WHY your vinyl NEEDS the BEST Tonearm & Turntable: I visit Origin Live
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- In this is video I am continuing my new to vinyl record playing journey with the goal to learn as much as I can. I wanted to learn about tonearms so I visited Origin Live who are a World renowned UYK based HiFi manufacturer of all things record playing.
In the video I meet with Origin Live Managing Director Mark Baker, he has been designing turntables and more for over 30 years and I quiz him about many things. I also got a look at Origin Lives manufacturing and a little listen to some of their products, I hope to get much more time with them in the near future.
www.originlive.com/
For the playlist of my new to vinyl playback journey see here • A Vinyl Beginners Journey
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Thanks for watching - Terry Ellis Pursuit Perfect System
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:40 Origin Live
3:11 Why tonearm design matters
14:09 A better tonearm
18:49 Manufacturing
21:34 Upgrade advice
22:52 Multi layer platter
26:44 Final Thoughts
I hope you enjoyed the video, this one jumps straight in as I forgot to shoot a little me talking to the camera intro to the video that I normally like to do for videos like this so I can set the scene for what is coming.
If you missed it I am here to lean about Tonearms but also how Origin Live design theirs and their tone arms.
Please remember this videos is a 1 man production, that means I am responsible for the cameras, the sound, the lights, production editing and everything else. Huge thanks to Origin Live for hosting me and for all the super useful information.
Whilst production value is nice and helps, content is king and I enjoyed this video. Thanks for posting.
Excellent, excellent! Well done! I've learned a great deal.
Fascinating interview into a British company offering world class engineering, well done and thanks Terry.
Brilliant interview. I bought an Illustrious arm for my Roksan Xerxes 20+ and it sounds absolutely superb. The design and build quality of the arm is fantastic. Mark is a real genius with his designs, and the fact that it's all made in-house in the UK is another bonus. I can recommend their customer service too, if you call them there's a good chance Mark will answer your call and deal with your enquiry himself. Highly recommended company.
This guy knows what he’s talking about. Great interview.
Origin Live and their superb motor replacements / power supply saved my old Linn Axis when the original idiotic PS went mad. If I could afford it I would spend a boatload of money for their gear and I envy those who are so blessed.
This is how SME used to be when I was involved with them under the proprietor originator, all done in house by a small team, and not much corporate stuff. Origin have been very helpful to me. I loved dealing with them, and look forward to them again.
Excellent interview. Lots of relevant information that truly enhanced my own understanding. Being a professor, I often speak of such things to my engineering students. The analogies mentioned - a skier turning frequency vs. the stylus' - are so visual. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I wish there were more examples of Origin Live turntables on TH-cam. The one I heard was something else.
It would be nice if Origin Live (or yourself) were to make a video actually describing the differences between its range of tonearms so that HiFi enthusiasts could make a knowledgeable comparison when considering tonearm replacement. They have some info on their website, but this TH-cam format could prove more helpful. I have an early (first series) Rega RP10 turntable with the RB2000 tonearm and have been considering "upgrading" the tonearm, but I don't know whether I should be considering at least the Origin Live Conqueror model just to get an equivalent performance to what I already have. I read the consumer reviews at HiFi dealer websites and it seems all of the tonearms they sell are "the best I've ever owned", and then the HiFi industry magazines seem to claim Brand "A" is better that "Brand "B" for some unfathomable reason, but they don't compare the stock tonearm on well-received and popular turntables to models from aftermarket manufacturers. Frankly, it can be quite confusing to wade through the claims without some sort of scientific measurement evidence to back them up. Now, a lot of folks have claimed that Rega's RP10 is/was one of the best deals in turntable/tonearm value EVER. with the newest model being even better! So, am I silly in expecting that a more pricey tonearm with "improved engineering" will make a perceptible difference o my RP10? On another note, how does one actually know when a tonearm has reached the end of its life, assuming one doesn't hear the grinding of bearings or notice something very obviously wrong/broken? Is it actually worth the expense to have a good tonearm upgraded or rewired? Tonearms are mysterious and I'd like to see and hear more.
I have an Origin Live Silver tonearm mounted to my Townshend Rock 7 turntable.
The arm is beautifully manufactured & still looks brand new - despite being 6yrs+ old, testament to the high quality build / finish / materials employed.
This tonarm is an excellent source component & hugely contributes to the sound within my vinyl set-up.
I think that I spoke to Mark personally for advice (after sale) regarding correct set-up etc - I have to say that his depth of knowledge re vinyl playback was well & truly matched by the extent of his patience.
World class quality & reasonably priced hifi equipment produced by a UK company.
