I will say, Froslass is kind of a beast. She can be a really strong trick lead with destiny bond and cursed body
I run an all-ice type team on sword and silver. Alolan ninetails, weavile, darmanitan, alolan sandslash, froslass, and lapras. They've done pretty well. 6-3 so far in comp battles and most of those wins were against teams with legendaries on them. Ice needs improvements, but there are some good ones in there. Darmanitan with choice scarf particularly and Lapras with gigantamax are really good.
I think type synergy would be more important in improving ice. The main types in most teams steel,ground and water have synergy with each other in dealing with stealth rocks and sand or being in them. So for example if Ice where to have a buff it would need to benefit another type so that team building isn't just ice and abilities. I think a good one would be fire and probably ghost being immune to hail. Lorewise fire type produce heat that melt hail and ghosts types like to lurk around in chilly places. gameplay reason is to help ice counter its weaknesses. Fire counters itself and steel while ghost counters fighting. fire ghost and ice also make an amazing offensive triad. Just like how ground rock and steel complete each other.
How I’d improve ice:
1. Water shouldn’t resist ice.
2. Ice should resist water. Maybe add a grass resist too? More resists could benefit all the ice tanks that we already have.
3. Hail needs to do more than just do damage to non-ice types. How about reducing non-ice speed or increasing ice’s defense (paralleling sand’s spdef increase to rock)
4. As stated *make an ice type that isn’t slow and tanky like who on the balance team looked at Glaceon and said “slow tank.”*
Based on the Pokedex, most ice types know how to handle thier fire weakensses, there needs to be a new ability for ice types that make them good against fire since they wont fix the water ice resistance
Defensively ice types are bad but offensively they're really good!
Ice type Pokemon? Not good.
Ice type moves? Very good.
Gen 8 was maximum cope reaching critical levels when it comes to them not wanting to admit they need to ultimately change the type chart a bit to buff them. Fire isn't really tanky due to 3 key unfortunate weaknesses despite having more resists than so called "defense" types like poison, but its so nice to have all those because it gives gf alot more room to make various kinds of fire types that can actually have a chance to succeed without being hilariously busted or samey to compensate frailty
Reminder that the best Ice Type the time I made this, is at the top not because Gamefreak is trying to shove some useless Ass Defensive Ice Pokémon, but rather made a Hyper Offensive one that can take advantage of what it has available.
TLDR; Make Blizzards Gamefreak, not Icebergs
I actually used Avalugg as a main for a while, always managing to be female too lmao. She’s been a massive tank and an OP monster, I miss using Avalugg.
Poor Ice Types, sadly I've never used them in the games I've played. Being available so late except for like the traded Jynx in Kanto and only resisting itself make them way too niche.
They really should have given Ice type resistance to at least bug, grass and ground type. This would make sense as glaciers can cut through things with just it's sheer weight alone and in the coldest regions of the world you see you vegetation and thus no bugs that live there. Flying could also be another type they could resist because you rarely ever see any flying birds in those really cold regions again.
That said, I am using the trade Jynx in my replay of LeafGreen and I want to have an Alolan Sandslash on my team when I get to UltraMoon.
Do you _really_ want to nerf Grass and Bug even further?
I'm all in for making Ice resist Flying though.
Three ways to buff it:
1.) Make it resistance to water, but still have water resistant to ice. Give water a move like "frost breath".
2). Turn snonw back into hail, but keep the DEF buff.
3). Have it resist ground/dragon/electric. Idk someone else brought up why, I can't remember who.
Here's what I think should change about the type chart. I think that Bug should become super-effective and resist Fairy, since it kinda makes sense with bugs maybe harming the fairies' habitats in the forest? Idk. Also, Ice should resist at least Water, and maybe even types like Grass or Ground. I am aware that Grass already kinda sucks as it is, so maybe Ground? I honestly don't know what it should resist other than Water, but I think these few simple changes would really balance things out quite a bit.
You know what would be a good new resistance for Ice that makes sense? Electric! If I recall correctly, ice is a poor conductor. It still probably wouldn't fix most of the issues, but it'd be a goid start. At the very least, it would give us a defensive pivot vs Electric other than Ground and itself.
Honestly ice sucks especially defensively since it literally only resists it’s own type! So like types it’s good against it doesn’t even resist like grass or flying so an ice type that’s a dual type like ground or water would actually be weak to the type it’s good against!
Maybe add a new weather attack called Snowstorm that works like PLA and add Frostbite to all Ice Attacks. They could keep Freeze but make it where Frostbite has a 15% Chance and Freeze has a 5%. Resisting Steel would be nice and maybe add Ice as a SE move to Steel since Ice can weaken Machines. Resisting Water would also be a nice move as well.
My comment is probably a bit similar to other comments. But, the improvements for this type are pretty clearcut, so naturally people will end up suggesting the same things.
In short, ways to buff Ice-type:
1. Remove Freeze & put Frosbite from LA
2. could be immune to itself
3. A resistance to either Water or Ground type. Idk if it should resist both, as Ice could end up becoming better Grass type. & that type is already kinda weak
4. Make 'em available in early game
Slight correction, Skill Link isn't Cloyster's Hidden Ability, that would be Overcoat. However Skill Link is the hidden ability of the Aipom and Minccino lines.
Ice is my 2nd favorite type thematically, but god is it bad.
