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Thank you for brining this issue to our attention. The safety car procedure is THE single biggest problem holding back the Weathertech series. There is no debate to this.
Hey David! It definitely is! Hopefully the series also recognizes this and is looking at ways to address it. With the larger grid sizes not looking like they're going away anytime soon it is something that will keep coming up if some tweaks aren't made!
Don't know if I'd venture as far as to say that IMSA is horrible at it haha but there is definitely some room for improvement! IMSA will naturally see more field neutralizing FCY compared to the WEC but I think implementing something to quickly and easily deal with a stranded car or large piece of debris will make a huge difference!
@@offintheesses Oh I agree. I hope it does come in. Only thing about the video I disagree is at about 7:05 I think it was. Only 18 out of 52 safety car periods could have been done as a FCY/Code 60? No it is more like 30-35. Most of the them are stalled cars and debris. If the Daytona 24 hours went by this there would have been no more full safety car periods after the 4th hour. There no accidents during the overnight hours nor on Sunday at the Daytona 24 this year.
@@williamford9564 The same issue really. One car goes off track and gets stuck which brings out the FCY, pits are also open, and then that is followed by a safety car.
I think mandating a new procedure like WECs FCY can do wonders for IMSA renaming it to Full Course Slow Zone (FCSZ) or FCY and renaming the usual FCY to SC could also work to aid WEC fans to adapt and understand the series. Dedicated Slow Zones as WEC does would only work for tracks like Le Mans and IMSA does not have a +10km track for it to viable. Closing the pitlane with exception to emergency repairs (punctures, missing aero parts, broken suspensions, mechanical failures, etc) would also keep the strategic battle active. I can only hope IMSA sees a viability in this since it will improve the racing product specially for races like Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, Indianapolis and PLM. Great video as always!
Exactly! I think this would really improve the racing product in the long races! Sebring the past couple of years has been PLAGUED by yellows which have hurt the flow of the race (and especially a lot of debris yellows). When I was working on this video and realizing how every series around the world calls the VSC, FCY etc something different it really highlighted once again how difficult sportscar racing is for new fans.
@@offintheesses I completely agree with this. Sebring is one of my favorite races of the Year alongside the R24 and LM24 since the 3 conform the Endurance Triple. It's hard for me to keep watching for a long while since cautions really avoid the teams to exploit their long term runs. Feels like a 12h race segmented in 2h segments at most.
@@Walker_41279 My goodness that is a great point. My interest in Sebring and Petit Le Mans especially has waned over the years due to this. The 3 best races of the year so far: Daytona, Laguna Seca, and VIR. Laguan and VIR only had 1 safety car. Daytona went safety car free for a good 5-6 hours until the Lexus caught fire with half an hour left.
Yeah, I want Code 60's/VSC and slow zones, but NASCAR/IMSA hates change... And, they love yellow flags and chaos. I remember in the ALMS days, slow zones were used a lot.
I agree with you sadly. I have watched far more WEC this year as a result. Did not even bother to watch Sebring. Indy and Petit Le Mans will be more of the same. Safety cars through the whole race, keeping the field close. Then they crash while battling for the win in the last 10 minutes and the journalists will then call it the greatest race in history....gheesh. I'm over it.
I think though that the manufacturers and teams have more of a voice today and if they want this, they and WEC could force the hand of the "Hate to Change' IMSA.
I also agree we could just reduce the things we throw the full caution for. 1 car stopped or debris that could be quickly retrieved could just be a 15 or 30 second code 60, rather than multiple laps, it could even be shorter than that.
I have to agree with you about the possibility of a slow zone system being used in IMSA. Like you, I watch the races, and I blog about them, and I too, believe that IMSA's Full Course Yellow procedure is way too tedious, and I think the system used in the WEC is much more effective. 15-20 minutes of a yellow flag is way, way too long.
I think code 60s need a long track like the ring if you are doing it by section. But if imsa used a full course code 60 for debris it could work. With the advance FCY systems in imsa cars it seems like it would be easy to implement a count down until green as well. Edit: I jumped the gun with this comment, should have waited to the end of the video lol
The code 60 may work at a long track like Road America, but since IMSA has mainly shorter tracks, they may opt to just use Full Course Yellow everywhere for simplicity.
Tisk tisk jumping the gun! You make a good point here that this should be something reasonably simple to implement given the technology that they already have in the cars (although I suppose this is easy to say coming from the armchair quarterback haha)
Imsa and SRO need to sort it out about this one. I was always thinking about it while watching races. I think better usage of fcy/slow zone /code60 like in aco and creventic racing
IMSA needs the same system as WEC… in fact, the first step should always be FCY then safety car (if necessary), just to eliminate any confusion. I wouldn’t close the pits at any point.
