Amiga to VGA | GBS-8220 Review (CGA/EGA/YUV to VGA)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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● Description
Can we really use an Amiga on a modern monitor for as little as £15 / $20? Scan doublers taking the 15khz signal of the Amiga up to the 31khz supported by modern monitors can easily cost £100 or more so a cheap solution would be more than welcome. Lets test it out.
● Related Episodes
Part 1 - Review - • Amiga to VGA | GBS-822...
Part 2 - Fixing Noise - • GBS-8220 - Fixing Nois...
● Useful Links
Ian Stedman findings: ianstedman.wor...
GadgetUK GBS-8220 review: • Commodore Amiga GBS-82...
Darren Hunter ZX Spectrum to GBS-8220: • ZX Spectrum to VGA Mon...
● Music
Amiga Game - Fury of the Furries
Amiga Game - Final Fight Title Theme
Amiga Game - KGB
Amiga Demo - The Black Lotus - Little Nell
Thank you for watching I hope this helps you with your purchasing decisions! Please see further links in the description of others findings and modifications, and I'll be sharing a mod episode very soon. Overall I'm impressed for the price, and we don't want to spend too much time or money on modding it as every £ closes the gap to the more expensive legitimate solutions out there. If you have an alternative method I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Neil - RMC
about YUV.... you are not quite right but close
did a quick google and found this link that explains it reasonble for laymen: www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/55165/yuv
My dad is more in to this and i remember that he explained it as a signal that transfers the colours except blue and that the screen do the looking at what is missing
ie the transmitting end sends say 20% red and 70% green... the screen then knows that blue was 10%
Where did you get the DB-23, i can't find it anywhere.
I currently use the RGB->SCART->HDMI solution and find it barely passable (input lag and problems with aspect ratio at interlaced modes, at least with my particular 16:9 LED monitor)
Watching this was indeed helpful, but I think I'm going to splurge for an OSSC which for the inflated cost, doesn't suffer from the noise and artifacting and like the GBBS board, can use it on a variety of machines.
A+ video as usual, thanks!
Craft4Cube
There are actually quite a few on eBay UK right now, but shhhhh, don't tell anyone. :p
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/23-WAY-D-DB23-D23-DB23F-DB23M-CONNECTOR-SOCKET-PLUG/362047168375?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=631292478000&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
You need the female connector if you want to plug into the RGB / Video port on the back of the Amiga.
Or the male connector if you want to hook something up to the floppy drive port.
I would recommend grabbing a few of each type, because they don't appear for sale very often.
My dad was cleaning up in my parents storage unit and found a bunch of old computers. He turned into a kid and wanted me to check if it is possible to run these old systems. Thanks for the video!
That's really nice to hear, I hope you get them working for him
Back in the old days, we used to use scan rate doubler circuits to bring the hsync up to 31khz. Worked a treat with CRT's & only took a few minutes to make.
Brilliant video RMC. Top quality production values as always and awesome info. It is really sad to see the CRT's go. I do everything possible to save mine. I just spent $250 getting my 1084 fixed, but I feel it was worth every penny. Nothing brings back the experience like a CRT, but it is amazing how you can get even better quality (with no flicker) out of these old machines with things like scan doublers. Personally, I skip the whole VGA route and just go HDMI because all of my modern monitors have Display Port or HDMI - no VGA. VGA is already feeling retro to me, but it is a good solution if you have the space for a VGA monitor to dedicate to your Amiga. BTW, I absolutely love that clear plastic monitor shelf you have there! AMIGA4EVER -- Bill
Thanks Bill! Yes calling my LCD a "modern monitor" is a bit of a stretch but it's all relative. There is also a HDMI version of this board but I haven't tested it and it's a bit more expensive. Every penny is a penny I could spend on a Vampire when it goes over a certain price. If your 1084 gets another 10 years out of that price then I'd say its money well spent :D
Damn, Bill,
If I was over in the US, I would have fixed your monitor for free. lol
I still want to get hold of a CM8833 MKII as well at some point.
It was my monitor for my Amiga and Archie in the early 90s, as well as doubling as my main TV until about 1996.
Did your 1084 need a new flyback or something? That's quite a lot to spend on a repair tbh, but I'm guessing they did a full recap as well?
Ash.
Oh sweet. I would like to see the HDMI version. That could be good for me. Sadly the OSCC is not compatible with my modern 4K monitors or capture card. The cheap Chinese wonder box works well, but I wouldn't mind something with better picture quality.