What's not to like, eh?🤓👍
That was amazing I was engaged throughout and well done 👏 on your questions they were expertly asked and answered. Definitely consider this is Amy end game turntable and of course have subscribed and liked 😊
Hi Mark - excellent video and I was pleased to see you and visit the factory in March just after the Bristol Show. Great to have Terry point some well deserved attention to Origin Live. There are many ideas about the best paths to superior analog playback - it is always the total turntable package which gives the final resulting sound quality. Bravo Terry and Mark!
I once was having a conversation with an instrument designer about brass instruments and why different materials or even just different lacquers can somehow make it sound different. He was explaining to me how theoretically what you make the instrument out of should make no difference if everything else is the same, but it does. And we don't quite understand why. They've performed multiple studies and measurements to look at how different materials affect sound, and they don't. But it's unmistakable when you've heard or play one that there is a difference, and it's repeatable. I'd imagine it's similar for turntables since they are such a physical medium as opposed to digital.
Wow, Mr Baker loves his stuff and he really goes in depth about hows and whys. I enjoyed this very educational interview, thank you Terry for the super high quality content you bring us.
"Mr. Baker"?
Remember, it's a family business, so I guess, there are more than one "Mr. Baker," when you have your sons working for/with you? 😂
One of your best Terry. It's great that you are getting to the small and medium sized UK companies that have provided such a lot of pleasure to us British audiophiles. It's fantastic to see behind the scenes and listen to the people that make this great gear.
I have been a hi-fi enthusiast for some 50+ years and counting. I've had a record player for the duration and gradually built a fine system with a Roksan Xerxes 20+ front end and SME V arm. Last year I sold the arm and high end Ortofon cartridge as I needed the cash, and replaced them with an Origin Live Onyx and Denon DL103. I'm not suggesting that the Onyx is superior to the SME but I've certainly not missed the latter and can't recommend the Origin Live budget arm highly enough (and also the DL 103).
I felt that your video came to an end quite abruptly so I'm hoping that you have more to come from Mark Baker and Origin Live, and that you continue to seek oout and show us more interesting stuff from great British audio manufacturers. How about Neat and Sugden?
Thanks for the great work Terry.
I agree that this video is very good indeed. The thing about the arm improving the whole sound is very true. When I bought a Skale counter weight for my Ekos there was a sonic improvement. accross the board.
Another brilliant video Terry, top of the class Terry.
Thank you for covering OriginLive. Great interview
Glad that you did this interview with Mark, an unsung hero among turntable manufacturers, IMHO. I'm fortunate to own a Sovereign TT and an Enterprise tonearm and its performance continues to surprise me (in a fantastic way). I was a former Linn Sondek LP12 devotee until I heard the performance from Origin Live turntables. I have also learned so much from Mark and Luke along the way as they are generous in sharing their accumulated knowledge. I have listened to hundreds of turntables over the years and still haven't found anything that transfers music from vinyl to my ears in a more realistic way.
@jeffking722
What is your favorite recording to demonstrate the quality of your setup over other rigs?
One of the best explanations I've heard re: tonearms. #welldone
My Origin Live story.... In the early 2000's when I 'became an audiophile', (lol)... I purchased the last Origin Live DIY turntable on the planet!! The standard motor was all sold out so I got the upgrade model for no extra!! Simple mdf table, acrylic platter... I put a tonearm I cant remember the name of. It was a competitor of the Grace 747 I think, very fiddly as it was the lighest tracker made at the time, could track very fine at 0.75 gram!! Had a tiny bucket with lead shot for side bias.... It was an awesome combo. Anyone can guess the tonearm manufacturer? Was it OL?? I totally forget.... Ahh, but then google strikes again, it was a 'Mayware', famous for their Formula 4, but mine had lead shot and a tiny bucket, so cute!. Maybe an earlier version than the 4.
That guy is interesting. A rare quality nowadays. I enjoyed the video and learned something. The physics of record playing is fascinating.
Very interesting interview. Reminds me of the clinics and seminars I did back in the day for a variety of turntable and cartridge companies. The oohs and ahs when you tell people how much stress a record is under at point of contact of the stylus. Tons of pressure. Temps that melt the vinyl.
When I was introducing a new mat (sintered crystal w/silicon) and centered weight with outer ring when they were first coming out, my demo was just the turntable/ arm/ cart. Play a record and listen for sound coming off the surface. Any sound you hear is energy lost, Energy that did not generate a voltage in the cart. It produced sound waves instead. Sounds waves travelling across the record and echoing on the stylus. Normal, even high-end turntable, you can often sing along without an amp. With these accessories it was dead silent.
