The behavior you notice at 3:30 is a result of basic electrochemistry, ionic resistance, ESR, etc. Stuff I'm sure you are familiar with. If you fully discharge a battery, down to 2.8V, once you disconnect it the voltage will recover (it might even get back to 4V! Don't be fooled!) however the ESR will stay high in the discharged state (that is to say the voltage will sag immediately being connected to a load) I like to think of this like when playing a sport like soccer. It wears you out but if you take a break, you regain your breath and some energy to keep on, but of course you can't perform nearly as well or long. Some other quirks about battery life, the faster you discharge it, the less energy you will be able to extract. A 3000mAH battery might only deliver 1900mAH at 5A load. If you let the cell rest and recover you can squeeze a small amount more out of it but not much more. Likewise discharging slower would allow more energy to be extracted. Typically, 18650 cells are discharge tested at 200mA constant current. If you want to make a discharge graph when powering a device with a switching buck converter, use a Constant Power discharge. If you are powering a device with a linear regulator, then use constant current. If you are powering a brushed motor or other "passive" load (like a lamp) then use a constant resistance discharge. That will be the most accurate type of discharge for the particular application. Of course try to match the power/current/resistance of the discharge to match the load you plan to use.
I must say that I've enjoyed all your videos regarding Lion batteries. They represent a general course and quick start guide for the DIY electric bike and solar home storage enthusiast. Now I'm compelled to buy a front bike hub and recycle all my laptop batteries for some summertime experimentation/fun. Kudos to you and I've noted you have nurtured others to build bike batteries and post a video, reference your work. Your work here is a win-win for you and your viewers.
Great video. I charge my 18650's to 4.20 volts and then do a discharge test and my results are 2.98 V time 3:17 and only getting 54 mah so I guess these cells are junk correct? Is their anyway to revive old 18650's?
idk of any ways to revive them, and yeah they look to be really dead. but how many amps are you pulling? the more amps you pull from a battery, the more energy is wasted as heat. so maybe it'll have more capacity on smaller loads.
I have original B6 mini and I don' have problem like this. I just set my 18650 cell to Li-lo discharging 1mAh and it measure mAh smooth as it should. When battery is lowering capacity b6 mini change mAh to 0,9 to 0,7 0,5 0,2 etc. It measures and sense battery for perfect discharge. My unit is also connected to PC via usb for monitoring. I updated firmware from v 1.1 to v1.2 and now it's even better. I highly recommend b6 mini original only6! Be careful because they are fakes over whole internet! Check your unit serial number with official website. Cheers
I know this is a really old comment, but anyone reading this should know for this electrical application to get the nickel-plated version of the "neodymium" magnets. A couple of notes. 1. Neodymium magnets come in different compositions. The cheaper formulations are generally acceptable for this application and you don't have to buy the most expensive version. 2. Over time the nickel-plating can be compromised and actually break/peel/flake off of the magnet itself. After that happens the magnet can quickly deteriorate especially in high humidity areas. Just periodically check the magnets for plating damage. This is especially true for the smaller magnets that are shipped in long assemblies of magnets stacked one on top of the other. The combined forces applied by the magnetic attraction can put so much pressure on the plating that over time it can crack which allows it to eventually peel off the magnet.
Great videos! One thing i noticed is it looks like your imax b6 is a knock off and why it's over charging batteries. All genuine imax b6 units have a sticker on the back that you can lookup on the manufacturers website to verify it's genuine. Does yours pass this test?
LiPo batteries are considered dead @ 3v, 3.7v is nominal and full charge is 4.2v. A fully charged 18650 is best measured at a discharge rate of .5A .. Bringing voltage below 3V is risking damage to battery. The 18650 will recover when drawn at high rate. Try drawing the discharge at a slower rate to not shock the battery which none of the three in this video are designed for high rate of draw . This is why your results are flawed. if you want to test high rate batteries try batteries such as the Sony VTC4 or the LG HB6
Maybe I problem with using the discharge on these units mate. I did the same thing and the Amp draw was way off, but it still calculates the mah on the ampage you enter. I used a separate tester and although I set it to draw an amp, it was during about .6 and the max counter added up a lot faster than it did on my other tester reading the actual amps being drawn. I know it was a long time ago, but just something to note.
@@guitardedimbisol6087 thats a li ion but the charger cant liion and liion and lipo are very similar. The capacity drops so the capacity isnt that what is on the battery wrote.
Can i do a discharge test with other types of batteries like 18650 26650 IMR/ ICR/INR/LiMN with this device? i am also looking for a device that can analyze the how much amp these cells can kick safely and resist .
wish I would have seen your video months ago. Have you had your i-max go rogue where it charges a li-ion cells up to 4.5-4.7volts? Great video, thank you.
Hi Rinoa, Right now I'm also building a battery pack and I just want to say your videos have been very helpful. I have the same fake iMax B6 charger as you and I just have one quick question about it. What is the difference between the different discharge modes, i.e. when you choose a different battery type. Is it only the range you can set for the end voltage and amp draw or does it do anything else? Right now I'm in the process of checking the capacity of my batteries (78 in total) and am noticing what you mentioned in some other video as well, that when you choose 1 amp draw current for LiPo, it doesn't actually do that. Can I instead just use any other mode and choose the same values as I would have on the LiPo setting and it would work just as good? (... but with a consistent current draw) I hope you see this message and find time to answer it. Jesper
Mr Super-Genius thanks for the videos, since you weren't quite 100% satisfied with this charger which one would you recommend for a little bit more dough for the same application? (ebike 48V battery pack)
Hi, I have the same IMAX B6. Please tell me how can I check the capacity by charging/ discharging Lipo battery 1,5V (seller written capacity 4000mAh) in battery type D. And it have micro usb port for charging. As I understand there is small 3,7 V Lipo inside with converter to 1,5V. So should I charge/discharge for test through the micro usb port as normal 3,7 v Lipo?
Indeed, the ONLY discharge profile that lets you modify min (discharge-to) voltage is NiCD. The default min discharge voltage for LiFe is way too low, at 2V. Needs to be more like 2.7. So, to be able to safely discharge LiFePo4, you select NiCd and set the discharge voltage to 2.7. You'd then use that profile (NiCD) when doing the discharge excersize. Don't forget to switch back to proper mode when doing charging. Discharge power max is 5W, so you will have to adjust the discharge current to stay within the limit. For example, discharging single LiFePo4 cell, at 3.2V, you max discharge current needs to be 1.5A or less. Otherwise, if you set it above that value, Imax will stop discharge after about 11 secs
hi rinoa can you advise how to charge a row of 18650 new cells s that dropped to 1.3v 5p when used in my ebike .others were over 3v .they are in a vruzend kit so can separate easy .this happened before a 5p row of Samsung new cells dropped to 2.0v .its a 52v 14s5p kit diy.
Hiya! How did you know you didn't buy a fake imax?...supposedly there's a bunch of em on the net. I tried searching but what does this do that a nitecore charger won't? what does it do that your ac/dc power supply doesn't?
because real/fake are pretty much the same thing. its not aporpriate to called it a "fake" charger when it works ok. it would be better to call it a "knock-off "
the ones that aren t fake have a sticker at the back. from the things that i know the sticker has a product code to register it online . but i am not 100% sure
MIKAEL'S LAB Yes there is, i have a genuine one and i checked on this website www.skyrc.com/antifake/indexen.php And it showed up as genuine!!! P.S If this comment needs approval due to the link pls allow this.
Mr Genius,, I purchased 72 18650 batteries, and i was wondering if you could tell me a rough or gestimated AH for my battery.. it will be 6x12 at 36vdc..the mah are unkown so i just would like a educated guess.. I really been watching and admiring your
+Rinoa Super-Genius I'm testing some old and probably shitty 18650 Li-Ion batteries and trying to meassure their capacity. I'm discharging them using the imax b6 with the Li-Po program at 1A down to 3.0V. The voltage drops pretty fast down to 3V and is kept there. soon after the discharge current starts dropping as well. I this normal behavior? I was expecting the discharge current to stay at a constant 1A and the program to end once 3V is reached?
