I’m sorry but Urshifu changes the state of the whole VGC community. Sneasler though annoying doesn’t. You can get around a sneasler you can’t stop a mon that breaks one of the main reasons why there is competitive pokemon in the first place. (Breaking protect) THEN it always crits so F your status changes.
Easy answer. Sneasler introduces ridiculous RNG, while Urshifu literally breaks 3-5 core components of VGC. Urshifu is by far the most unhealthy for the game.
@@michaelkarim57 it also ignores screens, which I tend to count as a separate core component of VGC. If you were to say “stat changes and screens both count as mitigation”, I could see that. That was just how I processed it. I also argue that it breaks type matchups to a degree. “Not very effective means something different when you just get 1.5 damage every hit
there is not one but TWO items that can stop dire claw's effect (lum berry + covert cloak), which also only has a 50% chance to proc anyway. There are no 50% with urshifu. There are no items that can stop urshifu. The crits, nullifying protect, the raw power, everything's 100%. Obviously I'm someone who's been championing sneasler from the beginning and I will not act like I don't have regrets with that, dire claw is still an incredibly strong and annoying move and unburden's still an incredibly strong and annoying ability. But are we seriously gonna argue that a pretty annoying pokemon is more unhealthy than a fucking broken one? Seriously?
Urshifu ignores multiple game mechanics, specifically game mechanics that are supposed to keep it in check (lower its offensive stats and protecting). Sneasler auto loses to misty terrain and ghost types. Yea its annoying, but putting it on the same level as urshifu is... lol
Ursh is better and anyone who thinks sneasler is as good as ursh is out of their mind. Its not like people. for example you, weren't testing sneasler prior to reg h. We have done more research and have some more sets we didn't have before, but I'm ngl idk if the unburden focus sash sneasler set is going to change things for it in the reg g run back. I swear before EVERY reg there is always one mon people hype up as meta defining that ends up being mediocre. It was bloodmoon before reg h, koriadon before reg g, etc etc. It looks like sneasler will be that guy for reg g redux
Yea Sneasler isn't new lol. Heck i played it a fair amount in Reg F as a Flutter counter. It will get some niche use in Reg G (like before) but otherwise it will fall off
Listen, a 16.67% chance to be put to sleep can entirely lose you the game, and it's annoying as shit, but there's counterplay. It's not like sneasler is the only mon spreading sleep or para. Hell, follow me Buzz shuts down 2 of the 3 status effects. I'm annoyed by sneasler as much as the next guy, but the mon isn't ruining competitive. There are enough ways to deal with it that you can absolutely fit one on your team
I used Sneasler a fair amount pre Reg H because unburden/dire claw was super nice into Flutter... but it wasn't on all of my teams. Urshi was lol. Hitting through protect and 100% crits is insane. Urshi also gets priority moves. They are nowhere near the same tier
This feels like a misunderstanding about the difference between "broken" and "uncompetitive". Urshifu's ability to ignore protect and attack drops is broken. Dire claw is just infuriatingly uncompetative/high variance and Sneaseler otherwise is just a top mon in the format.
I’m gonna argue sneasler, unpopular opinion, and that’s because sneasler is playable in more formats than urshifu. For the majority of this games life sneasler is going to see more play than a restricted Mon, and seeing an over abundance of a strong annoying pick the majority of the time is more unhealthy from an actual esport perspective than a gameplay perspective. I still think urshifu genuinely ruins the game though. I’m not gonna enjoy January when reg G is back.
Honestly if it kept one mechanic of always crit or only made the signature move could hit through protect without the crit, then i feel like it wouldnt be the end of all things. The PROBLEM is that it applies to ALL his moves and basically just provides too much value. Just make it a restricted legendary (along with ogerpon because it should be restricted) and i GUARANTEE it will go down in value. Especially rapid strike because of Miriadon. Thats my personal idea for the balancing it. I see no reason it needs to not be a restricted legendary along with the others. Especially considering Calryex is one but urshifu isnt.
Most of what makes Sneasler good has very little to do with dire claw, being an extremely fast, powerful fighting type that punishes protects with coaching is really strong, dire claw is just a bonus. But yeah, urshifu is still worse. I’ve found some really funny niche counters to Sneasler, urshifu just breaks the rules. Also the unburden set is much better in practice than poison touch, it outspeeds almost everything even in tailwind. Nils set is a great example.
