Great.. although I'm not sure that harvest right uses robinair.. the xl freeze dryers come with navac.. I don't have the harvest right bottle so I can't read the manufacturer, but the pump is made by navac so it would make sense to have navac oil. Which I can't find a supplier for, at leas so far. I would have liked it if you had tested the harvest right one and the navac to see if they are the same as robinair. In any case these results seem to indicate that black gold would be the better choice of the 3 and maybe would be a good alternative to navac which I can't seem to get.
It would seem to me that the “Harvest Right” oil isn’t the best for the pump they provide. You should submit your findings (this video) to Harvest Right.
I'd hope that any company would be engaged in continual review and process improvement. The manufacture of the HR pump may recommend an oil for the purpose of the pump, but we, as freeze driers, break all the rules and use the pump in a way it wasn't designed for. HR does recommend Robin Air and Black Gold.
Another wonderful video 👍🏽. I’m only watching it now for the first time since I’ve thrown the towel in on my Oil Free pump that I purchased in 2020 🤦♀️ Have only run one cycle now on the original pump and appreciate the info regarding which oil to gravitate towards (as it stands, I have Robinair on hand currently, but will source out Black Gold.. hoping to find it at a better price, mind you…ridiculous here in Canada!!). I was wondering if perhaps freezing the oil might help to separate the water particles… (as in making lard 😆). What are your thoughts on that please? Thanks again!! (not the Premier pump but the 2019 model… is it worth upgrading??)
We began using the Dairyland oil because it seemed to keep the pump cleaner and I didn't have to open it up to clean the inside of it. What is recommended on pump cleaning if I switch to the Black Gold?
I would highly suggest Black Gold. It's one of the few oils that can past the ASTM D1401 test, The ability to remain separated from water. I would use a block of wood to raise the rear end of the pump up and always drain the oil while hot (warm). Also leave the valve open to allow any condensate to drain out, until your next batch.
Great video. When I did A/C we just used the oil the A/C supply houses sold. I'm looking for oil for my vacuum seal chamber vacuum pump not a freeze dryer. I'm sure (guessing) my vacuum seal chamber sealer doesn't suck in as much moisture as a freeze dryer. I will go with the Black Gold oil ISO #46. The back panel has a label that says to use #46 vacuum pump oil. The only problem I have with this video is you should have had some medium rare New York strip steaks going while filming the video. Hahahaha. Just Joking. Hahaha. Well done video.
Phil, we just changed the oil in our Premier pump but we did not do it while it was warm. After draining, we put 500 ml back in but it has only come back up to the minimum line. Should we add more?
Enjoyed the video Phil, which oil did you decide to use? I have had a terrible time with water in my vacuum pump . I did two flushes and it came out looking like milk. I would put new oil in and in an hour or so the oil would start to get cloudy. There is one jar on the bench that still hasn't separated! I continued to change oil and finally after about 4 to 6 quarts it stayed clear and the m toors came down to 500. I am using Robinaire
Interesting findings Phil. Why is this video marked as unlisted? Can not find it in the videos on your channel. That seems odd. I bought a large FD & premium pump that I will be setting up over Christmas holiday time. I am nearly convinced that before I even plug it in I might be well advised to pull it apart to verify the assembly was completed properly and to re-engineer or repair, some perceived flaws in the design. By HR standards I am a qualified service person...that is I bought one. By my own standards I am qualified for servicing because of my career and personal experience. Concerns; Heat relay failure, Epoxy/silicone sealing of chamber wire entry, Dollar store drain tube and valve. Thanks for sharing your wealth of experience/knowledge with us. Best regards!
I moved the video to unlisted to check some findings. It's back on public view. I'm sure the majority of new unit problems are from vibration from shipping
Just a quick question.. Has the oil have a life about filtering..I see a previous post about filtering since 2017... Is that oil still OK ?? I though the oil breaks down protections..
Filtering oil is a good idea since it removes small food particulates and letting oil stand allows any water to fall to the bottom allowing the top oil to be poured off. There is a point where the oil will become cloudy from moisture becoming emulsified with the oil. At that point it''s time to change the oil.