Yes there was a dramatic improvement when actually listening to a whole system. But to be able to demonstrate causation, not just correlation, to that level.
As someone whose job is to support British manufacturing, I love to see companies like this. Great video and interesting chat. I’ll keep saving and one day will upgrade my Bush Classic Retro for one of these.
great video... very knowledgable engineer. Keep videos like this coming ! thanks
Origin Live remains one of the most underrated turntable manufacturers in the world. Such is the world of Hi-Fi politics.
The fastest little half hour I felt in a very looong time; must be because I found the subject interesting and exciting. At the same time I got to know a little about a brand, I previously never had heard about... :)
Hi Mark Baker, one day I will sell my Thoren -TD-160 tablesaws, ST-550S Jelco tonearms. Canadian dollar to British pound is much for me but in time I will have your table and arm
So good we still have these small family type businesses, a very interesting discussion!!
Thank you to bring OriginLive and Mr. Baker to public. Very educiatonal video about the vinyl record playback and importance of - all -
Thank you Terry and Mark for a wonderful review, I really enjoyed it. My Origin Live cartridge enabler has made a huge difference to my 1976 Technics SL-1200 turntable. Best £30 I’ve ever spent! I’m still looking to see if I can fit a new tonearm, but it’s soon to have a complete refurb, new earthing, wiring, power source etc. Thanks again Stephen
A record groove width is almost nothing comparing to the smallest bump a needle can detect. It's about 1/10 of a green light wave length. So, that's about an electron microscopic. I think it's obvious that everything(!) matters. An every single piece and component from a stand to a dust cover matters.
Good company. The gravity one and cartridge enabler are very worthy products that perform as advertised!
thanks for your sharing
Thank you for this video just as I am looking for a new turntable 🙂
It was interesting from the start but just after the three minute mark I noticed the amplifier. Anybody who teams their turntable with a Sugden must be worth listening to.
Origin Live is now 100% on my list.
Great company and products. Hope to see more from Origin
Live.
For the first time (To me), I get clear explanations on how it works. He put into simple images the complex engineering behind the manufacturing of his equipment. I like it!
I am v happy with my OL gear. Looking forward to getting the multilayer platter.
Origin Live is for me a new expirience. Wow!
I purchased an illustrious arm and can’t wait to mount it to my table. I previously bought the record mat to place on my delrin platter which made a nice improvement from the naked platter.
That was a great assessment on the price split. I agree with that. The only problem is for the average person, the turntable and the arm are one cost, so I would just assume that that’s 2/3 of the total and then it kind of works out to the same thing I always recommend to people. 👨🏻
Nice video and really sharp family business👍
The cost of LP,s puts me off never mind the cost of the turntable, arm and cartridge.
Yes that is a very real world complaint but its quite fun collecting them, you feel differently about owning music compared to streaming where its all meaningless.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I agree, PPS.. I think the problem for a lot of younger people today, and sometimes older is that music is a disposable medium. That wasn’t our intent 50 years ago.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem You can do that with £3 CDs off music magpie. Vinyl prices have gone up a lot the last few years.
@@itsonlyme9938 It's a bit of a 'ritual' to enjoy LPs. Tons of hassles to be honest but very enjoyable in its own way... Digital Music (CD's, SACD's, Streaming) are so much more practical and convenient....
It's always surprised me that many tt users think suspended decks and the miriad of isolation equip available, is about protecting the turntable from inbound vibrations from speakers and owners doing their best David Brent dance impressions around their turntable. The reality would seem to be that the equipment itself is providing most of the vibrations through its functioning (electrical and mechanical) and this needs to be mitigated as quickly as possible, or avoid being created altogether. Really interesting interview.
@tonywillans7556
A very simple test might be to attach a tiny high-sensitivity accelerometer to both the base of the TT and to the top of the balanced pivot point of the tonearm and measure the ratio of signal from the stylus/vinyl interface that transfers to the tonearm as well as the external floor vibration influence to the same and to the base.
There are even small, self-contained accelerometer units that will record the data onto internal flash memory that could be put onto the rotating vinyl platter itself, or wireless BT and WiFi accelerometers as well.
I have decided, I will get an Aurora deck! Great video. I have owned many turntables; and Aurora makes my mouth water! Need to get it! But i need an arm that has an head-shell because i like buying and trying many different carts. Any recommendations on tonearms with head-shell mount? Greets from Sweden
thank you for posting. Quite interesting conversation and info provided by your guest.
Interesting question who is the guest me or him :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem You Terry! Haha, great having you here too!
