Once again thank you SO MUCH for this honest and even-handed review. (I'd rather trust a man who doesn't shout what he's found, and you are such a man: kudos for inviting other opinions.) I often find myself disagreeing with most people - disagreeing with modern ears - to me, the vast majority of mastering these days is unnatural and unpleasant. I've been very tempted by this 45rpm set, but I'm 99% certain you've saved me a lot of money I would regret spending. I'm only sorry this comes at a cost to yourself!
Save yourself the cash. In my opinion, this Lamb reissue is a biased hype for "flippers" to make money once the item becomes out of stock. I'm still waiting for a positive review of the album showcasing its merits. What shocks me the most is that any inexpensive record never gets any recognition. Thanks again for your friendly input.
My personal opinion . I have the Uk Og ,German Og of which I both love. This new AP 75 kills the originals .it’s like day & night the detailed separation of instruments so much cleaner and warmer. Yes Gabriel might be more prominent on the originals but at the expense of the detailed separation . Thanks for sharing your views ✊
I have a German original but just sounds lifeless to me. I have a bit of a revealing system and the instruments are very recessed and not much separation. I’ve been hesitant to pick up AP because of the 8 sides. Hearing so many conflicting opinions on this album whether it be the AP or originals. I wonder if it’s just simply not a good recording
HI, from what i've listened to (cortesy of my frien Francisco, my system is very low budget but his is gloriously main Mcintosh), my preferences are: 1st place the Classic Records 2nd (close) the german edition. The Atlantic 75... it's not muddy, for me it's like it had been remastered from a 2nd gen master or something like that. There's something "missing" somewhere.... That what i remember from my listening session, cause we played many records and talk with Francisco abut them but not too much on this one. We got delighted with the "Selling England..." "Atlantic 75", that one really impressed us. I`ll check your video on it later. By the way sometimes i have different points of view with you, but the honesty of your opinions are usufull as considering that i make an idea of what could i like or not. So again, thank you for your high level opinions and for being so honest.
Thank you so much for your comments. They're really encouraging. Agreed on AP Selling England. It's fantastic. The AP Lamb never grew on me so I eventually let it go. I love the German Pressing and the UK Porky.
I noted on your last Lamb video that I thought the Analogue Productions 75 release is the best copy of this album to have been released to date. I stand by that comment, and to answer your question as to why this is the case, here are my brief notes: Firstly, to me the channel separation is superior to other pressings I own (I have 1st UK, and a myriad of later UK pressings (10+) ; 1st US (PR) , 1st German ; 1st & 2nd Japan, remasters including the 2018) and in addition, the AP strikes the right balance in terms of the bass and the upper ranges. The other versions I own are all deficient in one or more of these areas. The AP punches hard at the right times and tames the vast majority of the sibilance found on the UK 1st, whilst still ensuring that the upper ranges are pin sharp. This helps the overall presentation to keep an airy feel to it which some copies, such the German, do not in my view. The 1st UK press (2U) is probably the most dynamic version of this LP ever made, but sadly it does suffer from the hum issue you referred to previously and is excessively sibilant at times. I do like the first US press (I have a "PR" copy like yourself), it is well balanced and doesn't do too much wrong, but it lacks the sparkle of the new AP and the channel separation is only average. The version that surprises me in your reviews is the 1st German. To me this has the top end rolled off way too much. Listening to tracks such as Fly on Windshield - to my ears this has always had a murkiness about it. The whole sound stage is dulled, especially the drums and there is no shimmer or sparkle in the presentation that can be found in spades on other versions. Of course, this all comes down to preferences in the end. I can see your point about the German pressing having "warmth" for example, and if that's something you value then great - that version is for you. But if you are someone who favours clarity and detail then it really is best to avoid the German as in my view it is lacking in this regard - best go for the US 1st, or if you can stretch to it, the AP. Looking at this holistically you can argue that there is something to cater for everyone's tastes between the pressings you highlight. As serious lovers of this music, that is a great position for us all to be in.
...yeah.... nerdly fun fun.... preferences are like opinions though... subjective and usually wrong ! i do think the 'objective truth' is what all us sound chasers are certainly after. there always is a definitive vinyl pressing/version of a recording, we must be humble enough to concede to it...if only we could all sit in a room together with a fair system and all our contenders to be heard... we would come to 'THE ONE'...wouldn't we..!?
