Why This Poker Line Makes No Sense
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- Sometimes a line in poker makes no sense forcing you to press the call down button. In today's all Bart goes over one such example.
0:00 - Intro
1:41 - Preflop
3:17 - Flop
3:33 - betting more volume of hands that dont favor us as pfr
4:36 - Turn
8:40 - River
13:51 - Hero decision
13:52 - Reveal
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Nice of Bart to call into this guys show.
🤣💀
Was thinking the same thing. Why call Bart and then talk over him?
@@gordonbelle1375 Its tricky to be polite on zoom calls, the slight delay really changes the flow of the conversation
Lmao
@@gordonbelle1375for clout
At the 1/3 and 1/2 level where I play I’ve found this to be a tremendously bluffy line. When hero is the PFR, hero c-bets OOP, hero checks turn then villain lead. hero check calls and then hero checks river and villain leads again….. the past year I’ve been good probably like 40 out of 55 times hero calling against this line
Breaking News: Low Stakes Players Clicking Buttons!
Don’t they know they’re supposed to play GTO??
Clicking buttons is more fun
I moved down to 1/3 from 2/5 when I moved to Texas (anyone who plays in Texas will understand why) and immediately lost 1000 BB within 300 hands lol
Don’t get me wrong a 1k BB swing isn’t anything abnormal by any means, but my god is “low stakes button clicking” the truest statement of the century.
Forget ranging people, I’m talking villains limp-flatting AK being normal. Conversely, cold 4-betting 85o in the blinds for god knows what reason. Not even in Chinese 50NL 6-Max cash have I seen such insanity. You ain’t lying lol.
Haha.
In the future, can callers please let Bart give his thoughts?
I think it's worth noting something that people seem to forget - "solid players" can A) make mistakes and B) not be solid at every aspect of their game. If the caller thinks he's solid mostly because he plays preflop more appropriately than most 1/3 players, that doesn't mean he understands postflop yet or doesn't float way too wide even with people behind him or finds proper bluffs or calls down properly or whatever else. We all do it, but I think the vast majority of "solid" low stakes players are going to have one or more major issues with their game, so we shouldn't assume they're playing solidly from start to finish every hand.
This may be a low stake exploit Bart has covered before, but some of those guys live to pounce on weakness. They don't understand pot control or that not all good hands go for 3 streets of value, so a check at any point instills them with all the confidence in the world.
you make a very good point about low stakes players thinking a pot control check is 100% weakness. I see this happen All the Time at 1/3.
yeah very well said. we're definitely grading on a curve here. solid for these limits is basically akin to "not inept, probably winning in this lineup". but ofc this player will likely still have huge holes in his game so if you fold a hand like this thinking hes never bluffing/value betting worse bc you wouldnt or a good player wouldnt you are definitely not maximally exploiting your opponents enough in these games.
To be fair I think the villain likely thought he could get worse to call and better to fold with his Jam
Hero would rather call here with A8 78 or 89. Blocking thick value.
As such TT-AA nad indifferent, but 8x is a pure call.
I don't think villain is losing any money in this line given hero has 7 combos of 8x, nd may fold TT sometimes.
If hero always bets QQ-AA, then it's simply printing. Hero will likely show up with only TT, 99 and 8x as played.
I actually like it as a thin value bet. Assuming hero doesn't. Check any Jx.
@@PhonyBolognaYou're giving a "snap-shove" way too much credit for an attempt at "merging", which is literally a contradictory reason for doing anything on the river.
@@cj7139 contradictory to what? The good player (Villain), not trying to let him know he was a step ahead of him by merging, and thus saying he was bluffing? Villain could easily be piecing this together on turn, since river was a complete brick.
Fact is, if hero only has TT, 99 and 8x. Jamming 99 is printing. As TT 'should' fold, and 8x should call. However its fine if he calls with both parts of that range.
Based on this call hero is in NO WAY folding A8 suited and playing it identical, same goes for the 1-2 combos of 89s and potentially 3 combos of 78s.
So villain loses to 4 combos of TT (hero may fold some of these), chops with 99, wins vs 8 combos of 8x, more or less.
I think the Guy with 99 just panicked once his turn bet gets called and pushed it all in on the River. I have done this. (Have also Learned not to) and see it at the table all the time
Let’s Go.. Thank you Bart for another interesting hand review!
If I had to take a guess as to what V is thinking, it would go something like this. On the flop, I have an overpair to the board and H could just be c-betting his range on this flop, and could have AK, AQ, etc. that I'm ahead of right now. On the turn when H checks, he probably puts him on the broadway hands that missed and now wants to bet for protection. When H calls, V is thinking one of two things, either I'm ahead of 8x or now realized they are behind to something like TT and need to bluff river. If H lead jams, I wouldn't be surprised if V folds and once checked to, he either is going for thin value against an 8 or bluffing. Of course, I don't know if that is what V is thinking but my best guess for a player at this stake level.
i agree except i dont think he is going for thin value, i think he is trying to get a fold, you would have to be a lunatic to be jamming to get a call from an 8 :)
When the villian said " I put you on 10's", the correct response to that is that I called because I put you on pocket nines!!!
