This is the "no consequences, everyone is a winner, everyone gets a trophy" generation. Thats why they cant understand the concept of punishment for sin.
Cliff, you’ve been doing this for 30+ years I just recently started watching you and hearing what you have to say and I know you understand you’re calling which is from God but I want you to know how important is your ministry is so refreshing to hear you speak to those young College students and the way the Holy Spirit uses. You God bless you God bless your family. God bless your ministry thank you thank you thank you
I have ABSOLUTE faith in GOD ( I AM THAT I AM ) in the name of JESUS! This faith allows me to live out a life where I try to the best of my abilities to avoid sin and evil thoughts, words and actions!
8:40 Cliffe should mention that it's good that God is just. Forgiveness and justice are good things. For people who might do horrible things, get away with it and are unrepentent.
When I hear the way these kids think, it's truly scary. It seems obvious that their parents have done a horrible job in parenting. They literally have no hope in them. Which makes them incredibly dangerous to society and mankind as a whole.
Why should I have an obligation to live life the way you believe I should live ? Why should I subject myself under your way of viewing things instead of my own ? It is not that I am going to get rewarded or punished when I die. So, why should I or anyone else have a obligation to stop what we are doing & 'fall into line' on what you think ?
8:27 The kid is sayin he doesnt wanna believe in hell, something never proven to exist, and Cliffe says, "Sir, you gotta deal with reality" 😅🥴😜😂😂😂😅😭😭😭😭
Also, "if goodness never wins, then life is meaningless" is a horrific way to think. Just ponder on how many injustices happen on earth....any of those goin under "Almighty God's" radar would mean everybody's life is meaningless? A couple tourists get killed, no one is ever caught, and their murderers go on to have loving families and live to be elderly. Aaaand now, since there's no justice ......life was meaningless?!? What kinda messy logic is that ish? Haha. And how are Mother Teresa and Hitler remembered now, by the way? Oh, that's why you used those examples, cause of the historical evidence of how they each lived?...right right, that is some stuff you'd say, ain't it?
Well it feels good because we have evolved to be a social species that flourishes by helping each other... and morally because in order to be consistent with our beliefs that 1. we should have good done to us, by anybody, and that 2. because we are no different than anybody, therefore everybody deserves to have good done to them by anybody.
That young fellow is on purpose running away from the truth. If someone said to him… It would be ok if someone came & tortured & raped your family members & stole all your belongings - then he would know something was really ( objectively ) bad and wrong with that.
17:50 this guy has just admitted that would have kill, tortured and experimented with jews in the German Nazi times: it was legal, society woulndn’t reprehensive him and it would have made him happy because was a social movement. This is the atheist real outcome: absolute evil
I am not confusing intrinsic to material. Suppose I got killed in a car accident tomorrow. The result being that there is nothing after when I die. Why should I have an obligation to live life the way you believe I should live ? Why should I subject myself under your way of viewing things instead of my own ? It is not that I am going to get rewarded or punished when I die. So, why should I or anyone else have a obligation to stop what we are doing & 'fall into line' on what you think ?
Well he is talking to passer bys who never expected or prepared to be doing that when they woke up in the morning.. it's harder to think on the spot when Cliffe is asking them things that they may have never thought about before.
The young man doesn’t want to accept the amazing gift God gives us through His Son Jesus because the other option or possibility of going to hell is a concept too horrible to accept? Well I’m wondering if someone offered him a brand new car, would he not take it because there have been too many lives ruined in terrible accidents and have suffered or because the possibility of crashing and dying while driving is just too horrible of a thought to accept? 🤔 I just don’t understand how people can refuse such an amazing offer from God when given the opportunity yet instead will hypothetically focus more on what will happen if they don’t accept it? But as Cliffe said usually it’s because they don’t want to let go of their sin 😒 I just pray they realize how amazing God’s love, grace and mercy is before it’s too late 😔🙏🏼
at about 14:18 Cliffe says if there is nothing after death, life is meaningless, I would wholeheartedly disagree with that. I believe this is our only life, and it's up to us to make the most out of it, my life certainly doesn't lack meaning, life is a wonderful adventure to be explored and lived. Not all of us are lucky enough to live in relative comfort, millions around the world aren't afforded that luxury, they have to contend with poverty, starvation, war,disease, and any number of other set backs, we are the lucky ones, we can help those who are in need in any number of ways, giving to charities, or maybe volunteer work. We are fortunate to be in the position we find ourselves, and we can help others. Life is what you make it.
bonnie43uk The point Cliffe is making is that if there is nothing after death then there is no objective meaning of life. People can create a meaning for their life but that is just a notion in your head, it is not reality. The meaning of your life is just a made up belief. You are just deluding yourself. It is no different than a person who imagines himself in fantasy world.
