FCC Investigators Ideas On Better Ham Radio Self-Policing Practices
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- This is not my advice, I'm relaying what has worked for hams in the past. If you do not want to put these ideas into practice, don't. Feel free to send a letter, or email. In a chance encounter I was lucky to meet someone from the FCC and we got to talking about radio jammers, and those that create interference on the bands.
If you have worked to self police the issue and it still remains, please reach out to the FCC consumercompla...
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I appreciate the tremendous tone change in the comments and I'm glad I took the time to clarify some of the points.
I really think it’s a bad idea to avocate or encourage people to go up and knock on a persons door, threatening to report them. In this day and age it’s just not safe. You don’t know if your dealing with someone with a mental health issue, felon, etc.
I like the idea of collecting the data and then sending it to the fcc. , Every thing mentioned, short of making contact with a person in person.
The female descalation technique is something the Feds have taught but these days, people don’t respect women like they once did so I wouldn’t bank on that. These techniques only work with reasonable people. If someone felt compelled to make contact in person. Contact local police, ask for a civil standby and make contact that way. I’m more supportive of just sending letters. Letters that escalate in their message and then just send to fcc. Just my two cents.
All of this can backfire really bad. At the end of the day, the repeater owner is responsible for what's transmitted on a repeater. If it's not yours, it's not your problem. Don't make it your problem. I don't know if it's still the case, but you could anonymously report to the FCC. If you get on 7200 and start telling a group of bad actors they are breaking the law, they can and will brigade style report you to the FCC with fake accusations and get you a letter sent in the mail. It's happened before. Just ignore them, don't respond, stay in your lane. Let the repeater owners be the aggressor. Damn sure don't go knocking on doors, male, female, whatever is a bad, bad idea. Besides, last time I checked a kraken does diddly squat on HF....
@@Theworldaroundus952 That all you can think of when confronting a problem is threats, is part of the problem. How about knocking on their door and just asking them what's up? Finding out if they are doing what they are doing because of a grievance (real or imagined) and trying to address that. Seeing why they seem to have an issue with the local community. There is no need to threaten anyone or even talk about reporting them. If you approach them trying to understand and they are just batshit crazy, you don't even need to tell them you are going to report them, just report them. But talking to them like they are people, and being a reasonable and tolerant community is just the right way to be in all cases.
That guy who commented about knocking on his door in a "stand your ground" state is an embarrassment to the 2A community. Stand your ground does NOT mean you can just shoot someone for simply knocking on your door! I am all for Stand your ground laws, but it is not a get out of jail free card for stupidity.
Some people really need to learn the difference between freedom and anarchy.
Agreed 100000%
The type of person that is jamming local repeaters is the type of person causing anarchy. I agree that type of person shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm but that seems to be a main problem with who can and can't own a firearm. Is something like this a reason to deny someone a permit to own a firearm... Maybe
Anarchy is a side of freedom.
It pretty much does. Just make sure you shout about being scared for your life. Remember George Zimmerman? Guy chased someone down and started the incident in a stand your ground state and got away with it. Can you imagine what would happen if you knocked on his door? It wouldn't have even made the national news.
I hate idiots like that
Calling out a precise location in real-time has worked very well for me. "I've got the QRM narrowed down to 123 Boredom Lane" is all the more I've ever found it necessary to do. More often than not its been someone on an HT parked somewhere vs in their home but "...Green Toyota Tacoma in Fred Meyer parking lot, plate number xxxxxxx" works just the same.
Yeah, that's pretty awesome. I'd likely go that route first.
Works every time. Jammers are usually cowards who will give up as soon as their identity is revealed.
Newsflash! There are idiots with access to the Internet and will leave comments in line with said idiocy.
You are a good dude Josh and a better man than I for taking the time to address their "issues". 👍
Good on Josh for taking the high road. I would have told the nay sayers to kick rocks
As someone who has knocked on doors for various reasons I recommend knock and step away for safety reasons (Firearms, or aggressive dogs, especially aggressive dogs). As for someone with decades of experience in customer service, people tend to stop bad behavior when they learn they are not exactly anonymous. They tend to look for a way out, and if you hand them an exit strategy they will use it, or a variation of it, 9 times out of ten.
I have found that having ham license plates or callsign on a sticker has caused me to be more cautious of a driver - because I'm less anonymous. So I agree, removing the anonymity (in one of dozens of ways) is likely enough for many to cease.
Anonymity is one of the main problems with the world today. You can see that in any comment section you visit.
Hit the nail on the head. Anonymity is what makes people unreasonable confident and cocky.
Stepping back off the doorstep was even mentioned in the earlier video.
@@joelvarney5091 Well said. Keep wearing your mask.
Great follow up, I agreed with the first one and of course understand WHY you had to make a follow up. Some people wait there entire life to use their Pew Pew until the day they actually have to use it and don't understand how it will change their life forever. Your a huge part of me getting my license and you videos keep me excited about the hobby. From a 58yr old guy from FL.
We had someone using their influence as a commercial radio service provider to use remote antenna sites and internet linking to interfere with a repeater in my area. Became such a problem, but they were caught. Unfortunately no action was taken by the FCC, and they didnt lose their job with the organization they work for.
