Essential Dignities and Debilities in Traditional Astrology
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2018
- The video recording of episode 156 of The Astrology Podcast, where Charles Obert joins the show to talk about the concept of essential dignities and debilities, and how they are used to determine the condition of a planet in an astrological chart.
You can read the full description or download the high quality audio version on the podcast website here:
theastrologypodcast.com/2018/0...
Find Charlie's book Using Dignities in Astrology here:
amzn.to/2KemXey
For more info about Charlie's work see:
studentofastrology.com
His podcast probably saved my life. I was going through the hardest time of my life and wanted it to be over and going to sleep one night TH-cam happened to play his natal chart video and my soul said listen. I had never heard of a natal chart. I wrote the website down and since January have been on the wildest journey of my soul and life. I can't thank the universe and Chris enough for this. ❤ I'm now wanting to study astrology professionally and hopefully help save a life like it saved mine.
My friend told me this to remember the exaltations.
Mars is exalted in Capricorn because a warrior needs a leader.
Venus in Pisces because it is the highest level of creativity.
Mercury in Virgo, Communication l/language is made up of parts and Virgo organizes parts.
Moon in Taurus because she loves lovely things.
Sun in Aries, a ruler needs its army.
Jupiter in Cancer because no matter how far you go away you need a home base.
Saturn in Libra, business is built with partnerships.
Not sure where she got this from, but it may help to remember.
Great
Thanks! I love this. Very helpful!
I really like it!!!
Thanks a lot
your friend is a genious
Chris you have an amazing library of free teachings. I am so grateful.
Buy his 📖 book and more useful things you shall learn.
18:44 is where he lists the dignities, and where the discussion proper starts, IMO. Nice discussion.
Thank you haha
Thank you.
Oh God what I done there now
Thank you!!!
Jesus they just go on and on
In relation to the discussion about the relationship between the exalted planet and the lord of the sign where the planet is exalted with respect to Mars and Saturn in particular...some astrologers talk about how Saturn is basically Mars when it becomes "older", that is, Saturn (time and karma) represents the consequence of an action (Mars). This is especially significant in regard to a karmic approach (hence Saturn-karma/law is exalted in the sign of Libra, the sign of justice and balancing action-the karmic process, also Libra being the sign standing opposite to Aries which is the action itself). Mars being exalted in Capricorn talks about the fact that actions (Mars, Aries) have material consequences and that those consequences will be fully realized in the material world if they are carried through the principles of the sign of Capricorn, meaning through continuous actions and efforts that provide for the best and the most longstanding material results. This does tie in with the theory that Saturn is simply Mars when it gets "old".
I'd never thought of it that way, but it explains everything beautifully. Sigh, astrology is beautiful when done right. I wish that the citizens of this world would appreciate this amazing language and treat it with the respect it deserves.
Wonderful!
Chris interviewing older version of himself 👍🎉 nicely presented 🙏
Hahahahahaha 😱
As someone who has 4 planets in adversity and 1 in depression, this episode was very helpful/insightful to me. Thank you!
Wow...Just curious what are the planets in depression.. and how has it affected you or what's the energy you feel?
@@feelinfroggy1733 I have Sun in Aquarius, Moon in Capricorn, Mercury in Pisces, Venus in Aries, Mars in Cancer. 😂😂 I feel like I don't fit in with most people ("normies"), like nothing is ever easy/handed to me and I always always have some kind of internal turmoil happening. But my life is never dull, and I use these energies in creative ways (I am an artist/performer).
1:06:00 2nd essential dignity: exhaltation, a person is honored, but doesn't do a lot of work
Planet in fall is not respected, not listened to, being thrown in prison
1:41:00 4th essential dignity, 2nd of the minor dignities: terms/bounds (went accidentally out of order)
1:48:38 3rd essential dignity, 1st of the minor dignities: triplicity (tribe support, group support)
51:50 horary vs natal interpretation is on point. I first learned about essential dignities/debilities through learning horary and it is definitely used in that context to describe whether a person is behaving well or not.
Cleared up so many questions. Adding the cultural background to the dignities really helps in understanding how they work and can be used. Thank you Chris and Charlie :)
Great discussion! This is one of the most interesting discussions I've heard. I have a must better understanding of what the essential dignities are and how to use them. I would love to hear a discussion on the accidental dignities.....
