Check whatever is your local version craigslist or ebay for vintage keyboards with MX or MY style switches. You'll find a good amount of high quality keycaps to harvest.
Check out Qoda they offer ISO key caps and in different languages also for mac! I got a Keychron K8 ISO UK - and Qoda seems to be the only place I can get Mac support ISO UK keycap sets.
I guess Im kind of lucky since I got some really good ISO keycaps. I live in Finland so nordic layout would be optimal but I gave up on that since I dont use äöå for anything else than schoolwork. I got myself some gmk rainy day keycaps and they had iso support so thats really nice
It's a bit odd to say that the ANSI is "the normal layout", considering that it's only used by the US layout, whereas the ISO layout is used by virtually all national keyboard layouts (UK, DE, JP, KR, CZ, just to name the ones I've seen) and it's literally the international standard. Then again, the US layout is by far the most popular layout in itself and the longer left shift and typically less wobbly enter key are my personal reasons for why I prefer it. Then again, for writing a lot of LaTeX code, having the backslash and pipe characters closer to the letters feels more convenient, but not many people will appreciate that.
Correction. ISO stands for the International Organization for Standardization (no I don't know why it is that way round either. I think because it is based in Geneva). Also please don't describe ANSI as "Normal". It may be normal for you, but for many other countries, it is not. I don't refer to either as normal. Also one layout isn't better than the other... Personally I can't stand ANSI and find it less ergonomic, because of my being used to ISO, but I get that someone with muscle memory for ANSI would find ISO less ergonomic.
I am European but bought my most recent keyboard in the ANSI layout for the very reson of being more customizable. After using it for the past 5 years I can honestly say that I much prefer the ISO layout and have been itching to get back to the giant enter key ever since. I thought that I would adapt eventually but still, years after switching, I cosntantly fat-finger the backslash key when trying to hit enter. I will admit that I enjoy having the larger left shift for typing but I already have the muscle memory of having to go all the way to the edge of the board to press it so rarely utilize its entire width. Especially when I am playing games I rest my baby finger on the outside edge of the left shift due to my index, middle and rign being on W,A,S,D. I don't really agree with the importance of your point about the ANSI enter being more ergonomic because it it was such a big deal then why would the backspace (which is one of the most used keys) be the furthest away key on the entire board? I think that for my next build I am going to try and make a hybrid of the two layouts, using the larger left shift from ANSI in combination with the ISO enter and just ditch having a backslash key entirely. I can't remember the last time I used that thing anyway.
Same here. Can't work with annoyingly small Enter key and useless (for me) backslash key occupying most important space on the keyboard. Constantly pressing that key instead of Enter. I'm CAD user and the Enter key is very important for me. But the thing is, I never use ISO letters/layouts. All I need is ANSI layout with large Enter key and backslash key near it. Like in this example with both Shift keys being large modecom.com/en/mc-800w/ . Would like to know what this type of layout is called, or what standart it is?
As a programmer I like ISO because the backslash key is really commonly used for me, as it also has the | (pipe). I also grew up with it so that's part of the reason. The one thing I don't like about ISO though is laptop keyboards always have the skinniest enter key ever like it should be a big thicc thing
Backslack in ANSI is about same distance from home key J as Enter key in ISO. And I'd think Enter is more frequently used than \ even in programming languages that decided to chose this character for common operations like bash or elexir. The only exception is probably the windows path system where one would need commonly many \ per single line. I agree with though is that it's more easily hit Enter by mistake when reaching for \ and this potentially can lead to executing code or sending message. Enter is further to reach in ISO but maybe for good. Still prefer ANSI though even I grew up with ISO but mostly not because of enter key - I don't really mind any - but the fact that left shift key is reduced in size in order to accomodate 1 extra useless key IMHO is abomination
Recently I started taking an interest in mechanical keyboards. I grew up on an ISO keyboard so it's going to be most natural for me. I like the over sized enter double height enter key. It's satisfying to hit it after sending a message and I also use it to locate my other keys being a touch typist. The smaller left shift doesn't bother me and I use it a lot since I use the shift on the other side of the keyboard - for letter on right side, I use left shift. It's all about familiarity really. It's a shame that most mechanical is ANSI based and it does limit my options. But the clue is in the name. American National Standards Institute vs International Standards Organisations. International all the way. Should probably move away from dated measurement systems that aren't base 10 hahaha
ANSI actually adopted SI-units back in the 70s in a hybrid system, so everything that consumers buy has both units (mostly weight and space dimensions). ANSI is also an ISO member. Academic and Industrial things are all in SI-units. This allows people to use old units for convenience bc our brains are wired that way and then metric for precision. It's like how grandmas use pinches and cups to measure, while people following a recipe book measure water in mL.
Don't bother about organisations and companies having America(n) in their name. NIS America plublishes games in Europe. There have been many European austranauts on NAmericanSA flights. It's just the place where the origin of the organisation is from. Heck. We have US military in Europe. Doesn't mean this is America.
imo, i cant stand ansi. large enter key on the iso layout means its easier to hit enter from the top row of letters since it extends up there, backspace is still just above enter, and the left shift makes for less accidental caps. prefer the " being on 2 as well compared to it being @
I was just searching for a quick confirmation of the differences between iso and ansi and I found this video which is surprisingly informative and pleasantly presented. I immediately subscribed to this channel. Well done, thank you for a good source of information.
It's so hard to find some stuff when you want to build a German keyboard which has to be ISO and also provide the German extra letters. There is really cool stuff out there but it's mostly limited to ANSI layout. Many ISO-users say that they dislike the smaller Enter button from ANSI, although I also think it's too far away.
Im from the UK- And I recently switched from a laptop (which uses hybrid layout) to our country's standard ISO and I can say it's more satisfying to click the enter key and generally type for some reason. Great video! (The other half of the left shift is | so useful for Dev work)
It warms my cold heart to see so many comments saying ISO is better. I honestly have to agree and I don't think it's *only* because I grew up with it. I've used ANSI boards as well but I feel like the simple fact of having more keys in easy reach is a plus for ISO regardless of how you slice it. Yes, you have to reach like an extra inch to the right to hit Return/Enter, and slightly further left for Shift, but you also have an extra key that can be used for something useful and the / and \ keys are usually symmetrically arranged so backslash is on the left edge and forward slash is on the right. And if you really want, you can sometimes further split it up by dividing the ISO Return/Enter into two keys, if you're using a board with otherwise unused contacts for the ANSI \ position on it. There is at least one sort of board that I know does exactly that: the extremely hard to find IBM 4704 ones all effectively use ISO layouts with the tall ISO key divided into two smaller keys. I only ever hit Return/Enter on the bottom section anyway so this is ideal for me. I could adjust easily enough to the # and @ swap but being in the UK, I use the £ symbol constantly so that'd be more of a pain in the neck.
While I live one Sweden and grown up with ISO layout and do prefer it. The one thing that kills the ANSI boards for me is the total lack of key caps with the symbols and letters I need. It’s one thing to program a different key to make up for the layout. It’s another to not being able to have a keyboard with the symbols and letters I need on the key caps. I get it, US and China use ANSI and that covers the majority of people buying key caps I guess. Other languages are sadly left hanging. I’ve spoken to factories in China and they don’t even have the molds to make double shot pbt caps with iso letters. It’s just not worth it for them to even make them.
Europe is not so small including UK but I think it's the ppl interested in custom keyboards. In Korea we are small but we have huge and strong keyboard community (and growing). We use ANSI here but with also Korean written and most keyboards when officially imported come out that way. I even saw someone who made German QWRTZ custom keyboard in Korea lol.
@@annabelle7123 europeans kind of just gonna bang bang bang whatever the employer gave them and then go drink beer after 5pm so our keyboard ecosystem in europe is kind of pretty bad. The worst part is that every country have their own key mappings - if say you find better laptop deal say on German website than in Poland you are stuck with German keys. I grew up with ISO yet I prefer ANSI. But in Europe it can be very hard for me to buy ANSI especially when it comes to laptops. Enter key I don't mind. But tiny shift key drives me crazy all the time.
