I picked this exhaust up from BMP Tuning(link in description) before the car even landed. Next mod coming will be Power Fold Mirrors, first oil change with oil analysis, then we have a TON of parts to test fit. That should be fun times!
Appreciate it again, Im really shocked that the factory Golf R system weighs less than the Milltek - I know on the GTI system when we weighed them, it was identical in weight (but we made power + sound was amazing). Great video as always and happy we could assist with your mod bug!
@@ragnarironspear1791 :( Im sorry about that. TH-cam is weird.. plus you have to have YT notifications on AND them on for you phone or it mayn't get them
When you revved it up with the exhaust removed, and it didn't get noticeably louder, I knew you weren't going to gain anything from the new catback. These modern turbos are just so efficient at sucking up exhaust gases and turning em into boost. I was going to suggest maybe a stock exhaust resonator delete, but I see it doesn't have one.
more like the ppf kills the noise. my 2018 leon cupra which shares almost the same engine as this car sounds louder with just the resonator removed than this mk8 missing the backbox and resonator lol
@@Regape96 Maybe. I've never owned a car with a ppf. However I do own the original 2004 R32 which has an incredible sounding stock exhaust (loud enough that random Karens would shout at me when I was driving down the street at the speed limit), and when I put a turbo on it, it became incredibly quiet. Hitting the gas made it go from "angry wookie" to just an annoying soft whoosh. So quiet that I lost all enjoyment in the car at less than 10/10ths and almost got rid of the turbo. I finally found a much more free flowing cat back exhaust with a nice tone, but it's still quieter than stock.
@@johnnyringo4463 crazy to think how much time has passed since that happened.. anyway, I really only expect gains from a downpipe and maybe the catback can give you a few ponies when paired with a downpipe. On the stock downpipe though? I don’t expect any gains, but I’ve seen some more more power on the stock downpipe with a different catback
The benefit is likely if you are going to get it tuned. The stock exhaust will hit a power wall before the aftermarket exhaust, plus getting the cats and dump pipes upgraded would add further - when tuned
Kinda like cold air intakes were years and years ago (and still are). Lots of money, but no gain, once manufacturers started adding intake hoses and not just running a snout off the air filter... even my 1984 F150 has a stock cold air intake!
Doesnt surprise me. Thats what I tell people all the time: Cars nowerdays are so refined and optimized for performance and emissions. VW spends billions on R&D and theres litterally 100s of engineers working at VW to make the perfect exhaust system. Its funny that people think some aftermarked company slapping together pipes would exceed what the VW engineers did. Imho you buy aftermarket exhausts for the looks and because theyre sometimes louder. But expect a slight performance dip (especially on NA cars), not a performance gain.
On an R spec I would think all tweaking would of been factory done. On a "normal" car I'd expect to see an improvement and that's where the difference is.
@@bryce1274 Nope. Because all cars (also "normal" ones) are maxed out to be highly efficient (for fuel consumption and emissions) and generate as much power as possible from small displacements. We're not living in the 80s anymore, mate.
most modern cars wont gain much of anything with just the exhaust because the engine will re-tune itself to meet certain criteria and the outcome will be nearly identical power output.
@Franz Fanon Yes. The computer is programmed to adjust (within a certain percentage range) to conditions as they are forced on it. This could be running leaner or richer or off of sub optimal fuel or at high elevation.
There are no any sensors after the cat that could detect any power differences and feedback to the ECU. And there is no built-in dyno into the engine..
@Franz Fanon ofc not. Some cars are meant to be "sporty" or modified. I am saying that most of the time your gains will be negligible if you're tryiing to mod a corolla or an elantra. If you put a mod on a car it is always good to get it tuned to use the mod to the best ability it can, so yes alot of factory exhaust can be very restrictive, and same with the air intake tubes, but if you make the mod on a car that isn't meant to be modded you'll experience way less improvement than if it was on a miata or some shitty brz that's "meant" to be modified and tries to sell itself as a sports car. Those same parameters that we were talking about the percentage up and down that the computer can account for - those are your increases in power. so expect maybe a max 3 to 5% increase after that yes the computer will de tune that shit to minimize effects on the cars reliability and standard tune.
I fitted a Millteck cat back exhaust to my Mk 5 GTI , found it to quite so I removed the system and taken out the massive amount of Fiber glass padding from the resonator and the big muffler, welded the both shut and reinstalled the system . Sounds awesome now and not to loud . With the system fitted with large muffler and resonator the car sounds has a more of a deeper sound . Sounds like more of a 2.8 L engine then a 2.0 L . Later I taken out the secondary cat from the system and sounds even better . Very happy now with the sound with no drone . Cheers bearded wonder 👍keep knocking out your great video’s , great job 👏
Great video, keep 'em coming! Web calculator gives your engine 336 at the crank, another yields 324, German marques underrate engine output, so factory estimates are valid under variable conditions. Your results don't surprise. Seems aftermarket exhausts are about sound, which may not yield more power, some remove the cats as well (a no-go for me). After buying these exhausts for multiple $Ks owners have to believe they're effective, since you've spent the money and believe the ads! My German car cousin to yours, can be outfitted with a replacement muffler for $5k, promising similar gains. I'll leave mine alone and take driving lessons instead.
