as someone thats been around day 1, there was a reality check that led the no into the yes era, people realised that not only was 0 new content boring but it was also killing the game, and the only way to keep osrs alive was to start hitting yes to everything. so in the no era we voted with this in mind "do we need this thing? we dont need it? ah fuck it no" where in the yes era it was more like "does this thing sound terrible? not really i dont see the harm ah fuck it y not"
True. I've played since classic and started OSRS pretty much as soon as it launched after having a break cuz EOC/RS3 was shit. I've played main, iron and currently got 2100 total group iron and I would NOT be here if there was no updates ever. I don't have to agree with everything new, theres stil the old methods of doing stuff, but to not have anything worth waiting would defo make me just quit. Whats the point of killing Bandos for 25,000th time?
My only complaint was not mentioning the partyhat poll which was literally the inverse of every other poll ever. Which was "DO you want us to NOT change how things were?"
I don't think we should get rid of it entirely. The 70% though not perfect, does provide a counter stability. The bigger issue I think is that if we didn't have it and the game really started to go downhill, I think it will be really hard to get back if we need it.
Counter stability? You mean 3k active players at its lowest point? I understand the emotion, but that’s why common sense should decide on content updates, not a bunch of basement coomers.
Yup, every video is a cry for help. I'm convinced. I mean, I can't argue with the results, I love the videos, but your dedication to plough through literally every thing for the video you talk about for the sake of completeness is... admirable :). On a serious note: Great work, professional essay, great editing!
woke dev team who can't deal with a fucking 120,000 vorkath bot running for years on end with BLACK DHIDE and without rigour go woke go broke, game dead, shit updates
Do you trust the investment company that owns them and controls them though? As much as I get what Idyl is saying, I'm 90% sure this game would have been pay-to-win years ago if management knew they didn't have to pass a poll to do it.
@@andrewmorris7394 that's the part they worries me the most about this game. Without some community intervention, osrs would have only lasted 6 months before being monetized to death, at my best guess lol.
I agree some polls on tiny things are silly, but in general polls are essential to get Jagex to listen to feedback and make content right before release. The conversations they generate on Reddit etc are arguably one of their strongest benefits. Sure they could do it anyway but then there'd be massive community unrest.
This is such a good video to watch when you want to learn what happened in the past with the polling system. Can you imagine doing SotE without moving your camera with the middle mouse button and without skipping dialogue with spacebar... I'm dying lmao
Literally quit along with so many others because they kept "improving" things (at the pollsters' behest) and ignoring the real issues. If you cater to the most addicted player base, you're never going to attract new or casual players
As a game designer myself, I guaruntee you that during the "yes" era many ideas got added that would NOT have been added otherwise if it was just up to the devs. When you have a polling system like tht, if one designer on a team likes an idea that other members on the team see huge problems with - or know will take a LONG time to make that could be spent on more important and cool stuff for the game - it's often politically easier to say "well let's just put it up for the poll, if it gets voted down great we gave the idea a shot" instead of pushing back against the passionate designer's idea directly.
I think my biggest issue with polls is that Jagex asks questions with a specific outcome in mind. For example, in December we got "Should a new skill be added to the game", which effectively just asks players if they should get more content. It should have given options with where the content should come from, whether its a new skill, or its a new quests that expand the lore, new raids, new mid level bosses, new skilling methods or just updates to old skills, etc. The next poll then gives 3 options of skills, and then Jagex just ran with the winner of that poll. The two higher voted skills should have been polled against each other
If you are out there in world and you ever feel depressed, down on yourself, and/or not adequate enough. Just remember this: there are people out who voted yes to a new skill and there are people out there who voted for Sailing to be that new skill.
@@groerhahn225 you clearly don't know much about osrs otherwise you'd know that there is more to do than just skilling. Last thing this game needs is another skill to lock other content behind
Ngl, I just lost my sh*t when he was describing the polling changes blog 😂 I love the comedy bits thrown into a serious subject so obviously close to his heart! Great video!
The issue with polling is we, the players, are dumb. People in the "No Era" voted down resizable modes and being able to move the camera with the middle mouse while voting yes to NMZ. Now we vote anything into the game regardless of how good it is or how much info we get, like Muspah, and then get mad that the vague question majority of the community voted yes to isn't what we wanted.
Reminds me how Corp is in the game without the quest that introduces Corp. That should be inexcusable but it's kind of emblematic of the OSRS mindset of raw content over story content.
Before I started playing runescape in 2019 I was a world of warships player and I watched those devs slowly destroy everything that made the game enjoyable to high level players by catering to casuals to the extreme. Coming to osrs where we have polls felt incredible and even though im mostly a yes voter its nice that they at atleast check in with us to see what we want from them, especially with the long form surveys they had around the beginning of skill proposals
Sure, there are "more players than ever before" but I would LOVE to know how many of those players are really playing the game and not a bot or gold farmer.
I must be in that weird in-between age of having started playing RS in 2004 and not being interested in Reddit. I've always voted based on what I think will improve the game. Even if it's just a little bit.
@@Yltimate_ Are you pulling my leg? This video is textbook near identical to the format of a J1mmy video. It's why so many commenters are poking fun at it. Honestly as a new viewer it's pretty distracting. Idyl should do his own thing.
Some things are meant to be polled into the game, typically huge game breaking updates. But if an update has to be done for the integrity of the game, or for slice of life balances, then it shouldn't be polled at all. This video was clearly made mostly to entertain, and not to actually debate and discuss.
I agree, instead of failing specific polls, I think there should be an option in priority polls to say "I want you to not change too much" and "I just want you to fix the game's broken aspects" for instance. Then Jagex can see what direction is most popular, and do the rest. Yes and no polling is almost always a bad idea. There's a reason direct democracies are bad and we elect representatives whose sole job it is to be informed about the polling.
I also think any poll question that basically boils down to “Should we buff thing or release new strong thing?” is always stupid because a vast majority of people are going to vote yes for bigger numbers regardless of whether or not it’s actually good for the game. Granted, Jagex is the one designing the weapons to be polled, and you’d think THEY’D know better… oh well.
People spite voting no are the most insufferable players in the community. Imagine something really interesting and quality of life getting polled and "hard-core" players just say no. Just because. No reason other than "nope, don't care"
TBH, the polling of the new prayer book is a good example of how bad the polling still is. It likely wouldn't pass now that it's gone through polled revisions. But we're in another "yes" era anyways.
Hey man, you've been putting out some good shit recently, including the agility course one. The format and humor style is fantastic. Keep it up, and seek medical attention. Also, polls are my fetish.
