My main speakers are Yamaha NS 1000M from 1979. The model originated in 1974 and carried on through to 1997 or so. When used with a good to great amp and accurate subwoofer system, the NS1000M is probably the best vintage monitor money can buy. I've had tons of speakers from big horn systems, JBL, ESS, Rogers, KEF, B&W, electrostatics, nearly all of the New England producers to home brew, etc and can say with utmost sincerity that the Yamahas still can amaze, perform and outperform many modern speakers. Although the tragedy of those who died as a result of manufacturing the deposited beryllium is worth honoring.
I've heard the Focal beryllium tweeters. They sound like they are from another planet or from the future. Once you hear them you really won't believe what you're hearing. Stunning
Paradigm Signature speakers had BE tweeters dating back to 2007. One of my favorites that have survived in my system longer than any other speakers. Love 'em.
Love my Focal Sopra’s. I was fearing some beryllium bashing like you hear more and more. Soft-dome suddenly seems to be the way to go according to many. A good beryllium implementation still is a valid solution. Love this guys knowledge.
Focal speakers are very popular but are known for a certain sound. You and many people like it. Others not so much. Perhaps the beryllium "sound" is part of what you like.
Not sure if the latest iteration of Focals has this so called Focal sound. I admit that it took some really good electronics to bring the best out of them. Sometimes they where a tad harsh before, but all that disappeared with fine gear. So nothing to do with the speakers. Now they are very neutral, to my ears anyway. But yeah everyone has a preference. Not everybody’s favorite color is red.
@Kris Moodley Hi here in mexico we made voice coils from cooper silver and gold. Hand made vacuum tube amps with silver soldering. But to expensive for the Normal. Consumers.
I have Revel Ultima Salon 2 speakers and before these Paradigm Signature 8’s both use beryllium tweeters. To my ears, these are fantastic speakers both designed by the one and only Floyd Toole.
Thanks for a good presentation Chris. I'm a pro audio engineer & musician-- I've noticed for many years that tweeters are always the most difficult for designers/manufacturers to get right. As in they're never Right. And I'm including ribbon tweeters! Until Focal came out with their Beryllium tweeters in the early 2000's. Sat me back in my chair-- I was listening to perfect tweeters! I've been out of the loop now (old & in the way) so haven't kept up with the latest and haven't heard TAD's version. They're a great company so I'll have to look them up.
I just bought focal trio6 BEs. Amazing high end. High end like silk - ive heard people say they mix harsh high end because of the softness, but i believe thats because they mix to something other than the speaker itself. You must know the BE sound to mix to it - but if you do then man can you mix for endless hours without worrying about fatigue. Its such an amazing thing.
I have the Solo6 Be and I agree. Still have not heard anything sound more realistic and hyper detailed! Do not like typical high end colorations of sounds.
Absolutely! He clearly knows his stuff, very informative! That Chris is not always looking into the camera for me means that he is looking for the right way to explain the subject he is telling about. Function over form is good for me.
Beryllium domes are the ultimate metal dome material. The 'issues' with beryllium tweeters I have encountered in the past have had to do with the application of the wide surrounds that are popular now in tweeters; the resonance of the surround becomes significant when the dome has no discernible breakup in the bandwidth of interest. Beryllium isn't able to solve all of the problems encountered in a moving coil tweeter, such as viscous damping losses caused by surround coatings and ferrofluid, disposing of the back wave, controlling inductance, or losslessly transmitting the coil force to the dome, but it does mostly solve the issue of diaphragm breakup. A planar ribbon or aluminum ribbon tweeter is still faster and more detailed to my ear, with better dynamic linearity at low SPLs. Also the very high cost of a beryllium dome tweeter limits its appeal; in one application for a 16mm beryllium dome, there wasn't a measurable or audible difference between beryllium and Harman's CMMD (deep anodized aluminum) dome material, but the beryllium diaphragm was 10X the cost of CMMD. The chief issue with metal dome tweeters is that even though the breakup is pushed out of the audible bandwidth, it usually isn't pushed far "enough" outside the audible bandwidth not to have some audible effect - my hypothesis is that this is due to heterodyning with other ultrasonic frequencies and creating beat frequencies that are audible; this is similar to how the original ATC LRAD speaker produced sound (amplitude modulated ultrasound) so I am convinced it has some audible effect even in "quieter" home audio speakers. One of the best sounding commercially available tweeters of any type that I have ever heard, at any price, is the Scan-Speak Illuminator beryllium dome, and a custom version of this tweeter using the Revelator ring neo motor (made for Thiel's 40.3 speaker) was the best performing and measuring moving coil tweeter I have ever heard, period, although I suspect Magico's DLC coated version of this tweeter was even further superior in some barely audible way.
It’s great PS audio is going deeper into these important topics. When you look at a total audio system and how money are spent on the BOM, as a consumer, I much rather see an expensive superior cone material than a US$1000 snake oil power cable.
I agree but good cables are always needed for a system to sound good. Although there's no reason for them to cost tons. Unless it's to fool people and make the seller rich.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I’ve been involved in running one of the largest multi billion dollar consumer electronics business in the USA and indeed understand the value proposition between what you pay, the BOM cost of the parts involved, manufacturing cost, logistical cost, duties, license fees, sales cost, marketing cost, R&D cost, profit margins and so on. Yes, some times what you pay is factors more than the BOM cost for some fair reasons.
The new KLH recently produced the Ultimate One headphones that have 50mm, pure Beryllium drivers. I bought a pair (0nly $300) over a year ago and have been pleased with them even though I have difficulty being pleased with headphones. Unlike planar headphones, the Ultimate Ones have an outstanding bass response. Unlike some brands such as Sennheiser (those sound too dark for me), they have a lively top-end that does not sound too bright (never harsh, as some metal tweeters can sound), and unlike some other brands (such as Grado), the Ultimate Ones do not have a midrange that is too forward. Low impedance (32 ohms) and low price, with pure Beryllium drivers that sound nice, made them a good choice for me, though I still prefer to listen to my speakers when I can.