Absolutely fabulous, informative video.
Thanks very much David
Great video Terry, very educational!
Thanks Ben appreciate it
Excellent explanations. Thanks
Wow, could listen to this for hours
Excellent interview.......🔈🔉🔊
You could have made a series out of this meeting and spoke in depth with him about his other products especially the platter mat and his record stabiliser. Also the Rega arm upgrades that they do. I am sure that they would be popular.
You could have also asked his opinion on uni pivot tonearms when he was describing the stylus movement going up and down and side to side, I love my Roksan Nima. Overall a decent video but too short.
Maybe I will in the future but this video was meant to be aimed at beginners like me to start to build an understanding of why.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I don’t think you are a beginner, you seem to be very knowledgeable in your videos
With vinyl playback I am a beginner
Terry's done very well with the limitations of a 27 minute video, and a day to record. We would love to release more! Great question on Uni-Pivot arms. one of the advantages of Unipivot is the freedom of movement in the vertical plane which in theory is a fantastic notion, however, the problem of a free pivot is the azimuth: you want the arm to be able to pivot up and down, but not to pivot from side to side. Uni-pivot arms require mechanisms similar to bearing houses, or other solutions to keep the azimuth of the uni-pivot stable. These mechanisms usually result in added friction. Our dual pivot design avoids this by simply adding a second pivot point to stabilise azimuth without needing to introduce other multi-part assemblies around the pivot that add friction and with that the potential for more vibration/loss of fluidity. This isn't to slate all Uni-pivots, but just to address the underlying issue.
Interesting to hear him give a shout out to Les W of Avondale. Les is one of those industry figures for whom I have a lot of respect.
Am I one of the other figures Lindsay, I do hope so 😀
I've still got my OL turntable from the late 1990's and am looking to buy another one shortly. The old OL turntables look incredibly clunky compared to the current range.
Great video! Very interesting 👍
Is Origin Live available in the USA through dealers or is it a direct to consumer business model ?
Both! drop us an email and we'll let you know :)
Who, if anyone, is the US distributor of Origin Live products?
What I find fascinating is that Origin Live are using a Sugden 21 (or is it 21SE?) in their demo system. But what is the pre-amp? Also, are the speakers Neat or Proac? I would also like to know what the rack is.
To be honest that was in their demo room but I put that there to fill the gap, I wouldn’t read too much into from this. Concentrate on the TT stuff
Ahh thanks for clarifying that!
I'm always intrigued by what one manufacturer chooses as the other components in their system but I guess I should not read too much into that as you wrote.
A lot of interesting details on the history of OL and their solutions to the turntable design problems.
Ya this. Interesting, excellent share *thumbsup*
As a. eginner this doesnt help me.I bought a tt with a ronarm. Imwas told I can choose a difrent cartridge/needle. Can the tonarm also be just swapped?
It depends on the turntable and how its made but you probably can yes
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Thats very interesting and opens a whole new world to me. I‘ll be contacting mofi to ask for details.
What is the brand and model of the speakers?
Hi Marc, they're a pair of AVI DM10s, a company that has unfortunately closed its doors. Great little active monitors if you can find them too! - They do require a sub.
The claims that hardware choices improve sound are provable, because sound can be captured off any playback configuration in a manner that is consistent and repeatable. So the fact that claims that "sound is improved by X piece of hardware" are not backed up with shared testing and proof should be cause for great skepticism- no matter how beautiful the final product.
That conversation, which I followed quite well, will keep me deeply embedded is my pursuit of optimal streaming quality as the variables in improvement & refinement seem much more attainable and affordable than the extremely expensive, complicated mechanics of vinyl sonic extraction, amplification and playback. I will not even mention the variances in records, themselves! Thanks for this reminder!🤓
Michael Fremmer tells me that DAC designers in Silicon Valley are starting to design Turntables because digital still has many hidden and complex problems that are seldom realised till you get really deep into it.
Bob one of these days your going to cave in same as me, might as well get it over with as there is a lot to learn and enjoy spinning the black plastic
@@PursuitPerfectSystem 😊👍🏼😂😂😂 obviously you got my tongue-in-cheek bent.
@@MarkBaker-xi1qt That view is up for serious debate. 🤷🏻♂️
Can you please cite one DAC manufacturer that is/has recently designed a turntable to ad to their line of DACs?
@@bobb.9917 Better take it up with Fremer 😉
Умный человек, приятно послушать!
Mark is a gentleman and of course a wise one ☝️. Thank you 🙏🏼 Terry for yet another amazing educational video.💎🫵✨♾️🎶
What the cartridge has to do... Wow that was a hell of an elevator speech.. LOL
Origin Live turntables cannot be bought in the german market, right?