I grew up using ANSI so I'm used to it but in France I had to use ISO AZERTY (on Mac) and it was so hard 😫 actually a decade ago in Korea we also had the J shape enter key, upside down from European ones! Of course, Japan has the weirdest layout 🙂 P.S. in Korea we use ANSI + 2 keys (Eng/Kor and Chinese characters) I like the aesthetic of ISO keyboard enter but it's really hard to find the right key caps or even keyboards. Yet we have crazy keyboard community in Korea and I saw someone who built German ISO QWERTZ custom keyboard 😂
I prefer iso; the hashtag under the bigger enter key really means a lot to me when I play sc2 xd. Its a pity I can't get a lot of mechanical keyboards with iso :(
To answer the initial question, which is superior: the layout, which is made for your language 😉 I program 30% of my working time C++ and from this point of view the US ANSI is the best layout. But in 70% of the time, I write requirements, papers, presentations or simply communicate via Mail oder Teams. Using the ALT-modificator for ö, ä, ü or ß (US international layout) is awful slow. And if I simply use the ANSI layout for DE, I miss one key for 🙃
I live in Mexico and all my life I've used an ISO keyboard. Honestly, I don't feel like it's "more ergonimic." With practice I've never had problems typing enter or Left Shift. Also, I need my Ñ, never forget the ñ.
I am from Brazil, our keyboards usually have the ABNT2 layout - adapted ISO for the Portuguese language. I am quite a typing savvy person, so I have 2 mechanical keyboards - one was abandoned by my older brother after he bought a better one, while I own another one with my own money. The one I bought for myself has the ANSI layout, while my brother's is ABNT2. I would say that, because I touch type, the ANSI layout is much more comfortable, the wider enter and shift keys are easier to press with my pinky fingers. But in the ABNT layout, my right hand has to travel a lot more, which causes a bit of a wrist travel, sometimes it hurts. And the smaller Shift key is annoying, compared to the easiness to how I press it with my ANSI keyboard
I switched from ISO to ANSI a few years ago, but I don't think you can add *altgr* to ANSI on programmable boards, I have to use the function button to type out numpad codes for special characters, and the whole process is a lot slower, and which is why I'm giving up ANSI and going back to ISO.
If the Right Alt is an Alt GR or not should be determined by the layout file, and not the keyboard form factor. As far as the computer knows, it's just a second Alt key, and the layout makes the second Alt key function as the Alt Gr. So it you pick the German layout and use an ANSI keyboard, you still have access to Alt Gr. In fact, the extra layout US International turns the second Alt into an Alt Gr.
Just put your keyboard settings on US international. I don't even know how to type numpad codes for special characters! @€€¼€¤€¼½ßåßðæ. There, dit that in five seconds. ¡Tada! US international is brilliant.
I grow up with ISO keyboards and even like 20 years of using ANSI ones because they came in almost all laptops, I'm still presing the backlash when I want to press enter 🤦🏻♀️ it's so interesting how much memory muscle I've retain and can't get rid of it lol
I believe the ANSI layout looks more streamlined, for most keyboard sizes. But I prefer the larger ENTER key of the ISO keyboard - and it also looks very cool on a 65% layout. Since I have big hands, I don‘t mind the extra centimeters to reach the shift keys
Most languages outside of English only come in ISO - German for example, which I primarily used all of my life. I'm currently retraining to UK QWERTY, also in ISO, because it's way easier to retrain to. I agree that there are options to reprogram ANSI keyboards, but as they really aren't common around here, I'm better off sticking to ISO. I prefer the looks, too, and I can't really imagine having to hit an additional key above enter - I'm just too used to the bigger vertical shape. Anyway, like the video, so I subscribed. Looking forward to your future content. Cheers
@@SwitchandClickOfficial Agreed, that's basically why I'm probably going to get a Dygma Raise as an ergonomic keyboard, they offer ISO versions as well as ANSI. Plus, it's hot swap and has great RGB.
I’m from The Netherlands and have used both (I think) but it’s ANSI all the way for me. Probably used that more in my “forming” years. Or maybe it’s just that I think ANSI looks better. ;) For accessing symbols it’s also possible to use Alt plus the ASCII/unicode number (perhaps on the num pad) of the symbol you want to use. So then you don’t need the right Alt key to be different from the left one. And you don’t need a programmable keyboard either. I think this is actually what some Dutch people are used to. I can usually get around that by simply using dead keys. I find it easier.
My finger positions, at rest, on a keyboard (gaming and typing) are: Left hand [Thumb - Space] [Index - D] [Middle - W] [Ring - A] [Pinky - Left Shift], Right Hand (not on mouse) [Thumb - Below Space(not in use)] [Index - K] [Middle - O] [Ring - Dash/Underscore] [Pinky - Backspace] I find that it's the most comfortable for my hand/finger size. Using an ANSI for most of my life, I found that my right pinky finger would always suffer when trying to press enter, so I positioned my wrist accordingly. But I eventually found my wrist hurting more than my pinky so I switched back to a more comfy position (the aforementioned}. When I bought an ISO layout keyboard (I did not pay attention to what the difference was, ISO to ANSI) I noticed my hand and wrist stopped cramping up. What I also noticed was the speed in which I typed was much faster since I didn't have to go back up to BACKSPACE every time I fat-fingered the slash key when trying to press ENTER. Now that my ISO keyboard is pretty much on it's last leg, I am finding it INCREDIBLY difficult to find an RGB Backlit ISO layout Keyboard...
I'll agree with that, and when they make ISO, include support for each country's layout. It's only a few more keys, but would make customisable keyboards much more so.
I have been used to ISO-DE keyboards all my life, but lately I find myself considering the switch from ISO to ANSI. I switched from a regular 102-key layout to a 60% (61-key) mechanical keyboard. Especially in this form factor, the symmetry of the ANSI layout is a lot more aesthetically pleasing. I am more inclined towards the switch since I realized that ANSI-International keymap offers an opportunity to enter German umlauts and sharp s via right Alt, which in turn will function as the default AltGr key known on ISO keyboards. I used to hate DE-keyboards with a standard US keymap (for instance, when installing an operating system), but the truth is that the position of brackets and other symbols relevant for programming is far superior on ANSI keyboards. I'm pretty sure I'll try it out (especially when there is no reason to toss my present ISO keyboard, it might help me break some current typing habits).
The positions of characters have nothing to do with ANSI or ISO. What a key outputs is determined by the layout you choose, and ANSI/ISO only determines the position of the key around Enter, and the existence of the key between Shift and Z. - You can use the US layout on an ISO if you prefer the positions of the brackets, and you can use a Germany layout on an ANSI, but then you can't type |.
Honestly I've been looking for pcbs that support jis layout and unfortunately couldn't find any. Then I watched some Japanese youtuber's videos and I was surprised to see that they all use ANSI pcbs
(1:20) The ISO "backslash" key is made normal sized, and not extra wide like it is on the ANSI keyboard. The "backslash" key is the only key that inputs visible characters that is bigger than the rest on the ANSI keyboard, while being the same on an ISO. - But other than that, the differences are so minor, and I don't feel there's any disadvantage with the smaller shift key on ISO. When I use shift, I mostly press the right one.
Thankyou for the video very informative :) I am from the U.K. and the main keyboard I use is in ANSI layout (60% keyboard) I definitely prefer ANSI for gaming and ISO for typing in my personal experience!
I'm curious of why ANSI would be better with gaming. In a game using WASD, my pinky rest naturally on the left side of shift, so the shorter size doesn't change anything. So I'm curious of what your reasoning is.
Liggliluff I have an Anne Pro 2 (60%) and I guess I just got used to the ANSI layout it has, the main reasons for liking are: the smaller enter key which I like alot and the longer Lshift key (good for FPS games or games using shift to run) the only downside with ANSI for me would be the fact CTRL is made smaller.
@@M0VER I guess if you're curling up your hand a bit, you can reach the key between Z and shift, and using ANSI would avoid that. Not that it really is a thing that has gotten in my way though. But in a situation where you are forced to use an ISO keyboard, and the game allows you to use mutliple keys for the same action, use both left shift and the extra key as the same action. It's not exactly the same as a long shift, but no more pressing that wouldn't execute an action.
There is no OS key near ALT GR on my Nordic ISO keyboard. It got the FN key on the left side of CTRL. I got about 106 keys plus four for volume and the LVT key. Your video taught me many things, thanks!
As a german, who has used an ANSI keyboard for some things for a few years... I much prefer my ISO-DE layout. I specifically opted to buy a Keychron K3 specifically because Keychron offers ISO-DE for it.
