It was a stupid strategy. You can’t claim ownership of someone else’s intellectual property. If anything, the A1 LOP intellectual property belongs to Eugene Stoner, Armalite, and Colt. Even they don’t own it anymore because the AR15/M16 family of weapons became public domain long ago. Their entire argument fell apart. The lawsuit was a desperate attempt to make some money for doing absolutely nothing.
KE Arms will have a statement in the forthcoming days I will be making my declaration to the court as part of our motion for summary judgment along with all of its evidentiary documents public. This includes all relevant contracts and NDAs.
Reeks of greed on the part of the GWACS group attempting to extract more wealth from a product they failed to exploit themselves, like the groups that acquired & ran companies like Remington & Colt into the ground for their & their investors’ benefit.
Probably bought up by an investor, maybe in the hope to actually make more lowers, saw that the mold was really shot, or at least in need of a major refurb and then wanted to cut his losses with a frivolous lawsuit and out of court settlement.
That's capitalism for ya. If it's more profitable TO THE INVESTORS to run a company into the ground, waste labor and tooling, harm customers and workers, you're SUPPOSED to do that.
@@dragon3allzdeep325 There was also at least two purported manufacturers of Bren 10's that took down payments and the more recent Sol Invictus AA-12 debacle.
It seems that as a result of the investor's statements in his deposition, you could sue him for legal expenses incurred defending against this frivolous lawsuit, as well as for financial damage to the project and all those involved.
@@bBlaF In France, this is called the condemnation to costs (condamnation aux dépens), it'is not systematic, it is the court that decides. And it can be really really expensive.
@@paranoiia8 Not necessarily with the initial copyright claims this suit is going to be in Federal Court where you can ask for Rule 11 sanctions for frivolous claims and lawsuits brought for improper motives which this certainly seems to be. Heck the copyright act includes a fee shifting provision at the discretion of the presiding judge, though I am not sure if the last is available if the copyright claims are dropped. The English rule where the loser pays for the legal costs of the prevailing party can also be a little overrated as you still have to fund the lawsuit yourself and hope you get some money back at the end of the case.
I was thinking the same thing their frivolous lawsuit hampered the marketing of the project imagine how much better the WWSD would have sold if it had received more attention in the mainstream market
"just because youre right doesnt mean youre going to have justice in this system. justice is not what the legal system does; it does legal stuff" the truth is often painful. thanks Karl, good luck
Because for a long time companies like KE Arms are the exception, companies that actually invest in a project, take risks, and reap rewards and losses accordingly. Corporate America is, for the most part, a gang of rent seeking grifters that use the courts and lobbysts to siphon off the last penny out of society in general and individual consumers in particular. Certain epithets come to mind but I will leave them unexpressed, they are easy to guess.
Yeah, I remember the detailed videos done by IR & SR in the design and manufacturing of the KP15 lower. Incredibly complicated to get something like that “right” in function and able to be repeatedly manufactured.
@@george5156 sorry there is no sauce thay will make me eat turds. What you need to do with the rich is of a different nature, and to be clear I refer to their power to rule the lives of others.
I was really starting to wonder why I wasn’t hearing much about Kp15s or the WWSD project. Sad to hear there’s people in the industry causing trouble for people who helped them and people who were on the same team. It is odd that they’d continue pursuing the lawsuit with their current investor. Thank you for the update
People in many industries don’t see each other as “on the same team”. Even Karl acknowledges this to an extent when he describes the concerns he had with getting all the vendors to work together in the first place.
It's not odd at all. the current investor is against civilian owership of ARs and sees this as a way to virtue signal and help keep ARs off the market.
To me it seems that GWACS we never about anything else than "whatever it takes to get that money". I'd hesitate to even call them a part of the industry. They just bought some molds as an investment.
Thanks a lot for letting us know and speaking out about this issue with GWACS. I believe that it's really important to have a set of certain values like honesty and respect. It seems like more and more companies don't follow such values anymore and that's why I really want to show you my support in this way. I already bought and WWSD rifle and will consider supporting you financially in the future. Please never give up these values and rest assured that you have people standing behind you. People who you can reach out to if you really need in case this or any other legal issue should worsen in the future.
The moment he said “Reed Oppenheimer” I knew what was up. He’s been involved in thinly veiled social engineering forever. At first glance, his causes all sound charitable and flowery. But even a cursory look shows they think peasants should never be allowed to be self sufficient and Certainly not armed. They need to be ruled, after all. They just shouldn’t know about it.
This would be the most ridiculously Anti-Gun strategy. Stopping AR manufacturing one plastic lower at a time. That Guy's not Anti-Gun, he certainly says he is, and supplies money to Schumer (who's not a true believer in anything himself), but I think he doesn't care one way ore the other. He wants just to scam some money out of KE Arms. The worst thing about those type of people is that they don't have any values except their own financial gain.
Slapp suit? I don’t know all your details in this case, but you could arguably pursue a countersuit if your counsel feels they did know better but pursued the suit using the court as a cudgel. All ya gotta do is show material harm (lost sales, un-actualized sales may count) and a few emails from their counsel saying this isn’t viable (discovery bait) . I totally get if you/the others don’t want to get tied further in lawsuits, but if nothing else I hope gwacs gets what they deserve- absolutely nothing.
If you sue to regain monetary losses will the settlement, if won, ever be paid? I know having a new mold cut and the tech package to produce the product is expensive. Could you realize a profit if you started from scratch with a design all your own?
Not gona lie, the "drama" behind some of these businesses is absolutely absurd. Almost kinda reminds me of how lithium based batteries were developed. Super long story short, Sony wanted lighter batteries but no battery manufacturer wanted to make them cuz it could compete with the old style of batteries. So Sony said screw it and built their own battery factory so they could get the parts they wanted. If existing firms aren't willing to meet market demand, that just leaves open market sectors for exploitation.
My old man used to work for a company that was involved R&D for lithium batteries in industrial usage, but their CEO was much interested in another project that was a personal mission of his, so all the funding went that way, that project ultimately bankrupted them.
@@nonyabisness6306 sometimes in order for something to get done you have to do it yourself. Sony is a tech company and they dabble in literally everything technology
I’ve watched this video once already. I just had to view it again thanks to “Runkle of the Bailey”, a Canadian law channel. They just eviscerated a gag order motion by GWACS in the case against KE Arms. One thing the lawyer brought up was not only did GWACS attempt to gag InRange, but they essentially compelled the judge to watch Karl’s video which did an effective job of adding another nail into the coffin of this specious lawsuit. Since the request for the gag order stated the number of views this video had, I felt it only appropriate that I watch it one more time to add to the view count.
Damn Karl, I'm sorry this is/was happening. What a giant pain in the ass, unfortunately this is the most American thing ever. Nothing to do with the fact it includes anything to do with firearms, but the fact that as soon as the little guy starts to make a profit off something the big guy overlooked the deep pockets let hell rain down. Also including the fact that the deep pockets keep people from innovating, we all know this is happening daily in all sorts of avenues of business, ones that would probably have advanced us past a lot of the issues we're currently fighting about. I'm not an AR guy, but I've loved this series from the beginning, just seemed like a cool different take on home builds. With all the hold ups in the long term series I half wondered if something like this happened. Keep up the fight Karl.
Did you watch to the end? The investor is anti AR and against civilian ownership of military style rifles. He also said he had no interest in making them. This is about gun control. not profit.