Hi Chris. Great discussion on speaker tech! I have the TAD ET 701 and the TD 2001 compression drivers. I agree they were implemented well. They do require good electronics to sound smooth.
My only experience with beryllium has been with Focal’s Stellia headphones. The headphones are remarkably dynamic and detailed and I understand this to be a result of using the material. I’m hoping you guys add a headphone amp to your amplifiers or sprout one day.
Focal has used Beryllium in their tweeters for several years. They're tweeters are highly resolving. I don't know if using this material is the gateway opiate to better sounding higher frequencies. There's so many factors, including crossovers, mating with the other drivers, the cabinet influence on the sound, etc.
If berrylium is done right in a tweeter...there hard to beat. But has to be done right and paired with the right amps. Soft domes have came a long ways and ive heard Soft domes that sounded more bright and sharp than metal ones. Dont always think a speaker will sound a certain way with certain materials. Usually you can categorize speakers by material but dont believe everything you hear
Beryllium is interesting... "The single primordial beryllium isotope 9Be also undergoes a (n,2n) neutron reaction with neutron energies over about 1.9 MeV, to produce 8Be, which almost immediately breaks into two alpha particles. Thus, for high-energy neutrons, beryllium is a neutron multiplier, releasing more neutrons than it absorbs."
Yamaha NSF-1, NSA(anniversary)10000 are so far beyond what we even see today and their response is astounding. The midrange, long crystal 4" beryllium midrange is perfect from 500 to 5K and can go both higher and lower. Extremely fast and perfect piston, I have heard thee anniversary series which the technology is rarely even seen today except for some of the better components of the caps but few use quality caps. +/- .5 or .75 depending on who did the testing from 38-40K is beyond most anything ever made. The NSF-1 is demanding, as well as the anniversary unit far far more money and going up along with their VFET Amplifiers and those who were capable of making components that are toooo expensive regardless of their superiority such as the Sansui top of the line, Harman Kardon XX Citation which is now over 100K, the Grand Integra and the like. Don't even start on the Trio Laboratory series as engineers are now finding that their findings to be absolutely accurate with only Spectral in the picture here now.
@@ghostrecon3214 To qote Zach Merbach: "Our driver is made of 85% PEN (polyethylene naphthalate) with 15% Beryllium coated on the surface to achieve a punchy, revealing, never harsh sonic spectrum."
I had a set of Focal speakers and originally I really liked them however as I got older they sounded much brighter. Don't think there was a problem with the speakers think it was my ears getting older. Do you think Beryllium can make a speaker sound too bright? Thanks for the video
Would anyone recommend using beryllium drivers for pro audio in a 215 style midtop application? Looking at radian's 1.4" beryllium cd's I like the idea of hifi at pa levels, those cd's are rated down to 500hz, if I get a horn thats good down to 700hz and keep the cd's at 1100hz and up I'd imagine I could keep them going at war volume all night with appropriate subs matching the 215 cabs, thoughts? Or is aluminum the safer and cheaper bet?
I always enjoy your videos I find them very informative. Young's modulus of elasticity reflects the point where a material moves from elastic deformation to plastic deformation. Its the slope of the curve before plastic deformation that your referring to, I'd be curious to see the curves compared. BTW stainless steel is not a defined element/material its an alloy and its properties are subject its composition.
I am with the horn tweeter crowd. The human ear is very sensitive to distortion, especially in the mid-range of ~300hz to 5khz. And distortion is a function of diaphragm travel, ie the further the diaphragm has to move, the more distortion; so if you minimize diaphragm movement with a horn, you will also minimize distortion. Of course now you have to engineer a suitable phase plug for a compression driver and also a horn. Plus in the manufacturing-level you have to manufacture a phase-plug, in the traditional compression drivers that is machined. Today they are of molded plastic and fiberglass which costs way less. In past research has shown that there are little differences in dispersion between the dome and the cone radiator tweeters, but is a function of driver diameter/size. For best sounds, a horn and compression driver are the way to go, but you pay the price. Speaker manufacturers are in business to make a profit. When you put huge amounts of money into R&D and also in manufacturing, they have to charge the customers appropriately. At retail a typical "run of the mill" compression driver and horn can cost way more than the comparable direct radiator because of the r&d and increased manufacturing costs. Pioneers TAD line is a good example of SotA in beryllium and titanium materials and driver technology, and of course of course the cost of that technology is in stratosphere.
I own a pair of Master and Dynamic MW65 headphones with Be drivers and they resolve really well on high frequencies, but I do hear a more bright sound out of them when compared to my many other headphones. I considered getting a pair of speakers with Be tweeters, but my concern is they may be a bit harsh as well. Must find a place to demo first
Look out! Chris is taking over! Well I used to do speaker repair, so I for one am enjoying the speaker talks. Hey Chris, are you familiar with Gallo Acoustics' Cylindrical Diaphram Tweeter? Pretty darn spiffy, that one! ; )
Everyone hears things differently. For me, Beryllium tweeters sound bright and edgy. They lack a smooth natural sound. I have tinnitus and am sensitive to bright harsh sound. The best sounding tweeters I have heard are the Dynaudio Esotar soft dome tweeters but others may like a brighter, more aggressive top end.
Hi Chris, is the beryllium used in tweeters, dangerous over time to the end user or person manufacturer the tweeter or is it the actual amount that is hazardous to your lungs? This was a question that I was asked and I took a guess by saying it was the amount? Then I was asked what if you attempted to fix the beryllium tweeter itself, could you disturb the beryllium enough to cause the damage to your lungs for which I had no answer.
Another method to get breakup up to frequencies beyond audibility, is to use ring radiators. Like the incredible SB Acoustics, Vifa or Scan Speak drivers. Ring radiators eliminate bell resonance altogether. No need for expensive berylium. They do have other problems (there's no free lunch in speaker design), but those problems tend to be easier to deal with, and less audible.