Where did you get that nice charger..would love to have one...what..is the input voltage for the charger?...nice video..by the way. I seen one from china for $19.00 and $3.50 shipping, but would rather get it local, which is Long Island NY...
When using NiCd battery to discharge on cycles. Discharge charge 2. After first step, discharge it gives a voltage error and the discharge charge cycle stops. Can you explain why and am I doing something wrong?
Good video. Got a question for you. Will this charge a lithium 18650 15v 20ah pack ? I bought 2 of the imax b6 chargers and was hoping it would be able to charge them.
Does it sit around 4.2v and keep charging for a while? Also, if the cell gets pretty warm at a 4.0v charge, then how long should I keep it on the charger?
Rinoa you are the Man to ask, Do you know of a Balance discharger with pre set volts per cell like you are doing here with single cell for 18650 down to about 2.6 v or whatever for my 6s1p packs ? cheers Brett
+kermets so you want to take each cell down to a specific voltage? ya mean like bottom ballancing? im not a fan of bottom ballancing myself, and i dont know any that are precise when they go down that far.
Ok thanks for the reply, My Accucell 6 similar as imax B6 only goes down to 3v per cell and that maybe leaves 20 % capacity untested, my way if it was possible you could batch discharge/charge in packs of 6 or whatever you set the battery holders up for with balance plug, would save doing this per cell which is taking forever to recover/test 100 or so cells etc, cheers Brett
I have a 60v SLA battery in my bike and I want to add 60v lithium pack to it as a backup can I wire both the negiteves from both battery's to the Ebike. And have only 1 positive from 1 battery pack at a time connected to the bike. Or will doing this wreck the lithium set. I don't want to hook both up at the same time I just want 1 set to use until it dies and flip a breaker off to disconnect the SLA positive terminal. And flip on the lithium set positive breaker Let me know if this is safe as I don't want to have it break. Thanks
sure did! i got a pack of like 100 of those neodymium magnets. my dad's funeral printing company bought them for an urn box thing that never sold. so i took the magnets home. it is such a pain in the butt to connect batteries together without soldering or magnets.
Rinoa Super-Genius I have the same charger as well, never explored the other settings. I have just go hold of some stupidly high capacity cells from China which i might test now!
oh nice! i ordered some of those UltraFire cells i'm always talking shit about. i've seen some people test them and they come back as like 400mah instead of 3ah. so i finally bought a handful and will test them when they come in. i seriously hope i'm wrong and that they really are new and 3ah per cell.
Nice video. Got a question for anyone who can bothered answering. I have bought a 6800 mAh ni-mh 7.2v 6 cell battery pack. I have used it once with an r/c car. It didn't seem to get as long as expected out of once use, its meant to last for 30 - 40mins only lasted about 10 mins. I was thinking... will discharging the battery completely then charging it make the battery perform better? If so, should i discharge every time before charging. Also, I have zero knowledge about battery discharging what do i set the Amp and voltage settings to for safe discharge on an imax dual charger? Thanks
well since your question was asked 7 yrs ago this wont help you but for anyone else who might wonder if they should completely discharge a lipo battery before charging...NO, absolutely not. Doing so will either kill it on the spot or greatly damage it and ruin its capacity. I have found that most causes of premature failure of lipo batts is from over discharging them. I would recommend not to take it down below 3.2 volts per cell. That's how you get the most charges and best performance from lipo batteries. There really isn't much benefit from over extending the useful charge from a lipo, the performance suffers substantially below 3.2 volts anyway so where is the enjoyment from under performing while ruining your equipment?
I need some help, I have some cells which getting pretty hot during the charge (icr18650 samsung 20f 2000 mAh, 12 pcs, charger Imax B6 same as yours) I m discharging them at 1A then charging @ 1A at 3.7 but when it stores approx. 500 mAh its getting hot like 45 degrees and stopping charge since I set temp. protection to 45 C. no other batteries behaving that, so does these cells need special handling or all 12 pcs of them bad ?
sorry, for the samsung 18650 cells, 20F indicates the cells mAh capacity like 20F is 2000 mAh and 22F is 2200 mAh, see ; i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/349/501/599/599501349_221.jpg and I have 12 pieces of them. I guess I will have to toss em to recycling box. too bad they could have been a good pack, thanks anyway !
Bilal Öz well i wouldnt say throw them away, even if they are crusty you can use them as a crappy battery pack for backup or something unimportant. so when you stop charging them what voltage are they at and do they slowly go down? it may just be that they are very old and have only like 500mah and so puting 1a into 500mah heats it up a lot. how do you know they have 2ah? did they give 2ah in a discharge test you did? also where did you get them? i hope you got them from an old laptop battery instead of getting ripped off by ebay listings for individual cells.
Rinoa Super-Genius actually I got them from a friend of mine. he working on an e-store, a few days ago I visited him and asked if he have some unused or scrap laptop batteries so he gave me two packs of old batteries free of charge which they used for lifting the laptops on the window shopping lol. I returned to my workshop happily, ripped them apart :12 flawless samsung ICR 18650 20F cells ! . I googled this code and found they got capacity of 2000 mAh ! they were all about 2.8 ~3.2 volts, much happier now. since I don't have much experience on testing the capacity I decided to discharge each of them first. all of their discharge capacities were about 200~300 mAh and that bothered me in the first place. then I put them on charge and realised they r getting real hot, and voltage of cell doesn't go down when charging stop. voltage stops where it was. tomorrow I will charge them on 500 mAh and post the results here. it don't matter for me to lose them, at least I can use them for the flashlight
Rinoa Super-Genius by the way I managed to revive 6 dead cells watching your instructions, now they can draw 2200 mAh smoothly. thanks for valuable information keep up the good work !
+Stephen Garner 6s1p is the same as 6s. 6s means 6 batteries in series, 1p means one parralel. is is like saying 6x1 or 6. same thing. As for how to test the batteries, there should be a balancing plug that will give you access to each battery in the pack. By using a voltmeter you should be able to figure out which wires are for which battery and test the cells individually with pairs of wires.
I have some type of 18650 battery 4000mAh, 4200mAh & 4800mAh Li-Ion. How do I calculate how many Amps are necessary for each different 18650 mAh battery for charging using the Imax B6?
Rinoa Super-Genius If I charge in the amount of 1.0 A to 18650 4000mAh battery, is it appropriate for li-ion battery? Additional information: I used to charge the battery of 2200mAh 55c li-po & charging 2.0 A for RC Helicopter. But I am not used to charge the battery type li-ion & how to Amp per mAh battery as appropriate. I need your expertise & experience. Thank you.
i didn't discharge them bellow 2.6v. i discharged them to about 3.3v to 3.8v as you see in the video. also in my first battery pack i pulled like 2-4 amps per cell. but don't worry i'm being as safe as i see fit :D
with what i understand about how a lithium cell works is that the voltage should never drop under 2.6v even if it bounces back to 3.8v because when it is at a low voltage the metal ions have either depleted in regions on the plates or filled up in regions on the opposite plate so even an average distribution afterwards means it will have 3.8v you have regions of either overdepletion or overaccumulation during that low voltage time. leading to the formation of the things that cause cells to go bad or explode. which can explain why a heavily used cell could more likely fail or have its life reduced faster than a lightly used cell.
Hooked up 13 cells charged around 4.1 in series to this charger and it popped my 1000uf 35v capacitor. I thought these could handle that? Guess not. Will it handle 12 in a series? B6 will charge a 48v pack correct?
i have the same charger and my chg/disch readings are similar.all my elcrappo chinese cell read 4.1 vdc when charged. i would worry about drawing an unprotected cell below 3 volts as it may not recover. even after depleting in my radio,my new eneloop nimh cells dont show their rated 850mah on the disply after charging. .