Loved the imagery of host, stranger, guest of honor, and prisoner. The idea of the dignities being a political condition was also very interesting- got me thinking about the use of the term “Dignity” in a social justice context- and also how the essential dignities relate to the concepts of access, privilege, accountability, and oppression.
Chewy material!
Awwwww-yeahh!
👏👏👏👏👏
This channel is a real treasure
Chris, one debility that wasn't really discussed was Peregrination where a planet has no essential dignities or debilities. Peregrine planets are without any status in the sign where they are in the chart. As far as I can tell these planets are perennial outsiders or strangers. I'd like you to discuss the potential pros and cons for planets who are peregrine. Note that I suspect that planets in Detriment or in Fall do have a specific relationship to the Domicile lord of the sign the reside in but its an parasitical one. Just like the film Parasite, the planet interacts with the Domicile Lord but in the role of outgroup, othering, and exploitation. They have a place in the hierarchy, but it is always challenging to the planet in detriment and fall. Peregrine planets are victims of trafficking, who have no rights, responsibilities, and no status at all in the sign they are in.
So interesting about Mohamed Ali and Lenny Bruce - a great new way of looking at debility. Madonna also has Mars in Taurus and she is criticised greatly for her muscles and non-conformist female body... Even though she has made it into a strength, it marks her out even more as an outsider.
I love your podcasts. I do agree with using the traditional dignities as the hardcore of the astrological practice. The modern planets,to me are co-rulers, and not the other way around. The 7 planets are the essence of astrological interpretations. The trans saturnian planets come in second place in the sense of complementing what the traditional rulers dictate, specially Saturn, which is the judge and catalyst of whatever is beyond its orbit. In regards of the asteroids and dwarf planets, I use them to complement as well. Even a mid point between two septenario planets has more power when activated by other planet, yhan an asteroid by itself. I've seen many astrologers using countless amounts of asteroids, planetoids, hypothetical & centaurs, to give "sense" to their interpretations, while they dismiss midpoints & planetary pictures. Also, regarding directions and progressions, there's the Atacirs techniches which advances the chart at a certain speed depending on the harmonic you want to evaluate. To me that can become a total mess if people don't know really well to associate planets/angles/nodes with the proper atacir, depending on their mutual nature.
This was awesome, thank you Chris. Charles Obert is great! I have a couple of his books and they are really good. (I have your book too...really great too!)
2.09 that chart is beautyfull... Id love you to shear all you diferent charts and so. You have so many diferent variants on this video witch are very helpfull for deeper understanding. I've took pictures of many of them but having them in pdf format could be so usefull!
One of the most helpful and insightful videos. These are essential techniques for unlocking some, otherwise, perplexing chart placements. I recommend Charles Obert's book.
*TRULY DIVINE AND ENLIGHTENING DISCUSSION* 💞
Thank you. This is very helpful and accurate. Thank you for making this for us.
I am the 1k like! Also I have 3 planets in detriment but its nice to know that it can be a force for change. Love this channel
I love re-listening to this to refresh my astrological perspectives!
This guy is a great communicator. Just ordered his book, although I know these I like his style!
1:14:00 the exaltation of the planets is determined starting with the Sun crossing the Ecliptic from South to Northern Signs (starts with Aries), then The Sun the rest of the planets are adjusted to certain degrees due to the Divine Ratio. The determination of exaltation & fall depends primarily on mathematical design , not descriptive.
Thank you both for a very thorough discussion of the essential dignities. Charles' books do a nice job in addressing some of the difference of opinion of modern astrologers with the material of traditional astrology. Thank your, Charles for addressing in your book, the concept of the twelve letter alphabet, which is causing students so much discord when they begin to learn traditional astrology. Chris, nice job in carrying the discussion through teaching the basics and giving great examples of how the dignities give us depth in interpretation.
Very interesting, especially about rulership - traditionally versus modern. Great talk as usual!
Agreed🙌🏾
👋🏽 Astro buddy! 😎😋😙
🌺🌸🌷
I will listen to this many times over.