Absolutely and thanks a lot for your input. That's a great thing about our hobby, we all hear things differently. I've always shied away from the UK first pressing because of the hum. I hope someone chimes in here with a noise-free copy as rumour has it there are uk copies without it. I understand your interest in channel separation and detail but I'm more into depth and groove. Sibilance is indeed a problem in this recording but the German copy handles it well at a cost, of course. As a rule of thumb, German masterings suit my taste. Top end is a bit rolled off but bass and drums profit from it. Not everyone's cup of tea, of course. That's why I emphasised the system-dependency on my video, advising potential buyers to give it a listen before forking out 170 pounds/euros this side of the pond. If the SACD eventually gets released, this mastering would be available for less than a third of the vinyl's price. The US 1st is a good idea when cheap. It sits somewhere in the middle between the 45 and the German pressing and it's more affordable. Plenty of choices.
@@obre9523 Thanks for your reply and I'm glad our ears seem to be aligned, even if our tastes may differ. I have just counted 25 UK copies of the Lamb that I have either 2U or 3U matrices on the offending side with the hum. I've not actually ever listened to all of them to confirm the presence of the hum on all the 2U copies, or indeed the absence of the hum on all 3U copies. The majority are 2U copies. I will test each one in turn and report back. This should settle the debate once and for all, as this number of copies is approaching a significant sample size.
Vincente, you were 100 % spot on with your review. This 75 version is a huge disappointment. Way too much base at the expense of the clear mids that are absolutely there in the OGs. Even worse, Gabriel’s voice is recessed to a point that I’m really questioning whether these people actually understand this music. It’s dull and lacks the ultimate grit from Gabriel. Some reviewers talk about the Lamb is a bit ‘Gabriel heavy’. They’re damn right! It should be! Please do yourself a favour and score a UK 1st press “Porky & Jonnie”. Not Porkies Prime Cut, it’s oke but the first cut blows everything out of the water, including the German, EU versions and the Classic Record. Greetings from the Netherlands
Thanks for the info. Some people clearly default to overgrading when it comes to certain boutique labels. My channel tries and I definitely pursue to keep things in perspective. The Lamb Ap sounds way off. Interfering bass, voice recessed,etc. Glad you agree with me.
Hi Vicente, first of all congratulations for your TH-cam channel and for your frankness. I really appreciate the approach you’ve respect to the reissues and I really like your way of comparing the different editions of an album. The frankness is something that is rarely found here on YT, on social media and in the society in general. Regarding "The Lamb": after listening to the album and watching your video I can say that I almost totally share your thoughts. I think that listening to the first pressings (in particular UK and Italian ones) the problem of this record has always been the bass, very little highlighted. From this point of view, things improved with the first US pressing and with the German reissue released in 1978 (very very balanced edition and very cheap). The 2023 edition is yes, rich of sonic details, there's a nice depth on Banks' piano (one of the nicest things about this reissue - particularly in The Lamia); the voices of Gabriel and Collins are beautiful too. Paradoxically the flaw of this edition is the bass always and too much in evidence (as you also point out in the video, in particular in “The Cage”)! The other problem, connected to the first one, is the drums’ volume. The drums are hidden by the other instruments (the bass first of all), definitely too low even in the moments when Collins pushes a lot. I liked this reissue in the "calm" moments like: Cuckoo Cocoon, Broadway Melody Of 1974 (its end) in other songs instead the sound suffers from too many instruments in play at the same time. My favorite editions remain: 1974 US, 1978 GER, 2018 Abbey Road Half-Speed 180g remastered edition. The latter is very rich in details, the drums are in evidence but in perfect balance with the rest of the instruments. Hello and thank you for your time Giuseppe
Yes, I agree with you. But to me, those flaws do not justify 170 pounds. 29.95 maybe, that's all. Yes the US Porky and the German are good enough.Thanks for mentioning the Half-speed. I'll give it a go since it's inexpensive. Grazie mile
Nice review,you have probably saved me a few quid lol,i loved my copy of SEBTP which i thought sounded amazing and certainly tops the other versions i have,i was always in two minds with this one,my fear is that cut on 45 it will just spoil the whole flow of the album ,and my UK original sounds good to my ears anyway,think i'll stick with that
My advice is listening to the 45 before buying. Just that. If it's you're cup of tea, be my guest. On the contrary, you'd be regretting the money invested the way I do now. Your call.
My pressing is from taiwan, that was extremely cheap, i listen to it for the music, not for the endless quest of " the best" recording, the lamb is a great album to "air drum" to. Thanks for your honest opinions on this new release, give it 10 years and there will be another "better" release , lol.
