Elliot, great job, once again. I appreciate you giving the Thorp the credit it is due. As the first all metal homebuilt design (plans only, no kit), it's been flying since the '60's and just about every fault (very few) has been exposed over the years. It was originally designed as a sport, open cockpit aircraft based on 4' wide aluminum sheets and a Lycoming O-290 ground power unit. Your example shows the how the aircraft has evolved to a Lycoming O-360/CS prop cruiser with the performance of the modern RV's. Couple of comments: Tail flutter: Like most aviation stories, a Thorp had a flutter event as a result of a user intentionally and grossly overspeeding the aircraft, and paying for it with his life. As a result, Thorp added the stabilator counter balance and stiffeners in key areas. The stabilator is attached and pivots within two brackets that have bronze bushings. It is very important for a Thorp flyer to check for slop in the stabilator on every walk around, to ensure there is no excess play in this bushing and the tab linkage. Slop in this area can bring the flutter envelope down significantly. Simply wiggle the tip of the stabilator on the walk around, and wiggle the tab to make sure there is no excessive play. Tailslide: As I mentioned before, the vertical stabilizer and rudder were designed for an O290, and could be larger for a 180HP nose heavy Thorp. This area can be "blanked" out easily at high AOA, rendering the rudder useless. I think this is what you experienced, as the aircraft did not respond to your hammerhead rudder input, and became a lawn dart until airflow returned to the tail. There are examples of larger rudder/stabilizers in the community with good results. Just respect the rudder, as it has its limitations. Tail stall: One other issues with the stabilator is that it can stall. The full 40 flaps position was abandoned as there were instances where nose heavy, high AOA, full flaps would disturb the airflow over the stabilator and cause it to stall, nosing the aircraft over for recovery. Users need to ensure that this flap position is disabled. I get the feeling you really enjoyed the airplane. It is a great design. I make these comments for awareness, because it is important to understand any design you may be flying and its limitations. Fly safe!
Thanks Elliot, for the explanations of how you do the tests. The thing that marks you above most is that you explain your mistakes as well, we all learn from mistakes and having someone willing to show their mistakes, helps us all keep safe.
This guy is amazing! If I built a plane, I'd pay him whatever he charges to run it through it's test program. I'm a big risk taker myself, but his experience is invaluable!
Truly amazing! What a brilliant, captivating off-the-wall series showing tests you'd never normally see. Every move dealt with so expertly and with full explanations. Thank you so much for your time and effort in putting this series together Elliot.👌
Retired airline guy.... These are great videos, I'm hooked. I know very little (if anything) about this type of flying, home built or experimental aircraft, etc. Great stuff.
I just stumbled upon your channel today...better late than never. It just dawned on me why I enjoy your vids so much (besides...it's test flying frickin' airplanes) you're a natural, born, troubleshooter. You love solving problems. Troubleshooting is an art, as much as painting and sculpting...and more than even science. Science is for the 'how do we fix this'. Troubleshooting is the 'why'...and that's art...and a rare one at that. I'm guessing your brain can't shut off if there's an unsolved something rattling around in there. I can dig it. Thanks.
Another excellent video. Interesting to see the pax side seat belts floating around at negative G. Good practice would suggest they're clasped and tightened in single pilot ops.
Really interesting to go through the process of these tests; all the considerations about the aerodynamics add an exceptional value to the video. Please, keep posting videos like this☺
You've very quickly become an inspiration for me since I watched your Flightchops episode. Looking forward to starting my glider aerobatics soon! Keep up the awesome content.
I had a laser cutting shop and I made many parts for these planes. With my laser being qualified to cut flight critical parts, that opened many doors to me. Been retired for eight years now. I do not miss the work, but I do miss the people.
jcheck6 well said. We carry this moment as one of our 11 lessons learned for 2019 but I go back and forth about what the action is against that lesson. For instance the hammerhead recovery was likely a bit late but as a strategy for recovery I don’t think it was wrong. My second favorite recovery would be to positive pitch out. If you stay positive the engine would have kept running, which would have kept the tail blown. However bouncing off the stall buffet in an airplane prone to stall-wingdrop....sounds like begging for a spin entry. Anyway, simpler things like securing the passenger harnesses, and the gps antenna are easy takeaways. Thanks for the note.
