I am a gay Yank, 80 years old who "came out" in May 1968 at age 24. Programs such as this are uplifting, refreshing and reassuring. I am a soccer (football) and rugby fan. I have always enjoyed the aggressive sports, which at times confused my straight friends. Being gay and aggressive seemed to them to be a contradiction. The "fear of queer" is more prevalent among men who have suppressed anxieties.
Jon and Mark! OMG! I stopped everything....to listen. Utterly Incredible! Brilliant! Down to earth, relatable and involved at the core of Football and indeed Sport. Plus your openness not least about your years struggling with your mental health will help so many. As I have stated before I am let's just say " older" than either of you by some margin and to have lived ( somehow! God knows how!) through decades of change within the " queer" community and the progress ( which I constantly say can be taken away in the blink of an eye) your journey, career and your attitude are simply Amazing! What a role model. You have proved so much and continue to do so. Thank you from my heart for this. This could and will be life changing for some person somewhere. Deeply appreciated. ❤💪👍👌
As a gay guy that loves sports and going to sports events, I do hate how nonexistent our community seems to be in sports. But that is up to us to change it.
I didn’t knew who Mark Mcadam are. But he is absolutely amazing. I wish there was more people like him in sports.. And I hope he finds a lovely partner
I listened on the phone to the podcast. I am a bit surprised you did not pick up on the devastating effects of bullying that Mark described. It is mind boggling and heartbreaking to hear he has been suicidal for 20 years because of it. A story that unfortunately hasn't got much better given the reports on male suicide.
I'm a 60 year old gay guy from Cape Town. I am - and always have been - a huge sports fan, especially rugby, cricket and soccer. I have lots of friends (also gay) who also enjoy sport).
Many years ago I wanted very badly to pursue a professional tennis career, as I had the talent and the confidence in my ability as a player…The only reason I never did was because of being gay. The sports world, despite always saying the right things publicly,privately is very homophobic and anti gay. Gay slurs are not only tolerated but in some cases routinely still used to berate the athlete’s performance. When you compete you must have, not only confidence in your abilities but also confidence in yourself as a person..Society may be a bit more accepting in supporting homosexuality, but the sports world is not any where close to that…
I had no idea. Love listening to you, watch you on Sky sports. There are so many Gay football fans, my husband (you wouldn’t know) and now me too. Thank you for speaking out.
Nice interview. Mark comes across as a likeable fella. I'm a football fan, I think that there are gay professional players out there but they prefer to keep their sexuality private. Their team mates and families may know but as it's their private life they want to keep it private. Across the world in major sports leagues like, baseball, basketball and hockey you can count the men who come out on one hand. Sports men are scrutinized much today, maybe gay sports men have decided that their gay life is for sorely their team mates and families knowledge.
Hi Jon, I have recently found your channel on TH-cam, and want to say what a great show you offer, and a fabulous presenter you are. I am so enjoying binge watching your interviews, with such a great diverse range of LGBTQ+ people, all with amazing and fascinating life stories. This is yet another great interview. Its funny being an older gay man, who actually loves many so I have different sports, which can be quite isolating, trying to find like minded people within the community. I love Football , actually watch Mark on Sky, love support Chelsea, previously been a season ticket holder, love England internationals, and watch matches very regularly. Mark is such a great guy, incredibly knowledgeable about his craft, his genuine love of the game comes across so well too, and his story was fascinating to listening to, very sad in places, but also uplifting. Its great that hes made such a success, and has a major career in a very highly competitive industry, and us s great role model for our community. Jon I Cant wait to see your other interviews. 🤍🫂🙏
Let's be honest and look at the nationalities who play in the premier league and look at the map of the world that highlights the countries that actively discriminate against gay people. Those guys would have been brainwashed by their culture to despise gay men. Then look at the players when they take the field, those who cross themselves, those who offer up their hands to heaven etc and know that religion is the main driving force behind homophobia. Look also at the countries that some of the owners come from. I'm not saying that every person from a particular country or religion would have a problem with a gay team member, but for sure many would. This is the closed environment that gay players are faced with, so it's no wonder that few come out and those that do do so after leaving the premier league. It could be that the terraces are the least of their worries.
