What an eccentric duo I absolutely love the way you teach the work, I have never met a dull being who has practiced the way. Wonderful stuff many thanks for sharing.
We are very glad that you enjoyed it. Hopefully , more to come. Influence C is calling the shots. In the meantime we revel in our eccentricity. "If you're going to enjoy felicity , enjoy it with a bang." The sales pitch for the Tikliamishian comfort couches 🛋 Beelzebub in America , chapter 42 of the tales. All the best , Noel and Lara
Thank you both so much for getting back to me: you always do! And even more thanks for the quote: most elucidating! As for the Tales, a 'Legonamism' for our times - and centuries after! Like other subscribers to your channel, I am so grateful that you are sharing your reflections with us. You are certainly 'repaying your debt for your arising' by this service to humanity. And I am in awe at Lara's stamina for having read the Tales thirty times and touched by your humility, Noel, at admitting that you're still trying to get through it once. These young 'uns, eh? If only they knew what us old 'uns have to endure what they accomplish so easily and without a second thought! God bless you both!
Lara's stamina and connection to the work seems to be of a supernatural kind ! Which just leads me to believe that the work is channelled thru people from source , or it isn't. This has been the case for me in my many years of involvement. Noel
very good, clear and concise teaching. I only understood because I have already read the Tales twice. There is so much prerequisite knowledge one needs before even beginning to understand the Tales.
Knowledge and being. I've (Noel) found over the years that an increase in one's level of being leads to a fuller absorption and understanding of the tales. Although with a powerful magnetic center this can occur at a very early age. A living of it , as opposed to a mere reading. As Rene Daumal famously said when Alexander de Salzmann introduced him to the work , "I don't wish to be taught the work , I wish to live it." The tzimmes of it needs to be ignited for full benefit. All the best , Noel and Lara
"Whilst this machine is to him , Hamlet." Closing lines from a letter to Ophelia. Act 2 , scene 2 , Hamlet. Hamlet and Shakespeare knew far more than they were letting on.
The seven accidental exterior factors in the brains of three brained beings , in the form of bobbin-kandelnosts , crystalized in them when they were born , and which effect the duration of time allocated to them , and their associations and experiencings are as follows , 1. Heredity in general. 2. Conditions and environment at the moment of conception. 3. The combined radiations of all the planets of their solar system during their formation in the womb of their productress. 4. The level of being manifestations of their producers during the period in which they themselves are preparing for responsible age. 5. The quality of being-existence of the beings in the immediate surroundings. 6. The quality of what are called teleokrimalnichnian thought waves formed in the atmosphere around them - also during the period of their preparation for responsible age , that is , the sincerely manifested good wishes and actions of BEINGS OF THE SAME BLOOD. 7. The quality of their own being-egoplastikoori , that is their being efforts for the Transubstantiation in themselves of all the data for obtaining objective reason
Another superior talk which wrests yet another fourth way concept from the thorny thicket of unnecessary mystification. Given the open discussion Theosophy and Neo-Theosophy popularly made of such things in their day, Gurdjieff could have used the term chakra/cakra if that's what he specifically meant. However, he does not. He uses the terms "centres" and "brains" and there are reasons for that. Those two terms are actually "very exact". The terms were used by many of his non-esoteric contemporaries. While one can always assume that Gurdjieff wants us to penetrate deeper than the ordinary view, his contemporaries and Mr. G are laying a foundation at the same two definitional points. When I found out that "centres" and "brains" were actually not born full-fledged from the head of the Fourth Way teaching, things got far more interesting as they often do when one makes new discoveries with this Work. Sometimes one most return to contemporaneous sources with Gurdjieff to understand how unique his ideas were and still are. Thank you Lara and Noel for your "plain speak" which instigates valuable pondering on this listener's part.
There's nothing quite like a valuable ponder. "It is not enough for a wise man to study nature and truth , he should dare state truth for the benefit of the few who are willing and able to think." Julien Offrey de la Mettrie , 1709-1751 , french philosopher . La Mettrie first coined the term , "man is a machine" in his work of 1747 , Man as machine. The concept of chakras arose in the early tradition of Hinduism within kundalini yoga. Kundalini is a misinterpretation of Kundabuffer which first arose in the south east basin of Asia in the nineth century. Kundalini yoga was first introduced into America in 1968 by Harbajan singh khalsa. Chakras etymology is from the greek word for cycle or wheel , kylos. The concept of centers and Bobbin-kandelnosts in them dates back to 4000BC and the teachings of the supreme Egyptian deity , THOTH (Pronounced Toe-th , and not to rhyme with "cloth".) There is a lot of THOTH in Gurdjieff's teaching. He even went so far as to name Beelzebub's spaceship as Karnak , after the ancient Egyptian temple in Luxor. THOTH is known as the god of writing , the nous and the logos. The god of indecipherable words and symbols. Mr. George Gurdjieff buried the bone very deep. All the best , Noel and Lara
@@hermesnoelthefourthway In the 1960s. through my mother and her then workplace I became aquainted with Harbajan singh khalsa and his community. I observed much while I had that unusual opportunity. Already into Gurdjieff's HERALD I knew Yogi Bhajan's work to be entirely of something else from what I read. Thank you very much for the La Mettrie quote!
