@qma Pretty much the same story, I found Oblivion after youtube's algorithm decided to show me Oblivion mods. I was so blown away about a game with so much freedom also having the ability to add on virtually endless new content that I immediately got it. Enjoyed it for about a year before Skyrim was announced and was hyping for it every day. Immediate went to buy it after school in a local store too. Still have the box with the map. (ironically my last physical copy as skyrim introduced me to steam)
Portal to the Shivering Isles is an interesting one. There is dialogue in the DLC about that. When asking Haskill about the door he replies: _"Because my Lord wills it to be so. It poses no danger to Mundus; no compact has been violated. It is a doorway, an invitation. Perhaps you will accept it for what it is."_ As I understand it, this implies that gateways between Mundus and Oblivion can be opened if there is no hostile intent, nor any intentions of its in habitats from Oblivion to move to Mundus. Or in simpler terms, if the gateway can only be used by Mortals, and only if they are not forced to use it. Due to how strange the rules of Gods can be, let alone the laws of the Mundus, I actually believe its plausible to create a stable gateway in this manner. Especially considering Sheogorath's story's are always about showing how in his madness, he finds loopholes to rules that nobody else can see or even use.
That makes me think that there could potentially be portals to realms of oblivion that have a corresponding portal that you could go through if you wanted to go to a specific place on nirn or in mundus in general. Sorta like the nether portal trick in minecraft.
"Cameron's son" is referring to King Cameron of Sentinel, who killed his first born before the events of Daggerfall Prince Lhotun gives The Agent a quest to uncover the mystery during Daggerfall
sounds about right, and a little funfact in german the city is called "Dolchsturz" which translates to dagger and "sturz" can be used in the meaning of overthrowing
The Fallout Universe has its own supernatural deities and entities like Ug-Qualtoth, Atom, Agarthans (hypothetically) as well as outer space alien lifeforms.
"Anumidium Models" might be a reference to the weird, massive skeletons you can see buried in the walls of the long tunnel you fall down when you enter Kagrenzel in Skyrim (they're easiest to see on the mini map), which have been postulated to be models of the Numidium that Kagranac made while developing the Brass God. The fact that there are a row of arches on the main building heading toward Morrowind supports a strong connection to Morrowind for that particular Dwemmer ruin.
The Serpent constellation. A theory I've heard is that its Un-stars formed by the Hist breaking through into mudnus after creation, and the constellation travels around taking the place of other constellation and stealing souls for the Hist. The Great Serpent is the name of Sithis worshipped by the Pre-Duskfall Saxhleel.
Wayrest painting secret message: Painting the Truth is a main quest in The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall. Queen Akorithi desires a painting hidden within Castle Wayrest. Upon retrieving the painting, the following message is displayed: The scene in the painting shifts and twists. You can clearly see the inside of a tent. Several men in the livery of Wayrest are intensely debating with a man bearing the coat of arms of Daggerfall. One of the Wayrest men slips behind the Daggerfall man, draws a dagger and casually slides it between his ribs. The image fades as the life ebbs from his body.
Regarding the "ankhs" entry, it's just about the fact that Daggerfall and Redguard had some ankhs in the Hammerfell sceneries and mentioned in book descriptions, so there's the theory that they're representative of one of the Yokudan deities (or maybe a forgotten one), but most likely just stems from the more generic approach the early games had to fantasy.
Wayrest Painting, There's a quest to recover a stolen painting, upon examining it a murder is revealed. This is from Daggerfall ESII. You had to complete a number of quests for it to trigger, Cheers
"Infinitely large planetoids" is a reference to how other dimensions/worlds work. The Daedric realms are said to be infinite in size. Its assumed that the Aedric realms/8 divine realms are also infinite in size. However they can be seen when watching towards the sky from Nirn. But due to the mortal mind being unable to understand the concept of an "infinite" world, all they really see is a sphere in the night sky. I've been rattling my brain over that one for years now. I mean what would the sky look like to a divine being? If all realms, including Oblivion and the void itself are infinite, then logically speaking they should be seeing all realms, all at the same time while looking at the sky. Even though they should be overlapping each-other so only one would be visible, somehow they should be able to see them all at the same time, everywhere.
In mathematics their are different values of infinity And several infinity can exist at once Space is infinitely large But things are also able to be infinitely small
@@memeshort7189 True, but Daedric realms have been visited, and have been shown to truly be infinite in size. Along with that, there is also the thing that took me many MANY years to accept. Our world's logic, mathematics, natural laws and all that don't apply to the Elder Scrolls universe. It has its own set of rules build upon the will of great spirits that gave their lives to sustain these "laws". Quote from a book in Tes: _"The planets are the gods and the planes of the gods, which is the same thing. That they appear as spherical heavenly bodies is a visual phenomena caused by mortal mental stress. Since each plane(t) is an infinite mass of infinite size, as yet surrounded by the Void of Oblivion, the mortal eye registers them as bubbles within a space. _*_Planets are magical and impossible."_* It was quite literally written as an impossible, paradoxical concept that even we as mortals here in reality cannot comprehend, calculate or rationalize.
@@jefthereaper oh I know it says that but I've never liked that interpretation I don't think the gods are as powerful as they say there is no evidence that they are
I've wondered the same thing, but with Daedra. So mortals see an empty black sky where the realms of Oblivion are and sphere are the divines - both being infinite in reality but limited in mortal perception. So if you summon a Dremora at night and he looks up at the sky, what does he see? He will see all the planes of Oblivion, which he will also see as infinite, and the bodies of the divines, which he will also see as infinite.
Pretty sure Drew mentioned he feared losing himself in Mora’s realm in a previous Daedrologist video. So I am guessing he has a personal portal to travel there when he wishes. Bet Hermaeous is trying to ensnare him for that knowledge thirst! 😄
5:20 Morrowind's addmitance into the empire included a self governance clause basically letting them do as they pleased as long as the gold kept flowing and it didn't hurt the rest of the empire.
There's a pretty solid foundation of symbology within the Elder Scrolls series. I think the lore is able to get away with a lot due to that, as well as the sheer density of content throughout the games.
Yehh they are all great but the amount of podcasts where drew or Michael will be making a great point and Scott jumps in and it goes no where and kills the convo then they move on. Michael has started to talk alot more after the first few and not letting Scott away with it lol but drew is just to nice by the look of it. He never jumps in and when the others start talking he just stops lol. Great podcast tho
He's just taking the example of Vivec. If you keep telling everyone the answers, you will deprive them of their own journey and struggle of growth. So he just listens and takes in what they perceive.
