Thank you! Very deep soundstage of the OB. I have the feeling there is something missing if i hear the klipsches. Lower midrange on the f18 is just amazing. HPF of lii f18 plus S8 would be interesting. And also LPF. On w18 this OB rocks it.
I measured the DA 1000 at just under 950 watts at 4 ohms. It drives my reference 10" sub with clear authority. Deep bottomless bass down to about 17hz. It gained a deserved place in my rack. Nice track choice, Yello always sounds great. Admittedly the open baffle sound less constrained.
Very nicely made open baffles. What baffles me though is running the two full ranges in parallel. I would love to see a frequency response to show the phase cancelation issues.
I was wondering the same thing. What's the designer trying compensate for by having two forward facing fullrange drivers on one baffle? I could see adding a super tweeter if I weren't getting the high frequency extension I wanted, but the comb filtering that will be taking place here with 2 FRs/ch pointed at me is going to be undeniable.
working behind the studio audio console for so many years on all kind of programs and live musical shows i just can tell that this f18 things sound exactly as it comes out from the mixers , sound is thick as reality... still looking por the best speaker .. this is really close..
First time hearing an open baffle in all of my 50 years in the audio hobby. Those two Klipsch speakers are firewood compared to that open baffle. Very impressive.
Both Klipsch pairs sounded very good actually, but slightly veiled in comparison to this pair of OB's. --BTW , I own Clayton Shaw's Caladan OB's, which work quite well in my 12' by 16' room, coming out from the short wall almost half-way into the room. It really pays to experiment with positioning, and get the speakers well out from the wall behind them.
Congratulations on really superior sound. The open baffles have superior top to bottom definition although on headphones from an iPhone not sure if they are as coherent as the Forte. Forte is mighty high impressive also Is the OB a home made assembly? The woofer has a realism not heard with the garden variety boom subs Owned the Janis 15 inch and it was the last sub I ever liked
@@drde4010I’ve been at this over 50 years and can tell you that people really don’t hear the same way While it’s obvious to us that the open baffle and forte were superior, others hear it differently. I really don’t know how you get bass without a sealed box, but it’s superb
Thanks for sharing your system. It's amazing! For the first song I personally liked the Heresy best, with the forte right behind. I felt like some of those electric sounds didn't perform well with the open baffles especially during the sounds that were like rips of cloth towards the end. However for the second song the open baffles were killing it. Would have loved to have heard the Heresy's for it.
The open baffle was distracting from the music and not natural. Most likely sounds a lot better in person. I was surprised the way the Hereseys held up.
Forte easily wins...more vintage relaxed sound...thats why like my vintage Tannoy Berkeley mk2 for that vintage sound...I also us a pair obsuper tweeters on top and a vintage rel storm 3 sub...sublime smooth sound feeding with Conrad Johnson tube gear...🎶
Room resonance around 300Hz is so strong, it makes difficult to build any opinion really unbiased, I guess micro was at the center of the room... But 1 Heresy, 2 OB, and last Forte
Another great example of widely divergent personal preferences. It’s obvious to me from the last month of listening to several OBs on YT channels that I prefer them to boxes by a wide margin. I have no idea how any other commenters could say the Klipsches are anywhere close-to me they sound muffled, and like stereo equipment, and the OBs sound like musicians are almost live
Prefer the two Klipsch in this room, more open and real sounding. Ob is also nice, natural sounding, and in a bigger room maybe they would breathe more and edge the two Klipsches. Surprised how good the small Heresy sound:)
The Lyi are weak in the midrange and loose in the mid-base. The Klipsch speakers surprised me. Very good Klipsch. My first speaker in 1978 was the Cornwals. Open baffles are where it's at, but not with the LYI Drivers.