Details here for you www.originlive.com/ways-to-order/
Interesting discussion. My question would be though, would spending 2-3k on another firms top model (and not the base model) be better than this new turntable base model when there is a 40k top model in their stable? as this would irk me. No matter how good the perception of the 2k one is I would always be thinking of the compromises they have made to make sure the performance is not going to ruffle the feathers of the top one. A bit like buying a Porsche Caymen, which is very good but kept down wind to not spoil what you really need.....the 911. I need to listen to them to see if their is a distinct enough difference as this can be subjective.
Good question David, in short, no. we're not keeping anything downwind, Each model comes with additions to the design, not subtraction's. Each model is a giant killer at it's price point, because it's performance is so much better than comparatively priced products, and many products on the market that cost an awful lot more. At the end of the day budget limits the capability of a design. Another firm's 2-3k top model will have just as many limitations if not more. Not to mention the limits of the design philosophy. Try to look for what makes a turntables design unique in it's price range, and listen where you can. Just because a product is a flagship does not mean it's the superior product in the whole market. On the upside, we offer trade in's for those who buy our product and want to move up in our range!
@@OriginLiveInfo Thankyou for the reply which answers many of the thoughts. I will be coming down and listening as I would like the best sound - subjectively of course - I can get from my vinyl. I have only recently started again and bought a system and collected many of the LPs from my youth to relisten. I have not been disappointed with myPro-ject turntable (upgraded with Acrylic platter, aluminium sub platter and blue from red Ortofon stylus plus isolation board etc. The problem is I read and listen to all this good advice and want to see where I can improve... a constant problem.
@@davidoliver7977 Please get in touch with an email; you'd be more than welcome to come in and run a demo or comparison. Just as you say, cutting through the jargon and listening with your ears can be difficult.
It's OK if you have the money ! Most people only have a living wage but love music 😢
Why are we constantly upgrading turntables? when do we just say ok, let's play records and settle for what we have?
I agree, in this hobby I think you just set your budget and say that’s good enough. Sure, I’d love a $3,000 tone arm and $4,000 turntable etc but at this point in life, that’s not possible. There’s always a peace in just being content.
🤗👍😎💚💚💚
If the Swift outperforms £10k turntables then at what price point do the higher range Origin Live turntables outperform...? Performance at £10k is more often than not excellent, so where's the incentive to spend more on the Calypso?
I purchased the Illustrious Mk4 & discovered the Audiomods Series Six is much better.
Also I had to return the first Illustrious Mk4 for a replacement because the end of the wand where it joins the headshell was poorly finished & the arm rest had broke.
The only real way to know how things stack up is to do direct comparisons. We offer a one month money back guarantee and encourage people to use it. I'm very sorry about your illustrious.
@Kowinaida Obviously there are some £10k turntables out there that the Swift won't outperform, but it will easily outperform a Rega Naia, Linn Selekt, Pro-Ject Signature, or VPI Prime among many other similarly priced brands. Many of our customers have compared the Calypso To a Linn Klimax, Technics SL1000R, even Technics Decks, and favoured the Calypso. Not quite in that region, but we recently ran a demo for a customer between their Oracle Delphi and a Calypso, and the difference the Calypso made was astonishing. The incentive to spend more is simply in the fact that you get better sound for your money with OL turntables - If you had a budget of 10k I'd reccomend the Sovereign, and you'd be hard pressed o find a turntable anywhere that would outperform it - this is why many reviewers, editors and manufacturers use it as their reference.
@@OriginLiveInfo I'm sure the Swift is an extremely well built and engineered turntable and sounds fantastic, but how do you know it will easily outperform a Rega Naia when the Naia hasn't been released for sale yet?
@@andrewburns7873 Great question! First and foremost because at this performance level, the philosophy of Lightweight Rigidity is incoherent. Not only is vibration coming from the motor, but also from the ground and from the cartridge itself. Making something not only rigid but also lightweight can only exacerbate structural vibration. Because we acknowledge that some vibration always occurs in the motor, the ground and the cartridge: 1. Our motor is decoupled from the plinth. 2. Our deck features a form of suspension (cantilevered- a non-sprung sort of mechanical suspension.) and decoupling of the arm-board 3. Our bearing has 3x lower friction than anything else on the market I've seen and again, is decoupled from the plinth. And that really is just the start, but I don't want to make this comment too long 👍
How is it that your tonearms cost so much but cant even add VTA SRA Azimuth and Height adjustment to your souped up rega tonearms? Very important features for sound reproduction
This is a very informative and interesting video, but as we all know, every turntable manufacturer claims to have the best turntable and tonearm. When in reality 95% of turntable and tonearm combinations, regardless of cost or materials, are a compromise as they do not address how the lathe cuts the record using a parallel tracking cutting head. The very idea of using a radial tonearm where it can only intersect two null points on the record is in itself a compromise.