Very nice video, Elliot. Am I correct to say that it looked like you only pulled about 2.4-2.5G when attempting the 150mph loop? Wouldn't it have worked better if you have pulled more G to make the plane go around quicker before getting in the situation that you've found yourself in? As many others have said, I thank you for posting it with all the explanations going through the maneuvers.
Manie Rossouw that’s the odd part of the aerobatic log book entry. There are many ways to do a loop or a roll. But the logbook entry doesn’t leave room for much of a description. So what does the logbook entry really mean? Thanks
There are several articles but they are behind the sport aviation pay wall. If you are a EAA member you can search the archives for all of Thorp's contributions, they are all worth reading. Thank you!!!
Elliot, thank you very much for sharing these videos with us. What would be a good resource for taking training for test pilot/elevated risk maneuvers? I wouldn't necessarily say that I aspire to be a test pilot but would like to have the confidence that sort of training brings to the table in the event I end up in a high-risk situation. As a low-time VFR pilot, things like spin/upset recovery training are an option but don't really seem to cover the more critical thinking you display here.
I use pledge on all my race cars!!! If you spray pledge in your wheel wells the rubber from the burn outs won’t stick to anything! It repels dirt also very well
One of my favourite videos. Love the systematic approach - I can only hope my test pilot is half as thorough when the time comes. Looked like the passenger harness wasn't done up and restrained. You were wearing a helmet, so getting hit in the eye shouldn't have been a problem, but loose objects in the cockpit should be avoided, especially when doing something like this. Still a great video though!
Good eye, I was watching that as well. I don't have a good answer. I was also switching hands between maneuvers, can't explain that either. Another example of the benefit of have cameras in the cockpit..."why did I do that...better next time". Thank you for the comment.
That is a S-18, not a T-18. We built a T-18 back in the mid 1970's. The inner and outer wing panels are both 4' in span on the T-18. The S-18 has a shorter inboard panel span and a longer outboard panel span. The T-18 is an awesome aircraft.
@@utopiasnow True. My dad Jerry Barden and John Thorp were partners in the aviation business when I was young. They designed the original stabilator (sp?). My dad regretted patenting it. They designed the Cherokee for Piper. We used Thorp's templates to lay out all the skin pieces for our T-18. That made it much easier to build using matched hole tooling.
Laborchef Dr. Klenk thank you for the comment. The gauge in the airplane was in mph, and the speeds placarded in the airplane were in mph. The original documentation for the airplane was also in Mph. Thanks again.
Elliot im wondering what you think about the recent high profile crash of A Thorp After canopy departure/ Tail strike. Any upgrades to this Thorp /Extra latch or beefed up . Or was the problem it was not latched properly?
All this just sounds to me like “push it until it breaks”. Glad you know what your doing. These planes you test are they one off customs or part of kit/manufacturing program, and your testing the concept and design?
Chris, this airplane is a well established kit. This aircraft was built decades ago and flown for a long time before being modified recently. So this build up was much faster than would be done with a new aircraft.
Bill Wessels thank you! We had the benefit of altitude so I had time. I was ~6k’ above bailout altitude I decided when I got on the ground that I was probably two errors in, and I had maybe four more errors before I’d start thinking about going for help. Thank you
I would put try puting some jelly beans on a tin plate sitting on the dash. If they start dancing around then there's some resonant vibrations being transmitted through the flight controls, which cound indicate eminent flutter.
joe komo the Thorps have been successfully spun but it doesn’t seem common in that community. The short answer is spins were outside of the scope. The rolls and loops were only barely within the scope of the program. The intent is the airplane is used as a short distance (less than 100 mile) commuter....so it’s hard to justify the cost and risk to the program of a spin series. Thank you for the note!!!
What would be a minimum bailout altitude in a plane that is considered unrecoverable due to something like a wing rip for example? Or is it standard procedure to guide it in till the last minute a bailout is necessary even though all control surface has been lost?