Wow, i like the open baffles. So clear and open, but a little bit to sharp. (could be my sound system) But the bass and depth feels addicting and inviting when the Klipschs play. They are warm and soothing to the ears. They invite me to joyn them on a journey for hours and a wonderfull time. i would therefore prefer the Klipsch speakers. Im a big enjoyer of warm, pleasent sound while analytical sounds tend to give me headache when i listen for to long. But in the end it always comes down to ur own system. Maybe those speakers sound different in real life. Im listening on my desktop PC, connected to a 24bit DAC, audioquest Evergreen chinch to HVA-8030 and Castle Trent 2 speakers.
I would try use supertweeters on those heresy. They sounds veiled. My second pair of speakers were electrostats, never went back. But OB could be an option as could magnetostats. Dipole rules 😂
Pretty nice to hear the open baffle design against the others. I genuinely feel the other were "BOXY" muffled in comparison. The Forte was sounding better than the Heresy IV's (over my office speaker!) still the size you have to go up to for a decent open baffle is a factor I'm fearing will make them less obatinable for me :(
Well, laptop + external dac + active speakers. The OB's runs over the other 2 ! More natural sound, certainly more evenly balanced and not paying attention to any area, like the other 2. My take :-)
This only shows that with the right effort one can achieve great sound. My FAV Klipsch has always been the Corwalls with a nice EL 34 tube amp. . One day......Never a fan of the Heresy.
Hy Dr, a few questions. You are going from preamp 1 line to the dayton w18. And 1line to the f18s8 or are you going 1 line to dayton and from the dayton highpass to the f18s8? I see the dayton cross the w18 to 100hz? what is the hpf on f18s8? And how you are realize that. If you are not using rhe dayton hpf output? I want to build these OB. But one guy in the forum hast massiv problems to cross w18 and f18 even with aktive xo. Bow i am concerned
Hi I"m Daniels friend who built the open baffle speakers in the video. For clarification, the signal path is (Music Server - DAC - Preamp - Power Amp - Speakers) the top and middle drivers are full range and wired in parallel, why? Because I've tested both single drivers and dual drivers wired in parallel and found the increased harmonics of dual drivers was far better. Also the 18" driver is very organic and produces a cathedral like sound stage. The bottom drivers are subs which are a line out of the preamp into a subwoofer amp a Dayton Audio SA1000, and from there speaker cables to the subs, the crossover is adjustable, I dial it in depending on the type of music but 80-100hz. Open baffle speakers are very mid range focused so adding the subs transforms the speaker adding all the bottom end you could want. These are the fifth set of open baffle speakers I've built and are the best iteration by a very large margin surpassing everything else I've previoulsly built, and probably the last as I've taken the concept as far as I can. If you have more questions post them here and I"ll try to answer them.
@@nrab773 thank you very much for helping. are the f18+s8 running completely without filter (highpass)? 20 to 20khz. ? And also do you use the subsonic filter on the dayton to cancel 0 to 20hz?
Hi again, yes the Lii Audio Silver 8 (top) and Lii Audio F18 (middle) are full range speakers without any additional filters. The Dayton Audio SA1000 amp does have a subsonic filter.
It isn't even just the wood now. The industry saw the cost benefits of open baffle and are now competing to capitalize on it. As a result, some of the prices businesses are charging for open baffle speakers are pretty laughable.
@@drde4010thanks! I do appreciate the commentary you offer. I’m pretty convinced I want to liquidate my current gear and try a Dynaco and some Klipsch model. Based on your reviews I’m willing to try an early Forte but the only things I’ve heard lately are the Forte 4 and Heresy 4. Anyway - keep after it amigo!
I've heard that the LII AUDIO Speakers from China are the usual consumer quality. Manufactures of OB Speakers have mentioned that there LII AUDIO Speakers are completely custom designed to their prefrence, and cannot be sold to the publc. In other words, a much better sounding speaker. Another reason for the increase in price.
Why would you not? The engineers at Klipsch have even stated that it’s recommended not to have it more than about 12” away from the rear walls plus you get more impactful bass. The passive driver works in the opposite direction anyway.