Turntable market kind of befuddles me. Some manufacturers will swear on mass, others the opposite, sometimes they use multi-belts, multi-motors, flywheels, some will say the motor must be independent to the chassis, others not and I could keep on going. It’s like if some car manufacturers would build cars with the transmission on the roof others in the trunk and so on, all swearing that their idea is the best. I own a well tempered Amadeus GTA with an ortofon cadenza black, the tone arm is a simple aluminum tube filled with sand held by a fishing line with a golf ball floating in silicon, the plater is not completely strait and the damn thing sounds absolutely fantastic. Not saying it’s the best there is, but each time I think of upgrading I’m afraid of getting something that does different pony tricks, but not necessarily better.
its the same for speakers amplifiers dacs and pretty much everything
Robert you're right it is indeed confusing! We try to make things as clear as possible, which hopefully comes through when reading our website. It is the same with any market where marketing exists. We try to stress that comparative listening tests are the only place you can really cut through the jargon, and listen with your ears rather than your eyes. We offer a 30 day moneyback guarantee on all of our products so that you can conduct a demonstration in your own home, against your own product, in your own system. I'd suggest trying a Conqueror or Enterprise tonearm if you are interested in upgrading, and if it's not to your tastes, just return, no questions asked! If you get in touch you'd also be welcome to drop in and conduct a comparitive listening test with your deck and an OL in our listening room.
Just find one you like and let them talk :-)
should be 1 hour video
Shame you didn't make it a bit longer, I think that might have been me suggesting the silver arm, about 4 years ago, I'm onto a different one now the blackbird horizontal unit pivot, what can you say about oh yeah baby! I don't agree with all his analysis about pricing it is more marketing what hes talking about, I should know. Here's a bit free marketing for you it cost you 20,000 but I'll give it to you free! why don't you call your slots Terry's chocolate moments lol when interviewing. A very good phonostage that won't break the bank and is better than a thousand pounds or even 7,000 stage for 660 pounds the MC pro or MM pro, even his budget phono stage for 150£ is marvelous spartan 5, Michael fidler classic audio, should ask for one Terry he might lend you!
So they do research by listening not measuring. Audiophile company true indeed.
Mark Baker owner of OL is a former ship builder so I am pretty sure its a fair bit of both measuring and listening
I should probably leave this, but can't. Not a physicist, not an engineer, so correct me if I'm wrong here.
There is such a thing as a mechanical diode. It does not, however, work as described in this interview. It does not transfer force from one object to another, but not back. That would be contrary to knowledge we've had since Newton, and which is simple enough to be taught in high school physics.
A mechanical diode transfers force between two objects in one direction, but not in the other. Not in the sense from object A to object B but not from B to A. Rather in the sense that force is applied in one direction from object A to object B, and in the excact opposite direction from object B to object A.
Think a ratchet, rock it back and forth, and your bolt will keep turning in the same direction, only with a pause each time the ratchet moves in the opposite direction.
Think of the freehub of your bicycle. Force from your pedalling is transferred to the rear wheel to set the bike rolling forwards. The force also works the other way around, that's why your legs get tired. When you backpedal on a freehub bike, no force (apart from a little friction) is transferred between the two.
If you insert a mechanical diode placed between two objects where one is vibrating will just generate repeated pulses of energy in the same direction to the other object, and set it moving in one direction.
This is much like what happens with the diodes in the rectifier of your power supplies, The AC from your wall is transformed down to a lower voltage, then fed through a diode, which again lets current/voltage through in one direction, but not the other, generating DC, which is fed to your capacitors.
That said, I've only ever heard good things about Origin Live products.
