Who Is TT:120 Really For??? - Thoughts On The UK's Newest Model Railway Craze!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- I share my thoughts on the UK's latest model railway craze TT:120 and wonder - who is TT:120 really for?
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TT:120 has made quite a splash within the model railway community since it's launch in the UK 18 months ago. Some people love it, others hate it, a few more are indifferent. Now that the scale has had time to settle in I was curious to look at some of the Pros & Cons of TT:120 and talk about who on earth this scale is actually for?
Was it a mistake? Will it survive long term? Has Hornby's initial marketing strategy hurt them... I discuss all these in the video and give my thoughts on each. If you're considering TT:120 yourself, watch this video before you make any decisions.
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:40 - Pros Of TT:120
05:08 - Cons Of TT:120
07:16 - Who Is TT:120 For?
09:50 - Hornby's Marketing Strategy
12:33 - Negativity Towards TT:120
15:02 - Will TT:120 Survive?
17:48 - Final Thoughts On TT:120
Thanks for watching 😃
I think I am the person you are describing as the target audience. I had a train set fifty something years ago, and I’ve wanted to start a model railway for a while. Space is, as for most of us, an issue. I’ve been watching the various channels on TH-cam for a while, and while I am in awe of the skills of many of the modellers, I would not have committed to a model railway on 00 - for me to make a layout I would be happy with would simply take up too much space. I’ve started buying some TT:120 stuff and I am enjoying everything I’ve bought so far, and the layout plans are progressing.
I have been taken aback by just how much negativity, bordering on hate in many cases, there is against TT:120. I simply don’t understand it - if you don’t like, that’s fine, but why spout all the hate? Put your energy into enjoying what ever you do, and not trying to force your opinions on to someone else.
I’m enjoying TT:120, and I hope it continues to thrive.
well said that man!
This is awesome to hear! Really glad to hear you're getting back into the hobby with TT:120 and are enjoying it too. Yes there's a lot of negativity about but at the end of the day it's just words - it doesn't physically stop any of us from having fun with our layouts so carry on I say! Thanks for watching 😃
That is exactly my story, I always wanted a train set but never had the room. TT120 has brought me into the hobby.
Some European retailers who don't used to stock British stuff are stocking Hornby's TT range now, this could only be a good thing.
That's definitely a good sign if it's starting to grow Hornby's brand overseas. Thanks for watching 😃
@@shakeyhandsshedmodelrailwa2494 What monopoly? Outside the UK Hornby are a very small brand worldwide. Even back in the UK they may be well know to the public but in the hobby itself they're loosing ground to Accurascale, Rapido, Dapol, Bachmann, etc.
But given your previous negative comments on this channel I have to wonder why you're so anti-Hornby yet continually seek out content on them 🤷🏻♂
@@shakeyhandsshedmodelrailwa2494 Nobody has forced you to watch this or any other video. Nobody has forced you to leave multiple comments berating anyone who disagrees with you. It’s a toy train, it’s not that big of a deal.
If you want to have a proper discussion that’s fine but clean up your attitude first. You’re the one over-reacting every time time someone disagrees with you and it’s not helping your argument. You have been warned already so either stop being antagonistic or walk away. The choice is yours.
I remember an interview when TT:120 was launched with the head of Hornby. Apparently it is aimed at new modelers who don't have much room. It was designed to be fixed to a board and put under a bed to store, so that you do not have to have a spare room. With houses getting smaller this seems like a good ploy.
Yeah one of the main selling points for TT:120 is the smaller size that allows a layout to be brought out and setup for a bit before being put away later. It's why the TT part stands for Table Top after all. Thanks for watching 😃
As someone who classes themselves as a casual modeller, the big issue for me with TT is the cost. I work in manufacturing so I get that miniaturisation doesn't necessarily translate to cheaper manufacturing cost, but right now there is not a big enough cost differential between TT and OO in my view, given how much aftermarket support is still there for OO.
Comparing prices on Hornby's website the HSTs in 00 and TT are about £100 apart, the A3s more like £80 apart.
I know people's assumption tends to be smaller, ergo cheaper but I don't think Hornby went into TT to create a budget range, they already have the Railroad for that. TT feels like it's intended to sit between Railroad and the Premium range and I'd say it's doing that pretty well so far. Thanks for watching 😃
huge issue being there is no real "cheaper to buy secondhand" option
its like Hornby etc view their main rivals not to be each other, but to be eBay
@@aleopardstail Possibly but I feel like that applies more to their 00 gauge range and collectors editions. I imagine a big reason they decided to redo The Great Gathering models 10 years later was because of how much the originals were going for on eBay. Hornby aren't alone in this - Rapido's second run of the Stirling Single springs to mind as well.
I’m glad you addressed the negativity. People who moan about TT would moan about the price of shovels if there was gold buried in their gardens.
Great analogy! I suspect that those who are moaning about TT:120 are the ones who moan about Hornby in general regardless. Thanks for watching 😃
Thanks btw for putting your head above the parapet, and as Martyn Weaver said in my interview I uploaded last week, Hornby aren’t aiming at “converting” OO fans.
Yes it does feel a bit like walking out onto a firing range with a target strapped to me 😅 It's funny that for many of us that's been obvious from the start but it needs repeatedly explaining for others. Thanks for watching 👍
Just to say the same as Peachy. You will (and are already) be taking flak. But as long as you (and your dad!) enjoy it, press on
I think when people say about the limited range in terms of making a layout, they are forgetting that with OO you, that's not necessarily an advantage because it requires both time and money to get the things you want, it's taken me 20 years of collecting to get get the 15 or so locos that I want for my layout and the layout is only just started so the lack of range in TT I don't think is an issue, it gives you some where to get started and by the time you get round to looking for your next model more will have been released so it doesn't really matter unless you've got loads of spare cash waiting to burn.
Yes TT:120 is potentially a much more casual way to go about building a layout. Although 00 has many more options for those wanting to recreate a particular time and place, TT does seem to lean more into the idea of just running some trains because it's fun (not that you can't do that with 00 of course). Thanks for watching 😃
I think the point isn't having a huge collection:
The point of variety and having a larger range is to give people a choice.
With 00, you can really start a model of any region, any era, and any scene.
You have freedom to start modeling whatever you wish.
With TT, you have BR end of steam on the LNER, and BR Diesels....
If it's taken you 20 years to get the locos you want in OO how long do you think it'll take in TT? Never mind you'll be able to fit your TT layout into your retirement home room once it's finished...
@@cathybrind2381 I've been busy and low on money because of parenting, now the kids they are older, I'm able to make real progress lol. Had TT have come out 20 years ago, I probably would have chosen it over OO as something easier to get out and pack away with kids around, and buy now, the market place would have developed enough my layout. Obviosuly it's too late for me but there will be people out there in similar situations to me 20 years ago where TT allows them to get started and in 20 years when their kids are older and there are more products avaliable, they can then go all out on their own layouts :)
@@jayk-pianist7532 Yes, but my point is for some people, having lots of choice isn't that useful when you don't have a lot of money, so having to wait for models to come out won't be an issue because they will have to wait till you have the money for the next model anyway.
It's one thing to say "this is not for me", quite another thing to say "I hate it, I hate it and noone should have it"!
Quite right - I like it, but it's not for me, at least not yet....
Couldn't agree more! It really is a strange way to go about a hobby that is done purely for enjoyment. Thanks for watching 😃
@@johnstilljohn3181Totally fair! Picking a scale isn’t trivial. It’s a big investment. Everyone’s needs are different!
Great video. I am building a TT layout because I don’t have the room for a OO layout.the only problem I have with it is I live in Australia and we have to buy TT120 in select model shops because Hornby made a deal with a distributor here and won’t let us buy anything TT120 off their website.
I understand that distribution issue stands for all Hornby products too, not just the TT range. Definitely seems a bit shortsighted on Hornby's part as it sounds like there are a lot of Australian modellers who want to but can't buy their products. Thanks for watching 😃
I picked TT after getting back into the hobby last year. Used to do N and Z so I can use old bit for TT narrow gauge. As DIY NG scratcher I now have CNC mill(3018) with laser and 2 x Anycubic Mono 2's. Cost less than a few expensive locos/sets.
There is some showing up on Ebay now and I'm sure that will increase over time.
Saw first pics of locally made Queensland BB15 in TT scale, going to be at the Brisbane show.
I've greatly enjoyed the fury and fulmination of certain OO gauge modellers - especially one or two "little men" on TH-cam!
Loving TT:120. Finally a true to scale track (hallelujah!) and super-detailed models courtesy of modern incredible tooling capabilities. Hornby's blazed a trail with Peco, and as it gains momentum in the next year or two, it wouldn't' be a surprise to see some of the smaller manufacturers getting on the bandwagon. That would really get the fire going.
Can see almost no threat to OO, but can see N potentially taking a bit of a hit in the years to come.
Agreed I sometimes have a hard time deciding whether to laugh or roll my eyes 😅 I think whatever happens TT:120 is here to stay, it's made so much of an impact already and it's certainly got people to sit up and take notice.
N gauge will have a place long term in my opinion, it's still much bigger than TT:120 don't forget with a huge range to choose from. I also think it's great for those on more of a budget - you can pick up locos and rolling stock fairly cheap secondhand which doesn't seem to be the case with 00. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy you speak total sense - couldn't agree more!
Thank you That Model Railway Guy for your positive outlook. I agree with you 100% that TT:120 has a very bright future. Like you perfectly stated, all these modern scale offerings are of a high standard and it's just a matter of time before a vibrant 2nd hand TT:120 market establishes itself with only quality 'up to date' models. I also admire that you never overlooked the increasing number of 3rd party companies joining in with their latest additions to this modern scale. Modern railway modellers really do have something to enthuse about now, whether they be newcomers to the hobby , OO converts or bi-scalers like me.