Lots of good ideas on polling. I do disagree with the final point though, while the player base can make mistakes in what they want, they should be allowed to make those mistakes and they should continue to have final say in the ways that the game can change. Sometimes in order to get a true consensus on the better approach, you have to go the wrong way first and let the player base really see the implications of that decision. When the GE passed it was widely accepted, but only because the other more experimental idea was tried first and people saw how lacking it was, if the GE was just forced through it would have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and while this approach is slow and temperamental I think that the morale of the player base is closely tied to the agency we all have in the decisions that get made. The devs might be the adults and we might be the children, but we have to be allowed to make our mistakes.
They didn’t poll the removal of multi combat rev caves and that shit was my favorite what’s your thoughts on making poll’s mandatory? Locking accounts that don’t complete the poll. Polling system needs to be more convenient & more efficient. It’s current system is structured poorly and not working. Lock questions to people who don’t qualify the topic
This right here, the best content of any mmo, the revs caves were removed. So many trash things were done to pkers by pve poll voters but the devs straight up said you cant have fun on this one. I have been searching for the rev caves experience in other mmos for years now and nothing compares =[ New worlds organised open world multi pvp has been doing it for me lately.
@@stonic4467 I mean I didn't engage with rev caves and I don't recall if I even answered the rev cave-related polls. With that said... It is worth noting the RWT activities that were going on in the rev caves. There was also that scandal with 1 of the dev team mods some corruption that was related to the rev caves, no?
Eh, I think your solution would force bad ideas to go through. It might be better to implement the idea and then poll the suggested tweaks to said idea, since people don't know what something is like when it's only described and not experienced.
I believe this is EXACTLY what led to RS3 and EoC which ruined the game. The developers should offer ideas, but also keep the community involved,. I think both are important.
Opposed to what he said, for games like this, where the community will likely out age the original developers career, the players will eventually know better. I learned from Obsidian and Blizzard that the roster can change to a point where nobody who was responsible for the original success is left, leaving people who don't know what they are doing.
Honestly, normally when people bring up the little "hey, subscribe" in their videos I file it into the "white noise" section of my brain and don't care, but you got a genuine chuckle out of me. You're an entertainer man, wear it with pride.
Remember when spell icon resizing passed two polls, then pkers bugged the devs until they did a 3rd unannounced poll over a holiday weekend which failed by 0.3% and we were stuck with 'no' for a few years?
I really love polling and it is my fetish. It’s about trust and that’s more important in an MMO and aid argue one or the biggest reasons why Osrs is actually one of if not the most popular mmo of all time and not declining like all of the others. It gives players a sense of ownership and belonging and like jagex actually cares about our thoughts and involvement in the process.
Yeah the game has changed way too much imo. I started playing osrs slightly before CG being introduced and CG is awful content. But it is mandatory due to the bowfa being so good and all end game content is designed around the assumption that you at least have the bowfa. I could just not do end game content I suppose which would be a fair point but I would like to someday have bis gear but due to how much new pvm content they are adding and how drop rates work currently I don't think I ever will get bis. especially if they are releasing new raids every year or so. I quit clash of clans for a very similar reason. It took me forever to get to th 11 with maxed walls etc but then like year after year they just dumped new th levels on us which I couldn't even keep up with botting everyday lmao.
Grand exchange should never be returned. it totally removed the oldschool feeling of thousands of people in camelot, falador, varrock bank selling their goods. G.E is handy, but not nostalgic.
Honestly, I've yet to play an MMO that wasn't eventually ruined by either the dev team or the player base. At the start, no one cares that certain aspects of the game are inconvenient, because they're just having fun. Then they stop having fun, and the game becomes like a chore that they want to do more efficiently. So they ask for small "quality of life" updates, and soon those updates become bigger and bigger until the game is completely unrecognizable. Instead of keeping the game the same and just adding quests and minigames, they try to please everyone, and end up pleasing no one.
I’m very confused about the point you’re trying to make. Are you trying to say “polls are confusing and therefore bad”? Just because you don’t understand why polls are a useful mechanism doesn’t mean they’re detrimental in some way. The entire point of polls is to align the goals of the developers with the player base. Goals of developers and goals of the players change over time, as they should, which is why the results of polls change over time. “This could have been made sooner” or “this could have been better” is a stupid argument about literally nothing. If it’s that important, which is clearly isn’t, vote on it in the next poll. Lol. If there are times when players vote no on everything, that doesn’t mean developers are wasting their time. They know that not all concepts will be accepted, that’s part of the development process.
As much as I also trust the current Dev team a lot, mistakes do still happen and it's great to have Jagex show trust in the community to have a say in it even if they are not forced to listen to it. Getting rid of the polls would be extremely slipper slope and could lead to downwards spiral for the game and if Jagex ever releases any content that's not just something like minor bug fixes, it's going to be massive blow to the trust in the community that can lead to actually good content being spite voted "no" just because some actual content was added to the game without asking from them and that would most definitely lead to new content drying out and would drive away large chunk of the player base. Polls are a form of wordless communication between the community and the devs, words can be hard (especially when there's thousands of variations of them), but voting yes or no to a question is easier. And it will allow Jagex to better understand what's the current preference of the community. Dear youtubers, stop asking them to remove polls. Because every god damn time it's this same story, and general misunderstanding why the polls exist in the first place. Yes, the community has done some really bad voting at times especially early on when everyone was afraid of RS3, but it's because it reflected the needs of the community at the time.
Same as democracy, people who don't know anything about economy, security, and other stuff shouldn't vote, but then it wouldn't be a democracy. Once I hurt that democracy is really imperfect, but it's better than other systems, so we have to try to make it work.
i was there when OSRS released. Not having the middle mouse button move the camera was a serious pain the ass so I jumped on that yes button as soon as i read it. i quit the game for a year and a half when i saw it was voted no. i felt like if there was a bug that had a 1% chance to light your computer on fire anytime you booted up osrs and Jagex polled fixing it the community would vote no.
that is interesting that you couldn't always move your camera around like that. The bad thing is that all pvm content being added into the game now assumes you are moving your camera around a lot to avoid this and that. Moving the camera around a lot via the mouse button causes hand pain after a while, especially when logging 10+ hour gaming sessions in day. I've noticed my hands don't really hurt if I'm not moving my camera around a lot but once I do start moving my camera around a lot it starts causing some problems. one episode of "OSRS Podcasts" channel they also discussed their issues with hand fatigue specifically from middle mouse movement usage so I know I'm not the only one.
