Yup, seems like the "best to underlevel rather than overlevel them at the start" is really applicable here The spider mines right now seem more of a "suddenly the entire enemy behavior" changed thing where dealing with them might be very different from dealing with regular tarantulas, similar to assault marksman functioning very differently from the regular one, but the lack of exp seems to really hamper it a lot I wonder if it wouldn't be more interesting as a unit without regular weapons but rather just the spider mines, so that the techs either give it a weapon or buff/change the spider mines in some way (flying spider mines? Spider mines on death? Etc.)
I’m sure this is what it was like in alpha testing but was even more unreliable with even weirder interactions that made the devs drift in this direction where it’s mostly a chaff clear turret with a cool attached tech like the typhoon, which probably also started with both guns and missiles before the missiles were split off into a tech upgrade
I was so disappointed to see spider mines kill my crawlers. Chaff clear, indeed. I'm experimenting with placing marks right behind them to try concentrated power strats and it's been "enh." I can notch aggro wins at 1.2k mmr and lose every time I pick them at 1.4k.
Yeah the friendly fire combined with self-exp denial really disappointed me with these. Think it's a cool concept and maybe they'd be too strong if they didn't do friendly fire but you could always tweak the HP values of the mines as needed.
They're cool, but a little undertuned. I want them to be beefy chaff clear, since we are lacking that at 200 cost, but their exceptionally short range leaves them very vulnerable, since fangs won't even walk in front! And since they often walk forwards when throwing mines they end up at the very front, it's a trap in too many ways. I have had luck with them as early game beef that you sell out of, similar to how you can play balls or stormcallers. Level 2 crawlers survive their shots, so you have to take tower buff which can be awkward on the rounds they are relevant at. They have done a really weird thing to the meta, though, which I appreciate. They add another target for high damage units to sink bullets into, making them more useful. I've found that buying a few marksman is almost always useful in every game, since their damage is never overkill on rhino, wraith, and now spiders too. This means people are more setup to fight against giants earlier, which pushes back the lategame.
I'm actually starting to warm up on them. My first handful of games I tried forcing Spidermine a lot which didn't work out. But they're actually not bad just using them as a solid anti-chaff platform who can go from 0-100 at the flick of a switch when you get two of Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range in a single turn round 4 onwards.
My initial feeling is that they counter mass tech'd or leveled crawlers more efficiently than arc lights and they're not good for much else. It's a little bit expensive unit to fill a weirdly specific niche.
Yeah, they're an answer to a problem we aren't having right now. Maybe I'm missing a key combination of techs to completely change their dynamic but I'm not seeing it.
I've found a strategy that works well with Tarantulas if I start with them but they definitely need some tweaks. Right now I'm using them as a tanky alternative to Arclights and teching armor or field maintenance. Four of them is enough for me to consistently win round 3 and 4 and force a predictable response. The most common counter to it I've seen is teching EMP on Marksmen or Stormcallers if they already have them, Steel Balls if they have good chaff clear, or Scorpion if none of the above.
Yeah, I've been doing a bit more testing and early Field Maintenance feels really good on them as a front line, especially with a HP item or after hitting level 2. Tend to prioritise Mech Rage → Range → AP Bullets if I'm going the carry route. Ever since dropping the Spidermines they've been doing good stuff for me!
Haha, they're actually not bad you know. Think my initial feeling on them has been coloured by Spidermines being a bit feast or famine and the EXP denial really rubbing me up the wrong way. Once I started going Mech Rage → Range → AP Bullets they really perform well but do need a lot of protection from EMP in the late game so don't neglect the Fang line in front of them.
I'll never forget the first time I saw your videos "drn". It was 1945, in a war-torn Germany. My family, barely making it through the hardships of World War II, found a moment of solace when your video filled our humble home. It was more than just a video; it was a miracle. As the video played, something unbelievable happened. My grandmother, whom we had lost to the turmoil, was somehow brought back to life by its power. Thank you "drn"
Not what I expected. I thought they would throw out a static aoe mine field around/behind them. Something good denying access on the route they've walked. Could add a lot more options to gameplay and promote usage of mobile beacon.
That's a cool idea though I wonder how much of the power budget would need to be in the souped up mines for them to be viable if the mines are left behind in their tracks.
@@Drone_101 No idea! Could make them a temporary purchase like a sentry missile? You could scale the mines. Light wide aoe mines to trigger on chaff. Lone heavy mines to trigger on giant units.So many things to play around with. Bit of a waste just having little bots that run towards the nearest foe.
