Why Direct Drive Beats Bowden Tube

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 83

  • @124thDragoon
    @124thDragoon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    on the MicroSwiss product page for this direct drive kit, there's a series of tabs. Under the "Fits" tab there's a link to a printable fan shroud that solves your primary issue. At any rate this was a fantastic, informative video.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Thanks, I'll check out that printable fan shroud!
      Sometimes I don't read the instructions and get myself into situations that I have to hack my way out of.
      I broke a pretty expensive hotend last week because I didn't read the nicely printed user manual that was included in the box 😅
      Rather than admitting defeat and reading the user manual, I spent 10x the cost of the broken part on tools so I could fix it. But now I can break it as many times as I want! Plus I discovered a weak spot in the design and figured out how to improve it.
      It's the topic of my next video with the Phaetus Dragonfly HF

  • @kaotictube
    @kaotictube 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Finally someone that knows how to do proper print analysis! Thank you!

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Glad it was helpful! I want to do more as its a lot of fun, should have another one out in a week.

  • @cradd00
    @cradd00 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I've actually ran two noctua fans at 24 volts for months without issues. I'm not saying I didn't shorten their lives, but they weren't silent either. They were obviously spinning twice as fast as recommended. Once I realized I had wired them wrong, I corrected them and they're still working fine.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      That's hilarious, I wanted to try that but you'd have to be crazy to intentionally plug a fan to 2x the voltage. Good thing they're way overbuilt.
      I have a couple really fun Noctua fans I want to incorporate into future projects, including a 24V IPPC fan, a couple 5V fans that can run on USB, and a couple massive 200mm fans.

    • @PabzRoz
      @PabzRoz 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      lmfao

  • @neurojitsu
    @neurojitsu 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great explanation of the under-extrusion problems of bowden setups.... very clear and very helpful as I'm trying to decide what setup to buy for a first 3d printer.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No problem, I do this stuff every day, so if you have any questions feel free to ask!

  • @mpulford311
    @mpulford311 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great video. Micro Swiss has a great product. I just put 2 of those setups on my printers. Keep you the videos. 👍👍

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I checked some of your videos about it, I wish they would standardize the fan mount pattern just like they've standardized hotend mounting systems. It doesn't need to different in every printer!

    • @mpulford311
      @mpulford311 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@NathanBuildsRobots true there are so many combinations out there it's crazy. I found a couple on thingiverse that bolt right up too the aluminum plate but I had to switch my fans. IMHO for me I think the fang ducts do really well. So I went with that combo on my Sunlu S8.

  • @just_russ4633
    @just_russ4633 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Very informative video. Cheers!

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks, I'd like to learn some animation skills to make better visuals but that sounds like a lot of work.

  • @TheHollanderr
    @TheHollanderr 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great video!
    Question about running the Noctua /12v fans in series; that protection circuit comes as standard on the printer or did you install that additionally yourself?
    By coincidence I ordered the same fans yesterday:) also an 80mm for the cpu

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The Noctua fans have a built-in anti-stall/overcurrent protection circuit that bypasses the fan motor if it detects too high of a sustained current (normally this would be an indicator that the fan motor has stalled, but overcurrent can also be caused by too high of a voltage.)
      Not all fans will have this built in protection and they may burn out if wired up in series like this!
      This only works on pairs of fans that have the same current draw, ideally you should use a pair of identical fans. The 40x20mm fan and 40x10mm fan combination that I used only worked because they both draw the same current.
      I wouldn't recommend doing this, I can only observe that I did it and it worked. Proceed at your own risk!

  • @davidpellerin9445
    @davidpellerin9445 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great video as always. Do you happen to have a link to that more compact stepper motor?

    • @joebrown9106
      @joebrown9106 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes please provide link.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I bought this set from Creality to use for my projects:
      amzn.to/3xzUKrX

    • @davidpellerin9445
      @davidpellerin9445 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NathanBuildsRobots nice. So you used a 42-34 in the video?