The drivers (tweeters, midrange, and woofers) prices have gone up. That us why open baffle speakers have become more expensive. Wood prices are so bad but thst to has gone up. It's not "inflation" its good old fashioned price gouging bring called inflation.
Too much room involvement in the OBs bass (duh!), otherwise nice enough. Heresies had the best "air", Fortes (about 40 years old!) the deepest and tautest bass. Reinforces to me that vintage Fortes like mine could shine with some active DSP multiamping and some deft EQ tweaks. I'd put a more modern mid horn lens on them too if there was room for such.
The second set of speakers simply don't compare, really "stuffy" voice sound compared to the open baffle speakers. Chalk&Cheese! 😅 Except that the high-hat sound on the open baffle speakers is way too loud and the ride, too soft. Going by how they make the voice sound too "huski". And by my own exp with FR drivers. Speaker builders tend to insist on no filter on the driver. Purists! But with a filter, they can sound right instead of wrong. Not only do I use a filter, I also modify the FR drivers to suppress the high-hat sound and promote the ride (with a balanced approach). A simple filter for this: A 2 mf cap in parl (with a 2 ohm resistor and 0.05 inductor in series). The inductor is to partly suppress the high-hat frequency. It's a two way speaker sound, but with the COHESION of a single driver! Best of both worlds and between medrange and treble is heaven! 🎉 And also dipole for even more space.
I think experimenting is great! Keep it up. I apologize initial comment. I just know there is no way to avoid comb-filtering with your design. I am bringing speakers to market soon. You will see my solution.
All great. But if you would put a crossover between the W18 and F18 if would clean them if greatly. May around 180-300hz and at least cap on the Sliver 8 to high pass them. But they sound great as is. Amazing job.
Open baffles sounds much cleaner and musical
It seems like there is an echo with the ob, the sound is not natural
Thank you! Very deep soundstage of the OB. I have the feeling there is something missing if i hear the klipsches. Lower midrange on the f18 is just amazing. HPF of lii f18 plus S8 would be interesting. And also LPF. On w18 this OB rocks it.
I measured the DA 1000 at just under 950 watts at 4 ohms. It drives my reference 10" sub with clear authority. Deep bottomless bass down to about 17hz. It gained a deserved place in my rack. Nice track choice, Yello always sounds great. Admittedly the open baffle sound less constrained.
@@soniclab-cnc Bob added a few updates on the bass since so we’ll have a new video soon. Thanks for sharing.
The OB's sound very realistic and clean... Thanks for the video! ✌️
Very nicely made open baffles. What baffles me though is running the two full ranges in parallel. I would love to see a frequency response to show the phase cancelation issues.
I was wondering the same thing. What's the designer trying compensate for by having two forward facing fullrange drivers on one baffle? I could see adding a super tweeter if I weren't getting the high frequency extension I wanted, but the comb filtering that will be taking place here with 2 FRs/ch pointed at me is going to be undeniable.
I have my ProAc Response D100, and sorry to say, mine sound better.
After my first listenning to OB speakers I simply could not get back to those boxed ones
Forte sounds the best to my ears. Recently had to pass up a set due to distance and low audio budget ha. Really want to find a set to try.
working behind the studio audio console for so many years on all kind of programs and live musical shows i just can tell that this f18 things sound exactly as it comes out from the mixers , sound is thick as reality... still looking por the best speaker .. this is really close..
@@eosare thanks for the kind words. Bob has worked very hard to get this thing set up and I think he’s done a terrific job.
First time hearing an open baffle in all of my 50 years in the audio hobby. Those two Klipsch speakers are firewood compared to that open baffle. Very impressive.
I actually love the sound of the Forte. Richer sound with more bass, which I prefer.
Both Klipsch pairs sounded very good actually, but slightly veiled in comparison to this pair of OB's. --BTW , I own Clayton Shaw's Caladan OB's, which work quite well in my 12' by 16' room, coming out from the short wall almost half-way into the room. It really pays to experiment with positioning, and get the speakers well out from the wall behind them.