The majority of comments are pro ISO. I think when it comes to hotswap ANSI may be a better choice because there are more keycap options. Perhaps it's best for ISO users to obtain an ANSI just for hotswap, perhaps of a different size to their ISO so they are both used for different purposes. Many avid keyboard users on this channel will end up with multiple keyboards anyway, lol
Personally I've found having a smaller enter key the biggest hurdle to using ANSI so far, it's a shame it's close to impossible to find a iso layout when it comes to custom keyboards
Well have ISO and ANSI Keyboards around and come back to ISO every time. I don't feel that ANSI is more ergonomic, It's just what you get more used to. To find something custom in ISO layout is a pure pain. At least GMK have ISO options from time to time, but is really $$$
Living in Germany I was torn between buying ISO or ANSI to get into this hobby,. I ended up getting GMK/VIA supported ANSI and built what I call ANSI-DE. Keycaps with NorDE kit are still a pain in the ass to find tho
My problem with the ANSI ENTER key isn't that it's smaller but that it's right next to the apostrophe which I use a lot. That results in me hitting ENTER by accident often. And that's the worst key to press unintentionally. Sure I'd rather have a bigger LEFT SHIFT (should have that anyway really) but it's the lesser evil.
I use both ANSI and ISO and the ISO enter is better in my opinion, you don't accidentally press that unnecessarily large backslash key and you get more area to throw your finger literally and you will hit the enter. Also I don't know what's ANSI's problem with the question sign that you need the shift key to activate it, it gives the forward slash preference over it, I don't get it.
@@SwitchandClickOfficial but it's the default, probably something inherited from the time only programmers used it. I had to swap them with autohotkey.
The keys above the enter on the ANSI keyboard is hard to type. Instead, on the ISO layout this key is on the home row. If you type in english and only in english the ANSI layout is more convenient. Netherless, if you need to type accents, then the ISO layout makes more sense.
Some individuals may become upset if their keyboard preference is not labeled as either "normal" or "ergonomic." While an ISO big enter key may be preferred by some, it is objectively less ergonomic. This is due to the fact that it is two keys away from the rest position of the pinky finger, which can hinder typing speed as one must move their hand enough to lose the reference point of the "j" key with their index finger.
I can't find pbt keycap sets that are ISO AND my language. Usually had to mix a few sets: one with the right ISO alphas in my language extension and other for nicer modifiers. To avoid the nightmare I'm finally buying blank keycaps. Also i'm thinking about building a blank ortholinear to avoid the problem completely. Personally i don't think one layout is superior to other. It only matters which one you learned and used first.
Commenting after almost 2 years lol. I don’t type fast so when I am searching for the enter key I use my middle finger and the iso enter shape makes it easier to spot and hit. But since I am not a fast type, I type in both layout just fine. As a Mac user I like the iso layout’s legends a lot more on Apple’s keyboards. I find it not as hard to find iso layout keycap (although much less choices), but a lot harder to find hot swappable iso pcbs.
As a developer I prefer wider left shift and enter buttons. Unfortunately keyboard producers (eg. Logitech) are selling ISO standard in the Europe mostly. This should be an option to choose keyboard layout when buying, but sadly saying it is not.
I thought ANSI was 101 keys & ISO was 102 keys, with Japanese 'JIS' being the 105 due to the extra keys used to toggle for different character sets. I recently switched from a US (ANSI) to a UK (ISO) keyboard for my PC just to try something different. Still getting used to it but really isn't too different as I don't do traditional touch typing. The primary difference in day to day use are the different size and shape of the left-shift and enter keys. Other symbols like ¬ " £ @ ' ~ # | \ € are in different locations vs the US keyboard or not present at all in the US one.
I am from the Netherlands and the standard is the ISO keyboard here unfortuneatly. My hands are quite small and I like the long horizontal shift and enter. I can type way faster this way and make less errors. In the normal Dutch key the shift key is small and there is a key placed next to it that I would never use, it really does not make sense to me. Worst thing is that for MacBooks it is almost impossible to find a ANSI keyboard :(
I really want to built a 65% custom board, but like many on here have said, finding a hot swappable ISO PCB is a complete and utter nightmare, and don't even get me started on the keycaps. I was actually considering picking up ANSI keyboard just to eliminate this issue, but my laptop (which I use a fair amount of, if not as much as my desktop) has an ISO based keyboard... and that's a hell I'll not willingly subject myself to.
ISO, because QUERTY and the enter button ist just Humangas. Imagine being mad and writing in a chat. Pressing the big enter button gives great instant feedback :)
Wanted to build my dad a good keyboard for his birthday Had no experience with custom keyboards… I’m Germany, there are 2 sets of ISO key caps available 2….(next to a few cheap replacements for Corsair keyboards for example)
I use three ISO layouts: UK, FR and BE (FR). I would like so much to build a new keyboard with a hot swappable PCB, but it's a nightmare to find a hot swappable 65% PCB with a ISO layout :/ Not gonna lie, working in French with a ANSI layout would be terrible, so I'd rather stick to ISO. But I'd go with ANSI otherwise, so many customization options! *o*
Same problems here for Switzerland... Looked everywhere for a hot swappable 65%,75% and 60%. Nothing... And I'm not going to juggle ctrl commands for entering accents and special characters...
@@sportyeight7769 I forgot about my comment above, but I'm happy to now say it's easier to find hotswap boards! :D I entered the Ikki68 Aurora Group Buy which has a 65% hotswap PCB and it's ISO compatible. There's more and more keyboard kits like this and it's amazing! I live in the UK so I mainly look for UK sellers. If you don't mind ordering from one of them, I'd recommend the HS60 which is a hotswap PCB I ordered from mechboards.co.uk and they have a ISO version :)
Wait a second. Are you saying Belgium doesn't even use French Azerty? Then i really don't get why they just don't use US International like they do across the (north) border. I get so confused when I go a little south. And it's why I can't buy a laptop just a few km south of me. Sigh.
@@FrFrFrog Can you advise me which keyboard to buy between qwerty us and qwerty international? i will use it mostly as a programmer but I would like to write french sometimes?
I tend to feel ISO a bit more ergonomic than ANSI, but it's by a very few, Backslash close to Enter being better placed from a logical point of view, but also because ISO is more adaptaded to Azerty I use, and above all very likely because I'm used to it, like people used to ANSI prefer it, although a long left shift sounds good. But both solutions are not ergonomic for 2 reasons : 1- Each language has different letters occurrences and different accentuations, for instance Bépo layout is way more adapted to French than Qwerty, gosh it's even better than Azerty even though Azerty is french too... And ISO has been developed trying to combine needs for Qwerty and Azerty, which already is a bad idea, and Bépo is trying to feet into this mess, making it less ergonomic than it could be if it had a dedicated layout. 2- A straight keyboard is only ergonomic for manufacturer's tools. There's no ergonomically designed keyboard that can be straight, so ANSI or ISO are both inferior on that front, by far. Comparing them to know which one is more ergonomic is like comparing two tractors to know which one is the fastest vehicle. Think plane for God sake ! So ANSI is superior for only one reason : the largest, and cheapest, abundance of keyboard platforms and keycap kits. But this very artificial superiority is only valid if you're into Qwerty. As soon as you want ANSI Azerty (not even talking about more exotic layouts like Bépo) choice becomes close to none, even manufacturers like WASD allowing you to customize whatever kit you want, delivering ISO or ANSI layouts, do not allow you to get one of their overpriced ANSI ABS only kits (yurk) in Azerty, unless you make them print your special keys one by one for 9 f*****g $ each. So you got to go for ISO and then try to find a compatible platform. And if you want something as insane as an ANSI Azerty BPT kit with translucent signs, you got to be rich enough to buy your own damn manufacture... But for sure you can find a s**t load of Qwerty (and exotic stuffs) kits made for ISO. If we would have to keep one poorly designed layout it should be ISO, so it could be as rich in kits diversity than ANSI but would fulfill way more needs. But you know, USA and their ecstasy bugging the rest of the world with stuff like imperial non sense... ANSI = American National Standards, ISO = International Organization for Standardization, once again it's just one more "America F**k Yeah" mess. e_e
I usually programming in my pc and for some reason the ISO layout with the big Enter key I find it easier to use. Its easier to find Enter when you have pulled your hands off the keyboard. I know that you can use the right Enter key also but you know its something that I'm used to. I have a ANSI keyboard also. ISO has one negative also in my opinion, you search on the internet and want to press packspace and you accidentaly press the enter key :P but after time that happens once in a hundred hits . They must create a new layout just for me i guess :D . The left shift in ISO it's exactly the same distance with right shift from their closest letters. I think it's useless so big left shift in ANSI layout.