@@vigunfighter I don't think we ought to take the investor on his word. GWACS seemed happy enough to "work out a deal" before they actually sued. This just smells like extortion.
@@airminer I'm with you. All the anti-AR rhetoric in response to questions about his involvement in the product reeks of him trying to dress up his grifting as something "moral" now that he's being called out on it.
Thank you for addressing this. I happen to come across the court filing during a google search fest when I was just trying to read up on development and what happened to GWACS. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I’m not well versed in legal speak so I didn’t have to time or energy to translate it into regular speak. You laid it out in a way that was easy to understand, so thank you for that. I hope you, KE Arms and Brownells prevail and get GWACS and this Oppenheimer guy to back off and go back to the hole that they crawled out of to file this frivolous crap. Good luck and hopefully it’ll be over soon.
I recently purchased my complete rifle from Brownell‘s this summer. I just completed putting it through sight in at the range this weekend. This makes me really proud that I was able to support the right people and businesses that are trying to make this the product it deserves to be. The rifle is amazing, and I look forward to being able to support you more in the future!
Thank you karl for speaking out and keeping us abreast , this goes to show that just because a company may manufacture firearms does not mean that either them or there investors have the consumers in mind and that we need to be more aware of the goings ons in these companies not only for ourselves but for our rights and our futures
There is an underlying, fundamental dishonesty in firearms operations as a whole. Historically, and through today. For every good actor out there there are plenty of bad ones that say all the good things, but never deliver or just outright cheat and steal. People involved in firearms typically have a defiant personality which allows them to suspend disbelief and doubt, especially when spoken to in the same language. Same with other devout believers--tell them what they want to hear and you can't keep the money away. Sometimes failure to deliever or outright fraud is just being over ones head and not knowing it. However, when others also suspend their belief in proper business practices you just end up in an echo chamber with little to show for it.
Thanks for sharing this, having had a tiny bit of experience with people operating in bad faith, I think I can at least imagine what you are going through. Then again, maybe not, I didn't put a fraction of what you did into this project. That said, I am terribly sad about this and hope that it is all resolved in your favor, with you, KE Arms, and Brownells recouping all of your legal expenses as well. The only complaint I have about my KP-15 is the price of ammo and the fact that I am not as good a shot as I would like to be. Please, please, do not give up either on this project on on InRange as a whole due to this. All good things are worth fighting for.
I really enjoy videos like this, because if nothing else, morbid curiosity fuels a desire to know the back door dealings of various people. I am constantly amazed at the depths that some people will go to tear down others, with GWACS being a prime example of that phenomena. Long live KE Arms, and long live the KP-15
This is why we don't see the exponential advancement in technology we should be seeing. They bury the ideas and people who think them in litigation before they even get going. Greed sucks.
What makes you think that firearms technology should be advancing exponentially? Very few technologies have ever advanced exponentially for any length of time. Semiconductor technology is the canonical exceptional example, and even it has been running up against the physical limits on Moore’s Law for more than a decade now, so exponential advance in semiconductors is a thing of the past. In a mature technology like firearms, relatively small, incremental advances are really about the most that you can rationally expect.
Gotta love how GWACS thanked Inrange for helping them ship all the stock on their store online but stated they wouldn't be doing more. Then of course once they see it wasnt a flash in the pan and they see KE arms and Karl saying okay we'll make our own and improve it if you're not gonna make more. Suddenly fuck Inrange and all those that helped put us on the map.
I was excited by your ideas when the first video hit web. I tried to purchase a GWACS receiver for a couple of years without success (and I'm glad I failed). I ended up purchasing two of the KE lowers, one of which I built into a lightweight rifle for my daughter, the other of which remains mine. Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue. I think I just made up that little rhyme, but if someone came up with it before me, please don't sue me! Anyway, great explanation and I'm really sorry that all involved had to go through this nonsense and attempted legal extortion.
This reminds me of Men at Work getting sued over putting the Kookaburra melody in Down Under by a company that acquired the rights to Kookaburra *years* after Down Under was released
I have watched you for a long time now. From the start I feel you were a good honest man, with good intentions. All these years later those feelings have not changed. Hope this bs ends soon. Best of luck.
I've always liked you and your personality, but the fact that you made a shady legal team rage quit is amazing! I'm so sorry you had to go through this nonsense sir, but I am grateful that they had to be on the other end of your extensive historical firearms knowledge. I'm with Shakespeare on the lawyers question.
It would be funny to see those up tight $ loving lawyers think they had something put together then meet Karl the Uber gun nut inform them how all their special thingies are forgotten antiques! History! “No that’s from 1870 !!” Let’s make the stock grind coffee!!
Thank you for the information on the WWSD project. I am a proud owner of a KP-15 FDE lower from KE Arms. I have watched your videos on the WWSD project and decided to build my own. It's sad to see a company stoop so low to sue for things they had no hand in on designing or anything. I am a fan of KE Arms products and to help with this fight I will buy all my parts for any project I am working on for them. I can't do much but I will do what I can. I wish you all victory in this fight and to see KP-15 and the WWDS project flourish.
Sounds exactly like when rights to the Santa Cruz Operation were acquired, including the rights to some versions of Xenix and Unix, and tried to collect royalties from Linux users since Linux was inspired by Unix. A lot of court cases. appeals, and legal fees later it was determined that Novell, a company SCO once had a partnership with and acquired rights from when that partnership broke off, was still the owner of the underlying rights involved and had no interest in pursuing claims against Linux users.
The mere suggestion that gun control advocates could interfere with the production of firearms by acquiring intellectual property and then suing companies with similar property in order to limit or halt production is truly chilling.
@@fronthole_guacamole There's measures for that. Counter-Suit or outright dismissal of the case. If you bring a frivilous suit there's some pretty hefty penalties.
Have motions to dismiss for failure to state a case not been heard? The first thing I would've insisted that the defense counsel to do would be to file motions on the exact things you articulated for dismissal - They don't own any of the IP they claim to own, can't prove otherwise, and the "IP" wasn't IP in the first place since it was never patented. I can't imagine *any* federal circuit court allowing this to go to deposition and this long if the arguments had been made properly to dismiss because they have *NO* standing. Even in civil court, there is no damage for GWACS to claim.
@@blueishgreen76 I do, however that there have been depositions suggests either no pre-evidentiary dismissal motion was filed, or that it was denied, which is why I asked the question. Also "$200,000 in legal costs" is pretty extreme. Yes, it can be expensive, but I think you're talking about 1/10th that cost for a dismissal at the initial pleadings stage. We're talking IP law here, not criminal or personal injury litigation. The "value" of this type of litigation doesn't justify any party spending $200k just in pre-trial activities.
I looked it up. GWACS basically dropped all the claims except those related to violating NDA contracts. Because NDA's cover sensitive information that is not already subject to patents, copyrights, or trademarks, GWACS didn't have to give any evidence they could prove such ownership. Breach of an NDA is a valid cause of action, and your average Federal judge is ignorant of STEM matters to stop stupid IP claims before discovery.
@@blueishgreen76 I would dksagee that most Federal Judges are ignorant on STEM when it comes to contract law and IP-related law since that is a HUGE part of their day-to-day caseload. I still don't see and answer to my original question though because if this is now a "broke NDA", aka contract dispute, why hasn't GWACS been ordered to show proof of a valid NDA (signed by all named parties) as part of the initial pleadings? Look at any contract lawsuit and the contract itself is almost always required as part of the initial pleading because the plaintiff has to prove they were damaged. If they didn't include an NDA and they were demanded to provide one by the defendants or the court, this would be over since there is almost certainly not one.