I don't mind them... I did have a game with a high ranked player where they leveled tarantula and spider mines also level. This was rather difficult to deal with and annoyingly effective.
I'm actually starting to warm up on the Tarantula. My first handful of games I tried forcing Spidermine a lot which didn't work out. But they're actually not bad just using them as a solid anti-chaff platform who can go from 0-100 at the flick of a switch when you get two of Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range in a single turn round 4 onwards.
The friendly fire on the mines is *killer,* it completely invalidates them as an option in any reasonable sense. Currently, you have to get range or armor, and they're still just worse than a pair of arclights. They do however have what I call the mustang effect, where they scale really well with upgrades/items. This morning I got a level 6 with uhh... the free level up item. It performed really well.
Yeah, you're right about the scaling I've noticed it too. Think I'd call them a Snowball unit, can get out of control and pump out a lot of damage with upgrades, levels and items. Think my initial assessment was coloured by the poor performance of Spidermines, since taking it off them I've been having a lot of success with triple tech Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range. You'd need to protect them from EMP with boat loads of Fangs or anti-missile devices in the late game but it's working for me.
Yeah, the mines really coloured my initial assessment of them. Think without the mines they're actually pretty solid. I've been running mainline carry on them with triple tech - Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range. As long as you can control the chaff feed to keep pace with the enemy chaff clear these things can make mincemeat of a lot of the board. Haste Module goes really well on them.
I played against somewhat carry tarantulas today and they can deal a lot of damage and they kinda shut down mass sledges (or I didn't play them right) but scorpions deal with them really well and so do melters if the spiders are high level. But I won with them against hackers earlier so idk what to say, the ladder isn't used to them yet so maybe that's why they're slightly better now or maybe they will actually get better if people figure out how to use them
What techs did the Carry Tarantula's try? I've given Range + Mech Rage a go and Range + AP shots. Haven't braved 3 or 4 techs in one go though. Been meaning to try Armor + Field Maintence and use them as front line emp bait.
@@Drone_101 both I and my opponents usually went range and AP, I usually go AP first tho because I kinda like it, it just feels better, have yet to see mech rage, but I tried out mines in the later rounds, they didn't really affect anything
It seems that the spider mines are greatly effective against crawlers and not at all great against fangs (can be shot from afar, the former runs at then the latter stops to shoot) and thus cements fangs as the better unit more (salzwerk said crawlers are great early game and bad late game units compared to fangs)
What is the point of killing the opponents crawlers with mines that kill your own crawlers at the same time too? Like bruh, I paid for this tech to get an advantage
Very VERY tech reliant and being lower tier means you should spam them if you are pumping techs on them. you'll fall in the trap of "how can this be bad when i have 3 techs on something i have 6 of?" Are they adding something that doesnt already exist in the game? yes with Tech are they good at their role? yes with tech can they be a carry / keystone unit? yes with tech are they worth getting? yes with free unit card but you'll likely need or want something else offered for their tech is their anti air tech good? no because it doesnt boost range nor damage vs them is field maintenance worth it? not unless you have 3 or more levels on 2 of them Mechanical Rage seems like it also needs to be paired with range or they will run to far forward Range doesnt seem good by its self unless you are having real problem with keeping behind your chaff, but that can be fixed with better initial placement AP bullets worth? not sure, it will over kill chaff and get to close to giants without range to really shine at hurting them
After more testing think I'll have to call them a Snowball unit. They can get out of control and pump out a lot of damage with upgrades, levels and items. My initial assessment was coloured by the poor performance of Spidermines, since taking it off them I've been having a lot of success with triple tech Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range. You need to protect them from EMP with boat loads of Fangs or anti-missile devices in the late game but it's been working for me, even into Fortified Scorpions when I was playing Cost Control, which was a surprise.
That is one thing i didn't even notice on my testing with the Tarantula. XP gain denial is a trip.
Felt very wrong, thought I was guaranteed a level up in the first clip and then walked away with nothing.
Yup, seems like the "best to underlevel rather than overlevel them at the start" is really applicable here
The spider mines right now seem more of a "suddenly the entire enemy behavior" changed thing where dealing with them might be very different from dealing with regular tarantulas, similar to assault marksman functioning very differently from the regular one, but the lack of exp seems to really hamper it a lot
I wonder if it wouldn't be more interesting as a unit without regular weapons but rather just the spider mines, so that the techs either give it a weapon or buff/change the spider mines in some way (flying spider mines? Spider mines on death? Etc.)
Yeah, have it as a spider mine thrower with a mediocre turret rather than a rapid firing turret with a mediocre spider mine.