What’s stopping people from coming out? 1) generations of culturally accepted bigotry 2) years of bullying and physical assault toward young men for seemingly slightly unmasculine 3) coaches failing to show that strength is about showing who you can build up instead of who you can tear down Why are we treating this as some great mystery? It’s old and basic and simple.
@@island97 Strictly speaking, you're right, but in the over-glamorised world of football, there is a lot of public curiosity about who is with who, and some straight players are not shy about appearing with attractive wives. The most difficult part of course is a gay player having to be vague and evasive about their social life, needing to self-censor what they say, because groups of people will chat about stuff they've done, and no reason to suppose footballers are any different.
@@tonybennett4159 no one wants to be known as the "gay footballer". Any player who comes out publicly will be labeled by the media as a 'gay footballer.' The same thing happened to Michael Sam in the NFL. These guys want to be known for their ability on the pitch, not their sexuality. Side note. I don't watch the NFL nor live in the US , but knew of Michael Sam bc it was a nonstop story in sports/main strean media for months when he got drafted and kiss his bf. I totally get why a gay player will keep this on the DL , because the media storm and ppl digging into their personal life will be insane .
There are gay football teams ,in the uk and all around the world , there must be gay professional football players in the men’s game , look at ladies football so many of them are gay , and it’s no problem at all ,
I feel we live in a misapprehension about gay culture in the West/UK. Media, politics, NHS and now bluechip business all have pushed a uni driven change in perceptions. But the truth is there are many pockets within even these drivers that have huge issues with homosexuality that are both male and female based heterodox biases. Not just pockets though as culture in the UK is morphing into a no longer Anglo-Saxon/JudoChistian majority. Plenty of religious based bias has in modern history been quashed a tad, but again we have landed in a real jumble of cultures that means what people say on the record does not reflect where personal feelings lay on the matter. Sport, in particular has a sort of microculture where, in the “changing room” men become emotionally intimate in some ways (incontinent even), and also very iron clad and assumptive in permissive expressions of ‘camp’ behaviour especially if not in jest but ID based effeminacy. This critical nature of and association with femme tacked onto gay is largely a built in phobia. You can trace it back to Rome critiquing Greek culture, and Greeks doing the same to Persians. In both cases there were acceptable forms of homosexual acts done by “straight” men (which could be said of some acts in football changing rooms too). Time and place seem to be pretty important, as aggressive competitive sports exclude and self select on this basis. Interestingly we all seem to behave as though women are the kinder and more accepting sex, which maybe true in a significant percentage of women. However what has driven female critique of gay male culture in the past 20 years (which has been to subtly stigmatise and encourage caretaker roles and perfunctory professional roles where gay men are expected to work all hours as alternate to the afore) has now seeped into critique of Lesbian culture (by pushing many young/developing lesbian women into identifying out of being women all together too). I could go on about this but it is important to understand these behaviours are fear based tribal behaviours.. very old, prehistoric pack like behaviours that when not adhered to can be savagely reacted to, but more often than not the real torture is the turning of a thousand heads. This is what I see and hear in sport. No one man or organisation set forth to do this, but with the expansion of multiculturalism we have a reaction toward multi-cultism as I coin it. Again, there is no one tangible source of the behaviour except to say that as we become more diverse in culture whilst painting on a veneer of singular and agreed upon codes of behaviour and acceptance or tolerance, the gravity to which our animal minds need to hold a safe tribal structure; we have sadly left an inevitable fracturing of our society. Things are not in fact getting better for gay men and women, they are getting worse. Yes if you went to uni, got a job as a manager in a large business with righteously ignorant do-gooders you could be forgiven to think DEI was “Qween!” This is not the general experience of young gay people, or those who are to some extent on the margins be it for reasons of mental health or disability. They are now the target of this tribalism, as they are instead of being allowed to be themselves are now prescribed a doctrine. And by God if they fail to live up to or perform to this doctrine you will see the same DEI services from Police, Medical Institutes, Charities, Schools/Universities, Media & Politics all turn their head and fail to provide. I empathise that football when you hit success, or even mild success is the be all. As a young man you are rocketed into a world that even a great education could not live upto in many ways. That is possibly why the choice to exclude yourself or choose a new path is no antidote to the problem, though, media