I completely agree with your review. IMHO, this was never one of the best produced albums anyway and always thought the 3rd and 4th sides sounded better than the first 2. The Atlantic 75 stays true to this but for me the mix is somewhat 'schizophrenic', lacking consistency; instruments seem to drift in and out and some of the bass lines too light especially what you refer to re Fly On A... Peter's voice however, is always centre stage and quite prominent which I like! I am not sure what you call it but there is also a 'pre-echo' i.e. you hear what is coming before the proper sound starts - I have always associated this with poor pressings and production etc. I would be very interested to hear your view on this. The mix reminds me of the box-set pressing and I wonder if the only reason this sounds as it does is due to the 45rpm format and that no real remixing has actually taken place. Astonishingly, record 1 of this pressing is warped! Maybe you could comment on that? I note also from other reviews of this series, that Selling England (record 1) is also warped - there is a video included in one review of the disc on the turntable and it is quite noticeable. My pressing however, is not as bad, but there is still a warp. Considering the price and how we 'big up' Analogue Productions, I find this completely unacceptable and represents poor quality control. Finally, and this is a niggle, there is quite a lot of static when removing the records and more dust that expected. At the end of the day, we, the music lovers and fans, pay what we feel is fair and acceptable to try and get the best sound and, in this instance, I can't help feeling slightly ripped off.
Thanks for your detailed output. No, I don't think any remixing has been done but mastering choices were not very wise to say the least. I find this reissue artificial and not cohesive. As you say, Peter's voice is always centered and clear but the rest of the instruments go their own way. Especially, the bass as you point out. Sometimes it is intruding -as in The Cage-, there are moments when it is recessed and the whole thing does not seem perfectly balances. Quality control is an issue as well. My Selling England has an edge warped. I didn't bother to return it because it would take months to get a replacement and my stylus can handle that alright. I really encourage you to watch my next video coming on March 23rd where I tackle those issues. As a teenager and young adult you never had to face those inconveniences at all and, as we both seem to agree they are due to poor quality control. it seems as though some companies wnat to cash in as soon as possible and to me, that's disrespecting consumers. Big hug!
I think this is the best I have heard the lamb lies down on the new 45rpm AP release. It just has so much more of everything so I’m mystified with your findings. So much more detail and depth than the original imo. I’m listening on Michell Orbe se, Rega RB2000 arm, AT33SA cart, Avid Pulsus phone pre amp, Krell KAV400i, Spendor D7.2, Nordost cables.
i have both the genesis A75 pressings, i find they sound pretty good but they are not really a fun listen, somehow something missing but i don't have any comparisons and as living in rural thailand im still happy to have them. i wont buy any originals from discogs or ebay as they cannot pack records safely, i definitely don't want to slag off your system but it could be your cartridges are not up to it but not sure why it sound so bad on you turntables. possible take the lp with you and do a listen in a different setup. but enjoyed your review. this sure will make people think before forking out $120. i also feel the same about the uhqr except for john coltrane which is great.
hmmm.... so can you explain why you think they aren't a 'fun' listen...? i have the 45rpm of selling england by the pound.... and what i dislike is the high end mastering/EQ-ing. i find my copy is actually sibilant and brittle/digital like...antiseptic and cold...especially the vocal...this certainly isn't fun !
I have a very good turntable Kuzma Stabi R with one of the best arms a 4point 9inch with a phasemation PP-300 cartridge which is not a bright cartridge that's why I say it sounds very good and not bright on my system but it just does not have any sparkle or vinyl listening pleasures so it must be from Kevin Greys mastering, Selling England sounds the same, I'm still glad i've got them because sadly its very difficult to get Genesis records. It's a crazy world in vinyl, Genesis was such a big band but no quality vinyl out there. Thinking many people would buy these records.
A lot of money for an album which may only be slightly better. I hate the shrill sound of the 2008 re-mixed CD and was looking forward to a warmer, more analog sound. Will look for more reviews before purchasing the 45rpm set. I miss my original recording now unplayable due to severe warping. :(
I personally think that the sound of 45 RPM recordings is being overhyped and people who keep buying the same recordings over and over again to try to get a little better sound are going down an expensive rabbit hole
I was expecting far too much, and I suspect we all were. The problem with The Lamb is that it was never going to win any awards for it's recording/production values. It is not a very well produced album and has always sounded a bit dull and lifeless.... so you can't polish a turd. It just doesn't sound very good anyway; the music has always been fabulous though. I bought the AP 45rpm and am underwhelmed also. It is merely a remaster, not a remix....the vocals are generally distorted, as they've always been. Lilywhite Lillith is still gratingly distorted and IT has buried vocals with no definition of any instrument... it's desperately bad on this reissue, but just as it's alway been. I don't find it too bright or too muddy, but about the same as the 4 other copies I have. I love the packaging, but there is not enough lift in sound quality to justify the cost. I listen on a very decent system: Origin Live Sovereign turntable, Luxman LMC-5 cartridge, Brinkmann Edison Phonostage, Marten Parker Trio speakers. The vinyl is surprisingly noisy in quiet sections, even after an ultrasonic clean. If there is an unveiling and more separation, it is only revealing of poorly recorded instruments. The drums are nowhere, as they've always been. The only thing that would save The Lamb is a Steven Wilson Remix.... and he doesn't like Genesis😄so it probably won't happen.