Hey Ya. Rinoa Super-Genius You make a mistake by discharging li ion less than 3V. Firstly its the best way to destroy Your cells Secondly think about practical usage. If You put charged 18650 battery for example 13S you get 48V and as you do discharge them to 2V You will receive 26V (13 x 2V) summary. Have You ever thought that 48V BLDC controller cut off limit is standard 42V. So as you can see even a pro bldc controllers treat properly li-ion cells discharging them only to 3.2V So if discharging li-ion to less than 3V is: -dangerous -destructive for the cell -impractical because of worst effect of working electrical devices on the half of voltage (slower / non starting)
Completely incorrect. Have you ever looked at the datasheet of a LG Choco 18650 battery? Or a Samsung 25R battery? They both say min voltage is 2.5v. The specified capacity is of course a full charge to 4.2v and then discharge with constant current down to 2.5v. Usually with current 0.2 times of the specified capacity. Thus, if the battery states 2500mAh, you should discharge with 0.5A to get the correct end result. He is testing the capacity of the battery. Not USING the battery, so the practical usage is irrelevant here. He simply want to check the exact capacity, which would be discharging until it reaches 2.5v. Having that said, I am pretty confident that he is using a chinese clone of the IMAX B6. Those are not calibrated correctly at the factory and will give you wong current and voltage readings in the first place.
@@aliensanonymous5063 plug out cable, press and hold dec and start, plug cable in, wait for it to boot, you will enter menu and then you can add or remove voltage, so it reads it well, measure battery with multimeter and when you are done, simply press start.
Hey Rinoa .Very informative videos you have..Anyhow just wondering if you know the exact size in mm of the dc power plug coming into the imax b6 mini. Thanks and keep up the good work.
+Eugene Ng an a safe rate for a some what used or new battery is 1 amp then do a discharge when full to see if it has higher capacity for higher amps when charging
Hey, what do you truely think of the imaxb6 balance charger? I see some on ebay for 23 bucks and have been thinking.... are they worth it, or is there something better.
i think its definatly worth it. i was expecting mine to last like 4 months but its been a full year and mine is still working. i have noticed it overheats at lower amps now, but oh well. it used to be if i charged my 24v pack with more than 4.5 amps the LCD would turn purple and it would start smelling of solder, now it gets that way at anything over 1 amp for 24v. i think i ran it too hard and melted the solder away from some components. but still its held up fine. and i think my next one will last much longer since i now know when it gets too hot. you way want to get the Imax B6AC instead of the B6. i'm going to look into that. but if you get the B6 you can run it off a 12v computer power supply easilly.
Rinoa Super-Genius So I took your advice and picked up the imax b6ac.... but I cant seem to get it to work. I am probably doing something wrong, I tried to charge some romba battery packs I had laying around and all it would do is say connection break. I'm lost. I saw in some of your other videos you tricked it to charge one with adding a diff battery so I did the same. It would charge my nimh bat, I remove the good one and let the romba nimh bat to charge, then back to connection break. Any ideas?
Rinoa Super-Genius Thanks! :) Sorry, just to clarify what is 1 series? You mean 1S? :) So if I charge it at 3.7V it will actually go to 4.2V? Cause my battery is rated at 4.2 V fully charged...
bratan007 4.1v will give you 2x as many charge discharge cycles. i try to charge mine to 4.0 to 4.1 so i get 2-4x as long lifespan. just a few less miles on each charge.
Hey, im searching a way to discharge lots of cells so i can record each of the cells capacity. I have hundreds to do and imax is soooo slow. Making a 48v battery to cycle 100 miles, manchester to conwyn. Uk. Lkve your channel btw.
your charge to 4.1V and discharge to 3.0V this should be a difference of 1.1V, so if you have a 2200mA/h 18650 this mean you are using only 2.42WH of the total capacity of 9.24WH, I'm right or I'm missing something
well there are a lot of myths regarding epsom salt inside a battery like 1: desulfation 2: increased AH/capacity 3: increased voltage 4: increased amps it can provide and only the last 2 are correct it seems. my battery's capacity didn't raise or desulfate but it does stay at a higher voltage and can provide more amps. i mean when i pull power from it the voltage dips a lot less. but i am going to do this experiment a few times and make a few more videos on it.
Rinoa Super-Genius Great! With your tests one can get a clearer picture on the method, can't wait for it, because I still have an old battery in the garage, so, let's see :) Thank's for the detailed answer! PS: I'll get you the laptop battery model soon, I just can't find it right now^^ :D
Brian Su though everything I've read says it's dangerous or death to the cell to discharge them past 2.5v. The power/voltage curves fall off a cliff past 3v so I wonder what extra % mAh the test showed by discharging to 2v?
Mytheroo Ahh I'm not sure. I think it's not advisable but depends largely on the quality of the cells. I've had forum members discharge their LiPos to very low voltages but they still work, or so they say...
+OnlineBackupServices I have the fake one and have ordered a real one after noticing. I got a refund on the fake one and I have issues with mine too. You'll need to disable the 2 hour limiter on the fake imax for it to fully discharge the battery but even then the charger is unable to read the correct voltage.
I just recently purchased a genuine b6ac v2....... Unless the earlier version was riddled with errors and faults I think you have a fake. The only thing I have noticed is the lipo setting works better than the li ion setting due to not being able to change the 3.6v up to 3.7v. Annoying but shit happens
because lipo and li+ are the same exact thing, except on this charger there is a differance of 0.1v. and the lower you charge your lithium cells the longer they last. there is no "correct" mode. just differant modes that attain differant results.
Discharge at 300 milliamps and you can get the test results in one go instead of retesting the same battery till you get all the amp hour readings you need
+Richard lawrence I've been looking for an answer to your question for a couple of years but haven't found the answer. An arduino and multiplexer could measure a multi-cell discharge but I was not smart enough in electronics to trust the results of the prototype I tried to build. Good luck.
+Richard lawrence You would need to build a custom circuit that would discharge each cell individually and monitor each cells voltage as it discharges. This could be done with a constant current load circuit connected to an arduino or similar micro controller. How many cells are you looking to discharge at one time?
I never take them below 3v, below 3v they get weird, and easily damaged. i usually charge to 4.15, best cheap I have currently found is the turnigy 4s5ah hardcases. split to make into whatever. but under 3v, I'd never do it...
Well I,m not taking them bellow 3v for sitting voltage. Just for under load. They jump back up right after the load test. But when I use them I recharge them once they get to like 3.8-3.9v.
Yeah theres lots of tech info and golden rules but a lot of them don't transfer to the real world too well. It's like the two religions of either top balance often or bottom balance once till needed again. I'm currently doing half a pack one way and half the other till end of December to see what happens.
What is the right way to arrange the 18650 batteries after a discharge test. here is the mah of the batteries electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/232698/diy-pack-amp-difference
Nice video and info. The voltage of the cells is dropping so quick under load and going up so fast is because of the internal resistance of the battery. You just cannot discharge a high IR battery with more than a few hundred mAmps. Also the voltage is shooting up when charging because of 2 reasons: 1: The connections have to be as good as posible; 2: You need to charge them with a low charging current so the voltage won't overshoot because of the high IR of the battery. Hope this helps :)
ciprianwiner well it makes sense if you think of it as a solid state electrical device but its not. you gotta remember its a chemical reaction taking place inside it.
Rinoa Super-Genius Of course there is a chemical reaction. There are 2 things related: 1: Electric resistance and 2: Ionic resistance. The electric resistance is instant and the Ionic resistance takes a bit of time to kick in. That's why the battery voltage won't jump right up.
this is awkward I purchased Imax B6 today and did not read any instruction from manual, I guess I learned all from this video and dont need manual anymore haha
The charger you're using is a knockoff. they work fine though. discharging batteries with low mah at 1A is not smart, and most likely the reason your discharge wasn't working right.
yeah. but hey some capacity is still useful. maybe save all the super dead cells and put them together into one big battery. you could use that for an off-grid experiment or something. or do what i'm doing put them all together to make a battery to take camping. even used lithium cells would beat lead acid :D
Batteries are merely the power source for something. The question is what is that something going to be? The world's most powerful cattle prod? Another Altair IV disaster? A device used by Batman and Robin's latest foe - Professor Purple? The suspense is unbearable.