It's 12 below out I'm currently eating chicken nuggets out the dumpster but watching fudgemuppet make me feel like it's a 70 degree day n I'm eating butter shimp out the red lobster dumpster back before they started locking it. Ahhh great day to be alive.
The Bosmer being part human could also be a reference to the “manish wives” line. I have interpreted it as the Bosmer being kind of like reverse Bretons.
I have a few lore topics I would like covered but it’s like the relationship between the dragon blood and Lorkhan since they do have cases that the two have a correlation. I have a few others but none off the top of my head
Regarding the Great Collapse, the idea is that the conclusion of the College of Winterhold questline would result in the Great Collapse (like the player would destroy the Eye and the explosion would annihilate Winterhold or something like that). But, that storyline was too ambitious for Bethesda's ability and/or release date, so it became more cut content. Why Bethesda decided to keep the idea of the Great Collapse even though the explosion that was supposed to cause it was cut from the game is beyond me.
Tell us more about the Lunar Lorkhan, the Lunar lattice, and how Azura apparently made it or at least controls it yet she didn’t have a hand in Mundus or nirn and is Daedra. And if her skeleton key can be used to open the way to oblivion thru the lunar lattice why hasn’t other princes or the current master of it Nocturnal used it?
Absolutely make a video about the three headed Talos theory, please! Would love to hear your guys' thoughts and theories about the whole idea. Very fun, and probably one of the most convoluted concept in TES.
25:30 You see and fight one such army in Tribunal's main quest. You go down into the sewers of Mournhold and destroy the mercenary golbin army hired by King Helseth against the Temple. The army is explicitely said to come from Summerset and it is led by two Altmer slavedrivers you can also kill for extra gold.
lets gooooooooooooooooooo karthwasten massacre is just a random location chosen by either side of the civil war during the negotiations of season unending, talluis could say we need compensation for the karthwasten massacre soul trade is probably talking about the ideal masters dealing in souls as a currency in the soul cairn in racial phylogeny there is also a half giant girl in eso yakudan chronology is probably the idea that redguards are not natives of this nirn and that in their timeline alduin destroyed the world but before that happened they traveled to our nirn and our timeline. thank you guys for the video it was a lot of fun
I seriously enjoy you guys very much, always such an amazing podcast. As I say all the time, I look more forward to this other then any podcast. You have made sundays my favourite days. All you guys are looking awesome. Sound is awesome and equal between you all.. Video is super clear. Drew I love your library above your head. Is that Canterbury Classics above your head? I have a few of those books including Robert Stevenson 7 stories and the brothers Grimm. Drew I love how well you just listened and only put in when you thought it was needed/ had something to add Micheal I really enjoyed how you checked your information so you weren’t mis-quoting. Man that beard is coming out great! Scott, I feel you set the tone for how the podcast continues going forward is just Vonderbar (I know it’s not spelt right, im trying to say it in phonetics) you just constantly want to explore more BUT!!!!!! Can we please get the 36 lessons of Vivec!?!! You say this one was long, can’t wait for that one! 🤣
Okay, I understand the "Reman" and "Cum" parts. It's when he impregnated a hill on Cyrod. But what does "Moon" and "Vaults" had to do with... ...it's not about spaceships right? I know those existed in TES.
christ you have no idea howmuch i needed this, eversince ive seen this iceberg image few month back i had this weird obsession of finding what every word meant on this chart and it has been driving me fucking bananas, thank you for doing this honestly
i love how when u guys do interrupt each other, its at points where the rest of the interrupted sentence can pretty easily be accurately presumed and it's always only to continue the conversation
In the book Lusty Argonian Maid, an Oral Tradition, it states that the tale was originally created by khajiit bard named Tale-Singer, and several other cultures across Tamriel had their own versions. It's pronounced Reekling, due to Nord Etymology being very similar to real world germanic/slavic etymology, "ie" will make a long-E sound while "ei" makes the long-I sound of pronouncing it like rykling There is an concept art of a map of Morrowind that marks a city marker on it labeled "Sotha Sil" along the southern border, west of Tear. I do also remember seeing a map of Black Marsh, although this one may be unofficial, that had a small part of Morrowind on it. Marked in the same location that would line up with the concept art, was a marker for a city labeled "Sotha Sil." There are a few depictions of Kynareth with an ankh. I don't know what it represents in her circles, however.
"Giant are Orcs" is a roundabout way of saying Giants are malacath's people in that they are pariahs. Giants even take over a Malacath Shrine from the Orcs in Malacath's quest in Skyrim.
1:36:00 if you activate the painting (i.e. use it) it tells you what you see when you look at the painting, and it goes into some pretty big details. The queen asks if you looked at it, if you say yes, she's pissed, if you say no (even if you lie) she's happy. AFAIK it doesn't really matter either way.
"The Red Dome Templars were psycho-crusaders who drank the blood of Talos to get short-term martial shouting powers. The rest of the Army hated them (and much of the Elder Council wanted them dispersed), which is mainly why they were shoved off to places like Morrowind."
I like to think Heartstones are pieces of the Akulakhan (or cooled chuncks of lava) that was effected by Lorkans heart and that were fired out of Red Mountain upon it's eruption
Fun Fact: Fort Sutch in Oblivion had a silent quest tied along with it where the Imperial legion leads a small force against a nearby oblivion gate. The player can join up and if you follow the direction of the commander fight a few waves of enemies that come from the gate and then are asked to enter and close the gate. Afterward the quest wraps up with the Imperials thanking you and the remaining troops go back and guard the fort.
The best part about tes is that everyone plays different games at different speeds & levels of completion to the point were you almost create your own version of the game in your head as you go. Playing eso and being able to go to all the historic places and having so much content available is insane. For example The imperial sewers is way different in my head because the version in eso is not like oblivion at all. I can visit the psijic order collect artifacts for their museum or visit my psijic manor. Love your videos they really help flesh out such a amazing game series
I think the infinitely large planetoid is a reference to the fact that the aedric plane(t)s are "infinite" planes of the divine taking a spherical (so the planets) shape in the sky for some reason, just as the daedric planes are infinite
I saw videos from half a decade ago, & thought I would have unsubscribed if I hadn't heard your more modern videos. Listening to your videos closer to the present, particularly this one, I'm grateful I was exposed to your videos more recently. You guys are awesome.
