Let's Edit! Ep. #1: Fixing a Boring Scene YA Fantasy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Let's edit a scene together!
Several people have asked what I mean by "glue" holding the paragraph together. I forgot to mention that I have a video that goes over writing strong paragraphs as well as two videos on writing strong descriptions. Sorry about that! These videos give an in-depth explanation of most of the concepts I'm applying in this video.
Writing stronger paragraphs: • 5 Ways to Write Better...
Writing stronger descriptions part 1: • 5 Ways to Write Better...
Writing stronger descriptions part 2: • 5 MORE Ways to Write B...
Support our volunteer Cabrielle Holden
Instagram: @cabrielleholden
Website: www.cabrielleholden.com
Support me on Patreon: / ellenbrock
Several people have asked what I mean by "glue" holding the paragraph together. I forgot to mention that I have a video that goes over writing strong paragraphs as well as two videos on writing strong descriptions. Sorry about that! These videos give an in-depth explanation of most of the concepts I'm applying in this video.
Writing stronger paragraphs: th-cam.com/video/xP_vXBvEboA/w-d-xo.html
Writing stronger descriptions part 1: th-cam.com/video/kHnJdWNUfus/w-d-xo.html
Writing stronger descriptions part 2: th-cam.com/video/WbbEJ6ziCjo/w-d-xo.html
Hey Ellen, I'm working with my kids on homeschool work and we are just starting to talk about the heroes journey and story structure. Really appreciate your series and the hard work you do here.
Thank you, 10/10 for being helpful
Do editors typically have to edit a novel this much? I suspect mine would require far more even than this.
i’m really impressed. nice work. 🎉
Ellen, thank you so SO much for doing this for me! I don't think I can express just how much I appreciate it. I'm planning on self publishing this novel in late October this year, and I can't afford an editor, so I have been trying to learn as much about editing as possible from your channel. When you posted on patreon asking for volunteers I could not send that email fast enough! You've given me so much valuable information, and I have learned so much from this one video (not to mention your other editing videos). I have so much to think about. Thank you from the bottom of my heart! -Cabby
Thank YOU so much for letting me look at your second chapter! It was super brave and I know everyone will learn a lot! Also, please let me know when you publish and I'll give you a shoutout. Thanks!
@@EllenBrock 😲🥰 I totally will! ♥️
best of luck for the book! this video is really valuable to see real world examples of editing concepts in action so thank you so much for letting us all benefit from it 😊
@@munafruit Awww thank you! I am happy to share. I was surprisingly not even embarrassed. Lol
@@cabrielleholdenthank you for providing your draft to us!❤❤❤
If she’s searching for blue lights in the woods, the increasing daylight would make it more challenging. That feels like a ticking clock that could make sense.
Good point! Somehow that did not occur to me.
I enjoy watching editors at work. You are great at explaining your reasoning for each edit and how it improves the scene. I think you should continue this series.
Awesome! Thank you!
@@EllenBrockplease do continue this series!!
I hope you guys enjoy this new type of video!
I wanted to clarify that the edited version here would not be the final version. These would be suggestions for the writer to take and make their own changes/edits. That is why sometimes I might recommend the writer cut something, but the sentence no longer is grammatically correct with the cut words. The writer would reword according to their own preferences. Editors give you a jumping off point and might demonstrate some options, but the writer would be the one to truly alter the writing and bring it closer to a final draft. I just wanted to clarify this because it is a common misconception that editors rewrite for the writer.
I also wanted to say that unfortunately due to ongoing health issues, I am not taking on editing projects right now. Sorry!
Thanks again to Cabrielle for volunteering to be the first victim of this series! Show her some love and gratitude on instagram: @cabrielleholden.
Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks for watching!
-Ellen
Your suggestions were very clear and on point, as always. Thank you for sharing that kind of content. It's so interesting to watch you doing your thing on a real work in progress! I can't wait to see more of it, and the video about hiring freelance edifors sounds interesting too. Also, I hope you feel better soon. All the best!
This is exactly the kind of video people need, so they can also understand why it's worth getting an editor for their manuscript. :)
Very helpful video! How can I volunteer to be a victim haha
More of this, please, please, please. So useful going line by line. Not enough TH-cam videos edit prose so closely and constructively.
Facts. Content like this is crack to me.
I've found my people
More like Ellen Rock(s)
I don't understand why she needs the horse at all. It doesn't seem like she's more than a hundred or so yards from her house at any given time, it would probably take longer to saddle the horse than it would to just walk down the path to the insects.
