I think the “why is Jack a thief” question also has something to do with imposter syndrome. When one has a hierarchical concept of the world and identify yourself as belonging at the bottom rung, striving to better yourself feels like you are doing something wrong, illegitimate or unlawful, like you are taking what you don’t deserve, stepping out of your proper place. “Who do you think you are?” The giants at the top are those you compare yourself to. Sometimes they are gracious, like the lady giantess, willing to share hospitality, wisdom, experience. Sometimes they are terrible, like the giant, jealous, prideful, miserly, outright malicious to those below. But either way they are larger than life, forces of nature one cannot hope to challenge. But when one reaches the third rung of the ladder, that of understanding the mysteries of your art/craft/wealth/society/life/whatever, the giants are revealed as simply people, both good and bad, and thus are thrown down from their pedestals, the illusion forever shattered, while you walk away with knowledge and understanding that is most precious.
I think you’re missing the David vs Goliath thing going on here. The giant isn’t just a person. He’s a giant. And Jack isn’t just a person either. He’s a thief. What does that mean? It means Jack has cleverness and the giant has strength. This, like many trickster stories, is about the superiority of cleverness to strength. If you aren’t telling people to be clever, then you’re not telling the story of Jack and the Beanstalk
@@Agaporis12 Unlike some underdog vs. giant stories, I wouldn’t say this one has much to with cleverness. Jack stayed safe because he was protected by the giantess. He stole, not through a planned heist or great trickery, but because he seized a moment of opportunity, which even a stupid person can do. Daring I’ll grant, but clever? No.
For some reason Jack and the Beanstalk sounds like a Christianized retelling of the Greek myth of Prometheus. Jack replaces Prometheus. The giant replaces the gods of Olympus. The gold, the chicken, and the harp replace the gift of fire. But the archetype of a young masculine figure stealing treasure from an older masculine figure above and giving it to the people below remains.
This maps as an analogue to Snow White. If Snow White is about female puberty, this could be about male puberty - you leave the side of your mother, sacrifice the cow, all you get is some seed, but that seed causes enormous growth, and only then do you encounter your father, or the spirit of masculinity itself, and you see its flaws, and you are able to obtain resources, and the capacity to generate resources, but also the production of seed/eggs/sperm. The harp could be about wooing women, in conjunction to the wisdom and ability to see patterns that were previously unavailable to you.
I did a research project on folk tales in my undergrad, specifically on Jack, so I’m really looking forward to this series, especially with the trademark Christian synthesis into these very old stories. Adding onto the content of this video, I’d be interested to see if Jonathan later explores not just Jack within this story, but also the concept of Jack as a stock character as well as other stock characters composing the pantheon of Western fairy tales (such as the wolf always being a devouring, Saturnian antagonist who relies on invitation or deception). To supplement the video, in my research I found that Jack is very prevalent throughout fairy tales beyond just the handful that are commonplace. Either as a character explicitly referenced by name within the Jack Tales and Brothers Grimm or with the name switched to a localized or related name such as John/Hans/Ivan/Jacques/Jacob (a comparison I like that Jonathan made with the biblical story of Jacob). He’s crisp in his presentation as a young man who is involved in the story in two ways. The first is that he invites trouble willingly through his own trickery or greed and is taught a lesson as a result (certain adaptations of Boy who Cried Wolf and Soldier Jack). The second, more commonly, is he does not cause trouble maliciously but gets into it through contrivance or childish folly, but resolves the problems through his wits (such as the Clever Elsie story and the seven men with a single blow story) or sheer luck (the Jack Tale adapted from Brothers Grimm where he’s trying to learn about fear and Jack and The Beanstalk) and is rewarded. The transcendent Promethean angle brought up in this video I think is interesting in this light, especially when you consider that Jack often goes from a pauper to a prince if he is rewarded and hierarchy was understood when these stories were told through the great chain of being. I could gush more, but in essence he’s a very interesting take on the trickster archetype as the foolish lad. His youth and status means he lacks valor, noble blood, or other heroic traits, and compensates with boyish antics. He’s no young King Arthur or Perseus, but instead works more like a precursor amalgamation of Tom Sawyer and -as I joked with my professor- a medieval Bugs Bunny. As always, a very interesting video analyzing this classic story, and I look forward to the symbolic analysis of other fairy tales in the future.
Seeing the release of the coming beautiful fairytales under your eyes - to make sure it stays true to itself as it was - is so unbelievably refreshing. Thank you so much
I started a small live theatre in my community. It's fun to think of my adventure in the framework of Jack & the Beanstalk. Every phase of the journey requires venturing into the land of the giants, requires struggle. And the goal is indeed to come home with a goose that lays golden eggs: an organization that blesses the community in perpetuity, without the need for me to take constant harrowing journeys to survive. I love all of the layers to the truths in the story. Thank you for your work!
The concept of a seed is truly fascinating. It only attains its maximum potential or achieves its destined purpose when it symbolically succumbs or 'dies'. In doing so, it reaches a state of elevation or glory. Drawing a parallel from this notion, Jesus Christ illustrated his impending death and foreshadowed resurrection by saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." - John12:24. Truth hidden in plain sight I suppose :)
Analyzing this tale from a spiritual viewpoint I believe that ; Jack represents the human soul , who is walking the spiritual path to the divine consciousness. Thus , the beanstalk is a symbol for the spine , which is the link between the physical world of matter and the higher mind. Now, the golden harp, and golden eggs, jack finds in heaven, are symbolic of the personal talents one receives after entering higher states of consciousness. However, such gifts are guarded by the Ogre , who personifies the ego or shadow. And it is the ego which must die , before jack can become fully human.