Frequency accountability was one of the reasons I started streaming the 2-meter call frequency to TH-cam in the South LA/North OC area. Having documented, publicly-available data of the interference and jamming is a keystone for effective policing of our amateur bands. While I don't agree with some of the technique presented as being legally-acceptable methodologies for stopping a jammer, I appreciate your effort to take on this difficult subject.
Didn’t see the original video but seeing this.
I’d say be careful with confronting people face to face. There are unhinged people out there. Make sure other people know where you are, and be mentally ready to walk away. If the individual gets unhinged, WALK AWAY. Don’t be the one with an ego in that situation.
Of course. It’s kind of sad we even have to tell people this though.
Some of the best advice for dealing with willful interference, is to never acknowledge it.
Carry on with your conversation, even if you have to make up what you think the other guy said.
As soon as you acknowledge them, they got what they wanted.
Its the same advice adults tell their kids all the time.
My 6 year old is constantly getting under the 11 year old's skin (Daddy, he keeps copying me)
Ignore him and it stops being fun. Alas the 6 year old has the 11 year old well trained very well to give him entertainment whenever he wishes it.
Very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to re-present this. On the line of sight side, I think big clubs should start running a new kind of T hunt, "Release the Kraken." Good skill building and tech fun, which would have useful applications with poor sad jammers. Also, after repeater nets running simplex nets is a good skill for this problem and for fun and learning. My favorite handheld has a listen on input type function I am now interested in trying and practicing with. Maybe I can teach others. All good fun and learning and has practical applications. Cheers from KC6ARY
4:40 You're legendary for choosing this frame
I had to do it.
Josh, thank you for this. It's amazing how many people will take the subject of an informative video instead as if it were a directive. Even without the editorial commentary you stated absolutely nothing wrong, you simply shared perspective on some TTPs to address issues. ('take this info, assess the situation, inform yourself about the subject of prospective engagements and make an informed and cautious decision').
I watch a LOT of your videos and while I missed the original video you were referring to, I very much appreciate you not only taking the time to clarify your comments, but you taking a hard line and setting boundaries to those who were behaving inappropriately.
So, for all that think the FCC should do the job and ultimately just handle enforcement, that up-ends the entire amateur radio community model. If that's what you think is needed, lobby for policy-based funding, then don't complain when testing is again done by the FCC (in dimly lit government offices), band plans are no longer by agreement, but by FCC mandate, our licenses and equipment need to be regulated and certified on a regular basis, and - like other areas in our lives - government will overreach into a process that was better to begin with. Personally, I believe the FCC representative would have been better focused on addressing this towards the ARRL to work towards increasing regional coverage for volunteer monitoring and through that ARRL would educate clubs how they could participate. Note the last report on VMs was in Sept 2023 (the last activity reported at ARRL) and there were seven (7) issues reported: SEVEN. Either this whole discussion is really a non-issue or we are far from the necessary coverage. Just telling license holders to self-police is going to result in chaos.
Fantastic comment. I hope many read it and consider your words!
Thanks!
I thought that the original video was great, and I didn't understand the controversy. I do appreciate the addition of context though, and I feel that you did a great job with the way you brought in that additional context.
Thanks for all you do!
The door knock is a bad idea. I'm shocked you got that from the FCC, even in the context of "this has worked in the past". When I was a government investigator, door knocks were always my last resort and I wouldn't have made that tacit suggestion in the form of a history lesson to anyone under any circumstances. The lawyers often reminded the investigators that dispensing advise, tacit or otherwise, was a major no no because nothing good can come of it. An anonymous, non-threatening, friendliest letter in the history of letters to "Occupant, 123 Xyz St, ..." is a much better idea and it accomplishes the same thing without endangering yourself. It also checks the FCC box that hams tried to police themselves. In lieu of a letter, stating the facts on the air might also work. Be mindful that all you have is circumstantial evidence from the triangulation. For all you know, someone could be parking near the house and engaging in the unlawful conduct, not only to make life suck for us hams but also to screw with the homeowner, so don't assume one of the home occupants is necessarily responsible.
I'm a UK full License holder.I think,regarding the re-transmitting of a net onto another frequency ,(ie,from 20 mhz to 7 mhz) over here in blighty would fall at the first hurdle.I think that would be considered by OFFCOM as broadcasting and that's not allowed over here.Secondly,we don't pay a license fee at all over here, but if it would help clean the bands up and give us more protection,(not only from the lunatics,but other infractions to),I would gladly pay £100 a year or more for my ticket.I don't think i would go rolling up to someones door in the US as you say anything could happen,and is best left to the authorities.Great video's Josh really enjoy them,and keep them coming . 🙂🙂
For what it's worth I felt you were pretty clear and feel I understood the message and reasoning behind it the first time
And thanks for commenting on the people that like to wave their weapons around willy nilly like children and can't handle a neighbor knocking on their door without resorting to violence
They'll ruin it for the rest of us when they keep being used as examples of why people shouldn't be able to do X or Y
I appreciate that.