Hey Carl how dare you go into a deposition armed with intelligence and facts, that is not the way the game is played. You should have been scared by their tactics. You provoked them into beating a hasty retreat. I love it.
To be honest, half way through before you mentioned the court case I said to myself "They are going to pop up with a dodgy lawsuit and squeeze you guys for just enough so settling was just a bit cheaper than defending the claim", I didn't see the rich arsehole doing it to screw you over for what is effectively shits and giggles.
It sucks that you all have to go through all of this bs. WWSD was such a cool project and I liked seeing how you were all working together to make a viable product out of it even though I could have never gotten my hands on one.
Totally understand why you didn't share this information previously but its great to finally have some background info on what's been going on. Thanks for everything you do!
Thanks for telling the tale and fighting the fight. I built several WWSD type rifles a few years back, Faxon pencil barrels, CF FF HGs, carbine lowers with Rogers Superstocs. Came in at 6 lbs 2 oz, great handling rifles.
This is the sort of stuff that makes me lose faith in the system. You have one side who are trying to create and innovate and another side that just has a bunch of money. It feels like our system doesn't reward the creators but instead those with the money to grease the courts.
Wait. You had faith in the system? Sorry if I chuckle over here. The system is run by people, who are fundamentally inept, corrupt, and easily-steered with emotions and greed.
Nothing to say besides wishing you best of luck. As soon as I can get my hands on a wwsd here in Italy I will absolutely do so, because I love the concept and now because I’ll know that in doing so I’m supporting your battle to get justice for yourself and for a company that’s truly innovative and deserving. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for clarifying what this was all about. Good luck to you and I hope your efforts succeed and it just ends up costing GWACS and their investors a lot of money and time for no gain.
I wonder if the persons who bought KP15s, KP9s, WWSD rifles, and other products that were affected by this misuse of the legal system could form a class action suit against both gwacs and the "angle" investor for the recovery of the increase of the retail price paid?
Anyone who can prove they had the desire to purchase one plus the financial means to do so, can exhibit financial harm from increased cost, and that is the necessary legal evidence for standing to make suit. Then, that person has to be able to *afford* legal costs. *If* there were several or many such suits, then these could file to be combined in to a class action; however, though this would combine the legal costs, it would be a *_single suit_* and can be defeated as such. Defending against fifty or five hundred or five thousand _individual_ suits would be *much* more of an obstacle!
I live in Australia, own no guns, haven't watched any of the WWSD videos, and still found this utterly compelling. Best of luck for a speedy and just resolution!
Well I wish you and everybody involved with the WWSD project well and hope you succeed in the long run. I can only imagine how much of a shine was taken off the project by these nefarious antics.
Guess I just gotta get another wwsd lower then! I love my wwsd rifle, and I hope y'all gain more support. This sounds like they made a deal with a devil to recoup their losses to me after failing as a company, and while I know it is a pain I would file a counter suit againts the agitators if financially possible, but you know what is best for you. Anyways, good luck to you Karl, and all of the project members man!
I always wondered how GWACS would react to the KP-15. Today I got my answer. And the answer is, as you said, a grift. I’m sorry you have to go through this.
Kind of amazing that GWACS didn't see that coming, injection moulding tools have a limited number of pressings before they are junk - especially when you're using fibre filled polymers (which I assume these lowers are). I guess either 1. they were unaware of how expensive it is to have injection moulding tools manufactured and/or didn't have the money or will to reinvest, or 2. they didn't get the drawings and engineering specification to make a new tool when theirs wore out, so would have had to start from scratch. The latter seems quite likely to me due to their comments about "finalising" the design of the mk 3. It's also pretty amazing that they've got this far with the lawsuit given that they likely don't have any IP rights over the part they own the tools for, let alone a completely re-engineered design. The suit is obviously malicious and baseless. Hopefully you guys can recover the legal fees once this finally falls over.
There is also possibility #3. GWACS may have been a tax scam that got caught flat footed when their years of inventory evaporated overnight. That sort of manufacturing can allow accountants to shift a lot of money around.
@@blueishgreen76 How does that work, keep a bunch of parts in stock, sell them gradually, but claim your running expenses are greater than they are? If it was a scheme of some sort, it makes sense that they'd be peeved about it.
@@Chlorate299 One " leagal" way is to keep it as a small business elegeable for cash accounting on inventory that let's you write off the full cost of production in the first year deferring taxes until the product is sold years later. (The IRS doesn't like this and has clamped down recently. ) You can also go after friendly "small business" grants, tax breaks, and loans that make the business cheap to operate. Obviously there is a lot more one can do if they resort to outright fraud. No idea what is exactly in play here, but "group of investors" and a company sitting around for years treading water, only to disappear when on the cusp of being profitable does scream tax shelter.
@@WJS774 The most charitable read I can take is the that guy who actually ran the company was a ne'er-do-well schemer that didn't fully appreciate all of his "investors" were only interested in the tax write-off, and was legitimately surprised none of them were interested in reinvesting in a real product. Then one of the investor's got greedy when they realized, belatedly, how much money was actually at stake. From what I can see about the the chartable foundation of the financier of this debacle, he knows more than a thing or two about tax avoidance.
I dig what you guys do. The channel is entertaining and incredibly interesting. Though I’m not a huge AR15 guy as it is. Had several over the years and always sold them to fund other systems. But I think the WWSD and CDR are unique takes on the platform. I was holding out on another 5.56mm until Kalashnikov USA rolls out their AK101. But after seeing this video and knowing the sales proceeds are going to legal defense I put the CDR at the top of my list. Stay strong and keep on keeping on guys! What you do is much appreciated!
The most interesting Inrange ever. A real insight into American firearm industry politics. I hope you succeed. Respect from Australia. PS: I don't suppose when gwacs are beaten you can market a GWAC memorial edition to kick their corporate memory into their grave?
Patent trolls. The business model, is to coerce payment for something that is legally disputable. Whether the legal suit ultimately ends up having any merit in a court isn't terribly relevant. As long as time and resources are tied up in fighting the vexatious claim, then there is an incentive to just reach a settlement, to make the problem go away. It is intimidation tactics, and bullying, and opportunism. Blackmail - essentially. But it is activity that is also hardly a secret or a surprise. It is so common - it is more a case of wondering why anyone would be surprised if it happened to them. It is now pretty much a case of, the cost of doing business in America.
I understand the frustration and blinding hot rage that comes with a situation like this. It burned the heart out of me and took many years to get the enthusiasm and joy back. Thankfully I did. Gain strength from friends and family brother.
One of the worse things of the US system is the ease of stupid law suits. That court doesn't have a review system to identify frivolous cases. This case is a poster child for it and seems to encourage a couter suit for harrassment. Especially after his comments.
Karl i just wanted to say that I made my own version of a WWSD rifle before I heard of this channel or the project. It used a lightweight AL receiver instead of a polymer one as I did not know they existed at the time. My inspiration came from an old TV show I saw about a decade prior to the build. I actually came across your channel as a result of doing research for that project. Keep at it Karl and best of luck. Hopefully one day soon we won't have to worry about lawsuits like this.
Could they be counter sued for business damges/ business interference? Also could you/they set up a gofundme for the current lawsuit? I'm sure there would be many people out ther who would support you/them against this and at least take some of the financial pressures off.