I think that utilization of the short yellow would significantly impact the series. As far as I'm aware it's only used in the first 15, last 15, and within 15minutes of the last caution. Opening up the rules to allow the short yellow based on incident severity could significantly improve yellow times while requiring little to no change in driver and official training as well as change in infrastructure. It could be balanced as it is currently where you cannot have a back to back short yellow. I've been watching IMSA for a few years but this year was my first year watching the entirety of the 24 Hours of LeMans. The localized slow zones worked really well for that race. I believe IMSA already has local yellows but they aren't really displayed anywhere in the TV graphics. Perhaps these yellows could add more defined speed enforcement similar to the slow zone or allow for more risk to be taken by corner works during a local yellow to alleviate the need for a FCY. Finally I think that adding localized slow zones for only certain tracks that it makes sense on wouldn't be an issue.
Yup you're right on the usage of the short yellow! The thing with the short yellow though is it still requires the field to be bunched up which can take some time! The local yellows right now are only to signify a hazard ahead and as far as I know there is now required speed to slow down to. Slow zones work at large tracks like Le Mans or the Nurburgring because they are large. Slow zones at shorter IMSA tracks like CTMP or a street circuit could be 1/3rd of a lap! I like the thought process though!
My biggest problem with auto racing is the yellow flag procedures, especially in endurance racing. Cars get their lap back and the gaps between them are eliminated. It effectively resets the race back to the beginning. The 24 hours of Daytona suddenly turns into the 15 hours of Daytona. Then 10 hours, and eventually the 45 minutes of Daytona. I'm all in favor of getting rid of the pace car, no bunching up the field, on a limiter, and no passing until they are going back green. It will maintain gaps between cars, have much shorter yellows, and we get to see a real 24 hour race.
To be fair to race control they simply don't have a tool in their toolbelt right now to have shorter yellows. Putting into the regulations an option for a VSC (or something similar) I think would help with a lot of the frustration that I see in comments about FCY's seemingly taking up half of a race!
I wish people were more on-board with Upgrading and or modernizing certain parts of tracks in North America. I think a small amount paved run-off in turns would be a benefit to the on track action. I love seeing drivers make big moves for position. What I don't like to see is a driver make a move and ruin their race with no chance to try again. If that driver had more run-off I think there is a strong possibility that the car will survive and give the driver the opportunity to try again. (on track action) .....it might even help reduce the number of yellow flags. a stretch, I know. lol Keep in mind I am not asking for VIR to look like Spa!.....also not suggesting that the track layout be changed ......all I want is more modern curbs and consistent run off in some turns. A 2 hour and 40 minute event with 40 cars can be eaten up by caution flags and pass arounds. I like the pass around and want to see it stay. (on track action)
I think one of the best things we've seen implemented in recent years is the few feet of grass runoff in turn 8 at CTMP before it transitions to fully paved runoff. The few feet of grass still provides punishment if you run wide but also provides the benefits of the paved runoff with cars being able to rejoin the race
As one of the guys who works on the track in those situations; VSC/Code 60/etc works great with a smaller field, especially on longer tracks - as long as race control enforces it, and isn't afraid to hand out penalties/park people who are dumb driving through safety work zones. With a big field, it can be hard to find a safe gap to work on the racing surface, but for offline/on the grass is more feasible.
You make a great point Stephen thanks for bringing this up! With lots of tracks that IMSA visits being quite narrow this would certainly be something to think about!
@@williamford9564 I would expect that from a professional series like IMSA or WEC. We had a problem with an IMSA support series driver last year, wasn’t even that serious, and the series sat him. It’s some of the minor/amateur series where it becomes an issue. Helmet goes on and brain turns off.
I think something like the Code 60 flag used in Formula 1 (and Code 35 used in Champcar Endurance Racing) is what is missing. This would keep cars in their position on track, keep spacing between the leaders, and make cleanup very quick.
THANK YOU. I don't understand why series like IMSA or Nascar (wait, IMSA is owned by Nascar) are so enamoured with cautions and restarts, bunching the field up any chance they have. Sure it makes for a fun 15 minute highlight show filled with pack racing and crashes, but watching the actual race is boring as hell when so much of it is spent slowly following the pace car. Caution periods in IMSA need to be reduced.
Honestly while the time under yellow is a massive issue, its only my second biggest gripe with FCY in IMSA, or any series for that matter. I cannot stand seeing the field bunched up. Especially in endurance races. It was actually once Carl Edwards who put it best, anytime you bunch up the field, the previous race is over, and after the restart, you're really just starting a new race for which the previous green flag stint was merely a qualifier. Cautions in NASCAR are one thing, but in a 6, 12, or 24 hour endurance sports car race, giving away free time just seems totally wrong. It devalues everything leading up to the last restart. If I'm going to watch racing for hours on end, I want to know that every second truly counts, and every hour means something, and that time lost will have to be earned back. It may not always be as "close" as if you bunch up the field 13 times in 24 hours, but it matters more. I'm on the edge of my seat in hour 1 just as much as in hour 24, because I know that what happens will matter later in the race. IMSA should just adopt the code 60 procedure that just freezes the field for incidents, WEC toys with this but unfortunately doesn't use it much. I'd keep the pits open throughout, perhaps with a time penalty that corresponds to whatever you'd gain vs. pitting under green to prevent a run on the pits. Go back to green *without* a bunch up. Maybe when the track is clear they can let them run faster, maybe code 90 or whatever, to warm up the tires. I just think the gaps should be preserved at all costs, this is part of what makes the N24 so cool. While you can gain some advantages timing pit stops with slow zones, you're never bunched- every second counts (unless they just throw a red, which should be the only time).