Nice input and I couldn't have scripted it any better. After all, it's a competition of which pressing doesn't sound the worst. I also find the cost of this outrageous, even greedy. The SACD (if it ever comes out) will be transferred by Grundman. That could improve things a tad. Wishful thinking, I suppose
I haven’t heard any other LP pressings of Lamb. I have had the CD for many years. To me the Atlantic 75 of Lamb just sound ok not terrific. It is definitely not the best mastering of the Atlantic 75 that I’ve heard so far. My other genesis LP is an original English print of foxtrot. It’s quite dull as well. I’m going to try the Atlantic pressing of selling England by the pound as it is supposed to be better. Now you are making me want to try some of the vinyl pressing you are recommending for Lamb.
...yeah... thank you for your honesty and for NOT being another 45rpm cheerleader ! seems to me...{40 years of album/vinyl coveting here !}, that most modern 'mastering' is actually not mastering at all, and simply 'poor' EQ meddling.., {mofi... anyone ?} i did purchase the 45rpm of selling england by the pound.., my only other copy being a 70's canadian/mad hatter pressing that sounds far too veiled. the 45rpm has far too much high end to the point of pure 'sibilance' at several sections. all this 'EQ'd' highness also makes Lp's sound brittle and digital and simply not engaging. my main turntable is an original Rega planar 2 and the glass platter must be removed to change speeds...{the belt needing to be re-positioned on the drive pulley}... a minor pain in the ass, but a pain in the ass nonetheless.i would greatly prefer all these 'ANALOG' audiophile efforts being cut for 33rpm ! how tedious the lamb must be broken up this way..!? oh... and... i have a first UK pressing of the lamb... that will NEVER be conquered !!!
Agree on all counts. The lamb has a lot of sibilance and becomes shrill at times. High end is tweaked to give the sense of space and realism but they suck the life out of the albums, they are not punchy or groovy. If your uk porky has no hum, would u share matrices with me (or a discos link). Thanks for your input
...here ya go... 'A Porky Prime Cut', hand written of course... and stamped : CGS101 A//4 M '3 i'm unsure what the mark before the 3 is... it rides higher than all the other characters...? ...a 1 ? or an apostrophe ? may i ask... how was the cutting up of side 1 and 2 done..? fade outs/ins...? ....cuckoo cocoon..? @@obre9523
...so after finally researching my UK copy 'THIS AFTERNOON'.... it seems this is not a 'first' pressing.... and i can't find the year of release... '75 ? it really sounds fantasticly crushing though... i've compared it to my canadian ATCO lamb, as well as my UK trick of the tail, and of my AP 45rpm selling england....
You guys need to get a better turntable and stylus. Your comment (@oneerd) about Selling England definitely does not have too much highs or sound brittle. Absolutely no sibiliance using my cheap Rega Ania Pro stylus on this one. To @obr9523 I know that the room that you currently are talking in in this video is not your listening room, but the room behind you (which we can see through the window). This is just a thought and not ment negatively (I like your videos!) - your listening room does have a lot of reverbation. I'd suggest try and tame the mids and highs in the room by adding some diffusors. These does not need to cost much. You may actually just create them yourself. This might get the proper sound you need to get from any recordings on how they actually sound. I can't believe that this new Lamb Atlantic 45RPM-one should sound this poor - it just can't be.
It's refreshing to hear a review that doesn't default to over-positivity for the 'latest thing'. Well done.
Thanks a lot. I tried to be fair on it
Once again thank you SO MUCH for this honest and even-handed review. (I'd rather trust a man who doesn't shout what he's found, and you are such a man: kudos for inviting other opinions.) I often find myself disagreeing with most people - disagreeing with modern ears - to me, the vast majority of mastering these days is unnatural and unpleasant. I've been very tempted by this 45rpm set, but I'm 99% certain you've saved me a lot of money I would regret spending. I'm only sorry this comes at a cost to yourself!
Save yourself the cash. In my opinion, this Lamb reissue is a biased hype for "flippers" to make money once the item becomes out of stock. I'm still waiting for a positive review of the album showcasing its merits. What shocks me the most is that any inexpensive record never gets any recognition. Thanks again for your friendly input.