OB sounded clean and precise with that being said, I actually preferred the richness with the Forte's. A speaker with a little character is nice 👍
I like Forte's the best.
Congratulations on really superior sound. The open baffles have superior top to bottom definition although on headphones from an iPhone not sure if they are as coherent as the Forte. Forte is mighty high impressive also
Is the OB a home made assembly? The woofer has a realism not heard with the garden variety boom subs Owned the Janis 15 inch and it was the last sub I ever liked
Baffle were custom made. Interesting that people can buy forte 1’s for a thousand bucks yet will spend up to triple that for a heresy IV.
@@drde4010I’ve been at this over 50 years and can tell you that people really don’t hear the same way
While it’s obvious to us that the open baffle and forte were superior, others hear it differently. I really don’t know how you get bass without a sealed box, but it’s superb
Thanks for sharing your system. It's amazing! For the first song I personally liked the Heresy best, with the forte right behind. I felt like some of those electric sounds didn't perform well with the open baffles especially during the sounds that were like rips of cloth towards the end. However for the second song the open baffles were killing it. Would have loved to have heard the Heresy's for it.
Your lucky if you are getting 45% of the overall sound being reproduced by those OB, through TH-cams compression.
I preferred the Fortes.
May I ask why?
The effect you may be hearing is the way they each image, and with the open baffle the imaging is slightly splayed.
The open baffle was distracting from the music and not natural. Most likely sounds a lot better in person. I was surprised the way the Hereseys held up.
Fortes sounds more fullbodied than the OBs, but you have to hear this things in the real world, it's not easy to record an OB...
I love your videos dr D!
I love your videos as well. Keep up the great work!
Forte easily wins...more vintage relaxed sound...thats why like my vintage Tannoy Berkeley mk2 for that vintage sound...I also us a pair obsuper tweeters on top and a vintage rel storm 3 sub...sublime smooth sound feeding with Conrad Johnson tube gear...🎶
Super Test!😊Thank you
@ 5:53 you state the 300B amp puts out 200-300 Watts of power, is this correct?
😂
Room resonance around 300Hz is so strong, it makes difficult to build any opinion really unbiased, I guess micro was at the center of the room... But 1 Heresy, 2 OB, and last Forte
Agree.
Fortes sound the best to me.
Another great example of widely divergent personal preferences.
It’s obvious to me from the last month of listening to several OBs on YT channels that I prefer them to boxes by a wide margin.
I have no idea how any other commenters could say the Klipsches are anywhere close-to me they sound muffled, and like stereo equipment, and the OBs sound like musicians are almost live
ohhhh. it's just pure 💖💖💖💖💖.
sounds so lovely.
Prefer the two Klipsch in this room, more open and real sounding. Ob is also nice, natural sounding, and in a bigger room maybe they would breathe more and edge the two Klipsches. Surprised how good the small Heresy sound:)
WIll take about 20 minutes to convert to HD.
The Lyi are weak in the midrange and loose in the mid-base. The Klipsch speakers surprised me. Very good Klipsch. My first speaker in 1978 was the Cornwals. Open baffles are where it's at, but not with the LYI Drivers.
Wow, i like the open baffles. So clear and open, but a little bit to sharp. (could be my sound system)
But the bass and depth feels addicting and inviting when the Klipschs play.
They are warm and soothing to the ears. They invite me to joyn them on a journey for hours and a wonderfull time.
i would therefore prefer the Klipsch speakers. Im a big enjoyer of warm, pleasent sound while analytical sounds tend
to give me headache when i listen for to long.
But in the end it always comes down to ur own system. Maybe those speakers sound different in real life.
Im listening on my desktop PC, connected to a 24bit DAC, audioquest Evergreen chinch to HVA-8030 and Castle Trent 2 speakers.
I would try use supertweeters on those heresy. They sounds veiled.