Great vid. Love seeing the testing process. Looks like the attitude indicator had a fun time during the testing. How loud was it at Vne? I find myself relying on the sound of the wind to determine how fast/slow my students are going a lot of times before I even get a chance to reference the airspeed indicator.
Very cool! I've enjoyed following this series. Somewhere I missed the framing of your work: Who's paying the freight for your testing and why is there such thorough testing on a (famous) airplane designed...in the year I was born? Isn't this the testing to which prototypes are normally subjected before 1,600+ plans are sold? I skimmed all 23 pages of your 22-page report but didn't find the answer. Good fun and many thanks.
John Fife this is the standard FAA required testing for any newly built (even if it’s a kit) experimental aircraft, or in this case after a major modification was made to the airplane. It is common for builders to short cut this testing especially on shake and bake quick built aircraft. But as a hired test pilot I have to be sure that when I sign off a phase one test program (as required by the FAA) I have complied with the intention of and the letter of the law. A test pilot is only as good as his report and if people can’t trust your word you don’t have much left to offer. Thanks for the comment!!
You probably know this already, but during the loop testing, if you had been able to get to the rudder earlier in the sequence of events then it may have made the hammerhead. It looked like you were kicking the rudder when you had already run out of speed entirely, and presumably the prop wash alone wasn't enough. Apologies if this smacks of Monday morning quaterbacking! It's interesting that there was no spin testing. Over here in the UK, aircraft that are cleared for basic aerobatics but not spinning still have to demonstrate a two turn spin during flight testing so that should a future owner get into trouble the spind recovery is proven.
Thanks for the note. About the spin testing. So in the UK all amateur built experimental aircraft that are cleared for aerobatics have to do a two turn spin? That's interesting. Do you guys use the same definition of aerobatics that we do? Are there T-18s in the UK? Thanks
@@utopiasnow Hi, yes. For instance the RV-6 and RV-7 are not approved for intentional spinning by the UK CAA deligated airworthiness authority for amateur builds, the LAA. However, to gain approval to allow aerobatics to be added to the Permit to Fly limitations, during flight testing of each individual aircraft, they have to demonstrate recoverability from a two turn spin. This doesn't apply to all aircraft, just aerobatic ones. Amateur built aircraft without a declared aerobatic capability do not have to demonstrate spin recovery on an airframe by airframe basis, just once when the design is approved by the Light Aicraft Association (our EAA equivalent) - The LAA maintain a list of approved designs for amateur construction, and choosing to build something not on the list means the builder has to pay for a comprehensive structural analysis and provide it to the LAA before they may begin construction.
@@utopiasnow I've been on a tour of Sanders place but never saw the fuel truck, old trucks are cool. Great channel Elliot, learn so much watching, Cheers.
The prop wash, slipstream or whatever you want to call it is going around the aircraft placing a force on the vertical surfaces of the tail which try's to yaw the aircraft to the left , so if you pushed full left rudder rather than right you would be helping this tendency rather than opposing it . The fact that your unaware of this means in my opinion your not suitable for testing any aircraft.
Yeah, as soon as that engine quit you were screwed. Not even an Extra can hammerhead with zero airspeed and zero prop blast. An engine with a standard carburetor (and not a pressure carb) will quit every single time at even slightly negative G as the fuel floats off the bottom of the float bowl. At that point, at that attitude, you’re coming down backwards, whether you like it or not. Great job holding on tight and not letting a flight control slam to it’s stop.
@@tamarindocoral My humblest apologys, I will take some time out to correct my grammar and hopefully come up to a standard which is acceptable to you. If I achieve this goal I will tentatively request your permission to comment in the future and you might say ' you now have business to comment ' if I even come close to your eloquence it will be one of the finest days of my life.
@@utopiasnow I got too slow in a Great Lakes (biplane, not the amphib) while doing hammerheads, back in the 1980's... ...the reversed flow over the wings grabbed all four ailerons and jerked the stick out of my hand. I never let that happen again!
I really like these longer videos with explanations of what your doing and why. Thanks!
tlane 177 thank you
And there is a high likelihood that you dont know what the hell he is talking about.