Great review !!!
My personal opinion .
I have the Uk Og ,German Og of which I both love. This new AP 75 kills the originals .it’s like day & night the detailed separation of instruments so much cleaner and warmer.
Yes Gabriel might be more prominent on the originals but at the expense of the detailed separation .
Thanks for sharing your views ✊
Glad you've enjoyed your purchase. Not my case. This time, the mastering is not to my liking
I'm intrigued... what are you listening on?
@@obre9523 Rega P6 Rega Elex R amplifier.KEF speakers
I have a German original but just sounds lifeless to me. I have a bit of a revealing system and the instruments are very recessed and not much separation. I’ve been hesitant to pick up AP because of the 8 sides. Hearing so many conflicting opinions on this album whether it be the AP or originals. I wonder if it’s just simply not a good recording
The UK Porky is supposed to be best but good luck finding a copy without the "hum"@@jackiepuppet9289
HI, from what i've listened to (cortesy of my frien Francisco, my system is very low budget but his is gloriously main Mcintosh), my preferences are: 1st place the Classic Records 2nd (close) the german edition. The Atlantic 75... it's not muddy, for me it's like it had been remastered from a 2nd gen master or something like that. There's something "missing" somewhere.... That what i remember from my listening session, cause we played many records and talk with Francisco abut them but not too much on this one. We got delighted with the "Selling England..." "Atlantic 75", that one really impressed us. I`ll check your video on it later. By the way sometimes i have different points of view with you, but the honesty of your opinions are usufull as considering that i make an idea of what could i like or not. So again, thank you for your high level opinions and for being so honest.
Thank you so much for your comments. They're really encouraging. Agreed on AP Selling England. It's fantastic. The AP Lamb never grew on me so I eventually let it go. I love the German Pressing and the UK Porky.
I noted on your last Lamb video that I thought the Analogue Productions 75 release is the best copy of this album to have been released to date. I stand by that comment, and to answer your question as to why this is the case, here are my brief notes:
Firstly, to me the channel separation is superior to other pressings I own (I have 1st UK, and a myriad of later UK pressings (10+) ; 1st US (PR) , 1st German ; 1st & 2nd Japan, remasters including the 2018) and in addition, the AP strikes the right balance in terms of the bass and the upper ranges. The other versions I own are all deficient in one or more of these areas. The AP punches hard at the right times and tames the vast majority of the sibilance found on the UK 1st, whilst still ensuring that the upper ranges are pin sharp. This helps the overall presentation to keep an airy feel to it which some copies, such the German, do not in my view.
The 1st UK press (2U) is probably the most dynamic version of this LP ever made, but sadly it does suffer from the hum issue you referred to previously and is excessively sibilant at times. I do like the first US press (I have a "PR" copy like yourself), it is well balanced and doesn't do too much wrong, but it lacks the sparkle of the new AP and the channel separation is only average. The version that surprises me in your reviews is the 1st German. To me this has the top end rolled off way too much. Listening to tracks such as Fly on Windshield - to my ears this has always had a murkiness about it. The whole sound stage is dulled, especially the drums and there is no shimmer or sparkle in the presentation that can be found in spades on other versions.
Of course, this all comes down to preferences in the end. I can see your point about the German pressing having "warmth" for example, and if that's something you value then great - that version is for you. But if you are someone who favours clarity and detail then it really is best to avoid the German as in my view it is lacking in this regard - best go for the US 1st, or if you can stretch to it, the AP. Looking at this holistically you can argue that there is something to cater for everyone's tastes between the pressings you highlight. As serious lovers of this music, that is a great position for us all to be in.
...yeah.... nerdly fun fun....
preferences are like opinions though... subjective and usually wrong !
i do think the 'objective truth' is what all us sound chasers are certainly after.
there always is a definitive vinyl pressing/version of a recording, we must be humble enough to concede to it...if only we could all sit in a room together with a fair system and all our contenders to be heard... we would come to 'THE ONE'...wouldn't we..!?
Absolutely and thanks a lot for your input. That's a great thing about our hobby, we all hear things differently. I've always shied away from the UK first pressing because of the hum. I hope someone chimes in here with a noise-free copy as rumour has it there are uk copies without it. I understand your interest in channel separation and detail but I'm more into depth and groove. Sibilance is indeed a problem in this recording but the German copy handles it well at a cost, of course. As a rule of thumb, German masterings suit my taste. Top end is a bit rolled off but bass and drums profit from it. Not everyone's cup of tea, of course. That's why I emphasised the system-dependency on my video, advising potential buyers to give it a listen before forking out 170 pounds/euros this side of the pond. If the SACD eventually gets released, this mastering would be available for less than a third of the vinyl's price. The US 1st is a good idea when cheap. It sits somewhere in the middle between the 45 and the German pressing and it's more affordable. Plenty of choices.