Ahhhh yeah Ash, next time I will just fly you over to NY! Yes, they re-capped the power supply and had to replace the yolk. Apparently it was difficult for them to get a new yolk. They were back-ordered in China or something. I agree it was expensive, the parts probably cost a fraction of that, but at least it goes to supporting a local TV repair shop. Amazing that they even still exist!
The Guru Meditation I had one and the soldering job was terrible. I had to press the chip down in order to get all colors working. Reflowing the board ended killing it. Cheap but cheap indeed.
There are a few known issues with the GBS board, as you've seen on Ian's blog.
The PCB layout is less than ideal, and that causes sparkly dots on some boards, especially with a 50 Hz video input.
My first board was quite bad, so I did the mod where you cut the trace for the SDRAM clock, the solder on a resistor and cap (RC filter), which fixed the dots problem completely.
I think it might also work to reduce the SDRAM speed slightly as well (as you mentioned), but that involves modifying some register valus via I2C, so you have to have something like an Arduino permanently hooked up.
There is another project on the shmups forum for connecting a Rasp Pi to do a similar thing, but also to enable a true 240p / 288p mode, as the GBS tends to try to deinterlace an already-progressive input signal, which can cause really bad artifacting with some systems.
Using a Rasp Pi for configuring a few GBS registers is huge overkill tbh. An Arduino or ESP8266 would do the job fine.
The GBS boards also have issues with sync, and requires an external LM1881 sync separator for some consoles.
Also, the "arcade" style connector is likely adding to the noise, as there is only one ground path, and the RGB wires are obviously unshielded.
So yeah, they can be quite good scaler boards for the money, but can take a lot of tweaking to get right. lol
There is a version with HDMI output btw, but I haven't tested one, and imagine it might have similar issues on the input side unless they have tweaked the design already.
Thanks for sharing your experiences Ash. The follow up episode will be interesting when parts arrive, it's going to be a fine balance between a cheap fix and "is this really worth the parts and time, just buy a more premium product". We shall see!
I went to the effort of even designing a new PCB for the scaler chip on the GBS (TrueView chip).
It would have had a SCART socket, and both VGA and HDMI output...
imgur.com/a/dL9bh
But, I then found an even better solution, but I've yet to finish the board design for it.
The new scaler board has HDMI, VGA, Composite, Component, and analog RF tuner, and works with every one of my retro consoles / computers that I've thrown at it.
The latency seems to be relatively low, and there are no obvious issues with noise or artifacts that I could see.
I need to finish the board which will convert the output to HDMI and RGB / VGA. and then it will definitely be a very good alternative to the GBS board, but still at quite a low price (sub £50, at least).
That sounds very interesting indeed Ash I'd be interested in testing it out in the cave if you'd ever like me to :D
You're right though - doing the various mods to the GBS boards can be a pain, and possibly not worth it in the long run, as it might be a case of diminishing returns.
I'm normally OK with soldering, but it was still a tad annoying having to do the RC mod. lol
imgur.com/a/3y8TH
Or, you can do the mod to add some copper tape to the back of the board, which is essentially adding some capacitance without having to cut the trace and do the RC mod.
(Mr GadgetUK164 did a great video on the copper tape mod.)
In fairness though, the GBS boards can still be pretty good for the money, and are even cheaper on places like AliExpress for people who don't mind waiting a while for delivery.
It's just that the GBS can be fussy with certain consoles (like the MD / Genny, and SNES), and does have issues syncing to some machines.
The image on your vid looks quite good tbh (aside from the obvious noise etc.). Normally when I've seen the GBS used with an Amiga, there is some terrible interlacing artifacts going on, even when the Amiga is outputting 240p / 288p, so maybe it's the VGA monitor that people are using?
Or, it's possible they have updated the firmware on the newer GBS-8220 etc., so it handles progressive inputs better?
AndehX
Hi,
I've actually abandoned the idea of doing the new PCB design for the scaler chip used on the GBS boards, as I found the alternative.
I still need to make a PCB for that though, which converts the output to HDMI + RGB.
I don't want to give to much away about the new scaler, as people will kick themselves when they find out what it's based on. :p
It should be possible to create custom firmware for it though, and I have some source code already, but I don't know for sure if it will be possible to bypass the scaler's framebuffer for a low-latency line-double mode etc.