Years ago, after finding a 'worst case' CBer, a drunken obscenity screamer with what sounded like a kW amp and a junk 60 foot backyard tower with a pair of 4 or 5 element beams on it, one of my friends asked over the air on CB channel 19 from a couple blocks away for the CBer to tone it down a little. (The guy was even splattering all over 10 meters with his junk linear, which was what brought him to our attention.) As polite as my buddy was, this guy just got abusive. So a few days later another one of our group of young hams, (we were all in our early 20's,) got on the air less than a block away from the clown's place and told him to stop with the abuse on the air, pointing out that we clearly knew where he lived, and naming the street he lived on. He then went ballistic on the air, only getting worse and worse. So about a week latter we borrowed an old F-500 farm truck, got a grappling hook and a long, heavy tow strap, and at 3:30 AM we backed up to his fence, threw the grappling hook over the fence and hooked the guy's tower, put the F-500 in granny gear, and pulled the tower down and partway through the chain-link fence, making quite a mess of everything, tower, antennas, fence and all. Then we quickly popped off the grappling hook and drove away with our lights off. We were a pretty rough crew back then. The whole thing could have gone horribly wrong, but it didn't. It took us well under a minute, maybe under 30 seconds, start to finish. Mission accomplished. These days I'd probably do something much more technical. Knowledge is power. It would be fun.
That sir, is a wild story!
PS: I too, while I'm also a 2A supporter, thought the comments about putting holes in people, etc., as well as the more personal statements were not appropriate, borderline nutty, and certainly didn't add to the topic in any way. If we react like that with threats and such, we become no better than the jammers we're trying to purge from our ranks. JMHO, AI5QA
Comments like that are far from "borderline".
This is exactly why I've become a huge fan of your content Josh. Great information. Really glad you called out the jerks. Keep up the great work.
I appreciate that!
@@HamRadioCrashCourse Your youtube videos got me started on this adventure about a month ago. I've since passed both Technician and General (as of last night). Now to figure out my first radio, Baofeng BF-F8HP. Thanks for all you do.
Much respect to Josh for constantly putting out lots of great content and laying down the facts in this video. Solid logic and I agree😀
I appreciate that!
My issue with it is not the general advice from the government official that is good. It was the attitude of 'you radio operators need to do a better job of self policing'. They are the governmemt, they have the resources, money and time to address issues. We all certainly pay enough taxes that they should at least pretend to take the drivers seat. If they found it important they could track someone down in a day or two. Maybe I misunderstood his comment or he said it poorly.
FCC is not funded by the taxes we pay, they're funded entirely by regulatory fees. That was Josh's point - they put resources where the biggest fees come from, commercial & broadcast, not amateur radio. The also do put time for issues first responders are having due to the public safety nature of it.
@benjaminheyser bingo.
@@BenjaminHeyser Total nonsense. That's the narrative, not the detail. For example; the money to be allocated as an emergency request as part of the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985 is the government assigning tax income towards internet fee subsidies for the low income demographic. They are most certainly not funded entirely by regulatory fees... The latest request for funding was tendered in April of 2024 as the last amount of funding is nearing exhaustion. This is just one of hundreds of useless tax funded programs that the FCC manages.
Headline April 2024: Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel has urged lawmakers to renew funding for the Affordable Connectivity Program (ACP).
No, revenue isn't assigned by program. It isn't required by policy.
BINGO!!! 😂
Josh, watched both. Good response to the comments. Agree 100%. You have every right to expect a higher standard from your subscribers.
Great video as there has really been a pretty significant uptick in unlicensed operators in my area. It’s a valid and worthwhile conversation and it’s unfortunate that there isn’t an easy solution. My radical idea (while unpopular) is to gradually switch our repeaters to p25 and be done with the loons. The illegal activity has a negative impact on our hobby.
Back in the mid 90's we had a 10m net at 28.302, which was just inside the USB portion of the band. The reason we were there was because Mexican taxi services were using that frequency for their communications, clearly violating international and US band plans. One of our members had a 24Vdc system in his Suburban, and ran a 1.5kW amplifier in it. We were effective enough that they ceased using the amateur bands, at least that portion of them.
Interesting ideas to consider. Personally I would likely collect lots of info and send it to the individual just to avoid a confrontation, unless its a known person in the local ham community. In which case maybe a conversation is a decent option - maybe it's inadvertent interference by a kid or misconfigured radio (how many of us have heard youtube playing on the FT8 frequencies).
I watched the video a second time, and I still think it is a very bad idea for someone to get a group of guys and a woman and knock on a stranger's door and threaten to turn them over to the government. Not saying it won't work like you said it would some of the time to prevent interference, but if you get the wrong person, I think it is an unnecessary risk someone should take in the name of "Self-Policing" for the FCC. I've known people who received bodily injury by bad people for much less. You presented this information from the FCC guy as "good ideas", which made it appear and sound like you were endorsing it and encouraging it, which I think is why so many people were hard on you.
Completely agree
Me too @@realfoggy
@@realfoggyme too
I completely disagree. Getting a group of people together to simply, and politely request to stop, and also inform the individual the information you have and you will be notifying the FCC is not a threat. You’re simply explaining the situation. You knock on the door, say your peace, and leave. That simple. Where do you live that something like this would get a group of people murdered or physically harmed???
