I feel Daemon's vision destroyed the arc they were trying to build for him this whole season. He only decided to submit to Rhaenyra after that vision. It felt like his arch was building up to that anyway, he didn't need the vision to make his mind up. Also it makes it seem like the future is set in stone and nothing can be changed.
I enjoy HotD for what it is and seems a generally well made series. And not that i disliked this season but certainly disappointed with the finale and this season overall. The amount of lore changes this season were quite staggering , any adaptation will have some and certain ones like the Vermithor / Silverwing bonding attempts situation i think worked well for a visual medium and to avoid repetitiveness. But many lore changes just seemed very avoidable , unnecessary and often didn't work well imo. S1 seemed much more loyal to the lore than S2 ; S2 the lore changes were quite constant , seemingly every episode. Also, i've found many of the characters somewhat unrecognizable to their textual versions - Rhaenyra , Alicent , Daemon , Corlys , Rhaenys , Alyn among others. Its either HotD does not fully understand some of these characters from the text or intentionally veered away from the source material (seemingly much more than S1). And the finale considering we will likely not see HotD S3 for another 18-24 months should have left us off with something more memorable. It felt like another setup / buildup episode instead of a proper finale. And that could be a criticism of the season overall , outside of a few big beats even with quite long episodes was not much narrative progression (unlike S1) and not many super memorable moments . And i agree with what was said in this vid the shortened season and some of the general choices seems some connective tissue was omitted and we were left have to just make certain assumptions. Even with the shortened season not sure HotD used the allotted screen-time as effectively or efficiently as they could have done.
The two-eyed Bloodraven was probably a creative decision, to not confuse the regular tv show audience (non-book readers) and mistake him with Aemond somehow.
Always love hearing both of you discuss the show (and the books within the review of the show). I hope you decide to do at least a couple more videos before Knight of the Seven Kingdoms! Thanks for the review!
Great review as always! The writers strike and the demand from the powers that be that Condal reduce the season by 2 episodes seems have a done a number on the quality of this season. Hope next season is less confusing and all over the place.
Would really love a season overview from you guys, maybe with a bit more discussion on what you liked and disliked, what you thought of the writing for certain characters and their motivations (Daemon and Alicent, in particular), your thoughts on the future of the show and so on. Personally I thought the writing really declined in quality compared with Season 1. The logic of the story, world, and characters is often extremely wonky. I feel like the writers don't quite "get it", so to speak.
I have read just about everything Jack Vance wrote, I started reading his books knowing how high George hold him in his esteem There is the Lyonesse trilogy which contains a couple of episodes that I think were of inspiration to George writing ASOIAF: there is a character involved in a political scheme very similar to what Tyrion does in ACOK when he discovers Pycelle is the mole betraying his secrets and giving up informations to Cersei I found also other similarities here and there Sometimes when I read Jack Vance's stories, something comes up, that it makes me think of ASOIAF I can understand how Jack Vance is very important to George by reading both authors, there are many homages, I think, George placed here and there throughout in the ASOIAF cycle. I find real love and admiration, from George's part! I think a real field of study could be opened, if someone wanted to write and essay, or publish a podcast, on regards to this topic Thank you so much, as always, for your super knowledgeable insights; I don't ever miss any of your episodes!
love you guys. Glad to see you guys are still doing input on HOTD. You guys make the show better, like gravy on fried chicken. Thank you, you two. I wish i could hang out with you two & listen to your rants. Hi from Los Angeles
I really hope this season going from 10 to 8 episodes is what caused most of the quality issues, but I'm nonetheless worried about how much the writing quality has dropped compared to last season on multiple occasions. Alicent's visit to Dragonstone was one of the worst offenders and it felt like a scene from later GoT seasons.
I was fan of Baela in the book. And Nettles was a very interesting character, the mystery of her relationship with Daemon too. If a character had to be cut, it was Rhaena.
I think they have combined Rheana and Nettles. So the stuff with Daemon and Nettles in the book will be done with Rheana (to make it clear its a father/daughter bond). The conflict with Rhaenyra will be because Rheana left the children to go find Sherpstealer.