has always been a bastion. And no doubt the need for total conformity to the tribe is unassailable. But think on lads, there are kids and adults who cant live that lie. Sadly for many of these “out” gays they are now out through an indoctrinated into performing to another gender conforming fiction. That to be a gay man is to either be highly sexual, highly attractive or highly female should you not be attractive in a conventional way. What this has done to us we are only just starting to admit to in some quarters (ie the Cass review). Truth is that a nation of any size can have a very flexible space for individuality when it is sure of its own cultural structure at large, so long as certain tenants are adhered to. If a nation continually splits itself due to tribalism as a reaction to “othering” experiences, or a need to apportion the breakdown of functional services a targeted pazzi. In some ways being closeted can be very helpful in that/this environment. I know this as I can force passing for straight myself. Men greet me better when I do, and so do women. If I went to apply for certain jobs I would play down any possible assertions to my sexuality, and for service based £10-£35per hour work, playing up my gay can go a long way to take away the suggestion that I may have dependants that may detract from a rota shift system. It’s just that cynically simple for gay men. You get asked to do different things, stay late, cover, setup or whatever. If I do work in my “straighter”guise, the expectations can be gruelling but they are normally set in stone or something near to it. The issues have changed over the past 2 decades, and while we claim the larger part of society has moved on from homophobia the reality is under the surface there has been a pernicious introduction and classification of gays as a lower cast. Frivolously protected but undermined all the same. Admitting you belong to that as a footballer who swims in the circles you have wont sit well. Moving past that and finding a smaller tribe is the only way it falters unless you are like me, able if not happy to perform to the crowd.
I would imagine players will be less likely to shower naked now because of social media and mobile phone cameras here there and everywhere. Always that chance of a naked pic leaking. I don't think it's because of some new moral code.
48:44 I'm really surprised he was bullied, given he isn't effeminate and played good football. He seems to be the ideal who other boys in school would want to follow. Either way school bullying is so damaging (as I remember). Lovely guy.
I think the commercial deals would flood in. The term "come out" annoys me. Come out of where exactly? People who need to know, i.e., family and friends, usually already know. They're the most important ones. Then it is up to the individual to tell whoever. Not feel pressured by media and society or "come out"
It's not just Football though, there aren't any openly gay male active Tennis players on the tour and in over 30 years of being a tennis fan, I've never known there to have been an openly gay male star
I think in football or every other kind of collectiv sport it doesn t matter if you are gay or not the thing is your capt the attention on individual part where your work with a team it s maybe better if you want to do a coming out ask your team if they will be support you for that i think it s more a question of team as a question individual don t forget straight don t have to do a coming in lol
I'm gay and I avidly watch most sports, even women's sports, so just let's say that gay men are a varied lot, not all to be shoved into the same pigeonhole.
Very beautiful and never loose yourselves with others ideas but to find yourselves with positivity always and excuse me host your wrong there’s more bi people then straight guy
I am a gay Yank, 80 years old who "came out" in May 1968 at age 24. Programs such as this are uplifting, refreshing and reassuring. I am a soccer (football) and rugby fan. I have always enjoyed the aggressive sports, which at times confused my straight friends. Being gay and aggressive seemed to them to be a contradiction. The "fear of queer" is more prevalent among men who have suppressed anxieties.
Wow, congratulations on making it to 80 years old. You are an inspiration
@@Themeparkanxiety Thanks, mate. I still get a thrill looking at hot men!
Amazing to see this....I'm openly gay and an avid celtic supporter we need more people like you to be brave strong 💪
Wow.
This video deserves a big audience.
Jon and Mark! OMG! I stopped everything....to listen. Utterly Incredible! Brilliant! Down to earth, relatable and involved at the core of Football and indeed Sport. Plus your openness not least about your years struggling with your mental health will help so many. As I have stated before I am let's just say " older" than either of you by some margin and to have lived ( somehow! God knows how!) through decades of change within the " queer" community and the progress ( which I constantly say can be taken away in the blink of an eye) your journey, career and your attitude are simply Amazing! What a role model. You have proved so much and continue to do so. Thank you from my heart for this. This could and will be life changing for some person somewhere. Deeply appreciated. ❤💪👍👌
As a gay guy that loves sports and going to sports events, I do hate how nonexistent our community seems to be in sports. But that is up to us to change it.