    • @davidpellerin9445
      @davidpellerin9445 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What are your thoughts on using a pancake stepper to reduce some of the weight of the Hot end carriage? Since it's a direct drive system I can't see it needing a lot of torque. And the lighter X could maybe result in less ghosting artifacts.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @David Pellerin I think I used the 42-34 steppers.
      In my mind the optimal solution is to match the mass of the x-axis (hotend, heatsink, extruder, x-carriage) to the mass of the y-axis (glass bed, heated bed, y carriage, tensioning knobs). If one is significantly lighter than the other you can't increase your speed unless you tune your x axis and y axis acceleration limits independently. I print most things at 40mm/s and rarely notice ghosting even on my fanless build that slapped a massive heatsink and stepper motor on the x-axis.
      I achieve print speed through larger nozzles and thicker layers rather than faster motion.

  • @mikelyons9971
    @mikelyons9971 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just got an aquila x2 and the guy I got it from added an aluminum direct drive that fits in place of the bowden. It looks like an identical part but metal instead of plastic and obviously direct drive

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  ปีที่แล้ว

      Sounds like you got a deal, should be a good printer

    • @mikelyons9971
      @mikelyons9971 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NathanBuildsRobots yeh deal of the century $120 dollars for all of it.

  • @MegaTarre
    @MegaTarre 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    SO did this and my stepper motor that extrudes the fillament always removes the fillament instead of feeding it......

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You can reverse a stepper motor by swapping 2 wires on the stepper motor cable.
      www.robotshop.com/community/forum/t/how-to-reverse-the-wiring-of-an-extruder-motor-afinity-a9-printer/64193
      The other option is to reverse it in firmware, but in your case I think switching 2 wires would be easier.
      Mine worked without having to do that. Are you using the included stepper cable extender?

  • @7shortofperfection
    @7shortofperfection 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A significantly easier way to fix the end stop issue is to print a small clip for the edge of the hot end carriage that can fit inside the cover and hit the switch. No modifications needed to the switch or switch cover.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes that would be a much better solution. For a 3D printing channel I don't do enough printing to fix my printers!

  • @CB_agotchi
    @CB_agotchi 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Looking forward to the Dragon hotend videos!

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I have a dragon that is looking pretty sweet right now. I have it set up with a supervolcano nozzle and 2 independantly controlled heater blocks. I want to do it justice so it will be spending some more time in development before I make a video about it.

  • @Waynes-Wares
    @Waynes-Wares 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi! When you mentioned that you run your prints at 40mms….is that wall speed? or just infill speed?

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I regularly run 40-80mm/s depending on feature nowadays, but I don't remember what my settings were back then.

  • @davidburton4682
    @davidburton4682 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    One interesting comparison might be an Aquila or Ender 3 running a direct drive vs. another one set up with Klipper and pressure advance calibration

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I have no experience with Klipper but really want to set it up on my Ender 3 v2 and my Aquila.
      Do you know of any good tutorials or videos on the subject?

  • @stefanguiton
    @stefanguiton 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent video! Subbed

  • @TheAnoniemo
    @TheAnoniemo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Linear advance could fix a lot of those bowden extrusion issues, because it compensates for startup and slowdown pressure in the nozzle.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I need to figure out how to use linear advance. Generally I like solving problems with hardware vs software. If you combined direct drive with linear advance that would probably be a next-level solution

    • @TheAnoniemo
      @TheAnoniemo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@NathanBuildsRobots Yes and no, I converted my Ender 3 to direct drive and am still running linear advance and the results are great. However the difference between linear advance on or off is a lot smaller because of the mechanical benefits of direct drive.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TheAnoniemo good to know 👍

  • @catdisc5304
    @catdisc5304 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice video! was thinking about upgrading my aquila to direct drive, however your bowden aquila seems dramatic, mine prints a lot more consistent than what you showed

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah I think I needed to bump up the e-steps on mine. I tuned e-steps as part of the new extruder install, also the stock setup had a gap between the nozzle and bowden tube of about 2 mm (inside of the heater block) so that was probably adding to the inconsistent extrusion.