As for the insects, the impression I got is that finding these insects would be an impressive feat though as in they're rare or something, yet she finds them almost immediately and within sight of her house. It would make more sense to me if these insects are hard to find, such as they only frequent a particular plant or flower, which could also explain why she must go at this time, perhaps there is a flower that only blooms in the morning and that's the only time she can find the insects.
Great video as usual.
Please, more of this. It's such a great help. You are helping me so much. Thank you. Love your videos.
So good to hear! Thank you!
I struggle to understand if she is on the horse or off the horse. She mounts the horse. She walked the horse and it walked along. She walked Novi. She gripped the reigns and walked the horse. Pulled him to a stop, nudged novi, and they walked in silence. They were deep enough in that it was easier to walk. She turned in the saddle.
Maybe the word trot could be used instead of walking. Maybe she rode novi at a leisurely pace, slowed the horse to a walk or a jog.
People like myself who haven't ridden horses may not know that walk is a term for riding slowly and it sounds like she is walking alongside Novi. I only know the term because I looked it up.
I do ride horses and find other things confusing like... when she slips in (off?) the saddle, then slips further, then grabs Novi's neck (she's slipped to the horse's side, but she should've slipped somewhat backwards too, so catching onto the neck is a bit tricky) and then he panicks and gallops when she's hanging on him but she still pulls herself into the saddle? This requires such a huge amount of skill and strength she clearly doesn't have if she's slipped so "easily" (no disrespect, it's never easy) earlier... Don't get me wrong, accidents happen to the most experienced and qthletic riders, but at least in the opening chapters I'd want some consistent character introduction.
I love this idea. So glad your channel has come back; I always look forward to hearing your insights.
Ellen - if your long absence from TH-cam combined with the good amount of views your videos always get aren’t already an indicator… then let me tell you … we want ANY AND ALL CONTENT YOU WILL GIVE US. You are so insightful and easy to understand. You’re an excellent teacher, and your TH-cam videos are some of the most valuable in this genre. The old ones and the newer ones.
I love this idea so much! It's a great help to my own editing process. I've started up again on a story that I've been on and off writing for three years, and alongside cultivating a daily writing habit I really want to improve my line editing, I feel like my dialogue and structuring always feels off.
A few things you can try with dialog are dictation, so you're capturing the rhythm of speech, or write the scenes in layers. Dialogue first, and then immediately go through the passage again to embellish with description, action, and dialog tags. When you're focusing on one thing at a time, it's easier on your brain then switching in and out of dialogue mode.
After writing consistently for a year, it's not something that I need to depend on as much, but it was a very useful tool when I was writing my first novel. (Just, when you try it, don't go back and try to do sentence surgery, it will reactivate your prefrontal cortex and ruin your flow state. Mark the sentence and fix it after you're done writing for the day, or after your done the draft; whatever you find works best.)
The other thing that helped me to reflect on how each character's personality affects their voice. I've taken Myers-Briggs tests as my characters to get a better sense of how they would approach problems and relate to each other.
For structure, in addition to conflict, you want hooks at the beginning and end of each chapter. It's not a cliff hanger, but a subtle reason for your reader to be curious or anticipate what's coming next in the story.
Sounds like an interesting beginning for a story. I like the fact that she seems to have a caring relationship with her father. A couple of possibly misfitting words : Tinge, instead of twinge. Isn't tinge a word to describe a color or hint of a taste? Usually something associated with the senses? While twinge is often used for emotions. And then, 'shall' vs 'shawl' on pg. 2. A shawl is a garment, but 'shall' is a verb. And then 'reigns' vs. 'reins'. First is to do with the rule of kings and queens, the 2nd is for the horse tack.
I liked the story and the dark woods. I think these reviews are fantastic for a series. Breaking down the paragraphs for focus was a lightbulb moment for me. And 'bravo' to the author for being the first to jump into the ring.
Thank you for your edit recommendations. I'm taking notes! 🥰
Adding this comment a little late but I do hope you continue with this series! I would love to learn more about the editing side of things.
I'm sorry you're dealing with health issues and I hope you feel better soon!
Thanks, Ellen. This was a great example and much better than a list of dos and don'ts.
