Never would i have guessed to see the demon princes here. Like me personally, i probably would've named 20 other bosses before they would even cross my mind
It’s so crazy how different our playthroughs are, I never found guardian ape to be unreasonably difficult however Midir is definitely been one of my hardest fights in the entire series
Don’t understand how O and S even made this list, every time I fight it’s first try. But somehow midir didn’t make it and I’ve only killed him once by my self.
The top three hardest bosses are Demon of Hatred, Orphan of Kos and Malenia. End of story. shout out to those two shark things in the well though, they're a pain in the ass
i was so surprised to see you only have 1000 subs, from the quality and just overall content of the video i expected you to have so much more, keep it up
Pretty good video. However for the Malenia section there is another way to dodge waterfowl dance up close which I find to be much easier and more consistent than the circle strafe. You can do a running jump away from the first flurry to avoid it, then just roll through the rest. I recommend you check out the video “stop complaining about waterfowl dance” by Loopine if you want to see several examples of the dodge. Good luck with making your next video.
On my first playthrough I unlocked the fire umbrella specifically for the demon then hardly used it. All his fire whip attacks have massive blind spots and if you know where they are you don't even have to dodge, you can just spam attack and parry when he goes for stomp attacks.
The Godskin Duo didn't trouble me at all. However, the Godskin Apostle in the tower in Caelid gave me nightmares. Maybe I was under-leveled when I fought him, but that was a tremendously hard fight.
Great video! I agree with most of these takes, though I definitely would've put Mohg, Dancer, Fire Giant, or even Ludwig ahead of Guardian ape. Nice to see O&S on the list though (It's peak)
Absolutely incredible video I'm new to souls like games I played allot of them but never actually gave them a chance so when I did I platinum my first souls in DS3 now I'm working towards 100% Elden Ring but I hate to say it I'm one of those guys that use summons they are so much fun and make allot of battles so Trivial and easy Mimic Tear is so good and I recently just started using Tich
My personal list #1: Isshin sword Saint #2 Melenia #3 Sister Friede #4 Midir #5 Orphan of Kos #6 Maliketh #7 Nameless King #8 Gael #9 Ludwig #10 Lady Maria
I’d personally take Ludwig off the list and replace him with either Laurence or Demon of Hatred, purely because his second phase is quite a bit easier for me to deal with. Might put Manus on the list as well because you need to fight him with DS1 player speed, he’s a tough mf
Great video! 21:58 it’s right here that yes I do understand why you put malenia with Genichiro with how it feels to beat her I mostly hate her not for the challenge but for the placement of that challenge is literally the end of the game with Genichiro you can theoretically get mad and storm off to the depths/Senpo temple etc with Malenia you literally have only the choice to back track through things you missed or to grind to get good it’s just a frustrating wall with little hand holds to get up it and yes that’s ironic because I love the demon of hatred more than almost any boss is souls besides Ishin himself
Never got to Kos in my dlc playthrough but from how everyone talks about him, I was shocked when I saw him that low. And as far as the waterfowl dance, I don’t hold that against malenia cause I look at it from a sports perspective. Kobe/mj had the unstoppable fadeaway, dirk has the one foot leaner, Kareem had the hook, bron has the staring at the ball 3. It’s her go to move that she has in her bag
@@CosmicEye597 no problem! I really enjoyed your video, so tonight I've been watching more. You're really entertaining and make some great content! Keep up the awesome work!
When i first got to melania she felt more do able than the godskin duo and even bosses like maliketh and mohg, those fights absolutely destroyed me but melania felt like i could beat her with time, the other 3 made me feel hopless getting 2 shot over and over making no progress
If I was forced to gunpoint to make top 10… 10 - Dragon God 9 - Bed of Chaos 8 - Sir Alonne 7 - Nameless King 6 - Laurence 5 - Malenia/Isshin Ashina 4 - Demon Prince/Demon of Hatred 3 - Maliketh 2 - Orphan of Kos 1 - Inner Isshin/Defiled Amygdala
waterfowl dance is the definiative proof that malenia is a sekiro boss in disguise. i garentee that if we could deflect like in sekiro she would not only be a balanced boss but a fun boss to fight. i was just replaying and fighting her and the rest of her moveset is pretty fair its just the waterfowl dance.
I think it is intended that you run away, but it’s a screw that she can go into it right on top of you however, I have been locked on up close and dodge through it. Circling round her is the strat cuz she will go shooting of in the opposite direction if you time your dodge right but I don’t know if that’s abusing the a.I though
idk why, but when i first played through dark souls 1, orinstein and smough took me at least 35 attempts. But when i replayed the game a year later, i beat them third try.
Good ranking. Funnily enough I found Malenia's fight very doable with a simple "sword and shield build". With 30 stamina and a brass shield, I was able to fully block the first flurry of WFD (without any shield AoW). She heals, but it's not much and you can easily out damage that. Utilizing guard counters on her was really helpful, gave alot of riposte opportunities, which easily made up for whatever she heals back. Honestly I think her self-heal is just a psychological thing to build pressure. It's not something that invalidates builds or something, like i thought it would earlier. Also like others said, running and jumping from WFD's first flurry is the best method imo. It even works close range (esp with large wpns). I'm honestly surprised it gets overshadowed by that weird circle strat. Its a shame coz people might get discouraged after seeing that the most common way to handle it is so obtuse and complex.
