@FloralFromUnderARock @IdolKiller Where is the flag planted? Warren pinned a clip where James says no one knows if their children will be saved (before they demonstrate belief) but the statement was not specific to infants (as far as I could tell). I've asked Warren to clarify this, but he has not responded. (I mean, he responded but did not answer the question - which is precisely what he's taking issue with James for not doing, but I digress....) What is incredibly ironic is that Calvin himself held one of the most liberal positions on how covenant succession was imparted to the children of Christians. It's wild this conversation is even associated with Calvin. It is much more logical that a system dependent on man's free will would damn those who never have the opportunity to express theirs. Unless you don't believe in original sin. Unless scripture is inaccurate when it calls us sinners and enemies of Christ when He yet died for us. Romans 5:8-10. (it's my loose and humble understanding that Warren does not agree with scripture in this place where most Christians otherwise do). I highly doubt James White is scared to debate this. It seems far more likely he doesn't intend to represent a position he does not hold & realizes when a tender topic is not a subject for a debate. I think part of what has amassed sensitivity in this place is Warren's projection of what he himself is doing. He condemns the notion of those who would place their children on the pyre (and rightly so). But he is placing the sensitivity of infant loss on the chopping block for clickbait. I'm sad I'm here for it, but I fear so much is at stake. 💔
I told someone the other day that i have been a Bible reading, Bible studying, prayerful, thoughtful, contemplating Christian for more than 30 years. Yet in all that time, study, reading, prayer, fasting, contemplating God and His word, never did the ideas of Calvinism ever enter my mind or spirit in any form or fashion! No, I had to go to a calvinist to hear such ideas of God. I can safely tell you that even if I had 30 lifetimes, the ideas of Calvinism would never have reached me minus a literal calvinist to provide them.
So true. I was a Christian for 10 years and never went to Brick and Mortar Church. What Calvinists are saying never once occurred in my intense study of the Bible. Only when I talked to Calvinists latter did I understand what they were really saying. It was shocking to the core that they are so Cult like. They are aggressive and dogmatic.Quick to hammer down any opposition to John Calvin. It is a cancer I had the pleasure of not knowing about for the first 10 years as a Christian! But now I am in the thick of it and declare that ever day is "Calvin Whacking Day" to me. Not because I get a kick out of doing so but to try and protect the flock from these devils preaching an other doctrine of demons to them. The cripple baby Christians, they make atheists out of those searching, they ship wreck the faith of many. and all the while don't realize that they never knew HIM. Truth in love
And that's because...it's a doctrine of MAN. It doesn't come from God. No doubt Satan planted it in the mind of semi-pagan Augustine... "Augustine is so wholly within me that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and satisfaction to myself out of his writings" (John Calvin)
@@leenieledejo6849 Yes! and they chase after that heresy and crush anyone who dares to disagree. (Well they try) My litmus test when ever a Calvinist starts their calvinist thrashing machine, is what they are saying agree with these two verses. How is what they are saying side with these two verses? If they do not agree then I know they are misinterpreting the verse they are using. Even a six year old can understand that. 1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Only a self blinded person cannot see these beautiful messages from God for what they are. They would rather believe a lie . Truth in love
Dude you are killing it with the production value. Those clips strung together using the calvinist's own words are epic. Keep it up. Be even more bold!
@@IdolKiller Warren I wish you could get a video clip of Piper saying that god was responsible for the nazi death camps and the rape of a child. To see him say it would be such a powerful tool.
Im so grateful that you covered/cover this topic. My Pastor actually said this Sunday (yesterday) that "Infants are born selfish and sinners. That they will selfishly awaken their parents at all hours of the night with selfish wants. " For me, understanding where this belief comes from takes the shock away when things like this are said. It also helps me to know how to pray for the people who say these things. Thank you, Warren, for all you do. I got your Dead men worship dead men shirt for Christmas. I love it!! Thank you for your ministry.
So it's a selfish sin for a baby that God gave you to want milk so it doesn't starve to death? What a rotten sinner. This is actually insane and I would probably change churches over something that asinine.
I agree with you, and everyone in this thread. And I'm not challenging, but I'm actually asking a question or 2 to learn. And I welcome anyone to share.. So of course, I agree that infants don't go to hell. And when they're crying for milk in the middle of the night it Isn't wrong, selfish nor does it make them sinful. But what about kids who are a little older? And they pretty much seem to be born selfish and not wanting to share and obey etc. And they have to be taught to share and obey etc. Wouldn't that show that they're born sinners? And where does sin come from If we're not born sinners? We are obviously all sinners. Christ died for the sin of the whole world. I know Warren did a series on this. And I haven't watched all of it yet. ( I did watch a few videos) And I should make the time To watch the rest... but I thought I would ask you guys. Thanks in advance.
Warren, this was a masterful treatment! I've watched you interact with Dr. Flowers on Soteriology 101. I appreciate you speaking up so righteously for the character of God!
The reason I left calvinism is because of my children. It gave me an insight into what I was believing was horrendous.. This was couple of months ago. While having family meal, we were duscusssing about being saved. My children asked my husband(still a string Calvinist) how do I become saved? My husband replied, "I don't know if God has chosen you to be saved, maybe or maybe not." I was terrified by his answer. Because, in calvinism there was nothing I could do to save my children. It was Gods choice. I am glad I prayed and searched the scriptures, followed many non-Calvinist videos. And God brought me out of Calvinism totally. I feel so free, assured about my salvation, and share with my children the good news, which is for everyone.
Good Calvinists will not go straight to election when asked about the way to salvation (repentance and faith in Jesus, new creature in Christ etc) It's actually a Muslim thing to not know if God will save you or not (if Allah wills or not). Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; If you truly believe in Jesus Christ then Calvinism using the Bible will tell you that God chose to give you saving faith, you can be assured of your salvation by biblical truths. Christian parents can try and also pray that their children will share their faith but not all do. Parents should teach their faith to their children still
This is like a person asking about dinosaurs and the christian says the devil place the bones to trick us then making a youtube comment that this was the reason they switched to atheism@@Steven-hq3go
Glad you’re out of it. Your husbands response shows that unfortunately a Calvinists trust (despite what they say) is in election and not in Christs sacrifice and resurrection alone for salvation. This alteration to the basic Gospel is proof alone that Calvinism is a false teaching. We can all pray that the Holy Spirit reveals this to your husband.
@@Steven-hq3goSo “good Calvinists” pretend like Calvinism isn’t true and live their life as-if they believe a lie? To be a good Calvinist you must contradict Calvinism? That makes sense.
@@JohnK557Election, predestination isn't the first thing you teach someone about Jesus dying on the cross to pay for our sins, is all I was trying to say. If you've repented and retirement believe knowing that God unconditionally choose you to bring you to faith ought to feel very grateful and love God more for
@@davevandervelde4799it’s not funny, just a logical implication of your system that you must address, but Calvinists don’t, they just say, “you think this is funny?” Or “ugh that’s getting so old.” Calvinists have to face the fact that anything they’re against is, according to their Calvinism, determined by God according to His will and good pleasure.
It’s not just meant to be funny. It’s meant to point out an extremely obvious logical inconsistency. It’s very similar to asking an Atheist who claims “there is no truth” the question “Is that statement true?” Until Calvinists can actually answer their own inconsistency logically, we’re gonna keep heaping on the Kryptonite.
“How deranged, how much can you sit there, and hold this book in your hands , and say you actually believe it. How far can you go in how you twist was it says?” These words from his mouth, the irony is sublime.
I love how Warren, Flowers, and all these other guys are always calm and collected in their responses, while White and this other guy are always aggressive and hostile in theirs. Like a kid who was just insulted on the playground. Goes to show who's handling this with a lot more maturity.
Total Depravity does exist but it's only the Calvinism of Calvinists. Seems they cab not rightly understand spiritual truth else they would leave this horrible theology that impugnes our Holy God of Love.
@@yllowbird DW: Something that is critical to understand about Calvinism - is that it is a belief system in conflict with itself. Calvinism is predominantly a doctrine of divine malevolence. Calvinist leaders are smart enough to know people are not going to embrace a doctrine of divine malevolence. They have to somehow SELL it as a doctrine of divine benevolence. In order to do that - they have to HIDE those aspects of the doctrine which are malevolent toward the creature. Calvinism's TULIP - is designed for that purpose. So the "T" in the TULIP is designed to HIDE the fact that in Calvinism - the state of nature - including every man's nature - at every nano-second in time - is 100% meticulously predestined. And the state of every man's nature - at every nano-second in time - cannot possibly be other than what Calvin's god decreed it to infallibly be. And man is give NO SAY and NO CHOICE in the matter. So it is best to see Calvinism's TULIP as a marketing strategy designed to hide what they don't want you to see - in order to make the product appear acceptable.
Ironically, I'm beginning to think it's destiny that God would eventually stop tolerating Calvinism and bring their errors to light and rebuke by the Church
@@SugoiEnglish1 Calvinists are not a monolithic group on this subject. James White holds that some infants are non-elect, just like adults. He's been very clear and honest about it.
A reminder about David’s first infant son with Bathsheba. “And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.“ 2 Samuel 12:15, 22-23 KJV David knew he couldn’t bring his son back, but that he would be reunited again with his infant son in Heaven with the Lord.
@@lessofme53 Let's see how honest your Calvinist god has predestined you to be or if he has predestined you to lie. Luke 18:15-16 KJV - 15 And *they brought unto him also infants,* that he would touch them: but when [his] disciples saw [it], they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, *Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.* Does Jesus say that the kingdom of God belongs to children and infants?
Your production quality just keeps going through the roof... Opening up with the infants floating in space and in their space suits was genius! God bless you, and may He keep using you and your talents for His glory, Warren ✝
"Hence, even infants bringing their condemnation with them from their mothers womb, suffer not for another's, but for their own defect. For although they have not yet produced the fruits of their own unrighteousness, they have the seed implanted in them. Nay, their whole nature is, as it were, a seed-bed of sin and cannot therefore be but odious and abominable to God." The Institutes of the Christian Religion. Book II Chapter 1 Section VIII. Compare that with Psalm 127:3 - "Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, The fruit of the womb is a reward."