@@obre9523 Thanks for your reply and I'm glad our ears seem to be aligned, even if our tastes may differ.
I have just counted 25 UK copies of the Lamb that I have either 2U or 3U matrices on the offending side with the hum. I've not actually ever listened to all of them to confirm the presence of the hum on all the 2U copies, or indeed the absence of the hum on all 3U copies. The majority are 2U copies.
I will test each one in turn and report back. This should settle the debate once and for all, as this number of copies is approaching a significant sample size.
....may i ask how you did acquire so many copies..?@@alanchampion6519
@@oneerd I wonder too.
Vincente, you were 100 % spot on with your review. This 75 version is a huge disappointment. Way too much base at the expense of the clear mids that are absolutely there in the OGs. Even worse, Gabriel’s voice is recessed to a point that I’m really questioning whether these people actually understand this music. It’s dull and lacks the ultimate grit from Gabriel. Some reviewers talk about the Lamb is a bit ‘Gabriel heavy’. They’re damn right! It should be! Please do yourself a favour and score a UK 1st press “Porky & Jonnie”. Not Porkies Prime Cut, it’s oke but the first cut blows everything out of the water, including the German, EU versions and the Classic Record. Greetings from the Netherlands
Thanks for the info. Some people clearly default to overgrading when it comes to certain boutique labels. My channel tries and I definitely pursue to keep things in perspective. The Lamb Ap sounds way off. Interfering bass, voice recessed,etc. Glad you agree with me.
I have a 1st Uk and the Classic Records pressing. This version is the best I have ever heard it.
I'll flip the 45 for the classic should I?
GREAT THANK YOU..GEORGE ROMANIA
Hi Vicente, first of all congratulations for your TH-cam channel and for your frankness. I really appreciate the approach you’ve respect to the reissues and I really like your way of comparing the different editions of an album. The frankness is something that is rarely found here on YT, on social media and in the society in general.
Regarding "The Lamb": after listening to the album and watching your video I can say that I almost totally share your thoughts. I think that listening to the first pressings (in particular UK and Italian ones) the problem of this record has always been the bass, very little highlighted. From this point of view, things improved with the first US pressing and with the German reissue released in 1978 (very very balanced edition and very cheap).
The 2023 edition is yes, rich of sonic details, there's a nice depth on Banks' piano (one of the nicest things about this reissue - particularly in The Lamia); the voices of Gabriel and Collins are beautiful too. Paradoxically the flaw of this edition is the bass always and too much in evidence (as you also point out in the video, in particular in “The Cage”)! The other problem, connected to the first one, is the drums’ volume. The drums are hidden by the other instruments (the bass first of all), definitely too low even in the moments when Collins pushes a lot.
I liked this reissue in the "calm" moments like: Cuckoo Cocoon, Broadway Melody Of 1974 (its end) in other songs instead the sound suffers from too many instruments in play at the same time.
My favorite editions remain: 1974 US, 1978 GER, 2018 Abbey Road Half-Speed 180g remastered edition. The latter is very rich in details, the drums are in evidence but in perfect balance with the rest of the instruments.
Hello and thank you for your time
Giuseppe
Yes, I agree with you. But to me, those flaws do not justify 170 pounds. 29.95 maybe, that's all. Yes the US Porky and the German are good enough.Thanks for mentioning the Half-speed. I'll give it a go since it's inexpensive. Grazie mile
Nice review,you have probably saved me a few quid lol,i loved my copy of SEBTP which i thought sounded amazing and certainly tops the other versions i have,i was always in two minds with this one,my fear is that cut on 45 it will just spoil the whole flow of the album ,and my UK original sounds good to my ears anyway,think i'll stick with that
My advice is listening to the 45 before buying. Just that. If it's you're cup of tea, be my guest. On the contrary, you'd be regretting the money invested the way I do now. Your call.
There are a couple of free rips on youtube that can help you out.
My pressing is from taiwan, that was extremely cheap, i listen to it for the music, not for the endless quest of " the best" recording, the lamb is a great album to "air drum" to.
Thanks for your honest opinions on this new release, give it 10 years and there will be another "better" release , lol.