You know , you should write a memoir of all your experiences. Judging from what you've told me , it would be great. And a lasting testimony to "something else." Something worthwhile. And thank you for the introduction to Michel Conge's inner octaves. What a truly great work that is. And , yes , the HERALD is most certainly something else. Lara and I are currently fine tooth combing it
@@hermesnoelthefourthway INNER OCTAVES is so highly regarded by some outside of the Work (particularly in its discussions on prayer) that I've read of nuns and priests in the Roman Catholic church recommending it as an important and valuable point of study. As an aside, what have you found to be the best English translation of the HERMETICA in your reading experience and opinion?
@@gregoryblaska1586 G.R.S. Mead , Thrice greatest hermes , studies in Hellenistic theosophy and Gnosis , 3 volumes , 1905. Unsurpassed. And it just happened to fall at my feet in a book store in sunny Brighton many years ago. Brighton rock , indeed !
Reading the Tales is like learning a new language and that is a great part of the fun. It's hilarious hearing you guys bantering with these impossible terms in such an easy and good-natured way. The humour of the great man himself really comes through. It reminds me of the child at the Prieure' having his bottom solemnly spanked by G, and then running off hollering "reminding factor! reminding factor!"
Gurdjieff, Views from the real world : "For an exact study, an exact language is needed. But our ordinary language in which we speak, set forth what we know and understand, and write books in ordinary life, does not do for even a small amount of exact speech. An inexact speech cannot serve an exact knowledge." G wrote the Tales to convey an exact knowledge in a concealed manner and for that purpose even created a new language. All the best, Lara & Noel
Superb quote. Thank you. "When shall we three meet again , In thunder , lightning , or in rain , When the hurly--burlys done , When the battle's lost and won ? Macbeth. Possible answers ; Perhaps , Maybe , Tomorrow , I'll see , Okay , then ." The only five terms considered necessary to do great dolour business and to make one think that one is a master of american english according to professor Chatterlitz of fifth avenue. Beelzebub in America. Chapter 42 of the tales. Incidentally , Somewhere or other , Gurdjieff states categorically , that he knew Shakespeare very well.
Thank you Noel for allowing me and others be privy to your 'receivings' from Above. I believe the traditional name for this supernatural help is 'grace.' On a more mundane note, I think the expression on the tip of your tongue was "death by a thousand cuts" as you and Lara were pondering the 'Bobbin-kandelnosts.' But I take your point about reducing it to thirds of course!
If the bobins work at different speed mechanically each separed, must we align the speed for harmonizing the 3 centers? You both look smart, have a nice All & Everything Salad 🎉
The bobbin-kandelnosts are simply located in our different centers and they work as a coiled spring which gradually unwinds as we experience different things. The centers can be brought to work at a speed much faster than they do now to align with our higher centers so that we may recieve more higher impressions than we do in our present state. By so doing we preserve our bobbin-kandelnosts, that is, we don't use them up as fast as we mechanically would which allows for us to experience more of the higher, unseen, non sense world of impressions. Thank you very much, all the best to you Lara
Thank you for clarifying that, in fact I knew it but ofcourse forgot it. We need constant re-minding. I'm flabbergasted you read Beelzebub 33 times, may I ask if you use the first print or the second? 😊
Dear Noel and Lara, Thanks a lot for this great piece. I am writing to you from Istanbul, Turkey. You are my 4th way guides since I first met you on TH-cam. Almost impossible to find a seriously practising group/person to work with in my location. I have some questions for which I haven’t yet found answers in 4th way literature. It will not be appropriate to discuss them here (youtube); they will be irrelevant to the themes you touch. I wonder if I could talk to you for half an hour or so via zoom at your convenience; e-mail will also be OK. It would be the greatest help. Best regards.
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NBw1jF342vw/mqdefault.jpg)
What an eccentric duo I absolutely love the way you teach the work, I have never met a dull being who has practiced the way. Wonderful stuff many thanks for sharing.
We are very glad that you enjoyed it.
Hopefully , more to come. Influence C is calling the shots. In the meantime we revel in our eccentricity.
"If you're going to enjoy felicity , enjoy it with a bang."
The sales pitch for the Tikliamishian comfort couches 🛋
Beelzebub in America , chapter 42 of the tales.