As someone who has used ANSI my whole life, ISO just makes no sense to me to be honest. I always press the left shift key on the right side, so having a shorter key would not work well for me, especially considering I don't use the right shift key pretty much ever. Same goes with the enter key as I press it on the left side, so having it narrow wouldn't work as well for me as I would have to reach further to press enter. Plus, I do not recall ever pressing the backslash key when I was trying to press enter. For these reasons, ANSI just makes more sense to me in my opinion.
TBH, ISO is easier to type, as you dont run the risk of mistyping the \ instead of enter. That aside, having the key in one simple place allows one to write in english and any other language by just changing the input layout in the OS, instead of requiring to accomodate oneself to the keyboard's limitation as with an ANSI one.
Just a correction not all language have the same symbol on the same caps due to the majority of chars needed I have a uk keyboard and every time I type in italian I have to remember where the chars are in the italian layout
You can switch the keyboard layout/language in Windows no matter if your physical keyboard is ANSI or ISO. My keyboard is ISO and I'm switching between Finnish and US constantly depending on what I'm doing. I use the US layout for coding and writing English. Some people don't seem to be aware of this.
Good to know though, is that you don't need a programmable keyboard to write in another language. If you have Windows 10 you can change the layout, it works at least if you have enough keys. For an example I have ISO nordic, but changed to DE/german in language preferences, so my Å became the german letter Ü. So if I would have an ANSI layout keyboard I could still use the swedish special letters.
I think it's very sad that a lot of Custom Keycap Sets don't offer ISO despite being used by the majority of the World. But even if they do support ISO then you still have the Issue of the Different languages. Germany uses QWERTZ, France uses AZERTY etc. and while i can just swap the Keycap placements for Z and Y most sets don't even have the Letters Ö, Ä or Ü for German or special Letters for other Languages. I know there is the fully programmable route but it doesn't really make for a very smooth typing experience 😕
I have a keyboard that is iso layout and I'm really annoyed with the small left shift key button, can I switch it to ansi layout using windows options since the keyboard is not fully programmable? and if yes then how?
many Keycap Sets come with Kits for ISO. An easy and cheap way is to browse on AliExpress/Banggood. Many Group Buys have even a Norde Kit, if you’re German or something similar with Letters like öäüåé whatsoever.
i could never use ansi. I live in germany and we have ÖÄÜ and it would be a pain to set these keys differently. Also many symbols are placed in different spots. I dont wanna change my typing behaviour just to have nicer keycaps
I have always used to type on an iso layout and for the past 10 years I always used to type on laptops and just now I am starting to get into mechanical keyboards. I am willing to try and type on an ansi layout as I never tried it personally because of that longer shift key on the left however I am a bit hesitant just beacause of the muscle memory i got after 15 years of typing and using iso. my native language is not English and we do have some extra letters on our alphabet (30 letters instead of 26) despite that my keyboard still has the standard uk layout of iso. Above all most local shops only supply keyboard in iso layout.
I have a Mac Book 14 inch with ISO layout and I wish Apple would stick to ANSI for its keyboards in Europe. The ISO layout is just ergonomically bad compared to ANSI and I don't see the point of it for Latin-only keyboards.
"Normal" left shift key. "And the additional key on ISO layouts can be used in other languages". I'm surprised she didn't call other languages "foreign" languages.
Downsides of ANSI: I never use backslash and | key on ANSI and we use ~ a lot in Korean but it's in a corner on ANSI... on ISO I like the large enter key but would hate small left shift!
My only issue is the lack of £ € symbols on keycaps, yes I can program a keyboard but I like to so see the symbols , not a massive issue I know, but hey I'm used to seeing them.
My laptop had a ISO layout, i brought a rk61, and it was only when i went to buy keycaps for it is when i realised that no keycap set fit for it and that my brothers 60% was different, then i found out about ISO and ANSI layouts.... I think both layouts are nice but ISO makes it harder to buy keycaps....
Back in the nineties here in Latvia, Europe we had keyboards that had both a normal Shift key and a tall Enter key. These are important for typing capital letters and issue an affirmative command, sometimes to slam the Enter in a hurry in games. The Shift, Enter and Backspace should be different in shape to distinguish them by touch. With a narrow Enter, I find myself mistakenly typing a backslash if I want to press Enter. escrapohio.com/ebaypictures/1998-1.JPG i.imgur.com/kJ3H6d4.jpg This layout seems to date back a long time as the first example is quite old (no Windows, AppsKey). The backslash is important for typing file paths correctly on Windows. While navigating with the arrow keys in games the backslash can be assigned to a function, and the Shift remains clearly distinct. None of these special keyboards are really needed for languages. Special characters can be arranged logically on another layer. Or even two layers. Besides AltGr, it is possible to have a Dead Key (de facto standard here). It might not seem ergonomical, but it is better than disturbing an already existing layout containing the most often typed symbols. The UK layout is most annoying. The Shift is smaller, nearly the size of a normal key, and the first regular key is not a Z, but a backslash. I don't type by the book, and often count from the left. Now, if only there were 2 types of keyboards. Look at photos of keyboards for sale: the backslash key is found anywhere. Then they try to fit a Fn key and Shut Down key or Web Browser key, etc.
ISO is “Iso” (acronym), not “I.S.O.” according to ISO :) the unavailability of ISO stuff is kind of terrible; ANSI/English folks has like 100X the amount of good choices compared to what I find for my ISO localization. There’s like a few enthusiast options in DSA and NP-profile, and then a bit more mainstream the gaming companies typically have their keycap sets available. Would be great if enthusiast keycap designers offered an extension set with all the SE/DK/NO/CH/DE/FR/… buttons, it’s probably only like some 20 additional buttons to make the keycaps available to most of the of the A-Z derivations.
ISO giant enter Key is superior, just got to try it for your self, SOOO many times you just want to hit Enter, and it's SO BIG on ISO you can't miss it, it really the main reason I would Always choose ISO, if ANSI would just make an enter key like the ISO one, I would switch to ANSI.
Well i'm from germany so people here dont use ansi layout. however i switched to ansi a while ago and its just so much better than the layout everyones using here.
@@LEK I have my function key on capslock, and put macros in place on second layer for caps+a=ä caps+o=ö and so on. its actually more fluid while typing than on iso layout in my oppinion
Im danish an i use iso of course, but i think its sad that its so hard to make a custom keyboard in iso.
Yeah, I haven't seen that many ISO options
Check whatever is your local version craigslist or ebay for vintage keyboards with MX or MY style switches. You'll find a good amount of high quality keycaps to harvest.
iso > ansi, always and forever
Check out Qoda they offer ISO key caps and in different languages also for mac! I got a Keychron K8 ISO UK - and Qoda seems to be the only place I can get Mac support ISO UK keycap sets.
I guess Im kind of lucky since I got some really good ISO keycaps. I live in Finland so nordic layout would be optimal but I gave up on that since I dont use äöå for anything else than schoolwork. I got myself some gmk rainy day keycaps and they had iso support so thats really nice
It's a bit odd to say that the ANSI is "the normal layout", considering that it's only used by the US layout, whereas the ISO layout is used by virtually all national keyboard layouts (UK, DE, JP, KR, CZ, just to name the ones I've seen) and it's literally the international standard. Then again, the US layout is by far the most popular layout in itself and the longer left shift and typically less wobbly enter key are my personal reasons for why I prefer it. Then again, for writing a lot of LaTeX code, having the backslash and pipe characters closer to the letters feels more convenient, but not many people will appreciate that.
ANSI is not only in US. ANSI overall is more common layout than ISO. ISO is more common only in Europe.
@@sk-sm9sh No, actually in Latin America we also use ISO since Spanish has more letters so is not only in Europe
@@yaninaayalaherrera8956 well spain is in europe so technically u use the same layout even if u r in latin america.
@@shinjid3705 actually no. The ISO European Spanish is different from the ISO Latin American Spanish distribution
@@sk-sm9sh well Europe is pretty big
I prefer the big enter key.
Why?
@@disolsole9847 its good
@@disolsole9847 faster typing
Correction. ISO stands for the International Organization for Standardization (no I don't know why it is that way round either. I think because it is based in Geneva). Also please don't describe ANSI as "Normal". It may be normal for you, but for many other countries, it is not. I don't refer to either as normal.
Also one layout isn't better than the other... Personally I can't stand ANSI and find it less ergonomic, because of my being used to ISO, but I get that someone with muscle memory for ANSI would find ISO less ergonomic.