I'm right there with you. I don't want to see the 4 hours of Daytona, I don't want the 1 Hour or the 45 Minutes of Daytona. I want to see the 24 Hours of Daytona. But that's not what we get these days.
NASCAR throws the caution flag for very minute things like water bottles off the racing line , harmless spins when the car hasn't touched anything or if someone may have brushed the wall. What that does is allow for commercial breaks and more importantly to bunch up the field to create drama. Who owns IMSA? NASCAR!
You're not the first and I'm sure won't be the last to draw the IMSA/NASCAR comparison but I can assure you there isn't someone up in IMSA race control looking for an excuse to throw the yellow to simply bunch the field up! At least the IMSA officials are consistent and we don't have to talk about a Ryan Preece controversial spin in the closing laps 😂
IMSA's FCY procedure is to allow people to get back on the lead lap to keep the racing close. And doesn't IMSA's short yellow keep the pits closed? I've honestly never seen a FCY for debris or for 1 car needing to be pushed behind a wall.
2:07: The issue of having the Prototypes pit, THEN the GTs a lap later adds additional time that is not necessary. WEC and ELMS have all cars pit at once. Why not IMSA?
This is a good question! At 6:14 I show an example of the IMSA pit lane assignment from Long Beach. Although it was GTP/GTD only you can get a good idea of how they break up the prototype teams with GTD teams! The pit boxes are already quite small as it is and many tracks aren't able to accomodate larger stalls with a large IMSA field. With this I dont think that the split Prototype/GT pits are going anywhere anytime soon!
I believe any unlapping or “wave-around” goes completely against the core philosophy of racing and even more so for grand touring or endurance racing. It should not exist at all because track position earned or lost is the core essence of racing, even if a different class of car is “out of place”. Everyone is in their race in multi class racing and to artificially and somewhat arbitrarily change that can undo earned track position or “fix” mistakes. In GT racing, I want to see who can navigate that allotted time the most precisely.
Ah, but you're missing the secret third pit lane option which IMSA already implements! Split pit lane admission. For example: - FCY comes out as soon as the danger is identified. - until the last Prototype (gtp/P2) has passed the pit entry line on that lap (so if position 12 is the last to drive past pit entry before it is called, it's Prototype only until they pass the pits again) the pits are ONLY open for "class 1" let's say. - pits then open for GT3. This cycle continues until the FCY is lifted and then the put lane returns to normal operation. Obviously emergency service (5 seconds + full service at next opportunity) would still apply. And I think if there is a countdown (10 seconds) the pit lane would be open until the 0 second call, but I'm less committed to this one for safety reasons.
@@offintheesses absolutely, we already have pit closed lights which I assume are part of the IMSA package, using the "dancing ants" to track who's where under a code 60 (let's call it what it is), it would almost be easier than a full safety car, as theres much less tracking (heh) to be done of the individual cars, wave by's etc.
@@EikeSky It's not just about whether the pits could stay open during FCY, it's more of a question whether they SHOULD stay open. The main reason why WEC closes the pit lane during FCY is to keep things fair for everybody. Pitting under FCY/Code60/whatever you call it is a massive advantage compared to pitting under green. For a full service pitstop in WEC (full load of fuel, 4 tires and driver change) it would be about a 40 second difference between the time lost under green and the time lost under FCY. So if a car had just pitted under green and then there is an FCY right after that, and everybody else gets to stop under FCY, the car that pitted first would have lost around 40 seconds, pretty much taking them out of contention just for pitting 1 lap sooner. That's why the pits should remain closed, so that everybody else has to stay out until the FCY is over. They have to make their stops under green as well, ensuring equal time loss among all cars. The only important thing here is to allow emergency service, in such a way that a car that is about to run out of fuel and can't delay their stop, can get a bit of fuel during FCY, but in such a way that they don't get any advantage or big disadvantage. But the emergency service rules already in place in IMSA should work fairly well for this, might only need minor tweaking.
Just make it like WEC, i dont know why we need always a sc, use fcy for small things and safety car for bigger accidents. Maybe it is also an american thing ? To have a bigger show ? I dont know iam from europe, but thats my feeling
VSC's are definitely a newer addition to races and you're right they haven't been adopted by any of what I would say are the top racing series in the states (NASCAR, Indy or IMSA). I wouldn't say that it's necessarily to make the show better but I just don't think there has been a big need for it. With the large grids we're now seeing in IMSA I think it's probably time to take a good look at implementing it though!