I bought the kp 15 complete lower. It's an awesome product. I really appreciate all you guys have done to make it possible. I wish y'all the best of luck dealing with those low life idiots.
What a pity companies and individuals like this spend so much time and effort trying to disrupt and destroy rather than do something constructive. Always easier to tear down rather than build something worthwhile, pretty sad really.
They probably went bankrupt, didn’t have the cash on hand to design/create a new mold, but when the owner/s saw KE arms coming out with a monolith polymer lower, they reestablished the company with a skeleton crew to add some legitimacy to their lawsuit.
I appreciate you being candid about the situation and history. It’s hard to understand why someone would even begin a lawsuit from such a tenuous position, that’s the USA though.
Personally I think that Oppenheimer used "I don't wanna sell them scary assault weapons" as an attempt to gain sympathy from the court, banking on them being anti gunners if I heard right and he was a prior investor. Alternatively he could have had a change of heart however. Either way still a shit bag.
I think he might have actually shot himself in the foot right there (maybe somewhere else next time). The suit is about the design / rights to produce the lowers, and implied loss of profit due to someone else designing something to fill the void. I think saying that will actually make his case harder because he can't claim he suffered financial damages because he intentionally buried the company before KE produced anything like it. That also gives him no gives him no advantage in the actual lawsuit because he's suing over the design. If anything it might strengthen KE arms case because he clearly let slip that the new design has no effect on his business in the future because he's already abandoned that market
Honestly i was skeptical of polymer lowers, but for a few hundred bucks ($125-300) for KE polymer lowers and nearly $500 and up for metal lowers, I finally tried them. I can say happily that if you're on the fence you should try them, the several I've bought have been excellent. The only issues I've seen are the mold surface finish especially under the trigger guard, and I don't personally like taking the rear pin out (by the pistol grip) therefore leaving all the weight on the front pin (by the handguard). I only do this with ARs to fast check or clean them. Perhaps that is stupidity on my end, but otherwise very happy with them and I hope they will continue to refine and upgrade their lowers.
"OK, so we're defunct. How much money would it take to create a good replacement mold for the old Cav Arms mold?" "$200k+" "Sunuvabitch! [...] If KE Arms don't just cut us in, we could sue them and take their mold for
Very fair analysis, what a bunch of turds. It's also possible the investor wants infringe on anything KE and CAV related to then claim it's theirs and startup a new company to develop something for L E or Military markets. Lasty, I had an old CAV Arms lower, can't remember if it was first or second generation. Wish I never got rid of it now. Hope it works out in the long run as I wouldn't mind getting the new WWSD from Brownells or build my own. Keep up the great work and content.
KE arms should make a new model number receiver: 20-CV-0341-CVE-CDL, the case number of this lawsuit. Mark it up $20 or whatever to be used to cover legal fees or buy champagne. I’ll buy one. Or more.
I remember following the project, but could never find a GWACS lower in stock. Kinda absurd that they let their business lapse and are now trying to fight you guys for it.
I'm sorry for this unduly mess and ... I must say you are a most excellent communicator. You managed to explain such a convoluted story in an interesting, engaging and light way manner. Your work in the community is very much appreciated and valued but ... Have you ever thought of working for the History Channel?
Karl you have my support, for what is worth. I have been with you on the journey from 2017 to today. I built 4 WWSD 2017 rifles and 3 WWSD2020 rifles and purchased a WWSD2020 built. I thank you for your efforts and KE arms for their efforts. I would smile if this investor and his team was ground into the dirt but the very system they abuse.
F that guy. I don’t need another rifle but when I hear of such actions from a wealthy “businessman” buying a WWSD is very attractive. My own form of activism is to exercise my rights.
Sadly it seems the strategy GWACS uses has devolved into "throw money at it until it goes away". I guess it really shows how skewed our system is for money.
I'm super happy with the KE arms lower. I got it because it was priced right and to use for a spare/loaner upper. I am now convinced that it's a totally legit lower and the WWSD project is worth fighting for. Keeping your fighting rifle light is rare in the world of IR lasers and LPVO's but I think it's really a game changer.
The A1 length of pull being proprietary is one HELL of a strategy.
I mean, it's called the A1 length of pull. Not the CAV-15 length of pull...
I guess it would fall under "Bold move Cotton, let's see how it works out"
It was a stupid strategy. You can’t claim ownership of someone else’s intellectual property. If anything, the A1 LOP intellectual property belongs to Eugene Stoner, Armalite, and Colt. Even they don’t own it anymore because the AR15/M16 family of weapons became public domain long ago. Their entire argument fell apart. The lawsuit was a desperate attempt to make some money for doing absolutely nothing.
I don’t know how you can own a measurement.
@@con6lex tbf, we live in world were I or a company could own your DNA, and could sue you for trying toy use yourself commercially.
KE Arms will have a statement in the forthcoming days
I will be making my declaration to the court as part of our motion for summary judgment along with all of its evidentiary documents public. This includes all relevant contracts and NDAs.
Best of luck Phagan
Hope this gets settled quick!
Reeks of greed on the part of the GWACS group attempting to extract more wealth from a product they failed to exploit themselves, like the groups that acquired & ran companies like Remington & Colt into the ground for their & their investors’ benefit.
Probably bought up by an investor, maybe in the hope to actually make more lowers, saw that the mold was really shot, or at least in need of a major refurb and then wanted to cut his losses with a frivolous lawsuit and out of court settlement.
That's capitalism for ya. If it's more profitable TO THE INVESTORS to run a company into the ground, waste labor and tooling, harm customers and workers, you're SUPPOSED to do that.
Did you watch to the end? This isn't about greed. Its about gun control on the part of the investor.
@@vigunfighter he’s only a single member of the group, plus Karl stated it’s a *possible* motive for this.
reeks more of an antigunner with an agenda and people without 2 pennies to rub together getting a paycheck
At least you guys never took a preorder on a product that you were unsure would ever be a reality.
Nope, never did.
@@InrangeTv I can respect that.
Did someone do that?
@@dragon3allzdeep325 HMG gun works with the repro stg 44s
@@dragon3allzdeep325 There was also at least two purported manufacturers of Bren 10's that took down payments and the more recent Sol Invictus AA-12 debacle.
It seems that as a result of the investor's statements in his deposition, you could sue him for legal expenses incurred defending against this frivolous lawsuit, as well as for financial damage to the project and all those involved.
Its US, he would need to sleep on money to do that...
@@bBlaF In France, this is called the condemnation to costs (condamnation aux dépens), it'is not systematic, it is the court that decides. And it can be really really expensive.
@@paranoiia8 Not necessarily with the initial copyright claims this suit is going to be in Federal Court where you can ask for Rule 11 sanctions for frivolous claims and lawsuits brought for improper motives which this certainly seems to be. Heck the copyright act includes a fee shifting provision at the discretion of the presiding judge, though I am not sure if the last is available if the copyright claims are dropped.
The English rule where the loser pays for the legal costs of the prevailing party can also be a little overrated as you still have to fund the lawsuit yourself and hope you get some money back at the end of the case.
I was thinking the same thing their frivolous lawsuit hampered the marketing of the project imagine how much better the WWSD would have sold if it had received more attention in the mainstream market
This times a few million aught to do it.
"just because youre right doesnt mean youre going to have justice in this system. justice is not what the legal system does; it does legal stuff" the truth is often painful. thanks Karl, good luck
Gonna remember this line forever! Truer words were never spoken.