Hey, wow. This was so technically, you kind of lost me!! So which is the best? Looked like the black gold. But it has all those “extras”.. which didn’t seem to be good..
Phil I have been filtering the same Black Gold oil I purchased back in 2017. Should I be worried about the oil becoming acidic? I have used my freeze dryer about one a week since 2017... TY! Great video
Good question. Water can become acidic, but oil can't because only aqueous solutions have a PH level. If your oil is contaminated with water, then your oil would be contaminated. Most acids do not dissolve in oil, but I believe oil can carry acidic water and cause problems.
@@Philat4800feet TY, that’s good news... The toilet paper Brita contraption seems to filter very well. I do run dairyland every so often because it cleans so well.
What is disappointing to me is that even the Black Gold OIl is emulsified and has a fair amount of water in the oil after the separation as seen as an opaque non-clear color at the end showing there is still a fair amount of water in the oil, if the oil had completely separated the oil would appear as the original slightly yellow transparent color, but no it is cloudy. Showing the separation is not complete. As you stated water is really bad for you pump.
Have you do test on various pumps? Like some commercial HVAC pumps but for use in a FD. It would be interesting to see which ones work and ones that fail the long run times of FD.
I have not, but I have reviewed many manufactures specs on other models. We freeze driers are intentionally hard on vacuum pumps and use them against the recommendations or the manufacture. That's why I still change my oil after every load.
Question back to you...what would happen if you used half Penzoil and half Castral oil in your car? It would still work, but wouldn't you want to protect your investment as much as possible. I barely scratch the surface on the possible brands of oil. I'm sure there are better oils out there.
@@Philat4800feet sometimes I don't know what oil was used in my car but top up with Castrol when the level is down. I just thought if one oil is more pure but doesn't separate out water as well, wouldn't adding the other as top up be a viable option?
Have you done this test on Navac oil (the maker of the premier pump as I understand it)? Seems like since the make the pump, they'd make a good oil for it...
@@Philat4800feet Perhaps you could compare it with the Black Gold - side by side test? I'm needing some oil soon, and was hoping to compare the Navac since it would appear (based on the bottles) that it's what HR is using now (and the fact that Navac makes the pump). So... Hoping you have some spare time soon - BIG THANKS in advance!
Phil, thank you. Your information is so important and appreciated. I’m in Canada and I am finding it very difficult to find Black Gold. I have one option available presently. They are selling it for $126 CA per gallon. (The Robinair is $48 per gallon.) Is this price difference similar where you are?
I've been using the HR (Robin Air) since I recently switched over to the premium pump, but prior to that, I was using Black Gold and looks like I will continue to do so. Black Gold is a recommended HR oil.
There are a lot of oils out there that could be better than what is currently recommended. I wouldn't do anything if your unit is still under warranty. Oils with additives to separate moisture from the oil could be a game changer. In all of my experience with freeze driers, the vacuum pump has the least complaints, unless it's the oilless pump.
Great.. although I'm not sure that harvest right uses robinair.. the xl freeze dryers come with navac.. I don't have the harvest right bottle so I can't read the manufacturer, but the pump is made by navac so it would make sense to have navac oil. Which I can't find a supplier for, at leas so far.
I would have liked it if you had tested the harvest right one and the navac to see if they are the same as robinair.
In any case these results seem to indicate that black gold would be the better choice of the 3 and maybe would be a good alternative to navac which I can't seem to get.
It would seem to me that the “Harvest Right” oil isn’t the best for the pump they provide. You should submit your findings (this video) to Harvest Right.
I'd hope that any company would be engaged in continual review and process improvement. The manufacture of the HR pump may recommend an oil for the purpose of the pump, but we, as freeze driers, break all the rules and use the pump in a way it wasn't designed for. HR does recommend Robin Air and Black Gold.
Another wonderful video 👍🏽. I’m only watching it now for the first time since I’ve thrown the towel in on my Oil Free pump that I purchased in 2020 🤦♀️ Have only run one cycle now on the original pump and appreciate the info regarding which oil to gravitate towards (as it stands, I have Robinair on hand currently, but will source out Black Gold.. hoping to find it at a better price, mind you…ridiculous here in Canada!!). I was wondering if perhaps freezing the oil might help to separate the water particles… (as in making lard 😆). What are your thoughts on that please? Thanks again!! (not the Premier pump but the 2019 model… is it worth upgrading??)