Astrologers like stories: it was said these transits (ex. Venus and Pluto conj plus Mercury in retrograde in cap with mars in gemini retro) that certain placements would review a topic suddenly related to said placements. Me? “I can’t see that..” This specific topic, out of nowhere, went under intense review. It wasn’t a topic I planned to get into, it was consequently tied to a completely different topic which suddenly (by my mind not letting it go) clicked. It a slightly different way. It goes back to a reference to Schmidt who apparently said something like “signs don’t exist” to paraphrase. Response “that’s weird, it also doesn’t have context so, whatever.” The turning point is getting that, if you completely forget zodiac signs, these systems open up where the sign is a formula. The thema mundi has a similar affect, but the analogy I’m leaning towards is talking the cover off the sign reveals the genetic make up of the sign where the sign (like genes) are not completely active. It also brings up something mentioned by Valens with houses, signs are not mixtures of other signs. As it’s been said, you don’t have to know how a microwave works to use it. There’s likely a mechanical system under the zodiac hood that helps. If I say I’m a Virgo ascendant, anyone can understand it while it isn’t going to say what TYPE and it is. The episode series on the signs is amazing, obviously people will relate more to some traits and others may not exist to the listener, yet, they’ve probably seen it in others. Just to explain why I find this so interesting, I can explain libra placements (virgo isn’t a good example).. Saturn as the exaltation can give the signs Saturn qualities, Venus is in domicile in libra. Right off, it’s an awkward relationship. Triplicity rulers, venus has a better relationship with Mercury and Jupiter, Saturn as day is unusual being in conjunction with Mercury and combust by sun out of sign. Bounds is Mercury, Decan moon, moon is trine in Aquarius. If asked, I’d say Saturn in 1st combust is difficult, but has improved drastically in time where I find it extremely valuable in this time in history. These systems can give a LOT of detain on what type of Saturn it is. Triplicity is interesting, when looking at my natal sun, a detail that stood out is I’m historically a night person. Sun Leo (12th, Jupiter cancer (11th). If trip is possibly how things function day/night, I’d obviously choose night since it’s so much more favorable. It would describe what I (and others) observe which is I’m different by day and night.
Saturn: I’m ending up where Saturn has both M and F qualities, but if an astrologer studies charts with clients, you’d most likely end up with Saturn expressing more masculine. Libra is a great sign to use, the combination of Venus and Saturn is fascinating and observable. Etiquette is a mixture, there’s a Venus quality of comforting guests, but also a rigid Saturn restriction and rigidness that’s more masculine. Proper eating with company is hospitality, but also dogmatic where not following restrictions perfectly can offend another. A napkin not properly folded can turn to perceived disrespect and lacking class. Yet, the contrary nature of libra can be a more receptive feminine principle where it’s responsive against dogma. Yet, it may not always be visible due to this being more difficult at times in certain circumstances. In libra, it’s like it can know if being contrarian is helpful; in a Saturnian context is won’t be bc it may recognize a Saturn expression that’s holding tight to a dogmatic view/formula; they may take an alternate route. Prominent Saturn types can often hold tight to rigged formulas, at least, for a while depending on what’s going on. A dual context, I could meet an astrologer and bring up having an exalted 11th Jupiter where they may assume what was said negatively about exaltations as true, analysis says it’s a very humble placement. But, things may not have manifested yet where those could surface. I ran into this in reality with mars in libra, where, if it’s analyzed there’s an interesting dynamic where Venus can sort of “sub in” for mars. They’re in conjunction in the same ruler schemes, I like to pretend they’re in the pottery scene from Ghost related to a Schmidt description of these house schemes. So far, that’s more fortunate than Jupiter which seems to just keep me alive. 8th (mars) profection kicked off with a car accident that was minor, but if moved 1 inch, could have easily caused death. A big potential value in these schemes are: if my mars tries to act like an Aries, it’ll get an external mars in libra reaction. If I acts like a Venus in libra, it’s more favorable. It learns that. If you’d want to improve an experience in a house, the exaltation ruler may make a huge difference along with domicile and other lords. Plus, the potential of sign mixing as a mechanic of rulers/lords is extremely fascinating along with actual defining a sign placement. Taurus is an empty house (other than chiron and a lot), moon in Aquarius and Venus in libra do define the house mechanics extremely well in a way that’s more understandable than just “taurus”.
Kentron = spoke (n.)
like the sharp pointy object from the radius of a wheel which holds the weight and adds stability to the wheel to prevent it from being crushed
There were a few glitches in the Matrix in there somewhere. Dejavu things... weird.
That was comprehensive!
I'm gonna have to listen to many of these podcasts a 2nd and 3rd time! And take better notes!
I was actually working on assigning "points" to all the planets in my Birth Chart as I was listening so was surprised to hear you bring it up just as I was finishing. Then when you mentioned that there were the "Accidental Dignities" to consider as well, I nearly passed out! 😨😃😆🤣
SO MUCH!!!
