Two easy fixes for 3D printer temperature swings - PID autotune
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- Sometimes your 3D printer may experience temperature fluctuations on the hot end, which can affect surface quality and even lead to clogs. Many people ran into this problem when upgrading from their standard Creality board to an MKS Gen L.
Fortunately there are two fixes that are very easy to implement. Best of all, one is free and the other will only cost you a dollar or so. In this video, I take you through both step by step.
Method 1 is utilising Marlin’s PID autotune to hone the parameters for your specific printer. Method 2 is installing a smoothing capacitor on the 5V line of the mainboard to alleviate the problem.
I didn’t actually have this problem on my board but there have been many requests on the MKS Gen L guide. Thanks to Nick Skinner for contacting me with potential solutions to this problem found at: reprap.org/forum/read.php?13,...
I showed Octoprint as my console of choice here, but you could also use Simplify3D, Pronterface or even the Arduino IDE.
PID wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_con...
PID Autotune Marlin reference: marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M303.html
Low ESR capacitor shopping list video: • Ultimate Low-ESR Capac...
Suitable capacitor from Jaycar Australia: www.jaycar.com.au/1000uf-10vd...
Buy quality and affordable filament from X3D. Buy 3, get 1 free and a free sample pack with every order: www.x3d.com.au
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Your channel is by far the most useful 3D printing channel. I honestly have no clue where you find the time and motivation to make these videos. Please keep it up, you are the best thing that could have happened to the 3D printing community :)
Have a look at Tom Sanladerer or CNC Kitchen
I went to Reddit and found a thread about this guy and everything they said about him is why I unsubbed him so I am glad I wasn't the only one out there who noticed. If you really think this is the most useful then you are a total newb and haven't checked around. This moron doesn't dig deep enough when he should and over blows it when it doesn't need to be and he doesn't really come back and answer anything. Careful using his "fixes" as I have spotted a couple on other videos that were doozies.
The Best Stooge So educate us. If you’re that interested in saving us newbs then please be specific and give us actual information please.
@@theonlymudgel
I guess he can't.
I wonder why people like him get their jollies from thinking they are superior and know secrets mere mortals like us can only hope to acquire.
This channel, and specifically this video, was recommended by Angus of Makers Muse. That says a lot.
@@Taconiteable
Also check out Makers Muse and CHEP
Absolutly been fighting with this issue on an older Tevo Tornado running a stock MKS 1.4 board that i upgraded to Klipper. The hotend was all over the place. Replaced the hotend, sensors, heater, Tried every trick with the configuration and no luck. I had some of these caps, tossed one on last night and re ran a PID auto tune.. The temps are absolutly STABLE and the lines is flat. The PID controller actually modulating it's self instead of just turning ON/OFF and jumping all over.
Thanks SO MUCH, It was driving me crazy and I don't see a lot of info about this problem. This is the first time I'm hearing about it and I thought I read everything about the issue.
Hi Michael, thank you very much for the video. After nerve crushing "biippp" sound at least 10 consecutive times, I changed the Thermistor of my ender 3 v2 neo 3 times, in addition to changing the heater cartridge. But I had the same fluctuation issue until seeing your video. None of the other videos or the user guides were mentioning about calibration codes.
This worked like a charm! Thank you.
So glad to hear someone else confess to be an electronics part hoarder.
same here lol
Dear Michael, this particular video really saved me tonight. After my first complete revision of my Ender’s hotend the temperature didn’t really get stable. With the new calibration parameters, the system is usable agein. So please receive a very big thank you from Frankfurt, Germany ⚫️⚪️❤️
I have known from the beginning (one month ago) that this would become a quite challenging hobby with struggles involved. Thanks for sharing your experience with all uf us!
One tip for PID tuning from my experience: do it with filament inside the hotend, loaded, ready to print. After initially calibrating my PID, starting a print I ran into thermal runaway (being too low) because the filament cooled the hotend and it couldn't keep up. So do it with filament inside. Happy printing! And thanks Michael for the great videos!!
