How I Got Scammed/Endorsed
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.พ. 2022
- Today I share a cautionary tale from circa 2010. I'm hoping to bring attention to what I'm calling predatory endorsements. These deals can take many forms, from the mostly benign to, as you'll hear, completely scammy.
If you're unsure of what I'm talking about, or just want a bit of entertainment at my expense, watch on!
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Glad the CC transaction was able to get cancelled. Otherwise, I was gonna be like “bro let’s go get your f’n money” 😂
🤣🤣
I remember those keller shell companies.
I was teaching at a shop in those days.
Orange County Drums and Percussion was the big one. I even had a student who bought a kit.
They were never my thing. Once we started being a DW dealer, I knew where I wanted to go.
I was fortunate to get an awesome deal because of the band I was in and because I taught at the store. 50 and two 10's off the exotic (ebony stained birdseye), and 50 and four 10's off my finishply (ultra white oyster) kit. I still have both and still actively gig, record, and tour with that finishply kit. Both kits will be twenty years old next year!
I also had a "key influence" deal with Paiste which cane with a significant discount. I've played them since I was a fourteen year old kid in 1990. Both Zildjian and Sabian offered me free cymbals, but Paiste is my love. They speak to my heart - even though I really love cymbals in general.
Great story - thanks for sharing!
This really brings me back to when i was 13-14 in 2004
Happy you made this video. Definitely is not being spoken about enough. Plenty of companies that are doing bs like this. (Especially cymbal companies from what I noticed) I can go on a whole list naming them.
I remember being told I was a hater when I told a few of those “ endorsed “ guys that they fell for a scheme ….
I was just discussing how weird this period of time was the other day with my friend who I’ve been playing music with since 2007. I heard more “drum endorsement” horror stories and terrible sounding $3500 drum kits from 2006-2011 then I probably will for the rest of my life. Thanks for sharing your story!
It definitely was a weird period for drum companies. All these boutique companies had their 'gimmick' to sell - and they were all basically the same Keller shells when you got to the heart of the drum.
I remember seeing everyone start using SJC kits and when I saw their prices I couldnt make any sense of it.
Keller decorators, the lot of 'em. ;D
Very good video bro, i just realized that i had one of this "endorsements" that you talk about, thanks for it! It's very clarifying!
I was lucky enough to have 3 endorsements back in my touring days. None of them were free. Most of the deals at that time (around 2000) were 50% off for bands at the same level. I think the only artist getting free gear are the rockstar bands. Anyway, I was able to play drums that I wanted to play. I was actually seeking this company out when my deal came about. The stick company that I ended up endorsing sought me out and I had kind of an unwritten drum head deal. The only brand that I would not play without an endorsement was the head co, so I stopped using them. With that said, my experience with a three companies were extremely positive and and the deals were pretty standard with very well established brands.
With that said, I remember every boutique Keller shell drum company and seeing promotions for endorsers. Seems like a win/win in theory. Fledgling drum companies offering discounted pricing by flattering the crap out of young artists who are dying to get their name out there and have an endorsement under their belt. It sucks to hear stories like yours. There were SO many boutique companies out there and I think Pork Pie and SJC are the only 2 that I know of that are left.
Thanks for sharing!
You made this vid a few years back, still both very awesome.
Yeah I definitely think Soultone cymbals are the worst for this at the moment. They went after me at one point. I said that I really don’t like what they are doing, by going after drummers offering “endorsements” when all it is, is a sales tactic. Most of their “Artist” prices are as cheap, if not cheaper on Amazon.
I do endorse a stick company that are fairly small but this is because the owner is a friend.I also endorse one of the larger drum head companies, that was by speaking face to face with one of the owners and not asking for support, but he offered it to me.
Why do you say that about soultone cymbals?
SJC was on a reality show called "The Profit" which was pretty much a mix of Kitchen Nightmares and Shark Tank. It was a reality show so watch it with a grain of salt, but the company seemed like it teetering on the brink as well.
Shame that Shine was so sketch. I remember they were late to the game trend-wise as OCDP, Truth, SJC, and C&C were dominating that market. But one dude who had a Shine kit that sounded incredible was Durijah Lang of Glassjaw. But he was also a seriously underrated drummer so it was probably less about the kit and more about him playing it.
I remember that. I think dysfunction was largely an angle of the show, but I'm sure they needed help regardless.
As an sjc artist, free product is not a thing for most companies in general. You will get discounted gear for sure but at the end of the day, they're still a business. They do need to make money. However, I did have a situation where I was endorsed with a different company but got dropped for no reason but I'm with SJC now and that was the best move I could've made. So, similar story to yours but I wanted to clarify how endorsements work first :)
For sure - it'd probably be worth the time to make another video detailing the regular endorsement process which, as you mentioned, often still only results in discounted gear for lower tiered artists. This, of course, varies from company to company and from artist to artist. Sounds like you've got a great relationship in your endorsement with SJC, and they've been a solid brand for many years now. The insidious endorsements are the ones that either deliberately quote a discount off of a markup to make it feel like you're getting a deal, or just having the discount be comparable to what they would run for any holiday weekend sale regardless. I think it's probably less common these days, in part because it's a lot easier for folks to spot now.
