Best Tournament Army Lists! ~ Australian Masters 2023 Breakdown
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video we breakdown the top 10 army lists from the Austrlian Masters 2023 tournament!
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Thanks for the video. Definitely looks like some funky alliances going on to create Meta lists. Well done in your placing Jacob and Thanks for the breakdown, its interesting vs Ardacon lists. Also i understand the tricky position you were in analysing some of your friends list in this, but I think the rules should have banned Tom B and Smaug before the tournament, as they couldn't have been fun to play against..
I'm a fairly new player down in western Melbourne, and it's fascinating to see how the local meta skews so heavily from what I read about online on the "proper" way to build forces.
I mean, I'm still building a semi-horde list with Army of Thror, but it's nice to know that smaller model count lists can do such good work!
I would LOVE to see a video (or a battle report) on the Fangorn list. I love low model count lists, and that list looks incredibly fun.
I'm always blown away by the way that lists that seem unbelievably silly or gimmicky can consistently do really well in MESBG when piloted by a skilled player.
Traditional wisdom in wargaming is so often that hordes win the day, but there's what, three armies here with fewer than ten models?
Even Smaug, the ultimate in "fun but not realisically very competitive", didn't just do well but had a podium finish. So cool to see.
I love this videos 😍 I was not expecting the top 2 armies, but it gave me some ideas 😁
Congratulations on the new Kickstarter project, I didn't know about it but I have backed your previous 2 projects there so I'm gonna check this one out 👌
very interesting, most events ive been too in the UK outright ban bombadil and goldberry and have a minimum model count to avoid smaug, just because they are generally "unfun" due to weird rules and/or "non games" with some match up/scenarios. Obviously "unfun" is subjective haha
Interesting to hear that Tom is getting banned. I think it's totally fair enough however I actually don't mind him at all in regular armies. In the 10th place army for example, I thought he was a fair and balanced inclusion. In the 4th place army it was obviously a different story
I think it helps that she was playing other lower count armies. I imagine beornings would struggle against high numbers.
No AOL either.
Still an amazing player
A big focus on super hard to kill snd also hard hitting heros. Wild to see smaug place high like that. Just goes to show you skilled players can accomplish a lot with things that may have the "bad" label.
Beronings? Did Kylie get her army from Aldi?
Great video - minor nit though: the cheapest 3A hero isn't Gorbag - it's a Hunter Orc Captain on foot. Gorbag will tie in cost with Dori from Thorin's Company (if Gorbag doesn't take a shield) or Zagdush/Mauhur if he does.
I think for a future video you should go through all the GW created characters evil and good! Murin & Drar for example are some of my favourites!
This would be a fun one! I'll add it to my list
Got my winged nuzgul to make, got this video watch. It's freezing cold outside, warm inside. Perfect night 🎉
The Fangorn/Saruman list was playing sorcerous blast wrong. If you sorcerous blast into combat monsters get knocked prone as well. If Fangorn had its army bonus you could argue that their immune to even a friendly spell I suppose but without it they would've been knocking themselves prone.
Perhaps useful to save him from a big hero making strikes or something but then you'd have to win a move off the next turn to stand up so... Probably not a very competitive list if played by the rules.
Yup, you're right. I was really confused since I play treebeard in a low model list as well and I thought I missed an errata or smth.
So they cheated?
There is a surprising lack of knowledge of the rules sometimes. It seems the rules are complicated and there is not much standard arbitrition forthcoming.
I have it on good authority the player was well aware of that rule and instead was blasting models INTO the combat (spear supports, ransoms who failed terror etc.) which I believe follows the normal S6 rules
-Jordy
This was me speaking about this list after the fact without realising that rule. Andreas 100% played the list correctly and did not use this. Totally my bad
Yeaaah for that 8th place list Id switch Fimbul and Azog then make Azog from the Legion and replace the two warg riders with Gundabad Berserkers OR some Gundabad spear guys to put them behind the hunter orcs.
But the berserkers are more fun so I would pick them personally
I totally agree that this would have made the list a lot stronger! I need to catch up with Matt to get the run down on what his plan was and why he chose to go pure. I may have just been a theme choice
I was wondering if you or anyone knows of a place to get stls for ME SBG,
What army points i should prepare for tournaments? Around 650ish 700 or around 750? I saw this one was 700 other of your video 650.