Love your channel and feel such a deep gratitude and appreciation!
I really felt affirmed by today's guest and hope to find more! I need charts!
More charts!
😆🤣😂
This was great, thank you! ❤️❤️❤️
This was great! Thank you 🙏
Amazing amount of information presented in a most entertaining way thank you. I was shocked at 1:15:00 about it all simplified and therefore how it all works. This material logically could have been presented at 0: 1: 15. Regardless of by whom or when categorization of exultation took shape, how it is described at 1:15:00 explains its spine.
Thanks for sharing
This talk is a treasure
In Qabalah, each decan is assigned an angel ruling the day and an angel ruling the night - 72 angels in total. So different angels rule different dates throughout the year. And in the Golden Dawn system, each decan is assigned one of the Tarot pip cards, two's through ten's (four suits x nine pips = 36). Therefore it is interesting that he mentions that decans might originally have had a more religious or divine significance, which then was lost. If that is true, then modern Qabalists basically re-invented the wheel with regards to the decans.
Wow so enlightening about the bounds
I love this episode! I was just thinking about the kentron, part of the discussion. I had never really thought about the "excited into action" element of the translation, and it caused me to think of an armature shaft on an electric motor. It seemed to me that this might satisfy the "exciting into action" as well as serving as an axis point for something to rotate around, thus possibly bringing the angles into a state of action in the now? I can't say for certain, but it struck me that this might be along the lines of what was initially meant? Observations would be welcomed of course.
I flip flop between different schools of astrology but im finding traditional to be the most consistent and clear. In whole sign i have Mercury in Pisces 4th house opposite the moon and Jupiter in Virgo 10th. Always felt like the weird oddball in how I percieve the world.
Thanks Chris
very informative and affirming
Thank you for the planetary ruler chart in this session, I wondered if there is also a link to the larger bounds chart you pulled up? Thank you
Venus in Aries is like an aging diva in soldiers dorm or prison , demanding luxury and attention but receiving only farts and low brow jokes.
:(( unfortunately true.
That was so funny! And so true.
Vivian Leigh in streetcar named desire vibes
G. Maxwell is a good example
As a Venus in Aries male this feel so true, always wanting to live beyond my means lol
There should be a quality sound check before uploading to even out the volume of the two speakers. No one listened before uploading. Or if it originated online no one adjusted the final volume.
Chris could you do a video on how to display Egyptian bounds in Solar Fire, or maybe provide a link to the custom wheel you show in the video?
I'd watch Sylvester Stallone as Mary Poppins. What's the problem with that? :D
Brilliant chat. SO educational. Thank you
I have 4 planets in dignities including the Sun, and yeah, I do think highly of myself. Too highly, really
Is the Greek term kendron the root of the term Kendra in Indian astrology? Or is it the reverse?
Yes, the Indian term is a transliteration of the Greek word, probably due to a translation of a Greek text on Hellenistic astrology into Sanskrit sometime in the first few centuries CE. We discussed this in a recent episode here: th-cam.com/video/D4A0rpK0Dpg/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for this information. I have a question: How does the Sun in fall (in Libra) or the Sun in detriment (in Aquarius) affect the ego? Is this already included in the usual description of Sun in Libra or Sun in Aquarius or should you take this into account when interpreting? Thank you!
OMG I'm just seeing this and I was telling my mother the other day that I felt like Saturn was a masculine/feminine planet instead of masculine/masculine.
Ok, so in the exaltation scheme you see the left pillar and the right pillar of the tree of life! Jupiter (chesed) is opposed to Mars (gevurah), the place of love, of the demiurge (the creator) is opposed to the place of strength and violence (destruction), and then on the lower part you have Venus (Netzach) and Mercury (Hod), I guess a simple analogy could be that most of times art is perceived as a more passional format of expression, deprived of reason and analysis (unless it's conceptual - contemporary art where ideas are more important than technique), and then you have the cold logical analytical capabilities of Hod that is not interested in the aesthetic but in the more mental nature after the foundation of Yesod. Also the whole Chaldean idea of Saturn being the Black Sun is also beautifully illustrated here, the sun warming up with its closeness after the winter in the spring equinox and vice versa for Libra where Saturn is in Exaltation, the period in which nights start to become longer, and darkness wins over light.