Elliot, great job, once again. I appreciate you giving the Thorp the credit it is due. As the first all metal homebuilt design (plans only, no kit), it's been flying since the '60's and just about every fault (very few) has been exposed over the years. It was originally designed as a sport, open cockpit aircraft based on 4' wide aluminum sheets and a Lycoming O-290 ground power unit. Your example shows the how the aircraft has evolved to a Lycoming O-360/CS prop cruiser with the performance of the modern RV's. Couple of comments:
Tail flutter: Like most aviation stories, a Thorp had a flutter event as a result of a user intentionally and grossly overspeeding the aircraft, and paying for it with his life. As a result, Thorp added the stabilator counter balance and stiffeners in key areas. The stabilator is attached and pivots within two brackets that have bronze bushings. It is very important for a Thorp flyer to check for slop in the stabilator on every walk around, to ensure there is no excess play in this bushing and the tab linkage. Slop in this area can bring the flutter envelope down significantly. Simply wiggle the tip of the stabilator on the walk around, and wiggle the tab to make sure there is no excessive play.
Tailslide: As I mentioned before, the vertical stabilizer and rudder were designed for an O290, and could be larger for a 180HP nose heavy Thorp. This area can be "blanked" out easily at high AOA, rendering the rudder useless. I think this is what you experienced, as the aircraft did not respond to your hammerhead rudder input, and became a lawn dart until airflow returned to the tail. There are examples of larger rudder/stabilizers in the community with good results. Just respect the rudder, as it has its limitations.
Tail stall: One other issues with the stabilator is that it can stall. The full 40 flaps position was abandoned as there were instances where nose heavy, high AOA, full flaps would disturb the airflow over the stabilator and cause it to stall, nosing the aircraft over for recovery. Users need to ensure that this flap position is disabled.
I get the feeling you really enjoyed the airplane. It is a great design. I make these comments for awareness, because it is important to understand any design you may be flying and its limitations. Fly safe!
Such a great airplane. Thank you for the comment!
"Disarming to the pilot..." That's a new term for me. VERY useful with my T-18 almost ready to go. Thanks, Elliot.
Robert Cringely thanks Bob!! Excited that your plane is getting close!!
Thanks Elliot, for the explanations of how you do the tests. The thing that marks you above most is that you explain your mistakes as well, we all learn from mistakes and having someone willing to show their mistakes, helps us all keep safe.
Thanks man, it's always stressful to tell these kinds of stories. But this kind of comment helps keep it in perspective.
This guy is amazing! If I built a plane, I'd pay him whatever he charges to run it through it's test program. I'm a big risk taker myself, but his experience is invaluable!
Thanks man
Truly amazing! What a brilliant, captivating off-the-wall series showing tests you'd never normally see. Every move dealt with so expertly and with full explanations. Thank you so much for your time and effort in putting this series together Elliot.👌
Thank you Kevin, I appreciate the note. Let me know what we can be doing better!!
Retired airline guy.... These are great videos, I'm hooked. I know very little (if anything) about this type of flying, home built or experimental aircraft, etc. Great stuff.
Excellent content Elliot. Don't ever hesitate to get heavy into the technical details. The sound track is great too. Nice work.
thanks
The rehearsals of systematic reasoning is near impeccable. Excellent work
Thank you for the fantastic and informative videos; they are greatly appreciated.
I just stumbled upon your channel today...better late than never. It just dawned on me why I enjoy your vids so much (besides...it's test flying frickin' airplanes) you're a natural, born, troubleshooter. You love solving problems. Troubleshooting is an art, as much as painting and sculpting...and more than even science. Science is for the 'how do we fix this'. Troubleshooting is the 'why'...and that's art...and a rare one at that. I'm guessing your brain can't shut off if there's an unsolved something rattling around in there. I can dig it. Thanks.
Another excellent video. Interesting to see the pax side seat belts floating around at negative G. Good practice would suggest they're clasped and tightened in single pilot ops.
Thanks for the comment!!
Epic to see the Roulette pic in the BG of your office. Yeeeew from AU!
Warwick Boulter awesome
I love the T-18 and it's been a battle in my mind between it and the Mustang II, which has a big more shoulder room.