+EXALLIEVI DI DON BOSCO, NCR GROUP, PH no its not fake, it does work, its just a knock-off most likely made at the same factory on a third shift. if it was truly "fake" itd be hollow ir whatever
You shouldn't be discharging an 18650 battery lower than 3v and the reason it's not going back up to the start voltage is because your damaging the battery by doing so. Stop giving really bad advice never select the wrong battery type for charging or discharge mah testing. As that's how you damage and can even blow up the battery.
Rinoa Super-Genius [Your giving out Bad and unsafe Information!] 18650 batteries ARE NOT LiPo Batteries, they are Li-ion [Lithium Ion] Never mix or charge or discharge different chemisty batteries than what you have set in settings. You are asking for trouble if not very hot and maybe a fire or exploding batteries. You are perfect canidate for a Protection Bag or metal container to charge and store your batteries in so if you have a fire or explosion you won't burn your house down. Gary Bart Application Engineer
lithium-Ion and Lithium-Polymar are the exact same thing, just differant production methods. hope that helps. btw cells only get hot when they short out, and they will almost never short out if you keep their voltages right.
Rinoa Super-Genius I'm not sure if this is an accurate statement. The discharge rate of li-ion cells is usually stated to be 1C-3C (at most), and it is even difficult to find the actual figure for any brand I've ever bothered to look up so far. I consider their discharge rate to be always 1C (the mAh capacity rate x1). As for lipo batteries, they are usually rated 10C-30C (and beyond). So, while the comment regarding that their CHEMISTRY is the exact same could be true (and even that I don't know), the different production methods DO MATTER quite a lot in the end result. That I know for a fact. If you try to discharge a li-ion at 5A, you'll probably make the PCB overdischarge protection kick in, in the best scenario, or just downright ruin the cell(s). On the other hand, most lipo(s) can provide 5A while whistling along, AFAIK.
The Li-Po are set to 4.2V max charge, and has a set discharge cut-off voltage of 3.0V. Li-Ion are only 4.1v max charge, and have a deeper discharge cut-off at 2.5v, meaning they perform better at lower voltages. These are Li-Ion batteries, so the tests will be inaccurate with the wrong settings. Also, setting the discharge at a lower rate with used batteries, will give you a more accurate figure at the end, since they tend to drop voltage alot faster under higher discharge, even though they aren't completely drained. Else a good video :)
Rinoa Super-Genius Very interesting video thanks. I think you're correct. "Lithium polymer" in everyday use just means lithium ion battery in a soft pouch. "The denomination "lithium polymer" has caused confusion among battery users. It may be interpreted in two ways. Originally, "lithium polymer" stood for a developing technology using a polymer electrolyte instead of the more common liquid electrolyte. The result is a "plastic" cell, which theoretically could be thin, flexible, and manufactured in different shapes, without risk of electrolyte leakage. This technology has not been fully developed and commercialized, and research is ongoing. The second meaning appeared when some manufacturers started applying the "polymer" denomination to lithium-ion cells in pouch format. This is the most extended use nowadays, where "polymer" went from indicating a "polymer electrolyte" to mean a "polymer casing", that is, the soft, external pouch." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery
@@RinoaL lol if you think the video is that worthless you should probably just remove it to spare people the time wasted? To your credit, I think the information is pretty useful and I enjoyed the video. Must be all those weird hormones skewing with your rational sense again
Hey, im searching a way to discharge lots of cells so i can record each of the cells capacity. I have hundreds to do and imax is soooo slow. Making a 48v battery to cycle 100 miles, manchester to conwyn. Uk. Lkve your channel btw.
are the cells origenally dead? i had a lot of random used cells that where at like 3.3v so i charged them all to 3.6v then used the imax b6 to charge them to 4.2v and it counted up how many AH it too to charge them. i know thats not exact but saves a lot of time.
Richard Banner you only need to test each parallel pack, not the individual cells. if the laptop batteries came with the cells connected in 4 then you just test each pack of 4 and devide by number of cells.
The behavior you notice at 3:30 is a result of basic electrochemistry, ionic resistance, ESR, etc. Stuff I'm sure you are familiar with. If you fully discharge a battery, down to 2.8V, once you disconnect it the voltage will recover (it might even get back to 4V! Don't be fooled!) however the ESR will stay high in the discharged state (that is to say the voltage will sag immediately being connected to a load) I like to think of this like when playing a sport like soccer. It wears you out but if you take a break, you regain your breath and some energy to keep on, but of course you can't perform nearly as well or long.
Some other quirks about battery life, the faster you discharge it, the less energy you will be able to extract. A 3000mAH battery might only deliver 1900mAH at 5A load. If you let the cell rest and recover you can squeeze a small amount more out of it but not much more. Likewise discharging slower would allow more energy to be extracted. Typically, 18650 cells are discharge tested at 200mA constant current.
If you want to make a discharge graph when powering a device with a switching buck converter, use a Constant Power discharge. If you are powering a device with a linear regulator, then use constant current. If you are powering a brushed motor or other "passive" load (like a lamp) then use a constant resistance discharge. That will be the most accurate type of discharge for the particular application. Of course try to match the power/current/resistance of the discharge to match the load you plan to use.
Heyo! Try discharging at a smaller amperage, maybe .5 or less. It'll take longer, but I'm pretty sure the voltage won't rise after.
I must say that I've enjoyed all your videos regarding Lion batteries. They represent a general course and quick start guide for the DIY electric bike and solar home storage enthusiast. Now I'm compelled to buy a front bike hub and recycle all my laptop batteries for some summertime experimentation/fun. Kudos to you and I've noted you have nurtured others to build bike batteries and post a video, reference your work. Your work here is a win-win for you and your viewers.
Great video. I charge my 18650's to 4.20 volts and then do a discharge test and my results are 2.98 V time 3:17 and only getting 54 mah so I guess these cells are junk correct? Is their anyway to revive old 18650's?
idk of any ways to revive them, and yeah they look to be really dead. but how many amps are you pulling?
the more amps you pull from a battery, the more energy is wasted as heat. so maybe it'll have more capacity on smaller loads.
I have original B6 mini and I don' have problem like this. I just set my 18650 cell to Li-lo discharging 1mAh and it measure mAh smooth as it should. When battery is lowering capacity b6 mini change mAh to 0,9 to 0,7 0,5 0,2 etc. It measures and sense battery for perfect discharge. My unit is also connected to PC via usb for monitoring. I updated firmware from v 1.1 to v1.2 and now it's even better. I highly recommend b6 mini original only6! Be careful because they are fakes over whole internet! Check your unit serial number with official website. Cheers
***** it changes the discharge amperage to 0.9, 0.7, 0.5, 0.2 etc, not the mAh :)
So is the cell end voltage you can see in the cell data sheets under load or without any load?!? This video confuses me.
What kind of magnets are you using on the ends of the batteries? Where do I find those. It seems like a smart way to do that.
I'd like to know too, did you ever find out ? Thanks !
neodymium magnets, you can get them on ebay pretty cheap. Also radio shack has them.
Thanks will go looking
Get them from discarded harddrives.
I know this is a really old comment, but anyone reading this should know for this electrical application to get the nickel-plated version of the "neodymium" magnets.
A couple of notes.
1. Neodymium magnets come in different compositions. The cheaper formulations are generally acceptable for this application and you don't have to buy the most expensive version.
2. Over time the nickel-plating can be compromised and actually break/peel/flake off of the magnet itself. After that happens the magnet can quickly deteriorate especially in high humidity areas. Just periodically check the magnets for plating damage. This is especially true for the smaller magnets that are shipped in long assemblies of magnets stacked one on top of the other. The combined forces applied by the magnetic attraction can put so much pressure on the plating that over time it can crack which allows it to eventually peel off the magnet.
Hi Rinoa
Nice video!
How do you or have you tested the continous discharge or max current dischargeable rating?
Great videos! One thing i noticed is it looks like your imax b6 is a knock off and why it's over charging batteries. All genuine imax b6 units have a sticker on the back that you can lookup on the manufacturers website to verify it's genuine. Does yours pass this test?