Good to hear from somewhat that agrees with me 😅 It'll definitely be interesting to see how things pan out in the future as secondhand models and more support from 3rd parties becomes more common. Thanks for watching 👍
I’m probably less “casual” than your perception of the target audience. I am returning in retirement to railway modelling and wanted to do more than the OO oval I had space for. What I like is the TT120 modellers on social media aren’t as critical and snobby as they can sometimes be with other scales. It’s definitely an audience of people who want to share and learn. OO modellers are generally great but there are always a few vocal know it all’s that can dominate the forums. Probably the same people coming on to the TT120 forums just to say how awful it is. Model railways is my happy place and that’s what I’m looking for when I select my community
Yeah I've noticed that about the TT:120 community too. A lot less negative, a lot less overly critical, just happy when something new is released. Whereas in 00 gauge people will find faults and pick apart every tiny little thing. The hobby is meant to be fun I know which community I'd rathe be a part of. Thanks for watching 🤩
Nicely put together video with well balanced thoughts.
Pretty much hit the nail in the head for me. I left the hobby 20 years ago and TT encouraged me back. I was tempted by “00” but the gauge thing always bothered me. Why run beautifully made models on narrow gauge track ( and don’t start me on Irish gauge ! )..?
The reaction against TT is people lacking something in their lives and want to bash Hornby for reasons that escape me.
It’s a hobby. Nothing else.
TT will continue to grow..
Great to hear that TT:120 has brought you back into the hobby and it seems the scale is attracting a lot of modellers who previously had issues with 00. It definitely seems like the negativity is a knee jerk reaction against Hornby rather than the scale itself which I think is a real shame. Thanks for watching 😃
Yes indeed the hobby is meant to be fun. Whatever scale you prefer... it really doesn't matter and if the hobby is to continue successfully people need to respect other peoples preferences. I really don't understand this TT and Hornby bashing. TT is a wonderful scale with fantastic quality models and there is no doubt in my mind that its success will continue to grow over the years. I myself sold my old Hornby 00 collection and I'm now heavily in to TT.
Yeah it really all is a bit silly isn't it and I can't understand why it bothers those so much who aren't even involved in the scale. Great to hear you're having fun with TT:120 - you're certainly not alone! Thanks for watching 😃
I think that you are right that TT120 is not aimed at established modellers, but I remember looking in a model shop window with my father when I was a kid and starting out - if it had been available, I would have loved it and it would not have made any difference that “everything” was not available in the range immediately.
Yeah the people who are engaging with it do tend to be the sort who are coming at the hobby fresh rather than having a preconceived notion of how it should be. It's that enthusiasm for the scale and what can be achieved with it that makes it all worth while. Thanks for watching 🤩
I enjoyed the video, I've never had a problem with TT scale, and I 100% agree with you on the whole negativity about it, I never understood why people was ranting about it, the hobby is about having fun thats the main thing and people forget that 😀
Yes seems completely bizarre that people would put so much time and energy into hating something that they can easily just choose to ignore. 00 gauge isn't going away, neither is N, 0, 009, G Scale, etc... TT is just another option 😅 Thanks for watching 👍
In my opinion, I see this scale has potential as it a really great scale for people like me who live in a small house, apartment and bungalow.
I’m annoyed about this pointless argument about the scale, it a hobby, not to criticise. For me, I really love it as I like to used it as a model railway train set for fun rather than have a professional way that I see from other scales. I’m not going to throw away OO just because of a better plus smaller scale that satisfies me. I like to used model railway in any scale for my childhood nostalgia.
I agree the arguments do seem rather pointless overall. Not to detract from those that have genuine misgivings about the scale but it's a hobby and it's meant to be fun. If it's not for you there's no need to engage with it, never mind trying to spoil others enjoyment. Thanks for watching 😃
This is a refreshingly honest and well balanced look at TT120. I have gotten into the hobby through it, and love it.
Glad you enjoyed it, it felt like it was about time for someone to do a video that wasn't ripping it to shreds 😅 Great to hear you're having a good time in the hobby as a result of TT:120. Thanks for watching 👍
Hi from Australia, I have built layouts in many different scales for G, O, On30, HO, HOn3-6, 009 and N. My first layout in the 60's was Hornby 00 when I was a child. Now at 70 years I have had to downsize and along comes TT120 fantastic gives me the opportunity to build a layout in the limited space,
Also we are traveling in our motorhome for 6 months and I can now build and take a model Railway on my travels WOW! Also I don't understand the 00 negativity, most model railway people enjoy the hobby, share and encourage. I think if we went to a model railway show and there were not all the different scale and just 00 it would be very sad day. As for Hornby first only sold on line except here in Australia, well yes we could go to our limited hobby shops to see and purchase. However it takes at least 2 to 3 months for the items to appear in shops and usually in limited numbers, we are still waiting for the 3 recent tank wagons to appear and Peco Planked wagons not to mention the recent releases. But I am very impressed with TT120 if I had the space that I have had in the pass this scale would be amazing. Also this scale has got me back into UK railways so hay I am back where I started as a child.
That's awesome to hear you're giving TT:120 a go after having modelled in lots of different scales over the years and the fact that it works in a small space sounds like a great advantage.
It is a shame that Hornby have a somewhat interesting strategy with regards to distribution in Australia. From the analytics on this channel it seems like there's huge market over there which can't easily get the products they want. Thanks for watching 😃
Yes think also because it has been selling so well stocks may also run out before it is actually being able to be sent to Australia, maybe not sure.
Got back into the hobby last year, found out about TT scale, grabbed my calculator, in TT scale N gauge scales to 3'6" and Z gauge to 2'6". Not many scales allow Aussies to model mainline on 12mm, 3'6" on N, 2'6 on Z. As far as I am concerned it is a near perfect scale. For portable use, Kato N gauge, Rokuhan Z track snap tracks allow for narrow gauge running. I likewise went to a model expo last year, ended up buying 2 3D Anycubic Mono 2 resin printers. FYI Qld TT120 7ft wagons are almost exactly the same size as Peco/Lima 9ft wagons in N 1:148 scale.
@@babbagebrassworks4278 well didn't realise that I have modelled QR in HOn3-6 and I first heard about TT120 as being use as to build a QR Loco think it's a B 18 1/4. But I am going to stay with TT120. Although at home I have also started a 009 layout but did if using 009 n gauge track a real challenge.
I really love this scale, just looking forward to the forthcoming GWR/WR releases such as the Castle and Pannier plus Green era diesels, oh and a Western and Hymek 👌
I often hear a lot of people wanting Western engines for TT:120 so it seems like the GWR crowd are big on the scale. If I were Hornby (or any other manufacturer) I'd take note of that! Thanks for watching 😃
I to am waiting for these and these will most likely make me purchase TT:120. I like the current diesel locomotives and HST, but LNER loco's are slight love or hate group for me. I like the J50 and A4, but the A3, A1, A2's just tend to be a bit of a boring loco to me.
A sign of the times I guess that you need to remind people to keep the comments civil …
A well balanced video. TT isn’t for me, but it’s a nice start and a very daring move by Hornby. I wish them the best of luck with it.
I did mention it in the video - not that it ever works - and I'm doing my best to moderate the comments. Generally I feel it's better to transition things to a managed debate than just shut people down. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi there. As a 50 year member of 3mm Society i decided to give tt120 a try with my new railway of Acton Wells Junction. 20ft x 5ft. The reason being that hornby was giving me the chance for 37,50,66 and HSTs. I have 2x 08s and need 3 more. The steamers will be ones that are preserved. I have just finished the junction and starting the fiddle yard with the new double straights. Need flexitrack to make it easier. Louis is a great designer of the tta wagons and hopefully 37 will be just as good. caroline
Awesome sounds like a great project and nice to see those from the 3mm Society taking an interest in TT. I gather that the launch of Hornby's range has also boosted the membership of the society slightly too. Thanks for watching 😃
3mm is doing well at shows with new members as you say. thanks for your channel. With Chris and co these are great for the tt scale. caroline
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I joined the 2mm Scale Association, their wheels and wagons are very close to Queensland 3'6" stuff in TT scale. I use 2.5mm as my scale to save brain burnout converting, TT 1:122, more than close enough.
I think variety is great. It's a nice scale because its smaller than OO/HO but not as small as N. I think I would buy a set or three and build a layout for fun then have an OO/HO for ops. I think it will survive - Hornby have been in the game a long time, so I think they know what they are doing. As with the other scales and as with the wargaming (GW) stuff, 3D printing can also boost the scale, so print what you cannot get at the moment or lasercut the structures, etc.
For me the appeal of TT:120 is being able to run decent length trains in a small space while I tend to fall back on 00 for more intricate operations. I agree that 3D printing and laser cutting are huge benefits for the hobby in general - if TT had launched a few years ago when they weren't as popular/common it might have had a much harder time. Thanks for watching 😃
Nice video and very well put. I agree with everything except I believe it can be a “model railway” and not just “a train set”. Keep up the good work 😊
Glad you enjoyed it John! Oh absolutely, I don't think there's much distinction between a "model railway" and "train set" anyway. Some people tend to look down upon "train set" style layouts but personally I think they both have a place within the hobby and serve different interests. Thanks for watching 🤩
I think I was rather cynical at first, especially with previous Hornby side projects (Steampunk?) And I was pretty frustrated with how quick things were being released while waiting 3 years for the Ruston 88DS in North British Distillery livery, however Hornby did clear up that factory capacity wasn't affected by the TT stuff because it was in a different factory. So I've been interested in watching it develop as a range from Hornby and as a scale in general. I model in 00, but dabble in N from times and agree that N stuff can be pretty finnickety at times. I don't model in TT (who knows what the future might bring? ...not on my budget xD though yes this is the thing of the scale being more for newly introducing people to model train ownership) BUT the TT colmans wagon I've seen looks fantastic and almost worth owning just to look at. With the announcement of the J50 it looks like we could see the evolution of some TT Eastern region lner branch line layouts, maybe even terminus to fiddleyard arrangements with automatic uncoupling? And with 3d printing an 0-6-0 steam chassis could hold plenty of potential for industrial tanks or even mainline locos not yet available.