MrSlickJerk Yes, but that is ridiculous. I can assure you my life has great meaning and it's not a notion in my head, my meaning and purpose also has consequences on others around me. Certainly no fantasy, I help cancer patients, you are free to ask them if my life is meaningless
bonnie43uk Again, you are missing the point. What makes you think that helping cancer patients is the purpose of your life. You just made an arbitrary choice. You could have made a different choice and it would have been equally valid in your view. Therefore, there is no objective meaning of life. It is just subjective. Whatever you make it to be. If someone think that his purpose is to steal others money, how is that different than your purpose? It is just a choice. Just like yours.
It's simple, Jesus stands at the door of your heart and knocks. If you reject Him and deny Him, you made your choice. If you keep making that same choice, He will deny you when the judgement comes. If you accept Christ, His blood covers your sin. He speaks up for you. You have a passionate benefactor on that day. You live without evil in your heart, no malice, no envy, etc. until that day. Whether it's one day or a million.
@@dperkins01 what, the Bible teaches you these things. You invite Christ into your heart. The blood of Christ washes away sin for us , as we are, in our condition, and at the judgement. He will be at the Bema seat. Those He knows are His. Those He doesn't, he may have to say, you did all you did, but I never knew you. Those souls go to the Father for theirs. This is why having a savior in Christ is so important. We are washed in the blood. Did you not know? Now's the time to find out if you're not being taught. You can check with Dr. Gene Kim. He can give the scriptures that illustrate this, he can draw you a picture if you think only worldly thoughts. You can begin to grasp the meanings, who they were said to, and how much of it directly applies if you rightly divide and apply scripture with historical an cultural reference to deduce from it, what it means to mankind. The sacrifices of animals in the old covenant were a "covering over" for sin. The death on the cross and the blood on the mercy seat are our sign for redemption. "Washed in the blood of the lamb" Do you not understand?
if you kick a homeless person, there may be a consequence, if you kick a policeman there may be a more serious consequence, if you kick a judge there be an even more serious consequence, if you kick a president you'll probably get blown away by security, if you kick a member of royalty it probs even worse. If you offend an eternal being, the punishment would be eternal by definition. it's not the act, it's who you offend. what hitler did was unjust, don't you think its just to apply the same?
1 Peter 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
If you referring to what you took out of context, and this has already been visited, as you well know, why would I desire to stray off the path of truth. You need to seek the truth. Why do you fear so?
What Cliffe doesn’t explain to this kids is that there is probably some patriarch/matriarch somewhere down the line in their family that believed in God or some god and developed their idea of what is good/bad based on their belief in God or a god. I highly doubt that these kids come from a family of atheists for thousands of years.
They probably could bro but main thing is to have them understand it doesnt matter where you come from or where you start, learn and read for yourself then converse with others.
That didn't have anything to do with my statement, CS. If you're just doing what Cliffe does and picking random answers from a hat, I don't see much incentive to continue this discussion with you.
Everyone On the planet Knows that God exists and is without excuse. Truth presupposes a God. Now look into the Gospels and find that Jesus is reliable and trust in Him. Stop running away from the God you KNOW exists.
+Alangiuroiu Everyone on the planet obviously doesn't know that a god exist otherwise there would be no athiests. It is obvious that not eveyone knows your god otherwise there would be only one religion.
Sure they do, we all know a creator exists most people do. Jesus claimed to be God and I trust because of enough evidence to point to him being reliable and trusting. Its foolish to not believe in God. Its like me saying I don't believe in words. Its clear a God exists. You can choose to suppress the truth of your knowledge of God its your choice. Its like trying to hold down a beach ball under water its very hard but you can hold it down. Many follow myths Jesus is no myth. There is only 1 truth and its found in Jesus. Please read the Gospels for yourself. Many Hypocrites in this world including Christians ect.. follow Jesus not man. Read the book of John and tell me Jesus is not someone to look into. If you have then why not trust in him? Again everyone knows God exists but choose not to submit to his authority. Thanks
Alangiuroiu Despite what you say it is NOT evident that a god exists and less evident still that that god is the one you worship. If he was evident why are there other religions?