Love the speaker info, Chris. I'm kind of a speaker-a-holic! I've built and bought several pairs of speakers over the years. I have 6 pair in my garage alone right now! (My wife's going to KILL me if I get any more)! I'm just addicted to finding the perfect sound!
May I recommend the Gallo Acoustics Strada speakers, mounted low with a low listening position (preferably nearfield), combined with two DIY H-frame subwoofers? Your journey may come to an end with that set-up. ~_^
My first experience with that metal was in our use for inertial gyro navigators. Never imagined it to be used in speaker drivers. What are the chances that as a speaker driver it can pose a hazard?
Essentially zero, unless you lick your domes every day! It's only during machining / processing that fine dust is readily created, which is harmful if inhaled.
Chris get video, would like to hear your opinion on ribbon tweeters. i realize the are several different types. i have a 30 year old pair of speaker with cobalt ribbon tweeters and they are still hard to beat the have a really big fq. range. From what i see with the AN3's it looks like PS audio likes ribbons as well.
After purchasing the focal utopia headphones recently I have been more interested in beryllium. Those little drivers in the utopia are the cutting edge in dynamic headphones. Just my option.
I remember working on a pair of Yamaha NS-1000's that had the drivers you mention and the sound was very clean but not very dynamic. The drivers of course are not blow out proof.
I have a pair. They are rated for no more than 100 watts. If you run into clipping, the tweeters don't like it. I drive mine with a 60 watt Marantz. Play non compressed natural recordings, not stuff the product of the CD Loudness war and you will be mine. I bought mine new and still have them. Only added a subwoofer. The cabinet is a huge part of the speaker. Have you tried knocking on wood on those? Those are in a non resonant cabinet. I bought the companion speaker stands so mine sit about a foot above the floor.
Forget this Yamaha...sound very bright and demanding for electronic, look for titanium Diatone DS-77HR, much better...I have beryllium Yamaha home and had Diatones 👌
@@thunderbird66613 you can buy also other Diatone models like ds-501/503 etc..very good...Yamaha has very weak bass (ns-1000x little better) and not so good for all music types. I would buy Diatone or higher Onkyo Monitor Japanese only models, very very good speakers, Monitor 2001 could be better than NS-2000 in music and build quality
“Mix up a little more bass here, then we can put us a little treble right in there. See how you can move things around? You have unlimited power on this canvas -- can literally, literally move mountains”
I'm surprised more designers aren't using magnesium. It's light, stif, strong etc. Keep away from open flame though. But it's shapeable, pretty stable and acoustically neutral.
I agree, Seas excel woofers is loved for that reason, but they have an issue where they can crack when the are +10 years, not sure why, but yes super low distortion.
@@kentlarsen578 Interesting, the 1935 Bugatti Aerolithe's body panels were entirely made of magnesium, complete with compound curves. Not prone to cracking after all these years.
@@Joshualbm interesting yes, maybe the panels are so much thicker and not working as pistons makes the difference. As a membrane material you will try and go for the lowest mass unless its a subwoofer driver, so it might just be thar Seas needs to add some material to make them last forever. But I will say that I haven't heard anybody complain about it, they typical just take it as a cost of the fantastic response, and very few materials can rival it I agree.
Because magnesium corrodes, I know the Seas Excel drivers suffered, some were so bad the voice coils popped out, Seas denies all responsibility, but plenty of proof with pictures out there.
Thank you verry much, this was verry interesting . I have both old pioneer speakers hpm 910 with the berillium tweeters. Do they where good that time?? because they maded in beginning 80ties . That time they costed more then 1000 euro. that was verry much monney in the 80ties ! Thanks for the vid
I have been using TAD's for more than 25years already. I am not turning back. The only tweeters I like more is plasma but they are too in-efficient to match with compression horn.
Thanks for the video Chris. I heard that Yamaha dumped beryllium and moved to zylon because they viewed the risk of cancer from beryllium to be very high. Since I was in the market for a speakers that I know uses Beryllium, it has got me worried if over time this beryllium can start to leech out into the air and cause cancer. Family is priority... What are your thoughts about beryllium leeching over time from the tweeters.
cp070476 Well Chris knows his stuff and PS Audio take an uncompromising approach so it is always a possibility. My guess is PS audio will make a great speaker that is aesthetic and not as expensive as the ATC top of the line beast. Unless you are Lenny Kravitz or Mark Knopfler the SCM 300 is rather overkill.
I found most beryllium tweeters gave terrible harsh high end with tons of vocal sibilance, only really works if you can compensate with the rest of the system to somehow subdue the harshness.
I have a set of NS2000 by Yamaha which have the Beryllium Tweeters and Mid Ranges. Having worked in professional sound with recording engineers I can tell you that there are signal chain distortions which are unmasked by the a BE tweeter. The operative word is unmasked. I lent a pair of very high end studio monitors to an engineer who was using KRK "pro" monitors to use overnight. He was very happy with his recording until he heard them in our monitors. He had never gone to bed but listed to all of his recordings through the night. He looked like hell the next day. He had the startling revelation that speakers can mask distortion.
B&W started using Beryllium in their Tweeters close to 15 years ago and they were absolutely brittle. The domes didn't bend or dent, they crumbled. It didn't happen often but we did received some speakers with shattered tweeters (I worked for a B&W dealer). It was a problem unpacking a 200lb speaker at a customer's house only to discover the tweeter dome had turned to dust.
Mylar is 4.5 grams per square meter. And it is used in electrostatic loudspeakers. A large electrostatic speaker has only a total of 3 grams moving mass. Please note that includes the bass (woofer) part that goes down to 30 Hz with minimum distortion.