It at least seems to handle all my retro consoles and computers just fine, even the Intellivision and other machines via RF (without drifting off frequency or anything).
Sincerely hope you are doing a CM8833 II repair episode on that flyback transformer. Mine (a MKI, though) died a week ago - with the exact same symptoms. Just after I restored my old Amiga 500 with help of your "trash to treasure" episodes and upgrading it with a gotek. I since then use a SCART to HDMI converter. Works like a charm.
The picture here is so good. I love how the background is really colorful, but the center has a more mellow, low-CRI light that gives the items a warm, retro look.
Your videos are always of the highest quality and engrossing. Cheers from Iceland!
Thank you Ace. Iceland is a place I'd love to visit some day it looks amazing
I know that sound that ur monitor was making, I used a hairdryer to preheat the monitor and after about 15 minutes then got it to start up.
... But I would rather have LCD anyday however anyways lol
Excellent vid as always, TY.
I have news for you, I'm not a man who needs a hairdryer :D Interesting though it would be a good test to easily prove the source of the fault. Maybe I'll get the heat gun out.
Oustanding, I wish you well in ur endeavor =P
I have the exact same Phillips crt that I use with my 600, sadly I two encountered the dying space invader sound only a few weekd ago! I look forward to your investigations into a fix. Love the channel as well.
Happy to have been some assistance 😎
Using that header with unshielded wire will cause artifacts, this screws up the lines 75ohm impedance allowing interference. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_line). Simpler just to cut up an old VGA cable and wire it to the D23 & make sure you connect each RGB's corresponding GND,. Also mounting the module in its own shielded box may help.
that's a good idea RE the VGA cable, I'm sure I can find an old one kicking around for ep 2, thanks for the suggestion
Excellent video, had one of these in the cupboard for years. Looking forward to the follow up video!
Had one (monitor) just like it for my A500... Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
I have fixed many of these monitors over the years. The line output transformer does fail. It fails with a short between winding. Its a long time now since I did any and can't remember the place that made new transformers or if they are still doing them. Those transformer I never had one fail after replacing it unlike the originals. I think there must have been inter-winding stress that caused the insulation to breakdown over time. Another problem with the 500 power supplies which I fixed for a few people was that the pcb would crack across a corner resulting in the regulator not working and giving out 45 volts on the 5 volt line. When this happened there were two loud bangs, an electrolytic capacitor in the floppy drive and one on the main board. Amazingly, after these were replaced and the power supply fixed the Amiga still worked
I would guess that some kind of shielding would completely eliminate the interference
I got one of these a few years back and mine is awful there is a non stop shaking in the screen that give me awful head aches ive tried different things to fix it including a ferrite bead on the cable but to no avail. Watching this makes me want to get another one and see if it dos the same,great video.
+chip1gray Thanks love your avatar. I understand the gbs8200 has more problems than the 8220
+RetroManCave didn't realise there was a new revision, I'll have to check it out. Keep up the great work
Surprised we have not seen a Kickstarter yet for a 17" CRT monitor with a tonne of connection options to allow all devices from the 70s to the 90s to work at their best.
There are so many ways to connect a AMIGA. Got my AMIGA 500 to a BenQ BL702A 17 inch VGA monitor. With a Indivision ECS V1 with the Super Denise 8373. You must get the right settings with the monitor and the ScreenMode and Overscan. For my AMIGA games it’s perfect. For the AMIGA 1200 the BenQ BL912 19 inch monitor with a RGB/VGA adapter is great. I want the 50Hz PAL Laced 15.6KHz because i want the same as my deceased Commodore 1084S-P1 RGB CRT monitor.
Pretty interesting solution! And a great video! Thank you :)
It's a Pixel THING cheers Pixel
I use the GBS to use old 80s word processors that require external displays. It’s a life saver at that price, mine’s in a 3D printed case and I use a small 5v adapter
I LIKE YOUR VID I ALSO TRIED IAN STEDMAN WIRING FOR THE GB2 220 TO AMIGA 500 AND IT WORKED PERFECTELY THAANKS FOR VID ....
Worth checking out the GBS-C mod to improve the GBS-C several fold.
RMC. I have the same scan doubler. I found that modifying a VGA cable or using a DB-15 to VGA adapter like Amiga Kit sells seems to help with the distortion. It seems you are lacking shielding.