You’re forgetting the US uses gasoline the we in Europe stopped using in the late 90s. I’m running 100octane from the pump. Premium in many states of America is 87 which is hilariously low octane.
@@phillip3330 😂 what’s hilarious is that you don’t know that they are simply different ratings. Look it up, they are rated differently, it’s not that the fuel is of a higher octane. You can rate the US fuel and get the same results. We even have pumps with 100, 104, and 110 octane in many places. Our 100 octane fuel is better than your 100 octane fuel just because of the rating. And 87 octane isn’t premium lol, that’s the lowest octane you can get. Premium is 91-93. Not all places have 93, like California is known for having 91 octane. Regardless, you can always mix a little e85 or octane booster no matter where you live
@@phillip3330 You're forgetting that that fuel octane rating is measured differently. Outside of the US, fuel octane is rated either by RON or MON. US' rating is based on an average of RON and MON. Read the small text below the octane rating at a US pump. It will show the simple math formula for calculating an average, which is simply adding multiple numbers together and dividing by the amount of numbers used. In this case, R+M / 2 aka RON + MON divided by 2. That 100 Octane that you're using, is the US equivalent to anywhere from 91 to 95 octane.
Charles you are a rare human. Gifted and humble. As stated before not a fan of these cars. Yet cars are cars and there's a good chance I am gaining insight and learning. The preference is for sleepers. When a vehicle exhibits obnoxious behavior. Commonly referred to as fart faster 40 with burpage. My reply is this. They paided a lot of money for that and they are going slower! The video should be a PSA for the masses. The cost of this exhaust is roughly 5% of the vehicle cost. No labor cost included. As usual a great job by you Sir.
It was awesome meeting you yesterday! It’s amazing how similar car brands are at the core and how the manufacturer handles the end product that the tech sees. Thank you for the chat
I had the “suitcase” removed from my 2022 TTS at a local muffler shop and added some black stainless steel tips, installed it was $800. It sounds fantastic under acceleration, perhaps a bit too loud so my wife says. I just turn up the stereo when she’s in the car.
Have this catback on my 7R and love it. Running their Road+ resonator but I also have their non-resonated and standard resonated mid pipe. Found the Road+ to be a nice sweet spot between the factory-quiet normal resonated and the droney non-resonated. I'm also running an IE downpipe which makes it far louder than with the factory downpipe.
Thank you! It was tough because I think its a really nice unit. and it looks AWESOME. But if you are chasing power, this is not the mod. Some sounds and looks, this is the mod.
The VW City also known as Volkswagen's Factory understands the customers concept of, "The Hot Hatch" so they know the customer wants the most power it can get from the exhaust from it's engine. The technology that VW has and the amount of effort they take into their vehicles to date has been successful with learning not only from their mistakes but saved us from having to make as many changes on our quest to give more power overall. For that I thank them.
I've always thought Milltek's stuff was highway robbery, and you proved it in this video. I'd be interested in seeing you do this with the much less expensive Neuspeed exhaust for this car.
All you need is a catless downpipe and a tune. That's where all your power comes from. Leave the factory catback on and change the tips. Most cost effective way to increase power and sound.
Ive seen these on AWD dynos making over 300whp conpletely stock. They definitely underrate them. Impressive hot hatch. Explains why the DSG can do 0-60 in as little as 3.9sec.
Experience verifies that tune and exhaust combo is where the power is gained. When a tuned car is fitted with a different/foreign exhaust you will almost always lose torque, but may gain hp in higher rpm due to freer flow. So in other words it's the calibration of the two put together that increases output. Simply bolting on a freer exhaust will do nothing or even have unwanted effects.
This is typical for what is a cat-back exhaust for any car, especially performance cars. You're not going to gain any significant power because with performance cars they're already optimized for power from the factory. Any differences in power on a dyno graph are going to be within a margin of error. If a cat-back nets you some decent performance gain, you had a really restrictive exhaust to begin with. True power gains are made by using a larger diameter non-catted downpipe or downpipe with high-flow cats as the majority of any restriction on a turbo car is from pipe diameter post-turbo, pre-cat. And the differences will be even more noticeable when you're running higher-than-stock boost levels on a bone-stock intake & exhaust vs aftermarket parts. Cat-backs are solely about sound. Thats a spicy price-tag just for sound.
Your car your choice....For me dropping 2,500 bucks for a better sound and no hp gain is a total no go...But that's just me. Love the channel ....appreciate your work...
Charles out here saving us money left and right! I was surprised to hear such a small difference in resonated vs non-resonated. On the MK7 I added an aftermarket resonator after going stage 2 as the highway drone was too much for me to handle.
Wait up, so this exhaust adds weight to the car? The whole point of a catback is to add some sound and reduce weight since the gains are negligible. Thanks for the video and for everything you do for the community. This reaffirms my conviction that buying a catback is a waste of money, specially on the Mk8 which sounds better than before in stock form.
I genuinely think that the power increase Milltek suggest would come in to effect when it’s remapped but that’s with a sports cat. Personally I would always go with Cobra exhausts over Milltek. Thank you for this video.
HUGE thank you for making this video. I was about to order this exhaust for my Mk7.5. I knew there wouldn't be a power gain, but sound wise, it really is not that much better than stock. I would really be bent spending $2,500 for something this negligible.