Thank you so much! I used the built in autotune button through the octo server and it completely threw everything off! My ender 6 would fault out after and i even tried a new thermistor. This procedure cleared everything up with the stock heater and thermistor.
When i have a problem and your videos come up i know its clear skies.
Thank you, I have been printing for 2 years. THis is the first time I ran into this. I was about to change my hotend until I found this. The PID command worked
Hi,i want to say "Thank You".I build in a new capacitor and my temperatures are now a lot more stable.Greetings from Germany👍🤗
Fantastic guide Michael. I've replaced a couple of capacitors for exactly this reason but I've always soldered them direct to the board. Your way makes it a lot easier for those not comfortable with soldering. Superb!
You're an absolute legend, this fixed my problem immediately and helped me out so much. I was so scared I was not gonna find a fix to this issue.
This is perfect timing, my printer started fluctuating this weekend after changing the nozzle and the tube. I’ve heard about doing the PID tune but when people try to explain it it sounded so complicated, watching you made it so easy. Thanks for the video 👍
Thank you so much for this video! I was struggling with temperature swings for months and couldn't fix it with PID autotune (and other solutions I found).
I just stumbled upon your video, ordered low esr capacitor and... temperatures are stable!
You've got a new patreon supporter!
Incredible - for years my temperatures fluctuated and didnt give decent PID routine results. That capacitor is amazing ! Temperature sits right on the target. And I can now run my M303 at the higher temps I use
Thank you so much for this vid ! I had big temperature swings even after doing the PID autotune. The 1000uf cap did the trick ! Perfect !
Thank you so much! I was able to fix my issues with temperature fluctuation using the second method with the capacitor. This was really easy to follow and my printer is working so much better now!
I wish I found this a week ago! Was given an MKS Gen-L V1.0 to replace my dead Anet A8 board. I've been unsuccessfully fighting severely fluctuating hot end temps for a week until I soldered in an $0.85au 1000uf low ESR cap from Jaycar. Temps are now rock solid!
Thank you so much! :D
That works absolutely beautifully !!!!! I was a little skeptical about this but I tried it anyways since the capacitors were so cheap. I am amazed at the difference !! I haven't seen it fluctuate either way more than half a degree !! I have a MKS Robin Nano on a Sapphire Pro that has the same problem but worse, and I am going to try this on that printer too. Thank you so much !!
Thanks for this great tutorial, I managed to sort 2 printers out in one day thanks to your PID tune!
I had this problem after upgrading an ender 3 to a gen L board I got from Amazon. Google lead me to the capacitor fix, which did solve the problem.
Great video and research behind it as always! Very useful indeed
Apparently, this also happens when upgrading from a 12V system to 24V. I built my 3d printer from scratch, also using an MKS Gen L as motherboard then converted to a 24V system. The 1000uF capacitor fixed it! Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure about my cap if it's low ESR and I'm really in a pinch so I tested out these generic capacitors I also have been hoarding. It's working well so far.
Although there are many good 3D printing channel, Teaching Tech goes beyond with all the detail and technical background. This video helped me "fix" my Sovol SV01 problems and now I also understand the concept, thanks to your little rocket :)! Thanks!
Have a RAMPS 1.4 on Mega2560. Both my bed and hot end temps were fluctuating identically +/- 3 degrees at room temp. Tried out the capacitor using the AUX-2 GND/5V pins on the RAMPS. Worked like a charm! Thanks so much!
Life saver thanks! I guess my PID could keep up with the wild fluctuations but I have aAC bed now and SSR and needed to do slow PWM for it and then everything to super noisy and could not keep up. This made all the difference.
Thank you, worked for me on MKS Gen L V1.0
Thanks Michael, MKS Gen 1.4 also have this problem. I installed 470uf 25v LowESR cap and is now reading +-1deg temp difference from the target. Big improvement. Thanks very much.