45:00. What Jeyne Arryn should have told Rhaena when asked about the dragon should have been along the lines of, "yes, a dragon has been seen recently here in the Vale. And as it happens it arrived shortly after 4 Targaryens came here to visit". Just so it's not that Sheepstealer decided to relocate to a new lair, but has decided there is a potential rider here that has it's attention.
I was very confused by the Rhaena scenes. Was she turned out by Jeyne in ep 7? If so, why? Does Jeyne simply not want to feed and house them? Where are Rhaena and her young relatives then meant to go, travelling on foot no less? And why did no one notice her wandering off the road? It has now presumably been days of her being lost... What was your interpretation?
Was expecting the season to be better than it was. Some episodes were good but overall it was underwhelming. It looks like they're saving things for next season. So season 3 will be the one to truly shine. As for non readers, they don't know what's to come so some might have lower expectations as they don't know what's to come next season. They probably won't be as excited to have to wait another 2 years. I have been re-reading ASOIAF again since the show came out. It's not the primary book i am reading so i am taking things slowly. I finished the 2nd Catelyn chapter. It's been years since i last read the books and i do want to refresh my memory. If The Winds of Winter ever comes out, then the reread will keep things fresh in my mind.
I don't know why they are stretching this out. I thought for sure the season was ending with Rhaenyra taking Kings Landing and after this episode there's still no reason why they couldn't have done that.
My question is, what are the writers will do with viserys now ? He is so young for his book storyline, and we won't go into the regency period for his return. 1) Maybe they'll give him rhaena's storyline, and he hatches morning and becomes its rider, although he wasn't a dragonrider in the books. 2) Maybe tyland and lohar will take him from the gullet because whoever viserys ends up with, he must know that that's rhaenyra and Daemon's son. Otherwise, no way 2 year old viserys will remember his parents and alyn doesn't know or ever seen him before, so he will never be the one who brings him back. What do you think of that, I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts???
@35:30 I think it that even though he is in the tree, this a rather young Bloodraven. He is certainly does not look to be in his 70s as he should be. So it could be that he has two eyes because it's him before the first blackfyre rebellion.
This doesn't really concern ep. 8 that much but I wanted to hear your opinion on this.... If I was Alicent at the end of ep 3, I would have made a proposal to Rhaenyra, kill Daemon as retribution for jaehaerys and marry Aegon, they can rule together and their child will inherit the throne, if they don't have children Jaehaera will marry aegon the younger. This would also solve the problem of Rhaenyras bastards, as it can be marketed as a compromise solution to spare the realm more bloodshed. Also, im sure the Hightowers could convince the Faith to accept Aegons polygamy. What do you think of this proposal? I think it's pretty reasonable considering the risk Rhaenyras family is at, should the war continue, it also keeps everyone happy except the Velaryons, but they don't matter as much in my opinion.
I think Rhaenyra will blame Rhaena for going after the dragon instead of staying with Joffrey and Aegon and viserys, and their deaths. And maybe will ask daemon to kill her idk how else can they bring all together
Daemons vision was quite poor and overly obvious fan service. Also, found it quite ridiculous how alicent could quite simply slip through a blockade, or even get out of kings landing after aemond demanded every ship be inspected.
No, not the intention! The question mark was referring to our suggestion at the end that we may do one more video overviewing the whole season, not sure. We are absolutely continuing. We're frustrated at times with some of the decisions that we can't wrap our heads around, but there's enough good there that we'll keep watching. At least so far, who knows what season 3 will bring!
I feel Daemon's vision destroyed the arc they were trying to build for him this whole season. He only decided to submit to Rhaenyra after that vision. It felt like his arch was building up to that anyway, he didn't need the vision to make his mind up. Also it makes it seem like the future is set in stone and nothing can be changed.
Which is also funny considering how firmly Georges believes in free will.