There's another method besides that circling thing, but as you put it, it requires perfection (the timing). I don't use a joystick so I adapted with keyboard and mouse.
For Malenia and spirit ashes, I have to say that she's one of the worst bosses to summon against. I really don't think she was designed to be fought with spirits, like the Godskin Duo. I think she might have actually been built to counter them. She can heal off of them, her hyperarmor means that you can't just rush her down and stunlock her like you might with other humanoid bosses, her phase transition obliterates any summons, and if that doesn't get them, Valkyrie Phantoms will. There's some summons that geniunely make her harder. With that being said, there's also some that make her easier: Alecto comes to mind, as well as the infamous Mimic Tear (although this one depends on your build, I guess). But those two can basically cheese the entire game for you, so I'm not too surprised. I think that most other summons will probably make her a little easier, but they won't remove the challenge entirely.
Isn't a get perfect issue the same as a get gud issue? But if we aren't being pedantic you can dodge it up close with running away and timing your jump as well as rolling back 3 times if you are light load.
Malenia can be cheesed in so many ways due to elden rings massive build diversity. I beat her my 2nd try my first playthrough with moghs spear and 2nd playthrough i beat her in like 5 trys as a mage. Sekiro gives you no build diversity so you actually have to learn the game mechanics to actually finish the game (you have to actually get good). With that said Isshin was a complete nightmare and demon of hatred is the only boss i have never beaten in the series, his move set is so unpredictable and the fight is like like 20mins long and you get one shot by 1 misstake if you dont have a health pool appropriate for the fight. He is the only boss that actually made me give up.
Yup same mohgs spear I demolished her. I went in with a mimic and mohgs cause of all the hype saying she was so hard and just wrecked her with my mimic. Like just my mimic and her would have been more fair 😆. To me Elden rings hardest bosses were the real early bosses like my hardest fight was the tree sentinel when u walk out in lime grave I spent 2 hours on just him fresh thinking it’s what I was supposed to do.
Ape and Demon feel different not because you don't deflect them (you totally can and should) but because they don't deflect you. Players get used to the "attack until you get deflected" pattern that they don't know how to lay off the R1 without that cue, and they get stomped while spamming away. But they should learn to control themselves and engage these wonderful bosses.
My list: 1. Malenia 2. Orphan 3. Sword Saint Isshin 4. Ludwig 5. Owl father 6. Gael 7. Nameless King 8. Manus 9. Friede 10. Mohg What I love most about the difficulty ranking is how every player had a different experience and had difficulty with completely different bosses based on their playstyle and way of learning the patterns. I have had quite an easy time with Demon of Hatred, Midir and Pontif but man, I don't often see Gael too high in those lists but he kicked my ass... I also think Mohg is quite underrated if you don't use all of the items to counter him. Special shoutout to O&S, Radahn, Guardian Ape and Demon Prince
I think you nailed the top three, but I disagree with some of your points about Malenia. In my opinion, she would not be a joke without Waterfowl Dance and you do not have to alter your build to beat her. Changing up your playstyle to beat a boss is nothing new, as you said with Demon of Hatred which requires the use of the umbrella prosthetic. The Waterfowl Dance can be dodged with any build once you learn the pattern, unless you aren't ready when she goes up... in which case, you can still dodge the majority of the swings. That being said, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on Mohg and his unavoidable 'NIHIL' damage.
Hello thank you for the kind response. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, maybe I was being too harsh on her lol. Anyway, I made a video on the best bosses and mohg was number 10. I cover that extensively on that video, but if you want the TL;DR: He's great, the 3-flask drain may be a bit cheap, but he has a good move set, so prolonging his fight is fine with me.
O&S on a top 10 difficulty list in the year 2024, oof. Nothing pre-Bloodborne has any business cracking a list like this other than MAYBE Manus and Fume Knight. Rest of the list was really good though, even if I don’t totally agree with each pick or placement
Shields make the Malenia fight longer but you wouldn’t be using a shield if your focus is quick fights. By default using a shield implies you’re going to have an endurance fight. Waterfowl isn’t even that difficult to dodge, its issue is that it isn’t visually obvious. Malenia is challenging even without waterfowl, that move just pushes her over the top.
My list: (I haven’t played Sekiro, but I tell myself I will one day) 1. Malenia 2. Midir (MUCH easier on subsequent plays, but took me more tries to beat than any boss ever.) 3. Sir Alonne 4. Orphan of Kos 5. The Fume Knight 6. Laurence 7. Defiled Watchdog (you know the one) 8. Sister Friede 9. Godskin Duo (without bleed) 10. Gael
I don't get the Godskin hate, they are the easiest boss of the end run to me, you just need to be a bit patient at times if the skinny one is being aggressive too. The pillars make it pretty easy to separate them if you weave through them strategically. Watching the footage in the video, it's poor play mainly
I love Malenia, she's been my favorite boss in Elden Ring since my first playthrough (and I play without summons too, she took me over 6 hours initially). Idk, she killed me with a lot of different moves, not just waterfowl. I ended up just shielding the first flurry if she caught me up close, then dodging the second and walking backwards for the third (she doesn't recover much health this way, although stamina management is key or she'll break your guard, which added another layer to the fight). Even if she initiates the move up close, full sprint with a jump can avoid the first flurry 9 times out of 10. I love the idea of an optional super boss who throws all kinds of crazy attacks, regens health and causes rot. I hope the DLC gives us a boss with just as much bullshit. Also, I'm pretty consistent at beating her these days, my least favorite attack now is Aeonian Bloom because it pauses the fight. I agree with the majority of your list though (besides O and S, honestly Mohg, Fume Knight, Laurence, and Radagon/Elden Beast would all be better picks, imo). Defiled Chalice Watchdog or Amygdala should be on the list if those count as well.