My Philips CRT Monitor just died on me today, and came across your video while researching on the internet. I have the exact problem. No video output, just a loud spinning noise. I left my monitor on last night and this morning I heard the noise. I tried powering off and on again, still the same. So right now I am looking at making or buying a RGB to VGA adapter.
I'd love it if you also got a hold of an ST and used it in these scenarios as well - i know they weren't as popular but just as interesting.
Very informative as always, thanks!
Personally I have used an old VCR or a harddisk recording machine I had laying around. I connect the amiga on the video input (scart for example), and from the harddisk recorder over hdmi to my monitor.
I had the same problem on my 1084s, a high pitched noise and no picture on the screen. The flyback transformer had died :-/ I bought a replacement from donberg.ie and the monitor is working like a champ now :-)
Cool! What part is that?
That flyback transformer... is that what some techs call 'the frame?' I remember I had an old Philips TV and the picture collapsed into a horizontal bar across the screen.
Speaking to the telly-tech, and watching what he was doing, he tapped a box that looked like a small transformer on one of the PCBs and said 'the frame' needed replacing. Just a thought....
Yes ther information is given!
The GBS is an interesting little board, but I haven't used mine since I got a better scaler for Component vido. I had tons of video quality issues, including color banding, distortion, and poor color, and I know there's a fix for some of those but I'm not the greatest at soldering. Perhaps sometime I'll go back, fix it, and sell it for a couple more dollars or keep it as a backup.
Also 3:04 the YUV inputs are for Component video. YUV, even though it's different from YPbPr/Component, was sometimes used as a label for it which is technically incorrect.
I'm wondering weather a capacitor would clean the noise out on screen. Hey it looks really good for a £20 fix I think it's money well spent Neil 😋😋....Kim
I'm using the exact same VGA board with my NeoGeo MVS and I haven't encountered anything like that so I get the feeling this is probably something specific to the Amiga and other computers.
I'm still attempting to sort out hooking up a Commodore 128 via GBS to get 80 col on a VGA monitor, and same with an Apple IIgs Woz, and an Atari 520ST case that I put a 520STFM in with the extra RAM.
As this is now 6 years old, is there a refined /better option? I see lots of rgb to vga adaptors for the A500 now on ebay etc.... Do they do the job?
Hi Neil, sorry not related I really like the perspex stand you have in this video does it fit the amiga 1200 underneath all the ones I seem to find are only 470mm and the 1200 is a good 500mm, where did you source yours? Thanks and great video as always!
Hey there Danny, thank you. I found this stand here www.display-stands-uk.com/contents/en-uk/d332_Acrylic-plinths.html
I was trying to figure out how nicely does deinterlacing perform through watching your video. Seems there is not that much combing. However, the mouser pointer seems to drag some square shape around which erases the background it is passing onto. Unless it is just a you tube replay artifact...
CGA is the same standard for arcades. those old Chinese convert boards probably would work
I got one of these a couple years ago. Cheap, works good enough but my only gripes is I couldn't get the colors to look as good as my NEC CRT monitor and If I get the image lined up nice on my LCD a resolution change would send the position way out of wack. So I ended up with a low res image that was to small on the screen to accommodate that. But considering how cheap the thing is I can easily over look that
I had that same PHILIPS / MAGNAVOX monitor back in the day on my Apple IIgs -- it was awesome. How did the capacitors look on the boards inside it when you took it apart? Failing capacitors can also give you a high pitched whine like that in some cases.
The caps didn't look too bad, no signs of dulled legs or leaking. I have another system to refurb with some noisy caps on the logic board so I know where you're coming from. Hopefully I'll get that fixed up soon.
Where did you manage to source a 23-pin D-SUB connector? I'm desperately looking for some :)
Here you go goo.gl/Tdio5d
Yeeeeeah! I ordered 5 pieces right away :) Thanks!!
None left now and can't find any around at all :(
Hey bud can you offer me some advise? I bought this board for cruzin the world. It worked fine , however the colors keep washing out after running. If you hit auto it's fine but continues to wash until it's so white you cant see
just a comment from pedant corner here - that's a 17" Samsung display - not 15".. but otherwise another great video - nice one !!
Cliff Cheetham yes indeed it is thanks for watching
Just for the feeling i build TFTs in old broken CRT monitors. TFTs are not curved and not glossy like CRTs but it looks okay. i can even integrate a Raspberry pi iand power supply nto the case of the CRT and make it a complete RetroPi or Linux PC... There are TFT controller boards available wich replace the electronic of a TFT and give a HDMI Composite SVideo and a analog RF Input... Thats very useful too. So many things are possible if you just try to make them possible :D I really like tinkering with retro stuff. Great Video as always.
