I want to know what the connection could be between Allistar and Lilith, or if it's just a coincidence that it's been 7 years since they *both* disappeared.
Husk nailed Charlie perfectly. She wants to fix everyone's problems but doesn't know how to fix her own. Her problem is that she does not know how to accept her place or power. We see this in her discomfort at the thought of using her power against Val. The other problem she has is being raised in the confinement of Royalty. This is a theme Viv uses in Helluva. Like Stolas she is constrained by being raised in safety and privilege. She is naturally empathetic. But she doesn't know how to connect to people who have lead horrible lives. Her lessons and ideas are seen as well meaning but fall on deaf ears. She can't connect. Its not teaching demons how to behave that she provides. Its a safe place for hurt and damaged people to heal with the help of others there. And in order to hold that together she is going to have to learn to control and use her power. Because there are people in Hell that prey upon damaged people. Healing them cuts into their power. So they will come for her. She will have to defend.
@@LolAlosh Pretty sure the end game is Charlie and Emily initiating a revolution in each of their realms. Both Heaven and Hell are out of balance and in need of change. Charlie and Emily are that change. There may be some struggle with that change but I think they will be able to bring it about by convincing the current tops to join in their vision. The final conflict is likely to be a combination of Charlie vs Alastor and a third hidden person behind the Vees. Likely Eve. Whether Alastor joins her or fights her in a three way battle with Charlie is unclear. But thats just my best guess right now.
@@hurin1 charlie just wants to fix everything and everyone but can't understand some pepole are just irredeemable Which make me belive that will lead to her death
I think that Angel Dust said Charlie's making things worse only because he wanted her to leave the studio before Valentino could hurt her. This was more like "Shoo The Dog"/"Break Her Heart To Save Her" moment. At the end of episode 4 Angel fogave Charlie and understood that she's just trying to help everyone.
@@DEMONSQAUD well shes being pushed around by her underlings which she lets happen so obviously angel thinks shes just a total weakling, and i don't blame him.
@@opportunity3278 You may be right. I guess that only after the episode 5, in which we'll meet Lucifer, Angel finally realises that Charlie's dad is THE DEVIL and that she's half as powerful (if not as powerful) as him.
Yeah, which is similar to how many try to help people with abusive relationships. The abuser only gets worse and tries to hurt more people but it will cost them in the end of the line
@@agsdragon5475 Well said, bro. I hope someday Valentino will get hit with laser-guided karma. Either he'll be killed by one of the Exorcists during the next extermination or he'll lose his power over Angel Dust and/or his status as an Overlord.
She’s so optimistic. A source of light in this underworld yet it blinds her to what should be obvious. Just being nice isn’t going to make people change. Especially if they don’t want to
We don’t fix such a complex problem with songs. We see that some of the sinners still have positive in them but are too broken to do anything about it ( Angel Dust, Husk, Sir Pentious...), even up to the highest level (Carmilla and Zestial) However Charlie does not have the will to use an extreme method that would be extremely hypocritical on his part as to use the power of his father or to force everyone on their knees with his angelic/demonic powers to force them to listen. It is therefore stuck between an extremely cruel world making redemptions impossible and change its strength but a forced redemption is not a redemption, just another phase of the violence of hell. Ironically enough, the war against paradise may seem the least bad choice for hell but also the one that can lead to total extermination. I feel a little sorry for Charlie
@@clemdarkangel they maybe sinners but their still human and like all humans if they wanted to they can change for better or worse they just need a little help to do so
I think this will be her essential arc. She has really good intentions, but since she herself is already a really kind, selfless person, she doesn't have a great grasp on *what* redemption actually is. I think rn she sees it as just changing the coat of paint. Instead of insulting people, compliment them! Instead of destroying stuff, create stuff! She doesn't realize that a crucial part of redemption, is recognizing your shortcomings, grieving what caused those shortcomings properly, then working on them specifically for their own health/wellbeing.
She needs to hire a therapist and a personal rehab and have someone coach and train her teach her how to understand people even with flaws and how to work with them to understand them better to help them change for the better
What I wonder is... she IS indeed already so kind. She is in Hell because sh was born there, not because of any sin she committed; she's clearly true to her father's original angelic nature. If Heaven was accepting anyone, surely she should be on the list? And yet thy treat HER like dirt. Given how much worse everyone else is, there is no hope.
Charlie is a literal princess. She can't understand the demons because she has been sheltered from it by her parents. Hence her camp style activities. She can't fathom drug addiction or what drives people to it. An honest talk with Angel Dust would go a long way to fixing that.
Agreed. Charlie seems to think if you just do good thing and nice thing for people they will destroy be good. But I wonder if this is just cause she really hiding from her own issue and just think she being nice is enough
@@Orsonfoe It's likely gonna play on the idea that all the stuff in that book in the opening is nothing but propoganda horseshit. Lucifer and Lilith actually were 100% at fault and Adam is justified in his rage and hatred of Sinners, thus Charlie as their child feels obligated to make up for their mistakes since neither of them cares about it. I really hope it turns out Heaven isn't evil or even that strict and that Charlie has been lying to herself for centuries,
@@Orsonfoe I think it stems more from her quite literally being the most sheltered kid in hell. She has her own issues but I don't think she is trying to be nice I think she is just nice and doesn't realize that her efforts are not very effective because her struggles are probably very minor compared to most of hell.
I have a theory that the "sign in" form at the embassy was actually a sign off form for moving the extermination up six months. She's so trusting she didn't even read it in full, and if true she really did make things worse.
That's what I don't get why is the princess of hell so naïve , innocent is fine but naïve at first I thought she was faking it but now. Lucy depressed so get why he let that happen but her mom gives off girlboss vibes
@@wolfsbanealphas617 Honestly it's a breath of relief and fresh air to have a nice main protagonist in an adult animated show who actually acts like a true hero main protagonist in kids shows Charlie and her friends girlfriend and father would fit right in with kids shows.
I really want to know when Charlie is going to use her demonic abilities to actually fight back instead of being a little bit of a pushover. I know she can do it, but I wonder when
If Angel didn’t stop her, she probably my would have wiped Val from existence lol, but Angel probably stopped that with either doesn’t know she’s is very fucking powerful, or it would ruin her stance as a nice person and sinners and demons would fear her and come to the hotel out of fear
As bad as the situation became in episode 4, I also think it's probably an eye opener/hard lesson for Charlie; that people's problems and traumas aren't "easy to fix". She's pretty naive when it comes to the reason why people sin, and believes it to stem from surface level reasons such as "not getting enough hugs as a kid" judging from the play that she put together. She is willing to put in the effort though, the Hazbin Hotel is a testament to that, and I think Angel's Dust situation is a step for Charlie in recognizing the complexities of peoples' situations/problems.
Charlie is trying to help people who more often than not dont want the help. She broke many boundries, in fact she more than likely made Angel's 'work' for Valantino worse for him for getting involved.
Well was she REALLY just trying to help..?? She was there to get Angel back for the hotel and she was advertising to his co-workers mid-shoot. When she ACTUALLY had a reason to step in, she backed off despite previously ignoring Angel and his feelings. She also kinda made it about herself and how she felt when she kept apologizing but didn't actually STOP. Her fixation on her hotel doesn't seem be purely about helping people.
Yes, she definitely made things worse for Angel, but purely because Val is a piece of sh*t. He knows that Angel wouldn't dare ask charlie to help him break free, but he still uses the opportunity to slap Angel around and reinforce his control on him. It's like an abusive partner that had the police called on them by one of the neighbors, and as soon as the cops are gone they punish the abused victim for 'daring' to try to get help. Did the neighbor make things worse for the victim by trying to intervene? Yes, but what were they supposed to do, stand by and ignore the screams? Let's not forget who's fault is that Angel's life looks the way they look. Yes, Charlie is very ill prepared for the undertaking of reforming sinners and she has far less to lose than the people she is trying to reform, and yes, angel is indeed the one who turned to drugs in the first place, but neither of them is Valentino
@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty Considering her father is literally the sin of Pride personified, it kinda makes sense for her to make everything about herself or in this case her goals like the hotel, while ignoring everything else. Pride runs in the family afterall
@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty She doesn’t mean to come off as selfish. Her care for others is genuine. She backed off because she realized she crossed boundaries and even learned by asking Husk to make sure Angel is okay and to NOT force him back to the hotel.
I love how the show is handling Charlie's toxic positivity and nativity, in a lesser show/movie Charlie's actions would be considered good and Angel would be the villain for calling her out
@@SirToaster9330 when ? Those things are never said by any character. toxic positivity is good tho, the only time it's bad is twitter and sonic discussion.
I get that she tries to help, she wants to prove to her mom Lilith that her vision can come true, but sometimes most people solve their problems on their own, even when you want to help them
I think this whole 'learning how to actually HELP people' is going to be Charlie's character arc in general. She is a main protagonist, after all, the story wouldn't be very interesting if she didn't change and grow in some way. There was literally no one around to teach her how to help those around her in any way deeper than the surface, and dealing with traumatic and self-destructive issues is far more complicated. Learning how to actually do what she wants to without letting her hopes be crushed is going to be her journey, just like Angle's is going to be reclaiming his self-worth and autonomy outside of a life full of toxic influences. Having someone who believes in him unconditionally *is* helpful for Angle, and he does realize that Charlie has no way to understand exactly what he is going through, but it isn't enough on its own. Charlie trying to help and finding her simple and surface understandings only made the situation worse will at the least push her to try listening more, even if there is still a long way to go before she can actually help anyone be better functioning.