The "Alessian Year" is an attempt by Fal Droon to discredit the notion of a Dragon Break, in his book "The Dragon Break Reexamined". Basically, the dates from the Alessian Order don't necessarily add up. The consensus (supported by historical accounts from all factions present at the time) is that the Marukhati Selective attempted to change the nature of Akatosh and caused a dragon break called the "Middle Dawn". Fal Droon insists, with no supporting evidence provided to the player so far, that the discrepancy in timelines is because the Alessian Order didn't measure their years by the Sun or the Stars or the Moons like normal people, but "the length of the long vision-trances undertaken by the High Priestess, which might last anywhere from a few weeks to several months." Given that the Middle Dawn is the only dragon break observed universally (by the fall of eight stars), it's odd that he spends so much effort attempting to debunk it. It's also amusing that his book, obviously written after the fall of the Septim Empire, appears in Morrowind and Oblivion, times when the Septim Empire was perfectly fine. It seems his very work may have been caught up in a Break. Either that or he has spectacular powers of prophecy.
Regarding the Shivering Isles door in the Niben, I think Sheogorath or Haskill says that it doesn’t violate the Dragonborn Covenant because there’s no invasion. He’s just allowing people easier access to his realm. Side note: I find it interesting that the Hero of Kvatch would mantle the Mad God, presumably after doing Knights of the Nine, because Pelinal was batshit insane, too. Is there something about the job of Crusader?
@Ratso Fatso Hey don’t get me wrong, I completely agree. But when the man straight up massacres them wholesale like Doomguy and tore one Ayleid king’s throat out with his teeth? Guy’s crazy. Might’ve been a divine madness, him possibly being a Shezzarine, but he’s a nutcase.
as a long tim fan i was kinda suprised when Drew was added to fudgemuppet, but now hes honestly my favourite member. alsways has great insights and jokes
underground falmor colonies might be refering to the fact that we are told the forgoten vale is alot alot bigger then what we can explore in skyrim because of collapses and stuff made those parts of the vale unaccessible from the skyrim players point of view if they were referring to uncorrupted falmer it would say snow elves
so, Talos fake god, could refer to the fact that it was the dragon break at the end of Daggerfall that ascended Tiber Septim to the role of Talos.......
I started watching another channel's ES iceberg, but when he said he wasn't well versed and he may make some mistakes, I hit this recommended Fudgemuppet videos. The true ES lore masters.
CODA. I also do think that Fallout and Elder Scrolls could be easily connected through CHIM / Amaranth. "Creating a new world" is just playing another game, and our own real universe is one such game. Elder Scrolls characters are unique in that those who achieve CHIM are conscious of the fact that they are video game characters and accept that fact. They have realized the truth of their own Matrix and may even be aware of the world of their creators.
ES lore is a clear case of the creation going beyond the intentions of its creators, both in-lore and in real life. It's no stretch for me to imagine that Daedric worship is a legitimate real-life form of religious practice, as Elder Scrolls cosmology is more metaphysically consistent than the majority of real-world religions.
1:38:24. I believe The yokudan Chronology is a reference to them.being from a previous Kalpa Cycle same as the Left Handed Elves!!! Is just a theory though.
What do you think the Fur Armor in Vvardenfel is made from if not Khajiit? I dont remember seeing any other fur bearing mammals on that ash blasted island.
56:35 "How are the stars (celestials, constellations, signs) gods?" Well, think of it this way: They are collections of holes from reality into the divine. Individually they may just be holes, but as mortals draw on their power, perceive them as entities, perhaps they give them some sort of real life. Honestly it sounds bonkers crazy and there probably isn't much lore to support this theory, but the constellations, as beings who exist on the border between Mundus and Aetherius sounds REALLY cool.
59:20 I feel like this is alluding to leveling up, meditating on what you've learned is a sort of self-reflection. Or maybe it's got something to do with reflecting spells with an on self spell, but I doubt that. Edit: I watched for like 5 more seconds and michael made the same dumb joke as me lol
Moths often paired with the moon, the moon gets its light from the sun, moths have compound eyes to view ultraviolet waves. It could go deeper than just compund eyes
44:41. Camelworks did a 3 hour video about the Augur of Dunlain. Where he even finds the character model for this entity we meet. Looks like he's half Hag raven!!! Incredible
Wait, that's a really good point: Why WOULD the moth priests allow "Celia Camoran" (or anyone who is not a moth priest) access to an Elder Scroll? Not only because it is incredibly dangerous, but also because they are very closely guarded and by tradition no one outside of their order is allowed to view them. And if Celia Camoran is not a real person, I feel like someone would have been able to check that, given the prominence of the Camoran family.
They gloss over collapse of Winterhold here, but the work done I think by Camel, to show the depth of the Auger of Dundain, his face, his forsworn roots, the tributes in the midden, is so comprehensive and is 100% cannon lore shows the surprising depths that are there even in the game files.
The real bottom of the iceberg: 1) The Dwemer are stuck in a causal time loop, continually teleporting their species back in time to Tamriel when they tap into Lorkhan's heart, just after Lorkhan's was torn asunder. This explains their existence on Tamriel prior to Topal's survey. 2) The Snow Elves didn't kill the Atmorans. They originally befriended them, but the Atmorans were split when they saw the Eye of Magnus. Ysgramor coveted power and slew the other Atmorans before attemption to gaining control of the Eye and before the Snow Elves could rally to the sides of those who stood against Ysgramor. Those Atmorans who were left behind fled to High Rock, eventually being enslaved by the Aldmeri some generations later. There were believed to be men, they called themselved Nordic, so of course they were called Nedic. Eventually, they would become the Bretons. Unfortunately for the Snow Elves, Ysgramor's people won the war in Atmora and he was able to rally them with his deceit and returned with the Companions for "vengeance." It was only then that the Snow Elves fled underground to the Dwemer, who chose to allow them to stay, as long as they could not see the Dwemer secrets (imagine how much more advanced they were if their tonal magic went through two, three, or a hundred cycles of the time loop). 3) The Sleeping Tree isn't a magical tree from a flying continent. It's Harold.