Oh, I can't agree with you more! Somehow my brain gets so frightened by the "don'ts" videos of other youtubers that by the time I get to my desk "don't write!" is the only thing that stands out! Ellen is the only truly inspiring editor!❤
@@katarinamor I use Obsidian to create a knowledge graph (linked notes) on writing techniques and Ellen's videos help to fill in the gaps. She's great.
Thank you, Ellen. Your insights (on editing and all the other subjects) are so helpful and appreciated, and your work on Cabrielle's second chapter is a perfect way to illustrate the benefits and importance of the editing process.
Thank you for the video and and Cabrielle Holden for her bravery! It's gold, I hope to see more of this format in future.
😁 Thank you!
I love this type of videos. They are very insightful.
I always thought that editors would read the thing first before editing, but now thinking about it it makes sense to get those "first impressions" as a reader would
This is so helpful! Please keep this series up, it’s always easier with examples
This is far and away one of the most helpful videos on the craft of writing that I have watched. Thanks to you and Cabrielle.
Good on Gabrielle. And great series idea.
thank you. 🥰
The 50 minutes flew by before I knew it! It’s so helpful to see an editor in action. Thank you so much for this Ellen, I’d love to see more in this format! 😊
Thank you so much for this video!
I'd really like to see more videos like this. As for me, this format really contributes to any authors, since they can, firstly, gain experience and not make a bunch of mistakes, and they can, secondly, try to edit the scene from their perspective. On the whole, it was fabulous!
Best regards from an Ukrainian!
Keep up the great work, everyone!
Ellen, you're doing god's work here. Thank you so much! This format is amazing. As someone who only writes as a hobby and can't afford a real editor (and betas are hard to find) your content has helped me make tremendous strides in my editing skills and therefore my writing. I cannot thank you enough for this thorough line-by-line process. Please, if you can and want to, keep doing this!!
This is a fantastic idea for a series, more so that it includes real, tangible examples from a viewer. Currently writing this as I'm a third of the way through and your insights are already sparking ways I should tackle my own writing. Thank you, Ellen.
This type of video is SO helpful. I am at the editing stage of my first finished manuscript and it is so daunting to begin! This is really motivating, and insightful!
It's so, so indescribably helpful to see the inner workings and logic of this type of editing on a prose level. There is plenty of advise regarding plot structure and character arcs, but not many touch on prose (from what I've seen, anyway). It's one of those things where you know something is wrong, but you don't know how to fix it. The way you laid things out was so clear and concise, too. Girl, you earned another sub today! Please, please continue! c:
Maybe she’s being courteous because she’s worried that he hasn’t been sleeping well because of some stressor that becomes important.
Hey Ellen , This is my first video for you to watch iam amazed by the details example you provided, you are amazing inspirational educator i really enjoyed your relaxed and pleasant way go through these lessons please make one videos here regards IELTS general letter and essay with vital phrases ❤
I love this idea for a series! Examples help SO much and using really great examples has always been something I've loved about this channel. And getting to see actual editing live with an example just makes the examples even better and even more helpful
Not a writer at all but as a reader id also say that during the scene where she states that shed feel better if somebody knew where she was, that seems contradictory given that she did leave a note for her father, so while he doesnt know right away, if anything were to happen, somebody would eventually know where she is upon finding the note.
That's a great point!
@@cabrielleholden I'm intrigued to know where your story will go! 🥰
Definitely would love more of these. All your videos are so helpful, but this is a great complement to the videos that go over these things in more detail. It's great to see the different ways the same issues can play out with different writing styles, as I think it helps to pick up on the same issues in our own writing.
This was amazing! I especially found it educational when you made a new paragraph in the beginning. It showed very clearly how much better the storytelling became using your suggestions when there were two paragraphs to compare. Thank you again for a fantastic channel!
Hello Ellen! Great video as always! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I would love to see more videos like this one! So great to see all the principles of writing/editing that were explained in previous videos at work! And many thanks to Gabrielle for letting us look at her chapter!❤
Great video, love the emphasis on clarifying motivation and keeping up the tension-that can be so tough. I’d also recommend using some shorter, snappier paragraphs during action scenes to help with tension-it could be a good contrast to the long descriptive paragraphs as she walks out of the house and into the woods, and it can make it feel like everything is happening faster
this is great advice! Thank you! 🥰
Being quite a macro-focused mind, I really appreciate all your attention to micro details! Creating little arcs, movements across paragraphs has opened my mind up to new things to focus on while writing. Also really appreciating the value of an editor here - as a writer, I know the who, what, where, why and how, and I may omit things that seem clear to me but not to a reader who doesn't have the full picture. Thanks for a great vid! ❤
I love live edit! They’re so helpful. I can’t wait for more videos in this series. Thank you! And thank you to the author as well!