Aluminum/Magnesium alloy is superior to Beryllium for a tweeter. Beryllium in unnecessarily expensive, toxic an fatiguing over longer listening sessions
I disagree that copper beryllium does not a good tweeter make. it's like saying paper is not a good material for woofers ( which I prefer). Young's modulus is twice that of aluminum. I have listened to several BeCu tweeters and the sound was very good.
I agree. I just picked up a pair of LSA 10 Statement speakers, which have copper beryllium tweeters. They still have some further breaking in, but I am hearing things in familiar recordings my previous KEF ls50s just buried.
I like this guy. Great information about beryllium wannabe materials out there. I was noticing the copper-beryllium tweeters coming out of China recently. How could a soft metal like copper do anything but ruin the benefits of an ultra stiff metal like beryllium?
Get a partner to talk to, get some eye contact with the camera and these will be perfect. Good start, speaking in front of a camera is not easy, and the audio nerd in me loves the step up from Paul's (also excellent) talks.
@Fat Rat I'm sensitive to harshness and listening fatigue. When I think back on some demos, I thought about realism and how some highs were too crisp. I've found my Polk setup began harsh, but after several hours, I like them better, now. I've heard Klipsch and don't think I could get to love them.
I have to admit I am too scared of beryllium to own a speaker incorporating it. It's like the more hard core cousin of titanium. But I would love to hear one to see if it lives up to the hype. Great video.
@@leonardkrasner5811 I see people playing with mercury on TH-cam but I wouldn't breath the air in the room. The stakes are too high even if it's low risk.
Marcus M once the beryllium is manufactured into the tweeter the is no contamination. Hundreds of thousands or even millions have dental crowns in their mouths that have substructure of beryllium alloy not a problem. Only in manufacturing process is there any risk.
I don't like titanium tweeters. Never did. I have Yamaha NS2000's with Beryllium Dome Tweeters (and mid ranges). Not the same thing at all. Beryllium is great!
Ok lot of meatlealergy but noting about a review. A b comparison between Emmitt ribbons, silk dome dimond dome Metal dome and types of metal But this is subject to the listener doing the review.
I owned a pair of Yamaha NS-1000M speakers that I bought while stationed in Germany in 1984. They were great speakers and I most definitely regret selling them.
Enjoying these speaker chats.
My main speakers are Yamaha NS 1000M from 1979. The model originated in 1974 and carried on through to 1997 or so. When used with a good to great amp and accurate subwoofer system, the NS1000M is probably the best vintage monitor money can buy. I've had tons of speakers from big horn systems, JBL, ESS, Rogers, KEF, B&W, electrostatics, nearly all of the New England producers to home brew, etc and can say with utmost sincerity that the Yamahas still can amaze, perform and outperform many modern speakers. Although the tragedy of those who died as a result of manufacturing the deposited beryllium is worth honoring.
I've heard the Focal beryllium tweeters. They sound like they are from another planet or from the future. Once you hear them you really won't believe what you're hearing. Stunning
I was going to say, I see them used with the higher end Focal speakers. Maybe some day!!!
I have TAD S1-EX and they have beryllium tweeters. They do sounds great.
They are great in the headphones too!
Their Utopia line that they are used in are pretty much out of this World…..but not many can afford them
Another great subject! I find metal domes fatiguing most times, unless they're high-end.
Have always enjoyed Paul's Q&A and enjoying these intelligent talks from Chris B just as much.
Paradigm Signature speakers had BE tweeters dating back to 2007. One of my favorites that have survived in my system longer than any other speakers. Love 'em.
Love my Focal Sopra’s. I was fearing some beryllium bashing like you hear more and more. Soft-dome suddenly seems to be the way to go according to many. A good beryllium implementation still is a valid solution. Love this guys knowledge.
Focal speakers are very popular but are known for a certain sound. You and many people like it. Others not so much. Perhaps the beryllium "sound" is part of what you like.
Not sure if the latest iteration of Focals has this so called Focal sound. I admit that it took some really good electronics to bring the best out of them. Sometimes they where a tad harsh before, but all that disappeared with fine gear. So nothing to do with the speakers. Now they are very neutral, to my ears anyway. But yeah everyone has a preference. Not everybody’s favorite color is red.
@Kris Moodley Hi here in mexico we made voice coils from cooper silver and gold. Hand made vacuum tube amps with silver soldering. But to expensive for the Normal. Consumers.
Beryllium = fatiguing. (As much as i wanted to like it.
I have Revel Ultima Salon 2 speakers and before these Paradigm Signature 8’s both use beryllium tweeters. To my ears, these are fantastic speakers both designed by the one and only Floyd Toole.
really liking the brunhaver videos. its a good way to mix it up
Beryllium is a great material for drivers.
Thanks for a good presentation Chris. I'm a pro audio engineer & musician-- I've noticed for many years that tweeters are always the most difficult for designers/manufacturers to get right. As in they're never Right. And I'm including ribbon tweeters! Until Focal came out with their Beryllium tweeters in the early 2000's. Sat me back in my chair-- I was listening to perfect tweeters! I've been out of the loop now (old & in the way) so haven't kept up with the latest and haven't heard TAD's version. They're a great company so I'll have to look them up.
What a nice and again informative college from PS Audio
I just bought focal trio6 BEs. Amazing high end. High end like silk - ive heard people say they mix harsh high end because of the softness, but i believe thats because they mix to something other than the speaker itself. You must know the BE sound to mix to it - but if you do then man can you mix for endless hours without worrying about fatigue. Its such an amazing thing.
I have the Solo6 Be and I agree. Still have not heard anything sound more realistic and hyper detailed! Do not like typical high end colorations of sounds.
i’ve noticed from focal BE tweeters is this holographic deep thick soundstage with incredible speed only beaten by ribbons and atm drivers
@@afj617 dont ever put a measuring tape near your $6k tweeters i learned this the hard measuring the distance between my focals
Chris is getting better each time.
Absolutely! He clearly knows his stuff, very informative!
That Chris is not always looking into the camera for me means that he is looking for the right way to explain the subject he is telling about. Function over form is good for me.