Did you install the 25v capacitor on the 5v pins or did you fix it on the heater connectors ?
Absolutely love the rocket ship analogy. I don't think I'm going to be able to avoid using that in future to explain PID!
PID calibration fixed my problem. Thanks as always.
It was around +/- 4.5degree before calibration. Now it is around +/- 0.6degree.
Printer is Ender 3 pro v1.5
Mainboard is stock 4.2.2
So... Here I am 4 years later and I did a "recent" change of my hotend (on my Tevo Tornado V2), upgrading to a E3D v6. I have been baffled by the unstable temps and I did the capacitor on the 5v and gnd pins trick and it solved the problem. I have changed firmware so many times. Thanks for the well documented solution. I can't believe it took me this long to find it.
This fixed my Tevo, it was driving me crazy. Went to Klipper and could NOT get stable temps on the hotend no matter what. Even replaced it, the heater and sensor. Put on a cap and they are perfectly stable now!
Oh my god you saved me. I wasn't able to do any filament swaps because my hot end kept going 195-205. Now with the m303 it stays stable. I should have known to come here first been fighting it for months
This worked like a charm. Thank you so much.
Really usefull as usual!!! Thanks Mate!!
This solve my problem! Thanks Michael!
The temp flucs I am getting are exactly like the top image you showed. My lil ol Ender 3 is in need of TLC so I'll treat it to the 4.2.7 creality board and do the PID which hopefully will not only fix the fluctuations but let me use a BLT cos I am bored stiff with manual levelling LOL As always Michael your videos tell me exactly what I need to know. Thank you Sir.
Thank you the pid fixed my issue
For some reason my Ender 3 started temperature cycling before printing to the point where it wouldn't even start, the PID tune fixed it! Thanks!
Nice upgrade
Thanks for sharing 👍😀
Thanks its very easy to understanding, like your website.
dude, your a genius!! too bad you werent around doing this when i was in school. i wouldve took an entirely different path in life knowing that it was this easy understanding most electronic basics.
This saved me a lot of time.
A simple, zero-cost check: starting with the power supply, make sure ALL the power connections are tight! Especially the power supply, hot end, and bed heater. With thermal cycling, connectors can work loose over time, causing voltage drops and fluctuations. Same goes for thermistor/temp sensor connections -- make sure things are tight. While these aren't power hungry, a little electrical noise can cause big problems.
Hugely good advice here.
Fixed mine for a 20 hour print and now it's being very temperamental again
7:12 I never knew you identify the negative from the stripe. I love learning random useful things like this! Thanks.
This worked great, Thanks!
Brilliant tip. Thanks a million :)
Thanks, Michael for another great video!
Once again you save the day. Great video. Quick tip: you can also communicate w/ your printer using the Terminal window in the Arduino IDE (115200 baud)
I had this exact problem A 100uf 10v cap fixed it Thank you :)
Hey Michael, great video as always. Im looking for crimping pliers for dupont conectors , where did you get yours ? Are they ok for occasional crimping? They look like ones on Ebay but I have seen many mixed reviews. Just want to hear your opinion.
Useful content👍👍
Hey Michael, I was wondering if you give some tips on where to start learning about what each component on a circuit board (Like the mks gen L or.skr 1.3) does. I've been meaning to learn how to make a circuit board.
Thank you so much!
Thank you for your work. I have recently upgraded my D-Bot CoreXY design to include a new hot end and heated bed. The PID autotune of the hot end went very "smoothly". the heated bed tuning however seemed to produce largely varying results when repeated. My bed is made up of a Keenovo 110V 600W Silicon flexible heater with its supplied thermistor and a 1/4" thick MIC6 aluminum tooling plate bed. Therefore it has significant heating capacity and much more thermal mass than the PCB bed it replaced. Question I have for you or your readers in the know is how many iterations of the PID autotune procedure are recommended? I'm running a 10 cycle autotune, then updating the K values and running it again, and again... What is considered good enough?