All the best ,
Noel and Lara
Thank you both so much for getting back to me: you always do! And even more thanks for the quote: most elucidating! As for the Tales, a 'Legonamism' for our times - and centuries after!
Like other subscribers to your channel, I am so grateful that you are sharing your reflections with us. You are certainly 'repaying your debt for your arising' by this service to humanity. And I am in awe at Lara's stamina for having read the Tales thirty times and touched by your humility, Noel, at admitting that you're still trying to get through it once. These young 'uns, eh? If only they knew what us old 'uns have to endure what they accomplish so easily and without a second thought! God bless you both!
Lara's stamina and connection to the work seems to be of a supernatural kind ! Which just leads me to believe that the work is channelled thru people from source , or it isn't. This has been the case for me in my many years of involvement.
Noel
Thank you both - enjoyed having my oysterleg pulled
We wish a speedy recovery to your oysterleg according to the principal OF ITOKLANOZ !
All the best ,
Noel and Lara
Yes yes yes, gonna put my ears on 🎉
very good, clear and concise teaching. I only understood because I have already read the Tales twice. There is so much prerequisite knowledge one needs before even beginning to understand the Tales.
Knowledge and being. I've (Noel) found over the years that an increase in one's level of being leads to a fuller absorption and understanding of the tales. Although with a powerful magnetic center this can occur at a very early age. A living of it , as opposed to a mere reading.
As Rene Daumal famously said when Alexander de Salzmann introduced him to the work , "I don't wish to be taught the work , I wish to live it."
The tzimmes of it needs to be ignited for full benefit.
All the best ,
Noel and Lara
Definitely organic and not mechanical. ⚙️..keep up the good work 😊
Thanks for your support, much appreciated.
"Whilst this machine is to him , Hamlet." Closing lines from a letter to Ophelia. Act 2 , scene 2 , Hamlet.
Hamlet and Shakespeare knew far more than they were letting on.
The seven accidental exterior factors in the brains of three brained beings , in the form of bobbin-kandelnosts , crystalized in them when they were born , and which effect the duration of time allocated to them , and their associations and experiencings are as follows ,
1. Heredity in general.
2. Conditions and environment at the moment of conception.
3. The combined radiations of all the planets of their solar system during their formation in the womb of their productress.
4. The level of being manifestations of their producers during the period in which they themselves are preparing for responsible age.
5. The quality of being-existence of the beings in the immediate surroundings.
6. The quality of what are called teleokrimalnichnian thought waves formed in the atmosphere around them - also during the period of their preparation for responsible age , that is , the sincerely manifested good wishes and actions of BEINGS OF THE SAME BLOOD.
7. The quality of their own being-egoplastikoori , that is their being efforts for the Transubstantiation in themselves of all the data for obtaining objective reason
Another superior talk which wrests yet another fourth way concept from the thorny thicket of unnecessary mystification.
Given the open discussion Theosophy and Neo-Theosophy popularly made of such things in their day, Gurdjieff could have used the term chakra/cakra if that's what he specifically meant.
However, he does not. He uses the terms "centres" and "brains" and there are reasons for that.
Those two terms are actually "very exact". The terms were used by many of his non-esoteric contemporaries. While one can always assume that Gurdjieff wants us to penetrate deeper than the ordinary view, his contemporaries and Mr. G are laying a foundation at the same two definitional points. When I found out that "centres" and "brains" were actually not born full-fledged from the head of the Fourth Way teaching, things got far more interesting as they often do when one makes new discoveries with this Work.
Sometimes one most return to contemporaneous sources with Gurdjieff to understand how unique his ideas were and still are.
Thank you Lara and Noel for your "plain speak" which instigates valuable pondering on this listener's part.
There's nothing quite like a valuable ponder.
"It is not enough for a wise man to study nature and truth , he should dare state truth for the benefit of the few who are willing and able to think."
Julien Offrey de la Mettrie , 1709-1751 , french philosopher .
La Mettrie first coined the term , "man is a machine" in his work of 1747 , Man as machine.
The concept of chakras arose in the early tradition of Hinduism within kundalini yoga.
Kundalini is a misinterpretation of Kundabuffer which first arose in the south east basin of Asia in the nineth century. Kundalini yoga was first introduced into America in 1968 by Harbajan singh khalsa.
Chakras etymology is from the greek word for cycle or wheel , kylos.
The concept of centers and Bobbin-kandelnosts in them dates back to 4000BC and the teachings of the supreme Egyptian deity , THOTH (Pronounced Toe-th , and not to rhyme with "cloth".)
There is a lot of THOTH in Gurdjieff's teaching. He even went so far as to name Beelzebub's spaceship as Karnak , after the ancient Egyptian temple in Luxor.
THOTH is known as the god of writing , the nous and the logos.