No patent, all prior art, but GWACS still can drain KD Arms' coffers due to a ridiculously expensive court system. Many such cases.
The only net sum gain will be for the lawyer's.
Like SLAPP suits but with companies.
You don't need to win you just need more money, the system is broken.
The thing I can't get my head around is how a defunct company can sue anybody. Is this a particularity of US law?
Or is it GWACS creditors bringing the suit?
Because for a long time companies like KE Arms are the exception, companies that actually invest in a project, take risks, and reap rewards and losses accordingly. Corporate America is, for the most part, a gang of rent seeking grifters that use the courts and lobbysts to siphon off the last penny out of society in general and individual consumers in particular. Certain epithets come to mind but I will leave them unexpressed, they are easy to guess.
Eat the rich
@@beansofproduction No, they taste horrible.
Yeah, I remember the detailed videos done by IR & SR in the design and manufacturing of the KP15 lower. Incredibly complicated to get something like that “right” in function and able to be repeatedly manufactured.
@@scipio10000 hunger is the best sauce
@@george5156 sorry there is no sauce thay will make me eat turds. What you need to do with the rich is of a different nature, and to be clear I refer to their power to rule the lives of others.
Description is brutally on point
Godspeed to you and everyone else behind WWSD
Strap-on spelled backwards is no-parts
Such wisdom.
oh
LOL
Refreshing :D
Blessed are we to have such a poet and scholar in our midst
I was really starting to wonder why I wasn’t hearing much about Kp15s or the WWSD project. Sad to hear there’s people in the industry causing trouble for people who helped them and people who were on the same team. It is odd that they’d continue pursuing the lawsuit with their current investor. Thank you for the update
People in many industries don’t see each other as “on the same team”. Even Karl acknowledges this to an extent when he describes the concerns he had with getting all the vendors to work together in the first place.
It's not odd at all. the current investor is against civilian owership of ARs and sees this as a way to virtue signal and help keep ARs off the market.
@@vigunfighter I just feel it's odd gwacs would be partnered up with an antigunnner but I guess whatever it takes to get that money
To me it seems that GWACS we never about anything else than "whatever it takes to get that money". I'd hesitate to even call them a part of the industry. They just bought some molds as an investment.
@@MarvinCZ Yeah the thing they are named after is all they cared about.
Thanks a lot for letting us know and speaking out about this issue with GWACS. I believe that it's really important to have a set of certain values like honesty and respect. It seems like more and more companies don't follow such values anymore and that's why I really want to show you my support in this way. I already bought and WWSD rifle and will consider supporting you financially in the future. Please never give up these values and rest assured that you have people standing behind you. People who you can reach out to if you really need in case this or any other legal issue should worsen in the future.
The moment he said “Reed Oppenheimer” I knew what was up. He’s been involved in thinly veiled social engineering forever. At first glance, his causes all sound charitable and flowery. But even a cursory look shows they think peasants should never be allowed to be self sufficient and Certainly not armed. They need to be ruled, after all. They just shouldn’t know about it.
This would be the most ridiculously Anti-Gun strategy. Stopping AR manufacturing one plastic lower at a time. That Guy's not Anti-Gun, he certainly says he is, and supplies money to Schumer (who's not a true believer in anything himself), but I think he doesn't care one way ore the other. He wants just to scam some money out of KE Arms. The worst thing about those type of people is that they don't have any values except their own financial gain.
Predatory litigation by wealthy grifters, seems to be going around right now. I really enjoy the project, hope you guys come out on top.
Slapp suit? I don’t know all your details in this case, but you could arguably pursue a countersuit if your counsel feels they did know better but pursued the suit using the court as a cudgel. All ya gotta do is show material harm (lost sales, un-actualized sales may count) and a few emails from their counsel saying this isn’t viable (discovery bait) . I totally get if you/the others don’t want to get tied further in lawsuits, but if nothing else I hope gwacs gets what they deserve- absolutely nothing.
They’re not trying to muzzle Karl or Fagan. They just want all their money.
@@windowdoog is it Karl or Carl?
@@george5156 Karl.
Not all states have anti slap laws
If you sue to regain monetary losses will the settlement, if won, ever be paid? I know having a new mold cut and the tech package to produce the product is expensive. Could you realize a profit if you started from scratch with a design all your own?
Not gona lie, the "drama" behind some of these businesses is absolutely absurd. Almost kinda reminds me of how lithium based batteries were developed. Super long story short, Sony wanted lighter batteries but no battery manufacturer wanted to make them cuz it could compete with the old style of batteries. So Sony said screw it and built their own battery factory so they could get the parts they wanted. If existing firms aren't willing to meet market demand, that just leaves open market sectors for exploitation.
It's hillarious how much stuff Sony does, much of which has no relation each other.
My old man used to work for a company that was involved R&D for lithium batteries in industrial usage, but their CEO was much interested in another project that was a personal mission of his, so all the funding went that way, that project ultimately bankrupted them.
@@nonyabisness6306 sometimes in order for something to get done you have to do it yourself. Sony is a tech company and they dabble in literally everything technology
I’ve watched this video once already. I just had to view it again thanks to “Runkle of the Bailey”, a Canadian law channel. They just eviscerated a gag order motion by GWACS in the case against KE Arms. One thing the lawyer brought up was not only did GWACS attempt to gag InRange, but they essentially compelled the judge to watch Karl’s video which did an effective job of adding another nail into the coffin of this specious lawsuit.
Since the request for the gag order stated the number of views this video had, I felt it only appropriate that I watch it one more time to add to the view count.
same, Bud
Damn Karl, I'm sorry this is/was happening. What a giant pain in the ass, unfortunately this is the most American thing ever. Nothing to do with the fact it includes anything to do with firearms, but the fact that as soon as the little guy starts to make a profit off something the big guy overlooked the deep pockets let hell rain down. Also including the fact that the deep pockets keep people from innovating, we all know this is happening daily in all sorts of avenues of business, ones that would probably have advanced us past a lot of the issues we're currently fighting about.
I'm not an AR guy, but I've loved this series from the beginning, just seemed like a cool different take on home builds. With all the hold ups in the long term series I half wondered if something like this happened.
Keep up the fight Karl.
Did you watch to the end? The investor is anti AR and against civilian ownership of military style rifles. He also said he had no interest in making them. This is about gun control. not profit.
@@vigunfighter I don't think we ought to take the investor on his word. GWACS seemed happy enough to "work out a deal" before they actually sued.
This just smells like extortion.
The investor is probably working for one of those globalist organizations that’s anti freedom.
@@airminer I'm with you. All the anti-AR rhetoric in response to questions about his involvement in the product reeks of him trying to dress up his grifting as something "moral" now that he's being called out on it.
Thank you for addressing this. I happen to come across the court filing during a google search fest when I was just trying to read up on development and what happened to GWACS. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I’m not well versed in legal speak so I didn’t have to time or energy to translate it into regular speak. You laid it out in a way that was easy to understand, so thank you for that. I hope you, KE Arms and Brownells prevail and get GWACS and this Oppenheimer guy to back off and go back to the hole that they crawled out of to file this frivolous crap. Good luck and hopefully it’ll be over soon.
I recently purchased my complete rifle from Brownell‘s this summer. I just completed putting it through sight in at the range this weekend. This makes me really proud that I was able to support the right people and businesses that are trying to make this the product it deserves to be. The rifle is amazing, and I look forward to being able to support you more in the future!