the godskin duo are more offensive than malenia if you ask me. malenia may cheat, cancel moves, heal, have insane damage reach AND speed, but she is optional the godskin duo being a mandatory fight and you kill BOTH of them and then just hangout for 15 seconds while they wait for their respawn countdown. i can't help but feel like they were going for an O&S type of fight and completely fumbled it in every way possible. which is a shame because the godskins on their own are very fun to fight
Better designed? That's a good question! Well, I guess since hollow knight is only one game, I will have to go with soulsborne. But HK has an awesome set of bosses (my favorite being Paintmaster Sheo)
As a melee build person. You can dodge waterfowl normally. You have to play around with it but you can absolutely dodge it without cheesing her AI. I think you just need more time to practice dodging it
me personally malenia does have some fair criticism, but i do think some of is still overblown. in my opinion, while it may suck to die from waterfowl dance, i think the intention of its implementation was to force you too not get too aggressive which i think works well for the fight. think about how easy it is to stun lock malenia. i think its a very interesting trait of her to have a counter attack for her own weakness. even if that counter attack is a fucking tactical nuke lmaooo. i feel like most people dont even pay attention to the fact that she is much more likely to do that move if you just mindlessly wailing on her and being too aggressive. you got slow the pace down just a tad bit and bait out more favorable and punishable moves. but i feel like if remember how you remember in the back of your head to be ready to doge this move and get some distance, its really an intriguing combination of mechanics. masterpiece of a fight if you ask me but i understand much of your frustration brother.
Im not gonna lie Demon Prince doesn't really belong on this list, It wasn't ever a problem no matter how many times I run through DS3 and as always Sword Saint Isshin is overrated as hell If we want to talk about a hard fair fight from Sekiro Inner Father is the hardest aside from the demon of hatred obviously
With godskin duo, just sleep pot one and it's actually the easiest fight ever Edit. I did not know about the fire umbrella, that would have been easier than struggling for days lol
..."I wound counter this argument about shield users with Bloodhound Step". That's the problem with die hards veterans. Can you even imagine what overwhelming majority of players did not get the Step during their playthrough? I am 100% sure the majority of Step users got to know about it from the Net, not found it themselves.
It's not fun but it's also not that hard either. Just take your time and use the pillars to your advantage. The apostle is slow af and easy to lead the noble away from
I feel like all the people who rate the ds3 bosses high in difficulty haven’t played it in years.. the bosses are ez no delayed attacks just press roll when they attack bad you will always dodge it. The late game elden ring bosses with no summons or cheesy ashes of war are 100% harder
My personal top 10: Ornstein and Smough 9: Fume Knight 8: Sister Friede 7: Laurence 6: Isshin Ashina 5: Mohg 4: Lady Maria 3: Ludwig 2: Malenia 1: Orphan of Kos
Umbasa! No love for demon’s souls? In 2009 flamelurker and maneaters set the standard for all souls tough bosses. They both deserve to be on the list. Umbasa. You crazy kids can’t forget your elders 😊
eh I didn't find shielding waterfowl added that much time to the fight tbh (and you're only meant to shield the first flurry) or maybe I'm just lucky and she doesn't waterfowl me as often as others
Hello, I hope you see this comment. I would like to just mention about Malenis's difficulty is that if they just made her not heal on hit, or shortened waterfowl a little bit she would still be the hardest boss in the game. I think the gap between her and any boss in ER is so wide that even removing waterfowl she would still be on par with bosses like Maliketh or Godfrey. You may disagree with this and that is okay, but I think Malenia is hard for many reasons. Hell, they could remove waterfowl and make her faster and even more aggro and I think she would be a fair fight. They could even keep her heal on hit affect this way. I just do not think that Malenia is a fair boss and when I finally took her down I was only hit with "I'm glad I'll never have to do that again." Most of the time, a boss gives me a sense of satisfaction but Malenia was more like a feeling of hate and anger. Other than these few notes i do agree with your video and think it was very well made. I would personally move Orphan up a little and replace the Godskin Duo with Godfrey (He was so hard for me).
Hello, thank you for the kind comment :). Malenia has always been an interesting debate within the community! I have seen a lot of different takes on her, and I think they are all fair. I think I was elated just because I managed to finally beat her. I can totally understand the thought process of "Well thank goodness that is over." I guess the most interesting part about her isn't fighting her, but how her discussion has played out online. I am glad I saw your comment, and I thank you for the kind comment :)
The reason why fromsoft duo bosses are hard is because all of them are bad (at least that's what I think). The worst kind of duo boss you may make is throw two autonomic bosses into the arena. No joint skills, no actual duo mechanics, nothing, just two spammy bastards. The only thought you can hold in your head is how to divide those two for not being spammed 24/7 to death. It's just lazy and strictly bad design. The only one good duo boss they made is Lorian and Lothric and that's only because it's not two independent bodies, but one boss split in two with combined mechanics and attacks. That's how all duo bossfights should be imo.