My second pair of speakers were electrostats, never went back. But OB could be an option as could magnetostats. Dipole rules 😂
Pretty nice to hear the open baffle design against the others. I genuinely feel the other were "BOXY" muffled in comparison. The Forte was sounding better than the Heresy IV's (over my office speaker!) still the size you have to go up to for a decent open baffle is a factor I'm fearing will make them less obatinable for me :(
Does having the 8" help with the shoutyness that happens with the larger driver. That's the problem I'm having with the 15" version
Whats the first soundtrack? It sounds really good in the open ones.
@@drakeforte568 that’s Raising Venus by Malia.
Well, laptop + external dac + active speakers. The OB's runs over the other 2 ! More natural sound, certainly more evenly balanced and not paying attention to any area, like the other 2. My take :-)
This only shows that with the right effort one can achieve great sound. My FAV Klipsch has always been the Corwalls with a nice EL 34 tube amp. . One day......Never a fan of the Heresy.
Hy Dr, a few questions. You are going from preamp 1 line to the dayton w18. And 1line to the f18s8 or are you going 1 line to dayton and from the dayton highpass to the f18s8? I see the dayton cross the w18 to 100hz? what is the hpf on f18s8? And how you are realize that. If you are not using rhe dayton hpf output? I want to build these OB. But one guy in the forum hast massiv problems to cross w18 and f18 even with aktive xo. Bow i am concerned
Hi I"m Daniels friend who built the open baffle speakers in the video. For clarification, the signal path is (Music Server - DAC - Preamp - Power Amp - Speakers) the top and middle drivers are full range and wired in parallel, why? Because I've tested both single drivers and dual drivers wired in parallel and found the increased harmonics of dual drivers was far better. Also the 18" driver is very organic and produces a cathedral like sound stage. The bottom drivers are subs which are a line out of the preamp into a subwoofer amp a Dayton Audio SA1000, and from there speaker cables to the subs, the crossover is adjustable, I dial it in depending on the type of music but 80-100hz. Open baffle speakers are very mid range focused so adding the subs transforms the speaker adding all the bottom end you could want. These are the fifth set of open baffle speakers I've built and are the best iteration by a very large margin surpassing everything else I've previoulsly built, and probably the last as I've taken the concept as far as I can. If you have more questions post them here and I"ll try to answer them.
@@nrab773 thank you very much for helping. are the f18+s8 running completely without filter (highpass)? 20 to 20khz. ? And also do you use the subsonic filter on the dayton to cancel 0 to 20hz?
Hi again, yes the Lii Audio Silver 8 (top) and Lii Audio F18 (middle) are full range speakers without any additional filters. The Dayton Audio SA1000 amp does have a subsonic filter.
@@nrab773hy again. Is the subsonic filter on or off in this recording ?
Hi, just wondering if you have tried using f15 and w15 together with s8?
Thanks in advance.
After your comment on the cost of wood I’d be curious to know how the costs compare across the three sets. Bang for the buck, etc.
It isn't even just the wood now. The industry saw the cost benefits of open baffle and are now competing to capitalize on it. As a result, some of the prices businesses are charging for open baffle speakers are pretty laughable.
@@drde4010does your friend offer up the design online? I’ve been collecting wood for this project.
It's a lot of work so unfortunately no.@@orwhat24
@@drde4010thanks! I do appreciate the commentary you offer. I’m pretty convinced I want to liquidate my current gear and try a Dynaco and some Klipsch model. Based on your reviews I’m willing to try an early Forte but the only things I’ve heard lately are the Forte 4 and Heresy 4.
Anyway - keep after it amigo!
@@orwhat24 well stay tuned. I have an update on the Dynaco that’s very positive.
What track was that? Sounds great!
Raising Venus by Malia.
@@drde4010 Thanku!
No contest!!! For me, the Klipsch speakers buy a country mile.