For anyone wanting to stage 2 this car, I have an S3 and have tried multiple exhaust brands and combinations and the absolute best sound you will get is with aftermarket downpipe, stock exhaust, and resonator delete. All the aftermarket exhausts make these cars sound like fart cannons.
2015 stage 1 S3 here with a res delete. Does the downpipe brand make a difference? I assume some are louder than others. Right now leaning towards Uni / IE.
@@HumbleMechanic Nice! I feel like res delete or not works either way. I just wanted a little more volume but I also keep my valves active to prevent some of that low-end rumble.
I think the resonator will have more effect once you swap out the downpipe and drop the cat. That's when I noticed the drone most was from the downpipe install.
I think downpipe is enough. Friends of mine tuned a Cayman T couple of days ago, removed OPF (downpipe and BR Performance stage 1), and it gained a lot, both performance and sound wise. However, who has money and really wants this, I'd say it's worth it.
Hi Charles, nice video. Did you consider to order the factory upgrade exhaust from Akra? It's a 3,975 Euro option here in Germany.... ouch. It should be a lot lighter as it's Titanium. But crazy expensive. Oh yes, that Mill teck claim of 8% to 10% is absolute ridicilous! I would say 1 to 2% at best for a catback like you installed. The only way to have a real gain is by a (catted) downpipe. Typically 20HP and 20Nm for the EA888 engine.
Great video would love to see the difference from stock and Miltek exhaust if or when you go stage1 on the mk8 see if it makes a difference with more boost 👍
I've a Mk7.5 GTi. Stock exhaust but with a scorpion 3 inch downpipe, recently got a Vagsport Res delete installed. The difference in sound was like night and day. A bit droney tho with flaps open.
@@Daniel-dj7fh yes you are right, but from 2019 cars have OPF and more silent exhaust even you remove OPF , so first step is backbox, after 2000km if you are not happy change downpipe as well..
Im really interested in that. Miltek has a downpipe now.. I don't think it was on the site when I got this cat back. Ill end up testing it at some point. But I want to move to some other mods next. I also wonder if you will need a tune for MIL issues.
@@HumbleMechanic I have a Mk7 gti clubsport with a Racingline catted downpipe which is really just a rebranded Milltek downpipe. Ive had on on for almost a year with stage 1 now and no lights or issues. I think you should go ahead a buy a downpipe and test it out on the mk8
EPL and 034 have both said that VAG exhausts are really good now and free flowing. They said in their experience the only benefit to an aftermarket exhaust is sound.
I never knew they made that exhaust hanger tool! Man that thing would have saved me countless hours. Especially in the cold when those rubber hangers get hard.
No Dyno difference, heavier and expensive. Good call. Haha. I stopped with cat backs 2 decades ago. If you have a turbo get a Downpipe if you have a normally aspirated car get long tube headers. At least those options will give some power and also some additional sound.
Most modern cars wont gain power with an aftermarket exhaust without a tune, if anything it will run worse. Same for intakes too. Give it a tune and it will make more power for sure.
Seems like the VW engineers did a good job on the factory set up. $2500 for more weight, same power , but nicer tips…I’ll pass lol. What’s with the dual catalyst looking set up on the down pipe? Is that new for 8R?
In my opinion I believe Milltek exhausts are the most overrated and overpriced exhausts ever. $2500! For a catback!😄 This video has only confirmed my perception of Milltek, they are ripoffs don't waste your money on these lousey exhausts!!
Same was discovered when the MK5 came out. An exhaust (and intake) showed no gains alone when they were each mounted and then ran on a dyno after each addition. Gains came once those were mounted and the test car was then tuned. Let's be honest...those upgrades are generally a requirement for tuning. So to not be restrictions once boost, exhaust gases, and inlet mass air are increased. So once again, *"Up To 'X' HP Increase"* generally means zero HP increase on our VWs when running the stock tuning. Thanks to VW stock equipment not being a source of restriction.
Tell Ian we need some more big turbo tunes for the 557p ecu. 1.8t Aeb b5 dbc. We need a 630cc injector file. Nobody cares about the narrowband drive-by cable motors anymore. The tunes are evaporating like water in the desert. It’s the best 1.8t for a big turbo setup on stock block imo.
Usaly you need a tune to see any difference. Stock tune adapt to the weather to output a stable torque curve in all conditions. So for the small difference that the cat back could make, the ecu adapt the map to the desired power output. You can try adding an intercooler and a full turbo back exhaust with a sport cat (with a lamda spacer for the check engine light) to see if you gained anything. Then try with and without the same upgrades, with a tune.
Awesome video! Wondering your thoughts on how exhaust pipe diameter changes the volume and tone of the crackles and pops inside and outside of the car. Thanks!
Are the stock exhaust are this tips clamped on or welded. I feel like I might as well keep the exhaust stock I'm just not in love with the chunky tips.
Hence why with pretty much all the cars I’ve owned I just go to the muffler shop and have them so whatever custom work I need….. I just wanted a straight pipe catback and it only cost me like $400 I’m probably gonna add some tips and that’ll probably be like an extra $100
thank u for such a great video. i always knew these expensive systems have no performance gains. its better to just remove the resonator and use stock muffler. same sound.
They use to. I saw a 3% increase in power on my Miata. LOL They seemed to have the car back dialed in well. Im guessing we will see power to be had on a down pipe out of the turbo.