@Steven-hq3go so God blesses couples with odious and abominable kids whose whole nature is a seed bed of sin and who may be only created for destruction? What a blessing.
DW: In Calvinism the creature cannot have an impulse in its brain that it can call "its own" Every impulse is AUTHORED at the foundation of the world - which makes Calvin's god as its origin - and makes it the property of Calvin's god. In Calvinism - the human brain simply functions as a passive container for impulses AUTHORED by Calvin's god which are decreed to infallibly and thus irresistibly come to pass. The Calvinist is in a constant state of denial of this aspect of his doctrine He has no emotional problem attributing "Good" impulses which infallibly come to pass to his god. But he has a serious emotional problem attributing "Evil" impulses which infallibly come to pass to his god He cherry-picks and denies those aspects of his doctrine which he finds unpalatable. He is simply manifesting the typical human response to a doctrine of "Good-Evil"
@@Steven-hq3go Why would offspring be considered a blessing, though? If John Calvin's view on infants is correct, shouldn't bringing a child into the world been seen as something sinful and wicked instead of a reward?
@@losnfjslefn8857 No because God can use infants like he can use us for good purposes. Just because infants inherit sinfulness due to our fallen nature does not make infants evil. A child cannot commit actual sin until they are older and capable of realising right from wrong. The hope is also that Christian parents begot Christian children but this is not always the case.
This topic is what led me to question Calvinism and do more studying on the subject. You never went after a person but the logical implications of their theology.
Many calvinists don't defend the gospel of christ, they get angry when opposing their doctrine and defend the gospel of calvin. And this gospel is not "good news" by definition.
@@cinemadart I was a Calvinist for about 4 years and God predestined me to come out of the cult of Calvinism….. Chapter and verse on infants…….ill wait………
@@polskigirl8547 You'll be waiting a long time because Calvinists don't use Scripture to inform their beliefs rather they use the teachings of long dead murdering megalomaniacs from the 16th century to twist whatever Scripture they can, to say whatever they need it to say, to affirm their already held philosophical commitments.
So glad you are taking some of the pressure off us charismatics who normally bear the brunt of the condemnation from these self-righteous pharisees. welcome to the heretic club; you receive full membership immediately, and you dont even have to affirm our stance on the continuation of the gifts.
Matthew 18:10 KJV - Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Well done Warren. You and I don’t always agree but this is a topic I think the same as you. You remain kind and level headed while calling out this doctrine of demons. To me it goes beyond poor theology because it attacks the very heart and character of God and makes Him to be a monster to the ones we love so deeply. To me it’s so blatantly demonic. Thank you for being bold and calling it out.
If it's any issue that we as imagers made by the God of love as revealed in scripture should be vehemently opposed to is this doctrine of demons as infant domination!!!
Been a Calvinist for 57 years. Always taught children are saved in death by our gracious Lord and Savior. I stand with you in rebuking anyone who teaches any other.
Glad to have you with us! Reminds me of that Lord of the Rings meme... "I never thought I'd die, side by side with a nonCalvinist." "How about with a friend?" "Aye, I could do that."
@@Steven-hq3go when, and to the degree, they know the law. Jonah 4:11 The entire city of Ninevah were clueless, and God can make a sovereign decision to spare whomever he wants.
@@Steven-hq3go, Jesus said if you were blind (pertaining to knowledge) you would have no sin (Jn 9:41). Sin has always pertained to knowledge. When a child knows something is wrong and then does it, they are then guilty of breaking the law written on their hearts. That is when they are culpable for their sin.
@@sethmcmullen2332 you mention knowledge as well as the law of God written on our hearts. Do you believe people who have no access to the gospel are culpable for their sin? What about children in strange cultures where what is thought of as sinful by us is not by them? Are they guilty even though they lack mental knowledge or because they disobey the law written on their hearts? John 9 Jesus Affirms His Deity 35Jesus heard that they had [j]put him out, and upon finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36He answered [k]by saying, “And who is He, [l]Sir, that I may believe in Him?” 37Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38And he said, “I believe, Lord.” And he worshiped Him. 39And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.” 40Those who were with Him from the Pharisees heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now that you maintain, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
I heard a Calvinist say that even unregenerate unborn children are damned. It doesn’t matter if those unborn babies are innocent. They have not had the righteousness of Christ imputed to them, so too bad so sad. Calvinism makes people believe horrible things about God.
What we may see as horrible could be just from God's perspective. I don't know if infants are saved, if so or not I accept either as right as it's God's choice and it's as creatures cannot moralise towards God. If there are many saved infants in heaven that is to God's glory, if there aren't then that also is I think.
DW: We need to understand - terms like "Guilty" or "innocent" in Calvinism - are not what NORMAL Christians understand. In Calvinism's conception of divine sovereignty - Calvin's god does not look down the corridor of time and *OBSERVE* what the creature will be or do - and then hold the creature accountable - because that would make Calvin's god a passive *OBSERVER* rather than the DETERMINER of whatsoever comes to pass. Therefore in Calvinism the LABELS "Guilty" or "Innocent" are NOT DETERMINED by the creature or the condition thereof - because that would compromise divine sovereignty. In Calvinism - the LABELS "Guilty" or "Innocent" are DETERMINED solely by Calvin's god's *GOOD PLEASURE* So a baby can be born today - and Calvin's god can LABEL that baby "Guilty" for a tree falling in Africa 20 thousand years ago - if that is Calvin's god's good pleasure. Calvin's god does not have to have a reason for condemning that baby to eternal torment in a lake of fire - other than his *GOOD PLEASURE* That baby does not have to do anything or be anything to be LABELED "Guilty" because that would make the creature the DETERMINER rather than Calvin's god.
well he is either not understanding his own calvanism or you are misremembering it. There are no innocent babies because they're are no innocent people. Babies cry, they are impatient, they want the world to revolve around them, etc. There are lots of examples of sin inside babies. This is because they are born in Adam, in Adam all die. When Adam obeyed the serpent he made himself a slave to Satan (Rom. 6:16). And slaves do not give birth to freemen but to slaves, slaves of sin and death. There is also the verse in Ec. 7:20, there is no righteous person. I don't think God sends babies to hell because it says in the Bible He does not, but babies are not innocent. Children are often incredibly sinful and cruel.
Calvinist ideas see man in the darkest of way. In ways that Christ Himself has never looked at man and this way and have made them to hate the creating inspiration which God has endowed humanity by despising mans artistic drive which is the creation of what is good
I had this exact conversation with a Calvinist who flat told me yes some of them do go to hell. This was when I realized that calvinism isn't just another biblical theology but a cult. They litteraly worship John Calvin himself. That is the only explanation why any so called "Christian" can just accept that God sends some babies to hell and why they scream heretic evertime someone disagrees with Calvin Almighty.
I just found your content! Love the video! I myself came out of a Calvinist church ( I never was a Calvinist), but the fact that I disagreed with them, I was never accepted, so we finally left after two years of no community
It’s like they want to hold the view that their children may be eternally reprobate, but then get angry at someone else pointing out that may be the case on their view.
That is the thing! They don't like this being exposed because on some level they know it makes them look like sick demented fools! Which they are. Truth in Love
@@SugoiEnglish1 I guess you have a selective memory of what you block from your Calvinist mind. Calvi- god hates almost every infant that dies because Calvin says so. (John Calvin Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6) God arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death and are to glorify him by their destruction......... That includes infants! (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5) “…salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it.”........... That includes infants! The insanity of Calvi-god is that even the Calvinist has to admitt that Calvi-god doesn't love them either! Calvi-god just decided not to destroy them for his twisted pleasure like he does the majority of Pinocchio people he created. At least have the guts to defend your Calvi-god system!! Truth in love
Unbelievers: Promote abortion. Calvinists: Promote a view of God throwing babies into hell. The act of promoting one, or both, is evil. But forgive me if I call the latter one worse.
Warren I have gone down deep in the comments section and have noticed that I haven't seen even one Calvinist Troll down there doing damage control! This one topic is so powerful that not even the great Calvinist Warrior Troll "Manny" is willing to defend it. Well done Warren!! (your production quality is excellent) Truth in love
I had virtually the same worrying discussion with my (now ex ) pastor. Who after he told me that God plans the rape and murder of children using compatabilism 😱😱that he would accept if his children who are now young, when they became ‘of age’ rejected Christ and were condemned to hell. I can’t believe he followed this up with but when he got to heaven that every tear would be wiped from his (own) eyes!!! He thought that was acceptable!! I really enjoy the way you articulate the heresy of Calvinism. Thank you.
Not all children of Christian parents become or stay Christians, this is evident just by observing the world I think. Christ died for our sins and by believing in him our sins are paid for and we no longer receive the just punishment of eternal damnation. I can understand you would want children to be saved but if they reject him they aren't saved. If they are elected they will believe before they die.
@@Steven-hq3go well, therein lies the crux of it all. You believe election means election to salvation as decreed by God for some, but not most, before the foundation of the world. I can tell you that if a child of mine rejected God as you put it (but you really mean, God made for reprobation) then there is no comfort in knowing God planned and decreed it with himself. Rather that a child had the same chance to accept or believe as I did. Also I can tell you from sad experience that some children grow up being taught Calvinism. Then when they work out themselves how unbiblical and inane it all is, then they turn away and become atheistic.
@@7CorgiGirl another way of putting it rather than decree of reprobation is that God in his will has chosen to extend his grace, love and mercy to turn a sinner into a saint. People turn away from Jesus, the Bible, God, Christianity, religion (and may return) not simply because of Calvinism but from disbelief and sin, not all seeds are sowed equal. I'm not really sure at what stage to introduce Calvin teachings as I became a Christian as an adult. Just teach the Bible and explain what verses mean most accurately.