You seemed to have missed one of the main driving forces during the no era, we, the OGs of the game felt obligated to vote no for the simple fact of giving jagex the finger, even if it hurt us in the process. Some wounds never heal.
Seriously though, this video is probably the best way to get jagex to actually listen to the player base. Thank you for using your platform to do great things for the game.
My biggest gripe with the osrs playerbase is the seeming *REFUSAL* to allow entirely new content into the game. Yes, I'm still mad about what happened with warding.
Warding failing made me quit for nearly 2 years (and Jagex clearly already working on Sailing and not expecting Shamanism to be so popular leads me to believe these modern polls may be a touch rigged to avoid sunk costs >_>)
@@MaxiemumKarnage What the hell are you on about, did you even check the poll results or are you just talking out of your arse? Sailing was only slightly more popular than Shamanism which is why they RESPECTED the poll result and worked on Sailing FIRST. Shamanism IS NOT cancelled concept and it will be worked on after the Sailing unless some other idea will be more popular once it's topical again. I fucking swear that this community is really bad at reading / understanding the things that they complain about.
I mean there is entirely new content being added to the game. Quests, gear, expanding the world, etc. Skills are a touchy topic though. I'd probably vote no on a Summoning skill for example. Summoning might be interesting but it's a very big change to the fundamental game I'm not exactly keen on Dungeoneering either, Dungeoneering wasn't necessarily bad content but the fact that there was almost entirely a 1-to-1 content relation with agility-shortcut-like-restricted areas. I mean like Mining - Gems, ore for crafting, ore for smithing. Woodcutting - Wood for fletching, firemaking, canoes, crafting, construction. Firemaking - cooking on logs, light sources, some bossing content (wintertodt and Chambers of Xeric) Skills branch out into other parts of the game. A skill which other exists to justify a minigame or activity with random out-of-minigame benefits is weird. Agility is not the same btw. Agility training is in world aside from a few pieces of content. The shortcuts can be a bit random but the influence on run energy regen.
Just a quick note about the trading post, I merched to over 100m from cowhides and barrows armour during 2014 when the game came out and I was fairly rich in comparison, The trading post was basically an alternative to zybezz, a 3rd party website which acted in pretty much the same way, you put a post with ur rsn and people whispered you ingame and it was basically the trading post but on a 3rd party site.
Love me a good greenscreen essay. If anyones saying "hes just copying jimmy", do remember that jimmy is epic and more jimmy style content is good for both us and the people making it. Also polls are my fetish
I appreciate your way of going about this sort of stuff. You educate on the topic then give a great solution based off of previous successes in the game. Keeep the good shit coming dude
Priority Poll: Ban bots & spammers? 10000% Rehaul existing content to make it fun, relevant and/or necessary? 99% Sailing to be an activity/minigame and not a skill? 69.999%
Breaking news!! Content creator wants more content!!!! Consierable bias from your POV, but I don't blame you. You may trust the dev team to be autonomous and more unaccountable to the players today, but would you trust jagex 5 years from now? Lots can and will change. Theres a difference between devs that made content we love and devs that made disasters like spins, eoc, and whatever other abominations exist on rs3.. one dev team morphed into the other from 06-2012. The ONLY thing stopping osrs from turning into a dumpster fire is not the wonderful dev teams we've enjoyed, but instead the polling system and inconvenient accountability jagex has to go through. Polls are the agreement with jagex to get people back to rs to invest their time and money into osrs after their accounts were ruined by eoc. Stop trying to break that agreement and stop throwing us at the mercy of the idiot developers of tomorrow. Thank you!
They've been adding shit without polling at all a lot more recently and every time a new update comes out there's always some game-breaking bug that they have to fix. No, I don't trust the dev team at all.
Polling in the current day is a disaster. The fact that all the new prayers passed shows that there is a huge problem. If a poll can't prevent awful content from being added then the poll serves no purpose.
at one point i think the community was on a good path, but we have split so much as a playerbase that you cannot make everyone happy and because of that we're focusing on content that doesnt help the health of the game and ignoring the obvious problems.
you had me til the very end. dont get rid of poll REQUIREMENTS. im perfectly happy with fine tuning the way that polls happen. and if they err on the cautious side, so be it. i vote yes to most things too but i would sooner everyone vote no for a good update causing us not to get it, than everyone voting no for a bad update and it getting forced in anyways. the current system is slow but necessary. in the same way that slow progression in classic MMORPGs is what makes it work. its all a balance - dont throw it out the window
Loved the video until the end. I wouldn’t encourage the idea Jagex should get rid of the polling yes and no, they already put out what they will and won’t poll. The fact that they continue to poll and ask the community is what makes this game special, I’m glad they’re continuing to ask.
This whole video reminded me of one thing, There was a "Fun Fact" somewhere lost in my noggin the Source, that asked/polled people "What kind of Coffee did you like?" Down to the very specific "Brand" or "Type" of bean used. When the Pollsters were given EXACTLY the coffee they "Polled", they HATED IT. They even went as far as to accuse the survey of "lying about their preferred taste in coffee", because the POLLSTERS weren't being Pretendious about their unique taste, THEY BELIEVED THEY HAD SUPERIOR TASTES. When given "normal coffee".... as in everyday coffee Black and the Pollsters were then given cream and sugar, the Pollsters literally recreated "Normal" and "Generic" coffee, and enjoyed that MORE than the coffee they originally polled for. Basically, People literally do not know fuck all what they want, they just THINK that what they could be getting is actually the BEST there is.
