This same mentality needs to be applied to the trans community. You believe you're what you are, but people are also allowed to believe that you aren't what you say you are 🤷🏾♂️
@@DrJams actually, the trans community is a community: they share advice, guidance, support, and are truly a community. I object to 'black' or 'gay' communities used in discussions, because they really aren't, but actually, there is a genuine trans community.
Isn't it also: You have a right to define your own reality, but so do I. Isn't that the problem with the trans arguments: they should be able to self identify, but it doesn't mean I must identify them that way.
I completely agree. While I strongly oppose Asher's stance against LGBTQ+ rights because it is discriminatory, I do support their right to freedom of speech and religion, plus their right to discriminate against ideas and political slogans they disagree with. In a free society, everyone should have the right to live according to their own values and beliefs without being forced to adopt the beliefs of others. As Peter Tatchell says, we should not impose our beliefs on others, nor should others impose theirs on us.
The baker has a right to refuse any request. Seven years to settle is quite daft when it should be clear cut from the start (no pun intended). This kind of pushback needs to happen with the extremist left and trans culture. Hare Krishna.
I had a tee shirt slogan refused many years ago by a shop that advertised we print any thing on a tee shirt, didn't feel the need to spit my dummy out I just found another shop that would print it. Nice to hear Tatchell being subjective and not throwing a hissy fit.
Both Interviewer and interviewee pontificate about tolerance, yet continually infer how hateful it is to have a Christian worldview throughout the interview.
The term tolerance is a complex term. Many people these days use it incorrectly. They only demonstrate 'tolerance' for people they share the same views with.
Tolerance here means tolerating others' views, not necessarily to agree with those views. That is the only tolerance required. If they have a dislike of the Christian worldview, that's their right - even though I happen to disagree with them.
@@markellott5620 it certainly is their right - but it doesn’t make for balanced reporting when one continually remarks how hateful it is to disagree with gay marriage.
I hope the dude lost a lot of money for his narcissistic leap into the deep. People can oppose gay marriage , just as people can oppose any kind of marriage between two people. I am delighted for the bakery in this instance. 🙏
This is a fascinating case with an intelligent ruling. This is a well balanced conversation between Kevin and Peter. It’s a pity we can’t always resolve our ideas in this way.
I don't agree with gay marriage! 😱 what an evil person I must be! I still have a gay friend and work for gay people now and then!! Ask a muslim to make a gay marriage cake!
This is what I don't understand. They fought for years to be allowed to marry and the moment they achieved it, they qualified it in a manner which clearly identifies it as different, to the point now of sueing to show the difference.
If the law says to recognise the rights of a certain group, it doesn't mean you can walk into any establishment and demand that they participate in a promotion for you.
@@Craig121000 Wow touchy. So the shop doesn't provide a service you want, no where else does, so you're going to force the shop to do what you want? Get a grip and grow the f up. Make your own damn gay cake if it's that important to you. So entitled and self-absorbed it's unreal.
Why would any sane person support gay marriage? The very words are a contradiction in terms! Well done to the bakery for standing up for their values. Society has NO moral compass these days! 🙄😖
Surely people have dealt with retailers who won't give you what you want and then you pick another retailer? You don't then try and sue the original retailer.
Part of a lawful contract is a meeting of the minds, Tatchell already stated a difference of opinions existed, therefore no lawful contract could have been made to have been breached.
so another £1/4m of taxpayers money down the toilet. So Tatchell answer was that the bakery ought to have published 'We will put any message - Except .... and there follows a long list any of which could be challenged in court) Rather than what would have been done until recently that it was left to the bakers agreement.
I think that any business owner should have the right to not deal with ANY person that they don't want to deal with. Maybe the person is too high maintenance or has a nasty personality or swears too much. Whatever the case is, they should be able to turn a customer down.
Agree with these people but why do they have to say it's not a nice opinion not to support gay marriage? Why can't the choose what to support or not to support without the sanctimonious judgement?