This is a personal alchemical story of finding heaven within. This is an “as above so below” story. The Giant is the inner belief or obstacle that plays out as poverty in the material world. Poverty not just of wealth but life itself, which can include literal wealth. The harp is the raising of vibration which will awaken the obstacle or Giant. The blockage to spiritual connection to the Father. Tower of Babel is the opposite. Its the human hierarchy which always collapses eventually. Spiritual hierarchy is based on Love and is permanent but we can’t see it until awakening.
This story never was a part of my childhood, and I never really liked it anyway. Thus my view of it is perhaps forgiven. I propose to view it as a reverse format, a reflection, an excuse of sorts for the fall of man. Jack and Mother Earth were doing poorly. They would surely die while the beings above, the Heavenly host, lead a rich and pleasurable life. Enter the mysterious being with the fruit that is the key to change. The man who sells the beans is old, representing that he comes from the current order of things, the old world order. As a Satan he knew Jacks' nature and offer him the means, the apple if you will, for him to act in accordance full well knowing that Jack would eat from the tree of knowledge, as shown in the story by the thrice deeper layers of knowledge represented by the golden objects. The female giant is gladly aiding him achieve his goal, an Eve of a sorts that encourage Jack to steal. As it is a reverse format of the fall Jack even climbs upwards and in line with this interpretation there are no tragic consequences that follow but instead Jack and his mother, who perhaps is a hinting at Mother Earth as an opposite to the Heavens, enjoying their earthly possessions and earthly joys, living forever down here far from the heavenly realms, even killing the heavenly host. I might have gone a bit too far but once I started thinking about it the interpretation took on a life of its own. 😄
It’s similar to the Murduk. Gold - Eyes in all directions Han laying golden eggs - Ability to speak magic words The harp - Going into the unknown I know it’s a loose association, but still.
Ooooooh my God, Jonathan!!! :-) BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL!!!! :-) I asked you in 2018 about a potential connection between the star Sirius (the Dog Star) and Saint Christopher.... You confirmed with the answer "yes" + some resources. Everything that happened ever since, has guided me here, with soooo much that is now synchronizing!! :-)
Interesting. I always thought this was quite a stupid story with a bad lesson. A boy gets a magic beanstalk into the clouds, finds a giant, steals all his stuff and then straight-up murders the poor guy, and lives happily ever after. However, seeing it as symbolic for the sinner's imagined path to transcendence makes a lot of sense.
I’m a fan of these videos, sincerely. I’d like to see your thoughts on “The Northman” a film by Robert Eggers. He also made “The Lighthouse” and “The VVitch.” His films feel ancient and fairy tailish in a non trivial way.
@@ed6911 it gets to me too. That end scene is very similar to a painting by Francesco Goya called “Witches Flight” or “The Witches Flight” which was painted in the 1800s if I’m right, and is probably based on an even older story if I had to guess.
I've been reading 'popular tales from the Norse' recently, and over half the stories are about a thief, often stealing from a giant or a troll, often 3 treasures. The ungenerous interpretation is that these are Norse tails; Viking tails, & that the Vikings were thieves & plunderers, & so they venerated those who stole as long as it from the 'other' & that the giants & trolls simply represent foreign peoples, who are to be deceived & exploited. A more generous interpretation might be something like the need to 'integrate the shadow' to be willing & able to utilise the darkness in service of the good, to be willing to get ones hands dirty when it's necessary.
Side note: my brother-in-law who is a very devout Christian Orthodox but also a very modern techie, calls my nieces and nephews (who absolutely adore him), "sporos" = seed. This is done in jest ofcourse, when he is in a funny conversation with them. For example: "what did you just say, 'spore'?" (conjugated). Giggles all around. Jack didn't know his own father, therefore, he craved the seed of his own existence, and all the wealth brought to this existence by one whose sole purpose is to love, guide and protect you, as Jonathan says.
hmmm. i would've guessed that the music represents the integration/intersection of beauty and meaning/function, which is what makes gold valuable in the first place. an instance of gold -> source of gold -> essence of gold, "gold as such"
it is in alignment with the scripture. There are several layers of heaven. It is mentioned too that Gabriel has to fight his way through those realms as he is coming down here. I always liked this Jack and The Bean stack. ❤
I also see Jack's (Jacob's) Mother as Israel the nation. Tied to the concept of ritual sacrifice to the missing Father God (the intended sacrifice of the cow or heifer). When he instead trades it for beans or seeds Jesus told us seed is the Word of God which He was and is. Access to our Eternal Father and New Jerusalem or Heaven and its blessings. Giants go back further in the Bible Genesis 6, hybrid offspring of rebellious angels. Who want what we have, the inheritance of the earth itself. And access to heaven freely.
Is there any insight to be had regarding the raw gold, the hen that is the source of gold, the harp made out of gold and material/formal/final cause (not necessarily in that order)?