I've heard that the LII AUDIO Speakers from China are the usual consumer quality. Manufactures of OB Speakers have mentioned that there LII AUDIO Speakers are completely custom designed to their prefrence, and cannot be sold to the publc. In other words, a much better sounding speaker. Another reason for the increase in price.
Fortes are nice, yet a little more congested
OB sounds amazing, the other 2 sound recessed and muddy, bass sounds disconnected
How do the open baffles sound compare to your Maggie’s?
At 7:45 we played one of the songs here with the Maggie's.
th-cam.com/video/nIPaE6p3bfc/w-d-xo.html
Why where the Klipsch pushed up in the corners?
Why would you not? The engineers at Klipsch have even stated that it’s recommended not to have it more than about 12” away from the rear walls plus you get more impactful bass. The passive driver works in the opposite direction anyway.
The drivers (tweeters, midrange, and woofers) prices have gone up. That us why open baffle speakers have become more expensive. Wood prices are so bad but thst to has gone up. It's not "inflation" its good old fashioned price gouging bring called inflation.
👍
No, it is inflation as that term is commonly used….an expansion of the money supply
Excellent video content BTW
Too much room involvement in the OBs bass (duh!), otherwise nice enough. Heresies had the best "air", Fortes (about 40 years old!) the deepest and tautest bass. Reinforces to me that vintage Fortes like mine could shine with some active DSP multiamping and some deft EQ tweaks. I'd put a more modern mid horn lens on them too if there was room for such.
The second set of speakers simply don't compare, really "stuffy" voice sound compared to the open baffle speakers. Chalk&Cheese! 😅 Except that the high-hat sound on the open baffle speakers is way too loud and the ride, too soft. Going by how they make the voice sound too "huski". And by my own exp with FR drivers. Speaker builders tend to insist on no filter on the driver. Purists! But with a filter, they can sound right instead of wrong. Not only do I use a filter, I also modify the FR drivers to suppress the high-hat sound and promote the ride (with a balanced approach). A simple filter for this: A 2 mf cap in parl (with a 2 ohm resistor and 0.05 inductor in series). The inductor is to partly suppress the high-hat frequency. It's a two way speaker sound, but with the COHESION of a single driver! Best of both worlds and between medrange and treble is heaven! 🎉 And also dipole for even more space.
I run my FR drivers completely OPEN on top of the boxed woofers. Forgot to mention that, and this explains the dipole thing. 😅
Running 2 full-range drivers in parallel? There has to be severe comb-filtering. I recommend that others don't try this at home.
At some point I think it would be interesting for us to run a separate crossover. I'll keep your comments in mind.
BTW, I've never found experimenting to be a thing to avoid.
I think experimenting is great! Keep it up. I apologize initial comment. I just know there is no way to avoid comb-filtering with your design. I am bringing speakers to market soon. You will see my solution.
Please share once you get that up and running. @@stevedeharde2712
OB gives much more relaxed tone.
Next upgrade - dome home/rooms
Forte for me
All great. But if you would put a crossover between the W18 and F18 if would clean them if greatly. May around 180-300hz and at least cap on the Sliver 8 to high pass them.
But they sound great as is. Amazing job.
Can we buy these open baffles?
They’re just a custom model. Not available
Ob at its best,
Heresy😮
Please let the music do the talking 😅
@@pheunthai very true 👍
Ob❤
Sorry , but the Forte sound the best.
More clear, more balanced
Is this actually music that human beings listen to? It sounds like stuff for circus clowns
Japanese Karate drum music@@pietjepuk5427
Sorry to disappoint but these are COPIES of the original Liii Audio's , it's a long complex story but these ARE NOT LII AUDIO.
What are you talking about? You mean bootlegs?
No bass in ob...very nasal
I don't like the sound..it might give headaches
Look up AMY2 "Fade Into You". That should be an EXPERIENCE! 🎉
And people are afraid of Chinese HiFi. lol
Forte has cleaner and richer bass. Open baffle sounds poor.
Indeed....I am disappointed in this open baffle