8 78 rpm records?😄
I completely agree with your review. IMHO, this was never one of the best produced albums anyway and always thought the 3rd and 4th sides sounded better than the first 2. The Atlantic 75 stays true to this but for me the mix is somewhat 'schizophrenic', lacking consistency; instruments seem to drift in and out and some of the bass lines too light especially what you refer to re Fly On A... Peter's voice however, is always centre stage and quite prominent which I like! I am not sure what you call it but there is also a 'pre-echo' i.e. you hear what is coming before the proper sound starts - I have always associated this with poor pressings and production etc. I would be very interested to hear your view on this. The mix reminds me of the box-set pressing and I wonder if the only reason this sounds as it does is due to the 45rpm format and that no real remixing has actually taken place.
Astonishingly, record 1 of this pressing is warped! Maybe you could comment on that? I note also from other reviews of this series, that Selling England (record 1) is also warped - there is a video included in one review of the disc on the turntable and it is quite noticeable. My pressing however, is not as bad, but there is still a warp. Considering the price and how we 'big up' Analogue Productions, I find this completely unacceptable and represents poor quality control.
Finally, and this is a niggle, there is quite a lot of static when removing the records and more dust that expected. At the end of the day, we, the music lovers and fans, pay what we feel is fair and acceptable to try and get the best sound and, in this instance, I can't help feeling slightly ripped off.
Thanks for your detailed output. No, I don't think any remixing has been done but mastering choices were not very wise to say the least. I find this reissue artificial and not cohesive. As you say, Peter's voice is always centered and clear but the rest of the instruments go their own way. Especially, the bass as you point out. Sometimes it is intruding -as in The Cage-, there are moments when it is recessed and the whole thing does not seem perfectly balances. Quality control is an issue as well. My Selling England has an edge warped. I didn't bother to return it because it would take months to get a replacement and my stylus can handle that alright. I really encourage you to watch my next video coming on March 23rd where I tackle those issues. As a teenager and young adult you never had to face those inconveniences at all and, as we both seem to agree they are due to poor quality control. it seems as though some companies wnat to cash in as soon as possible and to me, that's disrespecting consumers. Big hug!
I think this is the best I have heard the lamb lies down on the new 45rpm AP release. It just has so much more of everything so I’m mystified with your findings. So much more detail and depth than the original imo. I’m listening on Michell Orbe se, Rega RB2000 arm, AT33SA cart, Avid Pulsus phone pre amp, Krell KAV400i, Spendor D7.2, Nordost cables.
Emjoy your purchase!
i have both the genesis A75 pressings, i find they sound pretty good but they are not really a fun listen, somehow something missing but i don't have any comparisons and as living in rural thailand im still happy to have them. i wont buy any originals from discogs or ebay as they cannot pack records safely, i definitely don't want to slag off your system but it could be your cartridges are not up to it but not sure why it sound so bad on you turntables. possible take the lp with you and do a listen in a different setup. but enjoyed your review. this sure will make people think before forking out $120. i also feel the same about the uhqr except for john coltrane which is great.
I've tried on different systems. It's the mastering I don´t like
hmmm.... so can you explain why you think they aren't a 'fun' listen...?
i have the 45rpm of selling england by the pound.... and what i dislike is the high end mastering/EQ-ing. i find my copy is actually sibilant and brittle/digital like...antiseptic and cold...especially the vocal...this certainly isn't fun !
I have a very good turntable Kuzma Stabi R with one of the best arms a 4point 9inch with a phasemation PP-300 cartridge which is not a bright cartridge that's why I say it sounds very good and not bright on my system but it just does not have any sparkle or vinyl listening pleasures so it must be from Kevin Greys mastering, Selling England sounds the same, I'm still glad i've got them because sadly its very difficult to get Genesis records. It's a crazy world in vinyl, Genesis was such a big band but no quality vinyl out there. Thinking many people would buy these records.
A lot of money for an album which may only be slightly better. I hate the shrill sound of the 2008 re-mixed CD and was looking forward to a warmer, more analog sound. Will look for more reviews before purchasing the 45rpm set. I miss my original recording now unplayable due to severe warping. :(
Try to listen to some of the album before purchase. There are a couple of rips on youtube.
Are you located in Spain then?
I'm retired and at present I'm located in Spain
I personally think that the sound of 45 RPM recordings is being overhyped and people who keep buying the same recordings over and over again to try to get a little better sound are going down an expensive rabbit hole
My channel aims at comparing my and your pressings to keep this hobby at a reasonable price.