All I want to add here, after reading the comments, is seems like a lot of men over intellectualize and are overly serious, finicky and nit picky on this for some reason. And they illustrate why Jack's mom HAD to cut that cord and that stalk and get Jack back on the ground and in the sunlight. It's a fairy tale and has a sense of humor. Yes, Jack had to dream and pursue those even if his mom saw no value in them. He brought back a lot of gold and sunlight from the old hoarding ogre in his soul. He brought back some money, a hen that lays eggs (they lay according to the sunlight they get, and not much in winter), and some time for music and beauty. Even if one must work all day and try to steal something from the sun or those that hoard it, there should be time for family/Mom, and some humor....or looking up at the night sky and reading all the stories up there....most of these tales are up in the sky and it's one reason they don't always make the sense we want them to.....all the constellations and the seasons and Milky Way are puzzle pieces people put together to make stories. Sometimes, the Milky Way is a river or chasm or stalk. It's serious, but not as serious as some make it. It's fun.
A beanstalk that reached the clouds- you make me wonder why Jack doesn't appreciate what he has wrought. He finally has a connection to land, the beans would being him a solid livelihood (or even fabulous wealth if they are all magic!). But the beans aren't simply enough - a youth without wisdom he is impelled by curiousity and then greed to steal and overreach and learns that magic shortcuts to wealth/heaven/wisdom are dangerous and can't be allowed to exist. is his happiness in the end a reward for bravery/risk taking? For all the heirarchy talk in the end the story seems to reinforce individualism (ignore mothers wisdom, get greedy and sometimes it pays off). The difference with Jacob is we have the second half of his story cycle (the consequences of his actions for Eisav, Dinah, Reuven, Leah, Rachel, Benjamin, Simon, Judah, and Joseph)
I was just reminded of the story of Abraham’s early life living in the pagan society and almost being sacrificed to pagan gods, but then he runs away to search for “the gift of the Fathers” and I can see echoes of that in this story.
I've been thinking about George Washington's legend where he chops down a cherry tree, and I was wondering if anyone has insight into why this is specifically a cherry tree. Got any ideas?
@@dejavugh2130Legend days George Washington & that he could not tell s lie, that he did chop down the fallen cherry tree. Abraham Lincoln was a lawyer by profession. There is a supposedly true story about him that he was pleading a case in the morning saying one of his clients was innocent of a certain wrongdoing. Then, in the afternoon, Abe represented another client in a manner that said the same was wrongdoing. The judge that oversaw both cases called Lincoln to the stand & interrogated Lincoln that he had claimed & won in the morning session on the basis that there had been no wrongdoing in the same activity. How can you explain your change of representation? Abe's reply was that he had been mistaken this morning & was now correctly representing. Legend says he won the afternoon case as well, much to the judge's chagrin. Adept lawyers are taught to be able to prosecute or defend that very same cases. Just because most specialize in either prosecution, defense, or specify areas of law, doesn't mean they aren't taught to manipulate the law towards a fiduciarily profitable outcome for themselves. Most would take this as constitutionally compromising one's ethics & morals over time. The lines between lying, right, wrong, & truthfulness become blurred. Though Lincoln is hailed as the white hero of the Civil War, he was quoted as saying, If I could possibly preserve the Union without a single slave being freed, I would gladly do so. It wasn't whether he was for or against slavery personally, as he had represented slaveowners, the elite railroad owners, & other oppressors of the time as well as common, impoverished folk, victims of these entities, Lincoln was focused primarily on the priority at hand, the win. The Union needed the Confederacy for survival both financially & through the harsh northern winters. The Civil War was more of an economic & political rebellion than a racial equality or rights battle, with Northerners being inherently good or Confederates being inherently bad. There were families where one son would fight for the Union while the other fought for the Confederacy, often on the very same battlefield, where people were coerced or even kidnapped to fight for one side or the other. And didn't want the Confederacy to be a repeat of the Revolutionary War with the rebels winning. The States needed to remain united in order to survive & also to be a united front in a war mongering territory taking world. So Abe was a known as Honest Abe, but to infer the "only telling the truth" meme of the cherry tree story would be disingenuous. Abe's honesty was relative & thus shifted with each situation. Washington's "can not tell a lie" is the promotion that wrongdoing does occur, but accountability for one's wrongdoing includes a fundamental unchanging moral code- do not bear false witness. Honest Abe could easily & frequently change sides, always believing he was on the right side of the law, but Washington was said to always tell the truth, fulfilling the Law, even if it was personally painful for him. Of course, most stories of the Founding Fathers & great Statesman are mere gables, not unlike modern gossip of movie stars, author's, & sports heros, but I hope you get the point. The winners write the history books. And soon enough the younger generations misinterpret, edit, rewrite, or explain away what really happened until soon the telephone game has a totally different statement. Case in point: You already have old Abe, the 16th President, highjacking the fable accredited to the 1st President, while other are even claiming now that there were Presidents prior to the General & that somehow the founding wasn't the signing of the Declaration of Independence, but much sooner with some landing of a slave ship. Historical stews are just that. And it doesn't really matter that you were mistaken earlier this morning, week, month, or year ago about the owner of a hatchet which took out a cherry tree on his parent's land.
@@Joe-sg9ll I think using symbolism from the cherry blossom tree is a stretch as cherry blossoms weren't really present in America until 1912. So less to do with the feminine.
++ For the abrupt ending, please also kill the outro to go full youtube and really snap the eye of attention closed! "I hope this version was enlightening to you---"
This is just off the top of my head, but perhaps in this the mother represents the lessons learned in childhood, and her aid is a reminder of the importance of remembering who you are, what your foundation is, lest success make you into the giant you slay?