LiPo batteries are considered dead @ 3v, 3.7v is nominal and full charge is 4.2v. A fully charged 18650 is best measured at a discharge rate of .5A .. Bringing voltage below 3V is risking damage to battery. The 18650 will recover when drawn at high rate. Try drawing the discharge at a slower rate to not shock the battery which none of the three in this video are designed for high rate of draw . This is why your results are flawed. if you want to test high rate batteries try batteries such as the Sony VTC4 or the LG HB6
Maybe I problem with using the discharge on these units mate. I did the same thing and the Amp draw was way off, but it still calculates the mah on the ampage you enter. I used a separate tester and although I set it to draw an amp, it was during about .6 and the max counter added up a lot faster than it did on my other tester reading the actual amps being drawn. I know it was a long time ago, but just something to note.
Is this a LiPo or LIon battery ?
Lion this guy doesn't know what he's doing all these batteries are labeled with capacity 25r s 2500mah 15r is 1500mah 20r is 2000mah
@@guitardedimbisol6087 thats a li ion but the charger cant liion and liion and lipo are very similar. The capacity drops so the capacity isnt that what is on the battery wrote.
Can i do a discharge test with other types of batteries like 18650 26650 IMR/ ICR/INR/LiMN with this device?
i am also looking for a device that can analyze the how much amp these cells can kick safely and resist .
Brother, how much voltage and how many amps of power can be given in it
wish I would have seen your video months ago. Have you had your i-max go rogue where it charges a li-ion cells up to 4.5-4.7volts? Great video, thank you.
Hi Rinoa,
Right now I'm also building a battery pack and I just want to say your videos have been very helpful. I have the same fake iMax B6 charger as you and I just have one quick question about it.
What is the difference between the different discharge modes, i.e. when you choose a different battery type. Is it only the range you can set for the end voltage and amp draw or does it do anything else?
Right now I'm in the process of checking the capacity of my batteries (78 in total) and am noticing what you mentioned in some other video as well, that when you choose 1 amp draw current for LiPo, it doesn't actually do that. Can I instead just use any other mode and choose the same values as I would have on the LiPo setting and it would work just as good? (... but with a consistent current draw)
I hope you see this message and find time to answer it.
Jesper
Like the background music, like watching a battery-thriller!
I appreciated the classy, non-distracting background music too. Too many videos have obnoxious music. Yes, I am old. ;)
Mr Super-Genius thanks for the videos, since you weren't quite 100% satisfied with this charger which one would you recommend for a little bit more dough for the same application? (ebike 48V battery pack)
Though it knackered a 18650 cell if you discharged below 3.2 volts . . .?
You can go all the way down to 2.5 but really you should cut off at 3v off for lithium iron
Hi, I have the same IMAX B6. Please tell me how can I check the capacity by charging/ discharging Lipo battery 1,5V (seller written capacity 4000mAh) in battery type D. And it have micro usb port for charging. As I understand there is small 3,7 V Lipo inside with converter to 1,5V. So should I charge/discharge for test through the micro usb port as normal 3,7 v Lipo?
Indeed, the ONLY discharge profile that lets you modify min (discharge-to) voltage is NiCD.
The default min discharge voltage for LiFe is way too low, at 2V. Needs to be more like 2.7.
So, to be able to safely discharge LiFePo4, you select NiCd and set the discharge voltage to 2.7.
You'd then use that profile (NiCD) when doing the discharge excersize. Don't forget to switch back to proper mode when doing charging.
Discharge power max is 5W, so you will have to adjust the discharge current to stay within the limit.
For example, discharging single LiFePo4 cell, at 3.2V, you max discharge current needs to be 1.5A or less. Otherwise, if you set it above that value, Imax will stop discharge after about 11 secs
hi rinoa can you advise how to charge a row of 18650 new cells s that dropped to 1.3v 5p when used in my ebike .others were over 3v .they are in a vruzend kit so can separate easy .this happened before a 5p row of Samsung new cells dropped to 2.0v .its a 52v 14s5p kit diy.
Hiya! How did you know you didn't buy a fake imax?...supposedly there's a bunch of em on the net. I tried searching but what does this do that a nitecore charger won't? what does it do that your ac/dc power supply doesn't?
because real/fake are pretty much the same thing. its not aporpriate to called it a "fake" charger when it works ok. it would be better to call it a "knock-off "
Geniune imax b6 has a sticker with a code in the back
MIKAEL'S LAB
oh wow, a sticker. that sure increases it's functionality.
the ones that aren t fake have a sticker at the back. from the things that i know the sticker has a product code to register it online
. but i am not 100% sure
MIKAEL'S LAB Yes there is, i have a genuine one and i checked on this website www.skyrc.com/antifake/indexen.php
And it showed up as genuine!!!
P.S If this comment needs approval due to the link pls allow this.
How many batteries can you C/D with this imax. Thanks for your video
Mr Genius,, I purchased 72 18650 batteries, and i was wondering if you could tell me a rough or gestimated AH for my battery.. it will be 6x12 at 36vdc..the mah are unkown so i just would like a educated guess.. I really been watching and admiring your
Thomas Henkel videos
Thomas Henkel if the mah are unknown then how would i know? the only way is to test each cell's capacity with a discharger.
Rinoa Super-Genius can you give and average aprox???
Thomas Henkel
no
Lel 0_0
+Rinoa Super-Genius I'm testing some old and probably shitty 18650 Li-Ion batteries and trying to meassure their capacity.
I'm discharging them using the imax b6 with the Li-Po program at 1A down to 3.0V. The voltage drops pretty fast down to 3V and is kept there. soon after the discharge current starts dropping as well.
I this normal behavior? I was expecting the discharge current to stay at a constant 1A and the program to end once 3V is reached?
These chargers are a piece of shit for discharging i have to set mine to 2.8v on nimh to get it to actually discharge to 3.0v.
Where did you get that nice charger..would love to have one...what..is the input voltage for the charger?...nice video..by the way. I seen one from china for $19.00 and $3.50 shipping, but would rather get it local, which is Long Island NY...
got it from ebay for 30$. its input voltage is 10-18v. theres also an imax B6AC model that has a built in 115v adapter. havent tested that yet though.
So you can use either power supply...I have a 12 volt power supply..
***** i alreay stated that, its the B6AC. thank you Mr Obvious!
*****
you don't notice mine was also?
When using NiCd battery to discharge on cycles. Discharge charge 2. After first step, discharge it gives a voltage error and the discharge charge cycle stops. Can you explain why and am I doing something wrong?
Good video. Got a question for you. Will this charge a lithium 18650 15v 20ah pack ? I bought 2 of the imax b6 chargers and was hoping it would be able to charge them.
You can only charge separate groups with it not the whole pack.
Does it sit around 4.2v and keep charging for a while? Also, if the cell gets pretty warm at a 4.0v charge, then how long should I keep it on the charger?
Rinoa you are the Man to ask, Do you know of a Balance discharger with pre set volts per cell like you are doing here with
single cell for 18650 down to about 2.6 v or whatever for my 6s1p packs ? cheers Brett
+kermets so you want to take each cell down to a specific voltage? ya mean like bottom ballancing? im not a fan of bottom ballancing myself, and i dont know any that are precise when they go down that far.
Ok thanks for the reply, My Accucell 6 similar as imax B6 only goes down to 3v per cell and that maybe leaves 20 % capacity untested, my way if it was possible you could batch discharge/charge in packs of 6 or whatever you set the battery holders up for with balance plug, would save doing this per cell which is taking forever to recover/test 100 or so cells etc, cheers Brett
리튬이온인데 왜 리튬폴리머로 셋팅하고 방전하나요?