You know what?? Everyday in every way sanity is coming to European society!! Its about time that we stop bowing to delusion and stand up for reality in human lives!! Tatchell practising - at last - equanimity, indeed reality!!
Opinions are everything, you mentioned the National ftont, yes a group no one agrees with but you saiid threatened, but we had the George Floyd riots ehere they sctually wrnt into communities and did not threaten but sctually destroted property businesses snd alike yet opinion was far different, we accepted one but not the other, yet both were wrong.
He didn't go to a Muslim bakery just in it to get what they thought would be an easy target and easy money I'm gay there are nice civil honest hard working gay men and women out there and wouldn't dream of of forcing Thier views on regular straight people
The issue was not about discriminating against someone based on their sexuality - that did not happen. The issue was about refusing to be associated (albeit indirectly) with a political slogan contrary to one's own views. In other words, should bakers and confectioners be forced to incorporate political messages advocated by their customers, but to which they are opposed?
Though I mostly agree with Peter I don’t think anyone should be encouraged to further persecute Christian’s for sticking to their guns. They should probably change their advertising to something like ‘ we will mostly accommodate your wishes’
It is not a complicated case... no one should force me to bake a cake I do not want ... simple .. If it was complete monopoly with only one bakery, and I'm not allowed to bake my own cake ..then ... maybe then it would be a case... now it is not ..
"If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable act. They must be put to death; their death is their own fault." (Leviticus 20:13)
This same mentality needs to be applied to the trans community.
You believe you're what you are, but people are also allowed to believe that you aren't what you say you are 🤷🏾♂️
Don't call them a community, call them activists
@@DrJams actually, the trans community is a community: they share advice, guidance, support, and are truly a community. I object to 'black' or 'gay' communities used in discussions, because they really aren't, but actually, there is a genuine trans community.
Isn't it also: You have a right to define your own reality, but so do I. Isn't that the problem with the trans arguments: they should be able to self identify, but it doesn't mean I must identify them that way.
Well said
That's not how it works. You must respect how they indentify
Why is it always Christians? Never heard of anybody trying to do this to a other religious groups...
They wouldn't dare My Love 😘💖💕🙏🏼
The correct decision no one should be forced to support anything that's against their personal beliefs.
Agree. A racist baker should not be forced to bake a wedding cake depicting a mixed-race couple.
@@GhostofEnoch yes they should. That is completely different. There is no good reason for them to not make that cake. They shouldn't be racist
@@blackpoolwholesaleballoons It's no different at all in principle. People have a right to express 'racist' views in a free society.
100% support Ash's bakery and would go there. Ash's is right
I completely agree. While I strongly oppose Asher's stance against LGBTQ+ rights because it is discriminatory, I do support their right to freedom of speech and religion, plus their right to discriminate against ideas and political slogans they disagree with. In a free society, everyone should have the right to live according to their own values and beliefs without being forced to adopt the beliefs of others. As Peter Tatchell says, we should not impose our beliefs on others, nor should others impose theirs on us.
This man has lost sight of the fact this bakery was targeted because he had Cristian believes, should never have gone to court
It was malicious litigation.
The baker has a right to refuse any request. Seven years to settle is quite daft when it should be clear cut from the start (no pun intended). This kind of pushback needs to happen with the extremist left and trans culture. Hare Krishna.
I had a tee shirt slogan refused many years ago by a shop that advertised we print any thing on a tee shirt, didn't feel the need to spit my dummy out I just found another shop that would print it. Nice to hear Tatchell being subjective and not throwing a hissy fit.
Both Interviewer and interviewee pontificate about tolerance, yet continually infer how hateful it is to have a Christian worldview throughout the interview.
The term tolerance is a complex term. Many people these days use it incorrectly. They only demonstrate 'tolerance' for people they share the same views with.
Tolerance here means tolerating others' views, not necessarily to agree with those views. That is the only tolerance required. If they have a dislike of the Christian worldview, that's their right - even though I happen to disagree with them.