Boys have a penis. Girls have a vagina. (You’re gonna make such a fortune getting back to reintroducing basic shit to the masses, them others are going to say it’s your fault they forgot in the first place.) I met an artist, (Kevin Eslinger) displaying his art at a festival…it was familiar childhood characters from Sesame Street, Alice in Wonderland ..that kinda thing, but with a dark twist…I still couldn’t not recognize them. The nonsensical displays adorning our society of today, are unbelievably disruptive…we could use a good sense of what is truly real versus fantasy being around again. (I still think the girl with the wrecking ball, is going to have her own talk show one day.) After we’re done with the fours, are we going to hear some love stories? …maybe like five or ten of ‘em? There’s so much work still to be done. “A lifetime isn’t enough to love you” - Ziggy 🍎
This fairy tale is a Christianized version of Norse mythology. Giants in the sky with a tree connecting it to our world. In some versions, the treasures belong to Jack's dead father. A knight (Christian authority figure) the giant murdered. Jack is taking back what is rightfully his--what St Augustine called "spoiling the Egyptians"--but all is not right till the giant (godless power with no lawful authority) is defeated.
Jack was fatherless and the giant child less, the giants wife even fell fond of jack probably because he was a little boy maybe something she wanted, the giant had everything jack could want which jack was never happy with, they both could of made each other happy. Jack was a bad seed he wasn’t happy til the giant diet
No, I have to say, you’re getting nowhere with this. The focus on social hierarchy to me seems completely alien to the tale. I think you went in the wrong direction there entirely. I was thinking over this question of why Jack is a thief and I was reflecting on masculinity. There are two distinctly masculine traits, strength and abstraction. And I thought, what if we could collapse both down into strength? Perhaps it is that physical strength, while it is useful in an absolute sense, in a comparative sense, that is in competition with other men, you’re always going to be facing a bigger fish. There is always someone taller, stronger, or perhaps younger than you. Strength alone is not enough. Merely being in competition with other men, especially bigger and stronger men, teaches you this. You innately look for something that can help you besides strength. And this is wisdom. But there is a question of course between rhetoric and philosophy here. The original story doesn’t confront that issue. It seems to believe that cleverness, creativity, morality, authority, and virtue are all kind of rolled into one bag. Those are the things Jack needs to beat the giant. The giant represents the limit of what strength will give you. He is absolutely unbeatable on a physical level, like your father when you’re young or like many men are when you get older. I believe climbing the beanstalk is a metaphor for thought and abstraction or learning. Jack gives up material goods for immaterial ones, because in competition, it is immaterial goods which are the most important. Why does he have to steal? Because he doesn’t have the strength. Why is it moral to steal? Again, I think the tale simply confuses intelligence with moral authority. Jack isn’t just outsmarting the giant, he is being a better person than the giant. He has seized the moral high ground. There is a sense in all of us that the ability to overpower physical strength must stem from some good in a person. Something powerful that is more permanent and absolute than strength. Something you can carry into old age and pass down to your children. I think Chesterton siezed on this when he used the giant as a metaphor for Nietzsche’s overman. He pointed out that only cowards bow down to strength. When a man sees a giant, He asks, who is this giant? What are his principles? How does he make his living? What is his religion? In short, is he a good or a bad giant? Because if he is good, then he is a valuable friend and as much a man as we, but if he is a bad giant, then he is no better than vermin. The giant here is presumed to be a bad giant simply by the fact that he does not share and is overcome by cleverness. I think to make this work, you might take a note from Disney’s Mickey Mouse adaptation. In there the giant is also a sorcerer. He can shapeshift into any form with his magic words. This to me seems like a good way to add a distinction between immaterial good and immaterial evil. The giant is not only unbeatable in strength but also in trickery and deception. Only by an exercise of virtue and a knowledge of truth can he be defeated.
A man can be as intelligent, strong, virtuous, knowledgeable of good and evil, truth as he wants; but Fate, Time, and a Woman or mother will always be there to cut one down and ground them in the end. If Jack had continued too long stealing from time it would have ground his bones to make its bread, as the earth eventually, does, anyway. If Jack's Mom hadn't cut the cords and said, "Enough!" he would have gotten too high and tall for his boots and become the giant. So, she had to ground him and put him back in reality. At the bottom of the hierarchy is that damn woman cutting people down to size, sons included....snakes included. Pageau's interpretation hits nearly all the marks and how I would have interpreted the meaning, but I'd add on a bit of humor at the end with Ol' Mom being a type of fate and grounding that darn boy, even if proud of him. And I'd add on that she tossed out another seed, too, one night when a wet princess knocked on the door in a rainstorm. I'd have that mom around a bit more.
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I think the “why is Jack a thief” question also has something to do with imposter syndrome. When one has a hierarchical concept of the world and identify yourself as belonging at the bottom rung, striving to better yourself feels like you are doing something wrong, illegitimate or unlawful, like you are taking what you don’t deserve, stepping out of your proper place. “Who do you think you are?” The giants at the top are those you compare yourself to. Sometimes they are gracious, like the lady giantess, willing to share hospitality, wisdom, experience. Sometimes they are terrible, like the giant, jealous, prideful, miserly, outright malicious to those below. But either way they are larger than life, forces of nature one cannot hope to challenge. But when one reaches the third rung of the ladder, that of understanding the mysteries of your art/craft/wealth/society/life/whatever, the giants are revealed as simply people, both good and bad, and thus are thrown down from their pedestals, the illusion forever shattered, while you walk away with knowledge and understanding that is most precious.