Thank you soo much!!
Great advice, please check with new MKS Gen L V2.0 as well.
A high temperature thermal interface material does wonders for your nozzle. I use Deep Cool Z5 as it has the highest temps without breaking down I could find - 300C
great video as usual. this may be a dumb question but how do you get your screen so big like the temp area so long? mine is just in a box. I am using octoprint on google chrome windows 10.
There are some useful settings in the configuration.h file than can help solving temperature instability issues:
#define BANG_MAX 255 // Limits current to nozzle while in bang-bang mode; 255=full current
#define PID_MAX BANG_MAX // Limits current to nozzle while PID is active (see PID_FUNCTIONAL_RANGE below); 255=full current
Use them to lower the maximum power to the hotend or hotbed. 100% power is represented by 255, you could try 200, which is about 80% of the power. #define PID_MAX 200
Changing tuning current doesn't address temp ringing while printing.
@@bernardtarver Why not? Reducing the max power will at least reduce overshoot I was unable to get a stable temperature with autotune, until I reduced the maximum power
When looking into PID tuning the hotend, I noticed many people recommend switching the hotend cooling fan on so that it's tuned for that as intuitively it would make sense that the part cooling fan affects the hotend heating since the hotend is very close to the part - whether that's better or not in practice I'm not sure.
It absolutely makes sense to have the fan running and anything else that can effect the hotend ( silicon sock for example) Simply put ...Autotune tries to gauge the temp deviation between the desired temp ( set point) and actual temp ( measured temp) It then calculates a proportional response ( the P in PID) Also worth using auto tune at the temp you normally print at.
The hotend cooling fan is always on. The part cooling fan wont help with temp swings.
I meant to write part cooling fan both times.
Ideally you would need to be extruding as well during the autotune process. Ultimately the passage and heating of filament obviously has a large effect on the temp stability
@@bernardtarver Minor quibble: Some part cooling fans improperly blow onto the hotend assembly itself due to bad designs. Additionally, some hotend cooling fans blow right on the heater block instead of on the heatbreak/heatsink where they're meant to. Ideally neither would be the case, but here we are.
I purchased a new 4.2.7 "silent stepper" board and the sawtooth temperature fluctuations are ~10 ° C between +&-.
I can't rely on the printer because it got noticeably worse after printing a custom blower addition for the hotend fan.
I'll be trying the first option, and hoping I won't need the second, but am very happy to see that it's available in case the M303 coding doesn't fix the problem.
Thank you for making this video. How did you figure this out?
Hi Michael! awesome video. Do you know how to fix it on a new ender 3 v2? Im on my second week with the machine and im starting to have this issue, with random freezes due low temperature.
Thanks for the video. Would you know where I could find a set of 5V,GND pins for the capacitor upgrade on a Creality V2.2.1 motherboard?
I hope that you have a third option. I have replaced my complete hotend and am now using a cartridge thermistor. Heater cartridge power drawing from a MOSFET. Same control board. Set at 220 degrees, temperature cycles between 216.8 and 223.4 after PID Autotune. Have set the TEMP_BED_HYSTERESIS to 4 so that I can print. Temperatures above 224 give a wider temperature spread. Would be grateful for any suggestions how to fix this.
Hey Michael, thanks for the Video!
I have the same problem with the skr1.3 on my ender3. Tuning the pid values didnt helped. Any idea where to put the capaciator there? I am not the best one with electronics, so I thought I ask here before I kill my board. :D Thanks in advance!
I have a fun one. I’m building a diy IDEX printer and hotend 1holds temperature like a champ but the 2nd one oscillates wildly. I’ve swapped both boards, wires, thermistors, heaters, and tried switching between hotends. Nothing has worked so far. I’ll get some capacitors and try that
Hi Michael, ... awesome video, just waiting for my 32bit board to arrived. Do you think it's a good thing to do regardless?