With all his texts, it’s very clear he draws heaps of inspiration from Gnosticism. Some of the wildest stuff in elder scrolls is straight up from Buddhism and it’s so interesting to see how he takes those gnostic religions and makes them into something new. Don’t even get me started on Vivec haha
The temple withholding vampire cure is a reference to how the book series talking about vampires has a fourth novel. The fourth is the only one that is banned and is the one that talks about curing Vampirism in its entirety. Also the whole point of Legends is that it's a *legend*. The forgotten hero and the titus mede being absent is a literal campfire story without any proof Karthwasten Massacre was a cut town that was in the lore/maps before the game Skyrim. Little information about it exists outside the peace meeting quote. Implying there was supposed to be more about it ingame with a ruin or survivors to hammer in the Nord nationalist thing being a very ugly thing outside "muh talos worship" Giant mudcrab also might refer to the one you hunt down during the Kyne's Trials, implying there are more out there. Or the Skar, the giant crustacean that the Redoran carved out and made their HQ in. And in fact brought back from the dead to fight the Argonians during their invasion. The secret tunnels refer to multiple things, of which you mentioned but also the starting dungeon in Arena. It's just a fan theory about how *many are actually under there. And what the hell did the Ayleids put down there*.
I saw this iceberg and searched it into youtube with the hopes that anyone would cover it as seeing fudgemuppet pop up my instant reaction was "YEEESSSSSSS"
the tunnels under the white gold tower are also sort of mentioned in the oblivion thieves guild as how they get to every part of the city even the palace
I think the Daedric ritual abuse is the idea that the protagonist in the games just runs around becoming the champion of all these princes without repercussions in an effort to fill their "pokedex" of artifacts.
Question about Rorikstead. When you pick up the document that details holds in Skyrim from Dragonsreach, with the Delphine/Farengar conversation, it mentions 'Roriksteading', but it's mentioning a time over a thousand years ago, if I'm not wrong. What's up with that?
That's the funny thing with game lore such as Elder Scrolls. It goes as deep as you want it to go, it's all just a matter of perspective To the layman, who plays casually to explore and relax? The world is just a pretty backdrop. To the loremaster who wants to delve into the deep uncharted stories and figure out the puzzle of the world? It is fathomless And in the end, both are valid ways of reading the source material
Yeah. To me when I first played Skyrim, it was just a game in a fantasy world then as I played more and watched more youtube videos I became in love with how deep the lore goes.
The last time I was this early, Vilod still made that mead with the juniper berries mixed in.
comedy gold.
And Ralof was still sweet on a girl from helgen
And we didn't get caught crossing the border
'Drink for the dirty! Food for the Monkey!'
And I would've stolen that horse and been half way to hammerfell
How deep does the Lorehole go?
Jumped in 10 years ago, still falling.
nice
@qma I know, hits hard right?
I can't even remember 2011 & 2012,
was so addicted to that game that I played it every day for two years straight.
@qma Pretty much the same story, I found Oblivion after youtube's algorithm decided to show me Oblivion mods.
I was so blown away about a game with so much freedom also having the ability to add on virtually endless new content that I immediately got it.
Enjoyed it for about a year before Skyrim was announced and was hyping for it every day.
Immediate went to buy it after school in a local store too.
Still have the box with the map.
(ironically my last physical copy as skyrim introduced me to steam)
Portal to the Shivering Isles is an interesting one.
There is dialogue in the DLC about that.
When asking Haskill about the door he replies: _"Because my Lord wills it to be so. It poses no danger to Mundus; no compact has been violated. It is a doorway, an invitation. Perhaps you will accept it for what it is."_
As I understand it, this implies that gateways between Mundus and Oblivion can be opened if there is no hostile intent, nor any intentions of its in habitats from Oblivion to move to Mundus.
Or in simpler terms, if the gateway can only be used by Mortals, and only if they are not forced to use it.
Due to how strange the rules of Gods can be, let alone the laws of the Mundus, I actually believe its plausible to create a stable gateway in this manner.
Especially considering Sheogorath's story's are always about showing how in his madness, he finds loopholes to rules that nobody else can see or even use.
Good shit. Their own asylum by choice.
Sheo is giga side-brain
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 yes
That makes me think that there could potentially be portals to realms of oblivion that have a corresponding portal that you could go through if you wanted to go to a specific place on nirn or in mundus in general. Sorta like the nether portal trick in minecraft.
Basically: it’s a plot hole and we are pulling stuff out of kirkbrides ass to explain it
When she says go deeper but you ran out of lore...
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
But you fired michael kirkbride*
@@BaalFridge lmao
Happy Valentine’s Day 🤣
Giggidy
"The nords were part of the old elhnofey"
Altmer: incoherent screaming
Why? The Altmer descend from the Elhnofey of Auri-El. The Nords descend from the Elhnofey of Lorkhan.
@@muslimcrusader5987 I’m pretty sure Altmer came from the Old Ehlnofey, not the Nords, who came from the Wandering Ehlnofey I believe.
@@betambalu9785 You are right.
@@betambalu9785 I concur professor
That's just a memetic weapon to Altmer
"Cameron's son" is referring to King Cameron of Sentinel, who killed his first born before the events of Daggerfall Prince Lhotun gives The Agent a quest to uncover the mystery during Daggerfall
sounds about right, and a little funfact in german the city is called "Dolchsturz" which translates to dagger and "sturz" can be used in the meaning of overthrowing
Take the vanilla pill and you will experience the game as per normal, take the Fudgemuppet pill and see just how far the iceberg goes.
Take the Truestl pill and you'll realize that it's not an iceberg, it's an glacier.
the blind god is with us
"woah"
Take the loverslab pill.
@@klobknocker65 :/
This podcast is my date for tonight.
facts 🥲
Too much info lmao
Same
'May your road lead you to warm sands...and wet Dibellites'.
The waiters looking at me weird
Self reflection is about how when you level up in morrowind there’s these texts that talk all what you’ve learned about yourself in a way.
I hope they bring back the level up texts for es6
Additionally, there are only two things that drop wisp wrappings: Wispmothers and high level Falmer
never noticed that, good call.
I'm convinced that Bethesda doesn't want to do "half breed" solely because they don't want everyone to be cat girls.
You have any idea how well an elder scrolls game with cat girls would sell?
Joke's on you, there are probably dozens of mods for that.