They are both cool airplanes.
@@utopiasnow Absolutely and cheaper than RVs on the used market. I like that they can be built from plans, no kit required. RVs are awesome too btw!
As an M2 owner I might be biased, but they're an awesome aeropane.
Absolutely my favorite vids! The way you break down your debrief makes sense in my brain.
Thank you
Thank you
Really interesting to go through the process of these tests; all the considerations about the aerodynamics add an exceptional value to the video.
Please, keep posting videos like this☺
Thank you for the note!!
This is so cool, seeing the inner workings of being a test pilot is fascinating!
Glad you enjoyed it!
It has been a long time since last video! Hope your family and you are well. Hope to see new videos soon!
Working on it! thank you
You've very quickly become an inspiration for me since I watched your Flightchops episode. Looking forward to starting my glider aerobatics soon! Keep up the awesome content.
Thanks man, let me know how the glider aerobatic training goes!!!
This is great, thank you for posting your work. Airplanes are Cool.
Jacob Mettler thank you!!
I had a laser cutting shop and I made many parts for these planes. With my laser being qualified to cut flight critical parts, that opened many doors to me. Been retired for eight years now. I do not miss the work, but I do miss the people.
Great to have you hear. Thanks
Thanks for sharing and explaining! Very good!
Thank you for the note
Man, I love the process. I hope to have that level of experience some day.
Paul Herrera thanks man
Love the plane and love the channel! Thanks for sharing.
Herbert Kojetin thank you!!
Great vid. As we said in the military, "unload for control."
jcheck6 well said. We carry this moment as one of our 11 lessons learned for 2019 but I go back and forth about what the action is against that lesson.
For instance the hammerhead recovery was likely a bit late but as a strategy for recovery I don’t think it was wrong. My second favorite recovery would be to positive pitch out. If you stay positive the engine would have kept running, which would have kept the tail blown. However bouncing off the stall buffet in an airplane prone to stall-wingdrop....sounds like begging for a spin entry.
Anyway, simpler things like securing the passenger harnesses, and the gps antenna are easy takeaways.
Thanks for the note.
Great video! Learned a lot from it. Thank you Elliot!
Thank you James!!
Brother, you have the coolest job I can think of,
I am very lucky. Thank you for the comment and the support.
So badass! What a gorgeous lil bird!
Hecht Speed it is a sweetheart
Very nice video, Elliot. Am I correct to say that it looked like you only pulled about 2.4-2.5G when attempting the 150mph loop? Wouldn't it have worked better if you have pulled more G to make the plane go around quicker before getting in the situation that you've found yourself in? As many others have said, I thank you for posting it with all the explanations going through the maneuvers.
Manie Rossouw that’s the odd part of the aerobatic log book entry. There are many ways to do a loop or a roll. But the logbook entry doesn’t leave room for much of a description. So what does the logbook entry really mean?
Thanks
@@utopiasnow keep up with the testing videos and explanations. There really isn't much like it on TH-cam. Safe flying.
Great content Elliot! Is there anyway I can find a copy of the article you were talking about at 5:12 online? Thanks!
There are several articles but they are behind the sport aviation pay wall. If you are a EAA member you can search the archives for all of Thorp's contributions, they are all worth reading. Thank you!!!
@@sanderssmoketech8275 Perfect, thank you, I will!
Thanks guys
Elliot, thank you very much for sharing these videos with us. What would be a good resource for taking training for test pilot/elevated risk maneuvers? I wouldn't necessarily say that I aspire to be a test pilot but would like to have the confidence that sort of training brings to the table in the event I end up in a high-risk situation. As a low-time VFR pilot, things like spin/upset recovery training are an option but don't really seem to cover the more critical thinking you display here.
I would recommend the National Test Pilot School in Mojave.
watched the whole thing. It was amazing. Keep posting videos man. Your channel is great
Thank you, I appreciate the feedback.
I use pledge on all my race cars!!! If you spray pledge in your wheel wells the rubber from the burn outs won’t stick to anything! It repels dirt also very well
good tricks
The AH seemed to be having a good time as well...!
Yeah, it wasn't happy.