@@ColeParamore yea. I definitely think it should’ve been mentioned in this video. Because one could take away that SJC is kinda in the same boat as shine. Idk, it might be me being protective of a brand that truly looks out for their artists. So, a little bias from me haha. Still a good awareness video but yea just wanna make sure there’s a balance, you know.
@@DanielPottsDrums SJC definitely ran in the same crowd aesthetically as a lot of those other companies at the time but I definitely wouldn't impugn them - I've never heard anything negative from their artists or their A&R practices. It definitely says something that out of all those Keller custom companies that started back then SJC is the only one still around, and good for them!
@@ColeParamore SJC hit me up in 2013 offering an "endorsement" and it was the same crap, just a sales tactic. I emailed back spec'ing out for a pretty straightforward 4 piece kit and they were like "we'll give you the AMAZING artist pricing of 35% off, which comes out to $3k for 22/12/14/16"
I was basically nobody at the time (still am just slightly less so lmao). I had like 6 drum covers on TH-cam that were well-produced but nothing super special and my band was doing some light touring but was not signed and was only pulling a few thousand plays per song on each platform.
@@davidcubine6064 Thanks for sharing. Definitely sounds like the familiar story - bummer to hear SJC was on it in some capacity as well.
I had a similar experience with soul tone and then brought it up to a friend who is actually endorsed and he’s like yeah you haven’t made it they’re just trying to hit a quota and I was like damn bro you right 😢😅
Another factor in endorsements (for touring drummers) is the ability to get gear when and where it's needed.
I saw a clinic with Zoro many years ago. He was a DW drummer, but the store didn't have a DW kit, so he used a stunning Ayotte wood hoop kit they had on hand (I still dream of that kit!). He kept commenting on how good it sounded and felt (those wood hoops!). After it was done, I heard him talking with the drum shop guys about how he'd switch to Ayotte in a heartbeat, but they don't have the network of DW.
great video!!! Ego will creep
I have one of these deals with a cymbal company that I absolutely love. I get artist pricing, but my artist pricing is cheaper than what these are going for used. I told them I didn't care to be on their website; I just love their product and I'm a pretty good customer, and I would like artist pricing. They are a great company to work with.
Similar thing happens to me where I was “endorsed” by a company and had to pay a lot for it….. more than a bigger company lower tear drums which were much better quality. The kit arrived but was very different to the spec we agreed upon and then radio silence one I received the drums. They were also the worst sounding drums I’ve ever played and still encourage people to avoid the company to this day.
Dude I think you could get a meinl endorsement! I seen a lot of TH-cam tik tok and Instagram drummers are getting those endorsements. You deserve it
great channel Cole.. All the right reasons.
Appreciate it Derek!
2023 they are still open I know the owner Shaun. It is literally the owner and that's it. He calls it more of a boutique shop only building for "exclusive clients" or "clients who have bought more than one kit from them in the past and he has time"
I remember shine , I’ve heard a few stories similar to yours.
I still have my OCDP kit from that era still in cases I’m my basement lol
Yep! OCDP was one of the "lucky" ones to get bought out by GC. They were ubiquitous in that era though too.
I'm endorsed by Facebook Marketplace
🤣
I ran into this a few years ago with 'Imperial Cymbals' but spotted it a mile away. I'm not leaving Sabian for 15% off 'artist pricing' lol
Im late to the party here. I like your statements involving validation with endorsements. I was the same way with one I received about 15 years ago. I was a buyer/salesperson in drum retail. Butt the endorsement made me famous, right? Good times!
Most companies use Keller shells. Dw did for years. There was a point where there was 100 custom companies. Dark horse. Shine. SJC. All the same stuff rebadged. I personally think sonor Pearl and Yamaha (sakae) and Tama make the best and solid shells. Pearl gets my vote for hardware as well overall. Lifetime warranty??? Can't beat it. Endorsement deals are strange. There are different levels as well. I was a B level Pearl endorser from 2008-2010. Still paid for stuff but got to have loan and backline on tour for nada. Was cool. They also let me test the now demon drive pedals before market and said keep 'em. I was in right place at right time for that deal. Literally on a bus and walked into Pearl artist headquarters on accident in LA. They opened that day....a lot of this biz is luck. Good points though. Those companies were trying to endorse every kid on warped tour and every band they could. And went bust. Meinl was the only company that manages to pull that off right as well as SJC. SJC does do some cool finishes and quirky stuff. I will give them that.