I am European but bought my most recent keyboard in the ANSI layout for the very reson of being more customizable. After using it for the past 5 years I can honestly say that I much prefer the ISO layout and have been itching to get back to the giant enter key ever since. I thought that I would adapt eventually but still, years after switching, I cosntantly fat-finger the backslash key when trying to hit enter. I will admit that I enjoy having the larger left shift for typing but I already have the muscle memory of having to go all the way to the edge of the board to press it so rarely utilize its entire width. Especially when I am playing games I rest my baby finger on the outside edge of the left shift due to my index, middle and rign being on W,A,S,D.
I don't really agree with the importance of your point about the ANSI enter being more ergonomic because it it was such a big deal then why would the backspace (which is one of the most used keys) be the furthest away key on the entire board?
I think that for my next build I am going to try and make a hybrid of the two layouts, using the larger left shift from ANSI in combination with the ISO enter and just ditch having a backslash key entirely. I can't remember the last time I used that thing anyway.
Same here. Can't work with annoyingly small Enter key and useless (for me) backslash key occupying most important space on the keyboard. Constantly pressing that key instead of Enter. I'm CAD user and the Enter key is very important for me. But the thing is, I never use ISO letters/layouts. All I need is ANSI layout with large Enter key and backslash key near it. Like in this example with both Shift keys being large modecom.com/en/mc-800w/ . Would like to know what this type of layout is called, or what standart it is?
@@turboqzma It's just an ISO layout with an extended left shift. I don't think it has a special name.
@@DamnZodiak It has. Ansiso. And it's not some variation of ISO. It is ANSI with large Enter.
@@turboqzma yep. Ansiso. In addition, I think they call it
US international layout lol
Same here! Hate that stupid skinny ansi enter
As a programmer I like ISO because the backslash key is really commonly used for me, as it also has the | (pipe). I also grew up with it so that's part of the reason. The one thing I don't like about ISO though is laptop keyboards always have the skinniest enter key ever like it should be a big thicc thing
Backslack in ANSI is about same distance from home key J as Enter key in ISO. And I'd think Enter is more frequently used than \ even in programming languages that decided to chose this character for common operations like bash or elexir. The only exception is probably the windows path system where one would need commonly many \ per single line.
I agree with though is that it's more easily hit Enter by mistake when reaching for \ and this potentially can lead to executing code or sending message. Enter is further to reach in ISO but maybe for good.
Still prefer ANSI though even I grew up with ISO but mostly not because of enter key - I don't really mind any - but the fact that left shift key is reduced in size in order to accomodate 1 extra useless key IMHO is abomination
I love Enter key shape in an ISO layout!
I hate it!
@@Vlad2005 same!😁
I love it
Recently I started taking an interest in mechanical keyboards. I grew up on an ISO keyboard so it's going to be most natural for me. I like the over sized enter double height enter key. It's satisfying to hit it after sending a message and I also use it to locate my other keys being a touch typist. The smaller left shift doesn't bother me and I use it a lot since I use the shift on the other side of the keyboard - for letter on right side, I use left shift. It's all about familiarity really. It's a shame that most mechanical is ANSI based and it does limit my options. But the clue is in the name. American National Standards Institute vs International Standards Organisations. International all the way. Should probably move away from dated measurement systems that aren't base 10 hahaha
ANSI actually adopted SI-units back in the 70s in a hybrid system, so everything that consumers buy has both units (mostly weight and space dimensions). ANSI is also an ISO member. Academic and Industrial things are all in SI-units. This allows people to use old units for convenience bc our brains are wired that way and then metric for precision.
It's like how grandmas use pinches and cups to measure, while people following a recipe book measure water in mL.
Don't bother about organisations and companies having America(n) in their name. NIS America plublishes games in Europe. There have been many European austranauts on NAmericanSA flights. It's just the place where the origin of the organisation is from.
Heck. We have US military in Europe. Doesn't mean this is America.
imo, i cant stand ansi. large enter key on the iso layout means its easier to hit enter from the top row of letters since it extends up there, backspace is still just above enter, and the left shift makes for less accidental caps. prefer the " being on 2 as well compared to it being @
I was just searching for a quick confirmation of the differences between iso and ansi and I found this video which is surprisingly informative and pleasantly presented. I immediately subscribed to this channel. Well done, thank you for a good source of information.
It's so hard to find some stuff when you want to build a German keyboard which has to be ISO and also provide the German extra letters.
There is really cool stuff out there but it's mostly limited to ANSI layout.
Many ISO-users say that they dislike the smaller Enter button from ANSI, although I also think it's too far away.
Im from the UK- And I recently switched from a laptop (which uses hybrid layout) to our country's standard ISO and I can say it's more satisfying to click the enter key and generally type for some reason. Great video! (The other half of the left shift is | so useful for Dev work)
It warms my cold heart to see so many comments saying ISO is better. I honestly have to agree and I don't think it's *only* because I grew up with it. I've used ANSI boards as well but I feel like the simple fact of having more keys in easy reach is a plus for ISO regardless of how you slice it. Yes, you have to reach like an extra inch to the right to hit Return/Enter, and slightly further left for Shift, but you also have an extra key that can be used for something useful and the / and \ keys are usually symmetrically arranged so backslash is on the left edge and forward slash is on the right. And if you really want, you can sometimes further split it up by dividing the ISO Return/Enter into two keys, if you're using a board with otherwise unused contacts for the ANSI \ position on it. There is at least one sort of board that I know does exactly that: the extremely hard to find IBM 4704 ones all effectively use ISO layouts with the tall ISO key divided into two smaller keys. I only ever hit Return/Enter on the bottom section anyway so this is ideal for me.
I could adjust easily enough to the # and @ swap but being in the UK, I use the £ symbol constantly so that'd be more of a pain in the neck.
While I live one Sweden and grown up with ISO layout and do prefer it. The one thing that kills the ANSI boards for me is the total lack of key caps with the symbols and letters I need. It’s one thing to program a different key to make up for the layout. It’s another to not being able to have a keyboard with the symbols and letters I need on the key caps. I get it, US and China use ANSI and that covers the majority of people buying key caps I guess. Other languages are sadly left hanging. I’ve spoken to factories in China and they don’t even have the molds to make double shot pbt caps with iso letters. It’s just not worth it for them to even make them.
Europe is not so small including UK but I think it's the ppl interested in custom keyboards. In Korea we are small but we have huge and strong keyboard community (and growing). We use ANSI here but with also Korean written and most keyboards when officially imported come out that way. I even saw someone who made German QWRTZ custom keyboard in Korea lol.
@@annabelle7123 europeans kind of just gonna bang bang bang whatever the employer gave them and then go drink beer after 5pm so our keyboard ecosystem in europe is kind of pretty bad. The worst part is that every country have their own key mappings - if say you find better laptop deal say on German website than in Poland you are stuck with German keys. I grew up with ISO yet I prefer ANSI. But in Europe it can be very hard for me to buy ANSI especially when it comes to laptops. Enter key I don't mind. But tiny shift key drives me crazy all the time.
I grew up using ANSI so I'm used to it but in France I had to use ISO AZERTY (on Mac) and it was so hard 😫 actually a decade ago in Korea we also had the J shape enter key, upside down from European ones! Of course, Japan has the weirdest layout 🙂 P.S. in Korea we use ANSI + 2 keys (Eng/Kor and Chinese characters)
I like the aesthetic of ISO keyboard enter but it's really hard to find the right key caps or even keyboards. Yet we have crazy keyboard community in Korea and I saw someone who built German ISO QWERTZ custom keyboard 😂
I prefer iso; the hashtag under the bigger enter key really means a lot to me when I play sc2 xd. Its a pity I can't get a lot of mechanical keyboards with iso :(
To answer the initial question, which is superior: the layout, which is made for your language 😉 I program 30% of my working time C++ and from this point of view the US ANSI is the best layout. But in 70% of the time, I write requirements, papers, presentations or simply communicate via Mail oder Teams. Using the ALT-modificator for ö, ä, ü or ß (US international layout) is awful slow.
And if I simply use the ANSI layout for DE, I miss one key for 🙃
I live in Mexico and all my life I've used an ISO keyboard. Honestly, I don't feel like it's "more ergonimic." With practice I've never had problems typing enter or Left Shift. Also, I need my Ñ, never forget the ñ.
I am from Brazil, our keyboards usually have the ABNT2 layout - adapted ISO for the Portuguese language. I am quite a typing savvy person, so I have 2 mechanical keyboards - one was abandoned by my older brother after he bought a better one, while I own another one with my own money.