So pledge is you secret weapon... Do you use that on the canopy as well? Always trying to pick up some of your tricks when watching..
simplemanfc3 Hahahah!!
Pledge is a Sanders thing, I just try to do what the owner wants :)
One of my favourite videos. Love the systematic approach - I can only hope my test pilot is half as thorough when the time comes. Looked like the passenger harness wasn't done up and restrained. You were wearing a helmet, so getting hit in the eye shouldn't have been a problem, but loose objects in the cockpit should be avoided, especially when doing something like this. Still a great video though!
yeah, missed the harness that day.
thank you
Love these videos, always leaves me wanting more to watch!
Thanks man
Awesome stuff Elliot. Question. Left hand placement seems pretty intentional I.e. you never really move it. Why? What are you Keeping contact on?
Good eye, I was watching that as well.
I don't have a good answer. I was also switching hands between maneuvers, can't explain that either. Another example of the benefit of have cameras in the cockpit..."why did I do that...better next time".
Thank you for the comment.
Your great Elliot! We miss you and your uploads lately. Greetings from cno, the other side of the fence where Joel came from.
Thanks for the note. More uploads coming!!
Very informative. Thanks for putting this on!
Cool.. pushed it.. 'till it puked... and the gyro.. So the gryo wasn't cage-able?
I'll never fly one of these but, as always, I enjoyed the video. Fly safe.
Jeffro Bodene thanks
Very interesting stuff, Elliot! 👌🏻
Thank you FFF!!
Very interesting episode! Yet, why didn't you cage the AH during the aeros?
That is a S-18, not a T-18. We built a T-18 back in the mid 1970's. The inner and outer wing panels are both 4' in span on the T-18. The S-18 has a shorter inboard panel span and a longer outboard panel span. The T-18 is an awesome aircraft.
Ron Barden I would go one step farther and say this is “the S18”, since it is Lu Sunderland’s prototype.
@@utopiasnow True. My dad Jerry Barden and John Thorp were partners in the aviation business when I was young. They designed the original stabilator (sp?). My dad regretted patenting it. They designed the Cherokee for Piper. We used Thorp's templates to lay out all the skin pieces for our T-18. That made it much easier to build using matched hole tooling.
I meant "not" patenting it.
This is probably a common ask question, but why is he using mph instead of knots?
Laborchef Dr. Klenk thank you for the comment.
The gauge in the airplane was in mph, and the speeds placarded in the airplane were in mph.
The original documentation for the airplane was also in Mph.
Thanks again.
Elliot, I hope you’re doing well? Just rewatched some of your videos, almost forgot how awesome they are 👍
Welcome back! Thank you
That flex in the horizontal stabilizer went the hammerhead went slightly pear shaped was terrifying to watch.
th-cam.com/video/pbznX_69t6w/w-d-xo.html
exactly~!! The post flight inspection was significant. Good eye.
It was a serious post flight for sure
Super edifying. ⚡️⚡️⚡️
Beyond Visual Range thank you
Why is there no flap uplock on the thorpe? I would think that you'd want to have one for regular flying, and especially for mild aerobatics.
yea its fine for cross country. I have trouble faulting Mr Thorp though
Another great video, love all of this stuff and learning new things!!
Thank you Ben!!
Elliot im wondering what you think about the recent high profile crash of A Thorp After canopy departure/ Tail strike. Any upgrades to this Thorp /Extra latch or beefed up . Or was the problem it was not latched properly?
I dont know anything about that.
How come I didn’t know this channel? Great stuff!
Thanks
All this just sounds to me like “push it until it breaks”. Glad you know what your doing. These planes you test are they one off customs or part of kit/manufacturing program, and your testing the concept and design?
Chris, this airplane is a well established kit. This aircraft was built decades ago and flown for a long time before being modified recently. So this build up was much faster than would be done with a new aircraft.
Awesome video! Love the channel
Thank you for the note.
Had anyone used a stick shaker in place of stick raps ? At least you can control the frequency then with motor RPM. Just a thought.
In the military, it was referred to as the pucker factor. So how high was the pucker factor? Great video. Enjoyed it. Keep up the great work.