I like the idea of implementing the WEC short yellow, but I'm not crazy about the long title you gave it. I'd rather see the WEC rules replace the current short yellow rules and continue to be called a short yellow. I can hear Calvin Fish now. "This will be a short yellow. New short yellow proceedure this year, no safety car will come out, just all of the cars have to slow down to 50 miles an hour, and the pits will be closed."
Yeah the name isn't something I really gave any thought but wanted to focus more on the concept! Honestly the entire sportscar racing world needs to align on what to call things (but they never will)!
Why call it a Full Course SlowZONE when it's full course? The naming doesn't make sense, Call it Safety Car and FCY for the new procedure this would be confusing for a year but better on the long-term
I agree the naming isn't perfect but the point of this wasn't to come up with a good naming convention for these (sportscar racing as a whole would be a whole lot easier for new fans if they just settled on a consistent naming convention for things!). The main point was that some change is probably due here to reduce the number of yellows we're seeing!
It definitely can be frustrating at times! I don't mind the FCY "break" every once in a while but the frequency that we're seeing them at right now is a problem and taking away from the racing on track!
IMSA has the best yellow procedures as it actually keeps the racing competitive for the entire field through the entire race. IMSA races are always exciting to watch when it’s green instead of WEC’s where you are watching 2 cars battle for the win. It’s largely why teams are coming from Europe to come run in IMSA opposed to SRO/WEC.
I do largely agree with you! I do like the wave around and giving teams a chance to battle back! I think there have been some races though where the number of yellows has been an issue and took away from the battles! Some big FCY's at the Rolex, Sebring 12 Hours and Road America come to mind!
@@offintheesses I see your argument, I don’t see yellows being a big deal on the endurance rounds but on the shorter 2.4H races they’re definitely a bit inconvenient when it’s killing time. As someone that’s over the wall at these races I like the long yellows. Let’s me get my gloves and goggles back on lol.
I completely disagree. The gaps between cars are important and signify the progress of the race. Say we had an A to B race and the leader is 2 miles ahead of everyone. Then someone crashes. Does it make sense to park the leader until everyone else catches up to him? You basically just reset the race but now you have a shorter distance to go. Everything that happened before that point did not matter and might as well never happened at all.
Honestly I have no interest in Indy and Petit Le Mans (THIS ONE ESPECIALLY) because of the safety car procedures. The grids are honestly too big if you are going to use the current procedures IMSA uses. Probably 30-40% of the race will be neutralized. They cars will artificially remain together. Then they crash in the last 10 minutes to create this "spectacle". Making the endurance aspect meaningless. But I won't complain without offering solutions..... In addition adopting WEC's FCY procedure for stalled car and debris situations. I think the Petit Le Mans should be changed to just run GTP and GTD Pro only. Let the pro am classes finish their season as at Indy. If GTD Am teams want to enter PLM as a pro entry they can. Kinda like Detroit.
It would never happen though. The Pro AM teams would call Foul and then you risk teams pulling out of the series altogether. It would also anger Porsche, BMW and Motul who are heavy hitters in the series and a HUGE presence and financial supporters of Petit. Petit is one of the crown jewels of the series.
I'm not too worried about Indy, last years race had a couple of yellows but I don't see it being as bad as the Glen or Road AM was for yellows this year. Not sure I like Petit not featuring all classes I think the endurance cup races should still have all of the cars running! At the end of the day I think we're seeing growing pains, IMSA has seen a ton of growth the last couple of years and some adjustments need to be made in other areas to accomodate the growth and keep the racing good (and under green flag haha)
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Thank you for brining this issue to our attention. The safety car procedure is THE single biggest problem holding back the Weathertech series. There is no debate to this.
Thanks for addressing this! It's an elephant in the room at IMSA races.
Hey David! It definitely is! Hopefully the series also recognizes this and is looking at ways to address it. With the larger grid sizes not looking like they're going away anytime soon it is something that will keep coming up if some tweaks aren't made!
The series/organizations that get it right are: WEC, Creventic, Nurburgring 24/NLS
The ones who are horrible at it are: IMSA, SRO
Don't know if I'd venture as far as to say that IMSA is horrible at it haha but there is definitely some room for improvement! IMSA will naturally see more field neutralizing FCY compared to the WEC but I think implementing something to quickly and easily deal with a stranded car or large piece of debris will make a huge difference!
@@offintheesses Oh I agree. I hope it does come in. Only thing about the video I disagree is at about 7:05 I think it was. Only 18 out of 52 safety car periods could have been done as a FCY/Code 60? No it is more like 30-35. Most of the them are stalled cars and debris. If the Daytona 24 hours went by this there would have been no more full safety car periods after the 4th hour. There no accidents during the overnight hours nor on Sunday at the Daytona 24 this year.