Thank you karl for speaking out and keeping us abreast , this goes to show that just because a company may manufacture firearms does not mean that either them or there investors have the consumers in mind and that we need to be more aware of the goings ons in these companies not only for ourselves but for our rights and our futures
I saw the title and went "oh no, they're suing for invented IP rights"....
There is an underlying, fundamental dishonesty in firearms operations as a whole. Historically, and through today. For every good actor out there there are plenty of bad ones that say all the good things, but never deliver or just outright cheat and steal. People involved in firearms typically have a defiant personality which allows them to suspend disbelief and doubt, especially when spoken to in the same language. Same with other devout believers--tell them what they want to hear and you can't keep the money away. Sometimes failure to deliever or outright fraud is just being over ones head and not knowing it. However, when others also suspend their belief in proper business practices you just end up in an echo chamber with little to show for it.
This isn't limited to firearm industry but more or less all industries have large amounts of bs grifters doing this kind of patent trolling
@@marcogenovesi8570 The masters being Amazon. Patent and poison cash injection specialists, par excellence.
Thanks for sharing this, having had a tiny bit of experience with people operating in bad faith, I think I can at least imagine what you are going through. Then again, maybe not, I didn't put a fraction of what you did into this project.
That said, I am terribly sad about this and hope that it is all resolved in your favor, with you, KE Arms, and Brownells recouping all of your legal expenses as well. The only complaint I have about my KP-15 is the price of ammo and the fact that I am not as good a shot as I would like to be.
Please, please, do not give up either on this project on on InRange as a whole due to this. All good things are worth fighting for.
I really enjoy videos like this, because if nothing else, morbid curiosity fuels a desire to know the back door dealings of various people. I am constantly amazed at the depths that some people will go to tear down others, with GWACS being a prime example of that phenomena.
Long live KE Arms, and long live the KP-15
This is why we don't see the exponential advancement in technology we should be seeing. They bury the ideas and people who think them in litigation before they even get going. Greed sucks.
this doesn't seem to be greed, it seems to be shady investor helicopter money into a political purpose against the people
What makes you think that firearms technology should be advancing exponentially? Very few technologies have ever advanced exponentially for any length of time. Semiconductor technology is the canonical exceptional example, and even it has been running up against the physical limits on Moore’s Law for more than a decade now, so exponential advance in semiconductors is a thing of the past. In a mature technology like firearms, relatively small, incremental advances are really about the most that you can rationally expect.
@@markhamstra1083 well you've said it all
@@markhamstra1083 people turn to easy answers, e.g. grand conspiracies, when it's the easier answer.
@@markhamstra1083 technology doesnt advance with age, it does with resource investment, Paulie Walnuts is correct
Oppenheimer you say? He has become death, destroyer of monolithic polymer lowers
Gotta love how GWACS thanked Inrange for helping them ship all the stock on their store online but stated they wouldn't be doing more. Then of course once they see it wasnt a flash in the pan and they see KE arms and Karl saying okay we'll make our own and improve it if you're not gonna make more. Suddenly fuck Inrange and all those that helped put us on the map.
I was excited by your ideas when the first video hit web. I tried to purchase a GWACS receiver for a couple of years without success (and I'm glad I failed). I ended up purchasing two of the KE lowers, one of which I built into a lightweight rifle for my daughter, the other of which remains mine. Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue. I think I just made up that little rhyme, but if someone came up with it before me, please don't sue me! Anyway, great explanation and I'm really sorry that all involved had to go through this nonsense and attempted legal extortion.
This reminds me of Men at Work getting sued over putting the Kookaburra melody in Down Under by a company that acquired the rights to Kookaburra *years* after Down Under was released
I have watched you for a long time now. From the start I feel you were a good honest man, with good intentions. All these years later those feelings have not changed. Hope this bs ends soon. Best of luck.
Just came over from Runkle Of The Bailey, congrats on having the judge view your video.
An activist with too much money and a grifting company. Name a more iconic duo
Reasons you aren't allowed to be happy... and government.
I've always liked you and your personality, but the fact that you made a shady legal team rage quit is amazing! I'm so sorry you had to go through this nonsense sir, but I am grateful that they had to be on the other end of your extensive historical firearms knowledge. I'm with Shakespeare on the lawyers question.
It would be funny to see those up tight $ loving lawyers think they had something put together then meet Karl the Uber gun nut inform them how all their special thingies are forgotten antiques! History! “No that’s from 1870 !!” Let’s make the stock grind coffee!!
Thank you for the information on the WWSD project. I am a proud owner of a KP-15 FDE lower from KE Arms. I have watched your videos on the WWSD project and decided to build my own. It's sad to see a company stoop so low to sue for things they had no hand in on designing or anything. I am a fan of KE Arms products and to help with this fight I will buy all my parts for any project I am working on for them. I can't do much but I will do what I can. I wish you all victory in this fight and to see KP-15 and the WWDS project flourish.
Sounds exactly like when rights to the Santa Cruz Operation were acquired, including the rights to some versions of Xenix and Unix, and tried to collect royalties from Linux users since Linux was inspired by Unix. A lot of court cases. appeals, and legal fees later it was determined that Novell, a company SCO once had a partnership with and acquired rights from when that partnership broke off, was still the owner of the underlying rights involved and had no interest in pursuing claims against Linux users.
The mere suggestion that gun control advocates could interfere with the production of firearms by acquiring intellectual property and then suing companies with similar property in order to limit or halt production is truly chilling.
Generally they can't. There's protections that essentially say you can only defend those rights if you're actually servicing the market.
They didn't even acquire the IP - because there was no IP. It was 100% prior art. They acquired tooling.
It's also not the simplest explanation. This is obviously just about rent-seeking (aka greed).
@@fronthole_guacamole Exactly.
@@fronthole_guacamole There's measures for that. Counter-Suit or outright dismissal of the case.
If you bring a frivilous suit there's some pretty hefty penalties.
Have motions to dismiss for failure to state a case not been heard? The first thing I would've insisted that the defense counsel to do would be to file motions on the exact things you articulated for dismissal - They don't own any of the IP they claim to own, can't prove otherwise, and the "IP" wasn't IP in the first place since it was never patented. I can't imagine *any* federal circuit court allowing this to go to deposition and this long if the arguments had been made properly to dismiss because they have *NO* standing. Even in civil court, there is no damage for GWACS to claim.
You do realize that in our court system even a pre evidentiary dismissal can take up to 2 years and $200,000 in legal costs, right?
@@blueishgreen76 I do, however that there have been depositions suggests either no pre-evidentiary dismissal motion was filed, or that it was denied, which is why I asked the question. Also "$200,000 in legal costs" is pretty extreme. Yes, it can be expensive, but I think you're talking about 1/10th that cost for a dismissal at the initial pleadings stage. We're talking IP law here, not criminal or personal injury litigation. The "value" of this type of litigation doesn't justify any party spending $200k just in pre-trial activities.
I looked it up. GWACS basically dropped all the claims except those related to violating NDA contracts. Because NDA's cover sensitive information that is not already subject to patents, copyrights, or trademarks, GWACS didn't have to give any evidence they could prove such ownership. Breach of an NDA is a valid cause of action, and your average Federal judge is ignorant of STEM matters to stop stupid IP claims before discovery.