@@asiblingproduction But at what cost
@@NickPotatoes I meeeaaan technically cat girls are in the lore so... its only a matter of time
The Ohmes and Tojay species of Khajiit are catgirls
If Mantling is true and the Fallout universe is linked, does that mean The King has successfully mantled Elvis Presley?
Yes.
Ain't that a kick in the head
Good joke man
The Fallout Universe has its own supernatural deities and entities like Ug-Qualtoth, Atom, Agarthans (hypothetically) as well as outer space alien lifeforms.
@@muslimcrusader5987 and elvis, mantled by the king
Deep as the argonian maiden
I was having a good day until I read this.
Why?
Ayo
World-Of-The-Dead would agree...
@@chrisherndon3143 And now I'll have a good night!
"Anumidium Models" might be a reference to the weird, massive skeletons you can see buried in the walls of the long tunnel you fall down when you enter Kagrenzel in Skyrim (they're easiest to see on the mini map), which have been postulated to be models of the Numidium that Kagranac made while developing the Brass God. The fact that there are a row of arches on the main building heading toward Morrowind supports a strong connection to Morrowind for that particular Dwemmer ruin.
The Serpent constellation. A theory I've heard is that its Un-stars formed by the Hist breaking through into mudnus after creation, and the constellation travels around taking the place of other constellation and stealing souls for the Hist. The Great Serpent is the name of Sithis worshipped by the Pre-Duskfall Saxhleel.
This was the best one so far 😍 you've pandered to my exact tastes: long, memes, galaxy brain lore takes, debunking 👏
@FstSergeant8595 same tbh!
Wayrest painting secret message: Painting the Truth is a main quest in The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall. Queen Akorithi desires a painting hidden within Castle Wayrest. Upon retrieving the painting, the following message is displayed:
The scene in the painting shifts and twists. You can clearly see the inside of a tent. Several men in the livery of Wayrest are intensely debating with a man bearing the coat of arms of Daggerfall. One of the Wayrest men slips behind the Daggerfall man, draws a dagger and casually slides it between his ribs. The image fades as the life ebbs from his body.
Regarding the "ankhs" entry, it's just about the fact that Daggerfall and Redguard had some ankhs in the Hammerfell sceneries and mentioned in book descriptions, so there's the theory that they're representative of one of the Yokudan deities (or maybe a forgotten one), but most likely just stems from the more generic approach the early games had to fantasy.
Wayrest Painting, There's a quest to recover a stolen painting, upon examining it a murder is revealed. This is from Daggerfall ESII.
You had to complete a number of quests for it to trigger, Cheers
Huh... didn't know about that one but it sounds really cool
"Infinitely large planetoids" is a reference to how other dimensions/worlds work.
The Daedric realms are said to be infinite in size.
Its assumed that the Aedric realms/8 divine realms are also infinite in size.
However they can be seen when watching towards the sky from Nirn.
But due to the mortal mind being unable to understand the concept of an "infinite" world, all they really see is a sphere in the night sky.
I've been rattling my brain over that one for years now.
I mean what would the sky look like to a divine being?
If all realms, including Oblivion and the void itself are infinite, then logically speaking they should be seeing all realms, all at the same time while looking at the sky.
Even though they should be overlapping each-other so only one would be visible, somehow they should be able to see them all at the same time, everywhere.
In mathematics their are different values of infinity
And several infinity can exist at once
Space is infinitely large
But things are also able to be infinitely small
@@memeshort7189 infinetely small is harder to imagine than infinitely large imo
@@memeshort7189 True, but Daedric realms have been visited, and have been shown to truly be infinite in size.
Along with that, there is also the thing that took me many MANY years to accept.
Our world's logic, mathematics, natural laws and all that don't apply to the Elder Scrolls universe.
It has its own set of rules build upon the will of great spirits that gave their lives to sustain these "laws".
Quote from a book in Tes: _"The planets are the gods and the planes of the gods, which is the same thing. That they appear as spherical heavenly bodies is a visual phenomena caused by mortal mental stress. Since each plane(t) is an infinite mass of infinite size, as yet surrounded by the Void of Oblivion, the mortal eye registers them as bubbles within a space. _*_Planets are magical and impossible."_*
It was quite literally written as an impossible, paradoxical concept that even we as mortals here in reality cannot comprehend, calculate or rationalize.
@@jefthereaper oh I know it says that but I've never liked that interpretation
I don't think the gods are as powerful as they say there is no evidence that they are
I've wondered the same thing, but with Daedra.
So mortals see an empty black sky where the realms of Oblivion are and sphere are the divines - both being infinite in reality but limited in mortal perception.
So if you summon a Dremora at night and he looks up at the sky, what does he see? He will see all the planes of Oblivion, which he will also see as infinite, and the bodies of the divines, which he will also see as infinite.
"how deep does the lore go?" *takes almost 2 hours explaining said lore*
only the top three sections...
Ah yes, since 1977 Bee Gees have asked: "How deep is your LORE, your loOoore"
Your knowledge of the Elder scrolls is truly impressive, ive come to the conclusion that you have a portal to the realm of Hermaeus Mora.
Their channel is
Pretty sure Drew mentioned he feared losing himself in Mora’s realm in a previous Daedrologist video. So I am guessing he has a personal portal to travel there when he wishes. Bet Hermaeous is trying to ensnare him for that knowledge thirst! 😄
5:20 Morrowind's addmitance into the empire included a self governance clause basically letting them do as they pleased as long as the gold kept flowing and it didn't hurt the rest of the empire.
There's a pretty solid foundation of symbology within the Elder Scrolls series. I think the lore is able to get away with a lot due to that, as well as the sheer density of content throughout the games.
Self-reflection: when the dream no longer needs its dreamer
11:07 “Night of Green Flame” sounds like both a Big Trouble in Little China AND irl Kristallnacht reference!
Anybody else feel like Drew should talk a bit more. He has really great insights into things, but doesn’t let em out too much.
Agreed but He’s too much of a gent/passive to keep interjecting like the other two.
Yehh they are all great but the amount of podcasts where drew or Michael will be making a great point and Scott jumps in and it goes no where and kills the convo then they move on. Michael has started to talk alot more after the first few and not letting Scott away with it lol but drew is just to nice by the look of it. He never jumps in and when the others start talking he just stops lol. Great podcast tho
"I'm master Scott, I speak for the Fudgebeards"
He's just taking the example of Vivec.
If you keep telling everyone the answers, you will deprive them of their own journey and struggle of growth.