Bill Wessels thank you!
We had the benefit of altitude so I had time. I was ~6k’ above bailout altitude
I decided when I got on the ground that I was probably two errors in, and I had maybe four more errors before I’d start thinking about going for help.
Thank you
I would put try puting some jelly beans on a tin plate sitting on the dash. If they start dancing around then there's some resonant vibrations being transmitted through the flight controls, which cound indicate eminent flutter.
i just noticed at 17:00 that the attitude indicator has decided to take a lunch break
hi Elliot, I was wondering why you did't spin it. Is that not what kills everyone?
unable to exit the spin sequence?
joe komo the Thorps have been successfully spun but it doesn’t seem common in that community. The short answer is spins were outside of the scope. The rolls and loops were only barely within the scope of the program. The intent is the airplane is used as a short distance (less than 100 mile) commuter....so it’s hard to justify the cost and risk to the program of a spin series.
Thank you for the note!!!
@@utopiasnow thanks, my next door buddys have 3 thorp's. That's why I am concerned!
The FAA made me spin this for STC work..th-cam.com/video/8-T0zuV3pg0/w-d-xo.html
good morning, you have video of the test with gas turbine on the white plane
www.redbull.com/us-en/episodes/mojave-test-pilot-breaking-the-day-s01-e01
What's the story with the artificial horizon in that craft?
Tough day for the artificial horizon.
great video, I learned a lot
thank you for stopping by
I notice that the (shown) roll maneuvers were all done to the left.
You know the rest! N.B. Prop/engine direction.
Thanks for the note. I do prefer to roll to the left. I appreciate the comment.
What would be a minimum bailout altitude in a plane that is considered unrecoverable due to something like a wing rip for example? Or is it standard procedure to guide it in till the last minute a bailout is necessary even though all control surface has been lost?
I would start the conversation at 3,000' AGL for a minimum bailout. Briefed as "bailing out if out of control below X,XXX feet"
awesome vid! Thanks.
great angles!
@@JJM2222 Thank you, it was a great day.
15:21 when the artificial horizon says " ...aaaand I'm done...Out."
about right
this is why you
must not do aerobatics while flying in cloud
What's up with the ball on the right shoulder of his bailout?
Its called a green apple. More info here:
th-cam.com/video/a-lceaOL2E8/w-d-xo.html
@@utopiasnow I saw the zip on the rig and wondered if that was it, thanks for the quick reply!
When and where can I order one to be built
There are projects around. It was a very popular kit.
Bernard Anderson try Thorpcentral.com
How do you feel about flying an airplane with the fuel tank between the panel and engine? It has always struck me as bad for survivability in a crash.
yes
Great vid. Love seeing the testing process. Looks like the attitude indicator had a fun time during the testing. How loud was it at Vne? I find myself relying on the sound of the wind to determine how fast/slow my students are going a lot of times before I even get a chance to reference the airspeed indicator.
Yeah the AH was not happy. As far as wind noise at VNE it's not a loud airplane. Thank you for the note!!
Elliot Seguin interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing!
Very cool! I've enjoyed following this series. Somewhere I missed the framing of your work: Who's paying the freight for your testing and why is there such thorough testing on a (famous) airplane designed...in the year I was born? Isn't this the testing to which prototypes are normally subjected before 1,600+ plans are sold? I skimmed all 23 pages of your 22-page report but didn't find the answer. Good fun and many thanks.
John Fife this is the standard FAA required testing for any newly built (even if it’s a kit) experimental aircraft, or in this case after a major modification was made to the airplane.
It is common for builders to short cut this testing especially on shake and bake quick built aircraft. But as a hired test pilot I have to be sure that when I sign off a phase one test program (as required by the FAA) I have complied with the intention of and the letter of the law. A test pilot is only as good as his report and if people can’t trust your word you don’t have much left to offer.
Thanks for the comment!!
You probably know this already, but during the loop testing, if you had been able to get to the rudder earlier in the sequence of events then it may have made the hammerhead. It looked like you were kicking the rudder when you had already run out of speed entirely, and presumably the prop wash alone wasn't enough. Apologies if this smacks of Monday morning quaterbacking! It's interesting that there was no spin testing. Over here in the UK, aircraft that are cleared for basic aerobatics but not spinning still have to demonstrate a two turn spin during flight testing so that should a future owner get into trouble the spind recovery is proven.