The PID yes but not the cap unless you have to.
Great information... will the capacitor option also work for the Duet Wifi 2 Controller?
Great video!
I attempted the pid autotune but I get a over temp failure error. still waiting on the capacitor.
Any Ideas? What should the Ohm value of the heater Be?
Hi Michael, just wanting to know if you are going to review the new ender 5 plus. it just came out a few days ago
Im having this problem with bigtreetech 2 in 1 hotend as the heater is quite far from the tube type thermistor so temp creep across the metal takes some time to respond tried the autotune but not sure how to account for such a distance thanks for all your cool videos
Hi, are you going to review the skr e3 mini board?
Hi Michal, I ordered some capacitors since I was struggling with my MKS GEN-L.
In the meantime, I swapped the board for an SKR V1.3.
since I have them laying around, I would install them if there is no harm.
Can I plug it into the endstop socket too? I do not see spare pins for this board
thank you
I would say no, because the endstop is a sensor feeding into the board's CPU, it's not directly connected to the 5v supply rail which is where the cap needs to attach.
is there a tutorial on building a sign like the one behind you?
Great video! Can you explain why this makes a difference?
The capacitor will even out the voltage variations caused by the heater element cycling on and off as it attempts to maintain the target temperature.
Thanks!!!!!
Just a note on capacitors. There are some experts that have noted that running a capacitor dramatically below its rated voltage can shorten its life also.
I am not sure how much credence I put in that, but I would get something close to the correct voltage.
I do find that the PID tuning on my Ender 5 can vary quite dramatically every time it is run. It seems to work okay, as in being stable, but there is more than 10% variance in the three values each time it is run.
Is there a way to include the M304 g-code command in Simplify3D output before the extruder is commanded to heat up? The "Startup Script" takes place after the extruder is commanded to heat up which is too late. My printer EPROM must be disabled as the M500 command does not save the new M304 PID values. My only other solution is to re-flash the Marlin firmwear which I really don't want to do. Great content by the way, keep up the good work!
Is it possible to add more than one capacitor to the board, and will this decrease the fluctuating even more?
Hi Michael, thank you for this video. I have exactly the problem that Autotune not worked on my skr v1.3. Where would you add the capacitor on this board? Would Z-Max wich has +5V and GND next to each other be ok? Greetings from Munich Germany
Yes anywhere where 5v and ground are next to each other.
@@TeachingTech Hi Michael, it´s me again. My problem is solved by adding the capacitor. Thank you so much.
Just purchased an E3 and I am trying to work through your Calibration course but found I can't seem to get past the PID Tuning step as I do not have a Raspberry Pi, and Pronterface doesn't work on Mac. Any thoughts? I appreciate the help!
So happy with your capqcitor fix. My Sidewinder X1 had this exact problem. I couldn‘t find a Low-ESR capacitor and just tried the first random 1000uf I could find - works perfectly.
Is there any reason to „upgrade“ to Low-Esr now?
I have struggled with this issue on my sidewinder. I had a non-Low-ESR capacitor in my part bin - and that created a HUGE improvement... to the point that I could PId tune and get prints to start within 2-3 minutes.
Wish that I had known this ages ago.
I did order a Low-ESR cap....
But I still toy with dropping in an SKR v1.3 board that I have sitting here in a parts drawer.
Could this work on trigorilla board ? I am having the same issue there. What pins could be used for trigorilla ?
Is there only one PID regulator for bed and hot end? Or can I use different parameters?
Unfortunately I can't get it to run for the bed. m303 c5 e-1 s60 u1 gives a bad extruder error. I sure can't find a way around it. My bed graft looks like the one in the video since I installed the SKR mini and i have been getting some edge lifting after the install. Never had the issue with the stock board. Ender 3 Pro.
Adding a ESR cap on my mks 1.4 board worked great , temperature is sold now which makes me think my power supply is under stress .