@@markellott5620 it certainly is their right - but it doesn’t make for balanced reporting when one continually remarks how hateful it is to disagree with gay marriage.
@@TheIrishMegaphone Balanced reporting. When was that a thing?
"Should have got him on breach of contract" - How tolerant!
I hope the dude lost a lot of money for his narcissistic leap into the deep.
People can oppose gay marriage , just as people can oppose any kind of marriage between two people.
I am delighted for the bakery in this instance. 🙏
If the bakery will not make the cake you want. Go to another bakery.
This is a fascinating case with an intelligent ruling. This is a well balanced conversation between Kevin and Peter. It’s a pity we can’t always resolve our ideas in this way.
People just want their gay cake, and eat it.
This was a sound decision. Tatchell is being rational and sensible here and he is right. No business should be forced by law to promote an ideology.
How on earth can a customer force a company do whatever that customer wants.
I don't agree with gay marriage! 😱 what an evil person I must be! I still have a gay friend and work for gay people now and then!!
Ask a muslim to make a gay marriage cake!
They wouldnt have dared to try that.
That's fine. Don't marry a gay person and get on with your life 🤷🏼♂️
I don't agree with straight people having premarital or extramarital sex! I still have straight friends and talk to them occasionally. 🤭
This is what I don't understand.
They fought for years to be allowed to marry and the moment they achieved it, they qualified it in a manner which clearly identifies it as different, to the point now of sueing to show the difference.
If the law says to recognise the rights of a certain group, it doesn't mean you can walk into any establishment and demand that they participate in a promotion for you.
Peter Tatchell is wrong that a claim could have been taken for breach of contract. Until a contract is entered into, there can be no breach.
The gay guy could easily have just gone to another cake shop. It's what most normal people do when a shop doesn't provide the service you want.
@@Craig121000 Wow touchy. So the shop doesn't provide a service you want, no where else does, so you're going to force the shop to do what you want? Get a grip and grow the f up. Make your own damn gay cake if it's that important to you. So entitled and self-absorbed it's unreal.
I disagree with Peter Tatchell about many things, but on this topic he argues from principle. Respect for that.
His principles being "They should have got him with a breach of contract"!
Wise words from Peter Tatchell
Why would any sane person support gay marriage? The very words are a contradiction in terms! Well done to the bakery for standing up for their values.
Society has NO moral compass these days! 🙄😖
I would like a relationship with a man though
I think I'm in a parallel universe, what a fabulous and intelligent discussion well done chaps
Surely people have dealt with retailers who won't give you what you want and then you pick another retailer? You don't then try and sue the original retailer.
Well said Mr.Tatchell.
The only winners of the cake saga are the lawyers.
Agreed. I wouldn’t make a cake glorifying domestic abuse.
£251,000 !!!! How long will that take Gareth to pay back ?
Morality wins... so glad this man lost his case.
I hope the Equality Commission spend the same amount when fighting mandatory passes or jabs.
What a pleasant change to hear a debate where common sense prevails from both sides.
Part of a lawful contract is a meeting of the minds, Tatchell already stated a difference of opinions existed, therefore no lawful contract could have been made to have been breached.
You can't just pick on people because they are religious.
so another £1/4m of taxpayers money down the toilet. So Tatchell answer was that the bakery ought to have published 'We will put any message - Except .... and there follows a long list any of which could be challenged in court) Rather than what would have been done until recently that it was left to the bakers agreement.
Well said Peter.
The crazies are getting crazier.
Excellent Mr Tatchell.
Whilst I agree with them, I don’t think they explained ‘compelled speech’ argument particularly clearly to convince anyone who disagrees.
I think that any business owner should have the right to not deal with ANY person that they don't want to deal with. Maybe the person is too high maintenance or has a nasty personality or swears too much. Whatever the case is, they should be able to turn a customer down.
As a self employed contractor, I've done this for those very reasons.