I think it would be fine just as long as you exercise some discretion. So if the person doing the interference is belligerent and drunk maybe knocking on the door isnt a great idea. But if its mostly kid type behavior. Then knocking on the door wont be the end of you.
I've been a general for one year and a ham for 6 years overall, and the second most disappointing thing I've discovered about the hobby are the whack jobs that somehow derive enjoyment out of messing with people or otherwise junking up the bands. Easily the most disappointing thing I have discovered is the FCC's complete unwillingness bring enforcement actions in amateur radio, no matter what their excuse is. If this were the National Park Service, and people were routinely coming into national parks drunk driving, cutting down trees, and harassing campers; if the park service's response was "Well, we'd love to help you, but we're just so understaffed, maybe you can find the drunk drivers and knock on their doors and ask them to behave. And anyway, if you cause us too much trouble, we might just sell the parkland to that timber or oil company over there and make some big bucks..." people would be rightly enraged. 99.8% of hams are great people and go out of their way to be helpful and courteous to other hams, but there are absolutely bad actors out there, and it's become common knowledge what frequencies to avoid. No one person owns the electromagnetic spectrum, and the government doesn't either; as citizens we all collectively own it and give consent to the government to manage it on our behave, and once the government abdicates that responsibility, clearly changes need to happen. As hams our names and addresses are all out there, and we've basically already doxxed ourselves. The couple of run in's I've had with bad actors left me with the distinct impression that they're mentally ill, and people I want no part of in real life. So if 99.8% of us are doing the right thing, and there's a governmental organization mandated with dealing with the .2%, but they won't, how do we change that?
And maybe a little clarification, Josh, I think you do a great job, and I'm not being critical of you, but this is an issue I've had with the FCC since I unknowingly did a pota on a frequency too close to one of those unwritten "special frequencies", and I discovered the FCC's response is a shoulder shrug.
I was a critic yesterday. This was a phenomenal reply and I appreciate that you did this. You obviously put thought and effort into it. I am now a bigger fan than I was two days ago. 73
I appreciate that.
Thank you for posting this subject, Josh. I have had some but not a lot of intentional interference from individuals. I see the biggest problem as the Net operators that come on and declare "This Frequency belongs to our XYZ net" we have been using it for X years. Some of them are polite and will ASK you to give way, and I will willingly QSY. I find most of the time they will just bully their way onto the frequency with more power. These are the people that should be the Best not Worst examples of good Ham Radio etiquette.
"We're all ordinary people, we may think we're special", Our YT and HAM communities have quite a few characters indeed. Keep up the luv and smile you project onto others as its infectious Josh. Sometimes, more so in comments than on air it's best "to move to frequency B". As a QRP operator I was once visited by two individuals from the FCC back in 80'. It turned out two fellow HAMs with stations 1 block and 6 blocks over respectively went DEFCON 2 outa the gate. I too woulda preferred a knock on the door, but no foul. I would have addressed any problems wholeheartedly, moreover Pops would've made sure of it. We found and addressed the exposed and dilapidate TelePromTer Cable TV amplifier on pole behind the house - broadcasting that distinct SSB martian voice into the living rooms of the entire neighborhood. Didn't help I had no idea what a choke or line isolator was. Those two HAMS became my Elmer's, best of friends. Both now silent keys, I reminisce the many hours at their house chewing the rag and working the bands! Life is short.
Blessings, Dave
Glad you made the updated video. Thanks.
Sacajawea is often credited with helping greatly in diffusing any misconceptions that more hostile tribes might have had with Lewis and Clark. A bunch of men traveling with a woman (and one in attire of a fairly neutral Native American tribe). A female in a group of males adds a different non-verbal (visual) preconceived dynamic to most cultures.
I love the video and wanted to say in the 1980's when I was growing up, my father would find people doing things on the ham bands with his repeater group. keep up the great work. and if your wounding how they found people doing things in the 80's? They would use manual SDR if I may say It that way. buts its very easy with 3 points of contact. Then draw three Lines and where they meet you will find them. 73's buddy
Yessir! Thanks for the comment!
That Kraken SDR with 5 antennas reminds me of the old Low Jack system. Same principle and basic tech behind it probably.
The FCC must think we live in a utopian world - wanting us to go to people's houses after tracking them down with our own equipment, almost sounds like they need to have a voluntary FCC Agent training program in place. Depending on who you are, this might not be the best thing to do. Situations can escalate very quickly, and seeing how most folks who are interfering are intentionally doing it, and seeing how most responses to requests from actual FCC agents are viewed as mediocre jokes to be highly disrespected by most individuals, this is a very sticky situation to be involved in. Personally, I would probably start with a letter AFTER properly tracking, and if it continued, then file a report with the FCC.
It is not worth getting hurt or in some altercation with someone because they jammed my radio. Just look at some of the comments that were written in response to the first video - nope, not going! The world we live in now is very defensive with a lot of aggression, both victim and perpetrator, and in this case the roles could be reversed as well - you are stepping onto someone else's property to accuse them of interfering and violating FCC rules? I can't be optimistic about this idea. We don't really have the credentials or rights to enforce violations of amateur bands like the FCC should.