Hi Thomas, thank you for your comment, and perhaps the "Mechanical diode" notion that we follow needs some clarifying. It may be difficult for me to do that without revealing some of the secret sauce behind our designs. When we use the term Mechanical Diode, we are referring to vibrational energy travelling in one direction. And that is our aim. We are aiming to get the energy to travel away from the cartridge and platter. It's something that came from our early stand design: similar techniques are used by SolidSteel or Hi-Fi Racks and offer high-performance products: there is something here that's working. This doesn't mean all of our products perfectly model the theory, although they do model it a lot better than relative products on the market, and clearly, some of our products do this better than others, which is why they create a higher level of performance. Now what we are not saying is that we have achieved a perfectly functioning Mechanical diode. Otherwise, there would be no need for our huge range of tonearms and turntables, and there would be little difference between them. However we do follow this model of thinking as a driving force behind our design, and it still holds validity in the way one thinks about joints, materials, masses etc. All of these factors and so many more make an impact on vibrational energy, and depending on where you implement them, it will affect the vibration. And so our design follows that we are trying to implement these factors in positions where they will help energy to travel away from the Cart and platter - and that is possible. The examples you provide are valid. However, they are a little simplistic. There are a multitude of forces at work when vibration travels through a material; some materials will slow down a vibration, sometimes a combination of materials will disperse it, some joints will reflect less, or change its direction, and that's not to mention suspension. Again let me clarify we are not saying we have made a perfectly functioning mechanical diode, but decades of experimentation along this line of thinking have led us to believe that there is something in the pursuit of making one that is working.
And yet every pivoted tonearm, excluding Thales, introduces tracking error and thus distortion right at the start of the audio chain. Why do the manufacturers not develop really smart and cost effective solutions? And yes, I can hear the difference.
12 inch arms are a good comprise to reduce tracking distortion etc. We are looking into linier tracking as there are other advantages beside tracking distortion the issue is we have not yet found a way to may a linnier one sound better yet.
@@lukebaker8263 I get your drift and agree a 12" arm is clearer, sharper, more exact etc....but compromise is what I am trying to avoid. I have also found a cartridge may sound better in a 9" than in a 12" arm, and then sounds terrible on a Thales and vice versa - I use Thales as it is my only basis for zero track experience and there must be many tech reasons for the difference - just have to listen to your dad here discussing some of the tech issues of which I have almost zero knowledge.
But let's be clear, I salivate for one of your turntables and when you get the linear solution I am sure it will be a killer. But can I wait??? Hmm, probably not. So, a Thales on an Origin?? Untested, but..now, which of the kiddies piggy banks can I raid for 60 grand...have to be all of them and the wife's!
@@mythos5809 What Luke is getting at is that there is an inherent compromise in Linear trackers. You get the benefit of low distortion, but with the added components necessary to track in a linear fashion, you tend to add resonance which muddies the sound quality. Despite this we are exploring it, and looking for a solution! Our turntables are compatible with almost anything, and none of our turntables cost £60k. The Swift shown in this Vid is £2,290, the Sovereign Turntable starts at £6,800. Our cost no object turntable the Voyager starts at £24,0000
@@OriginLiveInfo It would be really great if you can find or develop a working cost effective solution. Should you get to marry, let's say, a Thales arm to your Voyager turntable I would be delighted to hear the result. I don't consider the Thales turntable a must (the battery feature puts me off) , but the arms are a huge step in the right direction. Oh so close, yet so far...
Let’s be honest here: this sort of thing can often go too far into the realm of ridiculousness and snake oil salesmanship. Spend decent money on quality, sure, but at a certain point, the alleged improvement is subjectively indistinguishable one from the next by most people because there are physical limits to what the human ear can actually hear. Just because something is *measurable* does not mean that measurable improvement will actually make any difference whatsoever to the listener’s enjoyment of their music. Hence, as interesting as this interview was, and I always like to support British companies whenever possible, this really seems to me to be little more than a promotional video.
I think given the video is 90% general topic talk and about 10% company products focused I think this is the least like a promotional video of this type you will find. I think there is a huge amount of important information here that’s relevant for every vinyl enthusiast hence the title of the video. I think with vinyl going the extra mile pays more dividends for sound quality than with most other things in a hifi system such is the nature of the technology in general
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Fair comment. Mine is just a matter of where to draw the limit? Like I said, sometimes it all gets taken a wee bit too far. When is another incremental improvement enough? At what point does it no longer matter? I do like hearing different views on the subject, though.
Oh and as someone with an engineering background I am not buying the "mechanical diode"' guff. That flies in the face of common sense and I think pushing that line of marketing nonsense undermines Origins good reputation for engineering excellence.
I appreciate your response and I trust you could sense my admiration for your products. I most certainly was not being negative about your products just the use use the term "mechanical diode" that was not helped by your poor explanation of its application in your tonearms. I also think you are being a tad disingenuous in saying not concerned about your reputation, that flies in the face of brand management best practise and also common sense. I will leave the last word to you, ATB Paul @@OriginLiveInfo
@@paulbristow320 I appreciate what you are saying. Although you are perhaps asking for more than a 30-minute video allows. I said in my comment that we're not concerned about our reputation regarding our belief in mechanical diodes. That's not disingenuous, that's transparency.