  • @brianwild4640
    @brianwild4640 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    so have your second layer to start further around the model then the under and over extrusion are at different points of the model

  • @baxrok2.
    @baxrok2. 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Interesting. I don't like having to 'modify' parts to make things fit. However, it may be unavoidable. As is, the Aquila prints PLA, PETG and ABS just fine so no upgrade plans for me. I've yet to see an alternative fan shroud on Thingiverse but I may just start working on one myself.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think this one might work?
      www.thingiverse.com/thing:4369859
      I try to avoid putting plastic near the hotend because it's flammable and the heater block can get very hot 🔥

    • @baxrok2.
      @baxrok2. 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NathanBuildsRobots Yes, that's a nice one. I found one specifically for the Aquila.
      www.thingiverse.com/thing:4758228

  • @jaygrafwallner
    @jaygrafwallner 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I just added the direct drive and was about to put it back on.... I also added on my cr touch i had laying around, do i need to upgrade the firmware i assume? is there a good resource for the aquilla for firmware, or am i best off just building it myself. thx

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You need to update the "ESteps", which describes how far the extruder motor needs to turn to extrude 1mm of filament.
      Standard Ender 3 is set to ~97, for this you'll want to turn it up to 130.
      it should be documented in the installation instructions from Microswiss

  • @markparente6532
    @markparente6532 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    was there any differences in print quality between original and X2. Specifically, carbon fiber and tpu. thnx

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The x2 really isn't any better than the original. All they did was add a filament runout sensor, so it's not really worth the extra cost unless you really want a filament runout sensor. It's not a very useful feature and can ruin more prints than it saves, so I prefer to run without one.

  • @D00rHandleMedia
    @D00rHandleMedia 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How did you end up removing the thermistor with the thermal compound on it?

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It was oddly reminiscent of pulling weeds out of the ground while trying to keep the root intact.
      Mine had a tacky, gummy glue, so slowly increase tension and it will start sliding out. I thought it like was pretty close to breaking but it held together. It came loose around 20lbs of tension.
      Worst case you break it and need to buy a new one. Almost all printers use a pretty standard 100K ohm NTC thermistor. They cost about $2 each on Amazon.

  • @rogerscott8321
    @rogerscott8321 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Was there anything you did to adjust the x axis? After installing the direct drive, my hot end actually hangs past the bed after sending everything to its home position.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think I moved the z axis limit switch up. If I remember correctly it is held in place with t-slot nuts, so it's pretty easy to move upwards.

    • @rogerscott8321
      @rogerscott8321 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I may have confused my axis. I'm having issues with the build plate itself. The bed rests at home further back than the nozzle/hot end. So the nozzle is suspended over top of nothing when everything is sent to home orientation.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@rogerscott8321 I just leave the front 5mm unoccupied and never noticed, but upon inspecting I see what you mean. My x-axis (the one that moves the print head left/right) is pretty much spot on, My y axis (the one that moves the bed forward/back) has the bed sitting about 5mm back at the home position.
      You could fix this by moving the switch 5mm forward, adding a 5mm spacer to the plate under the bed to contact the switch early, or setting the y home offset using an M206 command followed by M500 to save it
      "Set Home Offsets | Marlin Firmware" marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M206.html
      Do you know how to send gcode directly to the printer?

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@rogerscott8321
      So you would use Ponterface with your printer plugged into your computer to send:
      M206 Y8
      Then
      M500
      This would:
      offset y axis 8mm
      save new settings to eeprom

    • @rogerscott8321
      @rogerscott8321 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you. I'm still pretty new to all of this, but I really wanted to jump into this direct drive upgrade so I could get it figured out and dialed in for future prints.

  • @YourLocalRaccoon
    @YourLocalRaccoon 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have a voxelab aquila and I've never had under or over extrusion issues like you show with the whitehouse's. Never had perimeter issues either come to think of it.
    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to convert it over to direct drive so I can more easily print multiple colors or print with something like TPU, but I wouldn't be doing it to solve any printing issues.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I had this issue come up again in my latest video. I think it might have to do with print speed. At lower speeds I don't get any issues but at higher speeds the thick/thin stuff starts to show up more.

    • @YourLocalRaccoon
      @YourLocalRaccoon 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NathanBuildsRobots higher speeds usually necessitates a better extruder like a BMG as well as higher hotend temps, should look into upping temps based on a temp tower and the speeds to want to print at as well as a BMG upgrade

  • @iamtoxic1
    @iamtoxic1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So everything for the ender 3 v2 will also work for the aquila?

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      For the most part, yes. The Aquila is basically a clone of the Ender 3 V2.
      There are some minor differences in hole patterns and the exact positioning of the limit switches, but all the hardware is the same.

    • @iamtoxic1
      @iamtoxic1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NathanBuildsRobots so most of the mods and stuff on thingiverse would work.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@iamtoxic1
      For the most part, yes. But feel free to ask with specific mods, I can look over it for you.
      The main difference is the hole pattern on the x carriage plate.
      www.reddit.com/r/VoxelabAquila/comments/o7wlwk/aquila_xaxis_carriage_plate/?