So if you throw a model into your combat isn’t then treebeard also on the ground ? How is he supposed to shred them in to pices then ? Or do i miss something ?
Best regards
11:36
Is there a knight of the white tower model in metal?
Thought they only were finecasts
I'm asking cause I'd be killing for one of them in metal. Only reason I don't have one is that I thought all of them are non metal
What scenarios were played ?
Gah Kylie is a fkng BEAST dude
@conquest creations
Love this report as the Australian meta never fails to go for fun. It’s like you all play a different game; love to see the wacky/different armies top.
That being said . . .
SOME QUESTIONS/DRAMA/Further Questions and Hopefully Explanation(s) to follow?
Did the organizer rule Sorcerous Blast differently than the GW Faq?
If not then the 2nd place person Andreas was “cheating” (soft or hopefully not “hard cheating”) the entire tournament if they were using Sorcerous Blast to “knock models prone” and then “kill them with trees in combat” as you Jacob said; ala 1st trick.
Why? This is because the Trees should also be knocked prone as well if they’re in the same combat.
From the FAQ:
Q: If a model in a combat is affected by the Sorcerous Blast Magical Power, will any models of Strength 6 or higher in the same combat also be knocked Prone and take a Strength 3 hit as well? (p.100)
A: Yes.
The above doesn’t specify that it’s only “enemy models” as it says: “any.” Which in this case is all models -including friendly *waves bye to the Fellbeast that the Witch King was mounted on when Sorcerous Blast hits a Orc in the same combat.*
Furthermore, the normal Army Bonus of Ents:
“. . . Additionally, Ent models are completely unaffected by any Magical Powers or special rules that would prevent them from moving or move them against their will (the only exception is that they will still take the
hit from a Sorcerous Blast, but will suffer no further effects). Additionally, Ent models are completely unaffected by the Nature’s Wrath and Wrath of Bruinen Magical Powers.”
Doesn’t apply to the above Sorcerous Blasting into combat scenario because they don’t have the Army Bonus rule while they’re in a Yellow Alliance with Saruman.
Unless I’m missing something?
Would love to hear further explanations.
Cheers as always!
Thanks for the comment! Great explanation and reference to the rules.
This was my mistake. Andreas did not ever actually sorcerous blast anyone into the combat to knock them over. I got the rules wrong and presumed that this was a tactic that he had access to, but I was incorrect. He played it 100% legally
@@ConquestCreationsbest to clarify more openly mate because many of us have the same question, how did he win then if not via the cheeky sorcerous blast jank that GW ruled against?
Yes we absolutely all have this same question 😅
@@punchyMiddleEarth Thanks for the comment. No sure how I can be any more open. Andreas did not sorcerous blast models into the combats. He never used the sorcerous blast jank because it was against the rules.
In the video I spoke about it being a potential strategy because I misunderstood the rules and I though that it is something that he could have done.
The list is very powerful. If you want to see it in action there is actually a live battle report of my game against that army. You can find it here: th-cam.com/video/_lvYyAEO3b0/w-d-xo.html
Hello western comrades, need your help! Some special rules or stuff of power give a Heroes possibility to SPEND (expend) 1 point of Will each turn
without reducing their own Will store. So, in situation where Hero have 0 Will points, these rules have no effect????? cuz u cant spend 1 from 0 (it will be -1). Am I right?
Tnx for video
The wording is a little bit strange but the intention is very clearly that a hero with a staff of power may spend one point of will per turn for free. If you have 0 will remaining you can still spend a point of will with your staff.
This also applies to mighty hero which allows you to spend a free point of might per turn.
@@ConquestCreations
Thanks a lot
Why 2nd place Fangorn choose to play quickbeam instead of also allying with misty mountains and playing gwaihir? March sure can help get somewhere, but for something like rushing to objective or cross some buildings gwaihir will still be quicker.
Gwahir is a very different unit to Quickbeam so it's hard to compare them.
This biggest reason would have been theme. With Quickbeam it's a really cool moment from the story whereas with Gwahir it is a strange yellow alliance soup.