I have a 60v SLA battery in my bike and I want to add 60v lithium pack to it as a backup can I wire both the negiteves from both battery's to the Ebike. And have only 1 positive from 1 battery pack at a time connected to the bike. Or will doing this wreck the lithium set. I don't want to hook both up at the same time I just want 1 set to use until it dies and flip a breaker off to disconnect the SLA positive terminal. And flip on the lithium set positive breaker Let me know if this is safe as I don't want to have it break. Thanks
al theway If you can't tell that by yourself, then its not safe.
did you use magnets to connect your cables to the battery? that's pretty cool
yeah, they are a bit resistive but they work really well for low current
Were you using magnets for battery tabs? If so you have solved my problem!
sure did! i got a pack of like 100 of those neodymium magnets. my dad's funeral printing company bought them for an urn box thing that never sold. so i took the magnets home.
it is such a pain in the butt to connect batteries together without soldering or magnets.
Rinoa Super-Genius I have the same charger as well, never explored the other settings. I have just go hold of some stupidly high capacity cells from China which i might test now!
oh nice! i ordered some of those UltraFire cells i'm always talking shit about. i've seen some people test them and they come back as like 400mah instead of 3ah. so i finally bought a handful and will test them when they come in. i seriously hope i'm wrong and that they really are new and 3ah per cell.
What’s the maximum discharge current?
Nice video. Got a question for anyone who can bothered answering. I have bought a 6800 mAh ni-mh 7.2v 6 cell battery pack. I have used it once with an r/c car. It didn't seem to get as long as expected out of once use, its meant to last for 30 - 40mins only lasted about 10 mins. I was thinking... will discharging the battery completely then charging it make the battery perform better? If so, should i discharge every time before charging. Also, I have zero knowledge about battery discharging what do i set the Amp and voltage settings to for safe discharge on an imax dual charger? Thanks
well since your question was asked 7 yrs ago this wont help you but for anyone else who might wonder if they should completely discharge a lipo battery before charging...NO, absolutely not. Doing so will either kill it on the spot or greatly damage it and ruin its capacity. I have found that most causes of premature failure of lipo batts is from over discharging them. I would recommend not to take it down below 3.2 volts per cell. That's how you get the most charges and best performance from lipo batteries. There really isn't much benefit from over extending the useful charge from a lipo, the performance suffers substantially below 3.2 volts anyway so where is the enjoyment from under performing while ruining your equipment?
Olá boa tarde vc sabe informar como fazer para fazer o reset do IMAX B6? Aguardo parabéns pelo vídeo.
I need some help, I have some cells which getting pretty hot during the charge (icr18650 samsung 20f 2000 mAh, 12 pcs, charger Imax B6 same as yours)
I m discharging them at 1A then charging @ 1A at 3.7 but when it stores approx. 500 mAh its getting hot like 45 degrees and stopping charge since I set temp. protection to 45 C. no other batteries behaving that, so does these cells need special handling or all 12 pcs of them bad ?
i dont understand what you mean by 20f nor by 12 pcs charger.
the cells should never get hot. if they do that may mean they are bad.
sorry,
for the samsung 18650 cells, 20F indicates the cells mAh capacity like 20F is 2000 mAh and 22F is 2200 mAh,
see ; i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/349/501/599/599501349_221.jpg
and I have 12 pieces of them.
I guess I will have to toss em to recycling box. too bad they could have been a good pack, thanks anyway !
Bilal Öz
well i wouldnt say throw them away, even if they are crusty you can use them as a crappy battery pack for backup or something unimportant.
so when you stop charging them what voltage are they at and do they slowly go down?
it may just be that they are very old and have only like 500mah and so puting 1a into 500mah heats it up a lot.
how do you know they have 2ah? did they give 2ah in a discharge test you did? also where did you get them? i hope you got them from an old laptop battery instead of getting ripped off by ebay listings for individual cells.
Rinoa Super-Genius actually I got them from a friend of mine. he working on an e-store, a few days ago I visited him and asked if he have some unused or scrap laptop batteries so he gave me two packs of old batteries free of charge which they used for lifting the laptops on the window shopping lol. I returned to my workshop happily, ripped them apart :12 flawless samsung ICR 18650 20F cells ! . I googled this code and found they got capacity of 2000 mAh ! they were all about 2.8 ~3.2 volts, much happier now.
since I don't have much experience on testing the capacity I decided to discharge each of them first. all of their discharge capacities were about 200~300 mAh and that bothered me in the first place.
then I put them on charge and realised they r getting real hot, and voltage of cell doesn't go down when charging stop. voltage stops where it was.
tomorrow I will charge them on 500 mAh and post the results here. it don't matter for me to lose them, at least I can use them for the flashlight
Rinoa Super-Genius
by the way I managed to revive 6 dead cells watching your instructions, now they can draw 2200 mAh smoothly.
thanks for valuable information
keep up the good work !
I just got an Imax B6. Can you test capacity of a battery pack 6P1S and find out the capacity of each cell with the Imax?
+Stephen Garner sorry I meant 6S1P
+Stephen Garner 6s1p is the same as 6s. 6s means 6 batteries in series, 1p means one parralel. is is like saying 6x1 or 6. same thing. As for how to test the batteries, there should be a balancing plug that will give you access to each battery in the pack. By using a voltmeter you should be able to figure out which wires are for which battery and test the cells individually with pairs of wires.
I have some type of 18650 battery 4000mAh, 4200mAh & 4800mAh Li-Ion. How do I calculate how many Amps are necessary for each different 18650 mAh battery for charging using the Imax B6?
Amps only dictate charge time, its not like they wouldn't charge fully with too small of amps.
Rinoa Super-Genius If I charge in the amount of 1.0 A to 18650 4000mAh battery, is it appropriate for li-ion battery?
Additional information:
I used to charge the battery of 2200mAh 55c li-po & charging 2.0 A for RC Helicopter. But I am not used to charge the battery type li-ion & how to Amp per mAh battery as appropriate. I need your expertise & experience. Thank you.
IZZAT FIKRI SALLEH
i would say for every 1AH charge 500ma.
li-ions should not be discharged lower than 2.6v they can explode, and a 1A discharge rate is quite high. do be careful
i didn't discharge them bellow 2.6v. i discharged them to about 3.3v to 3.8v as you see in the video.
also in my first battery pack i pulled like 2-4 amps per cell.
but don't worry i'm being as safe as i see fit :D
with what i understand about how a lithium cell works is that the voltage should never drop under 2.6v even if it bounces back to 3.8v because when it is at a low voltage the metal ions have either depleted in regions on the plates or filled up in regions on the opposite plate so even an average distribution afterwards means it will have 3.8v you have regions of either overdepletion or overaccumulation during that low voltage time. leading to the formation of the things that cause cells to go bad or explode. which can explain why a heavily used cell could more likely fail or have its life reduced faster than a lightly used cell.
what would you do for check 1000 cells
Hi ! Is that any way to know what is the c on the 18650 , mean is that any c rate on this type of battery ? tks
+Jimngu Gk lookup the datasheet
Hooked up 13 cells charged around 4.1 in series to this charger and it popped my 1000uf 35v capacitor. I thought these could handle that? Guess not. Will it handle 12 in a series? B6 will charge a 48v pack correct?
lol you connected 54v to a 24v charger? no wonder it popped xD
@@RinoaLit's been a decade but who cares. Watehel is he talking about lmao 🤣
i have the same charger and my chg/disch readings are similar.all my elcrappo chinese cell read 4.1 vdc when charged. i would worry about drawing an unprotected cell below 3 volts as it may not recover.
even after depleting in my radio,my new eneloop nimh cells dont show their rated 850mah on the disply after charging.
.
hi can u tell me the rates for discharging a4s? tq
Hey Ya. Rinoa Super-Genius You make a mistake by discharging li ion less than 3V.