That sounds like great fun, if you happen to be in the UK you'd be welcome to share them in the cave for us all to see
Sadly im located in the middle of germany... Most of the monitors are gone to friends and other retro enthusiasts. I still have a lot of 4:3 TFT Monitors with vga and DVI inputs to build new projects. ;)
I predict a video about flyback transformers and diodes in CRTs in the future....
I've got a DVI port in my A1200 but I just purchased an A500 off ebay and thought how the hell am I going to run it because my 1084s has been sitting in the garage for years gathering dust so I don't think it would fire up anymore and I think I mite have an old analog TV that would work with the RF modulator but I would like to plug it into my current 27inch monitor so this option mite solve my problem
Hi there. I have a question. I use a LG flatron 19" Screen. I have done all the steps you did but I get a purple screen. It seems to work but the color is totaly wrong. Any ideas what it could be?
I have tryed to search for solution but none worked so far. Thanks :D
It's a shame it's not small enough to fit inside the A1200. You could connect to pins at back of port and just have an VGA connector on the back of the Amiga.
DB23 Female connectors are nigh on impossible to find. Stupidly
Amiga settled for 23 pins instead of a more common 25 pins on their video output.
Neil, that Samsung 710N is 15mhz compatible? Will it work on an Amiga 500 with a scart -> vga cable? Do you know?
Thanks!
Some of the 710N's are.... mine is not sadly
@@RMCRetro whats the prodution year of yours?
Any way to see from the outside if it will work at 15mhz? Serial number?
I've noticed that some 710N in the labrl in the back have a letter in the model after 710N. Could it do to make the diference? I've seen some with "710N [R]"
I have one of those and like you I wasn't quite satisfied with the picture quality. The sampling of pixels is not in sync with Amiga pixel clock, so there's a lot of blurring and interpolation going on, and it doesn't work as a pure scandoubler, it doesn't output the number of lines that Amiga does, and because it de-interlaces it introduces additional artifacts. There is a project out there for controlling the scaler chip using a Raspberry Pi, and possibly eventually a firmware mod, but I think better solutions for similar money will eventually arrive. Oh, and since VGA LCD monitors will not sync to 50Hz, the board will also be doing framerate conversion as well, which is jerky.
Since this I have discovered the OSSC. It's pricey, but you do seem to get what you pay for
Thank you
Parabéns pelos seus vídeos. Eles são ótimos e estão me incentivando a restaurar máquinas antigas para que eu possa fazer doações a pessoas simples e para vender algumas para quem gosta de nostalgia. Obrigado e um abraço!
Which Google Translates as:
Congratulations on your videos. They are great and are encouraging me to restore old machines so that I can make donations to simple people and to sell some to those who like nostalgia. Thanks and a hug!
Neil - your LCD monitor (Samsung Syncmaster 710n) natively supports 15khz RGB video using the VGA connector on most of the units produced (until Samsung switched the internals mid-production). You should wire up an Amiga-to-VGA-connector cable yourself, and see whether your monitor is one of the ones that works without even needing this GBS-8220 board. I have been finding and purchasing several really nice LCD monitors with the 15khz support recently specifically for use on retro computers - found a Dell 2001FP lcd screen a few weeks ago that really looks great with retro games. You can read more about about which monitors support 15khz natively at : 15khz dot wikidot dot com
If my trusty old workshop monitor supports 15khz then it must be fate :D I'll check that out. I'll work on the 2nd part regardless as it will help those who don't have such luxuries, and grab a passive Amiga 23pin to VGA adapter to see if it works. If so I'll include it in part 2 for the laughs. Thanks for the heads up.
That site I mentioned above just says that some 710N monitors have 740N internals and cannot sync at 15khz. The only way to know for sure is to try yourself, and document the results maybe to help the next guy. I have a feeling there are a lot of monitors from the late 1990s / early 2000s that support 15khz, but just need to be tested to know for sure. I also have a 710N here myself, but haven't had a chance to test whether mine works or not for 15khz. I would suggest you look locally for NEC lcd monitors from that era; many were intended for commercial or industrial use and support a variety of interesting video modes by default. Many people skip them at thrift stores or auctions because they are low resolution compared to today's hd or even widescreen panels, but if you found one, it is worth checking on your smartphone to verify any 15khz compatibility online before buying.