"It's going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience." - "Wow, wow, wow......wow!" - "Yeah, yeah, yeah!" - "So, tell me what else happens in the install!"
So basically no power gain,more weight,no loudness and 2500 less on my bank account?? Do you regret or consider replacing it with another brand when available?
Might Car Mods did many test for OEM and bolt on aftermarket "Performance Enhancer's". Their take on bolt on was a waste of $$$, just leave it stock as car manufactures have already engineered max performance. The best $$ value was just to optimize the tuning for what you desire to do with the car. There are aftermarket jiggly bits that will store and load what tune you desire to have that day, Stock, Hwy, City or Track, just a turn of the dial. That may be the way I would go. Also if having to visit the dealer, load stock tune and remove the aftermarket jiggly bits to save the warranty.
What are the best/worst years, reliability-wise, of both TDI jettas and golfs? Reliability is what i would equate to be both odometer high-score capacity and monetary efficiency(both mechanical reliability and mpg) between now and said odometer high-score if it comes to be.
The restriction is in the downpipe on these golfs, so I didn't expect any gains from a cat back system. It's also important to note that there's a break in period with most exhausts that typically lasts around a month, maybe 2, and/or a few hundred miles before the sound fully develops, so it's likely that the sound will change noticeably if you do keep the aftermarket one installed.
I picked this exhaust up from BMP Tuning(link in description) before the car even landed. Next mod coming will be Power Fold Mirrors, first oil change with oil analysis, then we have a TON of parts to test fit. That should be fun times!
Appreciate it again, Im really shocked that the factory Golf R system weighs less than the Milltek - I know on the GTI system when we weighed them, it was identical in weight (but we made power + sound was amazing).
Great video as always and happy we could assist with your mod bug!
Love your channel and videos but sometimes I don't get notifications
@@ragnarironspear1791 :( Im sorry about that. TH-cam is weird.. plus you have to have YT notifications on AND them on for you phone or it mayn't get them
@@BMPTuning The weight thing threw me. I have never had that happen.
@@HumbleMechanic No need for you to apologize it's not your fault . I've had it happen with other channels like Goon Squad and the likes
Thanks for taking the $2500 hit so that nobody else does. The hero we didn't deserve
Seems like $2500 for exhaust tips. I highly appreciate you for doing this video and all the testing/installation.
Agreed. Literally no benefits.
Agreed. What a waste. And the single walled tips aren't all that either.
And it weighs more than stock
We're lucky to have Charles test it all out for us so we know what we are getting in to.
Yep, agree with you guys, $2500 for what. And the dam thing is heavier, thank Charles for the test
Are you sure the R didn’t go into low emission mode when it realised the rear wheels weren’t rotating🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
LOL Okay, so in general I hate the TDI nonsense references... But that one was funny. ;)
I'm so glad somebody is doing us all a service by warning us not to buy an expensive piece of garbage. Thank you Charles!
When you revved it up with the exhaust removed, and it didn't get noticeably louder, I knew you weren't going to gain anything from the new catback. These modern turbos are just so efficient at sucking up exhaust gases and turning em into boost.
I was going to suggest maybe a stock exhaust resonator delete, but I see it doesn't have one.
more like the ppf kills the noise. my 2018 leon cupra which shares almost the same engine as this car sounds louder with just the resonator removed than this mk8 missing the backbox and resonator lol
@@Regape96 Maybe. I've never owned a car with a ppf. However I do own the original 2004 R32 which has an incredible sounding stock exhaust (loud enough that random Karens would shout at me when I was driving down the street at the speed limit), and when I put a turbo on it, it became incredibly quiet. Hitting the gas made it go from "angry wookie" to just an annoying soft whoosh. So quiet that I lost all enjoyment in the car at less than 10/10ths and almost got rid of the turbo. I finally found a much more free flowing cat back exhaust with a nice tone, but it's still quieter than stock.
I don't understand how exhaust companies can still claim hp/tq increases nowadays, these eCU are smart enough to keep things within oem parameters.
Well with VW's semi recent emissions history, whats OEM parameters? Lol. But yeah I'm curious as well, how did they get a 25hp claim from the exhaust?
@@johnnyringo4463 crazy to think how much time has passed since that happened.. anyway, I really only expect gains from a downpipe and maybe the catback can give you a few ponies when paired with a downpipe. On the stock downpipe though? I don’t expect any gains, but I’ve seen some more more power on the stock downpipe with a different catback
The benefit is likely if you are going to get it tuned. The stock exhaust will hit a power wall before the aftermarket exhaust, plus getting the cats and dump pipes upgraded would add further - when tuned
Stock exhausts systems have come a lonnnnnng way!!! $2500 for a cat back is insane for zero performance.
That was my big takeaway. The stock on is really well dialed in!
Kinda like cold air intakes were years and years ago (and still are). Lots of money, but no gain, once manufacturers started adding intake hoses and not just running a snout off the air filter... even my 1984 F150 has a stock cold air intake!
Doesnt surprise me. Thats what I tell people all the time: Cars nowerdays are so refined and optimized for performance and emissions. VW spends billions on R&D and theres litterally 100s of engineers working at VW to make the perfect exhaust system. Its funny that people think some aftermarked company slapping together pipes would exceed what the VW engineers did.