Very nice to hear what you have to say here. Please do many more vids.
Beryllium domes are the ultimate metal dome material. The 'issues' with beryllium tweeters I have encountered in the past have had to do with the application of the wide surrounds that are popular now in tweeters; the resonance of the surround becomes significant when the dome has no discernible breakup in the bandwidth of interest. Beryllium isn't able to solve all of the problems encountered in a moving coil tweeter, such as viscous damping losses caused by surround coatings and ferrofluid, disposing of the back wave, controlling inductance, or losslessly transmitting the coil force to the dome, but it does mostly solve the issue of diaphragm breakup. A planar ribbon or aluminum ribbon tweeter is still faster and more detailed to my ear, with better dynamic linearity at low SPLs. Also the very high cost of a beryllium dome tweeter limits its appeal; in one application for a 16mm beryllium dome, there wasn't a measurable or audible difference between beryllium and Harman's CMMD (deep anodized aluminum) dome material, but the beryllium diaphragm was 10X the cost of CMMD. The chief issue with metal dome tweeters is that even though the breakup is pushed out of the audible bandwidth, it usually isn't pushed far "enough" outside the audible bandwidth not to have some audible effect - my hypothesis is that this is due to heterodyning with other ultrasonic frequencies and creating beat frequencies that are audible; this is similar to how the original ATC LRAD speaker produced sound (amplitude modulated ultrasound) so I am convinced it has some audible effect even in "quieter" home audio speakers. One of the best sounding commercially available tweeters of any type that I have ever heard, at any price, is the Scan-Speak Illuminator beryllium dome, and a custom version of this tweeter using the Revelator ring neo motor (made for Thiel's 40.3 speaker) was the best performing and measuring moving coil tweeter I have ever heard, period, although I suspect Magico's DLC coated version of this tweeter was even further superior in some barely audible way.
I have a set up of 4 Pioneer S-1ex for home theatre with the matching center. The sound is great. Beryllium rocks these speakers.
Great to see another Pioneer S-1ex owner. I use mine for two channel only, and the tweeters are fabulous. Just an amazing speaker.
GS
I lol'ed when I saw "99% true" prominently placed in the background. Gotta keep the boss happy.
It’s great PS audio is going deeper into these important topics. When you look at a total audio system and how money are spent on the BOM, as a consumer, I much rather see an expensive superior cone material than a US$1000 snake oil power cable.
I agree but good cables are always needed for a system to sound good. Although there's no reason for them to cost tons. Unless it's to fool people and make the seller rich.
Loveflopsy Evojzela The point of no return concerning cables is at a few Dollars of BOM cost.
@@ThinkingBetter You have obviously never run a business. I bet you have no problem paying $100 for shoes with a materials cost of $1.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I’ve been involved in running one of the largest multi billion dollar consumer electronics business in the USA and indeed understand the value proposition between what you pay, the BOM cost of the parts involved, manufacturing cost, logistical cost, duties, license fees, sales cost, marketing cost, R&D cost, profit margins and so on. Yes, some times what you pay is factors more than the BOM cost for some fair reasons.
@@ThinkingBetter Labour, benefits, pensions....................................
The new KLH recently produced the Ultimate One headphones that have 50mm, pure Beryllium drivers. I bought a pair (0nly $300) over a year ago and have been pleased with them even though I have difficulty being pleased with headphones. Unlike planar headphones, the Ultimate Ones have an outstanding bass response. Unlike some brands such as Sennheiser (those sound too dark for me), they have a lively top-end that does not sound too bright (never harsh, as some metal tweeters can sound), and unlike some other brands (such as Grado), the Ultimate Ones do not have a midrange that is too forward. Low impedance (32 ohms) and low price, with pure Beryllium drivers that sound nice, made them a good choice for me, though I still prefer to listen to my speakers when I can.
So I didn't get if you like beryillion for tweeters or not.
Focal beryllium vs Scan speak? Which tweeter sounds better?
very articulate and knowledgeable
I love my TAD 703, I think Pioneer is still selling them. Thanks for sharing your insight.
I hope Chris will do a full final launch spec walk through of the PS Audio loudspeakers
Hi Chris. Great discussion on speaker tech! I have the TAD ET 701 and the TD 2001 compression drivers. I agree they were implemented well. They do require good electronics to sound smooth.
My only experience with beryllium has been with Focal’s Stellia headphones. The headphones are remarkably dynamic and detailed and I understand this to be a result of using the material. I’m hoping you guys add a headphone amp to your amplifiers or sprout one day.
Focal has used Beryllium in their tweeters for several years. They're tweeters are highly resolving. I don't know if using this material is the gateway opiate to better sounding higher frequencies.
There's so many factors, including crossovers, mating with the other drivers, the cabinet influence on the sound, etc.
The focal tweeter gets a lot of its sound from the inverted dome having different dispersion characteristics too
Seriously? Are those Buchardt S400 back there? lol!
@HiFi Magico ???????????????
If berrylium is done right in a tweeter...there hard to beat. But has to be done right and paired with the right amps. Soft domes have came a long ways and ive heard Soft domes that sounded more bright and sharp than metal ones. Dont always think a speaker will sound a certain way with certain materials. Usually you can categorize speakers by material but dont believe everything you hear
Beryllium is interesting...
"The single primordial beryllium isotope 9Be also undergoes a (n,2n) neutron reaction with neutron energies over about 1.9 MeV, to produce 8Be, which almost immediately breaks into two alpha particles. Thus, for high-energy neutrons, beryllium is a neutron multiplier, releasing more neutrons than it absorbs."