Im gay and absolutely love football and other sports but I can’t say I meet that many other gay guys into football
Because there aren't. Let's be honest, it's not ALWAYS about prejudice. Why are there so few female brick layers? Or bin collectors??
@@benfisher1376 not really a good comparison
I didn’t knew who Mark Mcadam are. But he is absolutely amazing. I wish there was more people like him in sports..
And I hope he finds a lovely partner
I listened on the phone to the podcast. I am a bit surprised you did not pick up on the devastating effects of bullying that Mark described. It is mind boggling and heartbreaking to hear he has been suicidal for 20 years because of it. A story that unfortunately hasn't got much better given the reports on male suicide.
I'm a 60 year old gay guy from Cape Town. I am - and always have been - a huge sports fan, especially rugby, cricket and soccer.
I have lots of friends (also gay) who also enjoy sport).
Hoping more gay footballers come out. This is good podcast
Nice interview!👍🏻👏🏻
Thank you! Appreciate the support
Many years ago I wanted very badly to pursue a professional tennis career, as I had the talent and the confidence in my ability as a player…The only reason I never did was because of being gay. The sports world, despite always saying the right things publicly,privately is very homophobic and anti gay. Gay slurs are not only tolerated but in some cases routinely still used to berate the athlete’s performance. When you compete you must have, not only confidence in your abilities but also confidence in yourself as a person..Society may be a bit more accepting in supporting homosexuality, but the sports world is not any where close to that…
WOW What a massively cool guy
Lovely guy and so refreshingly honest.
I had no idea. Love listening to you, watch you on Sky sports. There are so many Gay football fans, my husband (you wouldn’t know) and now me too. Thank you for speaking out.
The problem is to assume that all are straight until they tell their are not.
Exactly. Its like they "have" to come out publically to be gay? No way!
What a man! ❤
Nice interview. Mark comes across as a likeable fella.
I'm a football fan, I think that there are gay professional players out there but they prefer to keep their sexuality private. Their team mates and families may know but as it's their private life they want to keep it private. Across the world in major sports leagues like, baseball, basketball and hockey you can count the men who come out on one hand.
Sports men are scrutinized much today, maybe gay sports men have decided that their gay life is for sorely their team mates and families knowledge.
No first Justin fashanu....do your research
Hi Jon, I have recently found your channel on TH-cam, and want to say what a great show you offer, and a fabulous presenter you are. I am so enjoying binge watching your interviews, with such a great diverse range of LGBTQ+ people, all with amazing and fascinating life stories. This is yet another great interview. Its funny being an older gay man, who actually loves many so I have different sports, which can be quite isolating, trying to find like minded people within the community. I love Football , actually watch Mark on Sky, love support Chelsea, previously been a season ticket holder, love England internationals, and watch matches very regularly. Mark is such a great guy, incredibly knowledgeable about his craft, his genuine love of the game comes across so well too, and his story was fascinating to listening to, very sad in places, but also uplifting. Its great that hes made such a success, and has a major career in a very highly competitive industry, and us s great role model for our community. Jon I Cant wait to see your other interviews. 🤍🫂🙏
Thank you Richard 🏳️🌈
Let's be honest and look at the nationalities who play in the premier league and look at the map of the world that highlights the countries that actively discriminate against gay people. Those guys would have been brainwashed by their culture to despise gay men. Then look at the players when they take the field, those who cross themselves, those who offer up their hands to heaven etc and know that religion is the main driving force behind homophobia. Look also at the countries that some of the owners come from. I'm not saying that every person from a particular country or religion would have a problem with a gay team member, but for sure many would. This is the closed environment that gay players are faced with, so it's no wonder that few come out and those that do do so after leaving the premier league. It could be that the terraces are the least of their worries.
So right
It's not just homophobia they need to worry about. The gay mafia might get their claws into them.
Some straight men don’t like football as well, I am one of them
Lol im gay and i love playing football but hate watching it
My mantra: I live and happen to be gay. I am not "gay and therefore I live.""
What’s stopping people from coming out?