This is basically true for the average person in video games and many other forms of entertainment. There are various other hobbies where people would have a better idea of what they want. The most simple example I can think of is a pen. Think of a simple pen. Now make a bunch of pens but of different sizes and lengths. Change the tip of the pen, and how do you close and open the pen. Does it have a cover, does it twist on one end. Why not have a pen that twists on the other side? How about a little button on one end? As you go for life, you might prefer some of these details and you have more objective reasoning to support these preferences. The most simplest example of this is the thickness of the pen. A pen that is too thin for your hand will often feel uncomfortable to hold. It requires a constant tightened grip, your hand might start to cramp. It gets tired or sore. A pen that is too thick feels awkward to hold and use. When you come across a pen that is too thick or thin, you know exactly what you don't like about the pen (the thickness) and you know exactly what you would prefer (a pen that is a little thicker, but not so thick that it's awkward to hold and use). Not only do you know exactly what you would prefer, but the idea of what you prefer is simple. A pen. Not too thin but not too thick either. In video games, the exactness of what people like or dislike and what they would prefer is often very vague or not exactly clear. Because of that, the average person will know that they like the game or they dislike the game. They might have a rough idea of what they like about it or dislike about it. They generally will struggle to pinpoint the exact details of why they like or dislike it. They will use vague terminology. "It's just boring" "It's feels slow, I'm just sitting there waiting for it to finally complete." "It makes me feel excited." The reason why this happens is because the exact details are much more nuance and abstract in video games. In addition, video games interact with our brain's chemicals much more directly than a lot of other activities in life. Particularly, the reward circuit and the chemical dopamine. And a lot games are designed to trigger the reward circuit because that's one of the more common ways to get our brain hooked onto the game. So effectively the game makes us feel rewarded very often but we don't always know exactly what about the game is rewarding. So we can't pinpoint the exact details. So what happens? Well they think "oh this idea is so interesting, and it makes excited" What is it? A new shiny set of weapons that is a bit stronger than the current strongest weapons. Rinse repeat 20 times later and we have power creep. Other examples - WoW flight paths vs FFXIV teleports. "I don't want to wait 1-5 minutes on a flight path." Valid point. FFXIV's solution - Go to a place, attune to the teleport crystal, then teleport everywheres. Pros cons. Cons - Teleports remove people from actually traveling the worlds. They see less of the content, especially at different angles than before. There's less interaction with the open world. Pros - It's convenient. It's fast. It's get players to their objective quickly. Alternatives - Maybe give the player the option to skip waiting. To facilitate activity in the open world, maybe still let the flight path run its full course even if the player skips. Everyone sees this. Pros cons Pros - Players have the option to not be inconvenienced by having to wait. They get all of the benefits of teleports Because we still have the visual flight path run its course for everyone, the open world looks more active. You seem people on flight paths, arriving at locations and stuff. Players that want to just see the open world as they fly through it get to do that. Maybe they are eating, so it's like eating and watching a movie but it's just scenery. Cons - It might seem weird for a flight path to arrive but then no player appears or something. It takes more work than just teleport. Is this the best option? I don't know. It's an option. I don't work in the video game industry, I work in web and mobile industry. Many differences even if it's both programming. Most people don't think about the consequences unless it's super obvious stuff. That's designer work, realizing how a simple change can cause 15 different side effects in 11 different massive zones and 8 different systems. Not only that, 3 side effects are obvious, 7 of them require decent knowledge and experience building the game, 5 of them were missed until the new feature went through 1 week of internal testing. *A side effect can a bug, or introducing unbalanced parts of gameplay when combined with other features, or power creep, etc. And the best part. There's another 2 side effects for a total of 17. The first 15 is what was predicted or found before the feature was released. All devs expect this to happen. All devs hope there wasn't actually 20 side effects that were slowly revealed by 1 or 2 customers each over the course of 4 years. But this is also unavoidable. So instead we pray the last 3 side effects are not so critical that there was ever a risk of data loss and not so difficult to fix that we need to spend more than a day working on. Needing to spend and entire day is already bad. And then we are caught off guard when there is actually 22 side effects, and 1 of them is a small 1 letter typo that has somehow gone unnoticed for 6 years and baffles us on how the system ever worked until now, and the 22nd side effect requires us to refactor or rewrite a portion of the feature. And that rectangle of text is why features are often much harder to create than people realize.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.15 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qbHbshrA1f0/mqdefault.jpg)
j1mmy has changed a lot with the years.
LOL
bruh i thought the man was going through chimo for a sec
AHHHH AHAHAHAHHAHA
He went bald!
Poor jimmy, he’s not as peppy, bald and lost his beard :(
as someone thats been around day 1, there was a reality check that led the no into the yes era, people realised that not only was 0 new content boring but it was also killing the game, and the only way to keep osrs alive was to start hitting yes to everything. so in the no era we voted with this in mind "do we need this thing? we dont need it? ah fuck it no" where in the yes era it was more like "does this thing sound terrible? not really i dont see the harm ah fuck it y not"
exactly same
True. I've played since classic and started OSRS pretty much as soon as it launched after having a break cuz EOC/RS3 was shit. I've played main, iron and currently got 2100 total group iron and I would NOT be here if there was no updates ever. I don't have to agree with everything new, theres stil the old methods of doing stuff, but to not have anything worth waiting would defo make me just quit. Whats the point of killing Bandos for 25,000th time?
fax. voting yes for all the cool & or unneeded shit in the game. 😉
@@PoorCoyoteeif there were no updates you wouldn't be killing bandos either. GWD wasn't in osrs when it released.
@@lizard1255 well duhh, point stays. Cba to find out what was the last boss 07
My only complaint was not mentioning the partyhat poll which was literally the inverse of every other poll ever. Which was "DO you want us to NOT change how things were?"
I don't think we should get rid of it entirely. The 70% though not perfect, does provide a counter stability. The bigger issue I think is that if we didn't have it and the game really started to go downhill, I think it will be really hard to get back if we need it.
Counter stability? You mean 3k active players at its lowest point?
I understand the emotion, but that’s why common sense should decide on content updates, not a bunch of basement coomers.
Yup, every video is a cry for help. I'm convinced. I mean, I can't argue with the results, I love the videos, but your dedication to plough through literally every thing for the video you talk about for the sake of completeness is... admirable :).
On a serious note: Great work, professional essay, great editing!
I trust this dev team more than i trust the community. That being said, I'm really not confident with every idea being put into the game still.
most of the time they are correct in what they want to do, what they get to do is a different story
woke dev team who can't deal with a fucking 120,000 vorkath bot running for years on end with BLACK DHIDE and without rigour
go woke go broke, game dead, shit updates
Do you trust the investment company that owns them and controls them though?
As much as I get what Idyl is saying, I'm 90% sure this game would have been pay-to-win years ago if management knew they didn't have to pass a poll to do it.
@@andrewmorris7394 that's the part they worries me the most about this game. Without some community intervention, osrs would have only lasted 6 months before being monetized to death, at my best guess lol.
@@maniacmatt7340I personally think the devs caved too much to their owners when they added legal p2w
I agree some polls on tiny things are silly, but in general polls are essential to get Jagex to listen to feedback and make content right before release. The conversations they generate on Reddit etc are arguably one of their strongest benefits. Sure they could do it anyway but then there'd be massive community unrest.
This is such a good video to watch when you want to learn what happened in the past with the polling system. Can you imagine doing SotE without moving your camera with the middle mouse button and without skipping dialogue with spacebar... I'm dying lmao
I do survey methodology for a living. All Jagex needs to do is remove the "no" option. Hope this helps!