Very eloquently put
I remember a drum company called Allegra drums was doing the same thing, minus the fraud. They'd give you an "endorsement"; of which involved getting a discount, plus, youd have to have the name visible to the audience. I think on the bass drum resonant head. That being said, I would've gladly done it at the time, but even with a discount, the drums were super spendy. I always wanted a set of Allegra drums, until I figured out they dont make their own shells. They just buy Kellar shells. Super disappointing.
Great advice sorry you got ripped off
No worries, ended up being a good lesson in the end!
They have different levels of endorsement in all companies only top tier artists get free gear and management. Everyone else gets a discount or just promotion without discount.
Yep, that’s true and fairly common knowledge. Different situation than the one I’m describing though.
Did you even watch the video? Cole got his money stolen
Even top level artists don't get free gear, maybe once or if its a signature model, but 99% pay "artist pricing"
cough scorpion percussion cough soultone cough
🙃
Collision drum sticks company are the same
Soultone, anyone?
😬😬😬
I played and owned their cymbals and loved them before I reached out to endorse them. I did the 2 year minimum contract, and after period was up I didn't resign but after playing whatever I wanted to play after the contract I went to the local music store and found a few Soultones used and now proudly playing them without a endorsement. I like their cymbals for me. In the end it set me up a way to get to try arrange of cymbals, and I truly found my sound with them. I had a free gear endorsement with a drum manufacturer, so I wasn't looking for validation. Great cymbals
@sammyclarkdrums - Very nice cymbals.
One of the band I was in, their drummer in between two of my stints with the band had a Soultone endorsement. He had left a cracked cymbal in the rehearsal studio. I played on it a couple times and it was beautiful. Even the was it looked was gorgeous.
ah yes. i remember this era well. was in the same boat as many young impressionable dumdums wanting a flashy 'custom' kit from sjc/spaun/truth but not having a spare 5k laying around. no offense but even with my poor taste at the time i could not get on board with shine lol. bad graphic design/branding and some of the most nonsensical clashing hardware/finish/striped wrap combinations imaginable. remember scrolling thru a forum showcasing some of the ugliest custom drums anyone has ever seen and shine were prominently featured alongside many 90s/00s OCDP abominations hahah
i actually visited truth custom drums shop about 10 years ago as they were quite close to where i lived at the time. not the warmest fellas out there but they let my 19 yr old ass hang out with them for a bit and showed me around. they had no reservations about talking major smack about shine and told me a story about a customer who came into their shop with a shine snare complaining about tuning problems. when they took it apart they discovered the 45° outer edge cut went all the way to the MIDDLE of a 20 PLY SHELL. yet to hear of anything as egregious in the world of drum building
long rant i apologize, just have a lot of thoughts on the subject having grown up in this era. i never had the compulsion to attempt any 'endorsement' deals as i knew i didn't have anything to offer these companies, but nor did they to me, so good call in retrospect! instead i just got really good at scouring guitar center used/marketplace/reverb etc for deals on used custom snares over the years (actually still rocking a love custom 6.5x14 aluminum that i scored for $270 and adore). seems like truth/dark horse/spaun and probably some others from that first wave of custom builders are still holding on but most are long gone. the bar has been set SO much higher in the last 7-8 years or so for boutique builders. truly insane stuff from A&F/Q drum (RIP)/love custom/oriollo/reverie/cherry hill and countless others. actually worth the small fortune imo. anyway thanks for sharing your story!! was truly a free for all in those days..
Love that you're pointing out what a good era we're in right now for custom builders. Polar opposite of back then where everything was basically the same with some egregious aesthetic choices. Right now it seems like everyone's doing something unique, like all the brands you mentioned as well as all the great snare and even cymbal companies. I might need to make a followup!
@@ColeParamore couldn't agree more. such a great time to be into drums. and good point about cymbals too! actually just received a made-to-order 24" special jazz ride from a turkish company called agean and am blown away with the quality. specified my ideal gram weight at right around 2800 grams and they nailed it. turnaround time was crazy fast and only had to drop $300. feel spoiled haha. would love to hear a followup! so much to talk about on the changing state of the drum industry.
A friend of mine paid $3000+ for a 3 piece and snare custom kit from shine in 2019, came to him in 5 weeks. It comes out of tune often lol.
Sorry this was your experience. I was a shine artist in 2009-2011. Shine was nothing but the best experience. From the top down they had amazing people working there. I’ve spoken with the owner of shine since and they are trying to make a comeback. I’ve actually been restoring the old kit I had and shared this with the owner. He sent me the parts list and some free stickers to help me rebuild the kit. Did this completely for free on his own time.
My thought is that entering into a relation ship requires work from both sides. It’s like paying for a degree or taking out a loan. It’s a partnership.
Cough cough SOULTONE cymbals cough
Why do you say that about soultone cymbals?