I get their point, loosing to sneasler feels bad, yesterday i lost to a turn 1 sleep into a turn 2 para full para on the other mon while my 2 dire claws netted 0 status conditions, there are times that you just need to put the switch down and do something else because of the mon. However, rng affects the game proportionally, 1 in 3 chances of netting a good status condition is excellent when you are allowed to click the funny button 2 to 3 times a game while also providing stab cc into key metagame targets and good utility with coaching fake out and coverage options, much less so if you click it once and get randomly hit by a spread move from a restricted. If dire claw was a good poison stab and nothing else Sneasler would still be good right now (maybe not dominant tho), if you are playing It in reg g Is to hit dire claw and proc It. Urshifu is a bonified restricted without the burden of actually being one, enough said.
Urshifu feels stronger but less infuriating. If it‘s in front of my Dondozo I know what it’s going to do and there’s little I can do about it. Crits ignore a lot of defensive options and unseen fist kills the rest. If a Sneasler is facing my Dondozo, I could take some damage, I could take damage plus chip, or I could just not move for the rest of the game. Of course both mons have counterplay and nobody should be complaining if they haven’t even tried to answer them but needless to say I really hope Sneasler doesn’t stay relevant.
@@SrLhama9I think Urshifu keeping Dondozo is check is one of it’s more healthy applications. As much as I love to play the archetype I don’t think it should ever be at the forefront of the meta.
How to beat urshifu: not be below, the speed, prioirty attacks,fake out grass, redirection (maybe rocky helmet) Sneasler: fake out, out speed it( it 120 with unburden so good luck) lum berry, cover cloak , redirection(cover cloak) One has diverse ways of beating urshifu. While sneasler need specific item and mon to beat it. Saying "You need electabuzz" is very specific, like come on! Don't get me wrong. Urshifu is problematic and needs a nerf. While sneasler might not be vaible because of extreme speed and miraidon. But their hate can't be compared. One break the core mechanic of doubles while the other BS their win with RNG( yeah, let hit a mon that resisit dire claw).
Urshifu, especially water, has no switch ins. Water Absorb? Primal Groudon? Ok then just use fighting stab. Nothing is immune to water and fighting stab nor can you protect or shore up your Defenses with boosts. Snealser hits hard and gives RNG to poison, paralysis and sleep wjth a big lean into poison NOT the other more disabling other two statuses. Even then, the common Goldengo is literally immune to both stabs
Ursh is better. There are multiple consistent answers for Sneasler. Ursh answers are very specific and we really didn’t get a good one til Raging bolt. Again, nothing REALLY saves you from ursh
I feel like Urshifu is consistently unfair, where sneasler has a variance of unfairness...so people would rather know what is gonna happen than have it come down to a coin flip.
I mean I think it is obvious that Urshifu is more broken and is generally worse. But Sneasler does feel uniquely horrible to play against and with. The idea it's a competition between which one is worse is crazy, but the correct answer in a world where TPC would ever do anything is to remove them both forever.
all i ll say is i was playing sneasler since week 1 and people for a month was telling was super bad , and they was right coz before the first regional everyone was playing pcyspam , if u dont like sneasler just play psy spam half of sneasler team they lay pcychic terain for u
Urshifu needs to be nerfed incineroar on the other hand is another story but urshifu breaks the game hitting through protect the best defensive move and move in general ignores the stat changes via crits and a damage boost no way of getting around it beside killing it first turn and in that case it has a choice scarf or sash urshifu is way more annoying to play against
Sorry I disagree with either it should be Incin it has been broken for at least 5 years and 100% needs nerfing either as a balance patch or for generation 10.
I’m sorry but Urshifu changes the state of the whole VGC community. Sneasler though annoying doesn’t. You can get around a sneasler you can’t stop a mon that breaks one of the main reasons why there is competitive pokemon in the first place. (Breaking protect) THEN it always crits so F your status changes.
Easy answer. Sneasler introduces ridiculous RNG, while Urshifu literally breaks 3-5 core components of VGC. Urshifu is by far the most unhealthy for the game.
It ignores protect and stat changes maybe sashes if you only count rapid strike, which is 2-3
@@michaelkarim57 it also ignores screens, which I tend to count as a separate core component of VGC.
If you were to say “stat changes and screens both count as mitigation”, I could see that. That was just how I processed it.
I also argue that it breaks type matchups to a degree. “Not very effective means something different when you just get 1.5 damage every hit
I agree
There is NO COMPARISON. Hitting through protect + guarantee crits are not supposed to be on the same pokemon.