I would suggest keep looking to find one that displays the whole screen (or else get this one if it is cheap, and keep looking afterwards).
What is the MS rating of your screens? Unless you have 2ms or less you will have lag city regardless of the 15kHz. That's why the CRT were so good for gaming as the response is near instant as the human brain sees it.
Something like the Cave runner would be impossible to play as you would be dead before you see it.
@RetroManCave I can't seem to find a DB23 plug, can I use a DB25, or will it not fit?
It seems many people take a hacksaw to a DB25 to make them fit yes
I did find a DB23 on ebay. It seems that is the best place to look for them. Thanks for the great video.
Fratm excellent well done!
funny enough, I stumbled on this today...and have been looking for a solution to replace the display on an old word processor that a secretary of ours refuses to let go of
do you think that would be a viable solution to put a VGA flat panel on it?
+John Ignaczak what system is she using?
it is a Brother EM1050/DS
have you tried a vga cable with a ferrite filter ?
Yes indeed a ferrite filter is on order to clean up the power input as well as the video cable, as well as some copper shielding
How do you do the power supply?
It's a 5v DC supply. Spec says 2A but it doesn't draw more than about 0.6. Should be easy to find.
Saw this about replacement flybacks: stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10948, contains link to buying replacements.
David Barber thank you! I need to take a proper look to confirm the actual problem but that's handy
I would use some shielding on that cable.
Definitely something to explore in part 2. It was the included cable so I thought it fair to review using it. I hope some shielding can make the difference
I am supprised no one has started up a company to make crts' its a niech market but i am sure its a profitable one nostaligia is profitable
Contrary to popular opinion CRT didn't actually die out because LCD surpassed it (LCD wouldn't even match the image quality until years later and has only recently caught up in refresh rates) it was because they were banned in the EU (along with Plasma) for not being energy efficient enough, and so with the biggest tech market closed to them manufacturers decided to scrap CRT R&D/production.
I have that Philips monitor its great.
I think you have dead capacitors in the crt high voltage power supply
Hate to bring up this sad news. Johnny seems to be calling it quits and I have no idea what it takes to be a youtube content provider but in his latest episode Johnny is saying, "adios"
We can't lose him but I have no idea what to tell him. Is there any way to keep AmiTen alive even if it ain't youtube?
Johnny of Amiten says,
"So I decide to Stop doing finally and no more livestreams and no more content will be upload to Amiten TV.
Sad news for me and I think for my fellows too.
Only say thank you to all people here and bye i will be out for a long time and forget all about this project.
The adventure is over.
All the best
Johnny"
Just one tip :) you can use a arduino to controll the GBS board with GBS-control :) there is recently new development of this control software so it is working allot bether now. The shielding mod is not needed and you get rid of the noise and the picture is alot faster. I just testd this my selfe and I really happy how good the GBS board just god with this software. github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-control/wiki/Build-the-Hardware
Someone should start making boutique CRT monitors and TV's with modern technology.
Imagine it, if Philips re-released the CM8833
I had the Commodore 1084 which I also used to connect my N64 and PS1 at the time, I think if new monitors were made even if they were just 15" at $500 they would sell very well if quality was top notch and with modern technology to make them less bulky and heavy.
Coupled with a modern PSU please that comes with multiple voltage outputs and harnesses for various retro systems, please. One half-decent PSU to rule them all!
I think something like the older Sony PVM broadcast monitor range would be a good start. I used to have a 15" one of those and it was lovely for Megadrive, PS1 etc. Lots of tweaking options on the pro monitors too.
@@RMCRetro Sadly it would fail to meet EU regulations on energy efficiency, no CRT/Plasma can hence why manufacturers stopped designing/producing new ones :( (being unable to sell them in Europe meant that global sales didn't justify the costs).
Indivision ECS is awesome
+Ryan Yoder it is indeed. But not £15 :D
RetroManCave I considered this but went with the ECS anyway. I have one in my 3000 and one in my 600. The 3000 does vga but the pot is faulty and i prefer the ECS.
the hand holding the workbench disk has 4 fingers
Try various capacitors (electrolytic, olid state, gel etc) versus new schmitt triggers. You can use the FPGA way of adding a hdmi. th-cam.com/video/rgNfMfjiVnY/w-d-xo.html See files for fpga stuff. www.staringlizard.com/2015/02/07/amiv-2/
Personally though, I prefer the very "retentive" approach of having four such fpga boards, one each for R and G and B and Mono. Then you interpolate ("upscale") them all together at the last minute to get rid of the noise (then "downscale"). Also no dots too.