Nice to see a video providing multiple viewpoints on the range without too much scepticism too. Again, like I said I was cynical initially but I am trying to change my ways 😉
Nice to hear from someone who was originally cynical towards the range who has since softened their stance. I also think it's fine to dislike and even have genuine misgivings about TT as long as it isn't a simple knee jerk reaction.
I agree the J50 opens up some interesting new possibilities and hopefully we'll start to see more variety in the layouts people build rather than the typical tail chaser layouts (guilty as charged on this one! 😅) Thanks for watching 🤩
Excellent input Beaglinton.
Good video and I agree with pretty much everything you say.
It's also worth asking WHY Hornby launched TT120.
Model railways is often described as a hobby for rich old men. And there's a lot of truth in that. The age profile is very old. Those old men aren't going to be around for al that much longer and they're not being replaced in sufficient numbers by younger modellers.
This means Hornby's market is getting smaller each year. Clearly Hornby have to increase their market if they want to remain in business. And TT120 is their attempt to do so.
It's aimed at families and getting a new generation into the hobby. whether it will we'll have to see, but the fact it takes up much less room than OO is a big advantage.
TT has another big advantage over OO for Hornby. OO is a UK based gauge. TT on the other hand is also popular in the US, Europe and Japan so Hornby have access to a much bigger market with TT. The class 66 was chosen for this reason as it's used all over Europe in the real world so with just a change of livery will sell in Europe. In time I expect Hornby will make other European, American and Japanese locos in TT, though I suspect it will be some time away.
TT also gives Hornby the chance to correct the anomalies of OO and make models from scratch that can take advantage of advances in technology since Frank Hornby's time. e.g having an accurate scale, all models with modern tooling and able to use chips, etc.
Personally I'm quite tempted to make the switch to TT. Mainly due to the fact I can have a more extensive layout. And because having got back into the hobby during lockdown I don't have a long establised layout. My current OO one was always going to be temporary and somewhere I can play trains whilst trying stuff out before making a more permanent layout. it's also a bit cheaper than OO in most regards.
Yes it does seem that TT:120 is more popular with those exploring the hobby for the first time and generally those people tend to be younger than more establish models. I definitely think the integration with HM7000 has helped this in a big way too. Thanks for watching 😃
Really enjoyed this video, I love TT 120 and I’ll give an arm and a leg to get my hands on that HST….hang on that might not work out for model building!😂😂. Keep up the good work ❤. Greetings from downunder.
Thank you, I suspect this one might ruffle some feathers among those who have taken against the scale so I'll need all the support I can get 😅
The HST is fantastic - it might even be the best TT model yet and according to Hornby it's been very popular.... though I'm not sure I'd give up limbs for any model train to be honest! Thanks for watching 🤩
I have just started modelling in T and am thoroughly enjoying it as I am limited on space and n gauge is too small for me to model
Amazing, great to hear you're enjoying it. It does seem to offer a nice compromise between 00 and N in terms of size and ease of use. Thanks for watching 😃
Great overview! I think you’re spot on that initially this is aimed at those looking to get started. Day one, Hornby was never going to have a range to challenge OO or N. Hornby aimed at the largest addressable market first (those starting out). As the range expands, we will see increasing sophistication and diversity of options. For now, TT will rely on those entering the hobby. But as things progress, I think serious modelers might start rethinking TT.
This is really decade-long project. Much work needs to be done. But the future looks bright!
I think as well, Hornby don't really want TT:120 to become a huge scale. It's probably nicer for them as a more niche side project that works well alongside their 00 gauge range... similar to how Bachmann has it's narrow gauge ranges. Thanks for watching 😃
A good balanced view TMG, and whilst it is not for me I agree much of the reaction is more about Hornby than the scale, although I do wonder if the full range of RTR manufacturers will expand the model offers in time? Love the edits that make the HST go well beyond scale speed 😉!
It does seem a lot of the negativity is about Hornby rather than the scale. I don't remember there being this much anger when Heljan/Bachmann moved into 009... or even with Bachmann's new NG7 range. If anything the discussion was overwhelmingly positive in those instances. Thanks for watching 😃
Thank you for a well balanced video, its a great scale and i am loving it.
My pleasure, glad to hear you're enjoying TT:120. I suspect you're not alone as the scale really does have a lot to offer. Thanks for watching 😃
I do think some of the negativity towards TT is the "Hornby effect". Bachmann essentially released a new scale with NG7, as again O16.5 (or NG7 now) seems a small scale but I've seen nothing but praise for the announcement!
Absolutely, I have a feeling if it wasn't TT:120 it would be something else that people would be complaining about. Thanks for watching 😃
Great video, lots of food for thought. I've spent the last 30 years building up a OO collection of engines and rolling stock, and with the age of some of them I haven't even looked at DCC, never mind changing scale 😊 I DID wonder what impact TT would have, and whether I should consider changing, and I think you've provided a really balanced view 👍 I don't even have my own layout yet, I run them on my local model club layout, but I'm wanting to start one soon. With the investment I've already made, i think I'll stick with OO 😊
I definitely think this a position a lot of people will find themselves in. They're already invested in 00 (emotionally and financially) so making the switch isn't the smart option. Likewise Hornby don't seem to be aiming this at folks with an established collection in an existing scale, I do think those starting from nothing have the most to gain from TT:120. Thanks for watching 😃
Thanks for sharing your balanced thoughts.
I try my best though I'll always favour a more positive slant! Thanks for watching 😃
Always preferred the original Triang TT to 00 scale so was intrested in this new line by Hornby. Haven't bought anything yet but if they bring out some GWR stuff, especially tank engines , I'll give a TT GWR branch line a go. Interesting video.
I'm actually amazed PECO haven't collaborated with someone to produce a small GWR tank engine to go with all their buildings and signals. Something similar to how they did the Small England in 009 with Kato - I reckon it would go down really well. Thanks for watching 😃
Thanks for such a well balanced overview of TT120. There seem to be far too many negative TH-cam clips circulating at the moment. As for me, I have just completed my 13th 00 scale layout, having restarted the hobby some 20 years ago. I find that I am now seriously looking at building a TT layout simply from the perspective of space. Whilst my 00 scale adequately fits a large room, TT will enable me to consider wide sweeping curves and longer coach/wagon haulage. For the moment your video has tempted me to buy a starter set (which is good value for money) and wait and see what additional items will be released over the next year or two, including a greater range of buildings, tunnel portals and maybe even a turntable, although I may have to scratch build one of these. Given Hornby's foray into this new scale, I wonder if the likes of Bachmann and Dapol will now seriously look at joining the club - that would be a great addition for modelers in providing a wider range of choice and encourage more modellers to 'upgrade' their existing 00 scale. N Scale has always been a flop for me and I suspect others who have imperfect eyesight. Look forward to further videos outlining the TT build. Great support from TMC. Cheers, Richard, Melbourne Australia
Sadly with TH-cam it's much more lucrative to be negative about something like this and it's a shame so many have taken the bait. Great to hear you're considering TT:120 after having built so many layouts in 00. From my perspective, TT certainly lends itself well to layouts that wouldn't be achieved able in 00 and would be a challenge in N too.
I doubt Bachmann will take up TT:120 as they already have 009 as their extra scale and they seem to be doubling down on narrow gauge with their NG7 range too. Dapol are perhaps a bit more likely because they work in so many different scales already... but equally that could be a reason they don't go for it. Time will tell! Thanks for watching 😃
Very popular in the former GDR, or Eastern Germany. And you often see kit houses that fit well on a smaller layout that are made for TT and H0 (for the areas where a big house does not fit). Auhagen in Germany makes a lot of that sort of material. Well detailed. I will stick to H0 now, but if I would start again, TT would be a nice option. Thank you for your nice videos! Greetings from the Netherlands.🇳🇱
Yes this was what I was alluding too when I mentioned TT:120 had a following outside the UK in Europe. Thanks for watching 😃
TT has been an on and off proposition since the 1950s I remember that in the 1960s that there was even brass locomotives available.TT is mainly seen in Eastern Europe. It’s a scale like S is there trying to come in from the fringe. I couldn’t afford it as a kid and I’m now firmly entrenched in HO and have been for over 50 years.
The Triang TT of the 50s/60s was a slightly different scale to be able to accommodate the larger motors of the time. TT:120 though seems to have been pretty continuous in Europe even if it hasn't been as popular as H0. As I said in the vide though, I don't think TT is intended to rip people away from their existing scale/gauge. It's just another option for those yet to start or anyone that wants a bit of a change. Thanks for watching 😃
I forgot to mention that TT track is the basis for HOn3
Hello I do N, OO and TT to me it’s a bit of fun. I am looking forward to the 50. Go luck with your videos. Cheers Roger
Amazing, you'll have a great insight into the Pros & Cons of each scale then. I'm looking forward to the 50 too - should be really interesting to see how it compares to the HSTs. Thanks for watching 😃
Thanks as ever. I’m loving TT. I saw your scalescenes hut. When I was thinking of giving N a go (no room for OO) I tried building some scalescenes in N. Well, some can do it…!! TT is the perfect scale for me. Thank you Hornby. You know, I regularly visit local model railway shows, and there are only ever a handful of us under the age of 65. If Hornby are bringing new, younger people into the hobby, then many of the naysayers will be silenced… time does that.
Yeah the Scalescenes stuff is pretty tricky in TT so I couldn't begin to think about building them in N! 😅
I do think we are seeing more younger modellers take up TT:120 - it seems to work well for those that don't have the time/space for more substantial layouts. Thanks for watching 👍
Heljian doing 24, 25, 33, 44/5/6, 56 etc would be good. Or if accurascale brought a similar to 00 Manor that brilliant
Both would be great - unlikely to happen anytime soon I suspect though. But I'm with you, I'd love to see it! Thanks for watching 😃
I’ve recently retired . I’ve built up a large loft layout since I was a boy in 1965 , it just grew and grew with old locos , brand new ones , all regions . But now I’ve retired I’ve got the space for something new downstairs . I can see the possibilities for TT120 and I’m really interested . The blank sheet opportunity is exciting . For me it’s not a minimum space layout though but something with a bit of operational interest .That HST combined with HM7000 sound has got me seriously thinking . I think I might buy one of the sets for delivery later this year . For me had they introduced the 37 and 47 instead of the 50 and Duchess now , them it would have been much easier to do a cohesive BR. blue layout . Some of the initial choices in the range have been baffling . For Blue Grey HST Mk3s and mk1s would have surfaced . Why mk2s . Yes great for later introduction but not essential now . The Duchess and Staniers seem to be outliers with not much in the range to complement them . Yes great for the future but might it not have been better to have advanced the 9F or Black 5 to give something to pull these trucks with .