No problem! I was happy to do it. If I could get Ellen to edit my entire novel I totally would! 😆
@@cabrielleholden I hear you on that!
Congrats to the writer for finishing a novel (!) and for putting it out there so we can all benefit!
Your comments/edits were really interesting - you pinpointed reasons for things I noticed but couldn't identify the "why"
This is a completely personal thing, but I prefer "insect" to "bug." No reason lol
That part about the "without realising, she'd gone far into the woods" - the following sentences all show that she HAS noticed. I was missing a moment where she jolted out of the chase to realise.
I liked the necklace/pendent in mouth, but it's never mentioned that she takes it out of her mouth...
Same here actually! I can’t quite pin down why I’m not the biggest fan of ‘but ’, but I think ‘insect’ maybe sounds just a little bit more mature … maybe it’s a UK thing but over here, ‘bug’ is a word that pops up most often in kids’ books/vocabulary.
To the Author - 3/4 through and I have the same burning question that is really pulling me out of the story. Why bother with a horse if she's not even supposed to move out of sight of the house?
To Ellen - thanks VERY much. Some constructive criticism? I think (as you've no doubt realized) that a 2nd chapter is probably the worst possible chapter to do this on. Still so much world building, with no foundation from the first chapter. Hope you do more that are different chapters, or where you've read enough beforehand to hopefully not have so many unanswered Q's 😊. Thx!
This was so helpful. I have a fanfiction where two people are across the room from each other and so there's a lot of catching glances but it felt needlessly repetitive when I was reading it back although the actual exchanges are significant because their precursor to obviously talking in person. And I think it's because it's untethered in the text to the changes that are happening as we are incrementally getting closer to working up the nerve to talk. I know what's happening in her head and in her body because I'm the writer but I didn't effectively put it on the page. Why emotionally are we looking at the house so many times, why emotionally are they making eye contact so many times.
I love this style of video!
I would love to see more of these!
I love this idea so much!
i was just binging ur videos and u posted!!! so excited. thank you so much
I love when that happens! I hope you find this video helpful!
This is an excellent idea for a series. I'm grateful to both you and the writer for providing this content. It's great to see the inside workings of an editor's mind so that, as a writer, I can keep these thoughts and concepts in mind. Thank you so much! I look forward to the next one if there is a next one. 😊
This type of video is a fantastic idea, and I hope you continue with making a series.
Very insightful, Ellen. Thank you for the demonstration. I'd definitely love to see more of these types of videos.
Wow. You've brought so much clarity to editing a scene. I think that the better I can write my novel, the less work the editor will have to do to make it marketable. This is gold! Thank you.
At 35:00 this feels like the character is going out on her own so that something magical or horrible can happen to her. This happens so much in fantasy books that I cringe every time someone suggests a character take a walk.
Great video. Seeing you go through this process and explain the changes you would consider feels very helpful
Enjoyed that. To keep the visuals of her not wanting the floor to creak, I would have used crept, or say tiptoed, stepped lightly, instead of walked.
This is agreat topic and I can't wait to see more!
FANTASTIC video, Ellen. Just excellent.
I really like this format of video. More videos like this would be awesome. So helpful!
Thank you so much for this!! Please, keep going!
For me, this is the most useful, yet underserved type of video on writing. All writing is rewriting, and what we're able to see here is a demonstration of that. Of the thought processes and decisions being made (to a standard of professional excellence), that are required to take our craft to the next level.
Please do more of this 'Let's Edit' series Ellen, this was superb.
Big thanks to Cabby too for being brave enough to have her work critiqued on such a large platform, looking forward to reading the full book when it's released.