This was briefly covered in The Hazbin Tapes, but riddle me this: If a sinner goes through with Charlie’s plans and really wants to change, what happens when they’ve “redeemed” themselves? Do they just magically teleport into heaven? Are they shot out of a cannon straight up to the pearly gates? And what can Charlie do to guarantee the sinners won’t fall back on their old habits and sinful ways once they’re in heaven? Her goal is noble, but she doesn’t know what she’s doing at all.
Charlie isn’t remotely qualified to help the sinners. She may be in Hell but her life experiences severely limit her insight into why people adopt poor behaviors and thus limits her efforts to change them. Her morality play made it very clear that she has a childish and superficial understanding of why people do ‘bad’ things. I don’t know if she’s just going to persist in being a constant ray of blind optimism or if her arc will lead her to actually listen and understand the people she’s trying to help. At best, it seems like the only positive impact she’s having is allowing a circumstance where sinners can develop positive bonds with each other; not just through shared experiences but also through their mutual insights on how each of them got to where they are (best exemplified by Husk and Angel). So either Charlie gets out of her own way or she develops the maturity and experiences to have more meaningful interactions with the sinners.
Honestly I want to see how Camila and her daughters found out they were being spied on by one of the Egg Bois and think it was Pentious who spied of them and knows of who killed the angel. Not to mention she might summon him and kill the eggs! To avoid the secret comming out since no one has heard of it yet….then kill Pentious now the eggs might’ve spilled the beans and or Pentious didn’t believe it, but connected the dots, and we’ll…PENTIOUS RUN!
I feel like they would go after Alastor. I don´t really think that they know that the eggs belong to Pentious, and even if, Alastor was the one walking around with them. He brought one of them with to the meeting (No, they defenitly DID notice that!) and then after the meeting that one egg stayed in the building for a while and told Alastor something when he came out. How would they know about the last part? Remember, right outside was a security camera. If that thing doesn´t record sound it would still show Alastor talking to the Egg Boy, wich would look *extremly* sus. Speaking of sus, Zestial also seems to be suspicious of Alastor when they were talking on their way to the meeting. He is defenitly supecting that he is up to something.
it's kinda funny how convenient is that Charlie doesn't try to order Valentino since she is in fact the very daughter of Lucifer. How the only thing that stops her from doing that is "Imposing myself is so meaaaaaan!" The classic "Oh I could do it, I just don't feel like it". Which, considering she could save Angel by doing that, is a bit of a coward thing to do, specially since she is so invested in "saving her people" I am also impressed how everyone treats her like she is not who she is, how easy Valentino Licks her arm instead of being more weary what doing that could mean to him. Is... Charlie famous for being a doormat in this universe?
She's blissfully ignorant and naïve.. she has a very optimistic teenage mentality amongst all the other demonic masterminds around her. I think it's incredibly annoying but i think it's because she's literally half angel half demon or whatever.
@@BrokensoulRider I get she might try to be... making Angel leave Val his choice but considering he is under contract it still feels either coward on her part or just bad writting. I just hope the end makes more sense because it's going too fast and it starts to feel like a lot of things don't matter at this point. We'll just have to see.
The only reason it feels too fast is because of how little episodes they were given to get this done. With the success of the first season we'll hopefully have more in sseason 2. With how a lot of shows lately have been flopping massively, are you really surprised that they were concerned with how much they threw at this?@@fmor2779
I think that’s where her arc is going. She wants to help people, wants to earn the acceptance and respect of hell, but doesn’t know how to do it yet. In masquerade she went into Angel’s workplace, not realizing just how dangerous or abusive Valentino was. However, she recognized afterwards just how much she’d screwed up, recognized she needed to work on boundaries, and apologized to Angel without actually expecting him or asking him to forgive her, which was why she was so moved when he genuinely forgave her and thanked her for caring. Her niceness in the story is portrayed as both a strength and a flaw. It makes the people around her feel safe and accepted by her, but also means she doesn’t know how to actually deal with or interact with others on their own level. That’s why Husk was able to get Angel to open up when Charlie couldn’t. He was able to get at Angel’s level and support him in an informed capacity. Charlie cares, but she doesn’t understand. As the show goes on and she interacts with the residents more I think we’ll see her mature a good bit. Maybe not a huge amount in the first season, but as the show goes on. People don’t change, but they can heal and get better.
Charlie being her own foil is definitely going to be an interesting plot line that this series is going to explore. Husk saying she's too busy trying to fix everyone else's problems instead of her own is gonna come back
I think Charlie's main problem is that she's still imature (she's very privileged) and has nowhere to find guidance, as she said herself in the pilot, she doesn't know what she's doing. I believe that, with time, Charlie will become more mature and learn better ways to help. I agree that good intentions alone doesn't always help, but good intentions + genuine effort does. I think that she's already helping, at least a little, by believing in Angel and Sir Pentious. Feeling supported and that someone believes in/cares for you can make a huge difference. Considering the comic canon, she touched Angel's heart by saying he could achieve redemption. And she getting moved by and saying that Angel's forgiveness was beautiful is very important emotionally for him in the long term, because that shows someone sees good in him. Besides, Charlie is constructing a home for them, a place where they can feel safe and believe that someone cares for them.
Charlie's optimism comes off as naive, and the incident with Angel and Valentino may have proven to be her first true reality check. But with the next extermination on the horizon, I predict that she will learn to embrace her "mean" side very soon, so long as there's a chance that she can save anyone. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.
finale prediction: Charlie will have to come to terms with 1. that heaven/the angels are corrupt and will never let the sinners in, even if they do redeem themselves. 2. that she should instead do what Husk did for Angel Dust and help them accept themselves for who they are (faults and all,) not try to change them. This would be a good character arc for Charlie, learning to fix her own problems instead of trying to fix others. (p.s. Husk really had everyone's number in episode 4. I wonder if that was foreshadowing?)
It's definitely possible that if Heaven doesn't allow redeemed sinners in there the next best thing is make Hell a little better by changing how sinners treat each other.
@@leebulger7112well It makes sense. Maybe Angels like the exorcists don't trust demons because they can be killed and they can't be sure if demons can be redeemed , and Adam could have had all the reasons in using an hologram , because maybe he didn't want to risk to be killed by Lucifer or his daughter , and that's Also why he was so rude to Charlie .
I think Charlie's issue are that she is naive, protected and can't seem to overcome the idea that hell doesn't think the way she does. Her happy day in hell seems to be filled with alot of 'cope' about how bad things are. And it's not surprising. When you grow up in a bad situation you tend to cope to believe it's not as bad as it seems, or purposely ignore things. Her extremely nice attitude is the polar opposite of what hell is all about. I believe her unwavering kindness and naivety has led her to a situation where she is in a situation she is not equipped for. She believes she can tackle problems through 'summer camp' or 'disney' logic. That just being kind to others and open will automatically make them do the same. She hasn't had to experience the pain and suffering others have. Either her reputation as lucifers daughter has kept her safe, or she has been super sheltered until recently. Because of this she has no ability to really relate to people in any way. And alot of times being able to relate is a huge part of healing. Much like Husk and Angel, they both understand eachother cause of their shared situations. And in a way it allows them to both trust eachother, but also be able to share their burdens andnot feel alone. Charlie just kinda expects healing by just confronting things head on. I think her biggest success is creating a safe place where people drop their defenses and trust eachother. And her kindness does work in some places, like Sir pentious. Once he was outed as a spy, she showed him just how actually kind and gentle she was by offeringhim a second chance when even he didn't think he deserved one. Her innocence can be both a weakness and a strength. But the hotel itself is her biggest contribution so far. And I dare say her arc might be to learn that while she can't fix everyone problems(As Husk already called her out for) she can facilitate people healing more passively.
I mean, for starters, you cannot help people who do not want to be helped. And also without proper tools to get help, it’s pointless. it’s like asking someone to quit smoking cold turkey I mean someone could probably manage it, but it wouldn’t be easy and it probably wouldn’t last
I believe Charlie is going to learn more about what their problems are and help them with their redemption. Since the show is new, Charlie is still new at this redemption system. But I'm excited to see how Charlie will grow in the later episodes and seasons
I think we might already have a hint of what the loophole could be. Angel mentions that the contract allows Val to do whatever he want to Angel IN THE STUDIO. so if they can somehow find Angel work outside of Val's studio they might be able to break the contract.
Charlie is nice and has good intentions but shes blinded by her pride ( get it ) plus it feels more like a child trying to play a game then someone actually Trying to help people I mean i guess she is but maybe therapy is a good start closest to that is husk telling angel his a loser
I think they're going for a much simpler theme of showing that, just by caring, people bring eachother closer to who they want to be, and that's more valuable than redemption. I feel like that's especially true in episode 4 where the three mains who are focused on each learn something important that wasn't what they were trying to learn, and the resolution for each of them came in the form of understanding and accepting eachother.
I feel that Charlie's biggest issue is that she doesn't seem to have accepted that there is a portion of the population of Hell who don't want to leave, even if an opportunity were to be demonstrated to them. Alastor and Niffty are both right where they want to be for example. While idealism is a fine thing to have in someone trying to do something new, it is pushing her to try and force redemption on sinners who will reject it, and that is eventually going to backfire on her.
The line of “don’t hurt her” is indicative of the fact that to an abused person like Angel their abuser is all powerful. Logically he may know Charlie couldn’t be smacked around by Val but emotionally he’s terrified of his abuser hurting someone he cares about for trying to help him.