Thanks for the note.
About the spin testing. So in the UK all amateur built experimental aircraft that are cleared for aerobatics have to do a two turn spin? That's interesting.
Do you guys use the same definition of aerobatics that we do?
Are there T-18s in the UK?
Thanks
@@utopiasnow Hi, yes. For instance the RV-6 and RV-7 are not approved for intentional spinning by the UK CAA deligated airworthiness authority for amateur builds, the LAA. However, to gain approval to allow aerobatics to be added to the Permit to Fly limitations, during flight testing of each individual aircraft, they have to demonstrate recoverability from a two turn spin. This doesn't apply to all aircraft, just aerobatic ones. Amateur built aircraft without a declared aerobatic capability do not have to demonstrate spin recovery on an airframe by airframe basis, just once when the design is approved by the Light Aicraft Association (our EAA equivalent) - The LAA maintain a list of approved designs for amateur construction, and choosing to build something not on the list means the builder has to pay for a comprehensive structural analysis and provide it to the LAA before they may begin construction.
What is it with Pilots always using pledge?
hahaha, it was all I could find that morning. The airplane seemed to pretty to just use water. Dennis would have just used water.
My first roll was in a throp, headsets came off and hung on the canopy handle. Fun airplane.
fun plane for sure
What years is the fuel truck?
58 I think? It is the most awesome
@@utopiasnow I've been on a tour of Sanders place but never saw the fuel truck, old trucks are cool. Great channel Elliot, learn so much watching, Cheers.
Why do you always fly with oxygen?
I wear the mask for three reasons
1 Smoke in the cockpit
2 Better comms
3 crash protection
More info here:
th-cam.com/video/a-lceaOL2E8/w-d-xo.html
"... disarming for a pilot." Indeed!
hahahaha thanks
Rip to that gyro around 15:30
didn't think you were a rapper!
The prop wash, slipstream or whatever you want to call it is going around the aircraft placing a force on the vertical surfaces of the tail which try's to yaw the aircraft to the left , so if you pushed full left rudder rather than right you would be helping this tendency rather than opposing it . The fact that your unaware of this means in my opinion your not suitable for testing any aircraft.
Interesting. Yeah the plan was to hammerhead out, so it wasn’t the yaw that was a surprise it was the snap. But thanks.
Yeah, as soon as that engine quit you were screwed. Not even an Extra can hammerhead with zero airspeed and zero prop blast. An engine with a standard carburetor (and not a pressure carb) will quit every single time at even slightly negative G as the fuel floats off the bottom of the float bowl. At that point, at that attitude, you’re coming down backwards, whether you like it or not. Great job holding on tight and not letting a flight control slam to it’s stop.
Your horrible grammar leads me to believe you've got zero business criticizing his flying abilities.
@@tamarindocoral My humblest apologys, I will take some time out to correct my grammar and hopefully come up to a standard which is acceptable to you. If I achieve this goal I will tentatively request your permission to comment in the future and you might say ' you now have business to comment ' if I even come close to your eloquence it will be one of the finest days of my life.
This is the first time I’ve heard you use ‘dirty words’ 🤭
Belt Check!
yeah, and the GPS antenna behind the panel. You can hear the belts hit the canopy.
Great video but a lot of the language is greek to me 😉what is a Stick Rap.
Michael Stern a step control input used to measure the damping associated with flutter.
Rudder kicks are used for similar reasons.
"wearing" a parachute is not the same as "using" a parachute. ;-)
I don't understand.
@@utopiasnow you don't "use" the parachute until you actually pull the D-ring. Up until that point you are just "wearing" it. ;-)
@@stay_at_home_astronaut Got it
@@utopiasnow I got too slow in a Great Lakes (biplane, not the amphib) while doing hammerheads, back in the 1980's... ...the reversed flow over the wings grabbed all four ailerons and jerked the stick out of my hand. I never let that happen again!