''Then stop it, Sandy. Change it''. - The Armageddon Rag
I enjoy HotD for what it is and seems a generally well made series. And not that i disliked this season but certainly disappointed with the finale and this season overall. The amount of lore changes this season were quite staggering , any adaptation will have some and certain ones like the Vermithor / Silverwing bonding attempts situation i think worked well for a visual medium and to avoid repetitiveness. But many lore changes just seemed very avoidable , unnecessary and often didn't work well imo. S1 seemed much more loyal to the lore than S2 ; S2 the lore changes were quite constant , seemingly every episode. Also, i've found many of the characters somewhat unrecognizable to their textual versions - Rhaenyra , Alicent , Daemon , Corlys , Rhaenys , Alyn among others. Its either HotD does not fully understand some of these characters from the text or intentionally veered away from the source material (seemingly much more than S1).
And the finale considering we will likely not see HotD S3 for another 18-24 months should have left us off with something more memorable. It felt like another setup / buildup episode instead of a proper finale. And that could be a criticism of the season overall , outside of a few big beats even with quite long episodes was not much narrative progression (unlike S1) and not many super memorable moments . And i agree with what was said in this vid the shortened season and some of the general choices seems some connective tissue was omitted and we were left have to just make certain assumptions. Even with the shortened season not sure HotD used the allotted screen-time as effectively or efficiently as they could have done.
The two-eyed Bloodraven was probably a creative decision, to not confuse the regular tv show audience (non-book readers) and mistake him with Aemond somehow.
Always love hearing both of you discuss the show (and the books within the review of the show). I hope you decide to do at least a couple more videos before Knight of the Seven Kingdoms! Thanks for the review!
Why didn't Helaena's voice tell Daemon that he killed her son?
Great review as always! The writers strike and the demand from the powers that be that Condal reduce the season by 2 episodes seems have a done a number on the quality of this season. Hope next season is less confusing and all over the place.
It was still pretty good; I don’t blame Condal and his team for it being a little rough around the edges
Would really love a season overview from you guys, maybe with a bit more discussion on what you liked and disliked, what you thought of the writing for certain characters and their motivations (Daemon and Alicent, in particular), your thoughts on the future of the show and so on. Personally I thought the writing really declined in quality compared with Season 1. The logic of the story, world, and characters is often extremely wonky. I feel like the writers don't quite "get it", so to speak.
I have read just about everything Jack Vance wrote, I started reading his books knowing how high George hold him in his esteem
There is the Lyonesse trilogy which contains a couple of episodes that I think were of inspiration to George writing ASOIAF: there is a character involved in a political scheme very similar to what Tyrion does in ACOK when he discovers Pycelle is the mole betraying his secrets and giving up informations to Cersei
I found also other similarities here and there
Sometimes when I read Jack Vance's stories, something comes up, that it makes me think of ASOIAF
I can understand how Jack Vance is very important to George by reading both authors, there are many homages, I think, George placed here and there throughout in the ASOIAF cycle.
I find real love and admiration, from George's part!
I think a real field of study could be opened, if someone wanted to write and essay, or publish a podcast, on regards to this topic
Thank you so much, as always, for your super knowledgeable insights;
I don't ever miss any of your episodes!
Thoughts on the Green Man that appears to Daemon?
love you guys. Glad to see you guys are still doing input on HOTD. You guys make the show better, like gravy on fried chicken. Thank you, you two. I wish i could hang out with you two & listen to your rants. Hi from Los Angeles
I really hope this season going from 10 to 8 episodes is what caused most of the quality issues, but I'm nonetheless worried about how much the writing quality has dropped compared to last season on multiple occasions. Alicent's visit to Dragonstone was one of the worst offenders and it felt like a scene from later GoT seasons.
I was fan of Baela in the book. And Nettles was a very interesting character, the mystery of her relationship with Daemon too.
If a character had to be cut, it was Rhaena.
I think they have combined Rheana and Nettles.
So the stuff with Daemon and Nettles in the book will be done with Rheana (to make it clear its a father/daughter bond).
The conflict with Rhaenyra will be because Rheana left the children to go find Sherpstealer.
I kinda feel like they're still going to bring Nettles in, but just in a different way, not sure how.
45:00. What Jeyne Arryn should have told Rhaena when asked about the dragon should have been along the lines of, "yes, a dragon has been seen recently here in the Vale. And as it happens it arrived shortly after 4 Targaryens came here to visit".