The HST is tempting . I may just invest for that model anyway. I think for me Hornby need to deliver a bit more over the next two years before you can say the gauge is established . Beyond Peco introducing track and some wagons I don’t see them going further than a few lineside kits . What is really needed is another manufacturer to join in . That might be an existing European manufacturer like Piko but I still think Heljan could be interested . If it can be shown that a new TT120 model can yield more sales and margin than a duplication of an OO model then they might still come in with a model . As Hornby are intent on a 31 , I’d say a 25 or 20 is probably decent or perhaps 26/27/33 families assuming there’s some synergy in these models (they have them in their O and OO ranges , so a lot of preliminary work complete)
Awesome, sounds like a good plan and the HST starter sets that are coming soon seem like a really cost effective way of picking those up.
I think for Hornby the initial focus was on announcing big steam locos because they know these are popular. Presumably as the scale continues to grow we'll see more of the gaps filled in so that more realistic layouts can be built - we're already starting to see that with the J50 to compliment the LNER locos. Who knows, they may have stuff up their sleeve that they haven't announced yet. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Looking forward to seeing more of your layout and hopefully grabbing some idea
TT worked for me. I’ve not had a 00 gauge layout since I was 7 and that’s 42 years ago. I’ve never had the room for 00 since so lost interest. So I bought a “TT120 train set” and a HST, set it up on the kitchen table. 4 of my kids just stared at it for an hour and just wanted the iPhone to play with it. Been to one show and going to another this weekend. Hornby has done what they set out to and got an old fan back interested and got younger fans interested with the gadgets. Maybe a “casual” user just now but I can see that moving onto more. And even with a big house later in life we don’t have long enough for 00 gauge 9 loco setups twisting through scenery setup. So maybe we go big with the small TT gauge, and maybe then not be a “casual” user 😊
This is awesome to hear and I'm glad it's got your kids interested too! I do think you guys are exactly who TT:120 is aimed at like you say, what may start as a casual pastime now may expand into something bigger in the future. Best of luck and thanks for watching 😃
I’m enjoying TT. I bought The Easterner and an 08. So far so good.
Awesome, great to hear you're having a good time with the scale so far! Thanks for watching 😃
Great video, it is indeed all about fun. I really enjoy my Kato N gauge USA outline and older LGB G gauge German trains but I think TT is a good in between scale. I seriously considered it and have designed a small layout should I end up moving to an apartment in Gibraltar as was on the cards at the time. It never happened so I still have the train room but I like what Hornby have done. They seem to have sorted the dcc issue in as much as its really easy for beginners to grasp digital over DC. Still not convinced about the Hornby marketing strategy (never once had a TT advert appear in my browser, 85% of which is used for browsing anything model railway) but I wish them well all the same.
It is all about fun - couldn't have put it better myself. Yes the HM7000 system is a great companion to TT:120 and I suspect works very well for Hornby's target audience for the scale who are more used to being able to control everything through a smartphone.
I'm not sure Hornby need to promote the scale all that much though given that it's been more popular than they anticipated. Why spend the money on advertising if people are already buying. Thanks for watching 😃
I think TT 120 looks like a fun scale. I love all scales. I am enjoying your layout build for your father. Please be kind to others even if TT 120 isn't for you. You still can learn things building layouts in any scale.
GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖
Absolutely, it's good that here (at least in relation to the new layout build) people have generally been more positive than negative. Thanks for watching 😃
I have become interested in the scale because I am moving into a two bedroom maisonette flat soon (once decorating is completed) and it seems a ideal scale for that size property. I have had experience with N scale helping control a layout. Only thing i find with N gauge it is great for long length running but if they derail they can be fiddly to re-rail. Like you said its early days and its the slow release of models that is hampering the scale. I am eagerly awaiting the GWR items especially the 57xx Pannier they have planned.
Yeah I found with N Gauge that the weight of locos and rolling stock can make derailments or stalling more common. With TT:120 I haven't found that issue yet and it seems to be a good compromise between 00 and N - not that either of those doesn't have a place of course. Thanks for watching 😃
Pitchforks. This does not just happen with model railways. The comments are not original or evidence based. It is just a tedious side-product of social media.
I think that's the most frustrating thing. I don't mind people not liking the scale, especially if they have valid reasons but a lot of the naysayers just regurgitate arguments that aren't actually true. Thanks for watching 😃
I agree , with most of what you say , we pick the scale you want and have fun with it .
Absolutely, regardless of what scale someone chooses to work in it's all about having fun - it is a hobby after all. Thanks for watching 😃
Well balanced discussion, As for the moaners bet most don't even have a layout . TT will survive and grow ,As for the price ,yes it is expensive save up and stop whining.
Yes it's often those who have the least experience who shout the loudest. Thanks for watching 😃
West hill wagon works tt120 products are great too. caroline
I've used their products on my 00 gauge layout, looking forward to trying some of their TT stuff in the future too. Thanks for watching 😃
Years ago I went from OO TO N gauge. The quality was superb and the extra amount of space on a 8' X 4' board was for me amazing. Horses for courses. Great video.
Yeah definitely if you wanted to get more onto a standard baseboard size, until recently N Gauge was the only way to go. Now we have N, 009 and TT to choose from so it's interesting to note how the hobby has changed in the last decade alone. Thanks for watching 😃
Great vid, my thoughts on TT is very similar to yourself. I have thought about TT for my layout for getting more into a smaller loft space, BUT…. The main thing putting me off if the fact you said about buildings and other aspects of scenics. Not been a very experienced modeller myself I like building metcalfe kits ect, these not been available in TT, I’ve had various track mats back in my childhood days in 00 and still have the locos and rolling stock and some buildings still. So I thought it silly to start again in TT. N scale isn’t a option for me as said it’s far too fiddly for me
Yes I definitely think that's a consideration for those who aren't used to scratch building or making kits. Obviously Hornby have their own range of ready to plant buildings but those come at a price.
If you like the Metcalfe kits (such a shame they have decided against TT:120!) then maybe check out Scalescenes. They're a little more tricky to build but it could be low cost way of seeing if the scale is right for you or not. Thanks for watching 🤩
Very interesting. When I returned to the hobby a year ago after many decades away, I did look at TT:120 but as I came from a 00 gauge background and the choices were slim in TT:120 at that time, I opted for 00 again. I like the idea but agree that this will not have people rushing out to replace their present layouts with TT:120 and it does seem more 'train set' than 'model railway'. Will be interesting to see how it is adopted and by who.
A perfectly reasonable decision in my opinion. TT:120 isn't going to be right for everyone and that's absolutely fine. It's hard to ignore the widespread reach of 00 gauge but similarly I don't think the intention is to get people to convert to TT anyway. Thanks for watching 😃
If I was starting with a blank canvas today I would probably go with TT. I know there is not too many locos just yet but with 2/3 coming out over the next year or so this is similar to what I buy in OO anyway. Would be great to see another manufacturer produce a versatile loco to compliment Hornby’s range
Yeah by the end of this year we should have a really decent amount of models available. I have to admit though I'm surprised PECO haven't done a one-off small GWR loco to go with their range of buildings and signals. Something like they did with the Small England with Kato in 009. Thanks for watching 😃
For us Germans, especially in the areas of the former GDR, TT:120 is very widespread. We are therefore pleased that we also have access to British models. Especially if the Class 66 comes out later, which also runs in Germany, or a Hogwarts Express, because many in Germany of course know the Harry Potter films. I am pleased that there is now a manufacturer in Great Britain who has now taken the step to make TT available for the British market.
Great to hear TT is doing well overseas as well and that there's interest in the new British outline models. Yes I can imagine the Class 66 will be a big success for Hornby on that basis!
Sadly I don't think they'll be doing a Hogwarts Express any time soon since they don't have the license anymore - but you never know. Thanks for watching 😃
All good points and a well balanced video. However I’m old enough to remember when the original TT was no longer produced. Those friends who had gone down that route were devastated and some would have been lost to the hobby for ever. Let’s hope history is not repeated.
True but even so, the original TT/3mm scale still has a small but enthusiastic community to this day. From Hornby's point of view it seems to have been more popular than they anticipated so it would be odd to see that community disappear as long as they keep releasing models and supporting the scale. Thanks for watching 😃
While I am into OO scale and never liked the idea of N scale (too fiddly for me) I do think the TT:120 so a great concept especially for those who have not yet invested in the hobby. Seeing you build a layout using this scale is excellent both in general but also to see the benefits of this new scale. I can see the benefits of fitting a lot into a small space and being able to run longer trains. Many thanks
Yeah I definitely think a lot of the people taking up TT:120 are new to the hobby or have had a previous interest but never had a layout before. It certainly seems like, with the HM7000 integration too it's aiming itself at first time layout builders who want something easy to construct that can still look fantastic. Thanks for watching 🤩
Def a more balanced view than many...certainly works and as you said the hobby needs new people and this scale is moe accessible. My issue is that lack of second hand market and scenics hence I went to N to do what I wanted in my space I have. If the range was bigger and at least one more manufacturer...its a pity Hornby pinched the ideas that Heljan was going to do to try and enter the space as duplicates really don't help anyone especially in a new scale but outside of that lets hope it grows.
And likewise that is a perfectly valid reason for not going with TT. I actually think N is one of the best options if you have a limited budget and as a established scale there's a lot to choose from.