Turntables? Ah gramofon
Very impressive, but surely with rubbish in rubbish out theory,the person who spends £47k on a turntable is still playing the same records as a person using a £1k turntable so the record is ultimately the source?
You’re right, the record is before the turntable in the rubbish in rubbish out story. However, it’s not the source. That honour goes to the musicians, of course.
In the world of music reproduction, there is a point at which the source for each medium, LP, CD, stream etc diverges and that point of divergence is the mastering studio. This is one of the reasons why so many people are opting for vinyl.
Mastering for digital sources has become a race to make the recording sound as loud as possible by introducing massive compression and limiting to the sound. This can’t be done to vinyl records because the stylus wouldn’t track a brick wall mastered record and hence the greater dynamic range and space in the reproduction of vinyl records.
Having said all that, not all vinyl records are created equal. Many people invest heavily in audiophile pressings which sound spectacular. In the end though, whatever the recording, a high quality deck and arm will enable any given cartridge to dig more detail from the groove. Spending the money at this end of the chain is a great investment. You can always catch the rest of the system up later.
The recording is 50% in my mind.
Good question, but a simple answer is: Vinyl on a shelf doesn't play music; it's the interaction of the vinyl and cartridge mounted to tonearm & turntable that produces an analogue signal. There are differences in quality between Vinyl's yes, but there is a difference in quality of the tool you are using to extract the signal from the grooves. Think about the difference between a ruler and caliper, or even a micrometre. All measure size, but they don't all have the same result in terms of resolution or performance.
@@OriginLiveInfo thanks for your reply, I’m interested to know that if you buy one of your turntables and a really good Mc cartridge to suit, surely doesn’t that read the record well, but also pick up all the pops & crackles as well, I’m a person that buys british made (not british companies but made in TPRC), I suppose if you’re paying £47k for a turntable you’ll probably pay £3k for a record cleaner, so my question is if your not spending a lot of time and money cleaning your records, maybe your best of buying a less accurate turntable to not pick up all the faults that are all to present on lps , or maybe when the music starts it drowns out the pops etc and you get a fantastic listening experience. I’m a Rega customer but look upon people who pay £47k for a turntable like some people look at people who drive Ferrari’s, I could never afford one but I’d love a listen, maybe one day, but I love your company and until your interview with Terry I’d never heard of you , my system cost £2.5k tt, amp, speakers, but my Rega turntable cost £1.3k, and I think to get the same experience from 0’s and 1’s you’ll have to spend a lot more, I’d love to know what you would recommend as suitable amp & speakers (medium room) to pair with your entry level table, give me something to aim for, thanks for your reply and respect to you and your family a breath of fresh air, best of luck although watching the interview I don’t think you’ll need it. Kind regards
@@kkjrees You'd be surprised how well a good Mc Cart and phono stage play through the pops and crackles. I'd recommend getting anti-stat sleeves for your vinyl and using a spin-clean which is only around £70. A less accurate TT will actually be affected more by a records faults, rather than play through them. Feel free to email in for any advice on our products and pairing, and remember, while we do make £47k decks, our range starts at £1,590!
He doesn't answer any question ......
To be fair I was there to learn why turntables and tone arms in particular are important for sound quality and I think that was answered exceptionally well
Actually no. The more it cost to sound like digital, the less interested I am in it.
I don’t think that is ever the goal of an analogue designer but sounding like analogue is the goal of a lot of digital designers. Worth considering that one isn’t it.
Is UYK the new name of the UK after Brexit as in United Yuck Kingdom?
You misreading the times. It was like that before Brexit.
I love Origin products, they are well thought out but I don't think Mark Baker is a good front man. I'm sorry guys but he labours points and his explanations are geeky to the point of being boring . Obviously this is my view and others might disagree which is fine.
Sorry we'll hire a stand-up for the next one so it's more entertaining 👍
As a geek - I thought he was excellent 🙂
Wow. Thanks so much for this video.
I can wholeheartedly recommend Origin Live. I started with a Silver tonearm on my Rega and then moved on to a Calypso turntable. I had a few questions around side bias as i was struggling to understand certain things and Mark himself replied to me multiple times with help. The personal service you receive makes it feel very special.
It was amazing watching this whilest looking at my turntable and seeing where it was 'born'.
It feels even more special to me now.
Thanks Terry and Mark @originliveinfo
He had me at the word, “moguls”‼️🤙😎⛷️Serious business. Brilliant interview, mate. Incredibly interesting. What a great story teller!!