Yamaha NSF-1, NSA(anniversary)10000 are so far beyond what we even see today and their response is astounding. The midrange, long crystal 4" beryllium midrange is perfect from 500 to 5K and can go both higher and lower. Extremely fast and perfect piston, I have heard thee anniversary series which the technology is rarely even seen today except for some of the better components of the caps but few use quality caps. +/- .5 or .75 depending on who did the testing from 38-40K is beyond most anything ever made. The NSF-1 is demanding, as well as the anniversary unit far far more money and going up along with their VFET Amplifiers and those who were capable of making components that are toooo expensive regardless of their superiority such as the Sansui top of the line, Harman Kardon XX Citation which is now over 100K, the Grand Integra and the like. Don't even start on the Trio Laboratory series as engineers are now finding that their findings to be absolutely accurate with only Spectral in the picture here now.
ZMF's Verite headphone has an interesting application too - its a berillium coated PEN driver, and it sounds amazing.
What is PEN?
@@ghostrecon3214
To qote Zach Merbach:
"Our driver is made of 85% PEN (polyethylene naphthalate) with 15% Beryllium coated on the surface to achieve a punchy, revealing, never harsh sonic spectrum."
That's scary
I had a set of Focal speakers and originally I really liked them however as I got older they sounded much brighter. Don't think there was a problem with the speakers think it was my ears getting older. Do you think Beryllium can make a speaker sound too bright? Thanks for the video
My tweeters are impregnated with space fairy dust, not ur old regular fairy dust but the new more expensive space fairy dust
When is PSA going to make a king desktop speaker for nearfield audiophiles?
x99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 nearfield audiophiles please !!! PLEASE !!
Cooooool. Thanks for the informing vidz
Bery interesting to learn about it.
Would anyone recommend using beryllium drivers for pro audio in a 215 style midtop application? Looking at radian's 1.4" beryllium cd's
I like the idea of hifi at pa levels, those cd's are rated down to 500hz, if I get a horn thats good down to 700hz and keep the cd's at 1100hz and up I'd imagine I could keep them going at war volume all night with appropriate subs matching the 215 cabs, thoughts? Or is aluminum the safer and cheaper bet?
I always enjoy your videos I find them very informative. Young's modulus of elasticity reflects the point where a material moves from elastic deformation to plastic deformation. Its the slope of the curve before plastic deformation that your referring to, I'd be curious to see the curves compared. BTW stainless steel is not a defined element/material its an alloy and its properties are subject its composition.
I am with the horn tweeter crowd. The human ear is very sensitive to distortion, especially in the mid-range of ~300hz to 5khz. And distortion is a function of diaphragm travel, ie the further the diaphragm has to move, the more distortion; so if you minimize diaphragm movement with a horn, you will also minimize distortion. Of course now you have to engineer a suitable phase plug for a compression driver and also a horn.
Plus in the manufacturing-level you have to manufacture a phase-plug, in the traditional compression drivers that is machined. Today they are of molded plastic and fiberglass which costs way less.
In past research has shown that there are little differences in dispersion between the dome and the cone radiator tweeters, but is a function of driver diameter/size.
For best sounds, a horn and compression driver are the way to go, but you pay the price. Speaker manufacturers are in business to make a profit. When you put huge amounts of money into R&D and also in manufacturing, they have to charge the customers appropriately. At retail a typical "run of the mill" compression driver and horn can cost way more than the comparable direct radiator because of the r&d and increased manufacturing costs.
Pioneers TAD line is a good example of SotA in beryllium and titanium materials and driver technology, and of course of course the cost of that technology is in stratosphere.
TAD developed the vapor deposition process for Beryllium tweeter manufacturing used by many other high-end speaker manufacturers.
When I think about Beryllium vapor, I can imagine the manufacturing process is very toxic. Not for a Chinese factory, of course.
I own a pair of Master and Dynamic MW65 headphones with Be drivers and they resolve really well on high frequencies, but I do hear a more bright sound out of them when compared to my many other headphones. I considered getting a pair of speakers with Be tweeters, but my concern is they may be a bit harsh as well. Must find a place to demo first
Hallo
I can buy me a few focal berlylium tweeter ,1 tweeter is damage .. is it a risk ?
Look out!
Chris is taking over!
Well I used to do speaker repair, so I for one am enjoying the speaker talks.
Hey Chris, are you familiar with Gallo Acoustics' Cylindrical Diaphram Tweeter?
Pretty darn spiffy, that one! ; )
I've just purchased Bliesma T34B for my next project!
That's the best berilium driver. Im Looking forward theirs berilium mid domes. Enjoy!
Everyone hears things differently. For me, Beryllium tweeters sound bright and edgy. They lack a smooth natural sound. I have tinnitus and am sensitive to bright harsh sound. The best sounding tweeters I have heard are the Dynaudio Esotar soft dome tweeters but others may like a brighter, more aggressive top end.
Pioneer Hpm models speakers 👌👍
Hi Chris, is the beryllium used in tweeters, dangerous over time to the end user or person manufacturer the tweeter or is it the actual amount that is hazardous to your lungs? This was a question that I was asked and I took a guess by saying it was the amount? Then I was asked what if you attempted to fix the beryllium tweeter itself, could you disturb the beryllium enough to cause the damage to your lungs for which I had no answer.
The general consensus is that it's ok unless you break it and breath/ingest it. They tend to have mesh grills these days
My old Yamaha NS-500's still sound great and they have the beryllium tweeters.
Another method to get breakup up to frequencies beyond audibility, is to use ring radiators.
Like the incredible SB Acoustics, Vifa or Scan Speak drivers. Ring radiators eliminate bell resonance altogether. No need for expensive berylium.
They do have other problems (there's no free lunch in speaker design), but those problems tend to be easier to deal with, and less audible.
There's some narrowing of dispersion with ring radiator
I have a RAAL 70-20xr, it's great, I've always wanted to compare it to the Berylium Scanspek
Love the speaker info, Chris. I'm kind of a speaker-a-holic! I've built and bought several pairs of speakers over the years. I have 6 pair in my garage alone right now! (My wife's going to KILL me if I get any more)! I'm just addicted to finding the perfect sound!