The one I bought for myself has the ANSI layout, while my brother's is ABNT2. I would say that, because I touch type, the ANSI layout is much more comfortable, the wider enter and shift keys are easier to press with my pinky fingers. But in the ABNT layout, my right hand has to travel a lot more, which causes a bit of a wrist travel, sometimes it hurts. And the smaller Shift key is annoying, compared to the easiness to how I press it with my ANSI keyboard
ABNT2 is as much an "adapted" ISO layout as any other ISO variant. It's just the legends that are different, the layout is the same.
I switched from ISO to ANSI a few years ago, but I don't think you can add *altgr* to ANSI on programmable boards, I have to use the function button to type out numpad codes for special characters, and the whole process is a lot slower, and which is why I'm giving up ANSI and going back to ISO.
If the Right Alt is an Alt GR or not should be determined by the layout file, and not the keyboard form factor. As far as the computer knows, it's just a second Alt key, and the layout makes the second Alt key function as the Alt Gr. So it you pick the German layout and use an ANSI keyboard, you still have access to Alt Gr. In fact, the extra layout US International turns the second Alt into an Alt Gr.
Just put your keyboard settings on US international. I don't even know how to type numpad codes for special characters! @€€¼€¤€¼½ßåßðæ. There, dit that in five seconds. ¡Tada! US international is brilliant.
The satisfaction of pushing an ISO enter with the pinky makes every "disatvantage" worth it over an ANSI.
I grow up with ISO keyboards and even like 20 years of using ANSI ones because they came in almost all laptops, I'm still presing the backlash when I want to press enter 🤦🏻♀️ it's so interesting how much memory muscle I've retain and can't get rid of it lol
I believe the ANSI layout looks more streamlined, for most keyboard sizes. But I prefer the larger ENTER key of the ISO keyboard - and it also looks very cool on a 65% layout. Since I have big hands, I don‘t mind the extra centimeters to reach the shift keys
Most languages outside of English only come in ISO - German for example, which I primarily used all of my life. I'm currently retraining to UK QWERTY, also in ISO, because it's way easier to retrain to. I agree that there are options to reprogram ANSI keyboards, but as they really aren't common around here, I'm better off sticking to ISO. I prefer the looks, too, and I can't really imagine having to hit an additional key above enter - I'm just too used to the bigger vertical shape. Anyway, like the video, so I subscribed. Looking forward to your future content. Cheers
@@SwitchandClickOfficial Agreed, that's basically why I'm probably going to get a Dygma Raise as an ergonomic keyboard, they offer ISO versions as well as ANSI. Plus, it's hot swap and has great RGB.
I’m from The Netherlands and have used both (I think) but it’s ANSI all the way for me. Probably used that more in my “forming” years. Or maybe it’s just that I think ANSI looks better. ;)
For accessing symbols it’s also possible to use Alt plus the ASCII/unicode number (perhaps on the num pad) of the symbol you want to use. So then you don’t need the right Alt key to be different from the left one. And you don’t need a programmable keyboard either. I think this is actually what some Dutch people are used to. I can usually get around that by simply using dead keys. I find it easier.
My finger positions, at rest, on a keyboard (gaming and typing) are: Left hand [Thumb - Space] [Index - D] [Middle - W] [Ring - A] [Pinky - Left Shift], Right Hand (not on mouse) [Thumb - Below Space(not in use)] [Index - K] [Middle - O] [Ring - Dash/Underscore] [Pinky - Backspace]
I find that it's the most comfortable for my hand/finger size. Using an ANSI for most of my life, I found that my right pinky finger would always suffer when trying to press enter, so I positioned my wrist accordingly. But I eventually found my wrist hurting more than my pinky so I switched back to a more comfy position (the aforementioned}. When I bought an ISO layout keyboard (I did not pay attention to what the difference was, ISO to ANSI) I noticed my hand and wrist stopped cramping up. What I also noticed was the speed in which I typed was much faster since I didn't have to go back up to BACKSPACE every time I fat-fingered the slash key when trying to press ENTER.
Now that my ISO keyboard is pretty much on it's last leg, I am finding it INCREDIBLY difficult to find an RGB Backlit ISO layout Keyboard...
i wish for all keycap companies that make keycaps with iso and ansi a very pleasant evening
I'll agree with that, and when they make ISO, include support for each country's layout. It's only a few more keys, but would make customisable keyboards much more so.
I have been used to ISO-DE keyboards all my life, but lately I find myself considering the switch from ISO to ANSI. I switched from a regular 102-key layout to a 60% (61-key) mechanical keyboard.
Especially in this form factor, the symmetry of the ANSI layout is a lot more aesthetically pleasing. I am more inclined towards the switch since I realized that ANSI-International keymap offers an opportunity to enter German umlauts and sharp s via right Alt, which in turn will function as the default AltGr key known on ISO keyboards.
I used to hate DE-keyboards with a standard US keymap (for instance, when installing an operating system), but the truth is that the position of brackets and other symbols relevant for programming is far superior on ANSI keyboards. I'm pretty sure I'll try it out (especially when there is no reason to toss my present ISO keyboard, it might help me break some current typing habits).
The positions of characters have nothing to do with ANSI or ISO. What a key outputs is determined by the layout you choose, and ANSI/ISO only determines the position of the key around Enter, and the existence of the key between Shift and Z. - You can use the US layout on an ISO if you prefer the positions of the brackets, and you can use a Germany layout on an ANSI, but then you can't type |.
Honestly I've been looking for pcbs that support jis layout and unfortunately couldn't find any. Then I watched some Japanese youtuber's videos and I was surprised to see that they all use ANSI pcbs
My keyboard uses the ISO layout for the enter key and backslash, but the left shift is the same as an ANSI layout.
(1:20) The ISO "backslash" key is made normal sized, and not extra wide like it is on the ANSI keyboard. The "backslash" key is the only key that inputs visible characters that is bigger than the rest on the ANSI keyboard, while being the same on an ISO. - But other than that, the differences are so minor, and I don't feel there's any disadvantage with the smaller shift key on ISO. When I use shift, I mostly press the right one.
Wtf I've never heard anyone using right shift lol
@@animeshmeshram5997 We weirdos do exist. I only ever use right shift when typing. I only use left shift when gaming, for spring, etc.
Thankyou for the video very informative :) I am from the U.K. and the main keyboard I use is in ANSI layout (60% keyboard) I definitely prefer ANSI for gaming and ISO for typing in my personal experience!
I'm curious of why ANSI would be better with gaming.
In a game using WASD, my pinky rest naturally on the left side of shift, so the shorter size doesn't change anything. So I'm curious of what your reasoning is.
Liggliluff I have an Anne Pro 2 (60%) and I guess I just got used to the ANSI layout it has, the main reasons for liking are: the smaller enter key which I like alot and the longer Lshift key (good for FPS games or games using shift to run) the only downside with ANSI for me would be the fact CTRL is made smaller.
@@M0VER I guess if you're curling up your hand a bit, you can reach the key between Z and shift, and using ANSI would avoid that. Not that it really is a thing that has gotten in my way though. But in a situation where you are forced to use an ISO keyboard, and the game allows you to use mutliple keys for the same action, use both left shift and the extra key as the same action. It's not exactly the same as a long shift, but no more pressing that wouldn't execute an action.
Like ISO myself, it's a lot rarer to see it our in the wild as a custom job, makes it more niche :P
There is no OS key near ALT GR on my Nordic ISO keyboard. It got the FN key on the left side of CTRL.
I got about 106 keys plus four for volume and the LVT key. Your video taught me many things, thanks!
As a german, who has used an ANSI keyboard for some things for a few years... I much prefer my ISO-DE layout. I specifically opted to buy a Keychron K3 specifically because Keychron offers ISO-DE for it.
maybe I'm just a silly american but I love the look of a nice big enter key on an ISO layout lol wished my TKL Model M was ISO
The majority of comments are pro ISO. I think when it comes to hotswap ANSI may be a better choice because there are more keycap options. Perhaps it's best for ISO users to obtain an ANSI just for hotswap, perhaps of a different size to their ISO so they are both used for different purposes. Many avid keyboard users on this channel will end up with multiple keyboards anyway, lol
Personally I've found having a smaller enter key the biggest hurdle to using ANSI so far, it's a shame it's close to impossible to find a iso layout when it comes to custom keyboards
Iso keycaps are so hard to find
@Endative have you found any
Well have ISO and ANSI Keyboards around and come back to ISO every time. I don't feel that ANSI is more ergonomic, It's just what you get more used to. To find something custom in ISO layout is a pure pain. At least GMK have ISO options from time to time, but is really $$$
Living in Germany I was torn between buying ISO or ANSI to get into this hobby,. I ended up getting GMK/VIA supported ANSI and built what I call ANSI-DE. Keycaps with NorDE kit are still a pain in the ass to find tho
My problem with the ANSI ENTER key isn't that it's smaller but that it's right next to the apostrophe which I use a lot. That results in me hitting ENTER by accident often. And that's the worst key to press unintentionally. Sure I'd rather have a bigger LEFT SHIFT (should have that anyway really) but it's the lesser evil.