I fkn LOVE when a boss beats my ass and makes me get better. As long as the run back, to the fight, isn’t long asf. Long runs between each attempt make me wanna turn the game off😂
I've only struggle on first encounter with genichiro. after that everything except one boss is hard for me. Owl Father. beside him the difficult part on my playthrough is the multiple tankier samurais on the field lol. I also didn't use any prosthetic tools on bosses as these things being useful against bosses didn't even cross my mind. I didn't know umbrella can block Demon of Hatred, or the firecracker against other bosses. I just use the base default shuriken for the dogs and gunners. that's why I struggled with Owl Father. dude is like you but with pay to win cheats with all these prosthetic tools. But that's also why I think sekiro is the easiest fromsoftware game. they immediately give you right off the bat the very thing that you need. Deflect. that's all you need.
Hey hey hey wait a minute what are you trying to pull? Where’s my AC 6? No love for a game that fromsoft dusted off and said here’s some love and affection
I'd say Mimic Tear, and Olga are an exception. Though, I WOULD advise waiting until phase 2 to summon them.... I did that in a Loki themed playthrough. And... yeah, after struggling for hours. It was both disappointing and cathartic how much easier she was with the Mimic.... Since yeah, I was using status weapons. So, more frost and bleed procs.
Nah I used mimic tear with guts greatsword strength build and she just stayed staggered literally the whole time. I fought her for hours before finally giving in and using the mimic. She barely got off a single waterfowl because she was staggered so much
I have yet to fight Kos, but he does not look as fast as 3rd stage Gascoigne or BSB, and both of those are really easy to parry. Even without summons, you shouldn't have to kill either of the GodSkin Nobles more than twice in that fight, you get plenty of time to finish either one off before the other resurrects.
Melenia waterfowl dance can be canceled by asking her what restaurant she wants to go to for dinner
It can be canceled by throwing a pot full of ice at her.
Hooter...
I couldnt help but notice you forgot Soldier of Godrick and The Mist Noble. Thats totally okay, we can just move everyone down 2 rankings.
But pinwheel......
@@SoulofTheTom3 rankings
I didn't even know Soldier of Godrick existed
Bro solider of God , Rick got me luke 10 h of gp i think he should get his own rank like a GOD rank
He didn't include them because there's no point. We all know where they stand at every tier list.
Never would i have guessed to see the demon princes here. Like me personally, i probably would've named 20 other bosses before they would even cross my mind
It’s so crazy how different our playthroughs are, I never found guardian ape to be unreasonably difficult however Midir is definitely been one of my hardest fights in the entire series
With guardian ape you can just spam the fuck out of empowered mortal draw and destroy him
@@ravager7497 I didn’t have mortal blade when I did my first playthrough when I got to GA
@@jonmann4980 still you can cheese him with firecracker hit n run
Don’t understand how O and S even made this list, every time I fight it’s first try. But somehow midir didn’t make it and I’ve only killed him once by my self.
The top three hardest bosses are Demon of Hatred, Orphan of Kos and Malenia. End of story.
shout out to those two shark things in the well though, they're a pain in the ass
Malenia?💀
Isshin the Sword Saint on Demon Bell + Charmless run is harder than all three of those.
Orphan is not very hard, I beat on new game plus rushing to dlc with minimal effort yall overrated it so hard
I'd say that Lawrence should go on this list too, he's got one-shot potential on NG+ and the AOEs are really annoying
Ngl, Demon of Hatred really isn’t that bad.
i was so surprised to see you only have 1000 subs, from the quality and just overall content of the video i expected you to have so much more, keep it up
Such a kind comment! Thank you :)
“I hope Shadow Of Erdtree takes at least one spot” oh buddy it’s half the damn list now
The final boss is cooking me lol
Pretty good video. However for the Malenia section there is another way to dodge waterfowl dance up close which I find to be much easier and more consistent than the circle strafe. You can do a running jump away from the first flurry to avoid it, then just roll through the rest. I recommend you check out the video “stop complaining about waterfowl dance” by Loopine if you want to see several examples of the dodge.
Good luck with making your next video.
perfect list good feedbacks keep the good work
Thank you :)
On my first playthrough I unlocked the fire umbrella specifically for the demon then hardly used it. All his fire whip attacks have massive blind spots and if you know where they are you don't even have to dodge, you can just spam attack and parry when he goes for stomp attacks.
The Godskin Duo didn't trouble me at all. However, the Godskin Apostle in the tower in Caelid gave me nightmares. Maybe I was under-leveled when I fought him, but that was a tremendously hard fight.
Same i also find him harder then the godskin duo i dont know why?
Congrats on 1000 subscribers, also cool video 👍
Thank you so much for the kind words! The milestone means a lot to me :)
Nice video!!