Its pretty easy a child could understand 1.A watch has a maker/Designer 2.A painting has a painter 3.A Building has a builder 4.A Plane has a maker/Designer 5.A planet/Universe has a creator/designer Even the Moral Argument is enough to conclude that there has to be some type of creator. We can talk about if you wish. Its more plausible to use this logic then to say other wise. I cannot prove or disprove there is a God. So with this reasoning/logic I need some evidence IF a God really exists what are my options?? I have studied some of the Leading religions and only 2 have reasonable tangible evidence for there faith/God being True. ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY We don't have to go into why i didn't go with Muhammad I am sure you have seen the evil/Violence its faith teaches in the Quran which i am currently reading. I look at the way Jesus lived taught and what happened after he Died. The evidence points to him being trustworthy. If you search there is plenty of evidence for putting your faith in jesus and not in Atheism or any other option. Thank you.
Alangiuroiu What is your experience of universes being created? We know buildings and planes have creators because we have experience of their creation but you have no experience of any universes being created at all. Therefore you cannot say a god is responsible.
TheMirabillis is right. There is no objective basis for morality without someone/something outside the natural realm defining that basis. vulpix has yet to rebut this adequately.
Only GOD knows the complexities and depths of each human. Don't go to hell because others don't want GOD by not wanting to give up their sin. Don't become a reprobate. Proverbs 3:5-6
So? Sending a person to a place where you know they will be torture is nearly morally equivalent to torturing them yourself. You still worship a monster who willingly sends people to be tortured.
And if you kick the president, the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution still protects you from torture: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
why can,t people just accept the fact that Holy Father is real, if God doesn't exist-then we don't either, and why do people keep ranting about that they believe that God is false just because there is many people that are poor and sick in the world, People don't starve because of God, or because they don't Pray enough, ITS BECAUSE NO ONE HELPS THEIR FELLOW MAN, they rant at us- Where was God? I say- Where were YOU???
If there is no God, the "objectively verifiable evidence" is subjective since it varies between who you talk to or which society you're in. Objective morals can only exist if there is a mind before human's minds to create that moral law. So if there is no mind before human mind to govern that, it is subjective to each human individual that you talk too.
Es muy triste ver tanta incredilidad en las UNIVERSIDADES. Tanta sabiduría, que el Creador y Dios en Cristo Jesús les ha dado. Y aun así, prefieren creer que después de la muerte, no hay nada más. Duele el alma, que nosotros cono hombres, entre más letra sabemos, más necios y tercos llegamos a ser. Que la gracia de nuestro Señor Jesucristo, sea con cada uno de nosotros. En el nombre del Señor Jesús. Amén !!!
Nothing you or any Atheist you can say, can change a mind transformed by YHWH. Once again, your motive is to attempt to bring deception onto the truth, impossible. 'Yea, hath God saith?'
But wait, you guys keep trying to convince me that these are OBJECTIVE, ABSOLUTE morals. Now you're telling me that moral systems change over time? Make up your minds!
Fish can swim, birds can fly, snakes can slither, human beings can reason with human reason. So ? Nature is "indifferent" to all of that. Treating human beings "as if" they are intrinsically morally valuable & have intrinsic moral worth is a subjective illusion. If God does not exist then we are just a result of chance & when we die there is nothing after that. Any purpose, value, moral & meaning I give life is my own. There is nothing that is really good or bad & right or wrong.
So you are saying two different things here, first: anything god does is morally correct, and second: He would not kill/torture/cause pain because he is all good. The problem here is that the first claims that he creates morals, but the secondclaims he subscribes to morals that exist outside of Himself. If the first is true then God's definition of "good" loses all meaning and is simply "what god does." If the second is true then God is not a requirement for morals
Cutting a head of lettuce is a gain without infringing on anyone's rights... cutting offf your head Cliffe would infringe upon your rights, for no (good) reason. That is why I won't do it.
Perhaps, but you can't fix that problem with Christianity. It suffers the same limitations, only kicking the problem up to someone else to deal with, which doesn't actually solve it.
Uh, no, I just kept pressing you to actually address the issue and you refused (like you are doing again). My basis of morality is the definition of morality. I don't know how you aren't understanding this. Perhaps you should tell me your basis to illustrate, and we can see what isn't sinking in from that.
well hell is the penalty for rejecting God. which is death not a physical death but a spiritual death and you will be torchered in hell by hearing all the times you had the chance to embrace God but you did not. Also keep in mined the hell was not made for us it was made for lucifer and his fallen angels.
Why are you on this thread ? You obviously didn't listen to Cliffe's video. You have not shown yet that human beings have intrinsic moral value & worth. You are only assuming so. // The atheist must assess the objective evidence to determine the best source of action in life. // The best source of action ? What is our aim and purpose in life then ?