So he just listens and takes in what they perceive.
hes secretly hermaeous mora
It's 12 below out I'm currently eating chicken nuggets out the dumpster but watching fudgemuppet make me feel like it's a 70 degree day n I'm eating butter shimp out the red lobster dumpster back before they started locking it. Ahhh great day to be alive.
Good luck.
You guys could probably do a pod cast on every one of these topics keep up the good work
The Bosmer being part human could also be a reference to the “manish wives” line. I have interpreted it as the Bosmer being kind of like reverse Bretons.
I have a few lore topics I would like covered but it’s like the relationship between the dragon blood and Lorkhan since they do have cases that the two have a correlation. I have a few others but none off the top of my head
Ok
Regarding the Great Collapse, the idea is that the conclusion of the College of Winterhold questline would result in the Great Collapse (like the player would destroy the Eye and the explosion would annihilate Winterhold or something like that). But, that storyline was too ambitious for Bethesda's ability and/or release date, so it became more cut content. Why Bethesda decided to keep the idea of the Great Collapse even though the explosion that was supposed to cause it was cut from the game is beyond me.
Hold up. *We* were supposed to be the cause of the Great Collapse?! Not sure how to feel about that...
My guess is the psijic order and the eye of magnus will pop up in TES6.
@Mitch honestly it'll be very disappointing if it doesn't. It feels like an unfinished plot hook as is
Tell us more about the Lunar Lorkhan, the Lunar lattice, and how Azura apparently made it or at least controls it yet she didn’t have a hand in Mundus or nirn and is Daedra. And if her skeleton key can be used to open the way to oblivion thru the lunar lattice why hasn’t other princes or the current master of it Nocturnal used it?
Azuras skeleton key?
i was playing morrowind while watching this and as you talked about the naked nords, i ran into the guy just north of caldera
coincidence????
I do miss those random non-consenting nudists...
Yes.
Synchronicity ;)
Every Copy of Morrowind is Personalised
Those damn witches are at it again
Absolutely make a video about the three headed Talos theory, please! Would love to hear your guys' thoughts and theories about the whole idea. Very fun, and probably one of the most convoluted concept in TES.
This podcast was so *DEEP* great job always gentlemen!
25:30 You see and fight one such army in Tribunal's main quest. You go down into the sewers of Mournhold and destroy the mercenary golbin army hired by King Helseth against the Temple. The army is explicitely said to come from Summerset and it is led by two Altmer slavedrivers you can also kill for extra gold.
I ate so many 50 pound blocks of adamantium to keep from being overburdened down there.
i think the Elder Scrolls Universe is the dream you have when the Institute put you in stasis in Fallout 4
Whack
Actually weirdly fits in being how the ultimate entity in elder Scrolls is the Godhead (essentially gnosticism)
lets gooooooooooooooooooo
karthwasten massacre is just a random location chosen by either side of the civil war during the negotiations of season unending, talluis could say we need compensation for the karthwasten massacre
soul trade is probably talking about the ideal masters dealing in souls as a currency in the soul cairn
in racial phylogeny there is also a half giant girl in eso
yakudan chronology is probably the idea that redguards are not natives of this nirn and that in their timeline alduin destroyed the world but before that happened they traveled to our nirn and our timeline.
thank you guys for the video it was a lot of fun
I believe that the concept art for the dwemer centurions in skyrim calls them mini numidium or something
I seriously enjoy you guys very much, always such an amazing podcast. As I say all the time, I look more forward to this other then any podcast. You have made sundays my favourite days.
All you guys are looking awesome. Sound is awesome and equal between you all.. Video is super clear.
Drew I love your library above your head. Is that Canterbury Classics above your head? I have a few of those books including Robert Stevenson 7 stories and the brothers Grimm.
Drew I love how well you just listened and only put in when you thought it was needed/ had something to add
Micheal I really enjoyed how you checked your information so you weren’t mis-quoting. Man that beard is coming out great!
Scott, I feel you set the tone for how the podcast continues going forward is just Vonderbar (I know it’s not spelt right, im trying to say it in phonetics) you just constantly want to explore more
BUT!!!!!! Can we please get the 36 lessons of Vivec!?!! You say this one was long, can’t wait for that one! 🤣
Top of the morning everyone!
It's literally 1120pm but sure =D
@@travgillard6834 lol not in Detroit Michigan usa
I stayd up from 11pm to now I think i might sleep
Every time I see “loading nostalgia” I just know it’s going to be a banger.
R E M A N M O O N C U M V A U L T S
what is that from
I halfway understand this and that scares me.
I.. wha-
Cmon don't leave us hangin. I must know what this means.
Okay, I understand the "Reman" and "Cum" parts. It's when he impregnated a hill on Cyrod. But what does "Moon" and "Vaults" had to do with...
...it's not about spaceships right? I know those existed in TES.
christ you have no idea howmuch i needed this, eversince ive seen this iceberg image few month back i had this weird obsession of finding what every word meant on this chart and it has been driving me fucking bananas, thank you for doing this honestly
i love how when u guys do interrupt each other, its at points where the rest of the interrupted sentence can pretty easily be accurately presumed
and it's always only to continue the conversation
Deep enough for you guys to make it the main thing on your channel. :)
Waiting for that 16 Accords of Madness volume featuring Sheogorath playing a prank on Mehrunes Dagon and Akatosh where he gets them to fight.
10:30 I heard lunar lettuce for a sec there, sounds like a euphemism for that wacky tobacky lol
In the book Lusty Argonian Maid, an Oral Tradition, it states that the tale was originally created by khajiit bard named Tale-Singer, and several other cultures across Tamriel had their own versions.
It's pronounced Reekling, due to Nord Etymology being very similar to real world germanic/slavic etymology, "ie" will make a long-E sound while "ei" makes the long-I sound of pronouncing it like rykling
There is an concept art of a map of Morrowind that marks a city marker on it labeled "Sotha Sil" along the southern border, west of Tear. I do also remember seeing a map of Black Marsh, although this one may be unofficial, that had a small part of Morrowind on it. Marked in the same location that would line up with the concept art, was a marker for a city labeled "Sotha Sil."
There are a few depictions of Kynareth with an ankh. I don't know what it represents in her circles, however.
"Giant are Orcs" is a roundabout way of saying Giants are malacath's people in that they are pariahs. Giants even take over a Malacath Shrine from the Orcs in Malacath's quest in Skyrim.