Again, they said that has been successful in the past. People live in different communities where knocking on doors is completely reasonable. You probably don't or have a very myopic view of the country.
I think the point I'm trying to make is it is a very unknown territory. We basically have no idea who or what we are going up against. If people have no respect for authority, they probably would have much less respect for non authority trying to tell them what to do. I know of a vigilante justice group that goes around doing undercover investigations. Just not my cup of tea for many reasons.
Josh I love ya man, but you have a very naive view of the country and you are not going to change anyone's opinion nor is it wise to pretend that "community" exists outside of some randomly scattered small groups. @@HamRadioCrashCourse
The distinguishing feature of ham radio is that VFO knob. I admit, I don't have the courage to confront someone at their home over radio jamming. I "just spin the knob."
Granted, I don't participate in nets on HF and not often on the repeaters. I dont have the old radio buddies that I ragchew with. I do understand the frustration a jammer could cause in those realms though. I have had it happen to me a few times. When it does, I just spin the knob.
I love this on HF. Locked frequency pairs on a repeater? Doesn’t work really.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse True. We've got a statewide system in CO that's constantly targeted. I'm lucky that I can still "spin" to another machine and reach folks.
Josh - the FCC is not self funding off of what we pay, or sales of spectrum. They derive their funding from the US General fund and their budget is from the Congress. The money they collect in all aspects goes into the US treasury.
Everything comes from the general fund! Lookup their budget, it’s based on the money they bring in from the previous year.
Good and informative video. Thank you. 💪
I appreciate this second video. I would also state that your first video, say 20 years ago, may have been very good advice and a good strategy. Today, however, people are different. Much more sensitive and "edgy" for whatever reasons. I still advocate, whenever possible, delivering the message through some 3rd party - whoever that party maybe. Preferably some trusted organization within the community. The message I would deliver would that their actions are not only a nuisance but potentially illegal. I would encourage them to actually join the ham radio group. If they are not licensed, the ham radio club can help them become license, explain the value of ham radio, teach them how to be a responsible operator, and perhaps provide them with some kind of an outlet. People frequently engage in hooliganism because they are seeking attention, again for whatever negative reasons. By encouraging them to join a club you may turn a bad actor into a good one. Just a thought. 73!.
I try not to generalize so hard. I would make a decision to knock after better understanding the situation. To paint with such a wide brush all hams, seems lacking.
Well done Josh you do good work.
Thanks 👍
Re-transmitting conversations on a different frequency, violates FCC 97.113 section that prohibits broadcasting (a one-way transmission). Don't do it.
The FCC invalidates their own rules, and their authority if they start picking and choosing which published rules to enforce, or not. If they do this, they can be destroyed in a court of law if they try to punish some violations, while ignoring others. Justice is assumed, and expected to be applied equally.
thank you as always for the thoughtful discussion Josh!
My pleasure!
Every once in a while someone flies in from some angle with some interesting ideas. Thanks for sharing some of your insights. One could dive in deeper as to the cause for one to engage in such activities as well but would be asking a lot.
As a critically-thinking adult who read some of the comments on the first video; I feel bad that you have to do a follow up video on this.
Like noses, everybody's got an opinion. It definitely started a conversation, albeit it made me have a kind of smack-my-head reaction to a lot of the comments.
Keep up the great work! You are an outstanding Elmer with awesome information and interesting perspectives about the hobby that (at least) I haven't of thought of.
73!
Michael-WA5AZQ
Thanks
Sounds like some of the best advice I have heard.. For one, here in the south we love our guns and if you walk up with a group ( mob by law ) of guys to someone's front door and start being a smart ass and threatening it could go wrong in a hurry. So I think by asking like you said is it possible that there was an unattended radio that some teenager could be using would be a good approach..That gives the offender an out and could keep a situation from escalating
You shouldn't approach any house in America with garbage like this, period. A person jamming has psychiatric problems in the first place.
Ok I'm a Ham operator from the EU so be aware of that. First of all idiots are everywhere but at least now most of them use the internet instead of HF bands, since it's easier and cheaper. But from my knowledge if there are some bad actors on the air my duty is to report this incident to our local equivalent of FCC. The idea of me going to some random persons house seems absurd. First of all you can record the incidents but still our FCC needs to get it's own proof of breaking the law. This is because I could accuse someone falsly. The peple from that office are Federal workers that are protected by law. They can demand from an owner to let them in with the assiatance of the police. If someone would want to harm them that person would face much harsher punishment. Going to such house is considered not only dangerous (and we have very strict gun control) but would also be like warning the guy that we are onto him. The thing about doing this our way is that you can wait a long time before such troublemaker is cought.
There's a sad ham here in Tennessee that likes to cause harmful interference on a local repeater. From intentionally doubling, kerchunking, using foul language and such. Problem is, those of us who use the repeater on a regular basis knows who it is.
I started to keep a log of the interference I'd hear on the repeater. Date, time, frequency what was the interference and length of time, that sort of thing. Eventually filed a complaint with the FCC. Within a few weeks, i received an email from the FCC saying that my complaint was being "looked into" (can't remember the exact language used).