I quite honestly think it is very much possible for Charlie’s plan to come to fruition but it’ll ultimately happen in a way that’s completely opposite in a way she’ll least expect it
Maybe angel genuinely thinks Charlie is weak because he had seen other sinners use their powers before. However no one realizes exactly how powerful Charlie is because everyone assumes she is some bubbly air head. However once she shows what she can actually do, everyone including the overlords will have either respect or cation toward Charlie. Finally earning her title as princess of hell.
I still think Charlie can help sinners repent, she just needs help to do it right She’s already doing a good job teaching them how to at behave better and be kinder but that’s just the surface, Vaggie helps lay down the ground rules to keep everyone in line, and it seems like they need each other to relate to, and let’s not forget she’s the one who brought them together in the first place, all she needs now is someone who can actually help them really tackle their issues and help them break free from their vices Still this doesn’t change the fact that Charlie is an important part of the process she just can’t do it alone
Ha you nailed it, her singsong clappy distractions and crayon drawings are *exactly* daycare material XD She's gonna have to learn a God lesson - people doing things just because you tell them to is meaningless, they have to choose it.
I think Charley need to focus on what they need rather what she thinks they need she needs to start helping them with thier internal demons before they can start trying to redeem themselves. She needs to be more of a therapist and sponsor rather than a baby sister
She's a privileged "ally" She has all the power to protect her own kingdom and make it a better place, but she goes about it the wrong way, putting others at risk because, whether consciously or otherwise she's constantly putting herself and her desires for the hotel first. If she wanted to help, she'd have put her foot down and said enough. The Vees would have not have even formed and she would have been in that meeting with the overlords. She has all the power to fix Hell's problems. And does NOTHING.
Not really Charlie's isnt strong She have power but don't know how to use them addam would have almost killed her add lucfire didn't even bother to do anything to help her ethire
I do like the connection of power between Lilith and her power of songs and important moments in the show where they sing, perhaps indicating a fundemental power everywhere (heaven and hell) of song.
You may have a point: as long as Valentino owns Angel's soul, he has to stay in Hell no matter what. Unless this contract can somehow be broken. Alastor is an overlord just like Val, so if there's an exit clause, he could help Angel render his contract with Val null and void. For the right price of course.
I think she's way out of her depth but is the only one actually capable of making things work. I think the best way to prove the issue is to look at husk. Husk is probably the most qualified to actually run the hotel based on how he worked with Angel. Husk might not have the worst life in hell, but he definitely had one of the biggest falls from grace, which gives him a good base to work off when addressing people at rock bottom. Mix that with his experience and husk can make a road map for sinners to get out of their short comings and find the power needed to improve themselves. The problem is husk would never have actually used the skill set because the same system that gave him these tools tore him down to a bitter husk with no hope. Charlie is the opposite she's inexperienced, but that privilege and lack of trauma is realistically the only reason she can back this project with everyone else recognizing just how uphill and thankless this project will be. Charlies also in a unique position to actually make the final connections that would be necessary. While it hasn't been very beneficial as of yet, she's one of the few demons who actually has connections to heaven and can see the end goal. The project needs her, but she needs to get out of her own way and start taking advice from the more grounded members of the crew.
I think Charlie wants to inspire people to be good rather than make them good. She talks about how her mother inspired their people before the extermination. She could be worried if she's too direct it could cause another retaliation like her mother caused. She's also pretty sheltered and doesn't conphrend why people sin in the first place because she's not human.
Give her time, she's new to this too. No one in Hell has ever considered therapy while there so I doubt Charlie had even heard of it herself. And, the fact that Angel's considering her feelings over his work and drugs proves he's improving as a person as well. And, I think the concern was that while Charlie is more powerful than Valentino, she would never choose to use that power because she's afraid of demons becoming afraid of her. She's too nice
Husk said it himself how Charlie wants to help others before herself, but I think her character arc is about coming to terms with her issues and then using that to truly rehabilitate the guests at the hotel.
Sometimes you need to make things worse before they can become better. For Angel's live to really improve, there will be either a fight with Valentino or a price will be paid.
A) If she did know how to do that, she’d have done it by now but also B) I agree with you there, I refuse to believe someone as evil as Valentino can be redeemed
new episodes made me think even more that alistor and charlies mum have been away in the same place, the unexplained commitment to charlie the same time difference and the you could call me her dad line from the new episode just screams that alistor and her are either close or he is in debt many thats what husk was talking about when he said alistor is on a lead himself
Much as I love Vaggie I do think she deserves some blame for Charlie’s attempt at interceding on Angel’s behalf with Valentino. I mean it was her idea and she could have given her a bit more advice.
Charlie really comes across as an untrained therapist or social worker. She wants to do good and fix the problems but doesn't realize how nuianced and complex they are. She has a child's view of them. These are deep seeded issues in adults who have presumably spent decades thinking there is no reason for them to even try to get better and she has no proof of her methods being effective, and she's taking over simplified theraputic concepts to these massive multilayered issues.
Honestly I believe Charlie is eventually going to be forced to eventually choose between her personal morals and someone else's safety. A person who can fight back but doesn't isn't kind they are weak. The Kind reserve their wrath for the appropriate moment and then bring down The Hammer of Justice on the enemy that deserves it.
6:35 I think its come from fear of angel himself more than reality and also because Charlie peace full nature that most of sinners think of her as a weak person
5:46 Well, it isnt that big of a problem. If heven would realy want someone, I dont think any of the overlords would like to risk their endless life for one soul.
5:21 Actually that's not as bad as you think. A fanstory I read a little while back pointed out that having no bar would be worse as effectively you'd be forcing the people to go cold turkey almost immediately which would most likely result in a relapse rather than waning them gradually.
The problem is also this with angel that was husk helping him not Charlie her mind set makes it difficult for to understand and solve their problem which is sympathy but they need empathy also husk even states this she has problems herself which she hasn’t solved which makes me doubt her ability to help the sinners
An idea here, talk about the theory about the love potion we see all around the forth episode, how this relate to Valentino’s saliva and addictions power There is a lot to explore in this topic, why Asmodeus( the embodiment lust) doesn’t agree with love potions
I don't think Angel has a clue of how powerful Charlie is, it's not like Charlie ever shows off her powers so in Angel's eyes Charlie probably looks like an innocent harmless kid and in his eyes there is no one who could possibly defeat Valentino. So the "Don't hurt her" line makes perfect sense to me.
The hotel isn't the path, Charlie is. The show only gives us flashes of her being insanely powerful (mostly during musical numbers), and because she never uses her power to hurt others or solve her problems, most sinners don't realize how formidable she is. The overlords all seem to recognize that she is possibly more powerful than they are. We are also shown her mask slipping for brief moments, and the demon princess showing through. Charlie is as much a part of Hell as any of the sinners. Her purity, hope, and innocence are a character that she CHOSE to be and a life she CHOSES to live. Through the series we can see that Angel, Vaggie, and Sir Pentius actually admire and respect her created persona a bit. Angel wouldn't care about Charlie getting hurt if he saw her as the insanely powerful demon - he sees her as the person she CHOSE to become, and wants to protect that person. She decided not to be a victim, or a product of the environment, or even a player in the game and is instead taking proactive steps to be the change she seeks. It's not about changing sinners, it's about being change.
I think if anything HB proved that even low rankings can be dangerous, Striker was just a imp and yet he hurt Stolas, maybe Angel knows Val has some kind of angelic weapon?
Honestly you would think the princess of hell wouldn't be such a pushover not even Rapunzel was this much of a pushover and she was sheltered way more than Charlie
Here’s my thought on Angel and Charlie’s relationship, what if it’s because she reminds him of his sister who is in heaven? Maybe she tried to help him while she was alive and now he’s afraid to disappoint another person close to him
1:04 The reason for extermination is still due to overpopulation, but not for the purpose of more room and resources, but because a larger population could mean a bigger army.
really wanting to see angel's story unfold and hopefully see the defeat of the V's. I am inclined to think Charlie could easily take on Val but Angel doesn't know and that's why he stopped her. or, maybe Angel was willing to protect Val because of what Angel got for selling his soul to Val. i hope we get to see what Angel got from selling his soul. or at least why he sold it to Val of all overlords.
Tbh Charlie would be better off somewhere else, because she is trying to help people that simply dont want to be helped at all. Angel and Carmilla aside, nobody in hell wants to be redeemed at all, as they would rather be sinful Worse is that this mindset comes from the most likely fabricated story of Lillith. Poor girl will have a mental episode if Vaggies doesnr manages to give her a reality check fast. As much as it pains her, she needs to realize Adam and Lute are right, sinners are deserving if their own damnation, and focus in either redeem people that actually want to be redeemes or in first solving the issues Lucifer and Lillith created for her. You cant help others change if you cant help yourself
I think the main problem with Charlie is that while her intentions are somewhat good, it doesnt fix the bigger issues that future sinners face daily in thier lives. It isnt enough to be nice daily and hope that the problem fixes itself on its own with enough effort and apologies. Charlie also has no experience even dealing with the amount of troubles her subjects have. Shes a well meaning induvidual, but has little experience or qualifications dealing with problems. And ehos to say future sinners would take advatage of her kindness and use yhe hotel as a freeloading area?
Not an addict so what do I know, but I'd argue that they need things like a bar in the hotel. You're not going to get sinners to quit cold turkey and they're going to relapse. You can't enable them, but it's better that they drink in the hotel where they won't get roofied and will be stopped when they've had too much, than let them leave and go to outside bars where they will be extremely unsafe and probably encouraged to drink until they can't anymore.