@@gabdex83 I agree
there is not one but TWO items that can stop dire claw's effect (lum berry + covert cloak), which also only has a 50% chance to proc anyway. There are no 50% with urshifu. There are no items that can stop urshifu. The crits, nullifying protect, the raw power, everything's 100%. Obviously I'm someone who's been championing sneasler from the beginning and I will not act like I don't have regrets with that, dire claw is still an incredibly strong and annoying move and unburden's still an incredibly strong and annoying ability. But are we seriously gonna argue that a pretty annoying pokemon is more unhealthy than a fucking broken one? Seriously?
Agreed.
Urshifu ignores multiple game mechanics, specifically game mechanics that are supposed to keep it in check (lower its offensive stats and protecting). Sneasler auto loses to misty terrain and ghost types. Yea its annoying, but putting it on the same level as urshifu is... lol
Ursh is better and anyone who thinks sneasler is as good as ursh is out of their mind.
Its not like people. for example you, weren't testing sneasler prior to reg h. We have done more research and have some more sets we didn't have before, but I'm ngl idk if the unburden focus sash sneasler set is going to change things for it in the reg g run back.
I swear before EVERY reg there is always one mon people hype up as meta defining that ends up being mediocre. It was bloodmoon before reg h, koriadon before reg g, etc etc. It looks like sneasler will be that guy for reg g redux
Yea Sneasler isn't new lol. Heck i played it a fair amount in Reg F as a Flutter counter. It will get some niche use in Reg G (like before) but otherwise it will fall off
Listen, a 16.67% chance to be put to sleep can entirely lose you the game, and it's annoying as shit, but there's counterplay. It's not like sneasler is the only mon spreading sleep or para. Hell, follow me Buzz shuts down 2 of the 3 status effects.
I'm annoyed by sneasler as much as the next guy, but the mon isn't ruining competitive. There are enough ways to deal with it that you can absolutely fit one on your team
Now I’m imagining a world where Sneasler gets Unseen Fist 😱
@@davidwindsor2579 mega sneasler gets unseen fist + poison touch
I used Sneasler a fair amount pre Reg H because unburden/dire claw was super nice into Flutter... but it wasn't on all of my teams. Urshi was lol. Hitting through protect and 100% crits is insane. Urshi also gets priority moves. They are nowhere near the same tier
@@scottcrysel the big bear is to consistent, hard to argue against it
This feels like a misunderstanding about the difference between "broken" and "uncompetitive".
Urshifu's ability to ignore protect and attack drops is broken. Dire claw is just infuriatingly uncompetative/high variance and Sneaseler otherwise is just a top mon in the format.
I’m gonna argue sneasler, unpopular opinion, and that’s because sneasler is playable in more formats than urshifu. For the majority of this games life sneasler is going to see more play than a restricted Mon, and seeing an over abundance of a strong annoying pick the majority of the time is more unhealthy from an actual esport perspective than a gameplay perspective. I still think urshifu genuinely ruins the game though. I’m not gonna enjoy January when reg G is back.
Honestly if it kept one mechanic of always crit or only made the signature move could hit through protect without the crit, then i feel like it wouldnt be the end of all things.
The PROBLEM is that it applies to ALL his moves and basically just provides too much value.
Just make it a restricted legendary (along with ogerpon because it should be restricted) and i GUARANTEE it will go down in value. Especially rapid strike because of Miriadon.
Thats my personal idea for the balancing it. I see no reason it needs to not be a restricted legendary along with the others. Especially considering Calryex is one but urshifu isnt.
Honestly urshifu hitting close combat through protect might kill the viability of any individual Pokémon more than any other mechanic
Most of what makes Sneasler good has very little to do with dire claw, being an extremely fast, powerful fighting type that punishes protects with coaching is really strong, dire claw is just a bonus. But yeah, urshifu is still worse. I’ve found some really funny niche counters to Sneasler, urshifu just breaks the rules. Also the unburden set is much better in practice than poison touch, it outspeeds almost everything even in tailwind. Nils set is a great example.
I get their point, loosing to sneasler feels bad, yesterday i lost to a turn 1 sleep into a turn 2 para full para on the other mon while my 2 dire claws netted 0 status conditions, there are times that you just need to put the switch down and do something else because of the mon.
However, rng affects the game proportionally, 1 in 3 chances of netting a good status condition is excellent when you are allowed to click the funny button 2 to 3 times a game while also providing stab cc into key metagame targets and good utility with coaching fake out and coverage options, much less so if you click it once and get randomly hit by a spread move from a restricted. If dire claw was a good poison stab and nothing else Sneasler would still be good right now (maybe not dominant tho), if you are playing It in reg g Is to hit dire claw and proc It. Urshifu is a bonified restricted without the burden of actually being one, enough said.