@@Steven-hq3go hey Steven I’m not sure if you are a Calvinist or just considering the teachings of Calvin. The only advise I can give you, is before you agree with such as White and MacArthur Lawson etc. study non Calvinist teachings alongside it. I was a Calvinist for many years. Believed it, argued it and defended it. However I’ve come to see the error of it. The heresy and the different gospel it brings.
@@Steven-hq3go _"another way of putting it rather than decree of reprobation is that God in his will has chosen to extend his grace..."_ Why Calvinists always do this? Promoting the palatable side of their doctrines and ignoring horrendous side because they're ashamed of it? Promote the full claim: God first decreed to reprobate everyone in eternity past, then decreed to arbitrarily save a select few. _"People turn away from Jesus, the Bible, God, Christianity, religion not simply because of Calvinism but from disbelief and sin..."_ But in Calvinism that's because God decreed for them to turn away from Him and have unbelief and sin, nothing else! People are born God haters because that's what God decreed for them to be, and they have no say in the matter. So yes, Calvinism is the reason they do all of that if Calvinism is true. _"I'm not really sure at what stage to introduce Calvin teachings..."_ You should never introduce Calvin teachings to anybody! (Gal.1:8). Stick to the Bible.
If the God of Calvinism is real we have a moral duty to oppose him. His position is unsustainable and a God of Agape love will eventually overthrow him. I've run the simulations. This is certain.
I've been pondering this question for a week now: what is the hyper-Calvinist understanding of agape love? Do they preach and teach it in the same way---or at all---as it is preached and taught in non-Calvinist churches?
@@tmorganriley Cognitive dissonance to the rescue here. You will often get an accurate definition of "Agape" when you ask a Calvinist. They will also acknowledge the bible teaches God is love ("agape"). When pressed about what motivates God they will insists God seeks his own glory. When pressed further they will insists God seeks his own glory with total disregard for who gets destroyed in the process. This is by definition selfishness and in fact the opposite of "agape." However, when asked if they believe God is selfish they will (sometimes) insist "selfish" is pejorative so it's inappropriate to use this word to describe God. I've had this conversation with the head of the theology department at Moody Bible Institute. It's all cognitive dissonance. The primary issue I have with systems of theology like this is that they are focused on using particular sets of words rather than communicating useful or accurate information.
AMen, Brother!!!!!! Thank you for your love for God and His Word. Thank you for bringing up very hard issues. You are spot on in your analysis on Calvinism. And Praise the Lord for the wonderful Scriptures you gave at the end of this video !!!!!! God's Word speaks for itself !!!!! Hallelujah!!!!
Yea I remember Warren debating Matt Slick, who was affirming infant damnation, and then realized he lost a child, and immediately backtracked that position to babies go to heaven, it did not even apologize or acknowledge his 180 degree turn, once his children were considered. Warren was gracious not to call him out on that, he let Matt do it to himself with silence. Which showed how unbiblical and dreadful infant damnation doctrine is.
@@Tigerex966so he didn’t change his mind based on theology, but on emotions… got it. There are zero verses in the Bible that say when babies die they go to heaven. Can you also tell me then at what millisecond do I need to start begging my child to accept Jesus. Cause they are now accountable for sins and will now go to hell? Also if said child when they turn 15-16 and now say they renounce Christ and then live as an atheist in sin the rest of there life when they die at 68 are they still saved and good to go because they said they loved Jesus when they were 8?
@@kirkchurchil8216awesome you are now disagreeing with hyper calvinist matt slick who used to believe that as well. And that not true my brother. Even calvinust Matt Slick concluded babies and his dead infant child gi to be with the Lord, not to hell. Based on the word of God, newer saying babies are in hell which contradicts john Calvin and others, instead the opposite is true for the young ones. And yes the emotions of a father for all of his children lost before they reach the age of accountability for whatever reason, so both is the correct answer, and that's ok we are both logical and emotional, and at to es it's not either or as both can be true simultaneously .I suggest you tell him he is wrong, and his infant dead child has a greater chance of being in hell than heaven . Mhe has an email, we dught and channel, should not be hard to do Reread the Bible and that of dead babies and what Jesus said about children. Jesus is the final judge of the heart I telect and salvation and age of accountability, not you certainly not me, I suggest you ask him and search the scriptures, as for each of us it's different when we truly knew right from wrong intellectually. In fact I will reverse it on you show me a detailed book chapter verse of God torturing babies in hell, doomed from the womb as John Calvin says or vipers and diapers as voddie says .ill wait...
@@rossduncan4187, Jesus called adults children of wrath and children of disobedience. "Child" did not relate to their age or being young, but it was about them being offspring (the literal use of child). Here's what Jesus said: "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 19:14, Lk 18:16) "Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein." (Lk 18:17) "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 18:3)
@@rossduncan4187, and? I was painting Jesus' view of children. Is Jesus' mind, you have to BECOME like a child to enter heaven. Was Jesus telling his followers to become wicked and depraved to enter the kingdom of heaven? Also, you have a double standard. You accused my verses of not being about young children, but about adults. EVERYTHING you said was about adults and had NOTHING to do with children. It's a dishonest, straw-man argument.
@@sethmcmullen2332 No my friend, your premise is wrong, you've assumed that children are good, that's contrary to the scripture, what The Lord Jesus calls us to is to be humble as a child, to believe like a child, but you presume that all that children are is good, not so, but only the qualities of obedience and humility.
Good job warren! Calvinists always get super upset when you feed their own conclusions back to them. It’s ok for calvinists to say stupid things like Hebagan ... but to say CalviPagan is “WOW! Way to far!!!”
@@IdolKiller Well I know Marlon personally and while I would agree he is a good guy, loves the Lord and is a good husband father (I helped him move into his house) like many hardened Calvinist's he refuses to humble himself and look at scripture without his tulip glasses. He tricked my sibling into Calvinism who became a full 7 pointer (tulip+double predestination+hard determinism) and took me 4 years to help him get out. Thankfully my sibling did reject the system. Marlon like Dr. White have their Calvin team tattooed on their chest now and I don't think any level of reasoning or Biblical exegesis will change that, they simply have closed their minds and souls. I have written multiple articles just for Marlon and even though we had a personal relationship at one point in the past, he never read them nor honestly or openly considered their merits. The same for Dr. White, he never actually listens nor reads yours or Flower's actual full comments and content, because he would have to actually address it. I'm not aware of White doing a comment by comment review of Flowers like Flowers does to white. We all know the reason why.
@@rogervincent2092 Oh, no! Whatever will I do? There's an Calvinist invoking one of the "DCPs"/Dead Calvinists on Pedestals that Calvinists' man-centered theology worships like pagans worship their demigods and Roman Catholics worship their "saints"! It's as terrifying as Mormons invoking Joseph Smith, or JWs invoking the Watchtower! As for who I am, I'm someone who theologically runs circles around Luciferian loons like Edwards, not because I'm that good (I'm nobody in particular), but because they're that bad! The "god" they worship is morally indistinguishable from the devil, is contrary to everything Scripture in context reveals about God, and is constantly divided against himself. The average toddler could make up an imaginary superhero better than the "god" of Calvin, Edwards, Sproul and the rest of the DCPs.
@@rogervincent2092it isn't even arguable unless you mean a couple guys arguing for it this make it arguable. Amd you are? Apparently a respecter of persons.
Even though Scripture clearly states God didn't decree babies to be thrown into the fire, nonetheless Calvinist dogmatically affirm he decreed it. I don't see what the fuss is from their position.
"Gah!!!! Arrrrrr!!! I am so angry I can not believe what you just said. How can you be like that Warren! I just can't! You are a liar!!!" "I feel for you I really do. I mean I would be just as frustrated if I had to defend as illogical, unreasonable, amoral and unscriptural as Calvnist theology." - Mic Drop -
HECK yes. Warren, God bless and strengthen you for calling heinous evil for what it is. And Marlon - what good is it what CalvinISTs say, if CalvinISM teaches something else? The system itself determines what is consistent with it - that these people are inconsistent with the system should stand as evidence they should abandon the system.
To even be a Calvinist you must be dishonest with yourself first. A person who is willing to be dishonest with themselves will most assuredly do the same to others…….
I think it comes down to misanthropy, they denigrate mankind (God's greatest visible created being) so much that they have to concede Jesus' as savior rather than recognizing it was valuable at all to get one, which is the opposite of felix culpa.
So no Calvinist defends their position with God-breathed scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17)? Their "greatest" defense is they're offended? No, this particular situation had Warren making a sweeping statement against people. I understand it completely. When I had African-American Christians in the churches talking about "white" privilege among Caucasian Christians, I asked some personally did they think white people held racist views they didn't even know about. They said yes. So I asked if that also included my wife, who is also white. They tried to tell me it wasn't personal, and yet since my wife fit their category, then it meant they thought that way about her personally even while we were having fellowship with them. So making a sweeping statement about Calvinists equating their election and their children's potential non-election to Baal child worship is actually an attack on a person. In this case, the offense is warranted.
@@2timothy23 Of course Calvinists use Scripture to make their points. I am simply suggesting that their absolute best defense (that is so often used) is taking offense. And your taking offense and misrepresentation of what Warren was saying is proof. Now discarding the man-centered concerns of the individual souls involved, I think the vast majority of us are extremely concerned with the version of god you are presenting. In complete contrast to the totality of Scripture, the Calvinist version of god has irresistibly given the vast majority of all humans a sinful nature in order to condemn them to Hell for eternity for his glory and to display his power to those he did choose. In contrast to 2 Peter 3:9 and literally all demonstrations of His character in Scripture, the god of Calvinism literally has the attributes of Satan who "desires" to eternally destroy people for his own glory. For the Calvinist however, when it's from Satan it is bad but when their version of god does it is good. And even from you world-view, the people you are complaining about believe what they believe because the Calvinist god wants them to believe that about all white people. they're just being and doing what they're preordained to be and do. Who art thou to reply?