I’m sure this is what it was like in alpha testing but was even more unreliable with even weirder interactions that made the devs drift in this direction where it’s mostly a chaff clear turret with a cool attached tech like the typhoon, which probably also started with both guns and missiles before the missiles were split off into a tech upgrade
I was so disappointed to see spider mines kill my crawlers. Chaff clear, indeed. I'm experimenting with placing marks right behind them to try concentrated power strats and it's been "enh." I can notch aggro wins at 1.2k mmr and lose every time I pick them at 1.4k.
Yeah the friendly fire combined with self-exp denial really disappointed me with these. Think it's a cool concept and maybe they'd be too strong if they didn't do friendly fire but you could always tweak the HP values of the mines as needed.
They're cool, but a little undertuned. I want them to be beefy chaff clear, since we are lacking that at 200 cost, but their exceptionally short range leaves them very vulnerable, since fangs won't even walk in front! And since they often walk forwards when throwing mines they end up at the very front, it's a trap in too many ways.
I have had luck with them as early game beef that you sell out of, similar to how you can play balls or stormcallers. Level 2 crawlers survive their shots, so you have to take tower buff which can be awkward on the rounds they are relevant at.
They have done a really weird thing to the meta, though, which I appreciate. They add another target for high damage units to sink bullets into, making them more useful. I've found that buying a few marksman is almost always useful in every game, since their damage is never overkill on rhino, wraith, and now spiders too. This means people are more setup to fight against giants earlier, which pushes back the lategame.
I'm actually starting to warm up on them. My first handful of games I tried forcing Spidermine a lot which didn't work out. But they're actually not bad just using them as a solid anti-chaff platform who can go from 0-100 at the flick of a switch when you get two of Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range in a single turn round 4 onwards.
@@Drone_101 Yeah yeah! They definitely need to change role in some way as the game progresses. I'll have to try a Big Tech Up and see how that goes.
My initial feeling is that they counter mass tech'd or leveled crawlers more efficiently than arc lights and they're not good for much else. It's a little bit expensive unit to fill a weirdly specific niche.
Yeah, they're an answer to a problem we aren't having right now. Maybe I'm missing a key combination of techs to completely change their dynamic but I'm not seeing it.
I've found a strategy that works well with Tarantulas if I start with them but they definitely need some tweaks. Right now I'm using them as a tanky alternative to Arclights and teching armor or field maintenance. Four of them is enough for me to consistently win round 3 and 4 and force a predictable response. The most common counter to it I've seen is teching EMP on Marksmen or Stormcallers if they already have them, Steel Balls if they have good chaff clear, or Scorpion if none of the above.
Yeah, I've been doing a bit more testing and early Field Maintenance feels really good on them as a front line, especially with a HP item or after hitting level 2. Tend to prioritise Mech Rage → Range → AP Bullets if I'm going the carry route. Ever since dropping the Spidermines they've been doing good stuff for me!
Use them with nothing but crawlers and have yourself an army of little gribblies!
Haha, they're actually not bad you know. Think my initial feeling on them has been coloured by Spidermines being a bit feast or famine and the EXP denial really rubbing me up the wrong way. Once I started going Mech Rage → Range → AP Bullets they really perform well but do need a lot of protection from EMP in the late game so don't neglect the Fang line in front of them.
I'll never forget the first time I saw your videos "drn". It was 1945, in a war-torn Germany. My family, barely making it through the hardships of World War II, found a moment of solace when your video filled our humble home. It was more than just a video; it was a miracle. As the video played, something unbelievable happened. My grandmother, whom we had lost to the turmoil, was somehow brought back to life by its power. Thank you "drn"
Haha, feel like I'm missing a key ingredient to understanding this copy pasta :D
Not what I expected. I thought they would throw out a static aoe mine field around/behind them. Something good denying access on the route they've walked. Could add a lot more options to gameplay and promote usage of mobile beacon.
That's a cool idea though I wonder how much of the power budget would need to be in the souped up mines for them to be viable if the mines are left behind in their tracks.
@@Drone_101 No idea! Could make them a temporary purchase like a sentry missile? You could scale the mines. Light wide aoe mines to trigger on chaff. Lone heavy mines to trigger on giant units.So many things to play around with. Bit of a waste just having little bots that run towards the nearest foe.
They are scary but spamming arch lights is cheaper and gets you tech sooner
I don't mind them... I did have a game with a high ranked player where they leveled tarantula and spider mines also level. This was rather difficult to deal with and annoyingly effective.