Wow! I learned so much from this. Thank you, Cabrielle and Ellen. You are both wonderfully talented and generous💖
Hi, I'm very late to the party but I have a few comments for the author on the offchance that they could still be relevant:
0. I agree about needing more internal conflict about the act itself, and I want to see her almost change her mind. Fear of the dark is good enough, and any teen who has this would be frustrated. Maybe her father made her promise never to even touch the path while she's alone, and it seems ridiculous enough to be worth disobeying (which provides mixed feelings on both sides: feeling bad about disobeying, and feeling frustrated by the dumb rule). IDEA: Maybe she took the horse so that she wouldn't be alone, showing that she knows how to find loopholes (very teenage behavior and a good skill to have when dealing with the fey)
1. I'd like to see more contrast between the home and the woods. Light vs shadow, misty vs clear, warm-color light vs cool-color light, etc. I guess I want to see a threshold crossed here. I agree that it's harder to see these things (blue lights) as it gets lighter, and that dawn is a weird time to do this. The magic system might allow dawn to be its own threshold, and perhaps that caused something magical that wouldn't normally happen. IDEA: Maybe she overslept, or was up at the right time but too scared to go outside, and is going out an hour or two later than she intended...this would also require a good reason that she felt she needed to do it that day.
2. I'd like to see either the correct equipment (like a net) or a good reason that she's never tried to catch a bug in her life (especially if she's experienced in drawing them). It doesn't make sense that she's swinging a jar at a swarm. It's okay for a character to botch a simple job they've never tried before, but as a reader I want to hear some internal real-time learning.
3. In my limited experience, bugs don't behave like that. If Victoria is experienced, she can reflect on an increasing list of unusual behaviors and grow more uneasy as the scene progresses. Or maybe they switch from drifting away from them to attacking because she caught one, but as a reader I'd like to see a concrete reason for the switch.
yes Ellen we need more than that
i really like this format for a video series! I'm a very visual storyteller, so my technical prose is definitely one of my weaker elements. many thanks to the author for contributing her work as well! since I can see she's also looking at further notes in the comments, I'm happy to give my general impression/unclear descriptions/thoughts on details. not for "I think this is how it should go" mandatory fix ofc, but because I always love hearing people's thoughts and guesses as to what's happening/will happen in my own stories, to gauge how effective my lore seeding is lol
in no particular order, numbered for legibility:
1) given the (working?) title has "fairy" in it, I assume these blue light bugs are some form of fairy/sprite/will o'wisp, and that their chasing the protagonist means they are somehow dangerous. the protagonist wasn't aware of this however, so I assume this is either a low-magic or portal/hidden world setting that would justify her lack of knowledge, esp as a teenager
2) she seems afraid of the dark though, but also possibly the woods specifically. which implies to me that she has had something influence her to have a negative perception of the dark and/or the woods, even if she can't place her finger on why. "keep the house in sight at all times" 100% comes off to me like something that was drilled into her head as a child by her father, which tells me that perhaps HE knows more than she has been made aware. general paternal overprotectiveness is one thing, but did he already know there were fairies in them woods? what is he doing so close to the woods if he's so strict about it? (I come from the countryside so "that's just where they live and that's just how he is to keep her from getting got by coyotes" is a valid answer, but that's what it makes me wonder lol)
3) from this snippet, my extrapolation is that he's a kind and caring father who wants to keep her safe, but did so by being incredibly strict about the dark/the forest/the house with very little verbalised justification outside of emphasizing the danger. a "just do what I say" kind of parent, who thinks telling the truth would only tempt her further into the dark and deep.
4) "keep the house in sight at all times" could be just one of those Overprotective Parent things, but it makes me consider the possibility of fairy shenanigans, which would make for a fun surprise for the reader (and an upsetting one for the protagonist lol). if the trail obviously leads back home, why is it so important? well, tricksy bullshit of course. idk how magical your forest is, but it sounds like there's a threshold of Too Deep, and my assumption is that if you go Too Deep and can't See your house, there's a risk of the path behind you changing or disappearing, closing you in and making you hopelessly lost, an easy target for further shenanigans. or, if you lose sight of your house for even a minute, the possibility of a FAKE image of your house appears, which would guide you like a mirage in the exact wrong direction. maybe your fairies aren't that mean, but I do love a good Mean Fairy lmao
5) given the back and forth pull and emotionality of the walk, I would personally enjoy more specific descriptions of the lay of the land and how the shape of it would influence her travel. I can picture "house" and "forest (trees)" and "sun cresting over (?)", but I'm kind of struggling to gauge distances. if you picked a specific type of terrain, I feel like it could really help clarify the things a bit, but also give you more to work with for the symbolism and emotionality. you mention a "tree line"; is it a forest that has a hard edge (literally crossing a boundary), or does it go from sparse to thick as she travels inward? is she perhaps traveling a path on a hill, so the view of the house is easier to maintain even as she gets "deeper" into the woods because she's also going upwards? is the HOUSE on a hill, so she can see it from a distance, but the canopy of the trees closing above her are what obscures her vision? inclines would also give you an additional factor to work into her terrified escape, whether ascending or descending, and help measure the "depth" at any given point.