I think you’re missing the David vs Goliath thing going on here. The giant isn’t just a person. He’s a giant. And Jack isn’t just a person either. He’s a thief. What does that mean? It means Jack has cleverness and the giant has strength. This, like many trickster stories, is about the superiority of cleverness to strength. If you aren’t telling people to be clever, then you’re not telling the story of Jack and the Beanstalk
@@Agaporis12 Unlike some underdog vs. giant stories, I wouldn’t say this one has much to with cleverness. Jack stayed safe because he was protected by the giantess. He stole, not through a planned heist or great trickery, but because he seized a moment of opportunity, which even a stupid person can do. Daring I’ll grant, but clever? No.
For some reason Jack and the Beanstalk sounds like a Christianized retelling of the Greek myth of Prometheus.
Jack replaces Prometheus. The giant replaces the gods of Olympus. The gold, the chicken, and the harp replace the gift of fire. But the archetype of a young masculine figure stealing treasure from an older masculine figure above and giving it to the people below remains.
I love this facet of interpretation, it enriches the story even further; thank you for sharing!
Love your analysis!
This maps as an analogue to Snow White. If Snow White is about female puberty, this could be about male puberty - you leave the side of your mother, sacrifice the cow, all you get is some seed, but that seed causes enormous growth, and only then do you encounter your father, or the spirit of masculinity itself, and you see its flaws, and you are able to obtain resources, and the capacity to generate resources, but also the production of seed/eggs/sperm. The harp could be about wooing women, in conjunction to the wisdom and ability to see patterns that were previously unavailable to you.
I did a research project on folk tales in my undergrad, specifically on Jack, so I’m really looking forward to this series, especially with the trademark Christian synthesis into these very old stories.
Adding onto the content of this video, I’d be interested to see if Jonathan later explores not just Jack within this story, but also the concept of Jack as a stock character as well as other stock characters composing the pantheon of Western fairy tales (such as the wolf always being a devouring, Saturnian antagonist who relies on invitation or deception).
To supplement the video, in my research I found that Jack is very prevalent throughout fairy tales beyond just the handful that are commonplace. Either as a character explicitly referenced by name within the Jack Tales and Brothers Grimm or with the name switched to a localized or related name such as John/Hans/Ivan/Jacques/Jacob (a comparison I like that Jonathan made with the biblical story of Jacob).
He’s crisp in his presentation as a young man who is involved in the story in two ways. The first is that he invites trouble willingly through his own trickery or greed and is taught a lesson as a result (certain adaptations of Boy who Cried Wolf and Soldier Jack). The second, more commonly, is he does not cause trouble maliciously but gets into it through contrivance or childish folly, but resolves the problems through his wits (such as the Clever Elsie story and the seven men with a single blow story) or sheer luck (the Jack Tale adapted from Brothers Grimm where he’s trying to learn about fear and Jack and The Beanstalk) and is rewarded. The transcendent Promethean angle brought up in this video I think is interesting in this light, especially when you consider that Jack often goes from a pauper to a prince if he is rewarded and hierarchy was understood when these stories were told through the great chain of being.
I could gush more, but in essence he’s a very interesting take on the trickster archetype as the foolish lad. His youth and status means he lacks valor, noble blood, or other heroic traits, and compensates with boyish antics. He’s no young King Arthur or Perseus, but instead works more like a precursor amalgamation of Tom Sawyer and -as I joked with my professor- a medieval Bugs Bunny.
As always, a very interesting video analyzing this classic story, and I look forward to the symbolic analysis of other fairy tales in the future.
Seeing the release of the coming beautiful fairytales under your eyes - to make sure it stays true to itself as it was - is so unbelievably refreshing.
Thank you so much
Thank you. That was beautiful. Very interesting with the ascent from below.
Really well done! That was a really interesting dive
I LOVE these interpretations of the fairy tales!
I started a small live theatre in my community. It's fun to think of my adventure in the framework of Jack & the Beanstalk. Every phase of the journey requires venturing into the land of the giants, requires struggle. And the goal is indeed to come home with a goose that lays golden eggs: an organization that blesses the community in perpetuity, without the need for me to take constant harrowing journeys to survive. I love all of the layers to the truths in the story. Thank you for your work!
The concept of a seed is truly fascinating. It only attains its maximum potential or achieves its destined purpose when it symbolically succumbs or 'dies'. In doing so, it reaches a state of elevation or glory.
Drawing a parallel from this notion, Jesus Christ illustrated his impending death and foreshadowed resurrection by saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." - John12:24.
Truth hidden in plain sight I suppose :)
Okay. Jonathan outsmarted me by seeing Jacob and the angel in the story.
😉 Good Job.
Analyzing this tale from a spiritual viewpoint I believe that ; Jack represents the human soul , who is walking the spiritual path to the divine consciousness. Thus , the beanstalk is a symbol for the spine , which is the link between the physical world of matter and the higher mind. Now, the golden harp, and golden eggs, jack finds in heaven, are symbolic of the personal talents one receives after entering higher states of consciousness. However, such gifts are guarded by the Ogre , who personifies the ego or shadow. And it is the ego which must die , before jack can become fully human.
This is a personal alchemical story of finding heaven within. This is an “as above so below” story. The Giant is the inner belief or obstacle that plays out as poverty in the material world. Poverty not just of wealth but life itself, which can include literal wealth.
The harp is the raising of vibration which will awaken the obstacle or Giant. The blockage to spiritual connection to the Father.
Tower of Babel is the opposite. Its the human hierarchy which always collapses eventually. Spiritual hierarchy is based on Love and is permanent but we can’t see it until awakening.