Is this because people are resistant to change?
@@ianthompson31they're os players lol, if its easy to new players it should not be lanced
North Korea's lord high pollster, how do you do.
Literally quit along with so many others because they kept "improving" things (at the pollsters' behest) and ignoring the real issues.
If you cater to the most addicted player base, you're never going to attract new or casual players
@@TheCarpenterUnionI mean I think they tried that with rs3 and that game needs a lifeline.
As a game designer myself, I guaruntee you that during the "yes" era many ideas got added that would NOT have been added otherwise if it was just up to the devs. When you have a polling system like tht, if one designer on a team likes an idea that other members on the team see huge problems with - or know will take a LONG time to make that could be spent on more important and cool stuff for the game - it's often politically easier to say "well let's just put it up for the poll, if it gets voted down great we gave the idea a shot" instead of pushing back against the passionate designer's idea directly.
I think my biggest issue with polls is that Jagex asks questions with a specific outcome in mind.
For example, in December we got "Should a new skill be added to the game", which effectively just asks players if they should get more content. It should have given options with where the content should come from, whether its a new skill, or its a new quests that expand the lore, new raids, new mid level bosses, new skilling methods or just updates to old skills, etc.
The next poll then gives 3 options of skills, and then Jagex just ran with the winner of that poll. The two higher voted skills should have been polled against each other
If you are out there in world and you ever feel depressed, down on yourself, and/or not adequate enough. Just remember this: there are people out who voted yes to a new skill and there are people out there who voted for Sailing to be that new skill.
@@LPlusRatioPlusFellOff Oh no new content! D:
@@groerhahn225 Yeah because so many people enjoy skilling on this game that we need another one.
@@LPlusRatioPlusFellOff "Oh no new content". If you hate core gameplay mechanics, why do you even play the game?
@@groerhahn225 you clearly don't know much about osrs otherwise you'd know that there is more to do than just skilling. Last thing this game needs is another skill to lock other content behind
Ngl, I just lost my sh*t when he was describing the polling changes blog 😂
I love the comedy bits thrown into a serious subject so obviously close to his heart! Great video!
As someone who has played since 2013, the polling system has been the wildest ride. Absolute banger of a video
The issue with polling is we, the players, are dumb. People in the "No Era" voted down resizable modes and being able to move the camera with the middle mouse while voting yes to NMZ. Now we vote anything into the game regardless of how good it is or how much info we get, like Muspah, and then get mad that the vague question majority of the community voted yes to isn't what we wanted.
Man, the way the slayer helm was introduced is so sad imo. I love the OG smoking kills quest, and it is forever lost to time. It isn’t the same on rs3
Reminds me how Corp is in the game without the quest that introduces Corp. That should be inexcusable but it's kind of emblematic of the OSRS mindset of raw content over story content.
@@vallytine more like the story wasnt necessary and should be second to the content lol
@@thefakebriskeh this is why we can't have nice things
Before I started playing runescape in 2019 I was a world of warships player and I watched those devs slowly destroy everything that made the game enjoyable to high level players by catering to casuals to the extreme. Coming to osrs where we have polls felt incredible and even though im mostly a yes voter its nice that they at atleast check in with us to see what we want from them, especially with the long form surveys they had around the beginning of skill proposals
best rs content creator currently and no one can convince me otherwise
Can we officially call you budget jimmy now? For real though, keep up the great work man
Sure, there are "more players than ever before" but I would LOVE to know how many of those players are really playing the game and not a bot or gold farmer.
I must be in that weird in-between age of having started playing RS in 2004 and not being interested in Reddit. I've always voted based on what I think will improve the game. Even if it's just a little bit.
Same man. I started 05 and have never even been on reddit
Reddit’s “control” over this game is exaggerated. Most players are not on the subreddit. You’re the more common one :)
@@Girvo747 Jagex literally only gets opinions from Reddit and Twitch chat, what?
@@MaxiemumKarnage Wrong
9:00 in classic UK fashion, if at first you don't like the results, keep holding votes until you get your desired outcome 💀
> 4th New Skill poll
the way you mix humor with information and good insights makes these videos so damn entertaining
Hey its you
It’s J1mmy’s style so you’d likely enjoy him too
@Mac is that entirely true? Idyl and Jim have similarities but not at at all the same style.
Besides being smashing young lads
@@Yltimate_ Are you pulling my leg? This video is textbook near identical to the format of a J1mmy video. It's why so many commenters are poking fun at it.
Honestly as a new viewer it's pretty distracting. Idyl should do his own thing.
Some things are meant to be polled into the game, typically huge game breaking updates. But if an update has to be done for the integrity of the game, or for slice of life balances, then it shouldn't be polled at all.
This video was clearly made mostly to entertain, and not to actually debate and discuss.
Your videos are so good. I’m so happy to have found your channel - thank you for such great content.
More videos like this please! I love when you just break down an aspect of the game and discuss it for 20 minutes. I live for this type of content!
Polls are my fetish. Great video thank you Mr. Egghead.
This was a great video. Best lunch time video in a hot minute
I agree, instead of failing specific polls, I think there should be an option in priority polls to say "I want you to not change too much" and "I just want you to fix the game's broken aspects" for instance. Then Jagex can see what direction is most popular, and do the rest.
Yes and no polling is almost always a bad idea. There's a reason direct democracies are bad and we elect representatives whose sole job it is to be informed about the polling.
We still get polls for priority, though they are instead surveys we do out of the game. Like the recent game jam one.
Idyl is right up there with my favourite funny Scapers, along with 9Rain and J1mmy
U look sick j1mmy, hope u get well soon
i havent played rs in a couple years but i still love complaining about all the new casual players voting :)
I also think any poll question that basically boils down to “Should we buff thing or release new strong thing?” is always stupid because a vast majority of people are going to vote yes for bigger numbers regardless of whether or not it’s actually good for the game. Granted, Jagex is the one designing the weapons to be polled, and you’d think THEY’D know better… oh well.
People spite voting no are the most insufferable players in the community. Imagine something really interesting and quality of life getting polled and "hard-core" players just say no. Just because. No reason other than "nope, don't care"
TBH, the polling of the new prayer book is a good example of how bad the polling still is.
It likely wouldn't pass now that it's gone through polled revisions.
But we're in another "yes" era anyways.
Welp, that wasn't such a good example after all..
if mod mat k can still respect mod reach and be friends with him to this day, then to me he did nothing truly wrong
jed on the otherhand...