After that, I haven't heard a thing from the FCC. Not sure if it got put on the back burner or the individual got word of the complaint filed and stopped causing interference. Anyways, what's one to do in a station similar to mine?
It's amazing how people inject their biases into what you're saying. Good tips for confronting offenders without creating additional conflict. Yes, a female presence will usually keep most guys on a more civil tone. FYI fellow 2A people: you can't shoot someone at your door, so take your fake tough guy panties off.
Thanks Josh.
This is definitely what we're seeing in the comments. Lots of bias, likely not based on reality.
Thoughtful video - much appreciated. Many very good ideas.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Bravo on calling out those attempting the testosterone flex. I applaud you for standing up and voicing how unacceptable that is. Interference, especially intentional, is a problem in need of policing. Those (on either side of the issue) seeing as an opportunity for violence are part of the problem, not the solution.
Weak trolls giving you a hard time. I appreciate you immensely for what you have done.
Thanks!
One soon to be 2 repeaters in our area use a voter system 5 to 8 voters choose best signal then goes out to two transmitters ... the owner can narrow down qrm to an area by the voter that the system chooses .. then go out and do finer tracking
I notice that you did not mention the ARRL. They DO have some resources that can help with locating problems on HF and getting the attention of the FCC. It might be worth talking to them even if you are not a member or supporter.
Sure pursue whatever you can, but that all sounds like more time added on top of an already long wait to get support from the FCC.
Great video! Thank you Josh.
Excellent video; I have witnessed the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the America on 40 meters. Well see problem here. radio waves do not stop at borders. I am very patriotic, but respect for other countries that hear this and say to themselves; "what is this!". See my point..
It's a bad idea to go to anyone's home uninvited let the fcc or police take care of it. If someone comes to my home over issues like this they wouldn't be welcome.
Thankfully the video clarifies that visiting in person is just one of several ways to notify an individual. If your situation doesn't align well with an in-person meeting, just email, mail, etc the person as Josh said.
Police do not care about repeater or HF interference. FCC complaints will get buried under all other complaints, even with emaculate research, you're still going to be waiting.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse I have dealt with this first hand only I was the falsely accused of jamming. The local ham club came after me based upon lies an false facts based up on the vise president of the local ham club. Long story short I had meny creepy hams passing by my home but none of them dare to come on the property. The local club never confronted me face to face but did lots of dirty things to try an get my radio lics taken away from me even went as far as calling my job which was not cool.. Anyway the fcc didn't seem to care they managed to get someone involved with the arrest after me talking to this person an sending him recordings of what's really going on let's just say he figured it out. Sure the police does not care I don't think the fcc do either put creepy hams taken it upon them selfs to trespass on private property just to address a matter isn't the way to go.
I'm sorry that happened, and yes, I think the story can go both ways here that those claimed to the one causing interference and is actually innocent. It sounds like regardless of where you ended up came from judicious research and record keeping that provided all the evidence you needed.
After 20 interruptions from my kids, I was finally able to finish this video. Makes sense to me. I like to approach any situation assuming the best rather than the worst. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. Approaching interactions this way normally leads to cordial discussion…at least it does for me. The reality is that you can’t please everyone. If everyone thought the same, life might get pretty boring.
I really do kind of want one of those KrakenSDRs. Pretty spiffy. Also, good response. 73!
I have an aluminum truck and I’m trying to figure out how to make it work. 😅
@@HamRadioCrashCourseGood luck! 🤣
Josh, thanks for addressing some comments and continuing to do the best you can. Do remember though that some of the people in your comments cannot be appeased or led to understanding because they don't want that. They want to be angry and they justify their anger by trying to make everyone else as angry as they are.
Thanks I appreciate that. I’ve been living with those types of commenters for my entirety on TH-cam. I can tell when I do a decent job or a bad job and yesterday’s video was lacking when considered it and it deserved an edit. Thanks for the support.
Why go to the house? Drop heavy hints over the repeater when they cause the next problem. So they know you know who they are. And ask them to stop, or they will force you to escalate to FCC.
Great idea. Totally in support.
And record the conversation!
Transmitting pre-recorded traffic while changing frequencies is old school ECCM
In this day and age I wouldn't go up to somebody's door but I would send a letter perhaps even from an attorney.
thanks josh for all you do. its a relief to hear sane people talk conflict resolution. so much trash on here. all the decent people who are fans of your channel are piping up to drown out the freaks
Thank you!
I could not disagree with this anymore. In the current times we live in, it is a very bad idea to show up with a group of guys to someones house to persuade them to do anything. The first thing any rational man is going to think is that your trying to intimidate him. What your suggesting is the equivalent of throwing fuel on an already well lit fire.
I do believe in some self policing. I have personally gotten a knock from a very friendly guy who is now one of my best friends, informing me that my radios were all kinds of out of wack when I first started out in HAM. So I think a friendly one on one visit with a reasonable neighbor is just fine. But you should only have to ask that person one time to stop and if they are willing, maybe take some of your time to get their equipment setup properly. After that its on the FCC to do their job. If they don't want to that's fine but they cant pretend to care if their not willing to enforce the rules. It is not my job to do their job. Those investigators know the risk and get paid to do what they do. I am an amateur radio operator. I have learned a lot from the FCC but how to be a field agent was not on the Technicians test.