This was so interesting!!! Thank you so much for this video ❤
This story never was a part of my childhood, and I never really liked it anyway. Thus my view of it is perhaps forgiven. I propose to view it as a reverse format, a reflection, an excuse of sorts for the fall of man.
Jack and Mother Earth were doing poorly. They would surely die while the beings above, the Heavenly host, lead a rich and pleasurable life. Enter the mysterious being with the fruit that is the key to change. The man who sells the beans is old, representing that he comes from the current order of things, the old world order. As a Satan he knew Jacks' nature and offer him the means, the apple if you will, for him to act in accordance full well knowing that Jack would eat from the tree of knowledge, as shown in the story by the thrice deeper layers of knowledge represented by the golden objects. The female giant is gladly aiding him achieve his goal, an Eve of a sorts that encourage Jack to steal.
As it is a reverse format of the fall Jack even climbs upwards and in line with this interpretation there are no tragic consequences that follow but instead Jack and his mother, who perhaps is a hinting at Mother Earth as an opposite to the Heavens, enjoying their earthly possessions and earthly joys, living forever down here far from the heavenly realms, even killing the heavenly host.
I might have gone a bit too far but once I started thinking about it the interpretation took on a life of its own. 😄
It’s similar to the Murduk.
Gold - Eyes in all directions
Han laying golden eggs - Ability to speak magic words
The harp - Going into the unknown
I know it’s a loose association, but still.
Ooooooh my God, Jonathan!!! :-) BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL!!!! :-) I asked you in 2018 about a potential connection between the star Sirius (the Dog Star) and Saint Christopher.... You confirmed with the answer "yes" + some resources. Everything that happened ever since, has guided me here, with soooo much that is now synchronizing!! :-)
Interesting. I always thought this was quite a stupid story with a bad lesson. A boy gets a magic beanstalk into the clouds, finds a giant, steals all his stuff and then straight-up murders the poor guy, and lives happily ever after. However, seeing it as symbolic for the sinner's imagined path to transcendence makes a lot of sense.
And that wierd Futurama episode S8E9 where "leela and the genestalk" mocks the crumbs from the table.
I’m a fan of these videos, sincerely. I’d like to see your thoughts on “The Northman” a film by Robert Eggers. He also made “The Lighthouse” and “The VVitch.” His films feel ancient and fairy tailish in a non trivial way.
Man the Witch really got to me. Even now, years on I can remember the end scenes which felt infused with evil…
@@ed6911 it gets to me too. That end scene is very similar to a painting by Francesco Goya called “Witches Flight” or “The Witches Flight” which was painted in the 1800s if I’m right, and is probably based on an even older story if I had to guess.
I've been reading 'popular tales from the Norse' recently, and over half the stories are about a thief, often stealing from a giant or a troll, often 3 treasures. The ungenerous interpretation is that these are Norse tails; Viking tails, & that the Vikings were thieves & plunderers, & so they venerated those who stole as long as it from the 'other' & that the giants & trolls simply represent foreign peoples, who are to be deceived & exploited. A more generous interpretation might be something like the need to 'integrate the shadow' to be willing & able to utilise the darkness in service of the good, to be willing to get ones hands dirty when it's necessary.
he's not an orphan big man, his mother is alive.
Lol
Side note: my brother-in-law who is a very devout Christian Orthodox but also a very modern techie, calls my nieces and nephews (who absolutely adore him), "sporos" = seed. This is done in jest ofcourse, when he is in a funny conversation with them. For example: "what did you just say, 'spore'?" (conjugated). Giggles all around. Jack didn't know his own father, therefore, he craved the seed of his own existence, and all the wealth brought to this existence by one whose sole purpose is to love, guide and protect you, as Jonathan says.
Thanks
hmmm. i would've guessed that the music represents the integration/intersection of beauty and meaning/function, which is what makes gold valuable in the first place.
an instance of gold -> source of gold -> essence of gold, "gold as such"
it is in alignment with the scripture. There are several layers of heaven. It is mentioned too that Gabriel has to fight his way through those realms as he is coming down here.
I always liked this Jack and The Bean stack. ❤
6:20 It is also an alchemical inner synthesis...reducing all the deceptive layers of things in order to see their real nature
Glad your getting into myth. I'd like to hear what you and Peterson and so on have to say about Zoroastrianism, if anything.
I also see Jack's (Jacob's) Mother as Israel the nation. Tied to the concept of ritual sacrifice to the missing Father God (the intended sacrifice of the cow or heifer). When he instead trades it for beans or seeds Jesus told us seed is the Word of God which He was and is. Access to our Eternal Father and New Jerusalem or Heaven and its blessings. Giants go back further in the Bible Genesis 6, hybrid offspring of rebellious angels. Who want what we have, the inheritance of the earth itself. And access to heaven freely.
Could the mother chopping down the tree also be seen as Mary in Revelation?
Is there any insight to be had regarding the raw gold, the hen that is the source of gold, the harp made out of gold and material/formal/final cause (not necessarily in that order)?
“First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women”.