I was expecting far too much, and I suspect we all were. The problem with The Lamb is that it was never going to win any awards for it's recording/production values. It is not a very well produced album and has always sounded a bit dull and lifeless.... so you can't polish a turd. It just doesn't sound very good anyway; the music has always been fabulous though. I bought the AP 45rpm and am underwhelmed also. It is merely a remaster, not a remix....the vocals are generally distorted, as they've always been. Lilywhite Lillith is still gratingly distorted and IT has buried vocals with no definition of any instrument... it's desperately bad on this reissue, but just as it's alway been. I don't find it too bright or too muddy, but about the same as the 4 other copies I have. I love the packaging, but there is not enough lift in sound quality to justify the cost. I listen on a very decent system: Origin Live Sovereign turntable, Luxman LMC-5 cartridge, Brinkmann Edison Phonostage, Marten Parker Trio speakers. The vinyl is surprisingly noisy in quiet sections, even after an ultrasonic clean. If there is an unveiling and more separation, it is only revealing of poorly recorded instruments. The drums are nowhere, as they've always been. The only thing that would save The Lamb is a Steven Wilson Remix.... and he doesn't like Genesis😄so it probably won't happen.
Nice input and I couldn't have scripted it any better. After all, it's a competition of which pressing doesn't sound the worst. I also find the cost of this outrageous, even greedy. The SACD (if it ever comes out) will be transferred by Grundman. That could improve things a tad. Wishful thinking, I suppose
I haven’t heard any other LP pressings of Lamb. I have had the CD for many years. To me the Atlantic 75 of Lamb just sound ok not terrific. It is definitely not the best mastering of the Atlantic 75 that I’ve heard so far. My other genesis LP is an original English print of foxtrot. It’s quite dull as well. I’m going to try the Atlantic pressing of selling England by the pound as it is supposed to be better. Now you are making me want to try some of the vinyl pressing you are recommending for Lamb.
If you decide to take the plunge, get a German 70s pressing. Inexpensive and great sounding. Thanks for your input
...yeah... thank you for your honesty and for NOT being another 45rpm cheerleader !
seems to me...{40 years of album/vinyl coveting here !}, that most modern 'mastering' is actually not mastering at all, and simply 'poor' EQ meddling.., {mofi... anyone ?}
i did purchase the 45rpm of selling england by the pound.., my only other copy being a 70's canadian/mad hatter pressing that sounds far too veiled.
the 45rpm has far too much high end to the point of pure 'sibilance' at several sections.
all this 'EQ'd' highness also makes Lp's sound brittle and digital and simply not engaging.
my main turntable is an original Rega planar 2 and the glass platter must be removed to change speeds...{the belt needing to be re-positioned on the drive pulley}... a minor pain in the ass, but a pain in the ass nonetheless.i would greatly prefer all these 'ANALOG' audiophile efforts being cut for 33rpm !
how tedious the lamb must be broken up this way..!?
oh... and... i have a first UK pressing of the lamb... that will NEVER be conquered !!!
Agree on all counts. The lamb has a lot of sibilance and becomes shrill at times. High end is tweaked to give the sense of space and realism but they suck the life out of the albums, they are not punchy or groovy. If your uk porky has no hum, would u share matrices with me (or a discos link). Thanks for your input
...here ya go... 'A Porky Prime Cut', hand written of course...
and stamped : CGS101 A//4 M '3
i'm unsure what the mark before the 3 is... it rides higher than all the other characters...? ...a 1 ? or an apostrophe ?
may i ask... how was the cutting up of side 1 and 2 done..? fade outs/ins...?
....cuckoo cocoon..?
@@obre9523
...so after finally researching my UK copy 'THIS AFTERNOON'.... it seems this is not a 'first' pressing.... and i can't find the year of release... '75 ?
it really sounds fantasticly crushing though... i've compared it to my canadian ATCO lamb, as well as my UK trick of the tail, and of my AP 45rpm selling england....
You guys need to get a better turntable and stylus. Your comment (@oneerd) about Selling England definitely does not have too much highs or sound brittle. Absolutely no sibiliance using my cheap Rega Ania Pro stylus on this one.
To @obr9523 I know that the room that you currently are talking in in this video is not your listening room, but the room behind you (which we can see through the window). This is just a thought and not ment negatively (I like your videos!) - your listening room does have a lot of reverbation. I'd suggest try and tame the mids and highs in the room by adding some diffusors. These does not need to cost much. You may actually just create them yourself. This might get the proper sound you need to get from any recordings on how they actually sound. I can't believe that this new Lamb Atlantic 45RPM-one should sound this poor - it just can't be.
I really think all this 45 Atlantic is completely overrated, I’ve ordered this and SEBTP, oh well if I don’t like it I can flog it !
The SEBTP is not overrated. Yes, you can flog them in a few months and even make a profit on them
@@obre9523Seems like just TLLDOB I will flog and keep SEBTP , thanks again for the review !