The Calvinist has a mindset similar to the mindset of the chattel slave owners in the USA in the past. Ie, some people are inherently winners by virtue of some characteristic that’s out of their control (such as calvinistic election or being white) and there are some people who are inherently losers by some characteristic that’s out of their control (such as Calvinistic reprobation and being black). As such, the losers are condemned for things that are out of their control, and it’s supposed to be acceptable because that’s just the way that God made things. It’s complete dirtbaggery. And, the Calvinists fake indignation demonstrated by White, Marlon, and others, is as genuine as the fake humility they demonstrate when they claim they are in the elect.
Revelation 20:12-13 (HCSB) I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books. Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all were judged according to their works. The unborn, infants, the severely mentally handicapped, etc. don’t have any works. Therefore, such cannot be damned.
I believe that God is not bound by laws of the universe that he created such as time. Everything that will happen is known to God and everyone decided (elected) by God's mercy be given the gift of repentance and faith in Jesus Christ It's quite probable that infants who die are all elect of God but not all older children who have the mental capacity. However many multitudes according to God's judgement is good.
And get VERY offended at anyone who dares to suggest that his position that "orange and pink go perfectly together" may not be 100% correct in all circumstances...
Wow Warren, infants are innocent!? just appalling! 😂 The Calvinist response is hilarious. Typical. We all know these guys would be hugging John Calvin's skirt and screaming at you on the pire in Geneva. Love you brother, keep holding strong against their snarling. You are truly representing the Lord well.
Every Calvinist or reformed thinker (that supports election) with children, (regardless of their child’s age), has to ask or wonder if their children are elect. This by default proves their faith/hope for Salvation is in election and not Christs sacrifice and resurrection alone. This twist of the gospel by definition, makes Calvinisim a false teaching.
Warren, once again, technology and truth hand-in-hand can be very humorous 👍🏻👍🏻👏👊🏼 As white goes on his infantile tirade about his phantom strawman, and you interject the rock ‘n’ roll hymn, I was dying 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@IdolKiller I don't think a single one of these Calvinists apologists would debate you an infant damnation. So sometimes you have to use inflammatory statements to make a point
What’s outrageous, unbelievable, and disgusting, is Calvinist and anyone else that teaches the damnation of the unborn and a child! That’s appalling, and violently dishonest to not address it.
1:46 -- That's the same kind of spirit & mindset that the ancient worshippers of pagan deites would engage in when they would sacrifice their children to Ba'al." And I'm sure many of them wept for more than 3 days.
They believe they're elect, because they believe they're elect... they have confidence their belief is valid as evidenced by their continued believing they're elect.
I can’t believe how horrible you are… for saying babies don’t go to hell? How could you dare show mercy to innocent infants! All jokes aside, I can’t believe people actually believe babies are hellbound and evil!
What gets me is all the chaos in the “Christian” church. So many are anything but Christian’s. and by that I mean I’m a Calvinist or I’m a catholic or I’m Orthadox or whatever. So many. It’s brutal. And I struggle with so much understanding and what is right. I know Michael hieser is my favourite teacher and has made sense of so much for me so I thank God for him. May God bless you all and guide you. It’s all Jesus for a believer. His sacrifice. His victory. His righteousness. His faith. It’s all imparted to the believer. The Bible says so. When I tell my children the gospel as I understand it I tell them apart from Christ we are cursed, when you believe in Him and put your faith in him then that’s the line. If you add anything else to that then it’s not a gift, it’s not good news and it’s not grace. And unfortunately we will sin until the day we die. And I struggle every damn day with sin. And I lose more than I win. But I thank God for Jesus. When I don’t know what to pray there is one who intercedes for me. When I sin I have an advocate. And I look forward to the day all things are made right and we can all have clarity and understand. God bless you. ✌🏻
Under the traditional Calvinistic paradigm, we are told to accept and to love the will of God and every detail within it, that is the same will that contains the eternal decree of the death, damnation, and eternal torment of infants in order to increase the magnitude of God’s glory. Under the Pagan paradigm, we are told to accept and to want the will of the gods for our lives to come about concerning every detail of our lives, that is the same will that demands the torment and death of infants. Under paganism, the gods demand infant death and torment for their own glory, but it isn’t something that will necessarily come about. Under Calvinism, God does not demand, rather he invariably decrees and meticulously plans infant death and torment for his own glory. The symmetry is clear. In fact, it’s worse under Calvinism.
That makes perfect sense when one considers that everything that sets Calvinism apart from Biblical Christianity flows from the pagan religion known as Manichean Gnosticism, parts of which were introduced to mainstream Western Christianity in the early 5th Century by Augustine, Calvin's greatest idol.
i have had Calvinist tell me babies go to hell in these guys very own comment section so they have no ground to stand on or need to inform their own audience this isn't the case
CalvinISTS do tend to get really reflexively twitchy and angry when *CalvinISM* (or ideas contained therein) is compared positively to paganism of any stripe - gnosticism, panentheism, neoplatonism, and yes, even Moloch, Baal, Chemosh, Vishnu, Zeus, Ra, Ku'Kul'Kan, et. al. Their faux outrage at those doing the comparison ought to be turned into actual outrage at source of the internal critique - the hellish idea the system propagates. JMO. Thanks for a great video Warren!
You could represent every perspective they actually have then still get told youre misrepresenting them or dont understand calvinism, either theyre purposely leading you to represent them falsely or just cant explain it well enough either way they shouldn't be upset by the flak they get for not explaining it well enough
19:45 AMEN, God is far better than people realize. Calvinists do proclaim God is good... It's just that, within their system, they can't say "how".... because it's a 'mystery'.🤷🏻♂️
Warren, you hit the spot man! 😂 What amazes me about Christians in general is the disconnect between personal reality and their doctrine. If they can intergrate what they believe to their reality they could live a changed life, not just have a pet doctrine and preaching material. Also, if it was real to them they would reconsider what they preach because they would see the practical implications of their doctrines.
Eloquently explained brother! Unlike the nonsense cloud of dust that came out as an explanation for their disagreements, which was no explanation at all!Unfortunately they just used their platform to mislead their audience. Sad…
Calvinists: "Apologize Warren"
Warren: Plants flag on a new hill, "I'll take you all on."
No kidding I almost busted out laughing at the "The Spirit of the Antichrist" statement
Love it 😂😂
@FloralFromUnderARock @IdolKiller Where is the flag planted? Warren pinned a clip where James says no one knows if their children will be saved (before they demonstrate belief) but the statement was not specific to infants (as far as I could tell). I've asked Warren to clarify this, but he has not responded. (I mean, he responded but did not answer the question - which is precisely what he's taking issue with James for not doing, but I digress....) What is incredibly ironic is that Calvin himself held one of the most liberal positions on how covenant succession was imparted to the children of Christians. It's wild this conversation is even associated with Calvin. It is much more logical that a system dependent on man's free will would damn those who never have the opportunity to express theirs. Unless you don't believe in original sin. Unless scripture is inaccurate when it calls us sinners and enemies of Christ when He yet died for us. Romans 5:8-10. (it's my loose and humble understanding that Warren does not agree with scripture in this place where most Christians otherwise do). I highly doubt James White is scared to debate this. It seems far more likely he doesn't intend to represent a position he does not hold & realizes when a tender topic is not a subject for a debate.
I think part of what has amassed sensitivity in this place is Warren's projection of what he himself is doing. He condemns the notion of those who would place their children on the pyre (and rightly so). But he is placing the sensitivity of infant loss on the chopping block for clickbait. I'm sad I'm here for it, but I fear so much is at stake. 💔
@@Shark_fishing yeah I'm not Reading that. Probably just Calvinists prattle.
@@truegravee or, perhaps, you're just not reading?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_succession
I told someone the other day that i have been a Bible reading, Bible studying, prayerful, thoughtful, contemplating Christian for more than 30 years. Yet in all that time, study, reading, prayer, fasting, contemplating God and His word, never did the ideas of Calvinism ever enter my mind or spirit in any form or fashion! No, I had to go to a calvinist to hear such ideas of God. I can safely tell you that even if I had 30 lifetimes, the ideas of Calvinism would never have reached me minus a literal calvinist to provide them.
So true. I was a Christian for 10 years and never went to Brick and Mortar Church. What Calvinists are saying never once occurred in my intense study of the Bible. Only when I talked to Calvinists latter did I understand what they were really saying. It was shocking to the core that they are so Cult like. They are aggressive and dogmatic.Quick to hammer down any opposition to John Calvin. It is a cancer I had the pleasure of not knowing about for the first 10 years as a Christian! But now I am in the thick of it and declare that ever day is "Calvin Whacking Day" to me. Not because I get a kick out of doing so but to try and protect the flock from these devils preaching an other doctrine of demons to them. The cripple baby Christians, they make atheists out of those searching, they ship wreck the faith of many.
and all the while don't realize that they never knew HIM.
Truth in love
Same here.
And that's because...it's a doctrine of MAN. It doesn't come from God.
No doubt Satan planted it in the mind of semi-pagan Augustine...
"Augustine is so wholly within me that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and satisfaction to myself out of his writings" (John Calvin)
@@leenieledejo6849 Yes! and they chase after that heresy and crush anyone who dares to disagree. (Well they try)
My litmus test when ever a Calvinist starts their calvinist thrashing machine, is what they are saying agree with these two verses.
How is what they are saying side with these two verses? If they do not agree then I know they are misinterpreting the verse they are using. Even a six year old can understand that.
1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Only a self blinded person cannot see these beautiful messages from God for what they are. They would rather believe a lie .
Truth in love
So how did you interpret Roman’s 9 or John 6
Dude you are killing it with the production value. Those clips strung together using the calvinist's own words are epic. Keep it up. Be even more bold!
I can't like this comment enough, so I'm commenting to express my appreciation.
@@IdolKiller Warren I wish you could get a video clip of Piper saying that god was responsible for the nazi death camps and the rape of a child. To see him say it would be such a powerful tool.
Im so grateful that you covered/cover this topic. My Pastor actually said this Sunday (yesterday) that "Infants are born selfish and sinners. That they will selfishly awaken their parents at all hours of the night with selfish wants. " For me, understanding where this belief comes from takes the shock away when things like this are said. It also helps me to know how to pray for the people who say these things. Thank you, Warren, for all you do. I got your Dead men worship dead men shirt for Christmas. I love it!! Thank you for your ministry.