1) generations of culturally accepted bigotry
2) years of bullying and physical assault toward young men for seemingly slightly unmasculine
3) coaches failing to show that strength is about showing who you can build up instead of who you can tear down
Why are we treating this as some great mystery? It’s old and basic and simple.
Don't forget bigoted players from other cultures and how that would go down in a locker room environment.
Don't forget that when you're in such a minority the gay mafia might get their claws into you. The biggest threat to minorities are other minorities.
4) it's not the public business
@@island97 Strictly speaking, you're right, but in the over-glamorised world of football, there is a lot of public curiosity about who is with who, and some straight players are not shy about appearing with attractive wives.
The most difficult part of course is a gay player having to be vague and evasive about their social life, needing to self-censor what they say, because groups of people will chat about stuff they've done, and no reason to suppose footballers are any different.
@@tonybennett4159 no one wants to be known as the "gay footballer". Any player who comes out publicly will be labeled by the media as a 'gay footballer.' The same thing happened to Michael Sam in the NFL. These guys want to be known for their ability on the pitch, not their sexuality.
Side note. I don't watch the NFL nor live in the US , but knew of Michael Sam bc it was a nonstop story in sports/main strean media for months when he got drafted and kiss his bf.
I totally get why a gay player will keep this on the DL , because the media storm and ppl digging into their personal life will be insane .
There are gay football teams ,in the uk and all around the world , there must be gay professional football players in the men’s game , look at ladies football so many of them are gay , and it’s no problem at all ,
I feel we live in a misapprehension about gay culture in the West/UK. Media, politics, NHS and now bluechip business all have pushed a uni driven change in perceptions. But the truth is there are many pockets within even these drivers that have huge issues with homosexuality that are both male and female based heterodox biases. Not just pockets though as culture in the UK is morphing into a no longer Anglo-Saxon/JudoChistian majority. Plenty of religious based bias has in modern history been quashed a tad, but again we have landed in a real jumble of cultures that means what people say on the record does not reflect where personal feelings lay on the matter. Sport, in particular has a sort of microculture where, in the “changing room” men become emotionally intimate in some ways (incontinent even), and also very iron clad and assumptive in permissive expressions of ‘camp’ behaviour especially if not in jest but ID based effeminacy. This critical nature of and association with femme tacked onto gay is largely a built in phobia. You can trace it back to Rome critiquing Greek culture, and Greeks doing the same to Persians. In both cases there were acceptable forms of homosexual acts done by “straight” men (which could be said of some acts in football changing rooms too). Time and place seem to be pretty important, as aggressive competitive sports exclude and self select on this basis. Interestingly we all seem to behave as though women are the kinder and more accepting sex, which maybe true in a significant percentage of women. However what has driven female critique of gay male culture in the past 20 years (which has been to subtly stigmatise and encourage caretaker roles and perfunctory professional roles where gay men are expected to work all hours as alternate to the afore) has now seeped into critique of Lesbian culture (by pushing many young/developing lesbian women into identifying out of being women all together too). I could go on about this but it is important to understand these behaviours are fear based tribal behaviours.. very old, prehistoric pack like behaviours that when not adhered to can be savagely reacted to, but more often than not the real torture is the turning of a thousand heads. This is what I see and hear in sport. No one man or organisation set forth to do this, but with the expansion of multiculturalism we have a reaction toward multi-cultism as I coin it. Again, there is no one tangible source of the behaviour except to say that as we become more diverse in culture whilst painting on a veneer of singular and agreed upon codes of behaviour and acceptance or tolerance, the gravity to which our animal minds need to hold a safe tribal structure; we have sadly left an inevitable fracturing of our society. Things are not in fact getting better for gay men and women, they are getting worse. Yes if you went to uni, got a job as a manager in a large business with righteously ignorant do-gooders you could be forgiven to think DEI was “Qween!” This is not the general experience of young gay people, or those who are to some extent on the margins be it for reasons of mental health or disability. They are now the target of this tribalism, as they are instead of being allowed to be themselves are now prescribed a doctrine. And by God if they fail to live up to or perform to this doctrine you will see the same DEI services from Police, Medical Institutes, Charities, Schools/Universities, Media & Politics all turn their head and fail to provide.