That's... a really interesting thought. Will have to think on that one, too.
1:36:00 if you activate the painting (i.e. use it) it tells you what you see when you look at the painting, and it goes into some pretty big details. The queen asks if you looked at it, if you say yes, she's pissed, if you say no (even if you lie) she's happy. AFAIK it doesn't really matter either way.
"The Red Dome Templars were psycho-crusaders who drank the blood of Talos to get short-term martial shouting powers. The rest of the Army hated them (and much of the Elder Council wanted them dispersed), which is mainly why they were shoved off to places like Morrowind."
I like to think Heartstones are pieces of the Akulakhan (or cooled chuncks of lava) that was effected by Lorkans heart and that were fired out of Red Mountain upon it's eruption
Fun Fact: Fort Sutch in Oblivion had a silent quest tied along with it where the Imperial legion leads a small force against a nearby oblivion gate. The player can join up and if you follow the direction of the commander fight a few waves of enemies that come from the gate and then are asked to enter and close the gate. Afterward the quest wraps up with the Imperials thanking you and the remaining troops go back and guard the fort.
Damn, Scott is out there stealing all the ladies with those glasses. :P
Weird
Love these long podcasts absolutely kino
The best part about tes is that everyone plays different games at different speeds & levels of completion to the point were you almost create your own version of the game in your head as you go. Playing eso and being able to go to all the historic places and having so much content available is insane. For example The imperial sewers is way different in my head because the version in eso is not like oblivion at all. I can visit the psijic order collect artifacts for their museum or visit my psijic manor. Love your videos they really help flesh out such a amazing game series
Francois Motierre, Amaund's ancestor in Oblivion, also has two versions, interesting considering his quest involves faking his death.
Maybe the two models in Skyrim was referencing the two models in Oblivion then? Super weird lol their family dinners must be wild
Yes, I've been waiting so long for someone to tackle the iceberg.
I think the infinitely large planetoid is a reference to the fact that the aedric plane(t)s are "infinite" planes of the divine taking a spherical (so the planets) shape in the sky for some reason, just as the daedric planes are infinite
Man, even as a HARDCORE Elder Scrolls fan such as myself their is always something to learn and I appreciate that!
I saw videos from half a decade ago, & thought I would have unsubscribed if I hadn't heard your more modern videos. Listening to your videos closer to the present, particularly this one, I'm grateful I was exposed to your videos more recently. You guys are awesome.
One of my favorite episodes so far :D
I like learning about the little references.
The "Alessian Year" is an attempt by Fal Droon to discredit the notion of a Dragon Break, in his book "The Dragon Break Reexamined". Basically, the dates from the Alessian Order don't necessarily add up. The consensus (supported by historical accounts from all factions present at the time) is that the Marukhati Selective attempted to change the nature of Akatosh and caused a dragon break called the "Middle Dawn". Fal Droon insists, with no supporting evidence provided to the player so far, that the discrepancy in timelines is because the Alessian Order didn't measure their years by the Sun or the Stars or the Moons like normal people, but "the length of the long vision-trances undertaken by the High Priestess, which might last anywhere from a few weeks to several months." Given that the Middle Dawn is the only dragon break observed universally (by the fall of eight stars), it's odd that he spends so much effort attempting to debunk it.
It's also amusing that his book, obviously written after the fall of the Septim Empire, appears in Morrowind and Oblivion, times when the Septim Empire was perfectly fine. It seems his very work may have been caught up in a Break. Either that or he has spectacular powers of prophecy.
I came faster than I left Faendal after meeting Lydia.
That’s what she said.
@@7snake7 🤣
Regarding the Shivering Isles door in the Niben, I think Sheogorath or Haskill says that it doesn’t violate the Dragonborn Covenant because there’s no invasion. He’s just allowing people easier access to his realm.
Side note: I find it interesting that the Hero of Kvatch would mantle the Mad God, presumably after doing Knights of the Nine, because Pelinal was batshit insane, too. Is there something about the job of Crusader?
@Ratso Fatso Dude was completely bonkers, what are you talking about?
@Ratso Fatso Hey don’t get me wrong, I completely agree. But when the man straight up massacres them wholesale like Doomguy and tore one Ayleid king’s throat out with his teeth? Guy’s crazy. Might’ve been a divine madness, him possibly being a Shezzarine, but he’s a nutcase.
as a long tim fan i was kinda suprised when Drew was added to fudgemuppet, but now hes honestly my favourite member. alsways has great insights and jokes
underground falmor colonies might be refering to the fact that we are told the forgoten vale is alot alot bigger then what we can explore in skyrim because of collapses and stuff made those parts of the vale unaccessible from the skyrim players point of view if they were referring to uncorrupted falmer it would say snow elves
so, Talos fake god, could refer to the fact that it was the dragon break at the end of Daggerfall that ascended Tiber Septim to the role of Talos.......
I was late for a Valentine's Day date because I was sitting through this. Well done boys
I started watching another channel's ES iceberg, but when he said he wasn't well versed and he may make some mistakes, I hit this recommended Fudgemuppet videos. The true ES lore masters.
CODA. I also do think that Fallout and Elder Scrolls could be easily connected through CHIM / Amaranth. "Creating a new world" is just playing another game, and our own real universe is one such game.
Elder Scrolls characters are unique in that those who achieve CHIM are conscious of the fact that they are video game characters and accept that fact. They have realized the truth of their own Matrix and may even be aware of the world of their creators.
ES lore is a clear case of the creation going beyond the intentions of its creators, both in-lore and in real life. It's no stretch for me to imagine that Daedric worship is a legitimate real-life form of religious practice, as Elder Scrolls cosmology is more metaphysically consistent than the majority of real-world religions.
There is a reference in ESO in a public dungeon, where an instrument has an inscription "From M'aiq to his son, M'aiq"
1:38:24. I believe The yokudan Chronology is a reference to them.being from a previous Kalpa Cycle same as the Left Handed Elves!!! Is just a theory though.
What do you think the Fur Armor in Vvardenfel is made from if not Khajiit?
I dont remember seeing any other fur bearing mammals on that ash blasted island.