6) this one is a little more of a straight suggestion lol, but for the moment when she tries to catch one of the bugs, fails, realizes she can't see her house anymore, then is chased, I would personally enjoy reading the realization from more of a POV-description? like she was so enamored with trying to catch one of these bugs (and they dodge, just out of reach, edging her further into the woods...) that it's only when she whirls around to look back that she realizes the trees have closed around her and she can't see the house from the way she came. whether or not it's a fairy trap snapping shut is up to you and what happens later in the book, but that's what it feels like to me (see above: tricksy fairy shenanigans, or maybe just having fun scaring the hell out of this human child lmao)
7) I love a good "nope, nope, ain't touching that" horse reaction lmao #thehorsewasright
good luck with your book!! I hope some of this was useful or interesting lolol
I think this may be one of the most valuable writing videos I've seen. It's definitely earned a click on that subscribe button. Thank you very much for the detailed walkthrough. And thank you to Cabrielle Holden for being brave enough to share her work like this. Serious, serious street cred.
Thank you so much, Cabrielle and Ellen! ❤
Love this series idea yeah yes yes
I love this format! I always enjoy thorough dissections of subjects. I think it could be used to explore different types of scenes, scene structure, voice, etc. Looking forward to it, and I'm definitely joining your Patreon!
This is a petition. More of this please.
Thanks so much for this video! I’d love to see more of these in depth edits as I’ve taken a lot from it. Thanks again! X
Yay my favourite writing teacher is back with another video! Can't wait to watch this later 👍👍 thank you so much for your channel
I forgot to update from my comment and say I loved this video so much, it is so helpful to see ways in which I can edit and improve my own writing. I liked reading the passages first and trying to think of ways in which I would improve it before then seeing your suggestions. Thank you to you and the writer for this video!
This was useful and cool, thank you!
Woods are not "dead quiet" at night, far from it, and birds start well before dawn. And it is rare for things to be totally black in the woods at night. Moon shadows are a thing. Thinking some research, like doing a small bit of camping, might help with the authenticity of the story.
This was helpful. Do more. Thank you
Omg YES! This is perfect timing and now my new favorite video of yours! This is awesome! 👏🏻 and good on this writer for putting their work out there ♥️
Love this!! I hope this continues to be a series 🤩
Great critiques.
The critique I have is that unless all the traveling and descriptions is leading up to something big in the woods, I would condense the scene to just a few paragraphs… 😃
It works better as middle grade. The MC's actions are too reserved for a teen. Teens often have an attitude if not a defiant/rebel nature in some way. Sneaking out is later teen stuff but the introspection aspects makes the MC seem much younger. I would rethink it as a middle grade work.
Hello Ellen! I really appreciated this video. I have some further questions for you, I apologize if you have made videos about this subject earlier but I haven’t found any. How should one think when writing a series? How does character arcs etc work when you write multiple books. The reader wants to see the character evolve as as person, should they slowly develop over the course? How is the story structure on the next books? If the protagonist is already caught up in the plot then I suppose they don’t have any status quo or debate? How should the plot evolve over time?
Also when writing side characters or secondary protagonist, does the same things apply to them as your protagonist? When reading books I often experience that the important side characters become more involved over time and they might even get their own point of views in the book.
Thank you for your videos, they have helped me far more than anything or anyone ever has.
This is a nice psychological analysis of what's going on. A lot of it is also about establishing clarity. I guess since this story is in 3rd-person omniscient (I think) then we're supposed to know why the character "is stepping out onto the path again" or whatever.
This makes me realize why editors are able to help writers so much. A second pair of eyes can help a writer notice things that they themselves wouldn't notice.
Hopefully, it wasn't too hard for you to go through this.
In regards to the overall diction, this sounds like an indecisive author -
As an exercise, I like to write the same scene with each of the emotions in focus in my own work: e.g., one where Victoria is scared, one where she's prideful, one where she's excited, and any other possibilities.
That kind of exercise, even just in play, helps to develop decisive language and leads to motive discovery.
It's always good to have a horse expert on call, just so you can ask about safety, horse behavior, etc. You probably have one in your family. They're common enough that one will be reading your book.