Hey man, you've been putting out some good shit recently, including the agility course one. The format and humor style is fantastic. Keep it up, and seek medical attention.
Also, polls are my fetish.
Polls have definitely done more good than bad, it has saved us from some pretty terrible stuff
aside from sailing
You still play this game?
@@Reeces_Pieces Biased
@@Reeces_Pieces Good, people telling "No" to new content is stupid.
@@cyneelyte sailing will be great.
Lots of good ideas on polling. I do disagree with the final point though, while the player base can make mistakes in what they want, they should be allowed to make those mistakes and they should continue to have final say in the ways that the game can change. Sometimes in order to get a true consensus on the better approach, you have to go the wrong way first and let the player base really see the implications of that decision. When the GE passed it was widely accepted, but only because the other more experimental idea was tried first and people saw how lacking it was, if the GE was just forced through it would have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and while this approach is slow and temperamental I think that the morale of the player base is closely tied to the agency we all have in the decisions that get made. The devs might be the adults and we might be the children, but we have to be allowed to make our mistakes.
Quality as per usual keep making great videos Ty
They didn’t poll the removal of multi combat rev caves and that shit was my favorite
what’s your thoughts on making poll’s mandatory? Locking accounts that don’t complete the poll.
Polling system needs to be more convenient & more efficient. It’s current system is structured poorly and not working.
Lock questions to people who don’t qualify the topic
This right here, the best content of any mmo, the revs caves were removed. So many trash things were done to pkers by pve poll voters but the devs straight up said you cant have fun on this one. I have been searching for the rev caves experience in other mmos for years now and nothing compares =[
New worlds organised open world multi pvp has been doing it for me lately.
@@stonic4467 I mean I didn't engage with rev caves and I don't recall if I even answered the rev cave-related polls. With that said...
It is worth noting the RWT activities that were going on in the rev caves. There was also that scandal with 1 of the dev team mods some corruption that was related to the rev caves, no?
yeah 100k accounts online, 80k bots, 10k goldfarmers and the rest normal players (i wish)
n the whales who run 4 accs at a time
Actually obsessed with your channel after discovering you from your agility video. You’re Goated and underrated af.
The baldness is someone linked to the polls....it all makes sense now
Eh, I think your solution would force bad ideas to go through. It might be better to implement the idea and then poll the suggested tweaks to said idea, since people don't know what something is like when it's only described and not experienced.
Agreed, if an idea ends up TERRIBLE then Jagex can just roll it back. Better yet, let us vote to *remove* content like NMZ!
I believe this is EXACTLY what led to RS3 and EoC which ruined the game. The developers should offer ideas, but also keep the community involved,. I think both are important.
Opposed to what he said, for games like this, where the community will likely out age the original developers career, the players will eventually know better. I learned from Obsidian and Blizzard that the roster can change to a point where nobody who was responsible for the original success is left, leaving people who don't know what they are doing.
Honestly, normally when people bring up the little "hey, subscribe" in their videos I file it into the "white noise" section of my brain and don't care, but you got a genuine chuckle out of me. You're an entertainer man, wear it with pride.
All I could focus on during the ad was the plant
@20:39 THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. I couldn't agree more, and this had to be said. Keep it up Idyl!
Remember when spell icon resizing passed two polls, then pkers bugged the devs until they did a 3rd unannounced poll over a holiday weekend which failed by 0.3% and we were stuck with 'no' for a few years?
What I learned from this is that, just like in the real world, we should probably do ranked choice voting
I really love polling and it is my fetish. It’s about trust and that’s more important in an MMO and aid argue one or the biggest reasons why Osrs is actually one of if not the most popular mmo of all time and not declining like all of the others. It gives players a sense of ownership and belonging and like jagex actually cares about our thoughts and involvement in the process.
As a fellow bald RuneScape player, I have to say that God voted NO on whether you’d keep you hair into adulthood.
Great channel, keep it up brother.
I vote 'No' to this poll.
I'd give anything to be able to play fresh OSRS in 2013 again
Yeah the game has changed way too much imo. I started playing osrs slightly before CG being introduced and CG is awful content. But it is mandatory due to the bowfa being so good and all end game content is designed around the assumption that you at least have the bowfa. I could just not do end game content I suppose which would be a fair point but I would like to someday have bis gear but due to how much new pvm content they are adding and how drop rates work currently I don't think I ever will get bis. especially if they are releasing new raids every year or so. I quit clash of clans for a very similar reason. It took me forever to get to th 11 with maxed walls etc but then like year after year they just dumped new th levels on us which I couldn't even keep up with botting everyday lmao.
Grand exchange should never be returned.
it totally removed the oldschool feeling of thousands of people in camelot, falador, varrock bank selling their goods.
G.E is handy, but not nostalgic.
Next sponsorship should be for whoever taught you those incredible timetravel transitions
7:08 rooftop courses were December 2013, not 2014
thanks for clearing that up
Honestly, I've yet to play an MMO that wasn't eventually ruined by either the dev team or the player base. At the start, no one cares that certain aspects of the game are inconvenient, because they're just having fun. Then they stop having fun, and the game becomes like a chore that they want to do more efficiently. So they ask for small "quality of life" updates, and soon those updates become bigger and bigger until the game is completely unrecognizable. Instead of keeping the game the same and just adding quests and minigames, they try to please everyone, and end up pleasing no one.
I’m very confused about the point you’re trying to make. Are you trying to say “polls are confusing and therefore bad”? Just because you don’t understand why polls are a useful mechanism doesn’t mean they’re detrimental in some way.
The entire point of polls is to align the goals of the developers with the player base. Goals of developers and goals of the players change over time, as they should, which is why the results of polls change over time. “This could have been made sooner” or “this could have been better” is a stupid argument about literally nothing. If it’s that important, which is clearly isn’t, vote on it in the next poll. Lol.
If there are times when players vote no on everything, that doesn’t mean developers are wasting their time. They know that not all concepts will be accepted, that’s part of the development process.
As much as I also trust the current Dev team a lot, mistakes do still happen and it's great to have Jagex show trust in the community to have a say in it even if they are not forced to listen to it. Getting rid of the polls would be extremely slipper slope and could lead to downwards spiral for the game and if Jagex ever releases any content that's not just something like minor bug fixes, it's going to be massive blow to the trust in the community that can lead to actually good content being spite voted "no" just because some actual content was added to the game without asking from them and that would most definitely lead to new content drying out and would drive away large chunk of the player base.
Polls are a form of wordless communication between the community and the devs, words can be hard (especially when there's thousands of variations of them), but voting yes or no to a question is easier. And it will allow Jagex to better understand what's the current preference of the community.