Thank you so much :)
Owl Father was the hardest fight for me on Sekiro first play through. I had so much trouble learning his moves
Nice list! Complitely identical to mine
Remember everyone, difficulty is subjective. That is all
I was expecting the Nameless King, but fair enough, the list is pretty good
Great video! I agree with most of these takes, though I definitely would've put Mohg, Dancer, Fire Giant, or even Ludwig ahead of Guardian ape. Nice to see O&S on the list though (It's peak)
Absolutely incredible video I'm new to souls like games I played allot of them but never actually gave them a chance so when I did I platinum my first souls in DS3 now I'm working towards 100% Elden Ring but I hate to say it I'm one of those guys that use summons they are so much fun and make allot of battles so Trivial and easy Mimic Tear is so good and I recently just started using Tich
My personal list
#1: Isshin sword Saint
#2 Melenia
#3 Sister Friede
#4 Midir
#5 Orphan of Kos
#6 Maliketh
#7 Nameless King
#8 Gael
#9 Ludwig
#10 Lady Maria
I’d personally take Ludwig off the list and replace him with either Laurence or Demon of Hatred, purely because his second phase is quite a bit easier for me to deal with. Might put Manus on the list as well because you need to fight him with DS1 player speed, he’s a tough mf
@@willnovak4173 I would replace Ludwig with Manus tbh
Orphan of kos at 9 was like a kick to the face then getting my face stomped in
Great video! 21:58 it’s right here that yes I do understand why you put malenia with Genichiro with how it feels to beat her I mostly hate her not for the challenge but for the placement of that challenge is literally the end of the game with Genichiro you can theoretically get mad and storm off to the depths/Senpo temple etc with Malenia you literally have only the choice to back track through things you missed or to grind to get good it’s just a frustrating wall with little hand holds to get up it and yes that’s ironic because I love the demon of hatred more than almost any boss is souls besides Ishin himself
I think the more I kill demon of hatred, the more I understand and love him. Thank you for the kind comment :)
Never got to Kos in my dlc playthrough but from how everyone talks about him, I was shocked when I saw him that low. And as far as the waterfowl dance, I don’t hold that against malenia cause I look at it from a sports perspective. Kobe/mj had the unstoppable fadeaway, dirk has the one foot leaner, Kareem had the hook, bron has the staring at the ball 3. It’s her go to move that she has in her bag
I hear lies of P music!!!!! God I love that game. Also great video dude
I think you're the only person who caught onto that :). Lies of P is great, love that game. Thank you for the kind words
@@CosmicEye597 no problem! I really enjoyed your video, so tonight I've been watching more. You're really entertaining and make some great content! Keep up the awesome work!
@@Kaleb._ Thank you so much :)
good thing to know my next boss is the 6th hardest in the entire series, i can’t wait
When i first got to melania she felt more do able than the godskin duo and even bosses like maliketh and mohg, those fights absolutely destroyed me but melania felt like i could beat her with time, the other 3 made me feel hopless getting 2 shot over and over making no progress
Use the suzaku lotus umbrella for the fireworks of owl , also his verical owl is a projectile so you can parry it ( jump and parry it in the air ) .
If I was forced to gunpoint to make top 10…
10 - Dragon God
9 - Bed of Chaos
8 - Sir Alonne
7 - Nameless King
6 - Laurence
5 - Malenia/Isshin Ashina
4 - Demon Prince/Demon of Hatred
3 - Maliketh
2 - Orphan of Kos
1 - Inner Isshin/Defiled Amygdala
You can deflect most of demon of hatred’s attacks. I think he definitely plays like a Sekiro boss, he’s just more punishing if you screw up.
waterfowl dance is the definiative proof that malenia is a sekiro boss in disguise. i garentee that if we could deflect like in sekiro she would not only be a balanced boss but a fun boss to fight. i was just replaying and fighting her and the rest of her moveset is pretty fair its just the waterfowl dance.
I wonder what Fromsoftware thought was the way to deal with Waterfowl for melee users. Abusing her AI doesn't seem like the way it was intended
They weren't.
I think it is intended that you run away, but it’s a screw that she can go into it right on top of you however, I have been locked on up close and dodge through it. Circling round her is the strat cuz she will go shooting of in the opposite direction if you time your dodge right but I don’t know if that’s abusing the a.I though
That's exactly why people hate that move. Abusing the AI is something speedrunners do, not average players.
You can dodge waterfowl I hope you know that lol
@@Maleniabom Point blank without using the exploit ? You can't. Try again, buddy.
idk why, but when i first played through dark souls 1, orinstein and smough took me at least 35 attempts. But when i replayed the game a year later, i beat them third try.
Good ranking. Funnily enough I found Malenia's fight very doable with a simple "sword and shield build". With 30 stamina and a brass shield, I was able to fully block the first flurry of WFD (without any shield AoW). She heals, but it's not much and you can easily out damage that. Utilizing guard counters on her was really helpful, gave alot of riposte opportunities, which easily made up for whatever she heals back. Honestly I think her self-heal is just a psychological thing to build pressure. It's not something that invalidates builds or something, like i thought it would earlier.
Also like others said, running and jumping from WFD's first flurry is the best method imo. It even works close range (esp with large wpns). I'm honestly surprised it gets overshadowed by that weird circle strat. Its a shame coz people might get discouraged after seeing that the most common way to handle it is so obtuse and complex.
There's another method besides that circling thing, but as you put it, it requires perfection (the timing). I don't use a joystick so I adapted with keyboard and mouse.
Guardian Ape is pretty telegraphed I was surprised to see him here
how can you put ornstein and smough lower in the list than orphan?
For Malenia and spirit ashes, I have to say that she's one of the worst bosses to summon against. I really don't think she was designed to be fought with spirits, like the Godskin Duo. I think she might have actually been built to counter them. She can heal off of them, her hyperarmor means that you can't just rush her down and stunlock her like you might with other humanoid bosses, her phase transition obliterates any summons, and if that doesn't get them, Valkyrie Phantoms will. There's some summons that geniunely make her harder. With that being said, there's also some that make her easier: Alecto comes to mind, as well as the infamous Mimic Tear (although this one depends on your build, I guess). But those two can basically cheese the entire game for you, so I'm not too surprised. I think that most other summons will probably make her a little easier, but they won't remove the challenge entirely.