Absolutely!
The video had much more than just "knock on doors", obviously it was mentioned because it has been effective, and yet no one was killed or attached.
Great job of getting the message out and explaining it so thoroughly. All of us that participate in nets, being it HF or VHF/UHF have had to deal with these jammers. Thanks. I do hope I can meet you some day to thank you personally for all you've done for our hobby, amateur radio.
Steve, k7ofg.
I appreciate that!
After 30 years of having my license, only ONE neighbor insisted I stay off the air, positive I caused radio interference, even when I was off the air. He called the FCC. They sent him a book on how HE needs to fix his equipment.
Interesting advice from FCC guy. Thanks for the video.
Great ideas Thanks for the great video!
I guess we are lucky in the Bay Area, because I never have really heard any issue like this on any local repeaters (well except the one Winlink one, so he’s probably not even local).
I remember one time some Sad Ham prick yelled at me because (I was new at the time) accidently keying on a HAM Freq. This dork screamed at me. 5150 psychopath
Krakensdr on a fox hunt! Love it!
I thought the last one was enough. Thanks Josh!
Did I understand correctly? This is a follow up to a previous video of a day earlier? I can't find the original video to see what you referenced??
He took the original video down. The segments of this video where he is wearing a grey shirt are the original video.
It was deleted
@@BenjaminHeyser Ok well I don't feel so inadequate in my interweb capability now at least. LoL
First time seeing this video. I would prefer to send a document. Perhaps by an legal group of attorneys. Imo, that would be the safest way. Perhaps in another town, maybe even the capital.
It too dangerous out there with all the nut cases with a microphone.
And just one incident will change everyone's life that was involved.
And perhaps ham radio forever.
It's a double edged sword.
Almost like the government is creating a crisis. Otherwise known as the Hegilian principal.
100%, sending letter likely my route.
Great job Josh You can lead them to the water but can’t make them drink. Hang in there you are doing great. 73 N9GSX
I'll keep trying. Thanks!
Honestly, I don't think you needed to clarify anything. It was perfectly clear to me, and I usually have some difficulty in understanding meanings behind everything.
I'm Dutch, so English isn't my first language, and I don't know the rules in the US. And I'm autistic, so I really need CLEAR instructions.
The only thing I don't really understand is how people can misinterpret what you said the first time. You did explain everything. That it was a conversation, not advice. That the FCC individual told you these tactics worked in the past. That you don't necessarily support what he told you either.
That said, I appreciate it VERY much that you made this video to clarify! Even if I think you shouldn't have to. People try to blame others more and more often, and only very few are capable of recognizing consequences of their own actions and taking responsibility. It clearly shows that you're a bigger person. Educating without judging. That, and my love for the HAM hobby, is exactly why I like your video's so much ;)
I had no problems understanding your original video, where radio amateurs rank in FCC importance (due to who pays what fees), and understood you were just relaying the ideas from the FCC employee.
Thanks for the video Josh!
Maybe a good approach would be instead of saying you track the interference to this address, you could say you tracked the interference to within
1/4 mile of this area and you were wondering if the "suspect" might have heard the interference and how strong it was at this location.
He will get the message and as you said, it gives him a way to back out while he wonders if they really tracked him down. This could be done with a letter too. The idea would be not to escalate the situation but end it at the same time.
thanks for the info on the Kraken currently suffering from an idiot on 2 meters fm
Track them down.
In the end, technology will bring down bad actors by automatically sharing their identification every time they press the PTT button. The real question is whether operators are willing to sacrifice some privacy in order to have uninterrupted conversations.
For those who say I pay $35 and have to take a test for my license and the FCC won't help me so why do I need to have a license. Well, that $35 and test you invested for your license my not be a big priority for the FCC since they have a lot of other frequencies to police, it IS a big investment for you. This gives you the incentive to police yourselves so that you can enjoy the hobby. If there were no licenses then you will have many bad actors taking the ham bands over and you lose your fun hobby. So don't just say well the FCC won't do anything so why should I bother, it's your investment and you should not put your head in the sand and do something.
Well said.
Nice video Josh !
Good video, I think you covered the various aspects well.
Thank you!
Thanks for posting. This is sort of going back to what used to happen in VK before about the 1970s. The same constraints apply to ACMA officers. Their resources are spread very thinly. This process depends on a few things to be successful. The amateurs doing the monitoring need to have a very good relationship with the FCC officers. They also need to have good ‘technical’ skills which will stand up to scrutiny. In VK we don’t have the 1st & 2nd amendment issues but you will certainly have to be able to deal with ’grumpy’ individuals. Another issue is that some of these individuals have mental health issues which may be taken into consideration. DE John VK4VT.
Interesting point, in the states, the first amendment has nothing to do with access to radio.
Mate, have you now finally learned that the first amendment has nothing to do with access to radio?