So it's a selfish sin for a baby that God gave you to want milk so it doesn't starve to death? What a rotten sinner. This is actually insane and I would probably change churches over something that asinine.
It's the same mindset that an orphan is a sinner because they want to be held or that the poor want food.
@@Arvak777 even though our precious Lord told us to clothe them and love them. People have lost their minds.
It’s weird that infant animals do the same… should we conclude that is their “sin nature” coming out? Animals have sin now?
I agree with you, and everyone in this thread. And I'm not challenging, but I'm actually asking a question or 2 to learn. And I welcome anyone to share.. So of course, I agree that infants don't go to hell. And when they're crying for milk in the middle of the night it Isn't wrong, selfish nor does it make them sinful. But what about kids who are a little older? And they pretty much seem to be born selfish and not wanting to share and obey etc. And they have to be taught to share and obey etc. Wouldn't that show that they're born sinners? And where does sin come from If we're not born sinners? We are obviously all sinners. Christ died for the sin of the whole world. I know Warren did a series on this. And I haven't watched all of it yet. ( I did watch a few videos) And I should make the time To watch the rest... but I thought I would ask you guys. Thanks in advance.
Warren, this was a masterful treatment! I've watched you interact with Dr. Flowers on Soteriology 101. I appreciate you speaking up so righteously for the character of God!
Thank you!
so they just ignored God sovereignty in salvation ........ how is that defending God ..............
The reason I left calvinism is because of my children. It gave me an insight into what I was believing was horrendous..
This was couple of months ago.
While having family meal, we were duscusssing about being saved. My children asked my husband(still a string Calvinist) how do I become saved?
My husband replied, "I don't know if God has chosen you to be saved, maybe or maybe not."
I was terrified by his answer. Because, in calvinism there was nothing I could do to save my children. It was Gods choice.
I am glad I prayed and searched the scriptures, followed many non-Calvinist videos. And God brought me out of Calvinism totally.
I feel so free, assured about my salvation, and share with my children the good news, which is for everyone.
Good Calvinists will not go straight to election when asked about the way to salvation (repentance and faith in Jesus, new creature in Christ etc)
It's actually a Muslim thing to not know if God will save you or not (if Allah wills or not).
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
If you truly believe in Jesus Christ then Calvinism using the Bible will tell you that God chose to give you saving faith, you can be assured of your salvation by biblical truths. Christian parents can try and also pray that their children will share their faith but not all do. Parents should teach their faith to their children still
This is like a person asking about dinosaurs and the christian says the devil place the bones to trick us then making a youtube comment that this was the reason they switched to atheism@@Steven-hq3go
Glad you’re out of it. Your husbands response shows that unfortunately a Calvinists trust (despite what they say) is in election and not in Christs sacrifice and resurrection alone for salvation. This alteration to the basic Gospel is proof alone that Calvinism is a false teaching. We can all pray that the Holy Spirit reveals this to your husband.
@@Steven-hq3goSo “good Calvinists” pretend like Calvinism isn’t true and live their life as-if they believe a lie? To be a good Calvinist you must contradict Calvinism? That makes sense.
@@JohnK557Election, predestination isn't the first thing you teach someone about Jesus dying on the cross to pay for our sins, is all I was trying to say.
If you've repented and retirement believe knowing that God unconditionally choose you to bring you to faith ought to feel very grateful and love God more for
Shockingly no Calvinist seemed to realize that Warren’s comments were determined by God!
Do you guys still think this is funny? Really?
@@davevandervelde4799it’s not funny at all, it’s just a true statement about Calvinists. If anything it’s pretty sad
@@davevandervelde4799it’s not funny, just a logical implication of your system that you must address, but Calvinists don’t, they just say, “you think this is funny?” Or “ugh that’s getting so old.” Calvinists have to face the fact that anything they’re against is, according to their Calvinism, determined by God according to His will and good pleasure.
It’s not just meant to be funny.
It’s meant to point out an extremely obvious logical inconsistency.
It’s very similar to asking an Atheist who claims “there is no truth” the question “Is that statement true?”
Until Calvinists can actually answer their own inconsistency logically, we’re gonna keep heaping on the Kryptonite.
@@GhostBearCommander you’ll keep heaping on the Kryptonite as God ordained you to
“How deranged, how much can you sit there, and hold this book in your hands , and say you actually believe it. How far can you go in how you twist was it says?”
These words from his mouth, the irony is sublime.
Projecting on others, his guilt and shame, to escape detection and accountability.
That’s what happens when we make idols out of manmade doctrines. Even the Bible, and seemingly biblical doctrines.
The man has the self-awareness of a cucumber.
I love how Warren, Flowers, and all these other guys are always calm and collected in their responses, while White and this other guy are always aggressive and hostile in theirs. Like a kid who was just insulted on the playground. Goes to show who's handling this with a lot more maturity.
Yes, I found the comparison of these men’s composure versus the screeching estrotantrums of their detractors very striking.
👍
"But James didn't address the point of contention..." JW is good at this.
DW: James is VERY consistent about NOT addressing the actual contention! :-D
But James White can not know the point of the contention, since that to is a theological matter and thus a spiritual truth.
Total Depravity does exist but it's only the Calvinism of Calvinists. Seems they cab not rightly understand spiritual truth else they would leave this horrible theology that impugnes our Holy God of Love.
@@yllowbird DW: Something that is critical to understand about Calvinism - is that it is a belief system in conflict with itself.
Calvinism is predominantly a doctrine of divine malevolence.
Calvinist leaders are smart enough to know people are not going to embrace a doctrine of divine malevolence.
They have to somehow SELL it as a doctrine of divine benevolence.
In order to do that - they have to HIDE those aspects of the doctrine which are malevolent toward the creature.
Calvinism's TULIP - is designed for that purpose.
So the "T" in the TULIP is designed to HIDE the fact that in Calvinism - the state of nature - including every man's nature - at every nano-second in time - is 100% meticulously predestined.
And the state of every man's nature - at every nano-second in time - cannot possibly be other than what Calvin's god decreed it to infallibly be.
And man is give NO SAY and NO CHOICE in the matter.
So it is best to see Calvinism's TULIP as a marketing strategy designed to hide what they don't want you to see - in order to make the product appear acceptable.
Dr. James white have dangerous conclusion 😮 in all his debate with Dr. Lf
Calvinist indignation at the accurate portrayal of their system is the champaign of victory. 🍾🥂🏆
As beautifully stated as it is true!
Yes these two false teachers were dragged into the light and started to melt like the Wicked Witch of the North.
Ironically, I'm beginning to think it's destiny that God would eventually stop tolerating Calvinism and bring their errors to light and rebuke by the Church
@@SugoiEnglish1 Calvinists are not a monolithic group on this subject. James White holds that some infants are non-elect, just like adults. He's been very clear and honest about it.
I LOVE IT, we're standing up to these emotionally fragile pulpit bullies!
Polish people are listening you guys. Keep doing a good work 👏 Leighton and Warren. Thanks
I'm glad they took it as a "personal" insult. They need to be called out as personally propagating heresy. So be it.
The problem with Calvinism, is that, even Calvinist don't like it.
Boom!
A reminder about David’s first infant son with Bathsheba.
“And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick. And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.“
2 Samuel 12:15, 22-23 KJV
David knew he couldn’t bring his son back, but that he would be reunited again with his infant son in Heaven with the Lord.
Where is heaven in that verse?
@@lessofme53
And where is hell?
@@lessofme53 Let's see how honest your Calvinist god has predestined you to be or if he has predestined you to lie.
Luke 18:15-16 KJV - 15 And *they brought unto him also infants,* that he would touch them: but when [his] disciples saw [it], they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, *Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.*
Does Jesus say that the kingdom of God belongs to children and infants?
Ooohhh yeah, great point - thank you!
Your production quality just keeps going through the roof... Opening up with the infants floating in space and in their space suits was genius! God bless you, and may He keep using you and your talents for His glory, Warren ✝
Wow, thanks!
James White calling someone dishonest and that others are twisting the Word of God is just rich.
He's surrounded by mirrors, and he thinks his reflections are other people.
"Hence, even infants bringing their condemnation with them from their mothers womb, suffer not for another's, but for their own defect. For although they have not yet produced the fruits of their own unrighteousness, they have the seed implanted in them. Nay, their whole nature is, as it were, a seed-bed of sin and cannot therefore be but odious and abominable to God." The Institutes of the Christian Religion. Book II Chapter 1 Section VIII.
Compare that with Psalm 127:3 - "Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, The fruit of the womb is a reward."
Psalms 127:3 is a thanks to God for the blessing of offspring from God. It's not incompatible with Calvin's teaching on the fallen nature of mankind
@Steven-hq3go so God blesses couples with odious and abominable kids whose whole nature is a seed bed of sin and who may be only created for destruction? What a blessing.
DW: In Calvinism the creature cannot have an impulse in its brain that it can call "its own"
Every impulse is AUTHORED at the foundation of the world - which makes Calvin's god as its origin - and makes it the property of Calvin's god.
In Calvinism - the human brain simply functions as a passive container for impulses AUTHORED by Calvin's god which are decreed to infallibly and thus irresistibly come to pass.
The Calvinist is in a constant state of denial of this aspect of his doctrine
He has no emotional problem attributing "Good" impulses which infallibly come to pass to his god.
But he has a serious emotional problem attributing "Evil" impulses which infallibly come to pass to his god
He cherry-picks and denies those aspects of his doctrine which he finds unpalatable.
He is simply manifesting the typical human response to a doctrine of "Good-Evil"
@@Steven-hq3go Why would offspring be considered a blessing, though?
If John Calvin's view on infants is correct, shouldn't bringing a child into the world been seen as something sinful and wicked instead of a reward?
@@losnfjslefn8857 No because God can use infants like he can use us for good purposes. Just because infants inherit sinfulness due to our fallen nature does not make infants evil. A child cannot commit actual sin until they are older and capable of realising right from wrong.