Isn't a get perfect issue the same as a get gud issue? But if we aren't being pedantic you can dodge it up close with running away and timing your jump as well as rolling back 3 times if you are light load.
Malenia can be cheesed in so many ways due to elden rings massive build diversity. I beat her my 2nd try my first playthrough with moghs spear and 2nd playthrough i beat her in like 5 trys as a mage. Sekiro gives you no build diversity so you actually have to learn the game mechanics to actually finish the game (you have to actually get good). With that said Isshin was a complete nightmare and demon of hatred is the only boss i have never beaten in the series, his move set is so unpredictable and the fight is like like 20mins long and you get one shot by 1 misstake if you dont have a health pool appropriate for the fight. He is the only boss that actually made me give up.
Yup same mohgs spear
I demolished her.
I went in with a mimic and mohgs cause of all the hype saying she was so hard and just wrecked her with my mimic.
Like just my mimic and her would have been more fair 😆. To me Elden rings hardest bosses were the real early bosses like my hardest fight was the tree sentinel when u walk out in lime grave I spent 2 hours on just him fresh thinking it’s what I was supposed to do.
I love the godskin duo :(
I agree with most of what you said except when I think of Malenia I think of Waterfowl AND and Clones
The clones are harder to dodge than the dance
Ape and Demon feel different not because you don't deflect them (you totally can and should) but because they don't deflect you. Players get used to the "attack until you get deflected" pattern that they don't know how to lay off the R1 without that cue, and they get stomped while spamming away. But they should learn to control themselves and engage these wonderful bosses.
My list:
1. Malenia
2. Orphan
3. Sword Saint Isshin
4. Ludwig
5. Owl father
6. Gael
7. Nameless King
8. Manus
9. Friede
10. Mohg
What I love most about the difficulty ranking is how every player had a different experience and had difficulty with completely different bosses based on their playstyle and way of learning the patterns. I have had quite an easy time with Demon of Hatred, Midir and Pontif but man, I don't often see Gael too high in those lists but he kicked my ass... I also think Mohg is quite underrated if you don't use all of the items to counter him. Special shoutout to O&S, Radahn, Guardian Ape and Demon Prince
I think you nailed the top three, but I disagree with some of your points about Malenia. In my opinion, she would not be a joke without Waterfowl Dance and you do not have to alter your build to beat her. Changing up your playstyle to beat a boss is nothing new, as you said with Demon of Hatred which requires the use of the umbrella prosthetic. The Waterfowl Dance can be dodged with any build once you learn the pattern, unless you aren't ready when she goes up... in which case, you can still dodge the majority of the swings.
That being said, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on Mohg and his unavoidable 'NIHIL' damage.
Hello thank you for the kind response. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, maybe I was being too harsh on her lol. Anyway, I made a video on the best bosses and mohg was number 10. I cover that extensively on that video, but if you want the TL;DR: He's great, the 3-flask drain may be a bit cheap, but he has a good move set, so prolonging his fight is fine with me.
O&S on a top 10 difficulty list in the year 2024, oof. Nothing pre-Bloodborne has any business cracking a list like this other than MAYBE Manus and Fume Knight. Rest of the list was really good though, even if I don’t totally agree with each pick or placement
what is your thoughts on the Artorias bossfight
it's good
Shields make the Malenia fight longer but you wouldn’t be using a shield if your focus is quick fights. By default using a shield implies you’re going to have an endurance fight. Waterfowl isn’t even that difficult to dodge, its issue is that it isn’t visually obvious. Malenia is challenging even without waterfowl, that move just pushes her over the top.
Damn the demon princes are an s tier boss for me, but i never found them hard. Surprissd theyre here
My list: (I haven’t played Sekiro, but I tell myself I will one day)
1. Malenia
2. Midir (MUCH easier on subsequent plays, but took me more tries to beat than any boss ever.)
3. Sir Alonne
4. Orphan of Kos
5. The Fume Knight
6. Laurence
7. Defiled Watchdog (you know the one)
8. Sister Friede
9. Godskin Duo (without bleed)
10. Gael
I don't get the Godskin hate, they are the easiest boss of the end run to me, you just need to be a bit patient at times if the skinny one is being aggressive too. The pillars make it pretty easy to separate them if you weave through them strategically.
Watching the footage in the video, it's poor play mainly
I love Malenia, she's been my favorite boss in Elden Ring since my first playthrough (and I play without summons too, she took me over 6 hours initially). Idk, she killed me with a lot of different moves, not just waterfowl. I ended up just shielding the first flurry if she caught me up close, then dodging the second and walking backwards for the third (she doesn't recover much health this way, although stamina management is key or she'll break your guard, which added another layer to the fight). Even if she initiates the move up close, full sprint with a jump can avoid the first flurry 9 times out of 10.
I love the idea of an optional super boss who throws all kinds of crazy attacks, regens health and causes rot. I hope the DLC gives us a boss with just as much bullshit. Also, I'm pretty consistent at beating her these days, my least favorite attack now is Aeonian Bloom because it pauses the fight.
I agree with the majority of your list though (besides O and S, honestly Mohg, Fume Knight, Laurence, and Radagon/Elden Beast would all be better picks, imo). Defiled Chalice Watchdog or Amygdala should be on the list if those count as well.