Firstly its the best way to destroy Your cells
Secondly think about practical usage. If You put charged 18650 battery for example 13S you get 48V and as you do discharge them to 2V You will receive 26V (13 x 2V) summary. Have You ever thought that 48V BLDC controller cut off limit is standard 42V. So as you can see even a pro bldc controllers treat properly li-ion cells discharging them only to 3.2V
So if discharging li-ion to less than 3V is:
-dangerous
-destructive for the cell
-impractical because of worst effect of working electrical devices on the half of voltage (slower / non starting)
Use li ion dischare function
Completely incorrect. Have you ever looked at the datasheet of a LG Choco 18650 battery? Or a Samsung 25R battery? They both say min voltage is 2.5v. The specified capacity is of course a full charge to 4.2v and then discharge with constant current down to 2.5v. Usually with current 0.2 times of the specified capacity. Thus, if the battery states 2500mAh, you should discharge with 0.5A to get the correct end result. He is testing the capacity of the battery. Not USING the battery, so the practical usage is irrelevant here. He simply want to check the exact capacity, which would be discharging until it reaches 2.5v. Having that said, I am pretty confident that he is using a chinese clone of the IMAX B6. Those are not calibrated correctly at the factory and will give you wong current and voltage readings in the first place.
how to calculate lithium ion battery real capacity by imax B6 ?
your imax doesnt show the right voltage...its not the resistance from the wire...you just have to calibrate it
Apostolis T. how
@@aliensanonymous5063 plug out cable, press and hold dec and start, plug cable in, wait for it to boot, you will enter menu and then you can add or remove voltage, so it reads it well, measure battery with multimeter and when you are done, simply press start.
u should discharge at lower than 1A to reach the full capacity of the cell with less drop
1a is a standart discharge. In most apllications its even higher...
@@BastelPichi yeah but the nominal capacity might be tested with less load, to get bigger numbers
sir does the imax measure internal resistance of an 18650 if not what charger or gadget would recommend.
+Absolom Madhaka yes it does the authentic one atleast
You are A charge a litio un Ni Cd mode?
Hey Rinoa .Very informative videos you have..Anyhow just wondering if you know the exact size in mm of the dc power plug coming into the imax b6 mini. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Can i charge a 18650 battery with imax b6 ?? Do i use lipo mode? N charge at how many amp?
+Eugene Ng no you use Lilo (lithium ion) mode
+Eugene Ng an a safe rate for a some what used or new battery is 1 amp then do a discharge when full to see if it has higher capacity for higher amps when charging
Hey, what do you truely think of the imaxb6 balance charger? I see some on ebay for 23 bucks and have been thinking.... are they worth it, or is there something better.
i think its definatly worth it. i was expecting mine to last like 4 months but its been a full year and mine is still working. i have noticed it overheats at lower amps now, but oh well.
it used to be if i charged my 24v pack with more than 4.5 amps the LCD would turn purple and it would start smelling of solder, now it gets that way at anything over 1 amp for 24v. i think i ran it too hard and melted the solder away from some components. but still its held up fine. and i think my next one will last much longer since i now know when it gets too hot.
you way want to get the Imax B6AC instead of the B6. i'm going to look into that. but if you get the B6 you can run it off a 12v computer power supply easilly.
What makes the b6ac better?
Raymond Malenki
it has an ac power supply in it already, you dont have to worry about feeding the imax b6 with 11-18 volts at up to 15 amps.
I just looked at it, that is a nice feature. Thx for the recommendation.
Rinoa Super-Genius So I took your advice and picked up the imax b6ac.... but I cant seem to get it to work. I am probably doing something wrong, I tried to charge some romba battery packs I had laying around and all it would do is say connection break. I'm lost. I saw in some of your other videos you tricked it to charge one with adding a diff battery so I did the same. It would charge my nimh bat, I remove the good one and let the romba nimh bat to charge, then back to connection break. Any ideas?
But how do you charge 18650 with this charger? There's no 4.2V setting :(
yes there is, charge it 3.7v 1 series.
Rinoa Super-Genius Thanks! :) Sorry, just to clarify what is 1 series? You mean 1S? :) So if I charge it at 3.7V it will actually go to 4.2V? Cause my battery is rated at 4.2 V fully charged...
bratan007
yes 3.7v battery charge to 4.2v. its an odd naming scheme but oh well. and yes 1s means 1 series.
Rinoa Super-Genius Oh I see now! It's actually trying to charge it up to 4.1V but that's close enough :)
bratan007
4.1v will give you 2x as many charge discharge cycles. i try to charge mine to 4.0 to 4.1 so i get 2-4x as long lifespan. just a few less miles on each charge.
Hey, im searching a way to discharge lots of cells so i can record each of the cells capacity. I have hundreds to do and imax is soooo slow. Making a 48v battery to cycle 100 miles, manchester to conwyn. Uk. Lkve your channel btw.
your charge to 4.1V and discharge to 3.0V this should be a difference of 1.1V, so if you have a 2200mA/h 18650 this mean you are using only 2.42WH of the total capacity of 9.24WH, I'm right or I'm missing something
your missing a lot.
Ya, you are discharging lithium ion with with lipo settings. you can set it to li-ion in the user program.
lipo and lithium ion are the exact same thing, there is no electrical difference, just fyi.
Rinoa Super-Genius In the charger you are using, the ions and polymers have deferent charging voltages.
Interesting Video once again!
What's going to be up next? :)
i'm finishing a video on epsom salt in batteries. the results are proving to be differant than i'd hoped.
btw thanks ;D
Rinoa Super-Genius
different then you hoped? Hmm, I hope it still works, because it sounded like a pretty good Idea to me so far^^
well there are a lot of myths regarding epsom salt inside a battery like
1: desulfation
2: increased AH/capacity
3: increased voltage
4: increased amps it can provide
and only the last 2 are correct it seems. my battery's capacity didn't raise or desulfate but it does stay at a higher voltage and can provide more amps. i mean when i pull power from it the voltage dips a lot less. but i am going to do this experiment a few times and make a few more videos on it.
Rinoa Super-Genius
Great! With your tests one can get a clearer picture on the method, can't wait for it, because I still have an old battery in the garage, so, let's see :)
Thank's for the detailed answer!
PS: I'll get you the laptop battery model soon, I just can't find it right now^^ :D
so...imax have quit making 3d movies and now they make balance chargers
haha well if they did make this then they shoulda stayed with the movies.
@@RinoaL that says it all ahah
That's a great tip!! using Nickel to discharge LiPo. Thanks!!
Brian Su though everything I've read says it's dangerous or death to the cell to discharge them past 2.5v. The power/voltage curves fall off a cliff past 3v so I wonder what extra % mAh the test showed by discharging to 2v?
Mytheroo Ahh I'm not sure. I think it's not advisable but depends largely on the quality of the cells. I've had forum members discharge their LiPos to very low voltages but they still work, or so they say...
Sorry can I use this type of battery for airsoft aeg gun ?tks
+Jimngu Gk Yes, but its not recomended.
i think i have a fake imax b6, the discharge feature does not work, it just goes on for 2 hours on all cells.
+OnlineBackupServices I have the fake one and have ordered a real one after noticing. I got a refund on the fake one and I have issues with mine too. You'll need to disable the 2 hour limiter on the fake imax for it to fully discharge the battery but even then the charger is unable to read the correct voltage.
Your Imax is set to NiCd?
yup, gives more control
Is this a genuine b6 or a Chinese version?
they are both made in china, there isnt much differance.
thats good to know lol. keep up the good work on your videos, really enjoying the ones about the 18650s
I just recently purchased a genuine b6ac v2....... Unless the earlier version was riddled with errors and faults I think you have a fake. The only thing I have noticed is the lipo setting works better than the li ion setting due to not being able to change the 3.6v up to 3.7v. Annoying but shit happens
It's a Li-ion battery. Why use Li-po and Nicad discharge. Use the correct mode and it'll actually work.
because lipo and li+ are the same exact thing, except on this charger there is a differance of 0.1v. and the lower you charge your lithium cells the longer they last.
there is no "correct" mode. just differant modes that attain differant results.
Rinoa Super-Genius thanks.
Discharge at 300 milliamps and you can get the test results in one go instead of retesting the same battery till you get all the amp hour readings you need
Does any one know how to discharge lots if cells in one go?
+Richard lawrence I've been looking for an answer to your question for a couple of years but haven't found the answer. An arduino and multiplexer could measure a multi-cell discharge but I was not smart enough in electronics to trust the results of the prototype I tried to build. Good luck.
+Richard lawrence You would need to build a custom circuit that would discharge each cell individually and monitor each cells voltage as it discharges. This could be done with a constant current load circuit connected to an arduino or similar micro controller. How many cells are you looking to discharge at one time?