The hope is also that Christian parents begot Christian children but this is not always the case.
This topic is what led me to question Calvinism and do more studying on the subject. You never went after a person but the logical implications of their theology.
Many calvinists don't defend the gospel of christ, they get angry when opposing their doctrine and defend the gospel of calvin. And this gospel is not "good news" by definition.
He did the same stuff to Ken Wilson (and everyone else). Keep up the good work Warren!
Calvinism=consistent contradictions…..
And consistent heresies
Fortunately you are wrong... Calvinism is consistent with biblical truth.. for you its foolishness...1 Corinthians 1:18-25
@@cinemadart I was a Calvinist for about 4 years and God predestined me to come out of the cult of Calvinism…..
Chapter and verse on infants…….ill wait………
@@polskigirl8547 You'll be waiting a long time because Calvinists don't use Scripture to inform their beliefs rather they use the teachings of long dead murdering megalomaniacs from the 16th century to twist whatever Scripture they can, to say whatever they need it to say, to affirm their already held philosophical commitments.
@@polskigirl8547 do you have Children?
So glad you are taking some of the pressure off us charismatics who normally bear the brunt of the condemnation from these self-righteous pharisees. welcome to the heretic club; you receive full membership immediately, and you dont even have to affirm our stance on the continuation of the gifts.
Matthew 18:10 KJV - Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Keep at it brother!
Thank you!!!
Well done Warren. You and I don’t always agree but this is a topic I think the same as you. You remain kind and level headed while calling out this doctrine of demons. To me it goes beyond poor theology because it attacks the very heart and character of God and makes Him to be a monster to the ones we love so deeply. To me it’s so blatantly demonic. Thank you for being bold and calling it out.
Glad we can lock arms on this issue!
If it's any issue that we as imagers made by the God of love as revealed in scripture should be vehemently opposed to is this doctrine of demons as infant domination!!!
The reasonable rebuttal to the outraged response is the most effective.
Been a Calvinist for 57 years. Always taught children are saved in death by our gracious Lord and Savior.
I stand with you in rebuking anyone who teaches any other.
Glad to have you with us! Reminds me of that Lord of the Rings meme...
"I never thought I'd die, side by side with a nonCalvinist."
"How about with a friend?"
"Aye, I could do that."
At what age are children culpable for their sin and need to repent and believe the gospel in order to be saved?
@@Steven-hq3go when, and to the degree, they know the law.
Jonah 4:11 The entire city of Ninevah were clueless, and God can make a sovereign decision to spare whomever he wants.
@@Steven-hq3go, Jesus said if you were blind (pertaining to knowledge) you would have no sin (Jn 9:41). Sin has always pertained to knowledge. When a child knows something is wrong and then does it, they are then guilty of breaking the law written on their hearts. That is when they are culpable for their sin.
@@sethmcmullen2332 you mention knowledge as well as the law of God written on our hearts. Do you believe people who have no access to the gospel are culpable for their sin? What about children in strange cultures where what is thought of as sinful by us is not by them? Are they guilty even though they lack mental knowledge or because they disobey the law written on their hearts?
John 9
Jesus Affirms His Deity
35Jesus heard that they had [j]put him out, and upon finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36He answered [k]by saying, “And who is He, [l]Sir, that I may believe in Him?” 37Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38And he said, “I believe, Lord.” And he worshiped Him. 39And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.” 40Those who were with Him from the Pharisees heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now that you maintain, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
I heard a Calvinist say that even unregenerate unborn children are damned. It doesn’t matter if those unborn babies are innocent. They have not had the righteousness of Christ imputed to them, so too bad so sad. Calvinism makes people believe horrible things about God.
What we may see as horrible could be just from God's perspective. I don't know if infants are saved, if so or not I accept either as right as it's God's choice and it's as creatures cannot moralise towards God.
If there are many saved infants in heaven that is to God's glory, if there aren't then that also is I think.
DW: We need to understand - terms like "Guilty" or "innocent" in Calvinism - are not what NORMAL Christians understand.
In Calvinism's conception of divine sovereignty - Calvin's god does not look down the corridor of time and *OBSERVE* what the creature will be or do - and then hold the creature accountable - because that would make Calvin's god a passive *OBSERVER* rather than the DETERMINER of whatsoever comes to pass.
Therefore in Calvinism the LABELS "Guilty" or "Innocent" are NOT DETERMINED by the creature or the condition thereof - because that would compromise divine sovereignty.
In Calvinism - the LABELS "Guilty" or "Innocent" are DETERMINED solely by Calvin's god's *GOOD PLEASURE*
So a baby can be born today - and Calvin's god can LABEL that baby "Guilty" for a tree falling in Africa 20 thousand years ago - if that is Calvin's god's good pleasure.
Calvin's god does not have to have a reason for condemning that baby to eternal torment in a lake of fire - other than his *GOOD PLEASURE*
That baby does not have to do anything or be anything to be LABELED "Guilty" because that would make the creature the DETERMINER rather than Calvin's god.
well he is either not understanding his own calvanism or you are misremembering it. There are no innocent babies because they're are no innocent people. Babies cry, they are impatient, they want the world to revolve around them, etc. There are lots of examples of sin inside babies. This is because they are born in Adam, in Adam all die. When Adam obeyed the serpent he made himself a slave to Satan (Rom. 6:16). And slaves do not give birth to freemen but to slaves, slaves of sin and death. There is also the verse in Ec. 7:20, there is no righteous person. I don't think God sends babies to hell because it says in the Bible He does not, but babies are not innocent. Children are often incredibly sinful and cruel.
Calvinist ideas see man in the darkest of way. In ways that Christ Himself has never looked at man and this way and have made them to hate the creating inspiration which God has endowed humanity by despising mans artistic drive which is the creation of what is good
I had this exact conversation with a Calvinist who flat told me yes some of them do go to hell. This was when I realized that calvinism isn't just another biblical theology but a cult. They litteraly worship John Calvin himself. That is the only explanation why any so called "Christian" can just accept that God sends some babies to hell and why they scream heretic evertime someone disagrees with Calvin Almighty.
Well done. Thank you for taking time to address this issue and God bless you! Nice editing too! Good content all around.
I appreciate that!
A real classic coming from James!
And tons of comments on Marlons reaction video are on our side
Brother just wanna say God bless and I love you as a brother in Christ I pray a lot for you so that you continue strong in the faith
I just found your content! Love the video! I myself came out of a Calvinist church ( I never was a Calvinist), but the fact that I disagreed with them, I was never accepted, so we finally left after two years of no community
Brother same. I was a member for two years and I was the only non Calvinist there.
It’s like they want to hold the view that their children may be eternally reprobate, but then get angry at someone else pointing out that may be the case on their view.
That is the thing! They don't like this being exposed because on some level they know it makes them look like sick demented fools!
Which they are.
Truth in Love
@@SugoiEnglish1 I guess you have a selective memory of what you block from your Calvinist mind. Calvi- god hates almost every infant that dies because Calvin says so.
(John Calvin Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)
God arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death and are to glorify him by their destruction......... That includes infants!
(John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5)
“…salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it.”........... That includes infants!
The insanity of Calvi-god is that even the Calvinist has to admitt that Calvi-god doesn't love them either! Calvi-god just decided not to destroy them for his twisted pleasure like he does the majority of Pinocchio people he created.
At least have the guts to defend your Calvi-god system!!
Truth in love
@@SugoiEnglish1 that’s only a falsehood if no Calvinist holds to it. Many do and view it as a necessary consequence of their theology. Sorry son.
Unbelievers: Promote abortion.
Calvinists: Promote a view of God throwing babies into hell.
The act of promoting one, or both, is evil. But forgive me if I call the latter one worse.
Warren I have gone down deep in the comments section and have noticed that I haven't seen even one Calvinist Troll down there doing damage control! This one topic is so powerful that not even the great Calvinist Warrior Troll "Manny" is willing to defend it.
Well done Warren!! (your production quality is excellent)
Truth in love
I had virtually the same worrying discussion with my (now ex ) pastor. Who after he told me that God plans the rape and murder of children using compatabilism 😱😱that he would accept if his children who are now young, when they became ‘of age’ rejected Christ and were condemned to hell. I can’t believe he followed this up with but when he got to heaven that every tear would be wiped from his (own) eyes!!! He thought that was acceptable!!
I really enjoy the way you articulate the heresy of Calvinism. Thank you.
Not all children of Christian parents become or stay Christians, this is evident just by observing the world I think. Christ died for our sins and by believing in him our sins are paid for and we no longer receive the just punishment of eternal damnation.
I can understand you would want children to be saved but if they reject him they aren't saved. If they are elected they will believe before they die.
@@Steven-hq3go well, therein lies the crux of it all. You believe election means election to salvation as decreed by God for some, but not most, before the foundation of the world. I can tell you that if a child of mine rejected God as you put it (but you really mean, God made for reprobation) then there is no comfort in knowing God planned and decreed it with himself. Rather that a child had the same chance to accept or believe as I did. Also I can tell you from sad experience that some children grow up being taught Calvinism. Then when they work out themselves how unbiblical and inane it all is, then they turn away and become atheistic.
@@7CorgiGirl another way of putting it rather than decree of reprobation is that God in his will has chosen to extend his grace, love and mercy to turn a sinner into a saint.
People turn away from Jesus, the Bible, God, Christianity, religion (and may return) not simply because of Calvinism but from disbelief and sin, not all seeds are sowed equal.
I'm not really sure at what stage to introduce Calvin teachings as I became a Christian as an adult. Just teach the Bible and explain what verses mean most accurately.
@@Steven-hq3go hey Steven I’m not sure if you are a Calvinist or just considering the teachings of Calvin. The only advise I can give you, is before you agree with such as White and MacArthur Lawson etc. study non Calvinist teachings alongside it. I was a Calvinist for many years. Believed it, argued it and defended it. However I’ve come to see the error of it. The heresy and the different gospel it brings.