The god of indecipherable words and symbols. Mr. George Gurdjieff buried the bone very deep.
All the best ,
Noel and Lara
@@hermesnoelthefourthway In the 1960s. through my mother and her then workplace I became aquainted with Harbajan singh khalsa and his community.
I observed much while I had that unusual opportunity. Already into Gurdjieff's HERALD I knew Yogi Bhajan's work to be entirely of something else from what I read.
Thank you very much for the La Mettrie quote!
You know , you should write a memoir of all your experiences. Judging from what you've told me , it would be great. And a lasting testimony to "something else." Something worthwhile.
And thank you for the introduction to Michel Conge's inner octaves. What a truly great work that is.
And , yes , the HERALD is most certainly something else. Lara and I are currently fine tooth combing it
@@hermesnoelthefourthway INNER OCTAVES is so highly regarded by some outside of the Work (particularly in its discussions on prayer) that I've read of nuns and priests in the Roman Catholic church recommending it as an important and valuable point of study.
As an aside, what have you found to be the best English translation of the HERMETICA in your reading experience and opinion?
@@gregoryblaska1586
G.R.S. Mead ,
Thrice greatest hermes , studies in Hellenistic theosophy and Gnosis , 3 volumes , 1905.
Unsurpassed.
And it just happened to fall at my feet in a book store in sunny Brighton many years ago.
Brighton rock , indeed !
Reading the Tales is like learning a new language and that is a great part of the fun. It's hilarious hearing you guys bantering with these impossible terms in such an easy and good-natured way. The humour of the great man himself really comes through. It reminds me of the child at the Prieure' having his bottom solemnly spanked by G, and then running off hollering "reminding factor! reminding factor!"
Gurdjieff, Views from the real world : "For an exact study, an exact language is needed. But our ordinary language in which we speak, set forth what we know and understand, and write books in ordinary life, does not do for even a small amount of exact speech. An inexact speech cannot serve an exact knowledge."
G wrote the Tales to convey an exact knowledge in a concealed manner and for that purpose even created a new language.
All the best,
Lara & Noel
"And we know that 3 times 3 is not 9" .(end of loves labour's lost. )..you are right ...twas a school indeed..peace..
Superb quote. Thank you.
"When shall we three meet again ,
In thunder , lightning , or in rain ,
When the hurly--burlys done ,
When the battle's lost and won ?
Macbeth.
Possible answers ;
Perhaps ,
Maybe ,
Tomorrow ,
I'll see ,
Okay , then ."
The only five terms considered necessary to do great dolour business and to make one think that one is a master of american english according to professor Chatterlitz of fifth avenue.
Beelzebub in America. Chapter 42 of the tales.
Incidentally , Somewhere or other , Gurdjieff states categorically , that he knew Shakespeare very well.
Thank you Noel for allowing me and others be privy to your 'receivings' from Above. I believe the traditional name for this supernatural help is 'grace.'
On a more mundane note, I think the expression on the tip of your tongue was "death by a thousand cuts" as you and Lara were pondering the 'Bobbin-kandelnosts.' But I take your point about reducing it to thirds of course!
Amazing grace , indeed !
If the bobins work at different speed mechanically each separed, must we align the speed for harmonizing the 3 centers?
You both look smart, have a nice All & Everything Salad 🎉
The bobbin-kandelnosts are simply located in our different centers and they work as a coiled spring which gradually unwinds as we experience different things. The centers can be brought to work at a speed much faster than they do now to align with our higher centers so that we may recieve more higher impressions than we do in our present state. By so doing we preserve our bobbin-kandelnosts, that is, we don't use them up as fast as we mechanically would which allows for us to experience more of the higher, unseen, non sense world of impressions.
Thank you very much, all the best to you
Lara
Thank you for clarifying that, in fact I knew it but ofcourse forgot it. We need constant re-minding.
I'm flabbergasted you read Beelzebub 33 times, may I ask if you use the first print or the second?
😊
Dear Noel and Lara,
Thanks a lot for this great piece. I am writing to you from Istanbul, Turkey. You are my 4th way guides since I first met you on TH-cam. Almost impossible to find a seriously practising group/person to work with in my location. I have some questions for which I haven’t yet found answers in 4th way literature. It will not be appropriate to discuss them here (youtube); they will be irrelevant to the themes you touch. I wonder if I could talk to you for half an hour or so via zoom at your convenience; e-mail will also be OK. It would be the greatest help. Best regards.
Hello.
Yes. Of course.
The email is in the description box.
Noel and Lara
@@hermesnoelthefourthway Thanks so much.
@@cemgurakan2251 if you first contact us via email , we can then arrange a zoom meeting.
@@hermesnoelthefourthway Highly appreciate your interest. I will do as you suggest. Best regards.