I honestly feel bad cause all she wants to do is help but inadvertently makes it worse, but she has changed some demons and I think the slow start of the games and trust exercise are to building blocks toward redemption
my wife pointed something out to me, That Lilith hasn't made contact in seven years, and that is ALSO the same amount of time that Alastor has been away. Then with how Alastor was acting while Lucifer was visiting... that might have been more than just pushing Lucifer's buttons because it was low hanging fruit. There could be some sort of a connection there between Alastor and Lilith. Maybe he made a deal with her, and that's who Husker was referring to that set him off. Or perhaps, the two met after she left Lucifer, and Alastor is gunning to try and become the next King of Hell, since it seems that Lilith was the real power behind the throne, and Lucifer has pretty much just given up and shut himself away from everything. I for one would not be opposed to Stepdaddy Alastor, and it would explain why he is very much trying to support Charlie and get close to her/protect her even though he doesn't believe that sinners can actually be redeemed. He truly protects the hotel, even from long time friends of his, and I don't think he would go that far if all of this was just a mild amusement for him.
If the hotel doesn't work, then what is Charlie going to do? Cause the exterminations gonna happen in 6 months. That is not enough time it's either. The demons are gonna have to fight back or they're gonna die
I think Charlie’s biggest issue is that she does NOTHING with the power she has. She tried helping Angel, but she let Valentino hurt him and walk all over her DESPITE the fact she could beat him bloody no question. Charlie needs to realize that, in order to help people, she needs to put her foot down and reject being passive.
I have a theory the angels will take advantage of Charlie’s hotel as a way to lure out the sinners that remained in hell for around 100 years ( sir pentious as a example since he died in 1888) And I think Sir pentious would be the first to die in the show. By die as in he graduated from the hotel and Adam along with the angels will pretend to welcome to heaven but once Charlie has her back turn the Angel will kill him with the angelic weapons Charlie will think sir pentious is enjoy heaven but she will discover that he was exterminated by Adam and she will unless her fury
She isn't even giving them therapy. Charlie is treating Angel Dust as if he is child, when in fact, he is a grown adult with severe trauma from life and in Hell. And she is now treating Sir Pentious same, like a kids. Sorry for my garbage English
Difference is the other is a kid that was actually successful at redeeming most, and the other is hundreds of years old who owns power and authority Having Charlie as her own foil is such an interesting take, can't wait to see more of her character development later on
I found it pretty concerning that not only did Charlie not recognise that Angel was being manipulated, she actively fell apart the moment she met resistance from one of the people she is supposedly acting as a one-person psychotherapy team for.
true he probably doesnt get it yet hes not gonna change overnight but seeing him start to trust the others the way vaggie got it to happen i think thats a sign of his growth.
It's also possible Angel has NO IDEA how strong Charlie is. He had no idea who Alastor was, and just because someone has a strong parent (Lucifer) doesn't mean the child will take after them. Her kind, gentle behavior makes her seem weak to sinners.
Charlie’s like one of those Christian camp counselors who treat the children in their care not only like babies but also like idiots. She thinks they don’t know any better. It’s not out of any sort of malice, but she’s too naive to think it’s more complex than that. The sinners mostly do know better and choose not to give up their sins. But she thinks she knows better than them, very much like her father.
Her heart is in the right place but she has bad execution. In real life, the kind of ruffians she's dealing with who barely get along are often banded together by a common trait or even enemy and that draws them closer as a team. At that point they work together as they're progressively taking everything seriously. Unfortunately in Charlie's case we're talking about seemingly hopeless individuals with a lot of baggage, some hiding behind a fake smile, and one very disturbed cleaning lady keeping them on edge. Her exercises were ... okay.... but I'd really like to see Vaggie take over a bit more as she's more direct while Charlie's waaay too passive (though with _some_ occasional boundaries). While it's welcome to see a hellborn entity be positive, it's way over the top and her dial needs to go from 11 down to maybe a 7. Maybe even a modest 6½.
Being the newest video, I wanted to say that Alastor could have been possibly in some other mythological realm as a vacation. That is if other mythological realms exist and Hazbin hotel has a similar afterlife physics to marvel (you goto the responding afterlife depending on what religion group you follow, plus your own values/karma).
Everything Charlie promises has failed. She said she could get heaven behind her plans, fail. Promises vaggie would be good at running trust exercises, fail. Swore she'd fix Angel's boss, fail. And in all three scenarios things ended up worse off (early extermination, vaggie upset, the entire thing with Angel and Val.) I'm starting to wonder if she's possibly cursed
The new episodes came out revealing heaven and emily and seph and that tye theiry of vaggie being a angel is true!she just felt bad kilikg demons charlie was shocked but wasnt mad
You know from episode 6 it hints that this was adam’s idea which seems to have Adam playing on sera’s insecurities and fears. Meaning either The book has some truths as sera talks about the uprisings or Adam lied to fuel his need to screw over Lilith and lucifer
Im going out on a limb and saying I agree with Alastor, even if she reformed every sinner, the angels and hierarchy of heaven will not let them enter. As alastor said in the pilot, they had their chance in life this is the price for their actions in life. Not to mention there is literally no need or craving for anyone to reform as everyone in the hotel now is either there for their own plans or forced by someone else. Regarding overlords and if they can hurt charlie, they most likely can. Maybe not kill her but definately can hurt or injure her. As none of them seems threatened by her, even in her demon form, most just laugh or smile like shes a joke. You can give someone all the power in the univese but if they have no knowledge or intention of how to use it, then it truly makes them the true weakling in the group.
From the trailer it does seem like in the end they end up fighting back against the extermination. Partly by physically fighting back and partly by foiling some sort of plan she mentions. IMHO if there is a happy ending it's going to be Charlie improving the lives of the sinners in hell rather than gelling them to heaven.
I think the problem is that Charlie is too Naive and doesn't really understand how the world around her works or how to redeem people properly. she means well and wants to help but lacks the understanding or knowledge to make it realistically work. she's powerful but doesn't use that power to any real degree and she's a real push over. she's also delusional thinking life is like a Disney film and doesn't understand how the world works so she doesn't have a realistic approach on how to achieve her goals, dooming the whole thing to fail unless she can gain the wisdom and knowledge to make this realistically work, or find someone to help who does. and all her actions, even if well intended and are just making things worse. making Angels life harder and making heaven approve less of the idea.
I’m sure Charlie is too optimistic and too extroverted to even think sinners deserve to die because of the heaven industry but that’s because she needs to try her best to explain her plans of redemption to sinners.
I completely see it. In the show I'd say it's even being set up to be expanded on as the show progresses. It's as they say, you can't help someone who don't want help. Charlie being this one exception in hell puts her in a whole other world from all the other inhabitants. It could be interesting if Charlie's really trying this for a more selfish reason.
Charlie does not understand the complexity of human relationships as her opinions on what makes a person good is superficial at best. While Charlie has good intentions ultimately the lack of understanding the human experience leads to the distress caused to the characters. Which was why when Charlie took a step back, sinners like Husker and Angel could show each other empathy through their pain. While I don't think Charlie herself can redeem sinners since she can't understand the depth of their emotional state, she can provide an environment where sinners can help themselves and their peers.
Check out our Five Nights at Freddy's Review:
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Charlie has been making things worst ever since so I think that Adam and Lute should attack her and terminate her once and for all
🤔Hold on hold on I just realized something Charlie’s not just trying to redeem sinners is Charlie a people pleaser😮?
I want to know what the connection could be between Allistar and Lilith, or if it's just a coincidence that it's been 7 years since they *both* disappeared.
Like video
i’m gald you made this instead of rosie
Ah yes the theory I voted for on every poll but it kept losing 💀
I voted for this one too
Same
Same
Too real
Same
At least Charlie learned how to set boundaries with her colleagues.
Yeah unlike a certain imp xD
@@no_0riginality937 exactly except Charlie doesn’t ruin relationships and burn bridges along the way.
@@rainbowquartz9513
Even if she does it’s purely by accident or with no ill intent
@@no_0riginality937 true at least Charlie learns through her mistakes.
No como blitz creo
Husk nailed Charlie perfectly. She wants to fix everyone's problems but doesn't know how to fix her own. Her problem is that she does not know how to accept her place or power. We see this in her discomfort at the thought of using her power against Val.
The other problem she has is being raised in the confinement of Royalty. This is a theme Viv uses in Helluva. Like Stolas she is constrained by being raised in safety and privilege. She is naturally empathetic. But she doesn't know how to connect to people who have lead horrible lives. Her lessons and ideas are seen as well meaning but fall on deaf ears. She can't connect.
Its not teaching demons how to behave that she provides. Its a safe place for hurt and damaged people to heal with the help of others there. And in order to hold that together she is going to have to learn to control and use her power. Because there are people in Hell that prey upon damaged people. Healing them cuts into their power. So they will come for her. She will have to defend.
She also has a bit of a savior complex
@@PhoenixMerlyn69that’s what husk is describing anyways
Charlies think she can help
But she will end up ethire killed or succeeded or broken
@@LolAlosh Pretty sure the end game is Charlie and Emily initiating a revolution in each of their realms. Both Heaven and Hell are out of balance and in need of change. Charlie and Emily are that change. There may be some struggle with that change but I think they will be able to bring it about by convincing the current tops to join in their vision. The final conflict is likely to be a combination of Charlie vs Alastor and a third hidden person behind the Vees. Likely Eve. Whether Alastor joins her or fights her in a three way battle with Charlie is unclear. But thats just my best guess right now.