Another episode I somehow skipped over. I was actually really curious about the boundaries and fully getting triplicity. I can testify to much of this…
I have the natal Venus, mars, and Pluto conjunction in libra and I can say as fact that mars functions under the rule of Venus. Mars is more like a feral pet that Venus chooses to let loose. If mars is expressing itself there’s something going on with Venus. With Pluto there is extremely tense. I don’t use modern rulerships of outer planets because I have yet to see any valid reason to even do so. Even more so now because I more or less get the point of dignity. Plus.. if modern looks at outer as generational more than personal the outer would be working through its rulers rules.
I can give another example.. my test with horary where I suppose I can put in details while not saying what the question was because there may be an ironic mars in libra influence there… it’s in the 5 year plan question territory, so areas that may set off “-“alarm” are not quite so. My natal ascendant ruler is Mercury in Leo retrograde where the horary ascendant ruler was Mercury in pisces with Jupiter application 10th. It’s an extremely accurate lateral move to have that as natal with a Mercury in fall. I mentioned moon in another comment, it’s actually a weird lateral natal move accurately describing now while also stating a transition where it’s just beginning to apply. Symbolic frustration of 5th house matters in relationship to 9th where I’m not finding whatever it is I’m looking for and it’s a context of “yet”. Other details I’m not sure if I’d read much into, like 10th and 7th tied. Ruler of moon is in the 9th where soon I’ll be going into a 9th profection that’s ruled by Venus natal. A theme of my 8th beyond “occult” among other things is apparently 2 financial setbacks having my car in the body shop. Saturn in domicile with early application to Venus (conjunct) that’s conjunct the whole sign MC (Venus) is actually describing what I’m in the early stages of beginning. Regardless, in context, seeing how accurate horary described “me” with ascendant and moon was something I needed to see because I hit bumps in the road especially with astrology where I’m sort of like “so what?” I may have just developed that attitude because of psychological astrology.
Next, Aquarius makes a lot of sense as Saturn ruled plus traditional interpretation. I can relate to modern interpretation, but there’s a catch. I have moon in Aquarius with Uranus opposite chiron both squaring uranus (T square) with moon trine those libra placements plus sextile Neptune. I wondered if Aquarius changed due to the signs outer planet interaction, but that looks too short. A lot of music I like is oddly of the strong Aquarius generation which does have uranus qualities due up the Pluto conjunction, but they’re extremely “traditional”. Dehumanization by equaling people to machines, dependence on technology, and destroying the planet etc.. it’s VERY Saturnian. Even in myth.. some Aquarius myths seemed linked to Noah’s Ark, and a contrary to pisces of water of value opposed to wine. I can add the horary has a domicile Saturn applying to moons ruler. 😃
I can add.. I see often that a planet in detriment is “weak” while I can say others are taken by shock when they find that mars placement in libra is off the charts strong if it’s let loose. The reason why I won’t say what the horary question was is because I learned young (probably a mars influence) that others can weaponize it against you as an expression of their own mars. Factor in Pluto it creates a secretiveness. And.. it becomes a learned skill from experience of it being weaponized.
Let’s say.. I decided modern rulers mess up astrology. I may decide to go along with it and refer to scorpio as the cosby of the zodiac. Or woody Allen. Not being serious, but make fun of it. It’s likely people decided to say Pluto rules it because there’s so many memes that scorpio is the so evil and hated. The opposite side may be .. scorpio definitely reminds me of the Athena myth which had issues in rome with misogyny. Could relate to scorpio being moved to empirical sexism. Aquarius may have started getting its meaning when apocalyptic predictions started rising with new age ideas much earlier which took off later. The shadow of new age is the strong desire for global destruction and the second coming of Christ to wipe out the infidels.
Notice some of that detriment mars? 😆
Muhammad Ali has accidental dignity for his Mars with Mars conjunct MC... so that obviously helped to offset the debility of the Taurus placement.
Is there public access to the Bounds diagram? Somewhere I could download a copy, maybe?
Google it.
Can I use Side Real Whole Sign to establish planetary strength and traditional house rulers and then go back to Tropical Equal Sign to get secondary angles and then do the rest of the natal analysis. I've heard of some astrologers use it because they find it fixes some inaccuracy in Tropical.
@@mayimism oh yes. I've discovered that now. There's no such thing as accurate and inaccurate systems. Tropical has Aries 0° at the spring equinox and the symbolism matches the seasons. Sidereal has Chitra in Lahiri ayanamsha as their fixed star marker, and the symbolism matches the astronomical constellations. They both work but must be used consistently with their own rules. Then they both lead to the same conclusion.