Put the sharpness at zero. This sharpness setting on TVs and monitors always adds artifacts because it's actually the monitor applying an analog attempt of increasing sharpness
I found 0 was quite blurry and settled at 5 as shown in the video. It was useful though to exacerbate the problems so you could see them
_ _ _ _ _ _ of the _ _ _ _ _.
Fury - Furries
F
Sorry mate but the picture is absolute garbage... and I'm devastated to report that the Indivision MK2 isn't any better either, and another solution similar to what you bought was crap too. 21st century and we're back to small crappy 13" monitors with CRT's from yesteryear and X-ray radiation through our tissue, because modern solutions are even worse. Utter crap I say. This is absolutely ridiculous.
I think it's fair to say you get what you pay for. If you're looking for a better solution I recommend the OSSC. Much more expensive but great results. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment
I love you Neil, in a purely platonic, awkwardly uncomfortable, man hug sort of way :-) Very much looking forward to part 2!
I love you too Pete, firm handshakes and back pats
RetroManCave Haha, mutual nod of appreciation.
Too hetero for your own good!
I would be suprised if it was a FBT failure just like that, I have repaired numerous of these monitors and not had to replace the FBT. Check the resistance across the large transistor connected to the FBT, 7512 also the diode 6517. Don't just replace them check the PSU voltage and capacitor 2517.
Thanks for the tips, my diagnosis was purely anecdotal based on some friends experiences and symptoms so I proper look into things is needed. I'll certainly test those out you may have saved me a lot of time!
I have one of these boards in an arcade machine that had the CRT replaced with an LCD monitor, the interference problem is terrible, especially on saturated colours. Much tweaking and settings experimentation didn't help much. Unfortunately higher quality scan converters are expensive! I was thinking of getting the Open Source Scan Converter. I didn't know about mods for the GBS board, I will look into that. Excellent video!
I'm using a BenQ BL702A 17" 5:4 aspect monitor with a simple VGAAmiga RGB Adapter. Works perfectly with 15 Khz too! Silky smooth sideways scrolling and great colors (settings need to be tweaked and possibly differs between Amiga models(?) )
Same here, basically moved my Amiga, FM Towns, X68000 and even Atari MegaST to an Benq912 / 702 for me personally it´s a much better option than the GBS-8220. Still got two 21" CRT´s around. But i have so much crap space is always an issue.
I'm having a problem that I can't keep it to lock in the vertical sync. It keeps scrolling. Other than that the picture is clean
Interesting solution. Has some obvious issues, but it's cheap, and it works, so that's not too bad.
I am amassing quite a lot of systems at this point that output 15 khz RGB, or at least one of the S-video predecessors.
I don't have all the cabling for them, but more importantly I don't have the display for it.
While I was in the UK I at least had a TV with RGB scart input, but I couldn't take it with me to Australia, and even though we used to have 'euro' connectors on plenty of televisions, (that's what SCART was called), nowadays I struggle to find anything that still has such a connector.
The issues are obvious, but that it's a cheap, workable solution...
Yeah...
I mean, so far I have this problem with:
-RGB output on SNES and Super Famicom.
-RGB output on Mega Drive
-The native s-video like output on my 800XL (even though the chroma output isn't wired up for some bizarre reason)
-The RGB output that my 800XL will have once I fit the VBXL/VBXE module.
And I would like to get an Amiga at some point, so that's also going to end up having this issue.
Would be nice to get some kind of solution here, even if it's ultimately a stopgap or backup solution...
Thanks for the link btw =D =D
Some BenQ LCD monitors work fine with Amiga's.
Very informative, entertaining and technical video... as always! Thumbs up 👍!!!
Great video as always. I have the same Phillips CM8833-II with exactly the same problem as you demonstrated, so looking forward to see if you post a video on that repair. In the meantime have bought a GBS-8220 to hook up to an old 17" IIYAMA CRT monitor. CRT's are always better, even though I have an NEC MultiSync LCD1970NXp which will sync down to 15.6 KHz, but looks too dull. On Amiga 1200 by the way, currently using SCART on old 14" TV's. Keep up the great work. :)
I have one of these in my SLG-in-a-box. I use it for games machine that use scart and component. Having it output with VGA to my 36 inch CRT.