56:35 "How are the stars (celestials, constellations, signs) gods?" Well, think of it this way: They are collections of holes from reality into the divine. Individually they may just be holes, but as mortals draw on their power, perceive them as entities, perhaps they give them some sort of real life. Honestly it sounds bonkers crazy and there probably isn't much lore to support this theory, but the constellations, as beings who exist on the border between Mundus and Aetherius sounds REALLY cool.
59:20 I feel like this is alluding to leveling up, meditating on what you've learned is a sort of self-reflection. Or maybe it's got something to do with reflecting spells with an on self spell, but I doubt that.
Edit: I watched for like 5 more seconds and michael made the same dumb joke as me lol
Moths often paired with the moon, the moon gets its light from the sun, moths have compound eyes to view ultraviolet waves. It could go deeper than just compund eyes
44:41. Camelworks did a 3 hour video about the Augur of Dunlain. Where he even finds the character model for this entity we meet. Looks like he's half Hag raven!!! Incredible
Wait, that's a really good point: Why WOULD the moth priests allow "Celia Camoran" (or anyone who is not a moth priest) access to an Elder Scroll? Not only because it is incredibly dangerous, but also because they are very closely guarded and by tradition no one outside of their order is allowed to view them.
And if Celia Camoran is not a real person, I feel like someone would have been able to check that, given the prominence of the Camoran family.
They gloss over collapse of Winterhold here, but the work done I think by Camel, to show the depth of the Auger of Dundain, his face, his forsworn roots, the tributes in the midden, is so comprehensive and is 100% cannon lore shows the surprising depths that are there even in the game files.
The "Wasabi Trade" section made me laugh so hard. Great episode.
He wasn't trying levitation - wizard died due to boost acrobatics spell. Not the same thing
Jesus please work on your grammar
@@Lcgx I know right? Thankfully he edited it
@@123698lol You did notice the original comment was edited, right?
@@Lcgx ?
@@123698lol 🤨🧐
The real bottom of the iceberg:
1) The Dwemer are stuck in a causal time loop, continually teleporting their species back in time to Tamriel when they tap into Lorkhan's heart, just after Lorkhan's was torn asunder. This explains their existence on Tamriel prior to Topal's survey.
2) The Snow Elves didn't kill the Atmorans. They originally befriended them, but the Atmorans were split when they saw the Eye of Magnus. Ysgramor coveted power and slew the other Atmorans before attemption to gaining control of the Eye and before the Snow Elves could rally to the sides of those who stood against Ysgramor. Those Atmorans who were left behind fled to High Rock, eventually being enslaved by the Aldmeri some generations later. There were believed to be men, they called themselved Nordic, so of course they were called Nedic. Eventually, they would become the Bretons. Unfortunately for the Snow Elves, Ysgramor's people won the war in Atmora and he was able to rally them with his deceit and returned with the Companions for "vengeance." It was only then that the Snow Elves fled underground to the Dwemer, who chose to allow them to stay, as long as they could not see the Dwemer secrets (imagine how much more advanced they were if their tonal magic went through two, three, or a hundred cycles of the time loop).
3) The Sleeping Tree isn't a magical tree from a flying continent. It's Harold.
Appreciate the time to comment, where did you see this? Just curious because I've never heard of any of this.
Harold was once human though so scratch that
Michael kirkbride is an admitted gnostic, so it makes sense that lorkhan is similar to the demiurge
With all his texts, it’s very clear he draws heaps of inspiration from Gnosticism. Some of the wildest stuff in elder scrolls is straight up from Buddhism and it’s so interesting to see how he takes those gnostic religions and makes them into something new. Don’t even get me started on Vivec haha
Your video's are everything please keep making more!!!
Is that a picture of the Savior's Hide?
Me 1 second ago: I need to go to be its 1 am and I have school tomorrow
Also me: So an hour and a half aye? not that much.
The temple withholding vampire cure is a reference to how the book series talking about vampires has a fourth novel. The fourth is the only one that is banned and is the one that talks about curing Vampirism in its entirety.
Also the whole point of Legends is that it's a *legend*. The forgotten hero and the titus mede being absent is a literal campfire story without any proof
Karthwasten Massacre was a cut town that was in the lore/maps before the game Skyrim. Little information about it exists outside the peace meeting quote. Implying there was supposed to be more about it ingame with a ruin or survivors to hammer in the Nord nationalist thing being a very ugly thing outside "muh talos worship"
Giant mudcrab also might refer to the one you hunt down during the Kyne's Trials, implying there are more out there. Or the Skar, the giant crustacean that the Redoran carved out and made their HQ in. And in fact brought back from the dead to fight the Argonians during their invasion.
The secret tunnels refer to multiple things, of which you mentioned but also the starting dungeon in Arena. It's just a fan theory about how *many are actually under there. And what the hell did the Ayleids put down there*.
I saw this iceberg and searched it into youtube with the hopes that anyone would cover it as seeing fudgemuppet pop up my instant reaction was "YEEESSSSSSS"
Vault-Tec is the Dwemer. You're welcome
the tunnels under the white gold tower are also sort of mentioned in the oblivion thieves guild as how they get to every part of the city even the palace
I think the Daedric ritual abuse is the idea that the protagonist in the games just runs around becoming the champion of all these princes without repercussions in an effort to fill their "pokedex" of artifacts.
Question about Rorikstead. When you pick up the document that details holds in Skyrim from Dragonsreach, with the Delphine/Farengar conversation, it mentions 'Roriksteading', but it's mentioning a time over a thousand years ago, if I'm not wrong. What's up with that?
How likely is it that Dervenin, Sheagorath's questgiver from Skyrim, is really the adoring fan from Oblivion?
The term Wilderking may come from the German word wunderkind which means wonder boy or child prodigy, and the first Wilderking was a child.
1:04:35 Have you even played Arena? Every temple is covered with ankhs on the inside.
That's the funny thing with game lore such as Elder Scrolls. It goes as deep as you want it to go, it's all just a matter of perspective
To the layman, who plays casually to explore and relax? The world is just a pretty backdrop.
To the loremaster who wants to delve into the deep uncharted stories and figure out the puzzle of the world? It is fathomless
And in the end, both are valid ways of reading the source material
Yeah.
To me when I first played Skyrim, it was just a game in a fantasy world then as I played more and watched more youtube videos I became in love with how deep the lore goes.
Deep thinker right here, folks.
Wayrest Secret painting message: Part of the main quest of Daggerfall, a way for the Agent to discover Daggerfall agents killed King Lysandus