I wish editors in my country were that kind... You're a gem. If someone made such polite comments about my story I would have finished it long time ago... The editors here are ruthless. The kindest comment was "I don't care about that character, it's boring". All you get is "stop wasting my time on garbage". If I was more fluent in English, I'd write stories in it. You guys have it better.
I really enjoyed this type of video and would like to see more
It seems this chapter lacks more fantasy elements, I don't have a feeling I'm reading a fantasy novel. The whole chapter lacks conflict, and more Victoria character development. After a while was really difficult to follow what's happening. However, it is well written with a good flow and elegant pacing and different twist in genre. The English is my second language, and I am not qualified editor, so I am aware that I maybe haven't understood all aspects of work I would in a translation, my comment is just an impression, but I hope it will help. Good luck with further editing and publishing. The idea of live editing is great, the video is great and inspiring. Thank you
Your channel is so good Ellen 🙏 really your video on plotting for methodological pantser got me out of a rabbit hole.
Head shakes, nods, eye movements, and smiles or anything referencing what a person's face is doing are cliché and a weak way to convey emotions via actions. It's a form of stage direction. Emotion beats are better when original. The temptation is to insert an offhand action beat to show emotion or break up a narrative or dialogue run when we writers feel like it needs something. Readers want to know what is felt and not what the face is doing. A smile or nod represents a wide range of emotions IE it's not specific. Face movements don't move the story. If the MC nods while riding the horse would she notice herself nodding? It doesn't make logical sense. The protag is the narrator as her future self. Do we remember when we smile, nod or where we look?
could you give an example of showing emotion face movements pls? i agree that their a little cliche but wouldn’t know how to show emotion in any other way oh her than explicitly stating it.
@@---ul9eq It is not necessary to explicitly show what a face is doing in order to convey emotions. Internal narratives, scene's actions ( not body descriptions) and dialogue tell the reader what the protag's emotional responses are or what the emotional state of the character is. The scene its self shows the reader what emotions are in play. It's specific. If an MC smiles, for example, that can mean anything so a narrative explanation of why she smiles is needed anyway so use narrative rather than a thin action beat. Don't show and tell when telling is happing. Don't show what is assumed. A smile or a glance is good when it is necessary but the problem is such body beats are overused which removes the impact. Used judiciously face-beats work as intended, IE they capture a moment of change or realization. Showing habitual face-beats without direct cause reduces such character reactions into meaningless tags. To show an example I need more space. The concept of when, why and how to show emotions is worth every writer's time to study.
@@rachelthompson9324 oh, i understand what you’re saying. thank you.
@@---ul9eq It was my pleasure. Kee
p writing!
13:12 didn't seem like she was trying to describe fear. She mentions a rush of excitement. Sounded like she was trying to go for, jittery to break the rules, sneak off at dark, and go hunting for whatever she's hoping to impress the town with. She just had never been out that late and didn't realize how dark it would be.
Best explanations behind editating than any other TH-cam I have seen or heard. Thank you so much!
(1) "She had already filled her satchel with everything she'd need the night before." "the night before" could be misconstrued as modifying "everything she'd need" rather than "filled her satchel." (She filled the satchel the night before; but it sounds like maybe she needed everything the night before.) Is "The night before, she'd filled her satchel with everything she'd need" any better? Or "Last night, she'd filled her satchel ..." (That may be copy editing instead of line editing. I'm not an editor; I probably don't know the difference.) (2) I infer that "Tacking" a horse is the process of putting tack on it, but the online dictionary I use doesn't include that as a definition of tack (as a verb). To me, tacking is something you do to a sailboat. Since she's riding him, I think the word you want is "Saddling." If it was a carriage horse, I'm not sure what the verb is. Hitching him up, I think. If you're coining a new word for this story, then forget I mentioned it. (3) I assume that either the necklace was explained in Ch. 1 or there's a HUGE payoff for it later (it's magic; it's got her dead mother's soul in it; something), because you certainly did set it up enough. (4) For what it's worth, my bet is that the woods ARE inherently dangerous, or she wouldn't be worried about it so much, and that later we'll find out why. Thanks for contributing this scene. I'm not your target audience. I'm an old man. I don't know what your readers want or expect. I'd probably do this in a paragraph (especially if you think it's an obligatory scene). "Victoria lay in bed, her head aching. She'd sneaked out in the early morning -- so her father couldn't object -- to try to find the blue lights, but then found herself hoping he'd come looking for her, because she was so anxious in the gloomy woods before the sun was fully up. Just when she'd been about to give up, the lights had appeared, but in trying to get in front of them, she'd ridden Novi into the middle of them instead; the swarm had spooked him, he'd instinctively galloped for home, and she'd been thrown just as they cleared the woods, and just as her father came rushing out of the house in response to the note she'd left him. Now she lay with her head throbbing and ribs aching, wondering how much trouble she was in for ruining her birthday party." I'm not saying that's good prose; I'm saying that's how long I'd give it. If it's obligatory and you think it may be boring, then just tell us what happened (include whatever details you need later), but don't dwell on it. But that's just ME. I've never succeeded at anything. My advice is probably worthless. Ellen's is what's important.