What is the issue with SRO?
@williamford9564 SRO has the similar safety car protocol to IMSA so that's what the original comment was trying to say
@@williamford9564 The same issue really. One car goes off track and gets stuck which brings out the FCY, pits are also open, and then that is followed by a safety car.
I think mandating a new procedure like WECs FCY can do wonders for IMSA renaming it to Full Course Slow Zone (FCSZ) or FCY and renaming the usual FCY to SC could also work to aid WEC fans to adapt and understand the series. Dedicated Slow Zones as WEC does would only work for tracks like Le Mans and IMSA does not have a +10km track for it to viable.
Closing the pitlane with exception to emergency repairs (punctures, missing aero parts, broken suspensions, mechanical failures, etc) would also keep the strategic battle active. I can only hope IMSA sees a viability in this since it will improve the racing product specially for races like Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, Indianapolis and PLM.
Great video as always!
Exactly! I think this would really improve the racing product in the long races! Sebring the past couple of years has been PLAGUED by yellows which have hurt the flow of the race (and especially a lot of debris yellows).
When I was working on this video and realizing how every series around the world calls the VSC, FCY etc something different it really highlighted once again how difficult sportscar racing is for new fans.
@@offintheesses I completely agree with this. Sebring is one of my favorite races of the Year alongside the R24 and LM24 since the 3 conform the Endurance Triple.
It's hard for me to keep watching for a long while since cautions really avoid the teams to exploit their long term runs. Feels like a 12h race segmented in 2h segments at most.
@@Walker_41279 My goodness that is a great point. My interest in Sebring and Petit Le Mans especially has waned over the years due to this. The 3 best races of the year so far: Daytona, Laguna Seca, and VIR. Laguan and VIR only had 1 safety car. Daytona went safety car free for a good 5-6 hours until the Lexus caught fire with half an hour left.
Yeah, I want Code 60's/VSC and slow zones, but NASCAR/IMSA hates change... And, they love yellow flags and chaos. I remember in the ALMS days, slow zones were used a lot.
I agree with you sadly. I have watched far more WEC this year as a result. Did not even bother to watch Sebring. Indy and Petit Le Mans will be more of the same. Safety cars through the whole race, keeping the field close. Then they crash while battling for the win in the last 10 minutes and the journalists will then call it the greatest race in history....gheesh. I'm over it.
I think though that the manufacturers and teams have more of a voice today and if they want this, they and WEC could force the hand of the "Hate to Change' IMSA.
NASCAR loves change. The problem is that they are going for entertainment value at the cost of fair racing. And IMSA, well they are owned by NASCAR.
The cations really kill the racing in IMSA. I FAST FORWARD THRU THEM IF I CAN.
Too many of them can certainly overshadow some great racing. Every once in a while though can breathe some fresh life into a race!
it has killed my interest in Sebring and Petit Le Mans especially
I also agree we could just reduce the things we throw the full caution for. 1 car stopped or debris that could be quickly retrieved could just be a 15 or 30 second code 60, rather than multiple laps, it could even be shorter than that.
It’s the reason I don’t actively try to watch IMSA like I do other series
I have to agree with you about the possibility of a slow zone system being used in IMSA. Like you, I watch the races, and I blog about them, and I too, believe that IMSA's Full Course Yellow procedure is way too tedious, and I think the system used in the WEC is much more effective. 15-20 minutes of a yellow flag is way, way too long.
I think code 60s need a long track like the ring if you are doing it by section. But if imsa used a full course code 60 for debris it could work. With the advance FCY systems in imsa cars it seems like it would be easy to implement a count down until green as well.
Edit: I jumped the gun with this comment, should have waited to the end of the video lol
The code 60 may work at a long track like Road America, but since IMSA has mainly shorter tracks, they may opt to just use Full Course Yellow everywhere for simplicity.
Tisk tisk jumping the gun! You make a good point here that this should be something reasonably simple to implement given the technology that they already have in the cars (although I suppose this is easy to say coming from the armchair quarterback haha)
Imsa and SRO need to sort it out about this one. I was always thinking about it while watching races. I think better usage of fcy/slow zone /code60 like in aco and creventic racing
IMSA needs the same system as WEC… in fact, the first step should always be FCY then safety car (if necessary), just to eliminate any confusion. I wouldn’t close the pits at any point.
For a piece of body work on the track, in WEC it takes 1-2 minutes, in IMSA AT LEAST 10 mn...