I use both ANSI and ISO and the ISO enter is better in my opinion, you don't accidentally press that unnecessarily large backslash key and you get more area to throw your finger literally and you will hit the enter. Also I don't know what's ANSI's problem with the question sign that you need the shift key to activate it, it gives the forward slash preference over it, I don't get it.
@@SwitchandClickOfficial but it's the default, probably something inherited from the time only programmers used it. I had to swap them with autohotkey.
I needed this
Thanks for explaining this! This stuff got really confusing fast when I started to get into mech keyboards ahha
I had an iso keyboard, but with a long shift, and American “shift number combination”
The keys above the enter on the ANSI keyboard is hard to type. Instead, on the ISO layout this key is on the home row.
If you type in english and only in english the ANSI layout is more convenient. Netherless, if you need to type accents, then the ISO layout makes more sense.
I love you so much this Video is the best I have seen in a while
Some individuals may become upset if their keyboard preference is not labeled as either "normal" or "ergonomic." While an ISO big enter key may be preferred by some, it is objectively less ergonomic. This is due to the fact that it is two keys away from the rest position of the pinky finger, which can hinder typing speed as one must move their hand enough to lose the reference point of the "j" key with their index finger.
I can't find pbt keycap sets that are ISO AND my language. Usually had to mix a few sets: one with the right ISO alphas in my language extension and other for nicer modifiers. To avoid the nightmare I'm finally buying blank keycaps. Also i'm thinking about building a blank ortholinear to avoid the problem completely.
Personally i don't think one layout is superior to other. It only matters which one you learned and used first.
Michaela
Right. It has the proper alphas. Thanks!
Commenting after almost 2 years lol. I don’t type fast so when I am searching for the enter key I use my middle finger and the iso enter shape makes it easier to spot and hit. But since I am not a fast type, I type in both layout just fine. As a Mac user I like the iso layout’s legends a lot more on Apple’s keyboards. I find it not as hard to find iso layout keycap (although much less choices), but a lot harder to find hot swappable iso pcbs.
As a developer I prefer wider left shift and enter buttons. Unfortunately keyboard producers (eg. Logitech) are selling ISO standard in the Europe mostly. This should be an option to choose keyboard layout when buying, but sadly saying it is not.
I thought ANSI was 101 keys & ISO was 102 keys, with Japanese 'JIS' being the 105 due to the extra keys used to toggle for different character sets. I recently switched from a US (ANSI) to a UK (ISO) keyboard for my PC just to try something different. Still getting used to it but really isn't too different as I don't do traditional touch typing. The primary difference in day to day use are the different size and shape of the left-shift and enter keys. Other symbols like ¬ " £ @ ' ~ # | \ € are in different locations vs the US keyboard or not present at all in the US one.
JIS is a 109 key layout that is basically ISO with a split spacebar and extended left shift (2.25U same as ANSI)
I used to use ISO but after using my first ANSI keyboard ISO just feels weird and somewhat wrong
I am from sweden and i use Iso cuz i often need the åäö keys and that’s why it has been kinda hard to make custom keyboards sadly
ANSI/ISO cases are the same, it's the plates that differ.
The "I" in "JIS" stands for "industrial", not "international".
I struggle finding any of the popular keyboard with ISO...
very informative, thank you so much!
i use iso layout on my tecware phantom but theres ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD KEYCAPS that support it, would be cool if people make keycap sets for iso layouts
hmmm i thought ansi was having trouble with a lot of ants.
bad for me cuz i life in germany (iso layout) and id miss the äöü sounds that arent included in ansi boards
I am from the Netherlands and the standard is the ISO keyboard here unfortuneatly. My hands are quite small and I like the long horizontal shift and enter. I can type way faster this way and make less errors. In the normal Dutch key the shift key is small and there is a key placed next to it that I would never use, it really does not make sense to me. Worst thing is that for MacBooks it is almost impossible to find a ANSI keyboard :(
I really want to built a 65% custom board, but like many on here have said, finding a hot swappable ISO PCB is a complete and utter nightmare, and don't even get me started on the keycaps. I was actually considering picking up ANSI keyboard just to eliminate this issue, but my laptop (which I use a fair amount of, if not as much as my desktop) has an ISO based keyboard... and that's a hell I'll not willingly subject myself to.
ISO, because QUERTY and the enter button ist just Humangas.
Imagine being mad and writing in a chat. Pressing the big enter button gives great instant feedback :)
Wanted to build my dad a good keyboard for his birthday
Had no experience with custom keyboards…
I’m Germany, there are 2 sets of ISO key caps available
2….(next to a few cheap replacements for Corsair keyboards for example)
I use three ISO layouts: UK, FR and BE (FR). I would like so much to build a new keyboard with a hot swappable PCB, but it's a nightmare to find a hot swappable 65% PCB with a ISO layout :/
Not gonna lie, working in French with a ANSI layout would be terrible, so I'd rather stick to ISO. But I'd go with ANSI otherwise, so many customization options! *o*
Same problems here for Switzerland... Looked everywhere for a hot swappable 65%,75% and 60%. Nothing... And I'm not going to juggle ctrl commands for entering accents and special characters...
@@sportyeight7769 I forgot about my comment above, but I'm happy to now say it's easier to find hotswap boards! :D I entered the Ikki68 Aurora Group Buy which has a 65% hotswap PCB and it's ISO compatible. There's more and more keyboard kits like this and it's amazing! I live in the UK so I mainly look for UK sellers. If you don't mind ordering from one of them, I'd recommend the HS60 which is a hotswap PCB I ordered from mechboards.co.uk and they have a ISO version :)
Wait a second. Are you saying Belgium doesn't even use French Azerty? Then i really don't get why they just don't use US International like they do across the (north) border. I get so confused when I go a little south. And it's why I can't buy a laptop just a few km south of me. Sigh.
@@PendelSteven Cause writing in French without the dedicated keys to type éèêâîïöüûùç is annoying and complicated.
@@FrFrFrog Can you advise me which keyboard to buy between qwerty us and qwerty international? i will use it mostly as a programmer but I would like to write french sometimes?
I'm looking for that JIS layout, since I'm in Japan.
I tend to feel ISO a bit more ergonomic than ANSI, but it's by a very few, Backslash close to Enter being better placed from a logical point of view, but also because ISO is more adaptaded to Azerty I use, and above all very likely because I'm used to it, like people used to ANSI prefer it, although a long left shift sounds good. But both solutions are not ergonomic for 2 reasons :
1- Each language has different letters occurrences and different accentuations, for instance Bépo layout is way more adapted to French than Qwerty, gosh it's even better than Azerty even though Azerty is french too... And ISO has been developed trying to combine needs for Qwerty and Azerty, which already is a bad idea, and Bépo is trying to feet into this mess, making it less ergonomic than it could be if it had a dedicated layout.
2- A straight keyboard is only ergonomic for manufacturer's tools. There's no ergonomically designed keyboard that can be straight, so ANSI or ISO are both inferior on that front, by far. Comparing them to know which one is more ergonomic is like comparing two tractors to know which one is the fastest vehicle. Think plane for God sake !
So ANSI is superior for only one reason : the largest, and cheapest, abundance of keyboard platforms and keycap kits. But this very artificial superiority is only valid if you're into Qwerty. As soon as you want ANSI Azerty (not even talking about more exotic layouts like Bépo) choice becomes close to none, even manufacturers like WASD allowing you to customize whatever kit you want, delivering ISO or ANSI layouts, do not allow you to get one of their overpriced ANSI ABS only kits (yurk) in Azerty, unless you make them print your special keys one by one for 9 f*****g $ each. So you got to go for ISO and then try to find a compatible platform.
And if you want something as insane as an ANSI Azerty BPT kit with translucent signs, you got to be rich enough to buy your own damn manufacture...