Imho you buy aftermarket exhausts for the looks and because theyre sometimes louder. But expect a slight performance dip (especially on NA cars), not a performance gain.
On an R spec I would think all tweaking would of been factory done. On a "normal" car I'd expect to see an improvement and that's where the difference is.
@@bryce1274 Nope.
Because all cars (also "normal" ones) are maxed out to be highly efficient (for fuel consumption and emissions) and generate as much power as possible from small displacements.
We're not living in the 80s anymore, mate.
Shows how well VW have the stock one sorted . Interesting video though.
Factory exhaust with new tips welded on. That's nuts 2500
Positives: Looks & Sound
Negatives: Cost, weight, open motor, no gains
most modern cars wont gain much of anything with just the exhaust because the engine will re-tune itself to meet certain criteria and the outcome will be nearly identical power output.
@Franz Fanon Yes. The computer is programmed to adjust (within a certain percentage range) to conditions as they are forced on it. This could be running leaner or richer or off of sub optimal fuel or at high elevation.
There are no any sensors after the cat that could detect any power differences and feedback to the ECU. And there is no built-in dyno into the engine..
@Franz Fanon ofc not. Some cars are meant to be "sporty" or modified. I am saying that most of the time your gains will be negligible if you're tryiing to mod a corolla or an elantra. If you put a mod on a car it is always good to get it tuned to use the mod to the best ability it can, so yes alot of factory exhaust can be very restrictive, and same with the air intake tubes, but if you make the mod on a car that isn't meant to be modded you'll experience way less improvement than if it was on a miata or some shitty brz that's "meant" to be modified and tries to sell itself as a sports car. Those same parameters that we were talking about the percentage up and down that the computer can account for - those are your increases in power. so expect maybe a max 3 to 5% increase after that yes the computer will de tune that shit to minimize effects on the cars reliability and standard tune.
I fitted a Millteck cat back exhaust to my Mk 5 GTI , found it to quite so I removed the system and taken out the massive amount of Fiber glass padding from the resonator and the big muffler, welded the both shut and reinstalled the system . Sounds awesome now and not to loud . With the system fitted with large muffler and resonator the car sounds has a more of a deeper sound . Sounds like more of a 2.8 L engine then a 2.0 L . Later I taken out the secondary cat from the system and sounds even better . Very happy now with the sound with no drone . Cheers bearded wonder 👍keep knocking out your great video’s , great job 👏
Great video, keep 'em coming!
Web calculator gives your engine 336 at the crank, another yields 324, German marques underrate engine output, so factory estimates are valid under variable conditions. Your results don't surprise.
Seems aftermarket exhausts are about sound, which may not yield more power, some remove the cats as well (a no-go for me). After buying these exhausts for multiple $Ks owners have to believe they're effective, since you've spent the money and believe the ads! My German car cousin to yours, can be outfitted with a replacement muffler for $5k, promising similar gains. I'll leave mine alone and take driving lessons instead.
Or for that amount of money pull your engine, build it and turn up the boost. That exhaust was a joke.
You’re forgetting the US uses gasoline the we in Europe stopped using in the late 90s.
I’m running 100octane from the pump. Premium in many states of America is 87 which is hilariously low octane.
@@phillip3330 😂 what’s hilarious is that you don’t know that they are simply different ratings.
Look it up, they are rated differently, it’s not that the fuel is of a higher octane. You can rate the US fuel and get the same results. We even have pumps with 100, 104, and 110 octane in many places. Our 100 octane fuel is better than your 100 octane fuel just because of the rating.
And 87 octane isn’t premium lol, that’s the lowest octane you can get. Premium is 91-93. Not all places have 93, like California is known for having 91 octane. Regardless, you can always mix a little e85 or octane booster no matter where you live
@@phillip3330 premium is 91 or 93. 87 would be normal or midrange gas in most of the US. We can run ethanol as well if you tune for it.
@@phillip3330 You're forgetting that that fuel octane rating is measured differently. Outside of the US, fuel octane is rated either by RON or MON. US' rating is based on an average of RON and MON.
Read the small text below the octane rating at a US pump. It will show the simple math formula for calculating an average, which is simply adding multiple numbers together and dividing by the amount of numbers used. In this case, R+M / 2 aka RON + MON divided by 2.
That 100 Octane that you're using, is the US equivalent to anywhere from 91 to 95 octane.
Charles you are a rare human. Gifted and humble. As stated before not a fan of these cars. Yet cars are cars and there's a good chance I am gaining insight and learning. The preference is for sleepers. When a vehicle exhibits obnoxious behavior. Commonly referred to as fart faster 40 with burpage. My reply is this. They paided a lot of money for that and they are going slower! The video should be a PSA for the masses. The cost of this exhaust is roughly 5% of the vehicle cost. No labor cost included. As usual a great job by you Sir.
Thanks so much!!!
Thanks for doing the testing, sad to see they are charging $2500 for no HP gain with the additional 20 lb in weight.
It was awesome meeting you yesterday! It’s amazing how similar car brands are at the core and how the manufacturer handles the end product that the tech sees. Thank you for the chat
I had the “suitcase” removed from my 2022 TTS at a local muffler shop and added some black stainless steel tips, installed it was $800. It sounds fantastic under acceleration, perhaps a bit too loud so my wife says. I just turn up the stereo when she’s in the car.