All I want to add here, after reading the comments, is seems like a lot of men over intellectualize and are overly serious, finicky and nit picky on this for some reason. And they illustrate why Jack's mom HAD to cut that cord and that stalk and get Jack back on the ground and in the sunlight. It's a fairy tale and has a sense of humor. Yes, Jack had to dream and pursue those even if his mom saw no value in them. He brought back a lot of gold and sunlight from the old hoarding ogre in his soul. He brought back some money, a hen that lays eggs (they lay according to the sunlight they get, and not much in winter), and some time for music and beauty. Even if one must work all day and try to steal something from the sun or those that hoard it, there should be time for family/Mom, and some humor....or looking up at the night sky and reading all the stories up there....most of these tales are up in the sky and it's one reason they don't always make the sense we want them to.....all the constellations and the seasons and Milky Way are puzzle pieces people put together to make stories. Sometimes, the Milky Way is a river or chasm or stalk. It's serious, but not as serious as some make it. It's fun.
The Allegory of an unburped worm ?
A beanstalk that reached the clouds- you make me wonder why Jack doesn't appreciate what he has wrought. He finally has a connection to land, the beans would being him a solid livelihood (or even fabulous wealth if they are all magic!). But the beans aren't simply enough - a youth without wisdom he is impelled by curiousity and then greed to steal and overreach and learns that magic shortcuts to wealth/heaven/wisdom are dangerous and can't be allowed to exist. is his happiness in the end a reward for bravery/risk taking? For all the heirarchy talk in the end the story seems to reinforce individualism (ignore mothers wisdom, get greedy and sometimes it pays off). The difference with Jacob is we have the second half of his story cycle (the consequences of his actions for Eisav, Dinah, Reuven, Leah, Rachel, Benjamin, Simon, Judah, and Joseph)
Id even say in some ways the story says what Adam and Eve did was not so bad....
I was just reminded of the story of Abraham’s early life living in the pagan society and almost being sacrificed to pagan gods, but then he runs away to search for “the gift of the Fathers” and I can see echoes of that in this story.
I've been thinking about George Washington's legend where he chops down a cherry tree, and I was wondering if anyone has insight into why this is specifically a cherry tree. Got any ideas?
I thought that was Abraham Lincoln
@@dejavugh2130Legend days George Washington & that he could not tell s lie, that he did chop down the fallen cherry tree.
Abraham Lincoln was a lawyer by profession. There is a supposedly true story about him that he was pleading a case in the morning saying one of his clients was innocent of a certain wrongdoing. Then, in the afternoon, Abe represented another client in a manner that said the same was wrongdoing. The judge that oversaw both cases called Lincoln to the stand & interrogated Lincoln that he had claimed & won in the morning session on the basis that there had been no wrongdoing in the same activity. How can you explain your change of representation? Abe's reply was that he had been mistaken this morning & was now correctly representing. Legend says he won the afternoon case as well, much to the judge's chagrin. Adept lawyers are taught to be able to prosecute or defend that very same cases. Just because most specialize in either prosecution, defense, or specify areas of law, doesn't mean they aren't taught to manipulate the law towards a fiduciarily profitable outcome for themselves. Most would take this as constitutionally compromising one's ethics & morals over time. The lines between lying, right, wrong, & truthfulness become blurred.
Though Lincoln is hailed as the white hero of the Civil War, he was quoted as saying, If I could possibly preserve the Union without a single slave being freed, I would gladly do so. It wasn't whether he was for or against slavery personally, as he had represented slaveowners, the elite railroad owners, & other oppressors of the time as well as common, impoverished folk, victims of these entities, Lincoln was focused primarily on the priority at hand, the win. The Union needed the Confederacy for survival both financially & through the harsh northern winters. The Civil War was more of an economic & political rebellion than a racial equality or rights battle, with Northerners being inherently good or Confederates being inherently bad. There were families where one son would fight for the Union while the other fought for the Confederacy, often on the very same battlefield, where people were coerced or even kidnapped to fight for one side or the other. And didn't want the Confederacy to be a repeat of the Revolutionary War with the rebels winning. The States needed to remain united in order to survive & also to be a united front in a war mongering territory taking world.
So Abe was a known as Honest Abe, but to infer the "only telling the truth" meme of the cherry tree story would be disingenuous. Abe's honesty was relative & thus shifted with each situation. Washington's "can not tell a lie" is the promotion that wrongdoing does occur, but accountability for one's wrongdoing includes a fundamental unchanging moral code- do not bear false witness. Honest Abe could easily & frequently change sides, always believing he was on the right side of the law, but Washington was said to always tell the truth, fulfilling the Law, even if it was personally painful for him.
Of course, most stories of the Founding Fathers & great Statesman are mere gables, not unlike modern gossip of movie stars, author's, & sports heros, but I hope you get the point. The winners write the history books. And soon enough the younger generations misinterpret, edit, rewrite, or explain away what really happened until soon the telephone game has a totally different statement. Case in point: You already have old Abe, the 16th President, highjacking the fable accredited to the 1st President, while other are even claiming now that there were Presidents prior to the General & that somehow the founding wasn't the signing of the Declaration of Independence, but much sooner with some landing of a slave ship.
Historical stews are just that. And it doesn't really matter that you were mistaken earlier this morning, week, month, or year ago about the owner of a hatchet which took out a cherry tree on his parent's land.
@@dejavugh2130 - nope
@@Joe-sg9ll - huh?
@@Joe-sg9ll I think using symbolism from the cherry blossom tree is a stretch as cherry blossoms weren't really present in America until 1912. So less to do with the feminine.
++ For the abrupt ending, please also kill the outro to go full youtube and really snap the eye of attention closed!
"I hope this version was enlightening to you---"
The original ending was cut because he talks about things that are no longer relevant, since this was recorded in 2019.
Spoiler alert
I liked the video, and golden content as usual,
but this one felt like you really needed the bathroom during filming.