But for sure you can find a s**t load of Qwerty (and exotic stuffs) kits made for ISO. If we would have to keep one poorly designed layout it should be ISO, so it could be as rich in kits diversity than ANSI but would fulfill way more needs. But you know, USA and their ecstasy bugging the rest of the world with stuff like imperial non sense... ANSI = American National Standards, ISO = International Organization for Standardization, once again it's just one more "America F**k Yeah" mess. e_e
I usually programming in my pc and for some reason the ISO layout with the big Enter key I find it easier to use. Its easier to find Enter when you have pulled your hands off the keyboard. I know that you can use the right Enter key also but you know its something that I'm used to. I have a ANSI keyboard also. ISO has one negative also in my opinion, you search on the internet and want to press packspace and you accidentaly press the enter key :P but after time that happens once in a hundred hits . They must create a new layout just for me i guess :D . The left shift in ISO it's exactly the same distance with right shift from their closest letters. I think it's useless so big left shift in ANSI layout.
As someone who has used ANSI my whole life, ISO just makes no sense to me to be honest. I always press the left shift key on the right side, so having a shorter key would not work well for me, especially considering I don't use the right shift key pretty much ever. Same goes with the enter key as I press it on the left side, so having it narrow wouldn't work as well for me as I would have to reach further to press enter. Plus, I do not recall ever pressing the backslash key when I was trying to press enter. For these reasons, ANSI just makes more sense to me in my opinion.
Two words "Giant enter" you would never miss it ;-P
i have no idea watt ur talking about...watts yor TYPE??
You underestimate my need to hit backspace. What's that? Backslash? Oh...
TBH, ISO is easier to type, as you dont run the risk of mistyping the \ instead of enter. That aside, having the key in one simple place allows one to write in english and any other language by just changing the input layout in the OS, instead of requiring to accomodate oneself to the keyboard's limitation as with an ANSI one.
Just a correction not all language have the same symbol on the same caps due to the majority of chars needed I have a uk keyboard and every time I type in italian I have to remember where the chars are in the italian layout
We all know full left shift with ISO enter is goat.
Who needs a 1.5u Pipe anyway?
Thank you so much I saw a key cap set it said iso or ansi and I was like what is difference and I saw ur video so thank you
You can switch the keyboard layout/language in Windows no matter if your physical keyboard is ANSI or ISO. My keyboard is ISO and I'm switching between Finnish and US constantly depending on what I'm doing. I use the US layout for coding and writing English. Some people don't seem to be aware of this.
Good to know though, is that you don't need a programmable keyboard to write in another language. If you have Windows 10 you can change the layout, it works at least if you have enough keys. For an example I have ISO nordic, but changed to DE/german in language preferences, so my Å became the german letter Ü. So if I would have an ANSI layout keyboard I could still use the swedish special letters.
You can do that with any operating system
I think it's very sad that a lot of Custom Keycap Sets don't offer ISO despite being used by the majority of the World. But even if they do support ISO then you still have the Issue of the Different languages.
Germany uses QWERTZ, France uses AZERTY etc. and while i can just swap the Keycap placements for Z and Y most sets don't even have the Letters Ö, Ä or Ü for German or special Letters for other Languages.
I know there is the fully programmable route but it doesn't really make for a very smooth typing experience 😕
US International has ö, ä and ü thanks to the dead "-key.
what happened to the bigass enter key layout - the "backwards L" one?
I have a keyboard that is iso layout and I'm really annoyed with the small left shift key button, can I switch it to ansi layout using windows options since the keyboard is not fully programmable? and if yes then how?
Can someone please tell me where i can buy ISO keycaps
Its very common. Even on many keycap store websites. It really depends on where you live
many Keycap Sets come with Kits for ISO. An easy and cheap way is to browse on AliExpress/Banggood. Many Group Buys have even a Norde Kit, if you’re German or something similar with Letters like öäüåé whatsoever.
i could never use ansi. I live in germany and we have ÖÄÜ and it would be a pain to set these keys differently. Also many symbols are placed in different spots. I dont wanna change my typing behaviour just to have nicer keycaps
I have always used to type on an iso layout and for the past 10 years I always used to type on laptops and just now I am starting to get into mechanical keyboards. I am willing to try and type on an ansi layout as I never tried it personally because of that longer shift key on the left however I am a bit hesitant just beacause of the muscle memory i got after 15 years of typing and using iso. my native language is not English and we do have some extra letters on our alphabet (30 letters instead of 26) despite that my keyboard still has the standard uk layout of iso.
Above all most local shops only supply keyboard in iso layout.
ANSISO :< ANSI with vertical enter is BEST
ISO is way better. So easy to strike hard on that super large enter. Miss that on ansi
I have a Mac Book 14 inch with ISO layout and I wish Apple would stick to ANSI for its keyboards in Europe. The ISO layout is just ergonomically bad compared to ANSI and I don't see the point of it for Latin-only keyboards.
"Normal" left shift key. "And the additional key on ISO layouts can be used in other languages". I'm surprised she didn't call other languages "foreign" languages.
Downsides of ANSI: I never use backslash and | key on ANSI and we use ~ a lot in Korean but it's in a corner on ANSI... on ISO I like the large enter key but would hate small left shift!
backslash in ANSI is same distance like Enter in ISO
My only issue is the lack of £ € symbols on keycaps, yes I can program a keyboard but I like to so see the symbols , not a massive issue I know, but hey I'm used to seeing them.
My laptop had a ISO layout, i brought a rk61, and it was only when i went to buy keycaps for it is when i realised that no keycap set fit for it and that my brothers 60% was different, then i found out about ISO and ANSI layouts.... I think both layouts are nice but ISO makes it harder to buy keycaps....
Its very difficult to find ISO keycaps, the only one that ive found are the hyperx Pudding keycaps but they are ABS not PBT. Cheers from Perú!
Razer PBT caps do ISO, and there are some generic on Amazon that do.
I prefer ISO because ANSI is missing three of the letters in my alphabet..
the perfect layout is ansi with iso enter key
Back in the nineties here in Latvia, Europe we had keyboards that had both a normal Shift key and a tall Enter key. These are important for typing capital letters and issue an affirmative command, sometimes to slam the Enter in a hurry in games. The Shift, Enter and Backspace should be different in shape to distinguish them by touch. With a narrow Enter, I find myself mistakenly typing a backslash if I want to press Enter.
escrapohio.com/ebaypictures/1998-1.JPG
i.imgur.com/kJ3H6d4.jpg
This layout seems to date back a long time as the first example is quite old (no Windows, AppsKey).
The backslash is important for typing file paths correctly on Windows. While navigating with the arrow keys in games the backslash can be assigned to a function, and the Shift remains clearly distinct.
None of these special keyboards are really needed for languages. Special characters can be arranged logically on another layer. Or even two layers. Besides AltGr, it is possible to have a Dead Key (de facto standard here). It might not seem ergonomical, but it is better than disturbing an already existing layout containing the most often typed symbols.
The UK layout is most annoying. The Shift is smaller, nearly the size of a normal key, and the first regular key is not a Z, but a backslash. I don't type by the book, and often count from the left.
Now, if only there were 2 types of keyboards. Look at photos of keyboards for sale: the backslash key is found anywhere. Then they try to fit a Fn key and Shut Down key or Web Browser key, etc.
ISO is “Iso” (acronym), not “I.S.O.” according to ISO :) the unavailability of ISO stuff is kind of terrible; ANSI/English folks has like 100X the amount of good choices compared to what I find for my ISO localization. There’s like a few enthusiast options in DSA and NP-profile, and then a bit more mainstream the gaming companies typically have their keycap sets available. Would be great if enthusiast keycap designers offered an extension set with all the SE/DK/NO/CH/DE/FR/… buttons, it’s probably only like some 20 additional buttons to make the keycaps available to most of the of the A-Z derivations.
I wish US would use international standards and not their own. So hard to find a nice ISO keyboard thats not a big brand like corsair or logitech
ISO giant enter Key is superior, just got to try it for your self, SOOO many times you just want to hit Enter, and it's SO BIG on ISO you can't miss it, it really the main reason I would Always choose ISO, if ANSI would just make an enter key like the ISO one, I would switch to ANSI.
Well i'm from germany so people here dont use ansi layout. however i switched to ansi a while ago and its just so much better than the layout everyones using here.
How are you writing without Ä Ü Ö and so on ?
@@LEK I have my function key on capslock, and put macros in place on second layer for caps+a=ä caps+o=ö and so on. its actually more fluid while typing than on iso layout in my oppinion
@@LEK You can use US International layout, with US + all the EU extra keys