I'm hoping for the first true 3 phase boss hp bar in the dlc as the super boss
the godskin duo are more offensive than malenia if you ask me. malenia may cheat, cancel moves, heal, have insane damage reach AND speed, but she is optional
the godskin duo being a mandatory fight and you kill BOTH of them and then just hangout for 15 seconds while they wait for their respawn countdown. i can't help but feel like they were going for an O&S type of fight and completely fumbled it in every way possible. which is a shame because the godskins on their own are very fun to fight
Tbh WFD for Melinia isnt as bad as i used to think. I also believe that she has one of the best movesets ever made
Do you find Soulsborne bosses or Hollow knight bosses to be better designed?
Better designed? That's a good question! Well, I guess since hollow knight is only one game, I will have to go with soulsborne. But HK has an awesome set of bosses (my favorite being Paintmaster Sheo)
Soulsborne bosses have the best designs of any bosses in the whole gaming industry
I honestly found Maliketh way harder than malenia, he took me about twice the amount of times (although I was slightly higher level for malenia)
As a melee build person. You can dodge waterfowl normally. You have to play around with it but you can absolutely dodge it without cheesing her AI. I think you just need more time to practice dodging it
Still doesnt change the fact that its bullshit and its not even fun to learn it
I beat demon hatred without the prosthetic umbrella or the whistle, one of my greater accomplishments
Well done! That was how I beat him my first time, too. I think he's a really well made boss :)
Twin demons is fromsoft best duo fight because there is no reliance on pillars. Really enhances the fight for me.
Those two are definitely in my top 5 favorite bosses
@@CosmicEye597 yeah ds3 has most of my favourites
1. Malenia
2. Orphan of Kos
3. Maliketh
4. Defiled Amygdala
5. Defiled Watchdog
6. Blackflame Friede
7. Full Grown Fallingstar Beast
8. Mohg
9. Ludwig
10. Nameless King
Full grown fallingstar beast is literally one of the easiest fights ever even solo
Nice use of Hollow Knight music (Silksong is almost here right)?
I swear i've been waiting for that game for an eternity now. I want Silksong so freaking bad hahah. Thank you for the comments!
me personally malenia does have some fair criticism, but i do think some of is still overblown. in my opinion, while it may suck to die from waterfowl dance, i think the intention of its implementation was to force you too not get too aggressive which i think works well for the fight. think about how easy it is to stun lock malenia. i think its a very interesting trait of her to have a counter attack for her own weakness. even if that counter attack is a fucking tactical nuke lmaooo. i feel like most people dont even pay attention to the fact that she is much more likely to do that move if you just mindlessly wailing on her and being too aggressive. you got slow the pace down just a tad bit and bait out more favorable and punishable moves. but i feel like if remember how you remember in the back of your head to be ready to doge this move and get some distance, its really an intriguing combination of mechanics. masterpiece of a fight if you ask me but i understand much of your frustration brother.
Your beating her up until she decides “alright enough and just waterfowls all over you”
Im not gonna lie Demon Prince doesn't really belong on this list, It wasn't ever a problem no matter how many times I run through DS3 and as always Sword Saint Isshin is overrated as hell If we want to talk about a hard fair fight from Sekiro Inner Father is the hardest aside from the demon of hatred obviously
Could see someone reasonably ordering these in any sequence but Demon Price I can’t get behind belonging here. 3rd toughest fight in its own DLC.
malenias waterfowl dance is probably one of the easiest moves to dodge her clone attack is easily harder
With godskin duo, just sleep pot one and it's actually the easiest fight ever
Edit. I did not know about the fire umbrella, that would have been easier than struggling for days lol
Forgetting Covetous Demon is something that cant be forgiven, sorry man
i agree with what you said about malenia for a first play through, but on repeat runs she is one of the best parts of the game
..."I wound counter this argument about shield users with Bloodhound Step".
That's the problem with die hards veterans.
Can you even imagine what overwhelming majority of players did not get the Step during their playthrough? I am 100% sure the majority of Step users got to know about it from the Net, not found it themselves.
Slave Knight Gael, Malenia, and Sword Saint Isshin for me
I would have bet $1M that there was no way guardian ape was making this list
Double it and give it to the next person
Why you keep calling him Orn, you don't know him like that man
This made me laugh
hot take: godskin duo is a pretty fun boss
That's really spicy one🥵
Don't burn your fingers on that hot take
It's not fun but it's also not that hard either. Just take your time and use the pillars to your advantage. The apostle is slow af and easy to lead the noble away from
@@RadioactiveDinosaurplus sleeping pots
Don't think they're fun but they're not that hard imo
I feel like all the people who rate the ds3 bosses high in difficulty haven’t played it in years.. the bosses are ez no delayed attacks just press roll when they attack bad you will always dodge it. The late game elden ring bosses with no summons or cheesy ashes of war are 100% harder
I love the fact that melania whould just be a weaker genichiro in sekiro she whould be one of the easier bosses with sekiro mechanics
My personal top
10: Ornstein and Smough
9: Fume Knight
8: Sister Friede
7: Laurence
6: Isshin Ashina
5: Mohg
4: Lady Maria
3: Ludwig
2: Malenia
1: Orphan of Kos
after elden ring dlc I will finally tackle my last souls game, sekiro !!!