This logic is based purely on the assumption that there has to be a purpose to life and ultimate justice... why must there? Life doesn't come with a guarantee card.
+Jason Hood Nah dude, haven't you heard the news lately. There's a new swipe card that's out & it's guaranteed, it's called (Gateway to heaven). You simply get it from the bank and pay £500 but your credit rating has to be really good & there's an integrity test similar to lie-detector that you have to sit down for which takes roughly 1 hour to do. Once you've passed it your guaranteed to go heaven. Just being a little humorous dude :D.
This logic is based on one idea: If there is no God that intentionally designed creation, then there is no ultimate point. If you accept there is no God, then you must also accept that there is no purpose to life. If there is no point to life, why live? If you do live, what lie are you going to embrace? That logical progression is inescapable Unless, you choose to intentionally avoid it. Of course, if you avoid that, then you have to avoid the associated arguments. Morality, direction, discipline (self or for children), etc.. That will make you very irresponsible & ultimately unhappy. That is running from life & God. That is what Cliffe is saying. God tells you to choose life. You need to grapple with those issues, rather than avoid them. They all drive back to purpose. Which forces you to face the first question set again, are you willing to accept the possibility of God, or are you going to choose another lie to embrace. How did it work out last time? Embracing that lie I mean. The choice is yours, but you have to take the good with the bad. If you accept there is no God as fact (even a weak one, that is more likely than not), then you must deal with the logical end of that belief. I have to do the same as a believer. You are forced to choose, that is inevitable.
Well first off, I'm not fighting because your god doesn't actually exist. But secondly, even if he DID, his punishments are both illegitimate and excessive. I would have no choice but to oppose a monster like that. I don't "repent" to tyrants, JiL, I defy them and aid others to escape them.
Have you died? How do you know that? There's is also evidence for NDE's. As far as humans having worth and value? Well arguing certainly shows there is value especially between conscious beings like us? Would you prefer people to believe they are worthless?
My wife and I are considering visiting Conn this summer and would love to attend your service. God bless and keep up the good work of Jesus.
Same exact thing here! Love watching cliffe!
This is the "no consequences, everyone is a winner, everyone gets a trophy" generation. Thats why they cant understand the concept of punishment for sin.
That was 8 years ago. Imagine now or 10 years from now. Scary
Facts
Cliff, you’ve been doing this for 30+ years I just recently started watching you and hearing what you have to say and I know you understand you’re calling which is from God but I want you to know how important is your ministry is so refreshing to hear you speak to those young College students and the way the Holy Spirit uses. You God bless you God bless your family. God bless your ministry thank you thank you thank you
I have ABSOLUTE faith in GOD ( I AM THAT I AM ) in the name of JESUS! This faith allows me to live out a life where I try to the best of my abilities to avoid sin and evil thoughts, words and actions!
@@darkeen42 how about you learn where the misinformation you got came from, DERP! indoctrinated fool
@@darkeen42 moon idol worshipper :3
I could never do what you do. Your patience is commendable. God bless you Cliff, I pray these kids wake up.
I thank my Lord God for my life.
Cliffe you hit the nail on the head, Well done Cliffe.
I always wonder how many of these students find Christ after he speaks to them.
"Hell" simply means separation from God. If the student doesn't want to go to hell,
all he needs to do is accept God and stop running away from him.
these videos always brighten up my day. thanks!
All human beings know for certain that God's unique qualities and activities are factual,
and this includes you.
8:40
Cliffe should mention that it's good that God is just.
Forgiveness and justice are good things.
For people who might do horrible things, get away with it and are unrepentent.
Awesome Cactus....
11:51 -- The boy who self-identifies as atheist says "I don't know that I'm right."
Bingo!
LOL
=)
Your awesome cliffs
When I hear the way these kids think, it's truly scary. It seems obvious that their parents have done a horrible job in parenting.
They literally have no hope in them. Which makes them incredibly dangerous to society and mankind as a whole.
good stuff
In order to have morals, you must have a moral, law giver.
Why should I have an obligation to live life the way you believe I should live ? Why should I subject myself under your way of viewing things instead of my own ? It is not that I am going to get rewarded or punished when I die. So, why should I or anyone else have a obligation to stop what we are doing & 'fall into line' on what you think ?