I really enjoy this sort of video.
Commenting as I watch: my impression of the first scene is that she simply does not want to wake her father. Not much of an exciting stake, but I guess one could emphasize he works hard and does not get enough sleep, so it's important to her not to wake him.
13:20 the intention I'm getting for that is she's saying "it's convenient the sun is rising *because otherwise* the woods *would have been* dark. Which she's doing in that convoluted way just so she can drop the "not further than her father allows" line into the description. I love the way you gave it rythm though, there's so much more life to it without even adding more descriptions!
Just out of curiosity, do you do a separate pass for misspellings like shall=shawl and reigns=reins?
26:30 I don't know if it's because the video is slowing it down, but I'm starting to feel a little bored of the scene. It feels like 4 pages of sloowly inching forwards on a nondescript path *between* a house and some woods and never getting there, because she can always see the house.
37:00 actually, it does kinda pay off when the house finally disappears, that's disquieting right there. aand nevermind she's back on the path.
Well, this does successfuly leave the reader with a lot of questions! Honestly, probably leaving a few of these unanswered, like why are the woods dangerous, works as a hook. The bugs tho are totally fairies.
Great video! I love the side to side comparison of the original writing on the left and new edit on the right. I also found your explanations very clear and easy to follow. I would love to see more videos in this series!
I hope someone gets Victoria a butterfly net for her birthday! It would make catching a bug 100 times easier, than swinging a jar at them from horseback in the dark.
But as a reader, I am rooting for Victoria and I hope she gets help from someone on her quest.
This video is super awesome, thanks for doing this!
Such fabulous comments Ellen. Thank you so much. LOVE the format! And thanks Cabrielle for sharing your writing!
Thankyou to the auther for sharing this chapter.
Several points- Victoria seems max 12 which would be OK if she was meant to be. being younger, as you alluded to, the motive makes more sense. Perhaps she has few friends and wants to impress at the party in an attempt to gain more? Or she is considered silly or just "less" intelligent than her father so feels she needs to do something to be seen as smart. However these suggested motives ONLY work for a younger character. Someone else mentioned- why did she need the horse? Wasn't very far at any point.
With her father being a tinkerer of sorts and her goal being to catch a "bug" (obviously a fairy), why doesn't she have a net?
Seems would be easier to edit this book to be a... would you call it middle school book? unless it gets saucy later with the fairies. Once refined seems like it would be a fun sweet book.
This was a really great video. I liked the way you explained your reasoning behind the changes you suggested. I look forward to seeing more of these.
Thank you for sharing Cabrielle and Ellen. This was a super helpful exercise. One thing I noticed: I had trouble judging the passage of time and distance. It takes quite a while to get from pitch black to the first trace of sunrise to bright orange skies. On horseback, she likely would have traveled very far from the house by that point, and might not be able to see it (even without the trees). And then, if the sky is bright orange by the time she reaches the woods, her initial fear of navigating the woods in predawn darkness is no longer a factor.
Thank you! I really like this format. All your videos have great explanations, but watching this process with a real example is incredibly helpful!
I love seeing your tips applied! It gives me a lot of insight, I can’t express enough how much your videos helped me improve my writing. Thank you Ellen, you’re my go-to writing coach. I can always rely on your down to earth and straight forward advice!
Thank you so much, Ellen, for such an amazing edit! Love everything about it. I've recently discovered you and already learning tons from your vids. They're informative, aesthetically WOW, and you're lovely to look at, hee. I apply your tactics in my edits and the results are incredible. So, thank you, girl! ♥
I'm quite curious about the cam you used here. Would you mind sharing about it?
I loved this! Bravo to Cabrielle for being so brave. It was super informative. Thank you!
Thank you Cabrielle for volunteering and thank you Ellen for the detailed and helpful video 😎 You got my thumbs up for more of these !