Be ready to parry
@@kitchensarehot8769 me who never parries… 🙃
Umbasa! No love for demon’s souls? In 2009 flamelurker and maneaters set the standard for all souls tough bosses. They both deserve to be on the list. Umbasa. You crazy kids can’t forget your elders 😊
Demon souls just isnt very good compared to the rest of the franchise and its also the easiest
Just finished ghost of tsushima on lethal difficulty. Its pretty hard especially at the start where you dont have much health.
easy game
@@suave605 have you tried lethal? Its pretty hard. Enemies kill you in 1or 2 hits
I think the valiant gargoyles are a lot more difficult and unfair than godskin duo
Godskin duo ?! Have you heard of sleep pots ?
The only boss I have honestly struggled with was the duo fight on demon souls, the two beasts ( forgot the name)
Demon of hatred is Laurence...Finkle is Einhorn!
eh I didn't find shielding waterfowl added that much time to the fight tbh (and you're only meant to shield the first flurry)
or maybe I'm just lucky and she doesn't waterfowl me as often as others
After beating both games, i can say that owl is WAYYYYYY harder than o&s
Aniway , demon of hatred should be number 1 , since you can't cheese him like you can do malenia with magic and ashes .
Hello, I hope you see this comment. I would like to just mention about Malenis's difficulty is that if they just made her not heal on hit, or shortened waterfowl a little bit she would still be the hardest boss in the game. I think the gap between her and any boss in ER is so wide that even removing waterfowl she would still be on par with bosses like Maliketh or Godfrey. You may disagree with this and that is okay, but I think Malenia is hard for many reasons. Hell, they could remove waterfowl and make her faster and even more aggro and I think she would be a fair fight. They could even keep her heal on hit affect this way. I just do not think that Malenia is a fair boss and when I finally took her down I was only hit with "I'm glad I'll never have to do that again." Most of the time, a boss gives me a sense of satisfaction but Malenia was more like a feeling of hate and anger. Other than these few notes i do agree with your video and think it was very well made. I would personally move Orphan up a little and replace the Godskin Duo with Godfrey (He was so hard for me).
Hello, thank you for the kind comment :). Malenia has always been an interesting debate within the community! I have seen a lot of different takes on her, and I think they are all fair. I think I was elated just because I managed to finally beat her. I can totally understand the thought process of "Well thank goodness that is over." I guess the most interesting part about her isn't fighting her, but how her discussion has played out online.
I am glad I saw your comment, and I thank you for the kind comment :)
Nah its very easy to dodge all of her attacks except waterfowl and that thing in phase 2 where a bunch of clones try to stab you
i swear if i see a single sekiro boss on this list other than demon
u saw trailer dropped 😫😫😫 insanity
Maliketh not being above Godskin Duo is a crime imo
The reason why fromsoft duo bosses are hard is because all of them are bad (at least that's what I think). The worst kind of duo boss you may make is throw two autonomic bosses into the arena. No joint skills, no actual duo mechanics, nothing, just two spammy bastards. The only thought you can hold in your head is how to divide those two for not being spammed 24/7 to death. It's just lazy and strictly bad design.
The only one good duo boss they made is Lorian and Lothric and that's only because it's not two independent bodies, but one boss split in two with combined mechanics and attacks. That's how all duo bossfights should be imo.
Pre Nerf Radahn would have been up there..
Yall glaze the fuck out of malenia I beat her in less than 10 attempts and Elden Ring was my first souls game
I fkn LOVE when a boss beats my ass and makes me get better. As long as the run back, to the fight, isn’t long asf. Long runs between each attempt make me wanna turn the game off😂
Some of those dark souls 2 runbacks... 💀
I've only struggle on first encounter with genichiro. after that everything except one boss is hard for me. Owl Father. beside him the difficult part on my playthrough is the multiple tankier samurais on the field lol. I also didn't use any prosthetic tools on bosses as these things being useful against bosses didn't even cross my mind. I didn't know umbrella can block Demon of Hatred, or the firecracker against other bosses. I just use the base default shuriken for the dogs and gunners. that's why I struggled with Owl Father. dude is like you but with pay to win cheats with all these prosthetic tools. But that's also why I think sekiro is the easiest fromsoftware game. they immediately give you right off the bat the very thing that you need. Deflect. that's all you need.
Hey hey hey wait a minute what are you trying to pull? Where’s my AC 6? No love for a game that fromsoft dusted off and said here’s some love and affection
I’m just joking though great video!
Malenia with summons can only get worse, because she heals of every hit and almost none of them even try to dodge her.
I'd say Mimic Tear, and Olga are an exception.
Though, I WOULD advise waiting until phase 2 to summon them.... I did that in a Loki themed playthrough. And... yeah, after struggling for hours. It was both disappointing and cathartic how much easier she was with the Mimic....
Since yeah, I was using status weapons. So, more frost and bleed procs.
@@DataDrain02 i was thinking the same thing
Nah I used mimic tear with guts greatsword strength build and she just stayed staggered literally the whole time. I fought her for hours before finally giving in and using the mimic. She barely got off a single waterfowl because she was staggered so much
I recommend black knife tiche
@@RadioactiveDinosaur yes if you looked, i agreed with a person who said Mimic Tear is an exception.
I have yet to fight Kos, but he does not look as fast as 3rd stage Gascoigne or BSB, and both of those are really easy to parry. Even without summons, you shouldn't have to kill either of the GodSkin Nobles more than twice in that fight, you get plenty of time to finish either one off before the other resurrects.
i havent played sekiro, but for me the top 3 would be melania, orphan, and either laurence or maliketh
Demon princes over Gael is a crime.
No nameless or manus is crazy