Freezing oil is away to remove water from the oil. The water turns into a "hockey puck", then toss it out.
We began using the Dairyland oil because it seemed to keep the pump cleaner and I didn't have to open it up to clean the inside of it. What is recommended on pump cleaning if I switch to the Black Gold?
I would highly suggest Black Gold. It's one of the few oils that can past the ASTM D1401 test, The ability to remain separated from water. I would use a block of wood to raise the rear end of the pump up and always drain the oil while hot (warm). Also leave the valve open to allow any condensate to drain out, until your next batch.
Great video. When I did A/C we just used the oil the A/C supply houses sold. I'm looking for oil for my vacuum seal chamber vacuum pump not a freeze dryer. I'm sure (guessing) my vacuum seal chamber sealer doesn't suck in as much moisture as a freeze dryer. I will go with the Black Gold oil ISO #46. The back panel has a label that says to use #46 vacuum pump oil. The only problem I have with this video is you should have had some medium rare New York strip steaks going while filming the video. Hahahaha. Just Joking. Hahaha. Well done video.
So far, I have found Black Gold to be the best
Phil, we just changed the oil in our Premier pump but we did not do it while it was warm. After draining, we put 500 ml back in but it has only come back up to the minimum line. Should we add more?
I like the middle of the scale
Enjoyed the video Phil, which oil did you decide to use? I have had a terrible time with water in my vacuum pump . I did two flushes and it came out looking like milk. I would put new oil in and in an hour or so the oil would start to get cloudy. There is one jar on the bench that still hasn't separated! I continued to change oil and finally after about 4 to 6 quarts it stayed clear and the m toors came down to 500. I am using Robinaire
I would use Black Gold
Interesting findings Phil. Why is this video marked as unlisted? Can not find it in the videos on your channel. That seems odd.
I bought a large FD & premium pump that I will be setting up over Christmas holiday time.
I am nearly convinced that before I even plug it in I might be well advised to pull it apart to verify the assembly was completed properly and to re-engineer or repair, some perceived flaws in the design.
By HR standards I am a qualified service person...that is I bought one.
By my own standards I am qualified for servicing because of my career and personal experience.
Concerns; Heat relay failure, Epoxy/silicone sealing of chamber wire entry, Dollar store drain tube and valve.
Thanks for sharing your wealth of experience/knowledge with us. Best regards!
I moved the video to unlisted to check some findings. It's back on public view. I'm sure the majority of new unit problems are from vibration from shipping
@@Philat4800feet That's subtle humor right there... ;o)
Just a quick question.. Has the oil have a life about filtering..I see a previous post about filtering since 2017... Is that oil still OK ?? I though the oil breaks down protections..
Filtering oil is a good idea since it removes small food particulates and letting oil stand allows any water to fall to the bottom allowing the top oil to be poured off. There is a point where the oil will become cloudy from moisture becoming emulsified with the oil. At that point it''s time to change the oil.
Hey, wow. This was so technically, you kind of lost me!! So which is the best? Looked like the black gold. But it has all those “extras”.. which didn’t seem to be good..
It's the "extras" that make it good.
Thank you for clarification!!
Phil I have been filtering the same Black Gold oil I purchased back in 2017. Should I be worried about the oil becoming acidic? I have used my freeze dryer about one a week since 2017... TY! Great video
Good question. Water can become acidic, but oil can't because only aqueous solutions have a PH level. If your oil is contaminated with water, then your oil would be contaminated. Most acids do not dissolve in oil, but I believe oil can carry acidic water and cause problems.
I would use the oil until it become too cloudy or you can't get a deep vacuum
@@Philat4800feet TY, that’s good news... The toilet paper Brita contraption seems to filter very well. I do run dairyland every so often because it cleans so well.
Great job and thank you for that analysis, I wish I had all the cool toys you have.