8:27 The kid is sayin he doesnt wanna believe in hell, something never proven to exist, and Cliffe says, "Sir, you gotta deal with reality" 😅🥴😜😂😂😂😅😭😭😭😭
Also, "if goodness never wins, then life is meaningless" is a horrific way to think. Just ponder on how many injustices happen on earth....any of those goin under "Almighty God's" radar would mean everybody's life is meaningless? A couple tourists get killed, no one is ever caught, and their murderers go on to have loving families and live to be elderly. Aaaand now, since there's no justice ......life was meaningless?!? What kinda messy logic is that ish? Haha.
And how are Mother Teresa and Hitler remembered now, by the way? Oh, that's why you used those examples, cause of the historical evidence of how they each lived?...right right, that is some stuff you'd say, ain't it?
Well it feels good because we have evolved to be a social species that flourishes by helping each other... and morally because in order to be consistent with our beliefs that 1. we should have good done to us, by anybody, and that 2. because we are no different than anybody, therefore everybody deserves to have good done to them by anybody.
Beautiful
That young fellow is on purpose running away from the truth. If someone said to him… It would be ok if someone came & tortured & raped your family members & stole all your belongings - then he would know something was really ( objectively ) bad and wrong with that.
Does anyone know the theme music that’s played at the end?
do you have the footage of that? would be kinda interesting to see what he resorts to when he is faced with a competent adversary
How do you define evil, without a standard?
The O2 tube stop has a world wide shoe shop called Dune founded and run by a Daniel.
Do I have to register?
"Uli doesn't care about anything. He's a Nihilist..."
"That must be exhausting."
How did I miss that debate? Do you know where i can watch it now?
17:50 this guy has just admitted that would have kill, tortured and experimented with jews in the German Nazi times: it was legal, society woulndn’t reprehensive him and it would have made him happy because was a social movement. This is the atheist real outcome: absolute evil
what's Cliffes stats in his college days and what his position in basketball.
I am not confusing intrinsic to material. Suppose I got killed in a car accident tomorrow. The result being that there is nothing after when I die.
Why should I have an obligation to live life the way you believe I should live ? Why should I subject myself under your way of viewing things instead of my own ? It is not that I am going to get rewarded or punished when I die. So, why should I or anyone else have a obligation to stop what we are doing & 'fall into line' on what you think ?
Well he is talking to passer bys who never expected or prepared to be doing that when they woke up in the morning.. it's harder to think on the spot when Cliffe is asking them things that they may have never thought about before.
sooo... are you atheist or not? kinda late but; ¿are you?
According to whose standard?
Because it's not a fact. Facts are demonstrable.
The young man doesn’t want to accept the amazing gift God gives us through His Son Jesus because the other option or possibility of going to hell is a concept too horrible to accept? Well I’m wondering if someone offered him a brand new car, would he not take it because there have been too many lives ruined in terrible accidents and have suffered or because the possibility of crashing and dying while driving is just too horrible of a thought to accept? 🤔 I just don’t understand how people can refuse such an amazing offer from God when given the opportunity yet instead will hypothetically focus more on what will happen if they don’t accept it? But as Cliffe said usually it’s because they don’t want to let go of their sin 😒 I just pray they realize how amazing God’s love, grace and mercy is before it’s too late 😔🙏🏼
Declining the car would mean burning for eternity, I guess.
Why do all of these college atheists ask the same questions?
at about 14:18 Cliffe says if there is nothing after death, life is meaningless, I would wholeheartedly disagree with that. I believe this is our only life, and it's up to us to make the most out of it, my life certainly doesn't lack meaning, life is a wonderful adventure to be explored and lived. Not all of us are lucky enough to live in relative comfort, millions around the world aren't afforded that luxury, they have to contend with poverty, starvation, war,disease, and any number of other set backs, we are the lucky ones, we can help those who are in need in any number of ways, giving to charities, or maybe volunteer work. We are fortunate to be in the position we find ourselves, and we can help others. Life is what you make it.
You are wrong on all counts.
***** This is my own personal view 1GodOnlyOne, other views are available. :-)
bonnie43uk The point Cliffe is making is that if there is nothing after death then there is no objective meaning of life. People can create a meaning for their life but that is just a notion in your head, it is not reality. The meaning of your life is just a made up belief. You are just deluding yourself. It is no different than a person who imagines himself in fantasy world.
MrSlickJerk Yes, but that is ridiculous. I can assure you my life has great meaning and it's not a notion in my head, my meaning and purpose also has consequences on others around me. Certainly no fantasy, I help cancer patients, you are free to ask them if my life is meaningless
bonnie43uk Again, you are missing the point. What makes you think that helping cancer patients is the purpose of your life. You just made an arbitrary choice. You could have made a different choice and it would have been equally valid in your view. Therefore, there is no objective meaning of life. It is just subjective. Whatever you make it to be. If someone think that his purpose is to steal others money, how is that different than your purpose? It is just a choice. Just like yours.