@@Steven-hq3go _"another way of putting it rather than decree of reprobation is that God in his will has chosen to extend his grace..."_
Why Calvinists always do this? Promoting the palatable side of their doctrines and ignoring horrendous side because they're ashamed of it? Promote the full claim: God first decreed to reprobate everyone in eternity past, then decreed to arbitrarily save a select few.
_"People turn away from Jesus, the Bible, God, Christianity, religion not simply because of Calvinism but from disbelief and sin..."_
But in Calvinism that's because God decreed for them to turn away from Him and have unbelief and sin, nothing else! People are born God haters because that's what God decreed for them to be, and they have no say in the matter. So yes, Calvinism is the reason they do all of that if Calvinism is true.
_"I'm not really sure at what stage to introduce Calvin teachings..."_
You should never introduce Calvin teachings to anybody! (Gal.1:8). Stick to the Bible.
If the God of Calvinism is real we have a moral duty to oppose him. His position is unsustainable and a God of Agape love will eventually overthrow him. I've run the simulations. This is certain.
I've been pondering this question for a week now: what is the hyper-Calvinist understanding of agape love? Do they preach and teach it in the same way---or at all---as it is preached and taught in non-Calvinist churches?
@@tmorganriley Cognitive dissonance to the rescue here. You will often get an accurate definition of "Agape" when you ask a Calvinist. They will also acknowledge the bible teaches God is love ("agape"). When pressed about what motivates God they will insists God seeks his own glory. When pressed further they will insists God seeks his own glory with total disregard for who gets destroyed in the process. This is by definition selfishness and in fact the opposite of "agape." However, when asked if they believe God is selfish they will (sometimes) insist "selfish" is pejorative so it's inappropriate to use this word to describe God. I've had this conversation with the head of the theology department at Moody Bible Institute. It's all cognitive dissonance.
The primary issue I have with systems of theology like this is that they are focused on using particular sets of words rather than communicating useful or accurate information.
AMen, Brother!!!!!! Thank you for your love for God and His Word. Thank you for bringing up very hard issues. You are spot on in your analysis on Calvinism. And Praise the Lord for the wonderful Scriptures you gave at the end of this video !!!!!! God's Word speaks for itself !!!!! Hallelujah!!!!
Great editing as always!
I appreciate that! Thanks!
This video was well done Warren. It’s ironic how inconsistent Calvinists become especially when they think about their kids.
Yea I remember Warren debating Matt Slick, who was affirming infant damnation, and then realized he lost a child, and immediately backtracked that position to babies go to heaven, it did not even apologize or acknowledge his 180 degree turn, once his children were considered.
Warren was gracious not to call him out on that, he let Matt do it to himself with silence.
Which showed how unbiblical and dreadful infant damnation doctrine is.
@@Tigerex966so he didn’t change his mind based on theology, but on emotions… got it. There are zero verses in the Bible that say when babies die they go to heaven. Can you also tell me then at what millisecond do I need to start begging my child to accept Jesus. Cause they are now accountable for sins and will now go to hell? Also if said child when they turn 15-16 and now say they renounce Christ and then live as an atheist in sin the rest of there life when they die at 68 are they still saved and good to go because they said they loved Jesus when they were 8?
@@kirkchurchil8216awesome you are now disagreeing with hyper calvinist matt slick who used to believe that as well.
And that not true my brother.
Even calvinust Matt Slick concluded babies and his dead infant child gi to be with the Lord, not to hell.
Based on the word of God, newer saying babies are in hell which contradicts john Calvin and others, instead the opposite is true for the young ones.
And yes the emotions of a father for all of his children lost before they reach the age of accountability for whatever reason, so both is the correct answer, and that's ok we are both logical and emotional, and at to es it's not either or as both can be true simultaneously
.I suggest you tell him he is wrong, and his infant dead child has a greater chance of being in hell than heaven .
Mhe has an email, we dught and channel, should not be hard to do
Reread the Bible and that of dead babies and what Jesus said about children.
Jesus is the final judge of the heart I telect and salvation and age of accountability, not you certainly not me, I suggest you ask him and search the scriptures, as for each of us it's different when we truly knew right from wrong intellectually.
In fact I will reverse it on you show me a detailed book chapter verse of God torturing babies in hell, doomed from the womb as John Calvin says or vipers and diapers as voddie says
.ill wait...
@@Tigerex966 what verse states babies are exempt from original sin?
Jesus always make good examples of children
Children of wrath.
Children of disobedience.
??
@@rossduncan4187, Jesus called adults children of wrath and children of disobedience. "Child" did not relate to their age or being young, but it was about them being offspring (the literal use of child).
Here's what Jesus said:
"Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 19:14, Lk 18:16)
"Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein." (Lk 18:17)
"Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 18:3)
@@sethmcmullen2332 Only one of those verses is directed at young children. Just one. The others are for adults to be like children.
@@rossduncan4187, and? I was painting Jesus' view of children. Is Jesus' mind, you have to BECOME like a child to enter heaven. Was Jesus telling his followers to become wicked and depraved to enter the kingdom of heaven? Also, you have a double standard. You accused my verses of not being about young children, but about adults. EVERYTHING you said was about adults and had NOTHING to do with children. It's a dishonest, straw-man argument.
@@sethmcmullen2332 No my friend, your premise is wrong, you've assumed that children are good, that's contrary to the scripture, what The Lord Jesus calls us to is to be humble as a child, to believe like a child, but you presume that all that children are is good, not so, but only the qualities of obedience and humility.
Good job warren! Calvinists always get super upset when you feed their own conclusions back to them.
It’s ok for calvinists to say stupid things like Hebagan ... but to say CalviPagan is “WOW! Way to far!!!”
Solid work here Warren! This group of vipers deserve both barrels of scrutiny and reproch...
LOL what a brutal destruction of poor Marlon, love the video editing as always
Marlon is a good guy, he just has some bad doctrine and reacted poorly.
@@IdolKiller Well I know Marlon personally and while I would agree he is a good guy, loves the Lord and is a good husband father (I helped him move into his house) like many hardened Calvinist's he refuses to humble himself and look at scripture without his tulip glasses. He tricked my sibling into Calvinism who became a full 7 pointer (tulip+double predestination+hard determinism) and took me 4 years to help him get out. Thankfully my sibling did reject the system.
Marlon like Dr. White have their Calvin team tattooed on their chest now and I don't think any level of reasoning or Biblical exegesis will change that, they simply have closed their minds and souls. I have written multiple articles just for Marlon and even though we had a personal relationship at one point in the past, he never read them nor honestly or openly considered their merits.
The same for Dr. White, he never actually listens nor reads yours or Flower's actual full comments and content, because he would have to actually address it. I'm not aware of White doing a comment by comment review of Flowers like Flowers does to white.
We all know the reason why.
I can see Calvinism is crumbling down everyday and i really enjoy it 😂
Warren I’m glad you didn’t apologize. Thank you for doubling down. This view of infant damnation is from the pit.
Shocker! JW failed to address the point of contention.
The consistent Calvinist view on infants is both infantile and infanticidal...
I will alert Jonathan Edwards. You know one of the greatest theologian, if not the greatest thinker ever. And you are?
@@rogervincent2092 Oh, no! Whatever will I do? There's an Calvinist invoking one of the "DCPs"/Dead Calvinists on Pedestals that Calvinists' man-centered theology worships like pagans worship their demigods and Roman Catholics worship their "saints"! It's as terrifying as Mormons invoking Joseph Smith, or JWs invoking the Watchtower!
As for who I am, I'm someone who theologically runs circles around Luciferian loons like Edwards, not because I'm that good (I'm nobody in particular), but because they're that bad! The "god" they worship is morally indistinguishable from the devil, is contrary to everything Scripture in context reveals about God, and is constantly divided against himself. The average toddler could make up an imaginary superhero better than the "god" of Calvin, Edwards, Sproul and the rest of the DCPs.
@@rogervincent2092greatest thinker ever? !!! 🤣
@ravissary79 Ya, my friend. He is arguably the greatest theologian thinker ever, but even if he wasn't. He is one of them. And again, you are?
@@rogervincent2092it isn't even arguable unless you mean a couple guys arguing for it this make it arguable.
Amd you are? Apparently a respecter of persons.
It is sometimes hard to see how James White is truly saved since he apparently has very little love in his heart towards his brother (1 John 4:20)
Even though Scripture clearly states God didn't decree babies to be thrown into the fire, nonetheless Calvinist dogmatically affirm he decreed it. I don't see what the fuss is from their position.
"Gah!!!! Arrrrrr!!! I am so angry I can not believe what you just said. How can you be like that Warren! I just can't! You are a liar!!!"
"I feel for you I really do. I mean I would be just as frustrated if I had to defend as illogical, unreasonable, amoral and unscriptural as Calvnist theology." - Mic Drop -
HECK yes. Warren, God bless and strengthen you for calling heinous evil for what it is. And Marlon - what good is it what CalvinISTs say, if CalvinISM teaches something else? The system itself determines what is consistent with it - that these people are inconsistent with the system should stand as evidence they should abandon the system.
These isolated clips of White melting down are pure gold.
I didn't see any meltdown
too bad for you @@Steven-hq3go
it never ceases to amaze me, how dishonest Calvinists are.
To even be a Calvinist you must be dishonest with yourself first. A person who is willing to be dishonest with themselves will most assuredly do the same to others…….
I think it comes down to misanthropy, they denigrate mankind (God's greatest visible created being) so much that they have to concede Jesus' as savior rather than recognizing it was valuable at all to get one, which is the opposite of felix culpa.
*"APOLOGIZE, WARREN."*
They gonna look mighty confused when the boss music kicks in.
People don't point this out enough but the Calvinists greatest defense for their position is "I'm offended!"