@@blueishgreen76 I would dksagee that most Federal Judges are ignorant on STEM when it comes to contract law and IP-related law since that is a HUGE part of their day-to-day caseload. I still don't see and answer to my original question though because if this is now a "broke NDA", aka contract dispute, why hasn't GWACS been ordered to show proof of a valid NDA (signed by all named parties) as part of the initial pleadings? Look at any contract lawsuit and the contract itself is almost always required as part of the initial pleading because the plaintiff has to prove they were damaged. If they didn't include an NDA and they were demanded to provide one by the defendants or the court, this would be over since there is almost certainly not one.
Hey Carl how dare you go into a deposition armed with intelligence and facts, that is not the way the game is played. You should have been scared by their tactics. You provoked them into beating a hasty retreat. I love it.
Thank you for sharing, Karl.
The transparency and spotlight on bad action is very much appreciated.
To be honest, half way through before you mentioned the court case I said to myself "They are going to pop up with a dodgy lawsuit and squeeze you guys for just enough so settling was just a bit cheaper than defending the claim", I didn't see the rich arsehole doing it to screw you over for what is effectively shits and giggles.
It's not shits and giggles. Watch the video again.
It's targeted anti duece alpha.
GWACS does truly suck! Why is GWACS trying to sue people over a weapons design that went into public domain long ago?
InRangeTV, thank you for your transparency. I look forward to seeing the product evolve and grow, once this is all behind us!
Ahahaha hahahahahahaha 😂
It sucks that you all have to go through all of this bs. WWSD was such a cool project and I liked seeing how you were all working together to make a viable product out of it even though I could have never gotten my hands on one.
Totally understand why you didn't share this information previously but its great to finally have some background info on what's been going on. Thanks for everything you do!
This is genuinely an insane story. I hope you end up on top of this, financially and legally.
Thanks for telling the tale and fighting the fight. I built several WWSD type rifles a few years back, Faxon pencil barrels, CF FF HGs, carbine lowers with Rogers Superstocs. Came in at 6 lbs 2 oz, great handling rifles.
This is the sort of stuff that makes me lose faith in the system. You have one side who are trying to create and innovate and another side that just has a bunch of money. It feels like our system doesn't reward the creators but instead those with the money to grease the courts.
That's because those with the money can influence (bribe) the lawmakers to tweak the system in their favour.
one could say this is how it always was
Always has been, always will be.
welcome to capitalism
Wait. You had faith in the system? Sorry if I chuckle over here. The system is run by people, who are fundamentally inept, corrupt, and easily-steered with emotions and greed.
Nothing to say besides wishing you best of luck. As soon as I can get my hands on a wwsd here in Italy I will absolutely do so, because I love the concept and now because I’ll know that in doing so I’m supporting your battle to get justice for yourself and for a company that’s truly innovative and deserving. Keep up the good work!
Sounds like their lawyers were just trying to demonstrate their knowledge of (or lack their of) for future ATF positions.
Thanks for clarifying what this was all about. Good luck to you and I hope your efforts succeed and it just ends up costing GWACS and their investors a lot of money and time for no gain.
I wonder if the persons who bought KP15s, KP9s, WWSD rifles, and other products that were affected by this misuse of the legal system could form a class action suit against both gwacs and the "angle" investor for the recovery of the increase of the retail price paid?
Anyone who can prove they had the desire to purchase one plus the financial means to do so, can exhibit financial harm from increased cost, and that is the necessary legal evidence for standing to make suit.
Then, that person has to be able to *afford* legal costs. *If* there were several or many such suits, then these could file to be combined in to a class action; however, though this would combine the legal costs, it would be a *_single suit_* and can be defeated as such. Defending against fifty or five hundred or five thousand _individual_ suits would be *much* more of an obstacle!
I live in Australia, own no guns, haven't watched any of the WWSD videos, and still found this utterly compelling.
Best of luck for a speedy and just resolution!
The wwsd project was one hell of a journey, if you're into light functional carbines, it's worth a watch
My desire for a WWSD2020 rifle is now significantly stronger... Just need the money...
You made lawyers rage quit you mad lad I love you!
Well I wish you and everybody involved with the WWSD project well and hope you succeed in the long run. I can only imagine how much of a shine was taken off the project by these nefarious antics.
Guess I just gotta get another wwsd lower then! I love my wwsd rifle, and I hope y'all gain more support. This sounds like they made a deal with a devil to recoup their losses to me after failing as a company, and while I know it is a pain I would file a counter suit againts the agitators if financially possible, but you know what is best for you. Anyways, good luck to you Karl, and all of the project members man!
I always wondered how GWACS would react to the KP-15. Today I got my answer. And the answer is, as you said, a grift. I’m sorry you have to go through this.
Kind of amazing that GWACS didn't see that coming, injection moulding tools have a limited number of pressings before they are junk - especially when you're using fibre filled polymers (which I assume these lowers are).
I guess either 1. they were unaware of how expensive it is to have injection moulding tools manufactured and/or didn't have the money or will to reinvest, or 2. they didn't get the drawings and engineering specification to make a new tool when theirs wore out, so would have had to start from scratch. The latter seems quite likely to me due to their comments about "finalising" the design of the mk 3.
It's also pretty amazing that they've got this far with the lawsuit given that they likely don't have any IP rights over the part they own the tools for, let alone a completely re-engineered design. The suit is obviously malicious and baseless.
Hopefully you guys can recover the legal fees once this finally falls over.
There is also possibility #3. GWACS may have been a tax scam that got caught flat footed when their years of inventory evaporated overnight. That sort of manufacturing can allow accountants to shift a lot of money around.
@@blueishgreen76 How does that work, keep a bunch of parts in stock, sell them gradually, but claim your running expenses are greater than they are?
If it was a scheme of some sort, it makes sense that they'd be peeved about it.
@@Chlorate299 One " leagal" way is to keep it as a small business elegeable for cash accounting on inventory that let's you write off the full cost of production in the first year deferring taxes until the product is sold years later. (The IRS doesn't like this and has clamped down recently. ) You can also go after friendly "small business" grants, tax breaks, and loans that make the business cheap to operate. Obviously there is a lot more one can do if they resort to outright fraud.
No idea what is exactly in play here, but "group of investors" and a company sitting around for years treading water, only to disappear when on the cusp of being profitable does scream tax shelter.
@@blueishgreen76 Especially since they didn't design the product, they bought the tooling. That seems consistent to me.
@@WJS774 The most charitable read I can take is the that guy who actually ran the company was a ne'er-do-well schemer that didn't fully appreciate all of his "investors" were only interested in the tax write-off, and was legitimately surprised none of them were interested in reinvesting in a real product. Then one of the investor's got greedy when they realized, belatedly, how much money was actually at stake.
From what I can see about the the chartable foundation of the financier of this debacle, he knows more than a thing or two about tax avoidance.
Geez, what a mess and a legal nightmare. The judicial system is messed up.
I dig what you guys do. The channel is entertaining and incredibly interesting. Though I’m not a huge AR15 guy as it is. Had several over the years and always sold them to fund other systems. But I think the WWSD and CDR are unique takes on the platform. I was holding out on another 5.56mm until Kalashnikov USA rolls out their AK101. But after seeing this video and knowing the sales proceeds are going to legal defense I put the CDR at the top of my list. Stay strong and keep on keeping on guys! What you do is much appreciated!