Villain's line makes sense to me. When hero checks the turn, he eliminates QQ+ and a lot of jacks from his range. With the loose cannon still in the hand, Villain wants to bet big, to look as bluffy as he can. The fact that hero might sometimes fold a better hand is icing.
very important to note which villains in a game like this are capable of making plays like this. i feel like i talk about this in the comments section for every low limit hand where the hero ends up on the river in a bluffcatching scenario.
although i will say there is definitely a distinction between the 'i know my 99 is no good here, so ill turn it into a bluff' line of thought and the 'i knew you had exactly TT and thought you might fold' line of thought. if villian is the latter (sounds like he might be) then perhaps there isnt anything of use to be learned here lol.
I've been getting into a profitable habit of 1/3 of calling snap bets when the board changes on rivers after showing some weakness. Felt like a stab on the turn
Bart: 9’s !! ?????? What was he thinking…..
Myself: 😂 😂 😂 😂
Bart, thanks for the video. One recommendation is to not use the word MP since all 8 positions can be clearly defined. Just use HJ if HJ. MP can be a shortcut to combine positions, but there is no need here.
Serious question, why couldn’t it be J8?
In a 1/3 game, where loads of limps I often see MP’s flatting pre with such a hand. You could say it wouldn’t make sense that it’s J8 when it counterfits the river, but why discount it before the river?
100% - live low stakes players out here over calling with J7o… they absolutely have J8s and tbh it might even be a reasonable value jam *against the low stakes player pool* on the river given villain can discount AA KK QQ after turn c/c.
Villain could be going for value against 8x against the player behind but with the Hero betting flop and c/c turn I would think would be 99+ or missed draws. I'm betting my A8 on the turn, c/f my 98 and 87, and c/c my 1010+ if I don't bet those.
That was the perfect situation for sandbagging a set in a low limit game. With 6 players and a board THAT dry, you want to keep as many in as possible. Plus, adding the WTF confusion you're discussing.
I find the tie breaker is the snap jam. Not always but usually a high % this is a bluff. In this case a value bluff merge 😮😢😅
You should have asked him what his live read was on the "afterthought talk" in the cafeteria or whereever...
Remember when AA was raise, cbet, auto check turn lol
You had this one already.
Seeing a common thread here of these people betting on the river and they don't know why
He put you on TT! What a soul read!
we beat A5s, A3s, 65s, 76s, we lose to 88, 44, 22 which I think are lowered in frequency based on timing, seems like slam dunk bluff catch
edit: if this guy has 99 here then I check to him every hand after this and never fold lmao, also shows that sometimes the read of "solid player" is pretty skewed, sure maybe the guy's running over weak players with absurd aggression but that doesn't mean he's a solid player, he has extremely large leaks
The notorious river snap jam.....
Making it a relatively easy call right?
In regards to giving away pieces of yourself, which do you consider the tastiest?
As slightly diff. Villain can reasonably have J8 and value betting that
Up til the river Ac8c would make sense
Why couldn’t villain have had T9cc for an open ended straight draw + backdoor flush draw? I think that has a lot of merit to consider.
Listening along… it was the pacing of the all-in bet that eliminated a nutted hand from his range. People usually take their time with very strong value hands like 44/88. The fact that the villain bet so fast tells me he was either bluffing or over representing something with marginal showdown value and I think I would have concluded that I had to make a sigh call (defaulting to the strong means weak mantra)
Villain calls next to act in a multi-way pot, on a dry flop, with multiple opponents left to call. Should never have that many backdoor floats in that postion. If he does, he's just lighting money on fire
ya its because he called next to act on the flop with 5 people behind him. It’s just a really bad play to do so it was discounted. If he was _last_ to act or it was a heads up pot it’d be different
Makes no sense for him to snap jam, I knew he was bluffing! If you had it, you'd want a call, and would slow play it a little. If you snap jam, and you're not a nit, it tells me this was a planned jam to make me think you had it. I'm not always correct in these, but that's how it seemed to me. 👍😎✌🗽
why do people call in if they clearly don’t care what bart has to say 😅
This kid was an obnoxious know it all who loved the sound of his own voice, while sneaking in some approval seeking statements/questions to balance it out some.
This was painful. I work with guys like this. Take a Fn breath and let people reply before you ramble on over them
He’s an obnoxious know it all. Loves how smart he thinks he sounds.
That was A / 4 or A / J all day
Not sure why no one is considering A5 or A3 of clubs.
Bart can I buy 1% of your main @ 1.5?
Why call in if you don’t want to hear Bart’s take?
Villain doesn’t know if he is betting for value or bluffing. He is just betting. When I am in game, live - I sometimes ask myself, is my opponent potentially handicapped? Does he get confused and frustrated with colors and numbers? Did he wear a mask outside in a park while walking alone? If the answer is potentially yes, calling here is fine.
Turn is a fold.
I'm folding. Any 4x wins. Slow play set.
A8 clubs
Well I was wrong.
7:16 _...jack should not have any relevance whatsoever_
Why?
The idea is; what hands are calling a flop bet that have a Jack in them
10J, JQ, JK, AJ - all seem really unlikely to get to a flop 6 handed… you’d probably see a raise with some of these holdings
8J is only reasonable hand if you’re given someone credit for a J, which again is a weird hand to turn up with in this specific set up… seems wild to think someone’s calling s preflop bet with that hand
Not impossible but working with probabilities it’s just unlikely
I’ve seen weirder things happen mind you, people I play regular with would rock up with J4 off and shout “robbi” when they turn over the hand on the river for a boat
1 - 3 at rivers is a joke
That guy don’t know what he’s doing
Bart please don't try to use logic to make sense of 1/3...
Gimme da loot!