Have this catback on my 7R and love it. Running their Road+ resonator but I also have their non-resonated and standard resonated mid pipe. Found the Road+ to be a nice sweet spot between the factory-quiet normal resonated and the droney non-resonated. I'm also running an IE downpipe which makes it far louder than with the factory downpipe.
Great video!!! I was surprised by the weight and NO power gain. Kudos to VW for the exhaust. Thanks for the video!!!
Thank you!! We were shocked too. I knew after driving it wouldn’t be much. But zero hp was shocking
@@HumbleMechanic starting with the Gen 2 TSI and larger motors vag products started using properly sized catbacks
Great video. This should help people not waste money on this exhaust. $2500 to add weight and lose power.
Thank you! It was tough because I think its a really nice unit. and it looks AWESOME. But if you are chasing power, this is not the mod. Some sounds and looks, this is the mod.
The VW City also known as Volkswagen's Factory understands the customers concept of, "The Hot Hatch" so they know the customer wants the most power it can get from the exhaust from it's engine. The technology that VW has and the amount of effort they take into their vehicles to date has been successful with learning not only from their mistakes but saved us from having to make as many changes on our quest to give more power overall. For that I thank them.
I've always thought Milltek's stuff was highway robbery, and you proved it in this video. I'd be interested in seeing you do this with the much less expensive Neuspeed exhaust for this car.
hey man its leif from the expo in mke. thanks for showing up, it was a great time!! that one dude was kinda creepy though.
Great to see you dude!!!
Appreciate the review. It really is amazing how well VW did on the factory exhaust. I guess this just saved me some money.
Yeah I like the non res Milltek exhaust sound the best especially when he does the drive bye it sounds very free flowing and good.
All you need is a catless downpipe and a tune. That's where all your power comes from. Leave the factory catback on and change the tips. Most cost effective way to increase power and sound.
My OCD? Aligning the exhaust tips would've become my summer project.
Ive seen these on AWD dynos making over 300whp conpletely stock.
They definitely underrate them. Impressive hot hatch. Explains why the DSG can do 0-60 in as little as 3.9sec.
I was thinking about putting a Milltek exhaust on a Cupra Formentor. But, I'm not sure now
Thanks for the amazing video mate 👍
Experience verifies that tune and exhaust combo is where the power is gained. When a tuned car is fitted with a different/foreign exhaust you will almost always lose torque, but may gain hp in higher rpm due to freer flow. So in other words it's the calibration of the two put together that increases output. Simply bolting on a freer exhaust will do nothing or even have unwanted effects.
This is typical for what is a cat-back exhaust for any car, especially performance cars. You're not going to gain any significant power because with performance cars they're already optimized for power from the factory. Any differences in power on a dyno graph are going to be within a margin of error. If a cat-back nets you some decent performance gain, you had a really restrictive exhaust to begin with.
True power gains are made by using a larger diameter non-catted downpipe or downpipe with high-flow cats as the majority of any restriction on a turbo car is from pipe diameter post-turbo, pre-cat.
And the differences will be even more noticeable when you're running higher-than-stock boost levels on a bone-stock intake & exhaust vs aftermarket parts.
Cat-backs are solely about sound. Thats a spicy price-tag just for sound.
Your car your choice....For me dropping 2,500 bucks for a better sound and no hp gain is a total no go...But that's just me. Love the channel ....appreciate your work...
That’s totally reasonable lol
Really happy someone actually made such an effort to test different scenarios. Tnx for the effort!
Ian is such a cool dude, I went to reflect tuning to get my 1.4 custom tuned before I sold it.
Nice
Charles out here saving us money left and right! I was surprised to hear such a small difference in resonated vs non-resonated. On the MK7 I added an aftermarket resonator after going stage 2 as the highway drone was too much for me to handle.
Super informative, glad to see the exhaust engineers at Volkswagen are doing a great job (unlike the infotainment designers).
Wait up, so this exhaust adds weight to the car? The whole point of a catback is to add some sound and reduce weight since the gains are negligible. Thanks for the video and for everything you do for the community. This reaffirms my conviction that buying a catback is a waste of money, specially on the Mk8 which sounds better than before in stock form.
I genuinely think that the power increase Milltek suggest would come in to effect when it’s remapped but that’s with a sports cat.
Personally I would always go with Cobra exhausts over Milltek.
Thank you for this video.
Thank you for doing this. I think I will keep mine as is and maybe add a down pipe down the road once available
I Love the Miltec exhaust on my Golf R
it makes her sing soo beautifully
HUGE thank you for making this video. I was about to order this exhaust for my Mk7.5. I knew there wouldn't be a power gain, but sound wise, it really is not that much better than stock. I would really be bent spending $2,500 for something this negligible.
they have a race pipe im going to be testing too. But still $2500 is a LOT of money,
Sounds like 3 cons for this or possibly any exhaust for the car. Thanks for the information and all the hard work to put this video together.
Just saved a lot of money for the community.
For anyone wanting to stage 2 this car, I have an S3 and have tried multiple exhaust brands and combinations and the absolute best sound you will get is with aftermarket downpipe, stock exhaust, and resonator delete.
All the aftermarket exhausts make these cars sound like fart cannons.
I have that setup on my 7.5 but I kept the res
2015 stage 1 S3 here with a res delete. Does the downpipe brand make a difference? I assume some are louder than others. Right now leaning towards Uni / IE.