@@hurin1 charlie just wants to fix everything and everyone but can't understand some pepole are just irredeemable Which make me belive that will lead to her death
I think that Angel Dust said Charlie's making things worse only because he wanted her to leave the studio before Valentino could hurt her. This was more like "Shoo The Dog"/"Break Her Heart To Save Her" moment. At the end of episode 4 Angel fogave Charlie and understood that she's just trying to help everyone.
wich is funny cus charlie is like the 3rd most powerful demon in hell but angle prolly doesnt realize det
@@DEMONSQAUD well shes being pushed around by her underlings which she lets happen so obviously angel thinks shes just a total weakling, and i don't blame him.
@@opportunity3278 You may be right. I guess that only after the episode 5, in which we'll meet Lucifer, Angel finally realises that Charlie's dad is THE DEVIL and that she's half as powerful (if not as powerful) as him.
Yeah, which is similar to how many try to help people with abusive relationships. The abuser only gets worse and tries to hurt more people but it will cost them in the end of the line
@@agsdragon5475 Well said, bro. I hope someday Valentino will get hit with laser-guided karma. Either he'll be killed by one of the Exorcists during the next extermination or he'll lose his power over Angel Dust and/or his status as an Overlord.
She’s so optimistic. A source of light in this underworld yet it blinds her to what should be obvious.
Just being nice isn’t going to make people change. Especially if they don’t want to
That's true, but even someone like Charlie can learn a thing or two.
True but she can definitely help those who want to get on the path of redemption and help lead them down it
Yeah but I love that she is written that way, she's a good protagonist.
We don’t fix such a complex problem with songs. We see that some of the sinners still have positive in them but are too broken to do anything about it ( Angel Dust, Husk, Sir Pentious...), even up to the highest level (Carmilla and Zestial) However Charlie does not have the will to use an extreme method that would be extremely hypocritical on his part as to use the power of his father or to force everyone on their knees with his angelic/demonic powers to force them to listen. It is therefore stuck between an extremely cruel world making redemptions impossible and change its strength but a forced redemption is not a redemption, just another phase of the violence of hell. Ironically enough, the war against paradise may seem the least bad choice for hell but also the one that can lead to total extermination. I feel a little sorry for Charlie
@@clemdarkangel they maybe sinners but their still human and like all humans if they wanted to they can change for better or worse they just need a little help to do so
I think this will be her essential arc. She has really good intentions, but since she herself is already a really kind, selfless person, she doesn't have a great grasp on *what* redemption actually is. I think rn she sees it as just changing the coat of paint. Instead of insulting people, compliment them! Instead of destroying stuff, create stuff! She doesn't realize that a crucial part of redemption, is recognizing your shortcomings, grieving what caused those shortcomings properly, then working on them specifically for their own health/wellbeing.
Ooo this is good 👀
Damn this right here is good!
She needs to hire a therapist and a personal rehab and have someone coach and train her teach her how to understand people even with flaws and how to work with them to understand them better to help them change for the better
What I wonder is... she IS indeed already so kind. She is in Hell because sh was born there, not because of any sin she committed; she's clearly true to her father's original angelic nature.
If Heaven was accepting anyone, surely she should be on the list? And yet thy treat HER like dirt. Given how much worse everyone else is, there is no hope.
Charlie is a literal princess. She can't understand the demons because she has been sheltered from it by her parents. Hence her camp style activities. She can't fathom drug addiction or what drives people to it. An honest talk with Angel Dust would go a long way to fixing that.
I was thinking the same thing she's lived a sheltered life that's why most demons there don't take her to seriously
This is actually more appropriate any people think. I mean the Road to Hell is Paved with GOOD Intentions.
Agreed. Charlie seems to think if you just do good thing and nice thing for people they will destroy be good. But I wonder if this is just cause she really hiding from her own issue and just think she being nice is enough
@@Orsonfoe It's likely gonna play on the idea that all the stuff in that book in the opening is nothing but propoganda horseshit. Lucifer and Lilith actually were 100% at fault and Adam is justified in his rage and hatred of Sinners, thus Charlie as their child feels obligated to make up for their mistakes since neither of them cares about it.
I really hope it turns out Heaven isn't evil or even that strict and that Charlie has been lying to herself for centuries,
She does help them get on the path of redemption and help lead them down it but she clearly can’t do it alone fortunately she’s not alone
What she's building is more like an 8 lane highway
@@Orsonfoe I think it stems more from her quite literally being the most sheltered kid in hell. She has her own issues but I don't think she is trying to be nice I think she is just nice and doesn't realize that her efforts are not very effective because her struggles are probably very minor compared to most of hell.
I have a theory that the "sign in" form at the embassy was actually a sign off form for moving the extermination up six months. She's so trusting she didn't even read it in full, and if true she really did make things worse.
That's what I don't get why is the princess of hell so naïve , innocent is fine but naïve at first I thought she was faking it but now. Lucy depressed so get why he let that happen but her mom gives off girlboss vibes
@@wolfsbanealphas617
Honestly it's a breath of relief and fresh air to have a nice main protagonist in an adult animated show who actually acts like a true hero main protagonist in kids shows Charlie and her friends girlfriend and father would fit right in with kids shows.
I really want to know when Charlie is going to use her demonic abilities to actually fight back instead of being a little bit of a pushover. I know she can do it, but I wonder when
I definitely think that if Angel hadn’t stopped it could’ve very likely happened
We might see it happen at some point, there were few instances where she was about to lose temper like when she spoke with Adam and Lute.
If Angel didn’t stop her, she probably my would have wiped Val from existence lol, but Angel probably stopped that with either doesn’t know she’s is very fucking powerful, or it would ruin her stance as a nice person and sinners and demons would fear her and come to the hotel out of fear
Maybe when she's pushed too far or decides enough's enough.
@@RiptoGaktthe only way she's going to be pushed too far if something happens to Veggie
As bad as the situation became in episode 4, I also think it's probably an eye opener/hard lesson for Charlie; that people's problems and traumas aren't "easy to fix". She's pretty naive when it comes to the reason why people sin, and believes it to stem from surface level reasons such as "not getting enough hugs as a kid" judging from the play that she put together.
She is willing to put in the effort though, the Hazbin Hotel is a testament to that, and I think Angel's Dust situation is a step for Charlie in recognizing the complexities of peoples' situations/problems.
Charlie is trying to help people who more often than not dont want the help. She broke many boundries, in fact she more than likely made Angel's 'work' for Valantino worse for him for getting involved.
Well was she REALLY just trying to help..??
She was there to get Angel back for the hotel and she was advertising to his co-workers mid-shoot.
When she ACTUALLY had a reason to step in, she backed off despite previously ignoring Angel and his feelings.
She also kinda made it about herself and how she felt when she kept apologizing but didn't actually STOP.
Her fixation on her hotel doesn't seem be purely about helping people.
@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty then what is it about then? Genuinely asking
Yes, she definitely made things worse for Angel, but purely because Val is a piece of sh*t. He knows that Angel wouldn't dare ask charlie to help him break free, but he still uses the opportunity to slap Angel around and reinforce his control on him. It's like an abusive partner that had the police called on them by one of the neighbors, and as soon as the cops are gone they punish the abused victim for 'daring' to try to get help. Did the neighbor make things worse for the victim by trying to intervene? Yes, but what were they supposed to do, stand by and ignore the screams? Let's not forget who's fault is that Angel's life looks the way they look. Yes, Charlie is very ill prepared for the undertaking of reforming sinners and she has far less to lose than the people she is trying to reform, and yes, angel is indeed the one who turned to drugs in the first place, but neither of them is Valentino
@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty Considering her father is literally the sin of Pride personified, it kinda makes sense for her to make everything about herself or in this case her goals like the hotel, while ignoring everything else. Pride runs in the family afterall
@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty
She doesn’t mean to come off as selfish. Her care for others is genuine. She backed off because she realized she crossed boundaries and even learned by asking Husk to make sure Angel is okay and to NOT force him back to the hotel.
I love how the show is handling Charlie's toxic positivity and nativity, in a lesser show/movie Charlie's actions would be considered good and Angel would be the villain for calling her out
I mean, that's kinda how it is tho.
She IS good
@@bluebellsforever but she’s not uplifted for toxic positivity and is held accountable
@@SirToaster9330 when ? Those things are never said by any character.
toxic positivity is good tho, the only time it's bad is twitter and sonic discussion.
@@bluebellsforever
I like Charlie and I like Sonic.
@@katelynthewhitewerewolf6376 so do i
I get that she tries to help, she wants to prove to her mom Lilith that her vision can come true, but sometimes most people solve their problems on their own, even when you want to help them
I think this whole 'learning how to actually HELP people' is going to be Charlie's character arc in general. She is a main protagonist, after all, the story wouldn't be very interesting if she didn't change and grow in some way. There was literally no one around to teach her how to help those around her in any way deeper than the surface, and dealing with traumatic and self-destructive issues is far more complicated. Learning how to actually do what she wants to without letting her hopes be crushed is going to be her journey, just like Angle's is going to be reclaiming his self-worth and autonomy outside of a life full of toxic influences.
Having someone who believes in him unconditionally *is* helpful for Angle, and he does realize that Charlie has no way to understand exactly what he is going through, but it isn't enough on its own. Charlie trying to help and finding her simple and surface understandings only made the situation worse will at the least push her to try listening more, even if there is still a long way to go before she can actually help anyone be better functioning.
This was briefly covered in The Hazbin Tapes, but riddle me this:
If a sinner goes through with Charlie’s plans and really wants to change, what happens when they’ve “redeemed” themselves? Do they just magically teleport into heaven? Are they shot out of a cannon straight up to the pearly gates?