Yeah I can believe it!
i mean a missile remove the xp aswell, so it makes sense
Seems alright
I'm actually starting to warm up on the Tarantula. My first handful of games I tried forcing Spidermine a lot which didn't work out. But they're actually not bad just using them as a solid anti-chaff platform who can go from 0-100 at the flick of a switch when you get two of Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range in a single turn round 4 onwards.
@@Drone_101i see you put alot of time replying to everyone, dont stress it. Seems like alot of work if you’re not using Chatgpt
The friendly fire on the mines is *killer,* it completely invalidates them as an option in any reasonable sense.
Currently, you have to get range or armor, and they're still just worse than a pair of arclights. They do however have what I call the mustang effect, where they scale really well with upgrades/items. This morning I got a level 6 with uhh... the free level up item. It performed really well.
Yeah, you're right about the scaling I've noticed it too. Think I'd call them a Snowball unit, can get out of control and pump out a lot of damage with upgrades, levels and items. Think my initial assessment was coloured by the poor performance of Spidermines, since taking it off them I've been having a lot of success with triple tech Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range. You'd need to protect them from EMP with boat loads of Fangs or anti-missile devices in the late game but it's working for me.
I played around with them today, and it took me about 2 matches to replace the spider mines with anti air. The mines felt too underwhelming.
Yeah, the mines really coloured my initial assessment of them. Think without the mines they're actually pretty solid. I've been running mainline carry on them with triple tech - Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range. As long as you can control the chaff feed to keep pace with the enemy chaff clear these things can make mincemeat of a lot of the board. Haste Module goes really well on them.
I played against somewhat carry tarantulas today and they can deal a lot of damage and they kinda shut down mass sledges (or I didn't play them right) but scorpions deal with them really well and so do melters if the spiders are high level. But I won with them against hackers earlier so idk what to say, the ladder isn't used to them yet so maybe that's why they're slightly better now or maybe they will actually get better if people figure out how to use them
What techs did the Carry Tarantula's try? I've given Range + Mech Rage a go and Range + AP shots. Haven't braved 3 or 4 techs in one go though. Been meaning to try Armor + Field Maintence and use them as front line emp bait.
@@Drone_101 both I and my opponents usually went range and AP, I usually go AP first tho because I kinda like it, it just feels better, have yet to see mech rage, but I tried out mines in the later rounds, they didn't really affect anything
Hopefully it doesnt have the pathing of a Protoss Dragoon. XD
Hahah, oh my - core memory unlocked D:
It seems that the spider mines are greatly effective against crawlers and not at all great against fangs (can be shot from afar, the former runs at then the latter stops to shoot) and thus cements fangs as the better unit more (salzwerk said crawlers are great early game and bad late game units compared to fangs)
Yeah I quite agree that Crawlers fall off while Fangs can rise to ascendancy as the game goes on.
What is the point of killing the opponents crawlers with mines that kill your own crawlers at the same time too? Like bruh, I paid for this tech to get an advantage
Haha. Bad mine! No! Down! Those Crawlers are mine. My food. My exp. Would love an EMP mine instead of damage mine :D
Hello pretty good video, can you please just talk a bit louder (no whispering) for next ones? Ty my bro
Will do my best! Sorry audio levels are something I've been finding hard to get perfect.
@@Drone_101 No problem, I'm just pretty sensitive to mouth noises, I know it can be sometimes a bit hard specially where you're recording and when
Very VERY tech reliant and being lower tier means you should spam them if you are pumping techs on them. you'll fall in the trap of "how can this be bad when i have 3 techs on something i have 6 of?"
Are they adding something that doesnt already exist in the game? yes with Tech
are they good at their role? yes with tech
can they be a carry / keystone unit? yes with tech
are they worth getting? yes with free unit card but you'll likely need or want something else offered
for their tech
is their anti air tech good? no because it doesnt boost range nor damage vs them
is field maintenance worth it? not unless you have 3 or more levels on 2 of them
Mechanical Rage seems like it also needs to be paired with range or they will run to far forward
Range doesnt seem good by its self unless you are having real problem with keeping behind your chaff, but that can be fixed with better initial placement
AP bullets worth? not sure, it will over kill chaff and get to close to giants without range to really shine at hurting them
After more testing think I'll have to call them a Snowball unit. They can get out of control and pump out a lot of damage with upgrades, levels and items. My initial assessment was coloured by the poor performance of Spidermines, since taking it off them I've been having a lot of success with triple tech Mech Rage, AP Bullets and Range. You need to protect them from EMP with boat loads of Fangs or anti-missile devices in the late game but it's been working for me, even into Fortified Scorpions when I was playing Cost Control, which was a surprise.