So no Calvinist defends their position with God-breathed scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17)? Their "greatest" defense is they're offended? No, this particular situation had Warren making a sweeping statement against people. I understand it completely. When I had African-American Christians in the churches talking about "white" privilege among Caucasian Christians, I asked some personally did they think white people held racist views they didn't even know about. They said yes. So I asked if that also included my wife, who is also white. They tried to tell me it wasn't personal, and yet since my wife fit their category, then it meant they thought that way about her personally even while we were having fellowship with them. So making a sweeping statement about Calvinists equating their election and their children's potential non-election to Baal child worship is actually an attack on a person. In this case, the offense is warranted.
@@2timothy23 Of course Calvinists use Scripture to make their points. I am simply suggesting that their absolute best defense (that is so often used) is taking offense. And your taking offense
and misrepresentation of what Warren was saying is proof.
Now discarding the man-centered concerns of the individual souls involved, I think the vast majority of us are extremely concerned with the version of god you are presenting.
In complete contrast to the totality of Scripture, the Calvinist version of god has irresistibly given the vast majority of all humans a sinful nature in order to condemn them to Hell for eternity for his glory and to display his power to those he did choose.
In contrast to 2 Peter 3:9 and literally all demonstrations of His character in Scripture, the god of Calvinism literally has the attributes of Satan who "desires" to eternally destroy people for his own glory. For the Calvinist however, when it's from Satan it is bad but when their version of god does it is good.
And even from you world-view, the people you are complaining about believe what they believe because the Calvinist god wants them to believe that about all white people. they're just being and doing what they're preordained to be and do. Who art thou to reply?
The Calvinist has a mindset similar to the mindset of the chattel slave owners in the USA in the past. Ie, some people are inherently winners by virtue of some characteristic that’s out of their control (such as calvinistic election or being white) and there are some people who are inherently losers by some characteristic that’s out of their control (such as Calvinistic reprobation and being black). As such, the losers are condemned for things that are out of their control, and it’s supposed to be acceptable because that’s just the way that God made things.
It’s complete dirtbaggery. And, the Calvinists fake indignation demonstrated by White, Marlon, and others, is as genuine as the fake humility they demonstrate when they claim they are in the elect.
Revelation 20:12-13 (HCSB)
I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books. Then the sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead; all were judged according to their works.
The unborn, infants, the severely mentally handicapped, etc. don’t have any works. Therefore, such cannot be damned.
Calvinism essentially teaches that babies are born with an invisible stamp on their soul that says either “heaven” or “hell.”
I believe that God is not bound by laws of the universe that he created such as time. Everything that will happen is known to God and everyone decided (elected) by God's mercy be given the gift of repentance and faith in Jesus Christ
It's quite probable that infants who die are all elect of God but not all older children who have the mental capacity. However many multitudes according to God's judgement is good.
Listing to James White is like listening to a blind man think to teach colors.
And get VERY offended at anyone who dares to suggest that his position that "orange and pink go perfectly together" may not be 100% correct in all circumstances...
A great analogy!!
Was James White determined not to look humble?
I don’t understand why they are bothered. If a person is dammed by their theology, this would include a child.
Yet another masterpiece by Idol Killer. This was very well done!
Thank you!
Wow Warren, infants are innocent!? just appalling! 😂
The Calvinist response is hilarious.
Typical.
We all know these guys would be hugging John Calvin's skirt and screaming at you on the pire in Geneva.
Love you brother, keep holding strong against their snarling.
You are truly representing the Lord well.
Calvinists like James White can only lash out. He cannot defend his viewpoint on reprobation of infants.
I really enjoyed this, thank you!
"I would like to take this chance to apologize...to absolutely nobody - Conor McGregor" - Mcgrew
thank you! it is so beautiful!!!
Thank you. What a good response
Glad you enjoyed it!
They respond like political liberals do when they are asked to defend their positions.
Every Calvinist or reformed thinker (that supports election) with children, (regardless of their child’s age), has to ask or wonder if their children are elect. This by default proves their faith/hope for Salvation is in election and not Christs sacrifice and resurrection alone. This twist of the gospel by definition, makes Calvinisim a false teaching.
Great point. The work of Christ was merely window dressing. Without election, what does it matter?
The same SPIRIT is exactly right. Calvinism springs forth from a SPIRIT of error, just like other cults!
Warren, once again, technology and truth hand-in-hand can be very humorous 👍🏻👍🏻👏👊🏼
As white goes on his infantile tirade about his phantom strawman, and you interject the rock ‘n’ roll hymn, I was dying 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The Spirit of the Antichrist. Lol I love that double down
It really is, as it stems from Total Depravity which is a denial of the Biblical incarnation per Hebrews 2:14-18 and 1 John 4:2-3
@@IdolKiller I don't think a single one of these Calvinists apologists would debate you an infant damnation. So sometimes you have to use inflammatory statements to make a point
Definitely not compatible with Maximally Perfect Being-theology! Wow....😮🤦♂️
I find so many Calvinist conveniently inconsistent with their gnostic theology.
Stay away from Calvinism.
There is no freewill so why does James White find fault?
What’s outrageous, unbelievable, and disgusting, is Calvinist and anyone else that teaches the damnation of the unborn and a child! That’s appalling, and violently dishonest to not address it.
1:46 -- That's the same kind of spirit & mindset that the ancient worshippers of pagan deites would engage in when they would sacrifice their children to Ba'al."
And I'm sure many of them wept for more than 3 days.
Sincere question: how can a Calvinist be confident they are actually elect? When do they find out?
They believe they're elect, because they believe they're elect... they have confidence their belief is valid as evidenced by their continued believing they're elect.
I can’t believe how horrible you are… for saying babies don’t go to hell? How could you dare show mercy to innocent infants!
All jokes aside, I can’t believe people actually believe babies are hellbound and evil!
Wouldn't infant salvation for all mean that abortion is good as it prevents them from growing up and 'rejecting Christ' ?
What gets me is all the chaos in the “Christian” church. So many are anything but Christian’s. and by that I mean I’m a Calvinist or I’m a catholic or I’m Orthadox or whatever. So many. It’s brutal. And I struggle with so much understanding and what is right. I know Michael hieser is my favourite teacher and has made sense of so much for me so I thank God for him. May God bless you all and guide you. It’s all Jesus for a believer. His sacrifice. His victory. His righteousness. His faith. It’s all imparted to the believer. The Bible says so. When I tell my children the gospel as I understand it I tell them apart from Christ we are cursed, when you believe in Him and put your faith in him then that’s the line. If you add anything else to that then it’s not a gift, it’s not good news and it’s not grace. And unfortunately we will sin until the day we die. And I struggle every damn day with sin. And I lose more than I win. But I thank God for Jesus. When I don’t know what to pray there is one who intercedes for me. When I sin I have an advocate. And I look forward to the day all things are made right and we can all have clarity and understand. God bless you. ✌🏻
Keep your eyes on Jesus and off of sinful men! Keep reading the Holy Bible. I prefer the KJV. I totally agree with you it is crazy out there.
Under the traditional Calvinistic paradigm, we are told to accept and to love the will of God and every detail within it, that is the same will that contains the eternal decree of the death, damnation, and eternal torment of infants in order to increase the magnitude of God’s glory.
Under the Pagan paradigm, we are told to accept and to want the will of the gods for our lives to come about concerning every detail of our lives, that is the same will that demands the torment and death of infants.
Under paganism, the gods demand infant death and torment for their own glory, but it isn’t something that will necessarily come about.
Under Calvinism, God does not demand, rather he invariably decrees and meticulously plans infant death and torment for his own glory.
The symmetry is clear. In fact, it’s worse under Calvinism.
That makes perfect sense when one considers that everything that sets Calvinism apart from Biblical Christianity flows from the pagan religion known as Manichean Gnosticism, parts of which were introduced to mainstream Western Christianity in the early 5th Century by Augustine, Calvin's greatest idol.
God is far better than we realize! Amen Brother.
i have had Calvinist tell me babies go to hell in these guys very own comment section so they have no ground to stand on or need to inform their own audience this isn't the case
I love that you and Leighton quote Calvinist and go back to the sources. It makes me wonder if calvinists even understand Calvinism.
This is why i quit listening to Paul Washer a very long time ago...its disgusting. Im an independant baptist now.
Washer is an arrogant narcissist who thinks he is humble.
I’m really glad you did not give them even an inch with this one. Hold to it.
CalvinISTS do tend to get really reflexively twitchy and angry when *CalvinISM* (or ideas contained therein) is compared positively to paganism of any stripe - gnosticism, panentheism, neoplatonism, and yes, even Moloch, Baal, Chemosh, Vishnu, Zeus, Ra, Ku'Kul'Kan, et. al. Their faux outrage at those doing the comparison ought to be turned into actual outrage at source of the internal critique - the hellish idea the system propagates. JMO. Thanks for a great video Warren!
You could represent every perspective they actually have then still get told youre misrepresenting them or dont understand calvinism, either theyre purposely leading you to represent them falsely or just cant explain it well enough either way they shouldn't be upset by the flak they get for not explaining it well enough
19:45 AMEN, God is far better than people realize. Calvinists do proclaim God is good... It's just that, within their system, they can't say "how".... because it's a 'mystery'.🤷🏻♂️
Warren, you hit the spot man! 😂
What amazes me about Christians in general is the disconnect between personal reality and their doctrine. If they can intergrate what they believe to their reality they could live a changed life, not just have a pet doctrine and preaching material. Also, if it was real to them they would reconsider what they preach because they would see the practical implications of their doctrines.
LOVE the quotes! Well placed after the pot shots.
Excellent, great job on exposing this
Eloquently explained brother!
Unlike the nonsense cloud of dust that came out as an explanation for their disagreements, which was no explanation at all!Unfortunately they just used their platform to mislead their audience. Sad…
As an ex-Calvinist-praise God-if Calvinism isn’t demonic I don’t know what is. It’s outrageous. Satan comes as an angel of light.
We don't need satan when we have the god of Calvinism. He actually is a bit redundant!!
@@DonieleEdwards under calvinism, satan is just another puppet in Gods toybox
@@unitedstates3068 yeah, that's another way of looking at it
True. In Calvinism God is the author of evil and the devil is just another victim
Thankfully calvinism is on life support
This is how things like this get handled. Well done, sir.