Dear youtubers, stop asking them to remove polls.
Because every god damn time it's this same story, and general misunderstanding why the polls exist in the first place. Yes, the community has done some really bad voting at times especially early on when everyone was afraid of RS3, but it's because it reflected the needs of the community at the time.
Same as democracy, people who don't know anything about economy, security, and other stuff shouldn't vote, but then it wouldn't be a democracy.
Once I hurt that democracy is really imperfect, but it's better than other systems, so we have to try to make it work.
i was there when OSRS released. Not having the middle mouse button move the camera was a serious pain the ass so I jumped on that yes button as soon as i read it. i quit the game for a year and a half when i saw it was voted no.
i felt like if there was a bug that had a 1% chance to light your computer on fire anytime you booted up osrs and Jagex polled fixing it the community would vote no.
that is interesting that you couldn't always move your camera around like that. The bad thing is that all pvm content being added into the game now assumes you are moving your camera around a lot to avoid this and that. Moving the camera around a lot via the mouse button causes hand pain after a while, especially when logging 10+ hour gaming sessions in day. I've noticed my hands don't really hurt if I'm not moving my camera around a lot but once I do start moving my camera around a lot it starts causing some problems. one episode of "OSRS Podcasts" channel they also discussed their issues with hand fatigue specifically from middle mouse movement usage so I know I'm not the only one.
every vid you do pushes into a slightly unknown direction. its all so good, keep exploring ideas and pushing the content sphere further
But that is how it starts.... one minute they are adding the cute little animals, and the next its EOC all over again.
Exactly
You seemed to have missed one of the main driving forces during the no era, we, the OGs of the game felt obligated to vote no for the simple fact of giving jagex the finger, even if it hurt us in the process. Some wounds never heal.
Seriously though, this video is probably the best way to get jagex to actually listen to the player base. Thank you for using your platform to do great things for the game.
we do still get priority polls, it's just done through Google Forms rather than the in-game client
Vote Idyl for president.
My biggest gripe with the osrs playerbase is the seeming *REFUSAL* to allow entirely new content into the game.
Yes, I'm still mad about what happened with warding.
Warding failing made me quit for nearly 2 years (and Jagex clearly already working on Sailing and not expecting Shamanism to be so popular leads me to believe these modern polls may be a touch rigged to avoid sunk costs >_>)
@@MaxiemumKarnage What the hell are you on about, did you even check the poll results or are you just talking out of your arse? Sailing was only slightly more popular than Shamanism which is why they RESPECTED the poll result and worked on Sailing FIRST. Shamanism IS NOT cancelled concept and it will be worked on after the Sailing unless some other idea will be more popular once it's topical again.
I fucking swear that this community is really bad at reading / understanding the things that they complain about.
I mean there is entirely new content being added to the game. Quests, gear, expanding the world, etc.
Skills are a touchy topic though. I'd probably vote no on a Summoning skill for example. Summoning might be interesting but it's a very big change to the fundamental game
I'm not exactly keen on Dungeoneering either, Dungeoneering wasn't necessarily bad content but the fact that there was almost entirely a 1-to-1 content relation with agility-shortcut-like-restricted areas.
I mean like Mining - Gems, ore for crafting, ore for smithing. Woodcutting - Wood for fletching, firemaking, canoes, crafting, construction. Firemaking - cooking on logs, light sources, some bossing content (wintertodt and Chambers of Xeric)
Skills branch out into other parts of the game. A skill which other exists to justify a minigame or activity with random out-of-minigame benefits is weird.
Agility is not the same btw. Agility training is in world aside from a few pieces of content. The shortcuts can be a bit random but the influence on run energy regen.
I love that the sponsor of this video is my hometown college. Right on!
Just a quick note about the trading post, I merched to over 100m from cowhides and barrows armour during 2014 when the game came out and I was fairly rich in comparison, The trading post was basically an alternative to zybezz, a 3rd party website which acted in pretty much the same way, you put a post with ur rsn and people whispered you ingame and it was basically the trading post but on a 3rd party site.
Love me a good greenscreen essay. If anyones saying "hes just copying jimmy", do remember that jimmy is epic and more jimmy style content is good for both us and the people making it.
Also polls are my fetish
I appreciate your way of going about this sort of stuff. You educate on the topic then give a great solution based off of previous successes in the game. Keeep the good shit coming dude
Priority Poll:
Ban bots & spammers? 10000%
Rehaul existing content to make it fun, relevant and/or necessary? 99%
Sailing to be an activity/minigame and not a skill? 69.999%
How many of them "active" players are bots though...
Breaking news!! Content creator wants more content!!!! Consierable bias from your POV, but I don't blame you.
You may trust the dev team to be autonomous and more unaccountable to the players today, but would you trust jagex 5 years from now? Lots can and will change.
Theres a difference between devs that made content we love and devs that made disasters like spins, eoc, and whatever other abominations exist on rs3.. one dev team morphed into the other from 06-2012.
The ONLY thing stopping osrs from turning into a dumpster fire is not the wonderful dev teams we've enjoyed, but instead the polling system and inconvenient accountability jagex has to go through.
Polls are the agreement with jagex to get people back to rs to invest their time and money into osrs after their accounts were ruined by eoc.
Stop trying to break that agreement and stop throwing us at the mercy of the idiot developers of tomorrow. Thank you!
Considerable*
They've been adding shit without polling at all a lot more recently and every time a new update comes out there's always some game-breaking bug that they have to fix. No, I don't trust the dev team at all.
Polling in the current day is a disaster. The fact that all the new prayers passed shows that there is a huge problem. If a poll can't prevent awful content from being added then the poll serves no purpose.
I love Idyls green screen lol
Holy shit I remember the trading post. Crazy to believe that was 8-10 years ago where does the time go
good video lidl jimmy
I already loved the green screen talks from J1mmy and i love to see another rs creator do the same keep it up with the good work
For a moment I was very confused about what happened to j1mmy's face
@@taatuu25makeover mage
Adding a poll for changing polls? Genius
This video bangs bro
at one point i think the community was on a good path, but we have split so much as a playerbase that you cannot make everyone happy and because of that we're focusing on content that doesnt help the health of the game and ignoring the obvious problems.
I forget where I heard it but it feels very relevant to this video.
"Players don't know what they want, but they'll tell you what they hate."
Polls work as intended. If something fails that means that not enough players wanted it.
I think we should goi back to 2013 polls
i didnt even watch the video yet and im sending a like.
idyl is just THAT good.