Hello .. Which type of capacitor did u put in MKS Board .. ? Please
I recently installed a canister style thermistor to replace the original small glass type on my Geeetech A20m, after the hotend heats up to the set temperature the printer won’t start to print, any suggestions on how to fix this issue ?
I have changed both heating element on the extruder and the thermal sensor. When I turn the printer on and turn the temperature up to 210. The temperature does nothing and then I get the error saying E1 thermal runaway printer halted please rest. Should I do a PID to fix’s this issue or could be the
main board that has went bad? Any help would be appreciated.
After doing this my temperature fluctuation went away when I heat my hotend. But when I print at the same temperature, the fluctuations are back just a little bit less than before.
What could be causing that? It's the same temperature but the only difference is printing vs. not printing / fluctuations vs. no fluctuations.
I am having this problem. At 6:00 in the video you show how the printer stays on for a few seconds after adding the capacitor. Is that to say that, if my printer already does this, adding the capacitor is pointless? I recently replace my motherboard, but I did so with the same exact motherboard from the same exact manufacturer.
My Tevo Tornado had wide temperature swings when I was running high temp plastics at around 240 to 250 C. I did the automatic PID tuning and it was worse than the defaults. I just put this cap in and at 240C I'm getting a max swing of +/- one degree C. This should have been supplied by the manufacturer but it's not, I highly recommend that everyone with a Tornado take the time to add the capacitor...
if possible make a video on tronxy x2, installation of auto bed leveling sensor. thank for reading my request. have a good time.
Is the capacitor on the creality v1.1.2 mainboard the 1000uF one?
I am running into these temperature fluctuations on my SKR mini e3 v3. So I heated up the hotend and let it sit and it stayed relatively constant. Then I started heating the heat bed and everything changed. The hotend started fluctuating right away. I tried the capacitor fix, but put on the 3.3v because the SKR min has 3.3v for the thermistors. Was that the right move? One thing that has helped is a ferrite clamp on choke around the heatbed wires. But still no joy. This has only happened to me since my conversion for the Ender SW. Any thoughts on this issue?
Can you do a video on how to do a PID on a MKS Gen-L that has 1 heatbed and 2 hotend, as the hot end PID works, but the Marlin will not reconize the BED with either E-1 or E1. any Ideas? thanks
Look your video's. thanks
Does the fan needed to be on while doing the tuning?
Please help me with this. I am pretty slow on the uptake so I am probably missing a step. @ 1:05 he talks introduces us to the M303 PI autotune web site (are we meant to download and install something at this point or is he just pointing out the code that we refer to)?
Because when I get to the 3:00 min mark and type in the code to the terminal on octoprint I then press enter but the test does not start??
I cannot get my nozzle temperature under control. I have an E3d V6 (genuine), and I recently replaced my ramps 1.4 with an SKR 1.4 Turbo. Ever since I cannot get consistent temperatures from my nozzle.
I installed a 1000uf cap on my Z plus end stop plug - I checked with a meter to make sure I was on the +5v and 0v pins. I have done dozens of PID autotunes, trying different temperatures and cycles (I even did a 20 cycle autotune), but my temperatures still fluctuate about +-4˚ even while sitting in the air (not printing). I have replaced my thermistor and heater cartridge as well, just in case.
I also changed my pin assignments, to utilize the E1 mosfet on the board, since I only have one extruder, just incase the E0 mosfet was bad.
Is there something wrong with my board? Is there a way to change the PID autotune parameters? Different algorithm?
So I noticed that I was getting fluctuations in the hotend and so I swapped out the heater cartridge and thermistor and the hotend. I was still getting the fluctuations. So I did a PID autotune on the printer and it's still fluctuating. Does that mean the main board needs to be replaced?
I know this is a old vid but I've been having issues with my custom printer the hotend keeps saying temp malfunction. Do I need to plug in octoprint to watch the hot end so I get a better idea?