Why does it take mother to help jack overthrow the ogre?
This is just off the top of my head, but perhaps in this the mother represents the lessons learned in childhood, and her aid is a reminder of the importance of remembering who you are, what your foundation is, lest success make you into the giant you slay?
Boys have a penis. Girls have a vagina.
(You’re gonna make such a fortune getting back to reintroducing basic shit to the masses, them others are going to say it’s your fault they forgot in the first place.)
I met an artist, (Kevin Eslinger) displaying his art at a festival…it was familiar childhood characters from Sesame Street, Alice in Wonderland ..that kinda thing, but with a dark twist…I still couldn’t not recognize them.
The nonsensical displays adorning our society of today, are unbelievably disruptive…we could use a good sense of what is truly real versus fantasy being around again.
(I still think the girl with the wrecking ball, is going to have her own talk show one day.)
After we’re done with the fours, are we going to hear some love stories?
…maybe like five or ten of ‘em?
There’s so much work still to be done.
“A lifetime isn’t enough to love you” - Ziggy
🍎
As within as without
This fairy tale is a Christianized version of Norse mythology. Giants in the sky with a tree connecting it to our world. In some versions, the treasures belong to Jack's dead father. A knight (Christian authority figure) the giant murdered. Jack is taking back what is rightfully his--what St Augustine called "spoiling the Egyptians"--but all is not right till the giant (godless power with no lawful authority) is defeated.
Fi/fi/fo/fum are my pronouns!
Jack was fatherless and the giant child less, the giants wife even fell fond of jack probably because he was a little boy maybe something she wanted, the giant had everything jack could want which jack was never happy with, they both could of made each other happy. Jack was a bad seed he wasn’t happy til the giant diet
❤🔥
It is similar to Jacob wrestling with God?
Jakob try to get a blessing from haven throught violence and decepction.
Edit: I wrote it before warching 😂
idk why but the way the thumbnail was done made me read beanstalk bass boosted
So Jack is the original sigma entrepreneur..
So jack steals and kills and does not repent!
So jack a common Thief... never liked Jack
No, I have to say, you’re getting nowhere with this. The focus on social hierarchy to me seems completely alien to the tale. I think you went in the wrong direction there entirely.
I was thinking over this question of why Jack is a thief and I was reflecting on masculinity. There are two distinctly masculine traits, strength and abstraction. And I thought, what if we could collapse both down into strength? Perhaps it is that physical strength, while it is useful in an absolute sense, in a comparative sense, that is in competition with other men, you’re always going to be facing a bigger fish. There is always someone taller, stronger, or perhaps younger than you. Strength alone is not enough. Merely being in competition with other men, especially bigger and stronger men, teaches you this. You innately look for something that can help you besides strength. And this is wisdom. But there is a question of course between rhetoric and philosophy here. The original story doesn’t confront that issue. It seems to believe that cleverness, creativity, morality, authority, and virtue are all kind of rolled into one bag. Those are the things Jack needs to beat the giant. The giant represents the limit of what strength will give you. He is absolutely unbeatable on a physical level, like your father when you’re young or like many men are when you get older.
I believe climbing the beanstalk is a metaphor for thought and abstraction or learning. Jack gives up material goods for immaterial ones, because in competition, it is immaterial goods which are the most important. Why does he have to steal? Because he doesn’t have the strength. Why is it moral to steal? Again, I think the tale simply confuses intelligence with moral authority. Jack isn’t just outsmarting the giant, he is being a better person than the giant. He has seized the moral high ground. There is a sense in all of us that the ability to overpower physical strength must stem from some good in a person. Something powerful that is more permanent and absolute than strength. Something you can carry into old age and pass down to your children.
I think Chesterton siezed on this when he used the giant as a metaphor for Nietzsche’s overman. He pointed out that only cowards bow down to strength. When a man sees a giant, He asks, who is this giant? What are his principles? How does he make his living? What is his religion? In short, is he a good or a bad giant? Because if he is good, then he is a valuable friend and as much a man as we, but if he is a bad giant, then he is no better than vermin. The giant here is presumed to be a bad giant simply by the fact that he does not share and is overcome by cleverness.
I think to make this work, you might take a note from Disney’s Mickey Mouse adaptation. In there the giant is also a sorcerer. He can shapeshift into any form with his magic words. This to me seems like a good way to add a distinction between immaterial good and immaterial evil. The giant is not only unbeatable in strength but also in trickery and deception. Only by an exercise of virtue and a knowledge of truth can he be defeated.
A man can be as intelligent, strong, virtuous, knowledgeable of good and evil, truth as he wants; but Fate, Time, and a Woman or mother will always be there to cut one down and ground them in the end. If Jack had continued too long stealing from time it would have ground his bones to make its bread, as the earth eventually, does, anyway. If Jack's Mom hadn't cut the cords and said, "Enough!" he would have gotten too high and tall for his boots and become the giant. So, she had to ground him and put him back in reality. At the bottom of the hierarchy is that damn woman cutting people down to size, sons included....snakes included. Pageau's interpretation hits nearly all the marks and how I would have interpreted the meaning, but I'd add on a bit of humor at the end with Ol' Mom being a type of fate and grounding that darn boy, even if proud of him. And I'd add on that she tossed out another seed, too, one night when a wet princess knocked on the door in a rainstorm. I'd have that mom around a bit more.
This is laughably simplistic analysis and I can’t believe anyone say through this whole thing
Thanks