Only knew you as the cool plugin guy, but this video was so good. Subscribed, would love more videos like this! (poll are my fetish)
you had me til the very end. dont get rid of poll REQUIREMENTS. im perfectly happy with fine tuning the way that polls happen. and if they err on the cautious side, so be it. i vote yes to most things too but i would sooner everyone vote no for a good update causing us not to get it, than everyone voting no for a bad update and it getting forced in anyways. the current system is slow but necessary. in the same way that slow progression in classic MMORPGs is what makes it work. its all a balance - dont throw it out the window
My guy was definitely born in the 90s if he's rocking the New Found Glory poster in the background lol
Lookin yolked bro, great video
Your videos are long and yet, when they end, I’m left wanting more. Keep it up!
Loved the video until the end. I wouldn’t encourage the idea Jagex should get rid of the polling yes and no, they already put out what they will and won’t poll. The fact that they continue to poll and ask the community is what makes this game special, I’m glad they’re continuing to ask.
That NFG album is a classic. What else you have in the vault?
Ideal that video informed about this game. I will give it a try and these polls you speak of because I'm now so informed!
thank you for posting. best utoob-r.
This whole video reminded me of one thing, There was a "Fun Fact" somewhere lost in my noggin the Source, that asked/polled people "What kind of Coffee did you like?" Down to the very specific "Brand" or "Type" of bean used. When the Pollsters were given EXACTLY the coffee they "Polled", they HATED IT. They even went as far as to accuse the survey of "lying about their preferred taste in coffee", because the POLLSTERS weren't being Pretendious about their unique taste, THEY BELIEVED THEY HAD SUPERIOR TASTES.
When given "normal coffee".... as in everyday coffee Black and the Pollsters were then given cream and sugar, the Pollsters literally recreated "Normal" and "Generic" coffee, and enjoyed that MORE than the coffee they originally polled for.
Basically, People literally do not know fuck all what they want, they just THINK that what they could be getting is actually the BEST there is.
This is basically true for the average person in video games and many other forms of entertainment.
There are various other hobbies where people would have a better idea of what they want.
The most simple example I can think of is a pen.
Think of a simple pen. Now make a bunch of pens but of different sizes and lengths. Change the tip of the pen, and how do you close and open the pen. Does it have a cover, does it twist on one end. Why not have a pen that twists on the other side? How about a little button on one end?
As you go for life, you might prefer some of these details and you have more objective reasoning to support these preferences.
The most simplest example of this is the thickness of the pen.
A pen that is too thin for your hand will often feel uncomfortable to hold. It requires a constant tightened grip, your hand might start to cramp. It gets tired or sore.
A pen that is too thick feels awkward to hold and use.
When you come across a pen that is too thick or thin, you know exactly what you don't like about the pen (the thickness) and you know exactly what you would prefer (a pen that is a little thicker, but not so thick that it's awkward to hold and use). Not only do you know exactly what you would prefer, but the idea of what you prefer is simple. A pen. Not too thin but not too thick either.
In video games, the exactness of what people like or dislike and what they would prefer is often very vague or not exactly clear.
Because of that, the average person will know that they like the game or they dislike the game. They might have a rough idea of what they like about it or dislike about it. They generally will struggle to pinpoint the exact details of why they like or dislike it.
They will use vague terminology.
"It's just boring"
"It's feels slow, I'm just sitting there waiting for it to finally complete."
"It makes me feel excited."
The reason why this happens is because the exact details are much more nuance and abstract in video games.
In addition, video games interact with our brain's chemicals much more directly than a lot of other activities in life. Particularly, the reward circuit and the chemical dopamine. And a lot games are designed to trigger the reward circuit because that's one of the more common ways to get our brain hooked onto the game. So effectively the game makes us feel rewarded very often but we don't always know exactly what about the game is rewarding. So we can't pinpoint the exact details.
So what happens?
Well they think "oh this idea is so interesting, and it makes excited"
What is it? A new shiny set of weapons that is a bit stronger than the current strongest weapons.
Rinse repeat 20 times later and we have power creep.
Other examples - WoW flight paths vs FFXIV teleports.
"I don't want to wait 1-5 minutes on a flight path."
Valid point.
FFXIV's solution - Go to a place, attune to the teleport crystal, then teleport everywheres.
Pros cons.
Cons -
Teleports remove people from actually traveling the worlds.
They see less of the content, especially at different angles than before.
There's less interaction with the open world.
Pros -
It's convenient. It's fast. It's get players to their objective quickly.
Alternatives -
Maybe give the player the option to skip waiting.
To facilitate activity in the open world, maybe still let the flight path run its full course even if the player skips. Everyone sees this.
Pros cons
Pros - Players have the option to not be inconvenienced by having to wait. They get all of the benefits of teleports
Because we still have the visual flight path run its course for everyone, the open world looks more active. You seem people on flight paths, arriving at locations and stuff.
Players that want to just see the open world as they fly through it get to do that. Maybe they are eating, so it's like eating and watching a movie but it's just scenery.
Cons -
It might seem weird for a flight path to arrive but then no player appears or something.
It takes more work than just teleport.
Is this the best option? I don't know. It's an option. I don't work in the video game industry, I work in web and mobile industry. Many differences even if it's both programming.
Most people don't think about the consequences unless it's super obvious stuff. That's designer work, realizing how a simple change can cause 15 different side effects in 11 different massive zones and 8 different systems. Not only that, 3 side effects are obvious, 7 of them require decent knowledge and experience building the game, 5 of them were missed until the new feature went through 1 week of internal testing.
*A side effect can a bug, or introducing unbalanced parts of gameplay when combined with other features, or power creep, etc.
And the best part. There's another 2 side effects for a total of 17. The first 15 is what was predicted or found before the feature was released. All devs expect this to happen.
All devs hope there wasn't actually 20 side effects that were slowly revealed by 1 or 2 customers each over the course of 4 years. But this is also unavoidable.
So instead we pray the last 3 side effects are not so critical that there was ever a risk of data loss and not so difficult to fix that we need to spend more than a day working on. Needing to spend and entire day is already bad.
And then we are caught off guard when there is actually 22 side effects, and 1 of them is a small 1 letter typo that has somehow gone unnoticed for 6 years and baffles us on how the system ever worked until now, and the 22nd side effect requires us to refactor or rewrite a portion of the feature.
And that rectangle of text is why features are often much harder to create than people realize.
Why do all those "no's" look like "yes"?? Like.. 76% yes and 24% no... how is that a no?