And what can Charlie do to guarantee the sinners won’t fall back on their old habits and sinful ways once they’re in heaven?
Her goal is noble, but she doesn’t know what she’s doing at all.
Charlie isn’t remotely qualified to help the sinners. She may be in Hell but her life experiences severely limit her insight into why people adopt poor behaviors and thus limits her efforts to change them. Her morality play made it very clear that she has a childish and superficial understanding of why people do ‘bad’ things.
I don’t know if she’s just going to persist in being a constant ray of blind optimism or if her arc will lead her to actually listen and understand the people she’s trying to help.
At best, it seems like the only positive impact she’s having is allowing a circumstance where sinners can develop positive bonds with each other; not just through shared experiences but also through their mutual insights on how each of them got to where they are (best exemplified by Husk and Angel).
So either Charlie gets out of her own way or she develops the maturity and experiences to have more meaningful interactions with the sinners.
Honestly I want to see how Camila and her daughters found out they were being spied on by one of the Egg Bois and think it was Pentious who spied of them and knows of who killed the angel. Not to mention she might summon him and kill the eggs! To avoid the secret comming out since no one has heard of it yet….then kill Pentious now the eggs might’ve spilled the beans and or Pentious didn’t believe it, but connected the dots, and we’ll…PENTIOUS RUN!
I feel like they would go after Alastor. I don´t really think that they know that the eggs belong to Pentious, and even if, Alastor was the one walking around with them. He brought one of them with to the meeting (No, they defenitly DID notice that!) and then after the meeting that one egg stayed in the building for a while and told Alastor something when he came out. How would they know about the last part? Remember, right outside was a security camera. If that thing doesn´t record sound it would still show Alastor talking to the Egg Boy, wich would look *extremly* sus. Speaking of sus, Zestial also seems to be suspicious of Alastor when they were talking on their way to the meeting. He is defenitly supecting that he is up to something.
it's kinda funny how convenient is that Charlie doesn't try to order Valentino since she is in fact the very daughter of Lucifer. How the only thing that stops her from doing that is "Imposing myself is so meaaaaaan!" The classic "Oh I could do it, I just don't feel like it". Which, considering she could save Angel by doing that, is a bit of a coward thing to do, specially since she is so invested in "saving her people"
I am also impressed how everyone treats her like she is not who she is, how easy Valentino Licks her arm instead of being more weary what doing that could mean to him. Is... Charlie famous for being a doormat in this universe?
Literally nobody respects her. At least not in that way. So yes. She is just a well known doormat
She's blissfully ignorant and naïve.. she has a very optimistic teenage mentality amongst all the other demonic masterminds around her. I think it's incredibly annoying but i think it's because she's literally half angel half demon or whatever.
It's highly probable. She is, after all, a literal princess and has been kept largely separate from the rest.
@@BrokensoulRider I get she might try to be... making Angel leave Val his choice but considering he is under contract it still feels either coward on her part or just bad writting. I just hope the end makes more sense because it's going too fast and it starts to feel like a lot of things don't matter at this point. We'll just have to see.
The only reason it feels too fast is because of how little episodes they were given to get this done. With the success of the first season we'll hopefully have more in sseason 2. With how a lot of shows lately have been flopping massively, are you really surprised that they were concerned with how much they threw at this?@@fmor2779
I think that’s where her arc is going. She wants to help people, wants to earn the acceptance and respect of hell, but doesn’t know how to do it yet. In masquerade she went into Angel’s workplace, not realizing just how dangerous or abusive Valentino was. However, she recognized afterwards just how much she’d screwed up, recognized she needed to work on boundaries, and apologized to Angel without actually expecting him or asking him to forgive her, which was why she was so moved when he genuinely forgave her and thanked her for caring.
Her niceness in the story is portrayed as both a strength and a flaw. It makes the people around her feel safe and accepted by her, but also means she doesn’t know how to actually deal with or interact with others on their own level. That’s why Husk was able to get Angel to open up when Charlie couldn’t. He was able to get at Angel’s level and support him in an informed capacity. Charlie cares, but she doesn’t understand. As the show goes on and she interacts with the residents more I think we’ll see her mature a good bit. Maybe not a huge amount in the first season, but as the show goes on.
People don’t change, but they can heal and get better.
Charlie being her own foil is definitely going to be an interesting plot line that this series is going to explore. Husk saying she's too busy trying to fix everyone else's problems instead of her own is gonna come back
I think Charlie's main problem is that she's still imature (she's very privileged) and has nowhere to find guidance, as she said herself in the pilot, she doesn't know what she's doing. I believe that, with time, Charlie will become more mature and learn better ways to help. I agree that good intentions alone doesn't always help, but good intentions + genuine effort does. I think that she's already helping, at least a little, by believing in Angel and Sir Pentious. Feeling supported and that someone believes in/cares for you can make a huge difference. Considering the comic canon, she touched Angel's heart by saying he could achieve redemption. And she getting moved by and saying that Angel's forgiveness was beautiful is very important emotionally for him in the long term, because that shows someone sees good in him. Besides, Charlie is constructing a home for them, a place where they can feel safe and believe that someone cares for them.
P. S: Thank you very much for your video! This is such an interesting discussion! ❤
Charlie's optimism comes off as naive, and the incident with Angel and Valentino may have proven to be her first true reality check. But with the next extermination on the horizon, I predict that she will learn to embrace her "mean" side very soon, so long as there's a chance that she can save anyone. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.
finale prediction: Charlie will have to come to terms with 1. that heaven/the angels are corrupt and will never let the sinners in, even if they do redeem themselves. 2. that she should instead do what Husk did for Angel Dust and help them accept themselves for who they are (faults and all,) not try to change them.
This would be a good character arc for Charlie, learning to fix her own problems instead of trying to fix others.
(p.s. Husk really had everyone's number in episode 4. I wonder if that was foreshadowing?)
It's definitely possible that if Heaven doesn't allow redeemed sinners in there the next best thing is make Hell a little better by changing how sinners treat each other.
I mean they do Need to change
@@leebulger7112I doubt that would happen
Well I think Charlie's problem is that she's a bit egotistical in assuming she knows what's best in other people's lives but yours works to
@@leebulger7112well It makes sense. Maybe Angels like the exorcists don't trust demons because they can be killed and they can't be sure if demons can be redeemed , and Adam could have had all the reasons in using an hologram , because maybe he didn't want to risk to be killed by Lucifer or his daughter , and that's Also why he was so rude to Charlie .
Cover the fact that husk said Alastor is on a leash (He sold his soul) Its in Episode 5 around 13:30
I think Charlie's issue are that she is naive, protected and can't seem to overcome the idea that hell doesn't think the way she does. Her happy day in hell seems to be filled with alot of 'cope' about how bad things are. And it's not surprising. When you grow up in a bad situation you tend to cope to believe it's not as bad as it seems, or purposely ignore things. Her extremely nice attitude is the polar opposite of what hell is all about. I believe her unwavering kindness and naivety has led her to a situation where she is in a situation she is not equipped for.
She believes she can tackle problems through 'summer camp' or 'disney' logic. That just being kind to others and open will automatically make them do the same. She hasn't had to experience the pain and suffering others have. Either her reputation as lucifers daughter has kept her safe, or she has been super sheltered until recently. Because of this she has no ability to really relate to people in any way. And alot of times being able to relate is a huge part of healing. Much like Husk and Angel, they both understand eachother cause of their shared situations. And in a way it allows them to both trust eachother, but also be able to share their burdens andnot feel alone. Charlie just kinda expects healing by just confronting things head on.
I think her biggest success is creating a safe place where people drop their defenses and trust eachother. And her kindness does work in some places, like Sir pentious. Once he was outed as a spy, she showed him just how actually kind and gentle she was by offeringhim a second chance when even he didn't think he deserved one. Her innocence can be both a weakness and a strength.
But the hotel itself is her biggest contribution so far. And I dare say her arc might be to learn that while she can't fix everyone problems(As Husk already called her out for) she can facilitate people healing more passively.
She's naive tbh
I mean, for starters, you cannot help people who do not want to be helped. And also without proper tools to get help, it’s pointless. it’s like asking someone to quit smoking cold turkey I mean someone could probably manage it, but it wouldn’t be easy and it probably wouldn’t last
I believe Charlie is going to learn more about what their problems are and help them with their redemption. Since the show is new, Charlie is still new at this redemption system.
But I'm excited to see how Charlie will grow in the later episodes and seasons
Somehow, there has to be a loophole somewhere in Val’s contract that Angel can find (when and if he’s sober enough) and use to get out of it.
I hope there's a loophole
I think we might already have a hint of what the loophole could be. Angel mentions that the contract allows Val to do whatever he want to Angel IN THE STUDIO. so if they can somehow find Angel work outside of Val's studio they might be able to break the contract.
Charlie is nice and has good intentions but shes blinded by her pride ( get it ) plus it feels more like a child trying to play a game then someone actually Trying to help people I mean i guess she is but maybe therapy is a good start closest to that is husk telling angel his a loser
To be Frank, she makes a great mother. But I don't think she can actually do the right thing you like He doesn't know how to pond that's one situation
I think they're going for a much simpler theme of showing that, just by caring, people bring eachother closer to who they want to be, and that's more valuable than redemption. I feel like that's especially true in episode 4 where the three mains who are focused on each learn something important that wasn't what they were trying to learn, and the resolution for each of them came in the form of understanding and accepting eachother.