I think that utilization of the short yellow would significantly impact the series. As far as I'm aware it's only used in the first 15, last 15, and within 15minutes of the last caution. Opening up the rules to allow the short yellow based on incident severity could significantly improve yellow times while requiring little to no change in driver and official training as well as change in infrastructure. It could be balanced as it is currently where you cannot have a back to back short yellow. I've been watching IMSA for a few years but this year was my first year watching the entirety of the 24 Hours of LeMans. The localized slow zones worked really well for that race. I believe IMSA already has local yellows but they aren't really displayed anywhere in the TV graphics. Perhaps these yellows could add more defined speed enforcement similar to the slow zone or allow for more risk to be taken by corner works during a local yellow to alleviate the need for a FCY. Finally I think that adding localized slow zones for only certain tracks that it makes sense on wouldn't be an issue.
Yup you're right on the usage of the short yellow! The thing with the short yellow though is it still requires the field to be bunched up which can take some time!
The local yellows right now are only to signify a hazard ahead and as far as I know there is now required speed to slow down to. Slow zones work at large tracks like Le Mans or the Nurburgring because they are large. Slow zones at shorter IMSA tracks like CTMP or a street circuit could be 1/3rd of a lap! I like the thought process though!
My biggest problem with auto racing is the yellow flag procedures, especially in endurance racing. Cars get their lap back and the gaps between them are eliminated. It effectively resets the race back to the beginning. The 24 hours of Daytona suddenly turns into the 15 hours of Daytona. Then 10 hours, and eventually the 45 minutes of Daytona.
I'm all in favor of getting rid of the pace car, no bunching up the field, on a limiter, and no passing until they are going back green. It will maintain gaps between cars, have much shorter yellows, and we get to see a real 24 hour race.
That is why my favorite endurance race (when it does not fog and storm) is the Nurburgring 24 these days.
I think IMSA likes FCYs to some degree as it bunches up the field and makes things more sprint and less endurance - like a backdoor NASCAR stage.
5:50: I agree ONE THOUSAND PERCENT!
Its my one issue with IMSA. They throw a FCY for anything small and takes half an hour just to go green. Ruins the racing for me.
To be fair to race control they simply don't have a tool in their toolbelt right now to have shorter yellows. Putting into the regulations an option for a VSC (or something similar) I think would help with a lot of the frustration that I see in comments about FCY's seemingly taking up half of a race!
I wish people were more on-board with Upgrading and or modernizing certain parts of tracks in North America.
I think a small amount paved run-off in turns would be a benefit to the on track action.
I love seeing drivers make big moves for position.
What I don't like to see is a driver make a move and ruin their race with no chance to try again.
If that driver had more run-off I think there is a strong possibility that the car will survive and give the driver the opportunity to try again. (on track action) .....it might even help reduce the number of yellow flags. a stretch, I know. lol
Keep in mind I am not asking for VIR to look like Spa!.....also not suggesting that the track layout be changed ......all I want is more modern curbs and consistent run off in some turns.
A 2 hour and 40 minute event with 40 cars can be eaten up by caution flags and pass arounds.
I like the pass around and want to see it stay. (on track action)
I think one of the best things we've seen implemented in recent years is the few feet of grass runoff in turn 8 at CTMP before it transitions to fully paved runoff. The few feet of grass still provides punishment if you run wide but also provides the benefits of the paved runoff with cars being able to rejoin the race
As one of the guys who works on the track in those situations; VSC/Code 60/etc works great with a smaller field, especially on longer tracks - as long as race control enforces it, and isn't afraid to hand out penalties/park people who are dumb driving through safety work zones. With a big field, it can be hard to find a safe gap to work on the racing surface, but for offline/on the grass is more feasible.
You make a great point Stephen thanks for bringing this up! With lots of tracks that IMSA visits being quite narrow this would certainly be something to think about!
The WEC does enforce it STRICTLY. There are many penalties in most of the races and a yellow flag violation cost Toyota the win at COTA.
@@williamford9564 I would expect that from a professional series like IMSA or WEC. We had a problem with an IMSA support series driver last year, wasn’t even that serious, and the series sat him.
It’s some of the minor/amateur series where it becomes an issue. Helmet goes on and brain turns off.
I think something like the Code 60 flag used in Formula 1 (and Code 35 used in Champcar Endurance Racing) is what is missing. This would keep cars in their position on track, keep spacing between the leaders, and make cleanup very quick.
In F1 it's VSC (Virtual Safety Car) and works a bit different.
THANK YOU. I don't understand why series like IMSA or Nascar (wait, IMSA is owned by Nascar) are so enamoured with cautions and restarts, bunching the field up any chance they have. Sure it makes for a fun 15 minute highlight show filled with pack racing and crashes, but watching the actual race is boring as hell when so much of it is spent slowly following the pace car. Caution periods in IMSA need to be reduced.
Honestly while the time under yellow is a massive issue, its only my second biggest gripe with FCY in IMSA, or any series for that matter. I cannot stand seeing the field bunched up. Especially in endurance races. It was actually once Carl Edwards who put it best, anytime you bunch up the field, the previous race is over, and after the restart, you're really just starting a new race for which the previous green flag stint was merely a qualifier.