You know how on some days when you wake up and your like dang I woke up, if death is like being asleep well that would be great of itself.
It's simple, Jesus stands at the door of your heart and knocks.
If you reject Him and deny Him, you made your choice.
If you keep making that same choice, He will deny you when the judgement comes.
If you accept Christ, His blood covers your sin. He speaks up for you. You have a passionate benefactor on that day.
You live without evil in your heart, no malice, no envy, etc. until that day. Whether it's one day or a million.
his blood covers you, take a second and listen to yourself. wow
@@dperkins01 what, the Bible teaches you these things.
You invite Christ into your heart.
The blood of Christ washes away sin for us , as we are, in our condition, and at the judgement.
He will be at the Bema seat.
Those He knows are His.
Those He doesn't, he may have to say, you did all you did, but I never knew you.
Those souls go to the Father for theirs.
This is why having a savior in Christ is so important.
We are washed in the blood.
Did you not know?
Now's the time to find out if you're not being taught.
You can check with Dr. Gene Kim.
He can give the scriptures that illustrate this, he can draw you a picture if you think only worldly thoughts.
You can begin to grasp the meanings, who they were said to, and how much of it directly applies if you rightly divide and apply scripture with historical an cultural reference to deduce from it, what it means to mankind.
The sacrifices of animals in the old covenant were a "covering over" for sin.
The death on the cross and the blood on the mercy seat are our sign for redemption.
"Washed in the blood of the lamb"
Do you not understand?
@@dperkins01 that’s why He died yes. His innocent sinless blood covers a multitude of sin
Like this
if you kick a homeless person, there may be a consequence, if you kick a policeman there may be a more serious consequence, if you kick a judge there be an even more serious consequence, if you kick a president you'll probably get blown away by security, if you kick a member of royalty it probs even worse. If you offend an eternal being, the punishment would be eternal by definition.
it's not the act, it's who you offend. what hitler did was unjust, don't you think its just to apply the same?
Doing that to ANYONE is unjust. Simply by definition alone.
By what standard of justice?
What do you mean "standard?"
@@ToastyMcGrath what is justice? What’s your standard for justifying what justice is?
@@jtslev I don't know what you mean by "standard." Justice doesn't work like that.
@@ToastyMcGrath what’s justice? That’s all I’m asking. You called something unjust, by definition. I’m just wondering what your definition is??
Why can’t this kid get it 👏
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
1 John 5:19 😈
maybe you dont get it?
1 Peter 4:14
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
There is no reason to look at something is just a misdirection.
It seems you don't know what the words 'contingent' or 'eternal' mean.
and 'Ol Fred went nuts......
Morality would be defined by His nature.
Torture is never just, JiL. Eternal torture is thus the most evil crime possible.
Someone hurt this young man. Would love to know where he’s at now.
If you referring to what you took out of context, and this has already been visited, as you well know, why would I desire to stray off the path of truth. You need to seek the truth. Why do you fear so?
What Cliffe doesn’t explain to this kids is that there is probably some patriarch/matriarch somewhere down the line in their family that believed in God or some god and developed their idea of what is good/bad based on their belief in God or a god. I highly doubt that these kids come from a family of atheists for thousands of years.
They probably could bro but main thing is to have them understand it doesnt matter where you come from or where you start, learn and read for yourself then converse with others.
I can't accept that the holy father was real because it would be irrational given the evidence I have seen.
That didn't have anything to do with my statement, CS. If you're just doing what Cliffe does and picking random answers from a hat, I don't see much incentive to continue this discussion with you.
Everyone On the planet Knows that God exists and is without excuse. Truth presupposes a God. Now look into the Gospels and find that Jesus is reliable and trust in Him. Stop running away from the God you KNOW exists.
+Alangiuroiu Everyone on the planet obviously doesn't know that a god exist otherwise there would be no athiests. It is obvious that not eveyone knows your god otherwise there would be only one religion.