Thanks...more to come
Thank you so much appreciate all,of your hard work…
So you recommend the Black Gold for the oil pump? If so where do you get it
Online is one source, but HVAC supply houses is another. Also try Farm stores, Cal Ranch , Tractor Supply.
What is disappointing to me is that even the Black Gold OIl is emulsified and has a fair amount of water in the oil after the separation as seen as an opaque non-clear color at the end showing there is still a fair amount of water in the oil, if the oil had completely separated the oil would appear as the original slightly yellow transparent color, but no it is cloudy. Showing the separation is not complete. As you stated water is really bad for you pump.
My search for a better oil continues..
@@Philat4800feet have you found anything better or is black gold still looking the best?
Black Gold is still the best I've found
Just got a medium freeze dryer with the premiere pump. How much spare oil should I keep on hand?
enough for a second oil change. You should have enough in the pump and enough going through the filter.
This is an excellent video Phil - thanks for doing this!
Glad you liked it
Have you do test on various pumps? Like some commercial HVAC pumps but for use in a FD. It would be interesting to see which ones work and ones that fail the long run times of FD.
I have not, but I have reviewed many manufactures specs on other models. We freeze driers are intentionally hard on vacuum pumps and use them against the recommendations or the manufacture. That's why I still change my oil after every load.
@@Philat4800feet when you change your oil - do you discard it or filter and reuse. If you reuse, do you have a maximum usage / number of loads?
@@mlydick I reuse it (filtered) until it goes cloudy.
👍👍👍👍👍
OK next test: should we use oil that has been run through the filters? should we reuse that oil?
Great idea! I will test some older oils, most likely Black Gold.
Terrific video Phil, thank you.
Very welcome
Great comparison, thank you, Phil. Question: what would happen if you used half and half? Black Gold and Robin Air? Would that work?
Question back to you...what would happen if you used half Penzoil and half Castral oil in your car? It would still work, but wouldn't you want to protect your investment as much as possible. I barely scratch the surface on the possible brands of oil. I'm sure there are better oils out there.
@@Philat4800feet sometimes I don't know what oil was used in my car but top up with Castrol when the level is down. I just thought if one oil is more pure but doesn't separate out water as well, wouldn't adding the other as top up be a viable option?
Have you done this test on Navac oil (the maker of the premier pump as I understand it)? Seems like since the make the pump, they'd make a good oil for it...
Not yet, but will
@@Philat4800feet Outstanding! Your testing and attention to detail is a game changer for so many things!
@@Philat4800feet Perhaps you could compare it with the Black Gold - side by side test? I'm needing some oil soon, and was hoping to compare the Navac since it would appear (based on the bottles) that it's what HR is using now (and the fact that Navac makes the pump). So... Hoping you have some spare time soon - BIG THANKS in advance!
Very nicely done. Thank you for your time again
Thanks
Where is the best place to buy?
Check HVAC supply centers. Some may not sell to the public. On-line is another option.
Phil, thank you. Your information is so important and appreciated.
I’m in Canada and I am finding it very difficult to find Black Gold. I have one option available presently. They are selling it for $126 CA per gallon. (The Robinair is $48 per gallon.) Is this price difference similar where you are?
Amazon Pricing 11/27/23 in gallons:
Black Gold $59.99
Robin Air $48.06
Didn't look at freight charges.
Thanks so much for all your great video
Kind words
so which do you use? the black gold?
Yup. Found it to be the best.
Thanks Phil.
Which oil do you use in your freeze dryer Phil?
I've been using the HR (Robin Air) since I recently switched over to the premium pump, but prior to that, I was using Black Gold and looks like I will continue to do so. Black Gold is a recommended HR oil.
WOW!
I hope that's a good wow.
Thank you Phil excellent!!! Question what about a synthetic oil could it work better?
There are a lot of oils out there that could be better than what is currently recommended. I wouldn't do anything if your unit is still under warranty. Oils with additives to separate moisture from the oil could be a game changer. In all of my experience with freeze driers, the vacuum pump has the least complaints, unless it's the oilless pump.
So we should buy black gold?
I prefer Black Gold. It's one of two oils recommended by Harvest Right.
Thanks