Cautions in NASCAR are one thing, but in a 6, 12, or 24 hour endurance sports car race, giving away free time just seems totally wrong. It devalues everything leading up to the last restart. If I'm going to watch racing for hours on end, I want to know that every second truly counts, and every hour means something, and that time lost will have to be earned back. It may not always be as "close" as if you bunch up the field 13 times in 24 hours, but it matters more. I'm on the edge of my seat in hour 1 just as much as in hour 24, because I know that what happens will matter later in the race.
IMSA should just adopt the code 60 procedure that just freezes the field for incidents, WEC toys with this but unfortunately doesn't use it much. I'd keep the pits open throughout, perhaps with a time penalty that corresponds to whatever you'd gain vs. pitting under green to prevent a run on the pits. Go back to green *without* a bunch up. Maybe when the track is clear they can let them run faster, maybe code 90 or whatever, to warm up the tires. I just think the gaps should be preserved at all costs, this is part of what makes the N24 so cool. While you can gain some advantages timing pit stops with slow zones, you're never bunched- every second counts (unless they just throw a red, which should be the only time).
I'm right there with you. I don't want to see the 4 hours of Daytona, I don't want the 1 Hour or the 45 Minutes of Daytona. I want to see the 24 Hours of Daytona. But that's not what we get these days.
NASCAR throws the caution flag for very minute things like water bottles off the racing line , harmless spins when the car hasn't touched anything or if someone may have brushed the wall. What that does is allow for commercial breaks and more importantly to bunch up the field to create drama. Who owns IMSA? NASCAR!
You're not the first and I'm sure won't be the last to draw the IMSA/NASCAR comparison but I can assure you there isn't someone up in IMSA race control looking for an excuse to throw the yellow to simply bunch the field up! At least the IMSA officials are consistent and we don't have to talk about a Ryan Preece controversial spin in the closing laps 😂
IMSA's FCY procedure is to allow people to get back on the lead lap to keep the racing close.
And doesn't IMSA's short yellow keep the pits closed?
I've honestly never seen a FCY for debris or for 1 car needing to be pushed behind a wall.
Nascar owns imsa, so expect it to have some nascar things
2:07: The issue of having the Prototypes pit, THEN the GTs a lap later adds additional time that is not necessary. WEC and ELMS have all cars pit at once. Why not IMSA?
This is a good question! At 6:14 I show an example of the IMSA pit lane assignment from Long Beach. Although it was GTP/GTD only you can get a good idea of how they break up the prototype teams with GTD teams! The pit boxes are already quite small as it is and many tracks aren't able to accomodate larger stalls with a large IMSA field. With this I dont think that the split Prototype/GT pits are going anywhere anytime soon!
Stop the “clock” in the second half of the race. Green laps only
This years Sebring round would have probably been 18 hours had they done this 😂
I believe any unlapping or “wave-around” goes completely against the core philosophy of racing and even more so for grand touring or endurance racing. It should not exist at all because track position earned or lost is the core essence of racing, even if a different class of car is “out of place”. Everyone is in their race in multi class racing and to artificially and somewhat arbitrarily change that can undo earned track position or “fix” mistakes. In GT racing, I want to see who can navigate that allotted time the most precisely.
Ah, but you're missing the secret third pit lane option which IMSA already implements! Split pit lane admission. For example:
- FCY comes out as soon as the danger is identified.
- until the last Prototype (gtp/P2) has passed the pit entry line on that lap (so if position 12 is the last to drive past pit entry before it is called, it's Prototype only until they pass the pits again) the pits are ONLY open for "class 1" let's say.
- pits then open for GT3.
This cycle continues until the FCY is lifted and then the put lane returns to normal operation.
Obviously emergency service (5 seconds + full service at next opportunity) would still apply. And I think if there is a countdown (10 seconds) the pit lane would be open until the 0 second call, but I'm less committed to this one for safety reasons.
Ah interesting, and you are suggesting this could be part of some sort of VSC/Full Course Slow Zone procedure?
@@offintheesses absolutely, we already have pit closed lights which I assume are part of the IMSA package, using the "dancing ants" to track who's where under a code 60 (let's call it what it is), it would almost be easier than a full safety car, as theres much less tracking (heh) to be done of the individual cars, wave by's etc.
@@EikeSky It's not just about whether the pits could stay open during FCY, it's more of a question whether they SHOULD stay open.
The main reason why WEC closes the pit lane during FCY is to keep things fair for everybody.
Pitting under FCY/Code60/whatever you call it is a massive advantage compared to pitting under green. For a full service pitstop in WEC (full load of fuel, 4 tires and driver change) it would be about a 40 second difference between the time lost under green and the time lost under FCY.
So if a car had just pitted under green and then there is an FCY right after that, and everybody else gets to stop under FCY, the car that pitted first would have lost around 40 seconds, pretty much taking them out of contention just for pitting 1 lap sooner.