Sure they do, we all know a creator exists most people do. Jesus claimed to be God and I trust because of enough evidence to point to him being reliable and trusting. Its foolish to not believe in God. Its like me saying I don't believe in words. Its clear a God exists. You can choose to suppress the truth of your knowledge of God its your choice. Its like trying to hold down a beach ball under water its very hard but you can hold it down. Many follow myths Jesus is no myth. There is only 1 truth and its found in Jesus. Please read the Gospels for yourself. Many Hypocrites in this world including Christians ect.. follow Jesus not man. Read the book of John and tell me Jesus is not someone to look into. If you have then why not trust in him? Again everyone knows God exists but choose not to submit to his authority. Thanks
Alangiuroiu
Despite what you say it is NOT evident that a god exists and less evident still that that god is the one you worship. If he was evident why are there other religions?
Its pretty easy a child could understand
1.A watch has a maker/Designer
2.A painting has a painter
3.A Building has a builder
4.A Plane has a maker/Designer
5.A planet/Universe has a creator/designer
Even the Moral Argument is enough to conclude that there has to be some type of creator. We can talk about if you wish.
Its more plausible to use this logic then to say other wise. I cannot prove or disprove there is a God. So with this reasoning/logic I need some evidence IF a God really exists what are my options?? I have studied some of the Leading religions and only 2 have reasonable tangible evidence for there faith/God being True.
ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY
We don't have to go into why i didn't go with Muhammad I am sure you have seen the evil/Violence its faith teaches in the Quran which i am currently reading.
I look at the way Jesus lived taught and what happened after he Died. The evidence points to him being trustworthy. If you search there is plenty of evidence for putting your faith in jesus and not in Atheism or any other option. Thank you.
Alangiuroiu
What is your experience of universes being created? We know buildings and planes have creators because we have experience of their creation but you have no experience of any universes being created at all. Therefore you cannot say a god is responsible.
TheMirabillis is right. There is no objective basis for morality without someone/something outside the natural realm defining that basis. vulpix has yet to rebut this adequately.
Only GOD knows the complexities and depths of each human. Don't go to hell because others don't want GOD by not wanting to give up their sin. Don't become a reprobate.
Proverbs 3:5-6
Either that, or give me the definition of morality. Either choice, I leave it up to you.
Wait, what makes a magical fairy tale character necessary for morality?
So? Sending a person to a place where you know they will be torture is nearly morally equivalent to torturing them yourself. You still worship a monster who willingly sends people to be tortured.
That's what every former-Christian I've ever met once said.
And if you kick the president, the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution still protects you from torture:
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
why can,t people just accept the fact that Holy Father is real, if God doesn't exist-then we don't either, and why do people keep ranting about that they believe that God is false just because there is many people that are poor and sick in the world, People don't starve because of God, or because they don't Pray enough, ITS BECAUSE NO ONE HELPS THEIR FELLOW MAN, they rant at us- Where was God? I say- Where were YOU???
If there is no God, the "objectively verifiable evidence" is subjective since it varies between who you talk to or which society you're in. Objective morals can only exist if there is a mind before human's minds to create that moral law. So if there is no mind before human mind to govern that, it is subjective to each human individual that you talk too.
He didn't do that.
So do you deny that the hell he sends people to is a place of pain and torment?
It's the eternal separation of your soul from God, not the eternal torture of your physical body.
@@JohnjOcampo That's a more respectable interpretation than I usually get, but you do realize the VAST majority of Christians believe otherwise.
It's more coherent than theism.
TH-cam member "Toasty McGrath" is a liar.
Es muy triste ver tanta incredilidad en las UNIVERSIDADES.
Tanta sabiduría, que el Creador y Dios en Cristo Jesús les ha dado.
Y aun así, prefieren creer que después de la muerte, no hay nada más.
Duele el alma, que nosotros cono hombres, entre más letra sabemos, más necios y tercos llegamos a ser.
Que la gracia de nuestro Señor Jesucristo, sea con cada uno de nosotros.
En el nombre del Señor Jesús.
Amén !!!
Nothing you or any Atheist you can say, can change a mind transformed by YHWH. Once again, your motive is to attempt to bring deception onto the truth, impossible. 'Yea, hath God saith?'
But wait, you guys keep trying to convince me that these are OBJECTIVE, ABSOLUTE morals. Now you're telling me that moral systems change over time? Make up your minds!
That guy in the blue shirt is very very lost. I hope someone can guide him properly. Because, it is sad to hear him speak
Fish can swim, birds can fly, snakes can slither, human beings can reason with human reason. So ? Nature is "indifferent" to all of that. Treating human beings "as if" they are intrinsically morally valuable & have intrinsic moral worth is a subjective illusion.
If God does not exist then we are just a result of chance & when we die there is nothing after that. Any purpose, value, moral & meaning I give life is my own. There is nothing that is really good or bad & right or wrong.