To think That a Anti gun millionaire would squander thousands of dollars, if not millions to sabotage a gun manufacturer. 🤔 in this day in age, 100%
Not many things are as dangerous as the wealthy with an agenda.
Michael Bloomberg, George Soros...
Best of luck, sir. Some people do actually suck.
I hope this gets straightened out, I'd really love a WWSD carbine.
Most court documents are a matter of public record. Could you possibly provide those in the video description? It might be a real value added.
The most interesting Inrange ever. A real insight into American firearm industry politics. I hope you succeed. Respect from Australia.
PS: I don't suppose when gwacs are beaten you can market a GWAC memorial edition to kick their corporate memory into their grave?
Patent trolls.
The business model, is to coerce payment for something that is legally disputable.
Whether the legal suit ultimately ends up having any merit in a court isn't terribly relevant.
As long as time and resources are tied up in fighting the vexatious claim, then there is an incentive to just reach a settlement, to make the problem go away.
It is intimidation tactics, and bullying, and opportunism.
Blackmail - essentially.
But it is activity that is also hardly a secret or a surprise.
It is so common - it is more a case of wondering why anyone would be surprised if it happened to them.
It is now pretty much a case of, the cost of doing business in America.
What a ridiculous situation! My condolences. Hope you win out in the end. With costs. And that the end is not all that far away.
Any hope of a counter suit for damages and costs? (In theory not specifics)
I understand the frustration and blinding hot rage that comes with a situation like this. It burned the heart out of me and took many years to get the enthusiasm and joy back. Thankfully I did. Gain strength from friends and family brother.
One of the worse things of the US system is the ease of stupid law suits. That court doesn't have a review system to identify frivolous cases. This case is a poster child for it and seems to encourage a couter suit for harrassment. Especially after his comments.
Karl i just wanted to say that I made my own version of a WWSD rifle before I heard of this channel or the project. It used a lightweight AL receiver instead of a polymer one as I did not know they existed at the time. My inspiration came from an old TV show I saw about a decade prior to the build. I actually came across your channel as a result of doing research for that project.
Keep at it Karl and best of luck. Hopefully one day soon we won't have to worry about lawsuits like this.
Scenario #4 : Dudes named Oppenheimer just want to see the world burn
Unfortunately I suspect that the world will burn
Thanks for doing all this. I bought the WWSD and the civilian defense rifle thanks to you’re hard work.
Could they be counter sued for business damges/ business interference? Also could you/they set up a gofundme for the current lawsuit? I'm sure there would be many people out ther who would support you/them against this and at least take some of the financial pressures off.
Thanks for coming out with this, Karl. Good luck in your fight against the anti-gunners.
I bought the kp 15 complete lower. It's an awesome product. I really appreciate all you guys have done to make it possible. I wish y'all the best of luck dealing with those low life idiots.
What a pity companies and individuals like this spend so much time and effort trying to disrupt and destroy rather than do something constructive. Always easier to tear down rather than build something worthwhile, pretty sad really.
They probably went bankrupt, didn’t have the cash on hand to design/create a new mold, but when the owner/s saw KE arms coming out with a monolith polymer lower, they reestablished the company with a skeleton crew to add some legitimacy to their lawsuit.
Re-watching from Ian Runkle's video, GWACS gets more ridiculous as time goes on
Dude… those lawyers messed with the wrong enthusiast.
I appreciate you being candid about the situation and history. It’s hard to understand why someone would even begin a lawsuit from such a tenuous position, that’s the USA though.
Personally I think that Oppenheimer used "I don't wanna sell them scary assault weapons" as an attempt to gain sympathy from the court, banking on them being anti gunners if I heard right and he was a prior investor.
Alternatively he could have had a change of heart however. Either way still a shit bag.
I think he might have actually shot himself in the foot right there (maybe somewhere else next time). The suit is about the design / rights to produce the lowers, and implied loss of profit due to someone else designing something to fill the void. I think saying that will actually make his case harder because he can't claim he suffered financial damages because he intentionally buried the company before KE produced anything like it. That also gives him no gives him no advantage in the actual lawsuit because he's suing over the design. If anything it might strengthen KE arms case because he clearly let slip that the new design has no effect on his business in the future because he's already abandoned that market
Honestly i was skeptical of polymer lowers, but for a few hundred bucks ($125-300) for KE polymer lowers and nearly $500 and up for metal lowers, I finally tried them. I can say happily that if you're on the fence you should try them, the several I've bought have been excellent. The only issues I've seen are the mold surface finish especially under the trigger guard, and I don't personally like taking the rear pin out (by the pistol grip) therefore leaving all the weight on the front pin (by the handguard). I only do this with ARs to fast check or clean them. Perhaps that is stupidity on my end, but otherwise very happy with them and I hope they will continue to refine and upgrade their lowers.
"OK, so we're defunct. How much money would it take to create a good replacement mold for the old Cav Arms mold?"
"$200k+"
"Sunuvabitch! [...] If KE Arms don't just cut us in, we could sue them and take their mold for
Very fair analysis, what a bunch of turds. It's also possible the investor wants infringe on anything KE and CAV related to then claim it's theirs and startup a new company to develop something for L E or Military markets. Lasty, I had an old CAV Arms lower, can't remember if it was first or second generation. Wish I never got rid of it now. Hope it works out in the long run as I wouldn't mind getting the new WWSD from Brownells or build my own. Keep up the great work and content.
KE arms should make a new model number receiver: 20-CV-0341-CVE-CDL, the case number of this lawsuit. Mark it up $20 or whatever to be used to cover legal fees or buy champagne. I’ll buy one. Or more.
Sorry you have had to go through that. Good luck.
Thanks for putting up the fight and sticking with it. The liars will find any and every way to destroy truth.
I remember following the project, but could never find a GWACS lower in stock. Kinda absurd that they let their business lapse and are now trying to fight you guys for it.
It is a cash grab (or was supposed to be). In the land of the free, defending ones case is often more expensive than striking a deal out of court.
I'm sorry for this unduly mess and ...
I must say you are a most excellent communicator. You managed to explain such a convoluted story in an interesting, engaging and light way manner. Your work in the community is very much appreciated and valued but ...
Have you ever thought of working for the History Channel?
this is relatable, as I have some experience with kangaroo courts and sham lawsuits. what a pain in the ass.
never stop fighting.
So sorry y'all went through this. Had no idea.
Would be interesting to hear Fudd Busters take on this.
Karl you have my support, for what is worth.
I have been with you on the journey from 2017 to today. I built 4 WWSD 2017 rifles and 3 WWSD2020 rifles and purchased a WWSD2020 built.
I thank you for your efforts and KE arms for their efforts.
I would smile if this investor and his team was ground into the dirt but the very system they abuse.
F that guy. I don’t need another rifle but when I hear of such actions from a wealthy “businessman” buying a WWSD is very attractive. My own form of activism is to exercise my rights.
Well thought articulated facts. Thank you InRange.
Sadly it seems the strategy GWACS uses has devolved into "throw money at it until it goes away". I guess it really shows how skewed our system is for money.
Keep up the fight - you really changed the game with this lower - Stoner is proud. And my own rifle - is just so cool.
I'm glad I bought a kp-15 lower recently.
I'm super happy with the KE arms lower. I got it because it was priced right and to use for a spare/loaner upper. I am now convinced that it's a totally legit lower and the WWSD project is worth fighting for. Keeping your fighting rifle light is rare in the world of IR lasers and LPVO's but I think it's really a game changer.