Have you paid attention to your room? If not you are far from hearing anything even remotely close to perfection.
May I recommend the Gallo Acoustics Strada speakers, mounted low with a low listening position (preferably nearfield), combined with two DIY H-frame subwoofers?
Your journey may come to an end with that set-up. ~_^
My first experience with that metal was in our use for inertial gyro navigators. Never imagined it to be used in speaker drivers. What are the chances that as a speaker driver it can pose a hazard?
Essentially zero, unless you lick your domes every day! It's only during machining / processing that fine dust is readily created, which is harmful if inhaled.
Chris get video, would like to hear your opinion on ribbon tweeters. i realize the are several different types. i have a 30 year old pair of speaker with cobalt ribbon tweeters and they are still hard to beat the have a really big fq. range. From what i see with the AN3's it looks like PS audio likes ribbons as well.
How come midrange woofers are no longer called "Squawkers" ?
If berillium is toxic specially with water why they use it on headphones?
berillium is toxic when you cut it, if the be is in solid state nothing happen, but working with be is another history.
I used to be in aerospace military we had to where space suits if we worked on it.
Interesting.
After purchasing the focal utopia headphones recently I have been more interested in beryllium. Those little drivers in the utopia are the cutting edge in dynamic headphones. Just my option.
Right now I have Yamaha beryllium, aluminium horns, Biocelulose Sony and had Diatones pure bor and I prefer....Matsushita titanium horns
Oh and Focal beryllium and old Yamaha beryllium or TAD is another story
I preffer paper or silk the most
Did not know that the NS 1000 used that technique to deposit...I wonder if It is being used on there new flagship NS5000 . great topic
I remember working on a pair of Yamaha NS-1000's that had the drivers you mention and the sound was very clean but not very dynamic. The drivers of course are not blow out proof.
I have a pair. They are rated for no more than 100 watts. If you run into clipping, the tweeters don't like it. I drive mine with a 60 watt Marantz. Play non compressed natural recordings, not stuff the product of the CD Loudness war and you will be mine. I bought mine new and still have them. Only added a subwoofer. The cabinet is a huge part of the speaker. Have you tried knocking on wood on those? Those are in a non resonant cabinet. I bought the companion speaker stands so mine sit about a foot above the floor.
I sure would like to audition the Yammy's 1000N speaker one day. They are on my bucket list
Forget this Yamaha...sound very bright and demanding for electronic, look for titanium Diatone DS-77HR, much better...I have beryllium Yamaha home and had Diatones 👌
@@audiolover Those are more rare and even harder to find. The Yammy's I see for sale every now and then
@@thunderbird66613 you can buy also other Diatone models like ds-501/503 etc..very good...Yamaha has very weak bass (ns-1000x little better) and not so good for all music types. I would buy Diatone or higher Onkyo Monitor Japanese only models, very very good speakers, Monitor 2001 could be better than NS-2000 in music and build quality
@@audiolover There is an Onkyo monitor 2001 local sale but going for over $2000.
Are they worth the price?
@@thunderbird66613 absolutely, could be much better than ns-2000, even better drivers, big magnets, amazing sound
Chris has a very calming voice reminds me of the late Robert Ross painting on PBS.
Happy little tweeters.
“Mix up a little more bass here, then we can put us a little treble right in there. See how you can move things around? You have unlimited power on this canvas -- can literally, literally move mountains”
Beryllium tweeters and midranges were used by Yamaha back in the mid-70s. (NS-1000)
Paradigm Speakers - Persona Series - using Beryllium for tweeters and a 7inch midrange .. from Materion. (not mentioned)
Beryllium is used in thermonuclear warheads too.
Hmm... i am sure they will sound explosive and warm, but you won't enjoy the sound very long.
Id like to learn more about adamantium tweeters please.
I'm surprised more designers aren't using magnesium. It's light, stif, strong etc. Keep away from open flame though. But it's shapeable, pretty stable and acoustically neutral.
I agree, Seas excel woofers is loved for that reason, but they have an issue where they can crack when the are +10 years, not sure why, but yes super low distortion.
@@kentlarsen578 Interesting, the 1935 Bugatti Aerolithe's body panels were entirely made of magnesium, complete with compound curves. Not prone to cracking after all these years.
@@Joshualbm interesting yes, maybe the panels are so much thicker and not working as pistons makes the difference. As a membrane material you will try and go for the lowest mass unless its a subwoofer driver, so it might just be thar Seas needs to add some material to make them last forever. But I will say that I haven't heard anybody complain about it, they typical just take it as a cost of the fantastic response, and very few materials can rival it I agree.
Because magnesium corrodes, I know the Seas Excel drivers suffered, some were so bad the voice coils popped out, Seas denies all responsibility, but plenty of proof with pictures out there.
Sonance has used BE in some of their very high end in-wall and in-ceiling speakers.
Thank you verry much, this was verry interesting . I have both old pioneer speakers hpm 910 with the berillium tweeters. Do they where good that time?? because they maded in beginning 80ties . That time they costed more then 1000 euro. that was verry much monney in the 80ties ! Thanks for the vid
I have been using TAD's for more than 25years already. I am not turning back. The only tweeters I like more is plasma but they are too in-efficient to match with compression horn.
Usher berylium tweeter is great.
Bliesma makes great berrylium tweeters
Thanks for the video Chris. I heard that Yamaha dumped beryllium and moved to zylon because they viewed the risk of cancer from beryllium to be very high. Since I was in the market for a speakers that I know uses Beryllium, it has got me worried if over time this beryllium can start to leech out into the air and cause cancer. Family is priority... What are your thoughts about beryllium leeching over time from the tweeters.
I am siting very close to my yamaha ns1000 with ber.units for cca 40 or more years, and have no any heath problem
It shouldn't be a problem unless you shatter it and breath it/ingest it etc
*WELL* he _does_ have a right ear!...... getting better every day Chris. keep it coming...oooh, and a SMILE at the end!