Forgive them
Why improve the lives of others? Why is that good??
Yes, the atheist does have faith that something came from nothing.
Repent of what? Everything that we do is necessary to us. What do you have to say about it?
He did not lie?? he was challenged.Open ur eyes!!!!! Jesus is the way and the Truth!
So you are saying two different things here, first: anything god does is morally correct, and second: He would not kill/torture/cause pain because he is all good. The problem here is that the first claims that he creates morals, but the secondclaims he subscribes to morals that exist outside of Himself. If the first is true then God's definition of "good" loses all meaning and is simply "what god does." If the second is true then God is not a requirement for morals
My comments [ were only ] in regards to demonstrating to Vulpix the state of affairs in the absence of the existence of God.
I didn't say that. I said something/someone external has to be the objective basis for morality. Atheism entails no objective basis for morality.
Cutting a head of lettuce is a gain without infringing on anyone's rights... cutting offf your head Cliffe would infringe upon your rights, for no (good) reason. That is why I won't do it.
This comment is a decade old
Perhaps, but you can't fix that problem with Christianity. It suffers the same limitations, only kicking the problem up to someone else to deal with, which doesn't actually solve it.
Evolution vs God . C o m. If you are an atheist, prepare to have your faith shaken.
Sorry dude, I've given my email to enough forums.
Uh, no, I just kept pressing you to actually address the issue and you refused (like you are doing again).
My basis of morality is the definition of morality. I don't know how you aren't understanding this. Perhaps you should tell me your basis to illustrate, and we can see what isn't sinking in from that.
well hell is the penalty for rejecting God. which is death not a physical death but a spiritual death and you will be torchered in hell by hearing all the times you had the chance to embrace God but you did not. Also keep in mined the hell was not made for us it was made for lucifer and his fallen angels.
Why are you on this thread ? You obviously didn't listen to Cliffe's video. You have not shown yet that human beings have intrinsic moral value & worth. You are only assuming so.
// The atheist must assess the objective evidence to determine the best source of action in life. //
The best source of action ? What is our aim and purpose in life then ?
This logic is based purely on the assumption that there has to be a purpose to life and ultimate justice... why must there? Life doesn't come with a guarantee card.
+Jason Hood Nah dude, haven't you heard the news lately. There's a new swipe card that's out & it's guaranteed, it's called (Gateway to heaven). You simply get it from the bank and pay £500 but your credit rating has to be really good & there's an integrity test similar to lie-detector that you have to sit down for which takes roughly 1 hour to do. Once you've passed it your guaranteed to go heaven. Just being a little humorous dude :D.
This logic is based on one idea: If there is no God that intentionally designed creation, then there is no ultimate point. If you accept there is no God, then you must also accept that there is no purpose to life. If there is no point to life, why live? If you do live, what lie are you going to embrace?
That logical progression is inescapable Unless, you choose to intentionally avoid it. Of course, if you avoid that, then you have to avoid the associated arguments. Morality, direction, discipline (self or for children), etc.. That will make you very irresponsible & ultimately unhappy. That is running from life & God. That is what Cliffe is saying.
God tells you to choose life. You need to grapple with those issues, rather than avoid them. They all drive back to purpose. Which forces you to face the first question set again, are you willing to accept the possibility of God, or are you going to choose another lie to embrace. How did it work out last time? Embracing that lie I mean.
The choice is yours, but you have to take the good with the bad. If you accept there is no God as fact (even a weak one, that is more likely than not), then you must deal with the logical end of that belief. I have to do the same as a believer. You are forced to choose, that is inevitable.
And frankly, I wouldn't trust Bill Craig's website with it. I don't trust that man as far as I can throw him.
Yikes, the way this kid thinks
Well first off, I'm not fighting because your god doesn't actually exist. But secondly, even if he DID, his punishments are both illegitimate and excessive. I would have no choice but to oppose a monster like that. I don't "repent" to tyrants, JiL, I defy them and aid others to escape them.
So if His nature was to kill and torture and cause pain, then that would be seen as moral to us humans?
"Nuh-uh"?
So now hell is just the death penalty? You used to be okay with it being a torture chamber before, why the sudden change from you, JiL?
Have you died? How do you know that? There's is also evidence for NDE's.
As far as humans having worth and value? Well arguing certainly shows there is value especially between conscious beings like us? Would you prefer people to believe they are worthless?
Let me put it this way, JiL. I've never thrown a human being into a lake of fire. That makes "sinfulness" far less evil than your god's crimes.
So that's your best excuse? To water down the meaning of torture?