I empathise that football when you hit success, or even mild success is the be all. As a young man you are rocketed into a world that even a great education could not live upto in many ways. That is possibly why the choice to exclude yourself or choose a new path is no antidote to the problem, though, media has always been a bastion. And no doubt the need for total conformity to the tribe is unassailable. But think on lads, there are kids and adults who cant live that lie. Sadly for many of these “out” gays they are now out through an indoctrinated into performing to another gender conforming fiction. That to be a gay man is to either be highly sexual, highly attractive or highly female should you not be attractive in a conventional way. What this has done to us we are only just starting to admit to in some quarters (ie the Cass review). Truth is that a nation of any size can have a very flexible space for individuality when it is sure of its own cultural structure at large, so long as certain tenants are adhered to. If a nation continually splits itself due to tribalism as a reaction to “othering” experiences, or a need to apportion the breakdown of functional services a targeted pazzi. In some ways being closeted can be very helpful in that/this environment. I know this as I can force passing for straight myself. Men greet me better when I do, and so do women. If I went to apply for certain jobs I would play down any possible assertions to my sexuality, and for service based £10-£35per hour work, playing up my gay can go a long way to take away the suggestion that I may have dependants that may detract from a rota shift system. It’s just that cynically simple for gay men. You get asked to do different things, stay late, cover, setup or whatever. If I do work in my “straighter”guise, the expectations can be gruelling but they are normally set in stone or something near to it. The issues have changed over the past 2 decades, and while we claim the larger part of society has moved on from homophobia the reality is under the surface there has been a pernicious introduction and classification of gays as a lower cast. Frivolously protected but undermined all the same. Admitting you belong to that as a footballer who swims in the circles you have wont sit well. Moving past that and finding a smaller tribe is the only way it falters unless you are like me, able if not happy to perform to the crowd.
i am Openly gay in football, it is exhausting so i know what it feels like!
It would be great for straight guys to compete to be their gay friends’ first slow dance.
I would imagine players will be less likely to shower naked now because of social media and mobile phone cameras here there and everywhere. Always that chance of a naked pic leaking. I don't think it's because of some new moral code.
48:44 I'm really surprised he was bullied, given he isn't effeminate and played good football.
He seems to be the ideal who other boys in school would want to follow.
Either way school bullying is so damaging (as I remember).
Lovely guy.
I think the commercial deals would flood in. The term "come out" annoys me. Come out of where exactly? People who need to know, i.e., family and friends, usually already know. They're the most important ones. Then it is up to the individual to tell whoever. Not feel pressured by media and society or "come out"
I've never seen him before but he is gorgeous ❤
It's not just Football though, there aren't any openly gay male active Tennis players on the tour and in over 30 years of being a tennis fan, I've never known there to have been an openly gay male star
They're hiding from you and your thirst!!! ;))
Again follow the money. The money guys of these clubs and sponsors look at openly gay is an apple cart they don't want to upset.
He's so fit.
Im am gay im a big MAN U FAN
Cristiano Ronaldo where are you ?
Yet, we have several lesbian sports presenters.
Because most straight men have a fantasy about two women getting it on , so it’s great , yet two men repulse them , strange
And a well-known transgender football journalist : Nicky Bandini.
I am Gay and I do not like football.
And ?
I think in football or every other kind of collectiv sport it doesn t matter if you are gay or not the thing is your capt the attention on individual part where your work with a team it s maybe better if you want to do a coming out ask your team if they will be support you for that i think it s more a question of team as a question individual don t forget straight don t have to do a coming in lol
I'm gay, can't say I really care, far too much time devoted to football.
I'm gay and I avidly watch most sports, even women's sports, so just let's say that gay men are a varied lot, not all to be shoved into the same pigeonhole.
Dude I m gay and I never miss a single game of my fave teams😂
Very beautiful and never loose yourselves with others ideas but to find yourselves with positivity always and excuse me host your wrong there’s more bi people then straight guy
The sterotype are that gay men don't like or play sports and that all straight men like and play sports.
He's very handsome... He needs to have a good boyfriend
Ikr
Young brave and highly gifted Josh Cavallo Australian A league player came out 2021 - very brave, good on him.