Make it resist water and not weak to rock. That's all it needs to be usable. Rock and water attacks are absolutely everywhere and need to be taken down a notch anyways.
Win-win for balance.
Meta predictions:
Freeze-dry Alolan-Ninetales would become a premiere water-counter support. Barraskewda would lose the 1v1 against offensive a9, and a9 could switch into a Tyranitar without risking a 1 shot by rockslide.
With the removal of 2x stealth rock dmg, Weavile has more breathing room to switch in and out on choice-band sets, which would likely become more popular.
Arctozolt might see OU presence with the rise of a9 and the lack of stealth rock harm. Boltbeak still hits like a truck.
Mamoswine's poor typing would finally look up a little as it becomes a premiere rock counter and can tank water moves in UU. This would make it a decent Gyardos counter as banded sets can still win even after an intimidate. Win against Swampert and Tentacruel too.
Been saying this for years...
How I would buff Ice:
- resist Bug
- resist Grass
- resist Dark
How I would buff Grass:
- resist Fairy
- remove it's Flying weakness (maybe)
How I would buff Bug:
- immune and negate secondary effects from opposing Bug moves
How I would buff Flying:
- make a lot of their secondary effects a chance to increase speed
How I would buff Poison:
- make moves that poison, give Toxic poisoning instead if used by a Poison type Pokemon
How I would nerf Fairy:
- weakness to Fire
- not very effective on Grass
Ice would be really benefited by the Dark and Grass resistance (but Grass is already resisted by SEVEN types and Dark resist doesn't makes sense)
I would say, instead Ice resists Electric and Water.
Grass would be helped a lot by the Fairy resist, also by not being weak to Flying (but not being weak to it is nonsensical)
Bug is inmune to Lunge's attack drop, hooray...........
Flying would be really inconsistent with the random Speed buffs
Poison buff looks like a really good buff, but Toxic with perfect accuracy still far more reliable so no net change.
Fairy is gonna be hit so hard with that nerf, good one
@@TunaBear64 First of all, thanks for your input. And I'd love to hear more!
My logic on why Ice should resist Dark is because of how Evil/Dark things are seen as cold. (Cold Shoulder, Cold Blooded, Icy Heart, Bitter Cold, some areas around the world Hell and other underworlds are described as icy.)
Grass to me is unmoveable and ground, and if your logic is Birds eat vegetation, well Birds are not a type, and Flying to me, just means airborn. Yes, Grass is very resisted already, however resisting a top tier type like Fairy should help, Grass is also ironically a very good counter base attack, with tanky Water types and Rock/Ground types, in fact there's a reason why a lot of Pokemon run Grass Knot.
My logic is that dominant moves like Tailwind and Max Airstream, seem to be the new "speed" centered type., I would say Electric, but now it's more to Paralyze than speed up.
That maybe true, but Poison is very easy to switch into, also Toxic is 90% accuracy, and removed in Gen 9, outside of egg moves and level up, Showdown doesn't count, and moves like Poison Jab are 30% chance to poison, which is worse than Toxic's accuracy.
Fairy is such a dominant Type, it resists a lot of types and their main moves are oppressive... Moonblast and Play Rough, both nerf attacks, so does priority Baby-Doll Eyes, on top of Misty Terrain acting like Safeguard, and reducing the attack of Dragon, Dazzling Galeem hits both targets, and Draining Kiss heals 75%. There's no real reason to use Poison as a Fairy counter when a lot of Fairy's learn Psychic base moves (meta ones), it needs help, the only thing people really use Poison is to get rid Toxic Spikes or negate Toxic.
@@LuDogg805 Toxic has perfect accuracy when used by a Poison type, can even hit Pokemom that are using Dive or Fly.
6:42
WELL a notable shout out in Gen 5 HAS to go Cloyster once again. He gained the absolutely busted move Shell Smash in that gen. Planting it in OU once again with the ability to sweep teams with moves like Icicle Spear and Rock Blast.
Only a matter of time until JPR98 trashes on Ice's cousin the Rock-type
Ice and Rock have more things in common than initially realized (good offenses, trash ass defenses, lots of generic slow bulky mons that capitalizes on the latter rather than the former)
I'd make Ice resist Water, Electric (as mentioned by @Cullen Hutchison), Dragon and Grass, combine Hail and Snow into one condition (which stacks with Slush Rush, no less). Ice should also always beat Water, so Freeze-Dry should instead... just get thrown out. For new Physical ice moves, I'd do one that's basically Grassy Glide for hail. Finally, for an Ice Special Attacker, I'd just do an angry ice sculpture. That'll do.
I very much approve the use of Tantal’s music in this video. Best area in any video game imo
they need to scrap the freeze status and use Frostbite from PLA, it makes it Ice so much better, that halving of special attack? that is HUGE and puts on par on with Burn.
make them IMMUNE to flying and then resist bug, grass and water and make them totally immune to frostbite to match the above fire type burn and finally rework the moves that have a chance to freeze to match the fire type equivalents and add an ice type will-o-wisp.
here's a suggestion; ice-only ability : Slippery - gains 30% speed and evasion from water attacks
“Just the way the cookie crumbles.”
I was kind of expecting ‘just the way the ice shatters’… but okay.
Crabominable is my fave Ice type. Used it all the way towards the last champion battle, it was very tanky from what I remember
Well yeah, if you put a little bit of ice in some water it will melt, but if you put a little bit of water on some ice it will freeze.