I bet you could just add insulated wires to the cable instead to get rid of the noise, that fix always worked with composite video wires as the thinner ones gave a terrible image quality
Could this be used with a Commodore 128 also? I'd like to hook my C128 to a regular PC VGA CRT for 80 column mode.
Hello friend, I love your tuto.. I'm a french guy. I follow your video with great interest but I have only ONE question: What about the YELLOW cable ? It's plugged on GBS, but the other side ?? Thanks.
I was wondering if you'd have any idea why my CD32 with SX32 which has a VGA out on the back doesn't work with my new VGA monitor I've also tried my S-VIDEO to VGA lead again, I just get a black screen, is it because they are incompatible?
Great video. I bought one and couldn't figure out the pin-outs until I saw this video so thanks.
Awesome video! Glad to see the A500 getting the love it deserves and being kept running with up to date parts and peripherals. Please keep making these vids.
Great details but I am not clear on why you didn't need the vertical sync only the horizontal sync. Can you or someone explain that better?
My dads been running this board on his 1200 for years! He has one of the early models so 50hz looks terrible
Awesome overview! I have the very same model and been *thinking* to try this with my Amiga and Atari. But never really got around. Now, you've done what I *thought* of and I see a very promising result and solutions to the artifacts too. Thank you very much :)
You're welcome, let me know how you get on with it
Recently dug out my A1200. It started up once with a screen asking for the Workbench.... The screen went away and just became gray. Now I do not know if the monitor or the computer are at fault. To find out, I decided to try the fix you suggested. I got the board, had a 5 volt power supply. I could not find a DB23 plug, but my Amiga connected to the monitor via VGA cable through the VGA in and VGA out from the 8220 board and a Commodore 390682-01 RGB to VGA adapter to the computer. Well, at least there was a signal through the board and to the monitor, but just a green screen. Hmmm. Any advice? Is my Amiga kaput? Do I need to get that DB23 plug? I will appreciate your thoughts.
Hi, I am acquiring GBS 8220, same made connections, explained in the video, but it is the picture of the Friend dark, I was watching the light up but it is still the same, can be the monitor that I am using? It is a Samsung syncmaster 2233 to
whilst most monitor outputs to 1080p via VGA, I would think 720x576 I/P would likely be the best outcome if hdmi is not used by default for audio and video..
I'm not sure if cga and vga inter compatible with 1 another i know of converters from component to vga however end up pretty much useless as only 3 pins are usually active in this option..
i can't say if cga pin out would be compatible with a vga signal..
My experience is never try to push a resolution the system was never designed to push..
noting if you are planning to use amiga onboard or an external sound card note: most tv's that do support audio on a pc connection must use a 3.5mm stereo jack no tv within the last 10-15+ years has rca analog audio connection as preferred medium where you have a pc connection for vga..
I would avoid using rca>3.5mm conversion cables as this is the best way to introduce white noise into the connection as you are going from a earthed to and unearthed connection..
been mixing pc audio to hifi equipment for over 25 years and I can say this for sure
toslink or rca>rca is your best connection method pc and hifi equipment unless you have a 3.5>3.5mm audio connection to spare
Finding a pro audio card is few and far between that has access to rca output that is pci based and that can work within an amiga platform..
even on a pc platform itself can be quite hard in rca based sound cards
A cheaper alternative that may suit some people: I bought an Amiga RGB to SCART cable on ebay from retro computer shack. Works really well - far superior to the RF modulator. They also sell cables for the commodore 16, Plus/4 and C64 machines.
And if anyone still has the ZX Spectrum, there's a super simple mod you can do to make it output composite video instead of RF video. It's on retrogamescollector.com
i'm really happy to be seeing your vid today as i've been thinking of buying such a board to have a better looking solution for my atari st. i have a low-sync compatible monitor on hand and a cable from the uk that converts the atari st connector to a vga + audio out, and it works, but my monitor isn't perfect and the horizontal resolution is squished no matter the adjustments!!!
+DJ Marchand if you check the channel GadgetUK164 he tests this board out with his Atari so that might also help you make a decision
try as I might with the gbs 8200 and gbs 8220 I can not get this solution working. I just get a rolling picture no mater what I do with the clamp or any other settings. If anybody out there has the solution please weigh in.