I feel that Charlie's biggest issue is that she doesn't seem to have accepted that there is a portion of the population of Hell who don't want to leave, even if an opportunity were to be demonstrated to them. Alastor and Niffty are both right where they want to be for example. While idealism is a fine thing to have in someone trying to do something new, it is pushing her to try and force redemption on sinners who will reject it, and that is eventually going to backfire on her.
She ain't forcing but she's stupid
The line of “don’t hurt her” is indicative of the fact that to an abused person like Angel their abuser is all powerful. Logically he may know Charlie couldn’t be smacked around by Val but emotionally he’s terrified of his abuser hurting someone he cares about for trying to help him.
I quite honestly think it is very much possible for Charlie’s plan to come to fruition but it’ll ultimately happen in a way that’s completely opposite in a way she’ll least expect it
Maybe angel genuinely thinks Charlie is weak because he had seen other sinners use their powers before. However no one realizes exactly how powerful Charlie is because everyone assumes she is some bubbly air head. However once she shows what she can actually do, everyone including the overlords will have either respect or cation toward Charlie. Finally earning her title as princess of hell.
I still think Charlie can help sinners repent, she just needs help to do it right
She’s already doing a good job teaching them how to at behave better and be kinder but that’s just the surface, Vaggie helps lay down the ground rules to keep everyone in line, and it seems like they need each other to relate to, and let’s not forget she’s the one who brought them together in the first place, all she needs now is someone who can actually help them really tackle their issues and help them break free from their vices
Still this doesn’t change the fact that Charlie is an important part of the process she just can’t do it alone
Ha you nailed it, her singsong clappy distractions and crayon drawings are *exactly* daycare material XD She's gonna have to learn a God lesson - people doing things just because you tell them to is meaningless, they have to choose it.
I think Charley need to focus on what they need rather what she thinks they need she needs to start helping them with thier internal demons before they can start trying to redeem themselves. She needs to be more of a therapist and sponsor rather than a baby sister
She's a privileged "ally"
She has all the power to protect her own kingdom and make it a better place, but she goes about it the wrong way, putting others at risk because, whether consciously or otherwise she's constantly putting herself and her desires for the hotel first.
If she wanted to help, she'd have put her foot down and said enough. The Vees would have not have even formed and she would have been in that meeting with the overlords.
She has all the power to fix Hell's problems. And does NOTHING.
She needs to understand being more authoritative with her power is not mean
She also has a savior complex
@@viewer6152 A “savior complex” has NOTHING to do with Jesus
Not really
Charlie's isnt strong
She have power but don't know how to use them addam would have almost killed her add lucfire didn't even bother to do anything to help her ethire
I do like the connection of power between Lilith and her power of songs and important moments in the show where they sing, perhaps indicating a fundemental power everywhere (heaven and hell) of song.
You may have a point: as long as Valentino owns Angel's soul, he has to stay in Hell no matter what. Unless this contract can somehow be broken. Alastor is an overlord just like Val, so if there's an exit clause, he could help Angel render his contract with Val null and void. For the right price of course.
I think she's way out of her depth but is the only one actually capable of making things work. I think the best way to prove the issue is to look at husk. Husk is probably the most qualified to actually run the hotel based on how he worked with Angel. Husk might not have the worst life in hell, but he definitely had one of the biggest falls from grace, which gives him a good base to work off when addressing people at rock bottom. Mix that with his experience and husk can make a road map for sinners to get out of their short comings and find the power needed to improve themselves. The problem is husk would never have actually used the skill set because the same system that gave him these tools tore him down to a bitter husk with no hope. Charlie is the opposite she's inexperienced, but that privilege and lack of trauma is realistically the only reason she can back this project with everyone else recognizing just how uphill and thankless this project will be. Charlies also in a unique position to actually make the final connections that would be necessary. While it hasn't been very beneficial as of yet, she's one of the few demons who actually has connections to heaven and can see the end goal. The project needs her, but she needs to get out of her own way and start taking advice from the more grounded members of the crew.
I think Charlie wants to inspire people to be good rather than make them good. She talks about how her mother inspired their people before the extermination. She could be worried if she's too direct it could cause another retaliation like her mother caused. She's also pretty sheltered and doesn't conphrend why people sin in the first place because she's not human.
Give her time, she's new to this too. No one in Hell has ever considered therapy while there so I doubt Charlie had even heard of it herself. And, the fact that Angel's considering her feelings over his work and drugs proves he's improving as a person as well. And, I think the concern was that while Charlie is more powerful than Valentino, she would never choose to use that power because she's afraid of demons becoming afraid of her. She's too nice
Husk said it himself how Charlie wants to help others before herself, but I think her character arc is about coming to terms with her issues and then using that to truly rehabilitate the guests at the hotel.
Sometimes you need to make things worse before they can become better. For Angel's live to really improve, there will be either a fight with Valentino or a price will be paid.
Episode 5and 6. Wow. I know it all along about who Vaggie really was! Can’t wait for the next episode
Charlie needs to realize that some sinners can’t nor want to be saved. But if she knows a way to sever soul contracts, that might help.
A) If she did know how to do that, she’d have done it by now but also B) I agree with you there, I refuse to believe someone as evil as Valentino can be redeemed
new episodes made me think even more that alistor and charlies mum have been away in the same place, the unexplained commitment to charlie the same time difference and the you could call me her dad line from the new episode just screams that alistor and her are either close or he is in debt many thats what husk was talking about when he said alistor is on a lead himself
I think Angel sees Charlie as his sister and that's why he asked Valentino not hurt her.
Much as I love Vaggie I do think she deserves some blame for Charlie’s attempt at interceding on Angel’s behalf with Valentino. I mean it was her idea and she could have given her a bit more advice.
Charlie really comes across as an untrained therapist or social worker. She wants to do good and fix the problems but doesn't realize how nuianced and complex they are. She has a child's view of them. These are deep seeded issues in adults who have presumably spent decades thinking there is no reason for them to even try to get better and she has no proof of her methods being effective, and she's taking over simplified theraputic concepts to these massive multilayered issues.
Honestly I believe Charlie is eventually going to be forced to eventually choose between her personal morals and someone else's safety. A person who can fight back but doesn't isn't kind they are weak. The Kind reserve their wrath for the appropriate moment and then bring down The Hammer of Justice on the enemy that deserves it.
6:35 I think its come from fear of angel himself more than reality and also because Charlie peace full nature that most of sinners think of her as a weak person
5:46 Well, it isnt that big of a problem. If heven would realy want someone, I dont think any of the overlords would like to risk their endless life for one soul.
5:21 Actually that's not as bad as you think. A fanstory I read a little while back pointed out that having no bar would be worse as effectively you'd be forcing the people to go cold turkey almost immediately which would most likely result in a relapse rather than waning them gradually.
The problem is also this with angel that was husk helping him not Charlie her mind set makes it difficult for to understand and solve their problem which is sympathy but they need empathy also husk even states this she has problems herself which she hasn’t solved which makes me doubt her ability to help the sinners
An idea here, talk about the theory about the love potion we see all around the forth episode, how this relate to Valentino’s saliva and addictions power
There is a lot to explore in this topic, why Asmodeus( the embodiment lust) doesn’t agree with love potions
I don't think Angel has a clue of how powerful Charlie is, it's not like Charlie ever shows off her powers so in Angel's eyes Charlie probably looks like an innocent harmless kid and in his eyes there is no one who could possibly defeat Valentino. So the "Don't hurt her" line makes perfect sense to me.
The hotel isn't the path, Charlie is.
The show only gives us flashes of her being insanely powerful (mostly during musical numbers), and because she never uses her power to hurt others or solve her problems, most sinners don't realize how formidable she is. The overlords all seem to recognize that she is possibly more powerful than they are. We are also shown her mask slipping for brief moments, and the demon princess showing through. Charlie is as much a part of Hell as any of the sinners.
Her purity, hope, and innocence are a character that she CHOSE to be and a life she CHOSES to live. Through the series we can see that Angel, Vaggie, and Sir Pentius actually admire and respect her created persona a bit. Angel wouldn't care about Charlie getting hurt if he saw her as the insanely powerful demon - he sees her as the person she CHOSE to become, and wants to protect that person.
She decided not to be a victim, or a product of the environment, or even a player in the game and is instead taking proactive steps to be the change she seeks. It's not about changing sinners, it's about being change.
When he mentioned that Heaven’s standards are really high. That makes me think there’s something fishy going on up there as it is down in hell,
I think if anything HB proved that even low rankings can be dangerous, Striker was just a imp and yet he hurt Stolas, maybe Angel knows Val has some kind of angelic weapon?
Honestly you would think the princess of hell wouldn't be such a pushover not even Rapunzel was this much of a pushover and she was sheltered way more than Charlie
Here’s my thought on Angel and Charlie’s relationship, what if it’s because she reminds him of his sister who is in heaven? Maybe she tried to help him while she was alive and now he’s afraid to disappoint another person close to him
1:04 The reason for extermination is still due to overpopulation, but not for the purpose of more room and resources, but because a larger population could mean a bigger army.
really wanting to see angel's story unfold and hopefully see the defeat of the V's. I am inclined to think Charlie could easily take on Val but Angel doesn't know and that's why he stopped her. or, maybe Angel was willing to protect Val because of what Angel got for selling his soul to Val. i hope we get to see what Angel got from selling his soul. or at least why he sold it to Val of all overlords.