Urshifu feels stronger but less infuriating. If it‘s in front of my Dondozo I know what it’s going to do and there’s little I can do about it. Crits ignore a lot of defensive options and unseen fist kills the rest. If a Sneasler is facing my Dondozo, I could take some damage, I could take damage plus chip, or I could just not move for the rest of the game. Of course both mons have counterplay and nobody should be complaining if they haven’t even tried to answer them but needless to say I really hope Sneasler doesn’t stay relevant.
Dondozo players deserve this 😂
@@SrLhama9I think Urshifu keeping Dondozo is check is one of it’s more healthy applications. As much as I love to play the archetype I don’t think it should ever be at the forefront of the meta.
How to beat urshifu: not be below, the speed, prioirty attacks,fake out grass, redirection (maybe rocky helmet)
Sneasler: fake out, out speed it( it 120 with unburden so good luck) lum berry, cover cloak , redirection(cover cloak)
One has diverse ways of beating urshifu. While sneasler need specific item and mon to beat it. Saying "You need electabuzz" is very specific, like come on!
Don't get me wrong. Urshifu is problematic and needs a nerf. While sneasler might not be vaible because of extreme speed and miraidon. But their hate can't be compared. One break the core mechanic of doubles while the other BS their win with RNG( yeah, let hit a mon that resisit dire claw).
Urshifu, especially water, has no switch ins. Water Absorb? Primal Groudon? Ok then just use fighting stab. Nothing is immune to water and fighting stab nor can you protect or shore up your Defenses with boosts.
Snealser hits hard and gives RNG to poison, paralysis and sleep wjth a big lean into poison NOT the other more disabling other two statuses. Even then, the common Goldengo is literally immune to both stabs
Ursh is better. There are multiple consistent answers for Sneasler. Ursh answers are very specific and we really didn’t get a good one til Raging bolt. Again, nothing REALLY saves you from ursh
Tried tera fairy Bolt? Sun makes it basically resist every Ursh STAB moves. Poison Jab isn't even a KO either
obvs Urshifu. Use covert cloak, use Lum berry, stop whining
Sneasler is the Urshifu of this format, you will never here anyone Urshifu is the Sneasler of its format. That should tell you enough right there
Simple, it's always Urshifu. It literally nullfies my protect and 100% crit me.
I feel like Urshifu is consistently unfair, where sneasler has a variance of unfairness...so people would rather know what is gonna happen than have it come down to a coin flip.
You could possibly run both. I've been thinking of running them alongside Iron crown psyspam if upcoming regulations allow for it.
People that are mad about Sneasler need to team build better and are mental for comparing it to broken ass Urshifu
I mean I think it is obvious that Urshifu is more broken and is generally worse. But Sneasler does feel uniquely horrible to play against and with. The idea it's a competition between which one is worse is crazy, but the correct answer in a world where TPC would ever do anything is to remove them both forever.
People complain way too much about Urshifu
Congrats, you’re in the minority.
all i ll say is i was playing sneasler since week 1 and people for a month was telling was super bad , and they was right coz before the first regional everyone was playing pcyspam , if u dont like sneasler just play psy spam half of sneasler team they lay pcychic terain for u
Urshifu needs to be nerfed incineroar on the other hand is another story but urshifu breaks the game hitting through protect the best defensive move and move in general ignores the stat changes via crits and a damage boost no way of getting around it beside killing it first turn and in that case it has a choice scarf or sash urshifu is way more annoying to play against
Ironically both are counter by Amongus
Sorry I disagree with either it should be Incin it has been broken for at least 5 years and 100% needs nerfing either as a balance patch or for generation 10.
See I don't think incin is broken, it can't run through a game like urshifu can, and we've seen its usage drop considerably the last 2 formats
Wulaosu ist nevigste Pokemon, das Mann sich nicht schützen kann. da ist snieboss noch okey, da es nicht viel aushält.
If you ask me, cheating is unhealthy for VGC.
I didn't know me and verlisify shared viewers
@@ScooteezyVGC cheating accelerates the metagame to a point where it can’t recover.
@@WolfPack505-m1s what are you referring to? People getting our playing on showdown?
@ScooteezyVGC every non Japanese wolrld champion uses PkHex and cheats.
@@WolfPack505-m1s what does this have to do with this video? like at all?
I’m sorry chat but Urshifu is fine
Bro, 45 isn’t a top player 😂. He got a lucky schedule at worlds, pls leave him off next time
@@EE-yh8ms idk man, T16 at worlds and T8 at NAIC is pretty good, not many players can say they have done that