About 10th place and Tom Bombadil. It doesn't say that Tom Bombadil can't do any damage but can not make any strikes. Does it mean that his side can still do moster attacks as they do not count as strikes?
Tom Bombadil is a weird one hahahah. His rule states that no friendly models in the fight can strike blows if Tom is in the fight.
Not exactly. It states that ,,can make strikes of any kind'' Rule of the brutal power attack states that brutal power attacks are not form of a strike.@@ConquestCreations
@@usanve8335 you must be able to strike to do brutals. If you can't do strikes you can't replace them with a brutal power attack.
Where can I find such a rule?@@Klickor
@@usanve8335 in the rulebook. BPAs are instead of strikes. No strikes no BPA. If you are prone or transfixed or against Tom you can't do strikes and thus no BPA
Can you explain the 4th place list some more?
Also great breakdown and analysis
And well done to you for placing top 10
So in short, this list utilizes an "exploit" in the game's split between imperial and metric measurements. The rules state that no enemy model can enter Tom's control zone for any reason, which per the main rulebook, extends 1" in every direction from the model. Games Workshop infantry bases are 25mm, which is slightly smaller than 1". That means that *technically*, an ally model in base contact with Tom is fully within his zone of control with about .02" of bubble extending beyond. Since the rules state that you cannot enter Tom's zone "for any reason", you cannot actually charge Tom's ally due to the .02 bubble. The conceit of the list is a collection of high impact heroes that basically just walk around in a circle around Tom, unable to be charged and getting constantly refilled by his Refreshing Song spell. A lot of the player community considers this to be a bad faith list, as the rules as intended are largely agreed to be that the 1"=one infantry base. This list is part of the reason Tom tends to be banned at events because beyond his own general lack of interaction, he creates an environment that is fundamentally unfun to play against and wins by exploiting a mechanic of the models, not necessarily through any inherent power of the list or skill of the pilot. But as it is technically a legal play, many TOs choose to ban the model rather than address the interaction directly. My guess is that Jacob is in the "this isn't how it should be played" camp and so didn't want to dwell on the list, though he definitely could've taken a minute to explain the problem with it since I'm sure there are a lot of players who have never encountered it in this way.
@@agthilian1117 Wait really? Like that's the actual how/why the army was taken?
@@charlesa.7550 I haven't seen any battle reports from this tourney so I can't say with 100% certainty that Tom was played this way, but that style of list popped up in the UK a little while back using the exact mechanic I described and he is largely banned because of it. So looking at the list composition and Jacob's terse reaction to it, I think it's safe to say that the same thing happened here.
@@charlesa.7550yes
@@agthilian1117yes he did actually do that, and some opponents refused to play him/left the tournament because of it.
There would have been enough space for the Hunterorks of Azog in Bolgs and Fimbuls warband. I think he should have had taken Azog from Azogs Legion.
wait is 5th place legal? numenor has 3 bows on 7 models, am i missing something?
Thanks for the comment! Good question
yes that is allowed. The bow limit is 33% of your troops can have bows but this is rounding up. It means that if you have 10 models you can take 4 bows, or if you have 7 models that you can have 3 bows
The Smaug player got 4 wins and ine tie. But he was killed bybthe Rivendell Numenor player. Wouldn't that make him lose?
Nice looking armies. Nerf the bears.😂
I think they should nerf the beornings. Why are they F5? They should not be that strong.
@@grimgrauman7650😂they are 20pts each and D4! 🤷🤦
@@punchyMiddleEarth Giant Spieder are also 20p and only D3. So what?
Ugh gosh my least favorite army winning😂 idk why but I can never beat those bears lol
Smarttttttt, do the smaller Masters before the Oceanic masters.
build up hype
😂
I hardly even get to play in general and this guy is talking about tournaments 😂😂
The low model count, all hero or smaug armies seem like a complete nightmare. I absolutely respect the mechanical ingenuity of the lists, but I don't believe they'd provide an enjoyable experinece for most players. Many of the builds are predicated on now allowing your opponent to play, which I would argue is a "bad feels" win objective.
I'd be very curious to know what the tournament objectives were.
As always, thanks!
Kylie is just winning with every army in the game for shits and giggles.
the lists no, but the players yes
Beornings are such a lame meta force to use