I'd love to see the actual engeneering process of a speaker
There is a good youtube video of Focals process, maybe not as in depth as you are looking for though.
The question is.. Can PS Audio speakers compare to ATC's. Can the top model PS compare to the SCM 300's.. 🤔
cp070476 Well Chris knows his stuff and PS Audio take an uncompromising approach so it is always a possibility. My guess is PS audio will make a great speaker that is aesthetic and not as expensive as the ATC top of the line beast. Unless you are Lenny Kravitz or Mark Knopfler the SCM 300 is rather overkill.
The word Beryllium sells it self, just because it’s used in aerospace applications doesn’t mean it’s superior in audio.
I know what you mean. Having worked in professional sound Beryllium actually turns out to be superior. don't take my word for it listen for yourself.
I found most beryllium tweeters gave terrible harsh high end with tons of vocal sibilance, only really works if you can compensate with the rest of the system to somehow subdue the harshness.
I have a set of NS2000 by Yamaha which have the Beryllium Tweeters and Mid Ranges. Having worked in professional sound with recording engineers I can tell you that there are signal chain distortions which are unmasked by the a BE tweeter. The operative word is unmasked. I lent a pair of very high end studio monitors to an engineer who was using KRK "pro" monitors to use overnight. He was very happy with his recording until he heard them in our monitors. He had never gone to bed but listed to all of his recordings through the night. He looked like hell the next day. He had the startling revelation that speakers can mask distortion.
Sentenced to youtube by Paul.
Lol!
"Take yer punishment, young man, it'll add character!" 😂 😂
Paul looks far younger than usual this time.
It’s his healthy diet
Buff, gentle guy. Love ya, Chris.
Is beryllium brittle?
B&W started using Beryllium in their Tweeters close to 15 years ago and they were absolutely brittle. The domes didn't bend or dent, they crumbled. It didn't happen often but we did received some speakers with shattered tweeters (I worked for a B&W dealer). It was a problem unpacking a 200lb speaker at a customer's house only to discover the tweeter dome had turned to dust.
How come no-one is using magnesium for tweeter domes ???
i wonder of someone already made speakers or tweeters from buckypaper
Chris! What do you think about graphene as a speaker material? Is it done yet? :)
Seems to be very thin, light and strong?
Magico uses
Mylar is 4.5 grams per square meter. And it is used in electrostatic loudspeakers. A large electrostatic speaker has only a total of 3 grams moving mass. Please note that includes the bass (woofer) part that goes down to 30 Hz with minimum distortion.
Seas uses it in latast series, supposed to be really really good
Aluminum/Magnesium alloy is superior to Beryllium for a tweeter. Beryllium in unnecessarily expensive, toxic an fatiguing over longer listening sessions
Jos Wouters I have full range electrostats using 3.5um Dupont Mylar. No box speaker comes close for transients and low distortion.
How’s the book placement haha
I disagree that copper beryllium does not a good tweeter make. it's like saying paper is not a good material for woofers ( which I prefer). Young's modulus is twice that of aluminum. I have listened to several BeCu tweeters and the sound was very good.
I agree. I just picked up a pair of LSA 10 Statement speakers, which have copper beryllium tweeters. They still have some further breaking in, but I am hearing things in familiar recordings my previous KEF ls50s just buried.
I like this guy. Great information about beryllium wannabe materials out there. I was noticing the copper-beryllium tweeters coming out of China recently. How could a soft metal like copper do anything but ruin the benefits of an ultra stiff metal like beryllium?
They are probably fake just like he said in the video
I don't know how they do it, but the BeCu tweeters on my new LSA 10 Statements are great, fast and detailed.
Can you do a video on enclosure port location design and placement. Thank you. -Cheers
I know beryllium coated drivers are often used in over ear headphones and IEM's.
Yamaha FX-1
Get a partner to talk to, get some eye contact with the camera and these will be perfect. Good start, speaking in front of a camera is not easy, and the audio nerd in me loves the step up from Paul's (also excellent) talks.
Just lower the camera a little and you'll be at our eye level.
I've often wondered about how well a soft dome tweeter can reproduce the crispness of a cymbal. It would seem you'd need something much more rigid.
SEAS soft dome tweeters are astonishing in the PMC loudspeaker line.
@Fat Rat I'm sensitive to harshness and listening fatigue. When I think back on some demos, I thought about realism and how some highs were too crisp. I've found my Polk setup began harsh, but after several hours, I like them better, now. I've heard Klipsch and don't think I could get to love them.
I have to admit I am too scared of beryllium to own a speaker incorporating it. It's like the more hard core cousin of titanium. But I would love to hear one to see if it lives up to the hype. Great video.
I used beryllium alloys in dental coping for a for about 10 years, melting, casting and grinding. It’s not very scary.
@@leonardkrasner5811 I see people playing with mercury on TH-cam but I wouldn't breath the air in the room. The stakes are too high even if it's low risk.
Marcus M once the beryllium is manufactured into the tweeter the is no contamination. Hundreds of thousands or even millions have dental crowns in their mouths that have substructure of beryllium alloy not a problem. Only in manufacturing process is there any risk.
I don't like titanium tweeters. Never did. I have Yamaha NS2000's with Beryllium Dome Tweeters (and mid ranges). Not the same thing at all. Beryllium is great!
Look into the camera more.
OMG watching you is like a striptease. You offer so much but leave the viewer wanting more
Ooh, la-la! 😂
Is Beryllium hyped up for the audiophile demographic?
Lol😂,, sales. Office???? Is that your mom's house, living room???? 😂
Ok lot of meatlealergy but noting about a review. A b comparison between Emmitt ribbons, silk dome dimond dome
Metal dome and types of metal
But this is subject to the listener doing the review.
I owned a pair of Yamaha NS-1000M speakers that I bought while stationed in Germany in 1984. They were great speakers and I most definitely regret selling them.