I don't think Hornby pinched Heljan's ideas though as it's pretty clear they had their plan set out for a long time. In my opinion Heljan got scared when they saw how committed Hornby were and pulled out incredibly quickly. But if they'd have stuck with it they could have had some of their TT models out by now. It's a shame they pulled out but I suspect Hornby was just a good excuse for them to do so. Thanks for watching 😃
I think you perhaps underestimate the appeal to established modellers who enjoy operating. My dream OO gauge layout has remained just that because I cannot dedicate the space. Dioramas, shunting puzzles - they have their place but sometimes it just more fun to watch the trains go round. The TT:120 layout is getting built and to echo something said in the video, I am enjoying getting on with it.
As for N, I have been helping finish off a local layout and it is indeed more demanding to work with than TT:120, unless you use Kato track with the built-in ballast. The deciding point for me not to switch to N is that, subjectively, it just does not work for me visually. I fully respect that opinions differ on this so this is just how I personally react to the UK scale stock.
A MERG member recently made the point that the modelling magazines with their high-quality photographs have unwittingly encouraged a static approach to modelling with the aim of achieving unprecedented levels of realism. With the wider accessibility of video as a medium he believed this could now change and operating the layout would receive more attention. I believe he has a point. TT:120 is in a good position to benefit from this trend, if it is real. I have been won over, and so has my wife. We will build this next layout together.
I forgot to mention the track. At last, the scaling is consistent out-of-the-box after decades of compromise. ❤
Yes that's a good point to mention too. I think now that we have the J50 on the way, an LNER/BR mainline style station with the 0-6-0 acting as a pilot is a very attractive option for those that like operating their layouts.
I agree that video is becoming a lot more important within the hobby - look at the amount of TH-cam channels that have popped up in the last few years (mine included!). It's always frustrating at shows when you see a fantastic looking layout but it's not capable of running trains consistently. Social media is moving more towards video as a way of sharing our lives so it makes sense the hobby would mirror this, especially as most of the magazines now have TH-cam channels of their own too. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi! Sorry this question is completely unrelated to the video, but I didn’t know where else to leave it 😂
I bought a Dean Goods from Oxford Rail, and it just arrived today. While the loco may look amazing, and was a very good price, I am having some running issues with it. The first thing I noticed was that the loco was not smooth and very noisy at low speeds, despite the fact I’ve generally heard that these were good runners. I figured that maybe the loco had just been siting for a bit though and perhaps the lubricant has dried out. Another issue occurred though, as there is a burning smell coming from the tender, which I presume is likely ether the circuit board or the decoder socket. I don’t know whether these issues will clear with some running in, or if the model is faulty, so I thought I’d ask if these issues sound normal and are nothing to worry about, or if I should be sending it back. I also thought of removing the tender body to see if there was smoke coming from a resistor or something like that, but I didn’t know if that would void the warranty…
Thanks!
Generally my opinion is that if you're unhappy with how a model looks or performs then you should really contact whoever you bought it from to see how they can help.
I can't say I have any experience with the Dean Goods but I feel like I've heard something about the original batch having an issue with the motor (or possibly the mechanism) but that this had possibly been fixed on subsequent batches. I may be mis-remembering though or getting mixed up with something else.
I tend to run in a loco before making a final decision as this can help but if you can smell burning already that doesn't sound like a good sign. Removing the tender body won't invalidate the warranty since if you were running on DCC you would need to fit the decoder there anyway. Sorry I can't be of more help but I'd let the retailer know as they can advise better. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy thanks for the tips! The original batch had motor issues, but on later runs the motor was upgraded to a coreless motor, and now they have been reported to run fine! I contacted the owner of the shop I bought it from right before leaving my comment here, and he said that the electrical could just be wearing in, so I am going to continue running it in, but if the problem doesn’t go away I will probably return it, as I don’t really want a faulty loco, and more so I don’t want to start a fire 😂. I might also remove the tender body, just to see if there is a short or something, and I do plan to DCC fit the loco anyways! Thanks for the tips 👍
I had OO gauge train sets as a kid, never got as far as creating a model railway with scenery and buildings and the like. I was having serious thoughts about constructing a layout in OO or N when TT:120 came along. It got my attention straight away and I’ve now got a couple of locos along with various coaches and wagons and plenty of track, and also a Class 50 on pre-order. For buildings I’m using Scalescenes downloadable kits. There’s an extensive range and because you print them yourself, they can be scaled down from OO to TT:120.
Amazing, great to hear TT:120 has captured your attention - I suspect your story is fairly similar to a lot of other TT modellers! Best of luck with the layout and thanks for watching 😃
Ditto.
Although I was N gauge as a kid. I decided a year ago that the new home had a space in the attic for a model train layout. Seriously contemplated OO but the hype from Hornby and TT120 got me and the idea of doing so much more with the layout and of course HM7000 has made it all rather exciting.
Though the layout build plans are a little on the slow side, having two young kids does not help!
The problem with TT is the lack of different types of locomotives. All we got are express locomotives. We need goods/shunters to be in the range.
First time I've seen a Class 08 referred to as an express loco 😉 Don't forget that we also have the J50 coming later this year too.
But Hornby have, rightly so in my opinion, started off with big popular express engines that they know will sell well. I suspect we'll see more smaller locos over the next few years especially as people make their voices heard on this subject. Hornby have publicly acknowledged it too and revealed they had a few in the works. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy TBH I have to disagree with you. Hornby should have made a LMS black five or a BR Standard 5 when the range is brand new.
@@gamerfan8445 They can't please everyone. But don't forget the TT models are generally based of the CAD work they already have for their 00 gauge models. The all new Black 5 has literally only just be released in 00 so now they have the designs for that they can start working on a TT version.
There is a j94 and a pannier coming also at some point both tank engines
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy what's the next batch of locomotives to come the duchess j94 9f black 5 castle class class 50 class 66 pannier tank class 37
I think that Hornby missed a trick by not issuing any equipment for people trying to build a shelf layout and not a layout built on a door. A ‘Bubble Car” DMU would have been ideal and could be painted in various schemes depending on the era. A simple piece of rolling stock and potentially a good seller. I’ve actually got a layout board of just under 4 foot long ready to go, and I actually like this scale, but I’m not really part of the target audience. A great video by the way.
That sort of stuff might come later (and I'd love to see a DMU of some sort) but right now I think they're doing a great job of sticking to their target audience who wants a circuit based train set.
A shelf style layout is usually the domain of more serious modellers who, so far are the demographic most against TT:120. Hornby could try and win them over by releasing a set geared towards them but it's a lot of time/effort/money just to try and please a rather vocal minority. Or they could continue releasing the sets they know are already popular. Thanks for watching 😃
me
if they keep doing LNER stuff, their going to do the best beans known as the O4's, and i will buy them. i do not care for the cost to ship it to Canada, i want a tiny O4 and rollingstock, i also do plan on picking up some of the other stuff for the range when i get a job-
At the moment I think Hornby's plan is to make models they already have design work for. The A4, A3 and J50 all fit into this category nicely whereas Hornby have never made an LNER O4 so it could be a while before they get round to it. Thanks for watching 👍
Also forgot to add Hornby have looked at the current size of most new build homes now and what people forget is a new build family home tends to be smaller in size with hardly any garden for a large shed to house a large 00 layout and N or TT might be the only mainline railway model railway option (009 is ideal if you want to do narrow gauge). Yes some may have a garage for a 00 scale layout but the vast majority of them haven't.
Yes I wouldn't have been surprised if Hornby initially looked at 009 as a possible option for smaller layouts but decided against it seeing how Bachmann, Heljan and PECO were already dominating the scale. Thanks for watching 😃
I wish there was a way to see this scale outside the UK as I'm looking at getting some tt120 in NZ
It is available in some Australian more specialised hobby shops.
TT scale on N gauge - NZ120 make sense. I am doing QR120, got 3D printer and can code.
I believe it's more popular in Europe and the US whereas in the UK it's still relatively new. I know Hornby have some distributors in Australia - I don't know whether they supply New Zealand too - but from the sound of things it's still not that easy to get hold of which is a shame. Thanks for watching 😃
Search TH-cam for :
Hearns Hobbies Hornby TT
For a surprising amount of TT coverage from this near eighty year old hobby business located under Melbourne's Flinders Street station.
@ThatModelRailwayGuy I also like that they have started with the likes of the Scotsman, Mallard, and HST as I have a marklin layout, but I wouldn't mind getting those without having to get OO hence my enthusiasm for tt120.
I started in N Gauge and found it to be too fiddley and if I am honest, a bit of a rip off so I switched OO gauge. However, if I had the time again I'd seriously look at TT:120 just for the space it takes up. I have been to a number of shows and seen the TT:120 range of locos which is continue to grow. What does impress me the most is how many third party companies are making 3D printed easy to assemble model buildings and items. I can see the scale growing. I hope that a company like Accurascale, Revolution Trains or Bachmann take the plunge and start making wagons and locos in this scale. If that happens I can see the TT:120 scale really growing in strength. Nice to hear what you have to say on the subject and I am defo taking a serious interest in your experience building the layout. Tim
That's definitely interesting to hear Tim. I suspect there are a few people like you for who TT:120 would have been a good option had it been established a bit earlier.
I definitely think 3D printing and laser cutting is a huge advantage for TT - to the point where, had it launch a decade ago when these skills were less common, it may not have had as much support as it does currently.
I think Bachmann have ruled themselves out and are focusing more on their 009 and new NG7 ranges currently. Accurascale I think are focused 00 and their new 0 gauge release too so unlikely from them too but I would love to see it happen. I don't know much about RevolutioN but my impression is that they already have enough models on their plate without adding more. Not that I wouldn't love more manufacturers to enter the scale but being realistic I think it'll be a while before they do. Thanks for watching 😃
Thank you for a balanced assessment!
I would be tempted by this scale except for its limited selection of Locomotives and rolling stock
(I model N gauge).
TT120 may be a bit more popular in Europe but it’s still rare to see at exhibitions either by modellers or stockists at any shows in eastern France/ western Germany.