Just so it's not that Sheepstealer decided to relocate to a new lair, but has decided there is a potential rider here that has it's attention.
I was very confused by the Rhaena scenes. Was she turned out by Jeyne in ep 7? If so, why? Does Jeyne simply not want to feed and house them? Where are Rhaena and her young relatives then meant to go, travelling on foot no less? And why did no one notice her wandering off the road? It has now presumably been days of her being lost...
What was your interpretation?
Was expecting the season to be better than it was. Some episodes were good but overall it was underwhelming. It looks like they're saving things for next season. So season 3 will be the one to truly shine.
As for non readers, they don't know what's to come so some might have lower expectations as they don't know what's to come next season. They probably won't be as excited to have to wait another 2 years.
I have been re-reading ASOIAF again since the show came out. It's not the primary book i am reading so i am taking things slowly. I finished the 2nd Catelyn chapter. It's been years since i last read the books and i do want to refresh my memory. If The Winds of Winter ever comes out, then the reread will keep things fresh in my mind.
Show Alicent betraying everyone because she's obsessed with her old bestie.
I don't know why they are stretching this out. I thought for sure the season was ending with Rhaenyra taking Kings Landing and after this episode there's still no reason why they couldn't have done that.
My question is, what are the writers will do with viserys now ? He is so young for his book storyline, and we won't go into the regency period for his return. 1) Maybe they'll give him rhaena's storyline, and he hatches morning and becomes its rider, although he wasn't a dragonrider in the books.
2) Maybe tyland and lohar will take him from the gullet because whoever viserys ends up with, he must know that that's rhaenyra and Daemon's son. Otherwise, no way 2 year old viserys will remember his parents and alyn doesn't know or ever seen him before, so he will never be the one who brings him back.
What do you think of that, I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts???
@35:30 I think it that even though he is in the tree, this a rather young Bloodraven. He is certainly does not look to be in his 70s as he should be. So it could be that he has two eyes because it's him before the first blackfyre rebellion.
No women is allowed to have a conflict with Rhaenyra, basically every women in the show is her cheerleader.
I started getting Star Trek vibes where #1 and #2 are always going down to the planet putting themselves in direct danger for sake of drama…
This doesn't really concern ep. 8 that much but I wanted to hear your opinion on this....
If I was Alicent at the end of ep 3, I would have made a proposal to Rhaenyra, kill Daemon as retribution for jaehaerys and marry Aegon, they can rule together and their child will inherit the throne, if they don't have children Jaehaera will marry aegon the younger. This would also solve the problem of Rhaenyras bastards, as it can be marketed as a compromise solution to spare the realm more bloodshed. Also, im sure the Hightowers could convince the Faith to accept Aegons polygamy.
What do you think of this proposal? I think it's pretty reasonable considering the risk Rhaenyras family is at, should the war continue, it also keeps everyone happy except the Velaryons, but they don't matter as much in my opinion.
I think Rhaenyra will blame Rhaena for going after the dragon instead of staying with Joffrey and Aegon and viserys, and their deaths. And maybe will ask daemon to kill her idk how else can they bring all together
Daemons vision was quite poor and overly obvious fan service. Also, found it quite ridiculous how alicent could quite simply slip through a blockade, or even get out of kings landing after aemond demanded every ship be inspected.
Already teasing quitting reviews after S2? Wow beating GoT by a few seasons ya'll must truly be unimpressed.
No, not the intention! The question mark was referring to our suggestion at the end that we may do one more video overviewing the whole season, not sure.
We are absolutely continuing. We're frustrated at times with some of the decisions that we can't wrap our heads around, but there's enough good there that we'll keep watching. At least so far, who knows what season 3 will bring!
@@WesterosTV Im considering quitting after that Alicent Rhaenyra scene. Felt like I lived two years before it ended.
I wouldn't blame them if they did. Last episode I decided I was done after this season.
@@WesterosTVI’m interested in more videos on specific topics
Poor alicent , her caracter is so bad this season