That's why the pits should remain closed, so that everybody else has to stay out until the FCY is over. They have to make their stops under green as well, ensuring equal time loss among all cars.
The only important thing here is to allow emergency service, in such a way that a car that is about to run out of fuel and can't delay their stop, can get a bit of fuel during FCY, but in such a way that they don't get any advantage or big disadvantage.
But the emergency service rules already in place in IMSA should work fairly well for this, might only need minor tweaking.
It’s been like this ever since I started watching in 2005. Every race people complain about it and nothing ever changes
Maybe someone at IMSA will see this and could lead to a rethink!
Just make it like WEC, i dont know why we need always a sc, use fcy for small things and safety car for bigger accidents. Maybe it is also an american thing ? To have a bigger show ? I dont know iam from europe, but thats my feeling
VSC's are definitely a newer addition to races and you're right they haven't been adopted by any of what I would say are the top racing series in the states (NASCAR, Indy or IMSA). I wouldn't say that it's necessarily to make the show better but I just don't think there has been a big need for it. With the large grids we're now seeing in IMSA I think it's probably time to take a good look at implementing it though!
I like the idea of implementing the WEC short yellow, but I'm not crazy about the long title you gave it. I'd rather see the WEC rules replace the current short yellow rules and continue to be called a short yellow. I can hear Calvin Fish now.
"This will be a short yellow. New short yellow proceedure this year, no safety car will come out, just all of the cars have to slow down to 50 miles an hour, and the pits will be closed."
Yeah the name isn't something I really gave any thought but wanted to focus more on the concept! Honestly the entire sportscar racing world needs to align on what to call things (but they never will)!
Why call it a Full Course SlowZONE when it's full course? The naming doesn't make sense, Call it Safety Car and FCY for the new procedure this would be confusing for a year but better on the long-term
I agree the naming isn't perfect but the point of this wasn't to come up with a good naming convention for these (sportscar racing as a whole would be a whole lot easier for new fans if they just settled on a consistent naming convention for things!). The main point was that some change is probably due here to reduce the number of yellows we're seeing!
The FCY take way toooo long. A lot of times for the simplest thing. It's frustrating to watch IMSA races.
It definitely can be frustrating at times! I don't mind the FCY "break" every once in a while but the frequency that we're seeing them at right now is a problem and taking away from the racing on track!
IMSA has the best yellow procedures as it actually keeps the racing competitive for the entire field through the entire race.
IMSA races are always exciting to watch when it’s green instead of WEC’s where you are watching 2 cars battle for the win.
It’s largely why teams are coming from Europe to come run in IMSA opposed to SRO/WEC.
I do largely agree with you! I do like the wave around and giving teams a chance to battle back! I think there have been some races though where the number of yellows has been an issue and took away from the battles! Some big FCY's at the Rolex, Sebring 12 Hours and Road America come to mind!
@@offintheesses I see your argument, I don’t see yellows being a big deal on the endurance rounds but on the shorter 2.4H races they’re definitely a bit inconvenient when it’s killing time.
As someone that’s over the wall at these races I like the long yellows. Let’s me get my gloves and goggles back on lol.
I completely disagree. The gaps between cars are important and signify the progress of the race.
Say we had an A to B race and the leader is 2 miles ahead of everyone. Then someone crashes. Does it make sense to park the leader until everyone else catches up to him? You basically just reset the race but now you have a shorter distance to go. Everything that happened before that point did not matter and might as well never happened at all.
@@thejman3489 yes that’s true. Everything before the white flag did should not matter. It’s a race against time.
Honestly I have no interest in Indy and Petit Le Mans (THIS ONE ESPECIALLY) because of the safety car procedures. The grids are honestly too big if you are going to use the current procedures IMSA uses. Probably 30-40% of the race will be neutralized. They cars will artificially remain together. Then they crash in the last 10 minutes to create this "spectacle". Making the endurance aspect meaningless. But I won't complain without offering solutions..... In addition adopting WEC's FCY procedure for stalled car and debris situations. I think the Petit Le Mans should be changed to just run GTP and GTD Pro only. Let the pro am classes finish their season as at Indy. If GTD Am teams want to enter PLM as a pro entry they can. Kinda like Detroit.
It would never happen though. The Pro AM teams would call Foul and then you risk teams pulling out of the series altogether. It would also anger Porsche, BMW and Motul who are heavy hitters in the series and a HUGE presence and financial supporters of Petit. Petit is one of the crown jewels of the series.
I'm not too worried about Indy, last years race had a couple of yellows but I don't see it being as bad as the Glen or Road AM was for yellows this year. Not sure I like Petit not featuring all classes I think the endurance cup races should still have all of the cars running! At the end of the day I think we're seeing growing pains, IMSA has seen a ton of growth the last couple of years and some adjustments need to be made in other areas to accomodate the growth and keep the racing good (and under green flag haha)