We had a newly licensed Ham here in New Bern NC who was talking (possibly antagonizing) people on Emergency frequencies. We still have some analog here. Not sure how they caught him but the Sheriff got him. He was arrested with a court date but I'm unsure what happened after that. Local law enforcement could come into play in situations like this.
No. You said it yourself, your local was antagonizing on EMERGENCY FREQUENCIES. In case you didn't notice, this is not what we are talking about here at all.
@@624radicalham Sad Ham
I agree with those who think this is a bad idea. You did not mention anything about the ARRL’s role that they say they have regarding self policing. Even then, for those who maliciously. Interfere, the worst form of bad acting, I don’t think anyone should approach these people. This is why we have law enforcement. Unfortunately the FCC’s resources are so hollowed out that their role has been diminished to the point that only prolonged interference with first responders gets attention - review the docket.
A person to person confrontation may well result in personal harm to all parties involved. You want to fix this - lobby your congressmen, better yet get the feckless ARRL to lobby to craft language in the law that can engage local law enforcement. - ha ha, like that would work. I am not sure how this issue can be effectively addressed if the FCC won’t do it, but people confronting a rules violator is NOT the answer!
I don't believe the ARRL or the police do anything about intentional interference on a repeater. Keep in mind, the FCC isn't "Law enforcement"
I’m with you Josh.
Thanks for your efforts to inform and be reasonable and for keeping it real.
My issue is more with cheap TV and LED Christmas light interference. 😊
Good grief, the keyboard warriors are out in force based on those comments from the original video. It would not surprise me if half or more of said keyboard warriors condone intentional interference OR that they're the first in line to piss and moan about interference but will refuse to help solve the problem. Good on you for addressing those goofballs, Josh.
I like the idea or sending a letter or an email, especially if it can have a club letterhead and is more official looking. I would agree that in most cases that alone would put a stop to it. Especially if it's someone who bought a cheap ht and is just fooling around because they think it's funny. I also think the going to their house is going to depend largely on where you live.
Overall, I agree that a lot of the responsiblity for policing the bands is going to be on the ham operators. Compared with the big broadcasters, and telecoms we are tiny fish in a large pond. And our $30 every 10 years is nothing compared to what the FCC could potentially sell the bands for
Probably the route I would go myself. 👍
I love the idea of the decoy net on a different band to waste the jammer's time 😂 what a troll move!
Fight trolling with trolling.
Two misconceptions that I have seen in many comments.
1) That having people standing at your door cannot be taken as imposing, potentially to the point of interpreted as threatening. It is obvious that some people have only lived in "civilized" areas, with low crime rates, and do not understand the survival instincts that others have developed. There some people have gone overboard in their defensive postures.
Don't show up looking like The Ghostbusters, or a uniformed group, etc.
2) Some people assume the person answering the door will be calm and rational. The types that do these over the air hijinx are typically immature, intoxicated, or some other form of contaminated thinking, if not a mixture of these. You cannot be rational with an irrational person, so understand that the discussion could go very differently than you planned.
Very good comment thanks!
Perfect!!👌
Thanks!
Thank you for a very interesting and informative discussion Josh, this is a world wide phenomenon. There is no one method that is guaranteed to work every time but your ideas certainly have merit in most situations. Giving the suspect an out is a good de escalation strategy and should work in most cases, there are the occasional slow learners out there and that is where enforcement from an authority like your FCC will come into play.
Unfortunately here in Australia we have just transferred from an apparatus license to a class license system and the Australian Media and Communication Authority (ACMA) equivalent to the FCC has moved Amateurs from the ACMA RRL Database to a new NON-DATABASE that has absolutely no information on it apart from what class of licence the callsign has been allocated. Even an operators first name would be of help but they cite garbage privacy concerns.
Collecting information about the identity of a person causing QRM takes many forms, it is not only direction finding but can also involve listening to background noises that could give away the location of the transmissions, piecing together things that are said by the operator will also contribute to the jigsaw puzzle. Gathering forensic information is an art in itself.
How much of an issue is this in Australia? I haven't been active for about 5 years. Aside from a couple of 40m. "CBer's" and our obligatory northern fishing friends at the top of the 40 m. band, this sort of behaviour wasn't an issue. My local repeater is VK3RCV atop Mt. Alexander. I've never heard it being interfered with once.
I mean, if someone is jamming up a repeater for long amounts of time, yea a kraken or directional yagi will work. The QRM in my area tends to be a quick cuss word, or some teenage moaning and squealing. Mostly directed at certain people.
In order to fox hunt someone, they have to stay keyed down for some amount of time. That won't work with the QRM I hear.
Going to someone's house in the area of the US I work in is a bad, bad idea. For 26 bucks a month been verified will tell you where someone works, what car they own, if they've ever been arrested, everything. Use that information to send letters to houses, employers, leave notes on cars.
There's dummies in every hobby, let them have 7200. Rather than scatter them to the wind. Besides, how are you gonna fox hunt HF? A kraken won't do it. It can be done, but it's expensive and time consuming. Send letters, report them to the FCC, maybe call them out on the air, then let it go.
good discussion, thanks for your efforts to improve our hobby.