OMG! never thought i’d find myself agreeing with Peter Tatchell😳
You have the right to an opinion as long as it's the same as mine!
I completely agree with everything Peter Tatchell says.
Agree with these people but why do they have to say it's not a nice opinion not to support gay marriage? Why can't the choose what to support or not to support without the sanctimonious judgement?
Well said - "sanctimonious" is the right word for it.
Am I in a parallel universe 🤔 Everything said here makes too much sense and sounds too normal.
You know what?? Everyday in every way sanity is coming to European society!! Its about time that we stop bowing to delusion and stand up for reality in human lives!! Tatchell practising - at last - equanimity, indeed reality!!
It’s pretty clear why they asked the bakery to bake a cake with that specific slogan.
Breach of contract… who signs a contract with a wet ink signature where there’s valuable consideration for a friggin cake????
Brilliant . They have rights as well
The bakers have rights
We shouldn't discriminate on vaccination status either but Governments globally are setting a very bad example.
Opinions are everything, you mentioned the National ftont, yes a group no one agrees with but you saiid threatened, but we had the George Floyd riots ehere they sctually wrnt into communities and did not threaten but sctually destroted property businesses snd alike yet opinion was far different, we accepted one but not the other, yet both were wrong.
How Peter has matured! He is now a reasonable and rational elder statesmen representing his beliefs
I just can’t see why this was let to drag on for 7 years - why not just take your money elsewhere.
He singled ou the bakery cause it was Christian. No other reason. He wanted this. What a scumbag.
At least Peter Tatchell believes in free speech
This process was funded by public money, pursued by an NI government agency.
He didn't go to a Muslim bakery just in it to get what they thought would be an easy target and easy money I'm gay there are nice civil honest hard working gay men and women out there and wouldn't dream of of forcing Thier views on regular straight people
Write any message on the cake Peter Tatchell? Was their no small print in the Ash's cake contract regarding the type of message they would print.
The back hole is a 1 way pipe.Excretment comes out of it.A lot of people know this is nature based science.
The issue was not about discriminating against someone based on their sexuality - that did not happen. The issue was about refusing to be associated (albeit indirectly) with a political slogan contrary to one's own views. In other words, should bakers and confectioners be forced to incorporate political messages advocated by their customers, but to which they are opposed?
Though I mostly agree with Peter I don’t think anyone should be encouraged to further persecute Christian’s for sticking to their guns. They should probably change their advertising to something like ‘ we will mostly accommodate your wishes’
It is not a complicated case... no one should force me to bake a cake I do not want ... simple .. If it was complete monopoly with only one bakery, and I'm not allowed to bake my own cake ..then ... maybe then it would be a case... now it is not ..
They could have refused to make the cake on the grounds of copyright
That was nonsense you can't force people to do things they don't want
Valve got this right with portal. 'the cake is a lie'.
So delighted the bakery won
He wanted his cake and eat it, too.
How much has all this litigation cost both parties?
They didn't do breach of contract because that wouldn't have made headlines and they couldn't claim systemic homophobia when they lost.
Peter Tatchell is such an interesting man.
I want to live in a society with a whole range of opinions, views or ideas.
7 years . Just go elsewhere. Simple
Well said Peter, eloquently made points
Im i hearing that right somebody put something in tatchells tea
The marks of marriage are permanence, exclusivity, and openness to life
"If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable act. They must be put to death; their death is their own fault."
(Leviticus 20:13)
Homophobe
So impartial here is Peter I just wish other people could be as impartial as him on the biggest current issue.
Why would you want someone who doesn't agree with your lfestyle to make the cake anyway other than petty principle. Just take your business elsewhere.
you dont have the legal right to force someone to do as you say for money. Ther has to be an agreement
What a legal can of worms but the outcome was correct.
1:42 ? nope, not a believable excuse.
🙄
If you want to hear some common sense, just listen to Peter Tatchell.
Niiii
well said Peter. A person on the left being sensible. A rare thing indeed !