Tbh Charlie would be better off somewhere else, because she is trying to help people that simply dont want to be helped at all. Angel and Carmilla aside, nobody in hell wants to be redeemed at all, as they would rather be sinful
Worse is that this mindset comes from the most likely fabricated story of Lillith. Poor girl will have a mental episode if Vaggies doesnr manages to give her a reality check fast. As much as it pains her, she needs to realize Adam and Lute are right, sinners are deserving if their own damnation, and focus in either redeem people that actually want to be redeemes or in first solving the issues Lucifer and Lillith created for her. You cant help others change if you cant help yourself
I think the main problem with Charlie is that while her intentions are somewhat good, it doesnt fix the bigger issues that future sinners face daily in thier lives.
It isnt enough to be nice daily and hope that the problem fixes itself on its own with enough effort and apologies. Charlie also has no experience even dealing with the amount of troubles her subjects have.
Shes a well meaning induvidual, but has little experience or qualifications dealing with problems.
And ehos to say future sinners would take advatage of her kindness and use yhe hotel as a freeloading area?
Not an addict so what do I know, but I'd argue that they need things like a bar in the hotel. You're not going to get sinners to quit cold turkey and they're going to relapse. You can't enable them, but it's better that they drink in the hotel where they won't get roofied and will be stopped when they've had too much, than let them leave and go to outside bars where they will be extremely unsafe and probably encouraged to drink until they can't anymore.
I honestly feel bad cause all she wants to do is help but inadvertently makes it worse, but she has changed some demons and I think the slow start of the games and trust exercise are to building blocks toward redemption
my wife pointed something out to me, That Lilith hasn't made contact in seven years, and that is ALSO the same amount of time that Alastor has been away. Then with how Alastor was acting while Lucifer was visiting... that might have been more than just pushing Lucifer's buttons because it was low hanging fruit.
There could be some sort of a connection there between Alastor and Lilith. Maybe he made a deal with her, and that's who Husker was referring to that set him off. Or perhaps, the two met after she left Lucifer, and Alastor is gunning to try and become the next King of Hell, since it seems that Lilith was the real power behind the throne, and Lucifer has pretty much just given up and shut himself away from everything.
I for one would not be opposed to Stepdaddy Alastor, and it would explain why he is very much trying to support Charlie and get close to her/protect her even though he doesn't believe that sinners can actually be redeemed. He truly protects the hotel, even from long time friends of his, and I don't think he would go that far if all of this was just a mild amusement for him.
I'm with you on this theory!
If the hotel doesn't work, then what is Charlie going to do? Cause the exterminations gonna happen in 6 months. That is not enough time it's either. The demons are gonna have to fight back or they're gonna die
I think Charlie’s biggest issue is that she does NOTHING with the power she has. She tried helping Angel, but she let Valentino hurt him and walk all over her DESPITE the fact she could beat him bloody no question. Charlie needs to realize that, in order to help people, she needs to put her foot down and reject being passive.
I have a theory the angels will take advantage of Charlie’s hotel as a way to lure out the sinners that remained in hell for around 100 years ( sir pentious as a example since he died in 1888)
And I think Sir pentious would be the first to die in the show. By die as in he graduated from the hotel and Adam along with the angels will pretend to welcome to heaven but once Charlie has her back turn the Angel will kill him with the angelic weapons
Charlie will think sir pentious is enjoy heaven but she will discover that he was exterminated by Adam and she will unless her fury
Imma be honest Charlie is the equivalent of Steven both mc don’t understand the gravity of the situation in their story
She isn't even giving them therapy.
Charlie is treating Angel Dust as if he is child, when in fact, he is a grown adult with severe trauma from life and in Hell. And she is now treating Sir Pentious same, like a kids.
Sorry for my garbage English
@@terra4822 nah Man U right Charlie can’t even help herself
Difference is the other is a kid that was actually successful at redeeming most, and the other is hundreds of years old who owns power and authority
Having Charlie as her own foil is such an interesting take, can't wait to see more of her character development later on
I found it pretty concerning that not only did Charlie not recognise that Angel was being manipulated, she actively fell apart the moment she met resistance from one of the people she is supposedly acting as a one-person psychotherapy team for.
i think serpentious having someone actually willing to forgive him made him willing to take that first baby step torwards being better.
true he probably doesnt get it yet hes not gonna change overnight but seeing him start to trust the others the way vaggie got it to happen i think thats a sign of his growth.
It's also possible Angel has NO IDEA how strong Charlie is. He had no idea who Alastor was, and just because someone has a strong parent (Lucifer) doesn't mean the child will take after them. Her kind, gentle behavior makes her seem weak to sinners.
Charlie’s like one of those Christian camp counselors who treat the children in their care not only like babies but also like idiots. She thinks they don’t know any better. It’s not out of any sort of malice, but she’s too naive to think it’s more complex than that. The sinners mostly do know better and choose not to give up their sins. But she thinks she knows better than them, very much like her father.
She's prideful, that's her issue.
@@the_real_tabbyWasn't That Her Father's Too?
Her heart is in the right place but she has bad execution. In real life, the kind of ruffians she's dealing with who barely get along are often banded together by a common trait or even enemy and that draws them closer as a team. At that point they work together as they're progressively taking everything seriously. Unfortunately in Charlie's case we're talking about seemingly hopeless individuals with a lot of baggage, some hiding behind a fake smile, and one very disturbed cleaning lady keeping them on edge. Her exercises were ... okay.... but I'd really like to see Vaggie take over a bit more as she's more direct while Charlie's waaay too passive (though with _some_ occasional boundaries). While it's welcome to see a hellborn entity be positive, it's way over the top and her dial needs to go from 11 down to maybe a 7. Maybe even a modest 6½.
Being the newest video, I wanted to say that Alastor could have been possibly in some other mythological realm as a vacation. That is if other mythological realms exist and Hazbin hotel has a similar afterlife physics to marvel (you goto the responding afterlife depending on what religion group you follow, plus your own values/karma).
no in the new episode husk said alastor was also on a leash
Everything Charlie promises has failed. She said she could get heaven behind her plans, fail. Promises vaggie would be good at running trust exercises, fail. Swore she'd fix Angel's boss, fail. And in all three scenarios things ended up worse off (early extermination, vaggie upset, the entire thing with Angel and Val.) I'm starting to wonder if she's possibly cursed
The new episodes came out revealing heaven and emily and seph and that tye theiry of vaggie being a angel is true!she just felt bad kilikg demons charlie was shocked but wasnt mad
I can only imagine what would’ve happened if Charlie took out Valentino?
I really want the show to dig into the characters lives on earth and focus on fixing the core flaws that got them stuck in hell.
You know from episode 6 it hints that this was adam’s idea which seems to have Adam playing on sera’s insecurities and fears. Meaning either
The book has some truths as sera talks about the uprisings or
Adam lied to fuel his need to screw over Lilith and lucifer
Im going out on a limb and saying I agree with Alastor, even if she reformed every sinner, the angels and hierarchy of heaven will not let them enter. As alastor said in the pilot, they had their chance in life this is the price for their actions in life. Not to mention there is literally no need or craving for anyone to reform as everyone in the hotel now is either there for their own plans or forced by someone else.
Regarding overlords and if they can hurt charlie, they most likely can. Maybe not kill her but definately can hurt or injure her. As none of them seems threatened by her, even in her demon form, most just laugh or smile like shes a joke. You can give someone all the power in the univese but if they have no knowledge or intention of how to use it, then it truly makes them the true weakling in the group.
1:24 each time I see this inage it makes me question why the lowest right "noteline?" has no notes/music on it as compared to every other one.
Probably doesn't mean anything or does it?
From the trailer it does seem like in the end they end up fighting back against the extermination. Partly by physically fighting back and partly by foiling some sort of plan she mentions. IMHO if there is a happy ending it's going to be Charlie improving the lives of the sinners in hell rather than gelling them to heaven.
Yup
I think the problem is that Charlie is too Naive and doesn't really understand how the world around her works or how to redeem people properly. she means well and wants to help but lacks the understanding or knowledge to make it realistically work. she's powerful but doesn't use that power to any real degree and she's a real push over. she's also delusional thinking life is like a Disney film and doesn't understand how the world works so she doesn't have a realistic approach on how to achieve her goals, dooming the whole thing to fail unless she can gain the wisdom and knowledge to make this realistically work, or find someone to help who does. and all her actions, even if well intended and are just making things worse. making Angels life harder and making heaven approve less of the idea.
You have a knack for taking something I say "no that's a stupid theory" and you make it actually make sense. Much like the Camilla and vaggie theory
I'm a succubus/incubus, so I'm in the five percent. Shout out what kind of demon you are!
Here's the thing though..... you don't have a polite conversation with someone who commits genocide you dethrone them.
I’m sure Charlie is too optimistic and too extroverted to even think sinners deserve to die because of the heaven industry but that’s because she needs to try her best to explain her plans of redemption to sinners.
The fandom likes her so much so she just can’t do wrong, even if she does wrong she does it unintentionally.
I GOT A VERY BAD FEELING CHARLIE GOING TO MAKING SUPER WORSE IN HELL.
I completely see it. In the show I'd say it's even being set up to be expanded on as the show progresses.
It's as they say, you can't help someone who don't want help.
Charlie being this one exception in hell puts her in a whole other world from all the other inhabitants. It could be interesting if Charlie's really trying this for a more selfish reason.
"If you think this story has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."
Charlie does not understand the complexity of human relationships as her opinions on what makes a person good is superficial at best. While Charlie has good intentions ultimately the lack of understanding the human experience leads to the distress caused to the characters. Which was why when Charlie took a step back, sinners like Husker and Angel could show each other empathy through their pain. While I don't think Charlie herself can redeem sinners since she can't understand the depth of their emotional state, she can provide an environment where sinners can help themselves and their peers.