My local railway model shop (Uberhernn, Germany) doesn’t stock any as there’s just no interest in it.
And as for Hornby in Europe, it’s generally seen as overpriced and poor quality control by operators and also the company is difficult to deal with by traders.
And OO is the “wrong scale”.
At least TT overcomes the UK/European scale differences😊
Unfortunately, with personal anecdotal experience, Hornby (and Airfix) have a long way to go to break into the European market.
Which is a real shame.
Maybe Hornby TT120 will break the ice in this respect 😊
I certainly hope so!
Thanks,
Ian
Lost in France !
I think that's a fair assessment on your own part too. It's definitely true that TT:120 doesn't have the same reach as 00, H0 or N and certainly for a lot of modellers it's going to be better off going for a more established scale.
As for Hornby breaking into Europe - I don't think that's something they're interested in. They already have their own Continental brands (Arnold, Jouef, Electrotren, Rivarossi, Lima, etc) and the main Hornby brand itself is firmly focused on British outline so probably of limited interest to those overseas - especially when 00 isn't really a thing outside of the UK. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy That’s a fair point too about the other brands already being here.
It’s possibly why Airfix breaking into Europe isn’t a priority either.
Anyway 😊
I don’t comment often but I enjoy your channel a lot👍🏼
Ian
OO gauge has been going since the 1930s when most houses had large rooms. TT:120 is something for the future. There is no such thing as a 'spare room' in modern Britain and most modellers are extremely restricted by the available space. Taking into consideration the cost of the baseboard and trackwork, there is a considerable cost saving in going for TT:120. I think TT:120 will bring many more people into model railways, so don't knock it! Thanks for uploading.
Yes it definitely gives people more options going forward as space becomes a premium. TT seems a good size for a layout that can be stored away easily without breaking - I've tried to do that with N in the past and there always seemed to be some issue with the track when it was brought back out again. Additionally I don't think 00 is going anywhere either. It'll still be the most popular scale by a long stretch! Thanks for watching 😃
I don’t at all dislike TT, and if it helps the hobby grow, then I’m all for it! Unfortunately, it isn’t for me, but that’s okay! The bigger issue I think though is that TT:120 is very close to the same size as British N Gauge, and there is so much more choice on locos and rolling stock. I get your point with N Gauge being fiddly, and at times it can be, but as hornby picked TT:120, the size difference really isn’t that big. I hope this scale grows, but I am a little nervous that this could easily become a very bad financial decision…
I do defenitly agree though that there has been way too much negativity towards the scale, and therefore I am happy to see the scale has been popular (as it does make people trying to make the hobby a war field learn to 🤐). Overall, I wish Hornby an TT modellers good luck with getting started in the scale, and I hope it does stay around for the sake of the hobby growing, and because I don’t want to see Hornby go under. Sure, Hornby have made some mistakes over the last few years, but if Hornby disappears, that would be bad for all modellers, and I really hope that TT positively effects Hornby, rather than negatively!
As someone who has had experience with both N and TT, that 0.5mm makes a world of difference. I don't know why but TT trains feel more substantial and stable than N in my opinion. As far as financial situation goes, TT:120 appears to be selling really well so I can't see it affecting Hornby negatively... it may even help them. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy interesting! I’ve never had experience with TT, but my club does have a small N Gauge layout, and in all honesty I actually have found N Gauge is shockingly sturdy for the size! Nice to know that TT is even more so!! It does seem like TT may help Hornby, and it definitely was a good decision to start stocking it with retailers. I do think it should be supplied to all retailers though, as more exposer to the scale can’t be a bad thing! My friend who owns my local hobby shop has actually said that she has a lot of beginners that come in asking for advice, and a lot of them end up picking up their first train set, so I do think that in person exposer to the scale is still important!!
@@ModelRailwayFan38 Maybe it's just me that finds N gauge delicate then 😅 In the past I had a layout which could be stored away but it always needed some work on the track to get things working smoothly each time it was brought back out - my 009 suitcase layout is similar in this regard. TT in comparison feels more like 00 where a layout can be put away and brought out without much fuss, the advantage being that the size is closer to N. Ultimately though I don't think there's a one size fits all answer. The three different scales will have pros and cons for every individual.
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy fair enough, maybe N isn’t good for portable layouts just? If so that’s too bad, as one of the big advantages with smaller scales is that you can build a layout anywhere in basically any space!
Might be useful to create a sense of perspective at the back of an OO layout?
Definitely! I'd love to see a 00 terminus station of some sort with a TT mainline passing in the background - that would look fantastic! Thanks for watching 😃
I'm the obvious target market for TT:120 - I'm returning to the hobby and wanted something small enough for a modern house.
But... TT is eye-wateringly expensive!
Instead I went with Kato Unitrack N Gauge and am delighted. No issues at all with running and no derailments.
And way, way cheaper - loop of ballasted track £13, shunter and two wagons £17, two motorised points complete with control levers £33, trams with directional lights £33.
Beautifully detailed 2-6-0 steam loco with directional lighting and rake of four coaches with switchable rear lights £100.
Plus £20 postage from Japan.
Oh and it's all made in-house by Kato in Japan so highly consistent quality-wise.
Nothing against TT:120, just seems terrible value for money.
Kato is definitely another good option for those with limited space as (similar to the Hornby TT range) it's a complete system that can be really easy for beginners to start with.
Of course some of the Kato stuff is a lot less highly detailed than Hornby's TT range or even traditional N. That's not necessarily a bad thing, some people don't care about detail, but that's essentially where the extra cost is.
I note that the Kato Starter Sets tend to be around £200 so a similar price to the Hornby sets. The only one I found closer to £100 was a significantly more simple model so as with other scales, it indicates that the level of detail is a big factor in where the price is set. Thanks for watching 👍
I considered Kato but came to the conclusion that it only made sense for Japanese, USA or European outline. There is no question about the quality - my N-gauge modelling friend vouches for that. He models USA stock. If I buy in the UK I see little significant difference in the pricing compared to TT:120, like for like. I cannot agree that TT:120 is terrible value for money and neither is Kato even when you consider their detailed models.
The deciding point for me was that N gauge is just too small for me to enjoy operating the layouts. This is entirely subjective and I understand opinions differ.
I think it’s an interesting scale if you are starting out. When I came back to the hobby I went 009 because Heljan brought out their B&L locos as these interested me and it meant I could have a layout in a smaller area and Southern. Would I have gone tt120 if it was around then? Not with the range they brought out. Being a Southern steam modeller I’m disappointed with no southern stock, and too many express locos and no tank engines. I think Hornby need other manufacturers to have a range to give this scale a good future, just having one manufacturer will make new models slow to come to the market.
Yeah I think the TT:120 is perfect for those with limited space and fairly casual expectations.
The great thing with the L&B 009 models from Heljan of course was that it was a limited prototype. Along with PECOs complimentary rolling stock and track range it was easy to get a layout going pretty much straight away.
With TT:120 the scope is much wider but I think Hornby made the right discussion to go with the A4 and A3s first knowing how popular they are in 00. They can't do everything all at once after all. You say that the release of new models has been slow (and I don't entirely disagree with that) however we've got 4 models already with another 4 due to arrive before the end of the year - has any other manufacturer achieved that in a single scale with newly tooled locomotives recently? Thanks for watching 😃
Its ironic that you've posted this today, as ive visited 2 stores within my general area on a rare day off and the experience has left me full of doubt. Ive seen so much negativity surrounding the Scale and both stores were not very complementary on TT or Hornby in general.
I feel like TT is probably aimed at someone like myself.
A few years ago, i built up a small 00 layout using the Flying Scotsman and all the track packs. It was great but i had to move and so it went. I also built a small N layout which had a couple of engines, but ultimately the cost at the time stopped me from getting into it further.
A few years on and id really like to do a scenic layout and TT seems ideal. The scale means i can fit the layout ive had in my head all these years in my space. Their existing range does offer my two favourite trains (Scotsman and 125) so im actually well catered for. Given its a new product, i feel like they've released a lot in a short period.
There are probably lots of others out there who are in the same position as me. Close to pulling the trigger and getting into the hobby, but full of doubt from what they've seen and heard.
Out of curiosity, did those two stores stock TT:120? If not, I can see why they wouldn't be complementary about it since they would probably rather you buy from them in a scale they do stock.
You definitely sound like the perfect candidate for TT:120 and I'd try not to let the naysayers put you off. Depending on whether you're willing to wait, it might be worth following my TT layout build series to see what can be made with what's currently available. Then perhaps you'll be in a better place to decide whether or not you can achieve what you want with the scale. Thanks for watching 😃
@ThatModelRailwayGuy unsurprisingly no they did not. Sour grapes did spring to mind. Regardless, there was still plenty of hornby bashing. I get that people have their brand favourites, it's the same in the world of rc. It does have a different feel about it to that though. I'll carry on watching with interest. 👍
I wonder what your thoughts are on the way hornby seemed to cut out Heljan, at the start Heljan announced a set of locos and wagons with PECO, Heljan and another, but almost a week or 2 after Hornby announced a release of the same models, the timing just didn’t sit right and wonder what your thoughts on that are?
I don't think Hornby really cut them off, more Heljan pulled out very abruptly. They didn't seem all that serious about TT:120 and when they saw how big Hornby were going they probably felt they would be playing second fiddle before they'd even started. Let's not forget that both the Class 31 and Austerity were (and still are) very far down Hornby's list. In some ways Heljan had the upper hand and if they'd have focused their efforts could have got their models out well before Hornby.
As I said in the video, Hornby appear to be reaching out to gauge other manufacturers interest in TT:120 so I don't think it was malicious. Most likely they have a plan based on the existing designs they have in their 00 range that they're sticking too. Heljan could have equally stuck to their plan and, if past duplications are anything to go by, would have become the favourite... unless of course they felt they weren't up to the competition. It's a shame Heljan pulled out as it would be great to have them in the scale but it's more of a reflection on them than Hornby in my opinion. Thanks for watching 😃
Thanks for the video.