@@siscnos Honestly most of the top brands are pretty identical. I personally have IE catted and love it.
@@HumbleMechanic Nice! I feel like res delete or not works either way. I just wanted a little more volume but I also keep my valves active to prevent some of that low-end rumble.
I think the resonator will have more effect once you swap out the downpipe and drop the cat. That's when I noticed the drone most was from the downpipe install.
I think downpipe is enough. Friends of mine tuned a Cayman T couple of days ago, removed OPF (downpipe and BR Performance stage 1), and it gained a lot, both performance and sound wise. However, who has money and really wants this, I'd say it's worth it.
Resonated race mode sounds the best imo. Added bonus, no freeway drone punishment
Hi Charles, nice video. Did you consider to order the factory upgrade exhaust from Akra? It's a 3,975 Euro option here in Germany.... ouch. It should be a lot lighter as it's Titanium. But crazy expensive.
Oh yes, that Mill teck claim of 8% to 10% is absolute ridicilous! I would say 1 to 2% at best for a catback like you installed. The only way to have a real gain is by a (catted) downpipe. Typically 20HP and 20Nm for the EA888 engine.
We can’t get it here as of yet. Maybe some day
Great video would love to see the difference from stock and Miltek exhaust if or when you go stage1 on the mk8 see if it makes a difference with more boost 👍
Yasss
@@HumbleMechanic so much exciting content to look forward to!
@@HumbleMechanic are you planning on running IE for ECU and TCU Tunes or something else?
A lot will depend on availability. No one cracked the ECM yet
@@HumbleMechanic Uhhh, I think my buddy recently cracked these. ;)
beautiful vid Charles!
So what exhaust would you recommend for gains 🤔 very interested
Keep the resonated section when you upgrade the downpipe. And TBH that price is pretty fair for a 304ss, 2valved exhaust with 4 tips
That hanger tool is awesome
Also for context, a new OEM exhaust will run you about $1740 plus tax. LOL
I've a Mk7.5 GTi. Stock exhaust but with a scorpion 3 inch downpipe, recently got a Vagsport Res delete installed. The difference in sound was like night and day. A bit droney tho with flaps open.
I just installed miltek catback non res exhaust on tts mk3. I don’t feel any power gain and sounds just like stock. I would say it is wasted of money.
notification squad, Have a nice weekend! Guys🔥🔥🔥
WOO
I think even with the non resonated pipe it doesn't sound like much. It needs a downpipe
Need to make some cca 1500km till backbox open... Have it on Golf 7.5 R OPF
@@BurekSaSirom5 The OPF is the problem if we're only talking about sound. But even Audi with the new rs3 are getting by this somehow.
@@Daniel-dj7fh yes you are right, but from 2019 cars have OPF and more silent exhaust even you remove OPF , so first step is backbox, after 2000km if you are not happy change downpipe as well..
@@BurekSaSirom5 You're right, they're also tuned for the OPF
Basically 95 percent of the exhaust gains on the MK7 and probably mk8 too all comes from a downpipe upgrade
Im really interested in that. Miltek has a downpipe now.. I don't think it was on the site when I got this cat back. Ill end up testing it at some point. But I want to move to some other mods next. I also wonder if you will need a tune for MIL issues.
@@HumbleMechanic It might be interesting to try one without a tune, and then try using some O2 spacers to fix the MIL if you get an error.
I like it
@@HumbleMechanic I have a Mk7 gti clubsport with a Racingline catted downpipe which is really just a rebranded Milltek downpipe. Ive had on on for almost a year with stage 1 now and no lights or issues. I think you should go ahead a buy a downpipe and test it out on the mk8
EPL and 034 have both said that VAG exhausts are really good now and free flowing. They said in their experience the only benefit to an aftermarket exhaust is sound.
I never knew they made that exhaust hanger tool! Man that thing would have saved me countless hours. Especially in the cold when those rubber hangers get hard.
ISO Highly recommended Mk4 GTI VR6 2.8L Restoration services in PNW.
Great video dude, have you got a link for the exhaust hanger removal tool?
The gpf is really holding the exhaust sound and hp gains back. Can’t wait for aftermarket downpipes.
No Dyno difference, heavier and expensive. Good call. Haha. I stopped with cat backs 2 decades ago. If you have a turbo get a Downpipe if you have a normally aspirated car get long tube headers. At least those options will give some power and also some additional sound.
Most modern cars wont gain power with an aftermarket exhaust without a tune, if anything it will run worse. Same for intakes too. Give it a tune and it will make more power for sure.
That segway to the dyno at 1:06 finished me 😂😂😂no shades, next second 😎
MAGIC LOL
Super easy, barely an inconvenience
wow must be nice to be able to work on exhaust without any rust. like any time i do any exhaust work it's like 50% of the stuff is rotted away
ITS THE BEST!!!! LOL
3 more months until my MK8 R comes in. Thank you for the content 👌🏽
Its going to be worth the wait
Not worth the money but thanks for the awesome presentation. I’ve enjoyed the detailed steps and tips in the installation.
Seems like the VW engineers did a good job on the factory set up. $2500 for more weight, same power , but nicer tips…I’ll pass lol. What’s with the dual catalyst looking set up on the down pipe? Is that new for 8R?