    • @iamtoxic1
      @iamtoxic1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NathanBuildsRobots I just got my aquila at at Christmas and haven't done anything yet. I've made 3 prints. I don't even know how to calibrate it yet. I just know that there are a couple things I think could be better or different. Like the spool holder

  • @kingtungstenworldwide4472
    @kingtungstenworldwide4472 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can someone explain exactly how to adjust the settings for the e-steps? In a slicer program (Cura?) or somewhere else?

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Gcode is written with distances in mm, the machine needs to translate that distance in mm to # of steps using a conversion factor called "steps per mm"
      For the x, y, and z axis the relationship is straightforward and fixed. It is determined by the number of teeth on the timing belt pully, or the thread pitch on the lead screws.
      However, the extruder is special. The number of steps/mm can change slightly depending on how firm the filament is, how much tension is on the extruder arm, and the geometry of the extruder gear.
      The basic procedure is to run 100mm through the machine, measure how far the filement actually moved, then adjust esteps to adjust for the difference. Repeat until it runs 100mm when you tell it to run 100mm.
      E-steps are adjusted on the machine through its touchscreen or knob interface.
      Chep has a good video on this.
      th-cam.com/video/QnrH2Sk7y40/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=CHEP

  • @TheKyleanderson1989
    @TheKyleanderson1989 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would it be possible to drill and tap the new plate to make the stock fan mount fit?

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Maybe - but it would be complicated. You would also have to drill some extra holes because the stock design uses plastic hooks that latch onto the plate.
      I am working on an update video for this printer. I ended up using a version of this fan shroud
      www.thingiverse.com/thing:4920328
      But I remixed it using Autodesk Meshmixer (I had to make it longer to accommodate a volcano style hotend, will post it in thingiverse when I publish that video or sooner if someone needs it now).
      It works sooo much better than any of the stock fan shrouds. Just make sure to print it out of PETG, it's about as easy to use as PLA, but has a higher melting temp which comes in handy when printing anything that goes near the hotend.

    • @TheKyleanderson1989
      @TheKyleanderson1989 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@NathanBuildsRobots Awesome! Thank you very much for your time and lengthy reply. Your video did inspire me to go with the Voxelab Aquila for my 2nd printer it seems like a win win over the Ender 3 v2 and i have no need for a run out sensor they seem like they cause more problems than they are worth as seen in your other videos. Keep up the great work!

  • @VastCNC
    @VastCNC 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did you experience any issues with the additional weight on the Gantry?

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No structural problems. I print at 60mm/s.
      The increased mass will cause ringing at lower speeds than the stock setup, so while the stock setup might be capable of 120mm/s with acceptable ringing, a setup that weighs 2x more will only be able to print half as fast with similar ringing.

    • @VastCNC
      @VastCNC 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@NathanBuildsRobots if you do upgrade to dual Z or linear rails I'm sure you'd keep us posted. Thanks for the data. I'm considering a Sherpa mini, but may just work out a better Boden extruder instead, for maintaining speed with minimal investment, and I don't intend to print flexibles

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@VastCNC I'm getting a machine in for review this week that has dual z-axis screws.
      From what I can tell, dual z screws greatly increases the stiffness in the z direction. 3D printing tool force is almost always very close to 0. But sometimes you get some curling, boogers, or surface roughness from overextrusion which the tip of the nozzle will bump into. In those cases a single z screw build will move up and out of the way (like a record player needle riding on the surface of a record). This can allow artifacts to propagate to higher layers, while a dual z build will hold strong and squish any extra plastic out and to the sides.

  • @vim55k
    @vim55k 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Will you try klipper with aquila?

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, Klipper is on my to do list. I'm currently setting up octoprint which is a prerequisite to Klipper

  • @brianwild4640
    @brianwild4640 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Lmao of course you can run 2 in series just learn ohms law. It’s really easy

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ohm's law is only for resistive loads. Fans and motors have a large inductive portion but I guess when its running steady state it pretty much acts like a resistor.

    • @andrewmo49
      @andrewmo49 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I really appreciate you answering questions. Thanks for doing this. It adds to the value of the video. You have a new subscriber.