It certainly has made my mind up. It’s not for me. I’ve just completed an n gauge model layout that fits 1200 x 900 space. With double track circuit branch line climbing up to a terminal station. Yes it was fiddly . Not helped by the fact that I registered with a severe visual imparement. It took just over two years to complete.
TT just looks wrong to me.
I agree with you this is not a modellers set but a toy train set. Having said that if it does take off with more choice in motive power and rolling stock it could still catch on
To be fair, if I'd just completed a layout in one scale I wouldn't want to start from scratch in another one either 😅
TT is definitely going to be for a more casual modeller at the moment but as it start expanding I can definitely see it attracting more serious modellers as it becomes possible to recreate more prototypical scenes. Thanks for watching 👍
I've been toying which scale to use..I was in favour of N but after you saying delicate N I am going to start up again HO. Mainly price....
It's definitely still possible to build a layout using N but I just feel you have to be prepared to put in the extra work to get it running well. Thanks for watching 😃
Yeah I knew watching this before bed was a mistake, fell asleep halfway through, 😅
Glad to see someone else positive aboutthe range and it's future. I think we shouldn't judge this until we've had about 2-3 years worth of releases. That way we'll know it's here to stay and has a positive future. I for one am willing to give it a shot especially with promises of some of my fave locos on the horizon.
I tend to have that effect on people 😅
I completely agree, it's still very early days yet but with the amount Hornby have released so far (and with what they still have coming this year) it definitely seems to be in a good position. They wouldn't keep making stuff if people weren't buying it so that's a good sign. Thanks for watching 🤩
@ThatModelRailwayGuy I was already falling asleep anyway after a stressful day. Not fully your fault 😅
Agreed, there's a market for it. People just need to stop Hornby Bashing and accept TT120 is here for the foreseeable future.
As someone who has no intention of going back to having model railways I can see the benefit in having a scale less than 4mm but what would put me off would be the lack of secondhand examples that could be bought less expensively. I can only wait to see if this TT120 is still about in 5 years time.
Strangely enough I’ve been buying TT120 stock secondhand. I’ve bought A3 and A4’s for under £170 inc HM7000 decoder..
You can occasionally find stuff secondhand if you keep an eye out - but obviously a new scale only 18 months old is going to have less available than something like 00 or N that have been around for decades. Thanks for watching 😃
TT does seem quite interesting as a scale. I’m not fully invested yet as I’m still waiting to see a Bullied Pacific or any Southern locomotive.
I suspect you'll be waiting quite a while as there's nothing in Hornby's plans for the near future - but you never know they could surprise us. They'll probably get there eventually though. Thanks for watching 😃
Interesting video, and whether or not modellers like or dislike TT:120 is there opinion, while I won't be switching scales as I have an N gauge layout, I do enjoy watching any videos and layouts at exhibitions of all scales and if this means that more people get in to the hobby it can only be a good thing.
Nice! I definitely don't think TT:120 is intended to pull people away from their already well established layouts in any scale - but like you said, there's certainly a perspective of being able to appreciate it at shows and online. And it seems that TT:120 has indeed brought a lot of people into the hobby so on that front it is succeeding. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy when is the TT120 layout being exhibited. I live fairly local so it would be good to come to the spa valley railway exhibition when it comes around.
@@hayridgemodelrail4046 The 21st & 22nd of September! There's around 30 layouts planned to be across three different stations and it's usually a fantastic event. Every year has been better than the last so definitely one to get to at some point if you can 👍
Thinking about this a bit more, why introduce TT with big loco and long passenger cars? My first loco half a century ago was a HO 0-6-0 switcher and a few wagons. A low cost TT120 entry point set? Instead they first bring out the A4 set, one of the fastest locos on rails which would look ridiculous at scale speed on compact radius curves. Those 0-6-0 engines seem to be over priced.
Makes perfect sense to me. For the vast majority of casual enthusiasts the advantage of TT:120 is to be able to run large express trains in a small space. They won't care if the curves aren't right but they recognise the A4 and A1/A3. Hornby know these are popular models which sell well so it's got everything going for it. Given how well they sold last year, I'd say it seems to be working. Thanks for watching 👍
The TT launch was lacking in locos and stock, should have picked the 2 big eras (4 and 6) and got 2 big engines and 2 small engines for each era for launch. A Deltic, Bobo, Class 08 and Class 03 in BR blue would allow for people to spend £1k on setting up and running a layout while having a variety of locos for mixed traffic. Steam could be a Panier, a A1/A3, Saddletank and Coronation, and then enough wagons and coaches for the mix.
As said its not for modellers who already have collections ( i have the bug from my dad, so we have stock spanning 60 years.) but with more locos it gives access to more layouts and more scope for starter modellers. Im building a 'Didcot' inspired locoshed with turntable and ramped coal stage, and on 1.5m x0.61m it would have been a full layout in TT120, rather than a shunting/display layout.
They can't please everyone all at once and they only have so much manufacturing capacity. I'd say starting with the A4s and A3/A1s was a great choice as Hornby already knew the popularity of these models.
So far we've got 4 models available (5 if you count the A3 and A1 separately) with another 4 due to arrive before the end of the year... not to mention all the rolling stock/buildings/accessories. Things are picking up nicely and I don't think we've seen any other manufacturer release that many new tooling locos in the same timeframe. Thanks for watching 😃
Goodness me, so many ‘experts’ but so little knowledge 🤣 It’s another scale and it’s selling extremely well, I love it, its scale accurate which does make models look nicely balanced, @Highfell has come out well and not ‘trainset’. Ultimately it makes me happy and I know it makes a lot of other people very happy too. Being nasty never makes anyone happy Happy Modelling 😁
Yes it's interesting that those with the strongest views often have the least experience with what they're actually discussing... I use the term "discussing" lightly here 😆
To be fair I probably over-compensated with the "train set" argument. Obviously you can build a more realistic style layout if you want (as you've already proved yourself) but I suspect a lot of people coming into the hobby as a result of TT:120 may not have those high standards - to begin with at least. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy don’t be fooled, this is all first time round with the scenics for me, been in and out of hobby few time since 70’s. The thing with TT:120 has been it’s enabled lots of layouts to be actually built and people get stuck into the creative processes. There are some stunning creations already, many first timers too. With OO it was always a space compromise. I wasn’t picking up your trainset comment specifically, that perfect describes the set boxes which are excellent value and a great place to start. A set becomes a layout and then it becomes a model railway and how that develops is limited only by the imagination of the builder. The hobby should be celebrating the huge influx of layouts and model railways that TT:120 has been the catalyst for. The other benefit is a smaller support network for the scale has concentrated quality and encouraged people to be creative rather than just blindly buying stuff. 👍
Why do some people think there isn't much available in TT ? I'm looking at a dozen locos on my layout (ok I admit some variations/names !) plus a good supply of coaches and wagons. Then there are all the pre-built buildings and 11 oxford diecast vehicles and noch figures.....bloody wonderful :)
Not to mention all the smaller suppliers creating 3D printed and laser cut items too. It really is astonishing how much we have available in just 18 months... plus the 50, Duchess, 66 and J50 to arrive this year too. Thanks for watching 😃
Yes I agree It''s no longer just Hornby other manufactures are now producing new products just about every day now.
What scale pitchfork are you using...? My 1/148th one is very tiny....
This made me laugh! I'm using a P4 pitchfork - the spikes are spaced slightly further apart 😂
I feel like it would appeal more to people who are interested in getting into model trains but also don't have anything yet either which is a fairly small market but it does exist. However the Hornby have gone about distributing it only via their stores is only going to further restrict the number of people who would consider purchasing it. Because it really isn't that different to n scale, so people who already have n scale aren't going to switch over, and people who already have 00 stuff are going to be more likely to simply switch to n scale if they are having space constraints because they know there is more available in n scale.
I think you're underestimating the amount of people who are interested in model railways but don't yet have a layout - a large portion of the comments I get on here are for exactly that demographic.
TT:120 is not exclusive to Hornby anymore, they opened it up to retailers a long time ago. But ultimately it doesn't matter anyway if it's already selling better than they expected. And as I stated in the video, Hornby's aim isn't to take people away from other scales anyway. Thanks for watching 👍
After helping finish an N-gauge layout I concluded it does not have sufficient visual impact for me. TT:120 does. This is a subjective reaction but it is still the reason I am building a TT:120 layout. So for me, it is different enough from N to give it a try.
Key issue is bringing new folks in. If not, all it does is add extra high tooling costs in the same sized market, so prices go up or profits down…
And so far it's doing that. Lots of the people who seem to be taking up TT:120 are building their first layouts or returning to the hobby are failed attempts in other scales years ago. Thanks for watching 😃
Hornby need to bring out a cheaper starter set...perhaps a smaller loco based freight set inc track etc but circa £100 - £150
This opens the doors to more customers who want to get into the hobby but don't have £250. Parents may not want to chance £250 on a set their child might not 'get the bug' with.
They do have some TT Starter Sets at £175 which isn't far off that. But I suspect that anyone with a tight budget will look at Hornby's Railroad sets in 00 gauge instead, some of which are under £100.
The reason Hornby is able to do that in 00 gauge is because they have plenty of older tooling models that they can re-run for minimal cost. They don't have that option in TT:120 and the cost of tooling a new budget loco won't be that far off the cost of tooling a more detailed/expensive model. We might see something like this with the J50 in the future but I suspect if we do it'll be closer to £150 than £100. Thanks for watching 😃
An accurate gauge to scale measurement is a massive positive...
Absolutely! Obviously I understand the reasoning why this hasn't been the case for other scales/gauges but for those who find this important part of their layouts, this is a huge step forward. Thanks for watching 😃
It's a decent innovation, but I think Hornby missed a trick by not flinging the doors open to other manufacturers and distributors, as this would have expanded the market quickly, which would have benefitted Hornby by delivering more customers for its products.
A well crafted video. Thank you.