Thats why you should discharge the Battery with lower loads
Thanks man awesum video !! Really helped me to test my 18650s
I never take them below 3v, below 3v they get weird, and easily damaged. i usually charge to 4.15, best cheap I have currently found is the turnigy 4s5ah hardcases. split to make into whatever. but under 3v, I'd never do it...
Well I,m not taking them bellow 3v for sitting voltage. Just for under load. They jump back up right after the load test.
But when I use them I recharge them once they get to like 3.8-3.9v.
Yeah theres lots of tech info and golden rules but a lot of them don't transfer to the real world too well. It's like the two religions of either top balance often or bottom balance once till needed again. I'm currently doing half a pack one way and half the other till end of December to see what happens.
What is the right way to arrange the 18650 batteries after a discharge test. here is the mah of the batteries electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/232698/diy-pack-amp-difference
Thanks Super geek you legend! ;)
Your on NiCd .. instade to be on Li1S
nicd is a better setting
Keep doing bro
thanks for sharing
Nice video and info. The voltage of the cells is dropping so quick under load and going up so fast is because of the internal resistance of the battery. You just cannot discharge a high IR battery with more than a few hundred mAmps. Also the voltage is shooting up when charging because of 2 reasons: 1: The connections have to be as good as posible; 2: You need to charge them with a low charging current so the voltage won't overshoot because of the high IR of the battery. Hope this helps :)
yeah I know but thanks. btw I find internal resistance a very bad name, it would be better to call it the "reaction speed".
Rinoa Super-Genius Well I didn't invent the terms. Internal resistance makes most sense for me. You can call it Impedance when measuring AC ohms.
ciprianwiner
well it makes sense if you think of it as a solid state electrical device but its not. you gotta remember its a chemical reaction taking place inside it.
Rinoa Super-Genius Of course there is a chemical reaction. There are 2 things related: 1: Electric resistance and 2: Ionic resistance. The electric resistance is instant and the Ionic resistance takes a bit of time to kick in. That's why the battery voltage won't jump right up.
this is awkward I purchased Imax B6 today and did not read any instruction from manual, I guess I learned all from this video and dont need manual anymore haha
put the output of that charger on a slow scope and you will see exactly how shitty those chargers are..... up to 100mA fluctuation in the output.
The charger you're using is a knockoff. they work fine though.
discharging batteries with low mah at 1A is not smart, and most likely the reason your discharge wasn't working right.
I watch your channel daily. Lol creepy
its only creepy if you think it is. i make videos to be watched. and thanks for watching.
only pulling 1 amp on the test. So they are dead
yeah. but hey some capacity is still useful.
maybe save all the super dead cells and put them together into one big battery. you could use that for an off-grid experiment or something.
or do what i'm doing put them all together to make a battery to take camping. even used lithium cells would beat lead acid :D
Batteries are merely the power source for something. The question is what is that something going to be? The world's most powerful cattle prod? Another Altair IV disaster? A device used by Batman and Robin's latest foe - Professor Purple? The suspense is unbearable.
the cells are for, oh ya know, just the usual death ray prototype. :P
That is a fake IMAX b6 check on the back for a hologram sticker if it’s there it’s real
The Imax B6 which you are using in this video is a fake one. That is why you were getting weird readings....just so you know.
+EXALLIEVI DI DON BOSCO, NCR GROUP, PH no its not fake, it does work, its just a knock-off most likely made at the same factory on a third shift.
if it was truly "fake" itd be hollow ir whatever
You shouldn't be discharging an 18650 battery lower than 3v and the reason it's not going back up to the start voltage is because your damaging the battery by doing so. Stop giving really bad advice never select the wrong battery type for charging or discharge mah testing. As that's how you damage and can even blow up the battery.
he has a fake imax b6
Rinoa Super-Genius [Your giving out Bad and unsafe Information!]
18650 batteries ARE NOT LiPo Batteries, they are Li-ion [Lithium Ion]
Never mix or charge or discharge different chemisty batteries than what you have set in settings.
You are asking for trouble if not very hot and maybe a fire or exploding batteries.
You are perfect canidate for a Protection Bag or metal container to charge and store your batteries in so if you have a fire or explosion you won't burn your house down.
Gary Bart
Application Engineer
lithium-Ion and Lithium-Polymar are the exact same thing, just differant production methods.
hope that helps.
btw cells only get hot when they short out, and they will almost never short out if you keep their voltages right.
Rinoa Super-Genius I'm not sure if this is an accurate statement. The discharge rate of li-ion cells is usually stated to be 1C-3C (at most), and it is even difficult to find the actual figure for any brand I've ever bothered to look up so far. I consider their discharge rate to be always 1C (the mAh capacity rate x1).
As for lipo batteries, they are usually rated 10C-30C (and beyond). So, while the comment regarding that their CHEMISTRY is the exact same could be true (and even that I don't know), the different production methods DO MATTER quite a lot in the end result. That I know for a fact. If you try to discharge a li-ion at 5A, you'll probably make the PCB overdischarge protection kick in, in the best scenario, or just downright ruin the cell(s). On the other hand, most lipo(s) can provide 5A while whistling along, AFAIK.
The Li-Po are set to 4.2V max charge, and has a set discharge cut-off voltage of 3.0V.
Li-Ion are only 4.1v max charge, and have a deeper discharge cut-off at 2.5v, meaning they perform better at lower voltages.
These are Li-Ion batteries, so the tests will be inaccurate with the wrong settings.
Also, setting the discharge at a lower rate with used batteries, will give you a more accurate figure at the end, since they tend to drop voltage alot faster under higher discharge, even though they aren't completely drained.
Else a good video :)
Wuptidoo
lithium ion and lithium polymer are the same chemistry just differant packages.
Rinoa Super-Genius Very interesting video thanks.
I think you're correct.
"Lithium polymer" in everyday use just means lithium ion battery in a soft pouch.
"The denomination "lithium polymer" has caused confusion among battery users. It may be interpreted in two ways. Originally, "lithium polymer" stood for a developing technology using a polymer electrolyte instead of the more common liquid electrolyte. The result is a "plastic" cell, which theoretically could be thin, flexible, and manufactured in different shapes, without risk of electrolyte leakage. This technology has not been fully developed and commercialized, and research is ongoing.
The second meaning appeared when some manufacturers started applying the "polymer" denomination to lithium-ion cells in pouch format. This is the most extended use nowadays, where "polymer" went from indicating a "polymer electrolyte" to mean a "polymer casing", that is, the soft, external pouch."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery
Someone with your knowledge of batteries.... should not be discharging/testing them!!!
i have a really good understanding of batteries actually, good enough to get a job at Apple working on them. lol
What are you doing? Everything you show and talk in this video is WRONG!
but it works so its right
Why disturbing stupid music?
why stupid comment?
@@RinoaL If you think it's not stupid you have to get some help!
@@Allroundfixer your the idiot getting annoyed with an ancient video that nobody remembers.
@@RinoaL lol if you think the video is that worthless you should probably just remove it to spare people the time wasted? To your credit, I think the information is pretty useful and I enjoyed the video. Must be all those weird hormones skewing with your rational sense again
Hey, im searching a way to discharge lots of cells so i can record each of the cells capacity. I have hundreds to do and imax is soooo slow. Making a 48v battery to cycle 100 miles, manchester to conwyn. Uk. Lkve your channel btw.
are the cells origenally dead? i had a lot of random used cells that where at like 3.3v so i charged them all to 3.6v then used the imax b6 to charge them to 4.2v and it counted up how many AH it too to charge them. i know thats not exact but saves a lot of time.
Ebay used/faulty batts :-) so need to sort them in categories of mah. It takes hours to do each batt. :-(
When you get the volts up to 3.6v do you slow charge? Cos ive been charging them to full with an intelli charger.
Richard Banner
you only need to test each parallel pack, not the individual cells. if the laptop batteries came with the cells connected in 4 then you just test each pack of 4 and devide by number of cells.