The Akrapovic exhaust that comes from the factory with the Golf sounds really good. Not sure if they sell those for the US models
Yes and a 4500 Euro cost , and no power gains... :(...
In my opinion I believe Milltek exhausts are the most overrated and overpriced exhausts ever.
$2500! For a catback!😄
This video has only confirmed my perception of Milltek, they are ripoffs don't waste your money on these lousey exhausts!!
Also tells me that the factory already did a pretty good job.
looks good not worth the cost I have Akrapovitch on my TCR due to opf not really the outlay
BSR said that for MK7, the orignal exhaust is OK up to 600 hp and some aftermarket only can handel up to 400 hp.
Saved me some big bucks. Thanks for this Charles
Shows you Volkswagen know what to do to make great stuff and power
Same was discovered when the MK5 came out. An exhaust (and intake) showed no gains alone when they were each mounted and then ran on a dyno after each addition. Gains came once those were mounted and the test car was then tuned. Let's be honest...those upgrades are generally a requirement for tuning. So to not be restrictions once boost, exhaust gases, and inlet mass air are increased. So once again, *"Up To 'X' HP Increase"* generally means zero HP increase on our VWs when running the stock tuning. Thanks to VW stock equipment not being a source of restriction.
Tell Ian we need some more big turbo tunes for the 557p ecu. 1.8t Aeb b5 dbc. We need a 630cc injector file. Nobody cares about the narrowband drive-by cable motors anymore. The tunes are evaporating like water in the desert. It’s the best 1.8t for a big turbo setup on stock block imo.
Referencing Pitch Meetings is super easy, barely an inconvenience!
Also Tight!
Usaly you need a tune to see any difference. Stock tune adapt to the weather to output a stable torque curve in all conditions. So for the small difference that the cat back could make, the ecu adapt the map to the desired power output. You can try adding an intercooler and a full turbo back exhaust with a sport cat (with a lamda spacer for the check engine light) to see if you gained anything. Then try with and without the same upgrades, with a tune.
*Your videos are so thorough and interesting very inspiring* 👏
It's almost like the OEM know what they're doing... 😉
I wonder if you'd get anything noise/performance gains from a GPF delete too? I know on the previous gen golf r gpf deletes sound absolutely stunning.
That dyno just gives me flashbacks any time one of your videos features it now.
Lol me too. I was tense
Awesome video! Wondering your thoughts on how exhaust pipe diameter changes the volume and tone of the crackles and pops inside and outside of the car. Thanks!
Are the stock exhaust are this tips clamped on or welded. I feel like I might as well keep the exhaust stock I'm just not in love with the chunky tips.
All you do is buy a Hyundai Veloster N muffler if you want a "great sounding car". The Veloster N is the best sounding 4 cylinder car under $60,000.
I hear it’s a great car! I’d love to check one out.
Hence why with pretty much all the cars I’ve owned I just go to the muffler shop and have them so whatever custom work I need….. I just wanted a straight pipe catback and it only cost me like $400 I’m probably gonna add some tips and that’ll probably be like an extra $100
thank u for such a great video. i always knew these expensive systems have no performance gains. its better to just remove the resonator and use stock muffler. same sound.
Do changing an exhaust ever make a significant(or any +) difference if you dont change the fuel management system/settings?
They use to. I saw a 3% increase in power on my Miata. LOL They seemed to have the car back dialed in well. Im guessing we will see power to be had on a down pipe out of the turbo.
@@HumbleMechanic Thanks
Great cars. They do basically everything but sound good. I’m getting ok with that.
Awesome review, that took a lot of work... Looks like VW should hook you yup for that review 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
"It's going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience."
- "Wow, wow, wow......wow!"
- "Yeah, yeah, yeah!"
- "So, tell me what else happens in the install!"
Hahah telling people what else happens is tight
So basically no power gain,more weight,no loudness and 2500 less on my bank account??
Do you regret or consider replacing it with another brand when available?
I’m guessing as more come out we will test them
Might Car Mods did many test for OEM and bolt on aftermarket "Performance Enhancer's".
Their take on bolt on was a waste of $$$, just leave it stock as car manufactures have already engineered max performance.
The best $$ value was just to optimize the tuning for what you desire to do with the car.
There are aftermarket jiggly bits that will store and load what tune you desire to have that day, Stock, Hwy, City or Track, just a turn of the dial.
That may be the way I would go. Also if having to visit the dealer, load stock tune and remove the aftermarket jiggly bits to save the warranty.
What are the best/worst years, reliability-wise, of both TDI jettas and golfs? Reliability is what i would equate to be both odometer high-score capacity and monetary efficiency(both mechanical reliability and mpg) between now and said odometer high-score if it comes to be.
Sweet vid. I don't know what my mk6 R exhaust was but I dropped $4500 for a @soulperformance exhaust for my Cayman S and it was worth every penny.
Silicone is the "make the rubber slippery" magic!
The restriction is in the downpipe on these golfs, so I didn't expect any gains from a cat back system.
It's also important to note that there's a break in period with most exhausts that typically lasts around a month, maybe 2, and/or a few hundred miles before the sound fully develops, so it's likely that the sound will change noticeably if you do keep the aftermarket one installed.
Really? I’ve never heard that on an exhaust. I’m not super surprised but a little. Lol