The issue of course is that they can't force other manufacturers to join them and there are laws against co-operation too. But like I said, if they're asking other manufacturers about their interest, it seems like they're not against others joining them in the future. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I think this is changing now, but I hope it's not too late. There was a great deal of interest during the launch of the product. But now, not so much.
tt120 was made for people like me who live in a bungalow and therefore don't have a lot of room for decent size layouts.
I imagine there's a lot of people out there in similar situations and TT:120 could be a very attractive prospect as a result. Thanks for watching 😃
Your video gives the appearance of being even-handed, but I'm not entirely convinced. Many people have criticised Hornby for not allowing retailers to sell the TT:120 range at the outset, but I always thought (sorry for blowing my own trumpet) that they would end up reversing this decision. You also mentioned as a con the fact that the range is still limited; what other gauge was launched with a massive range on day one?
Yes I think Hornby even said around the time of the initial launch that the plan was to open it up to retailers eventually. It was a point the naysayers tend to get hung up on which is why I addressed it.
Similarly, I agree TT:120 has had a huge amount released for it in a short space of time. But there's no denying that, right now, what's available is more restrictive than choosing one of the more popular scales. I'm not saying it won't ever get there but for someone deciding whether to go with TT:120 or not in 2024 it's still a big consideration. Thanks for watching 😃
Not relevant to the content but - I don’t suppose that’s an original nameplate from 35028 “Clan Line” in the background? My son has the Hornby version that I fitted a sound chip to - that model holds a special place in his affections.
Yeah definitely not real, it's made of wood (handmade I think) and I got it secondhand in a charity shop for about £5 years ago. Thanks for watching 😃
@00shakeyhandsshedmodelrailwa2494
id give it 5 years before investing in it, after that time some of the QC issues should be sorted, hopefully other manufacturers are on board and peco have a lot more track and point work to choose from, buildings and so on, also there should be a decent range of locos available from hornby/others, as well as rolling stock.
Giving it 5 years to evolve will show everyone especially the naysayers, hornby was right all along, and if its no where to be seen after 5 years, then i guess people who waited dodged a bullet
That's working on the assumption that people will be happy to wait 5 years to start building a model railway though - that might work for more discerning modellers but less casual enthusiasts won't be as concerned.
Personally I think we've already got decent range of locos - if Hornby only produced the ones they'd announced to date I think that would be fine for most people. As for buildings and extras like that, it's amazing to see how many smaller businesses have jumped into producing things for TT:120 already. They may not all be big names but they are out there.
In my opinion Hornby have already shown they're committed to the scale and given how popular the stuff they've released so far has been, I'd be very surprised if it just disappeared overnight. Thanks for watching 😃
Aw don't wait that long...you'll miss all the excitement every time a new model is released :) TT is safe !
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy im in australia, and unless i order peco track from overrseas, none of it is here in the shops, in fact a lot of stuff is not in the shops here.
We cant oreder direct from hornby due to some buisness having excluvie rights for importing hornby, and i guess i could order from a hobby shop from england, but then there is extra costs involved in doing that as well, so as much as i like tt 120 ive been tossing up whether to go back to n scale or go OO as those products I have no issue in getting from here, this is why i said ill wait 5 years to see where its headed and have stock available to buy online but within australia, you guys in england have it at your finger tips, where as there were massive delays with it arriving in australia and when it did, it all went quickly, and with bibs and bobs of it filtering through now it is worth waiting for later on, or if it fails over that period of time i havent ended up with a half built model railway, but in all honesty im leaning towards OO due to availability, but still yet to pull the trigger on it all
I'm not being negative about TT:120 I'm a bit iffy about it I was born in the early 2000s and my Mum and Dad brought me OO gauge lifelike UP steam loco for my birthday or Christmas when I was like 9 or 10 years old so I've grown up with bigger scale stuff not that I hate smaller scale stuff I think it's nifty you you could build a pretty decent layout on like one or two baseboards that's pretty cool and in the bigger scales of HO and OO you can get so much detail on a loco or rolling stock like I've seen n scale stuff with so much detail it's insane but for me I would prefer bigger stuff but if I had the budget I would put in a narrow gauge line on my layout and have station where the HO OO meets the smaller gauge
And that's absolutely fine. Like I said in the video, the intention of TT:120 isn't to try and take people away from existing scales. It's just another option for those who might be interested. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy exactly it's another option for people who don't want a bigger scale or don't have room to have a layout in HO/OO
TT on paper is a scale that makes sense and practically scaled but will be niche at best, like S here in states. As of right now I have to think the marketing of this range has been off from day one. I understanding they're rolling things out slowly and hitting the Eastern region hard, but am at a loss for why it took so long for Goods wagons and a steam-powered freight/shunting locomotive to turn up and be announced. That should have been a day one announcement. Two starter sets together, say the passenger set, and a good set to make up the inner loop of the track plan would have gotten the ball rolling much better in the vein of Tri-Ang launching its own TT range.
I also think the narrative has been controlled by the OO Gauge community, who have boasted, "Look at how small it is with all this detail! Isn't this clever?"
...not really. My dad and I started a N scale layout when I was 5 in the early 00s, so I've looked at this from, "Here's something slightly bigger, what can you do with this, and is the additional detail worth it?" To which I haven't found it yet. When I started my own layout in college I opted to go HO and OO for kits and finer details.
Hornby hoarding this scale to themselves with other manufactures hesitant or refusing to step in read as a red flag for the long term viability of TT.
The goods wagons came out fairly soon after the initial release alongside the Class 08. I think Hornby felt the big express locos were the main draw for this scale and while it's easy to look back and say what they should have done in hindsight, the fact that they've listened to demand and now have the J50 coming out later this year is a great move.
As far as the narrative coming from the 00 community, that's because they have the most to potentially gain from TT. As I'm sure you know, working in N is a lot harder than 00 and takes time - so if you've already mastered that TT doesn't offer a lot. But for those predominantly interested in 00, TT:120 brings the support of a major manufacturer to a smaller scale in such a way that it's easy for beginners to make a start.
As for Hornby hoarding the scale, they can't control whether other manufacturers decide to join them or not. Thanks for watching 😃
Hornby can’t “hoard” anything. It’s a capitalist, free market society! Goodness me!
Enjoying TT120, don't understand the negativity. Seems a lot of is anti Hornby and how dare they upset the status quo of 'their' hobby.
Yes a lot of it does seem to be about Hornby rather than the scale itself. I don't remember there being this much outrage when Heljan and Bachmann moved in to 009. If anything people were overwhelmingly positive. Thanks for watching 😃
TT 120 is a superb scale, the perfect half way house. the only thing that will cause its demise is Hornby itself, as they continually lurch from one crisis to another via mismanagement & intransigence. With 00 Hornby have nowhere much to go,its diesel electric range is all but being rendered redundant by the new entrants, so they need products to sell & so a new scale makes sense given N gauge already has established players.
Must admit if it was Bachmann that where behind TT120 id have more confidence in them to know what models to make & market it. Let alone the design / engineering of the models, as you can see with the HST, the power cars stand taller than the coaches, its not good enough. The models made so far do not give the scale its USP, the ability to showcase it properly, with Hornby its always been well intentioned stuff, not called the Marx Bros of model railways for nothing given the chaotic / bonkers ways of carrying on thats gone on over the years. The high turnover of management etc is always the worry, was TT120 Kholers vanity project of reliving the glory days of his youth? Personally i think its a little bit of that coupled with the hard facts that the new entrants are biting hard on them with ever more sophisticated products & Hornby just dont have the staff / money to keep up & that TT120 allows them to set the agenda in a way they just cant in 00 & as such the reluctance of other manufacturers to get on board & leave Hornby to it, Hornby making a balls of it with the TT120 class 31 that heljan announced, that early doors shambles putting the mockers on luring other companies in.
00 is going down a detail / sophistication / niche path that is driving costs ever higher, TT120 if its keenly priced can extract people away from 00 who couldnt give a toss about all the fiddly parts / stuff on the underside of the chassis you cant see when its on the track, who want simpler half decent gear, something that 00 cannot offer , the dogs breakfast that is the railroad range is about the best 00 is going to get & Hornby have no intention of tooling up for more basic models of say the 800 IET / class 68 , 70 , voyagers & sprinters. So for those that want simpler stuff its TT120 that is the way to go.
For all the flak Hornby get, they are one of the manufacturers who have a go at doing something different - Era 1, Steampunk, HM7000, TT:120, Playtrains, Steam Generators - not all of it works but at least they're trying.
I'd disagree that the TT:120 models we have so far don't showcase the scale - big pacific's with long trains or HST sets can be quite substantial without taking up a huge amount of space and I think this is what a lot of people who are checking out TT want without needing a huge layout. With the Class 31, Heljan pulled out of their own accord. Hornby's plan does seem to be to work on models that it already has in it's 00 gauge range but honestly if Heljan had given it a go they could have easily had their own models out before Hornby. It's a real shame they pulled out and it was rather unnecessary in my opinion.
Regarding the Railroad range - Hornby generally don't tool up new things as budget models, rather they use their backlog of older toolings instead. They tried it with the Design Clever project a decade back but it was received so badly that they abandoned it in favour of producing more premium models because that's what the market wants. Thanks for watching 👍
I am in the US, but follow British model railroad modeling because automation is more prevalent in the UK than in the US. I model in N gage at scale 1:160. I wouldn't change, so I dont have an opinion on TT120 and think it's fine to introduce new scales, demand will determine the fate of the scale. I believe there is frustration with Hornby since their OO products really lag in production. Perhaps seeing Hornby produce TT120 models, and being frustrated with the tardiness of the OO models leads to a negative view of TT120 as the perception may be TT120 is taking away production of OO models. If I was waiting for a Hornby OO model, that has been annoyingly delayed, TT120 announcements would be a major source of irritation.
Generally the reason Hornby's models tend to take a while to come out is because they announce them so early in production to avoid cries of duplication. With TT:120 they don't really have that issue so they're at a point where they can announce new locos close to arrival. The recently announced J50 is due to be out by the end of the year supposedly.
Hornby have also stated multiple times that the TT:120 models don't take away from 00 gauge production slots as they're made by different factories. Thanks for watching 😃