I have both, Venus in Aries and Mars in Libra.
Very interesting
Two people having a focused conversation on dignities.
Thank you
Notes from a Novice
Flagstaff az
21: 00 table and talk about dignities from home like to fall in different signs?
19:00 5 kinds of dignities
18:00 5 dignity and signs of debility (Dentriment)
So my Ascendant is at 11 degrees Leo. The bound lord is Venus or Saturn?
I feel like Venus should have dignity in Cancer, yet she's peregrine. Moist, cool or mild, feminine, sextile to Taurus...
Can someone explain me why the Sun is ruler of Leo and why has its exaltation in Aries?
I would vote for Saturn being both Male AND Female, in opposition to the Sun male, in opposition to the Moon female, so in Capricorn female, as ruler of Aquarius male
In the hard aspect Aries - Capricorn, Saturn loses energy to mars.
1:54:10
Is Jupiter in Capricorn and Mars in Cancer are they in mutual reception
No. Jupiter in Capricorn and Saturn in Sagittarius would be in mutual reception. That is one planet in a sign and that sign's ruler (Saturn) in that first planet's sign. Easy for me to say heheheheheh.
I’m so confused what did I miss? I’m listening and just heard him say the fire triplicity is Sun, Jupiter and Saturn. This does not make sense to me. Mars rules Aries. So shouldn’t the triplicity be Sun, Jupiter, Mars???
Someone please explain!! ??????????
Mars is excluded from consideration due to being a nocturnal planet.
What program are you using?
Chris used Solar Fire
I have Rambo playing Mary Poppins in my chart.
😂
I have Venus in Scorpio. Give me a kiss.
Domicile/rulership
1:30:30 just leaving notes for myself.
Like 👍
is this tropical or sidereal?
Adulf Hitler was a Mars in Taurus in 8th House. Quite the military Leader....🫣
2:05:00 I can’t find the rest of those Egyptian bounds breaking up the degrees in each sign !!! Sigh
These negative dignities, fall and detriment, sound a lot better than the positive ones. After all, you get success that you earn through hard work against adversity and the status quo. Who would want any positions in dignity? Mars didn't come easy for Muhammad Ali but he took it to the max anyway and challenged the status quo like a true brave warrior in the process. It sounds like Maya Angelou's Mercury in fall made her work and brought her writing success that she earned. I feel sorry for people with Venus in exaltation. Maya Angelou gets raped at age 8 during an activation by planetary years of her exalted Venus. She also had to work as a sex worker and a pimp at points in her life. Creeps like Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein have Venus in Pisces. Dahmer and Hitler have Venus in Taurus, ruing the "turf" of their character at that (1st house). Thank you. You all made a great case for why it is much better to have planets in negative dignity in your natal chart (success that you earn through challenge) rather than in positive dignity (some bullshit undeserved successes and a lot of tragedy).
Of course, I'm being sarcastic, but what do you expect? At least give Dane Rudhyar some credit for recasting negative dignity in pretty much the same way he once recast hard aspects. I did like the exploration of triplicity, bound, and decan. I also liked some of the exploration of domicile and exaltation. However, when it came to interpretation, y'all are just making it up as you go along. It can mean this, AND YET it can also mean the exact opposite, AND YET they both are consistent with my clever Rudhyarian interpretation.
Honey, there are many paths up the mountain, and I think astrologers choose what tools they like and clients choose what astrologers they like and what feels right for them. I have yet to find a system that covers all the bases, because clients differ in their needs. So I use what works best for the client in terms of empowering them, and not harming them. So, do what works for you.
that's cause most astrologers don't use Vargas charts. I know a ton who use Hora where you divide a sign into 2, Decans, Dwads, and Bounds(Trimsamsa in India) but nothing more than that. They need to start using Divisional Charts to calculate true dignity.
I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED SATURN TO BE FEMININE!!!
From Guardians of the Galaxy 2...I'm Mary Poppins y'all! LOL
Actually the Greek stuff came to be influenced by Persian / Zoroastrian astrology with plenty of roots in rig Veda. Pluto and many Greek philosophers only came to their theories AFTER traveling and living in the Persian areas. These are facts. And please correct your racist/ ignorant ( I get it, you clearly aren’t aware) of calling such terms as Arabic. Not a single arab was behind any astrology. Or science. 99% of these people were Persians, or AJAM as Arab rulers called them ( and these rulers or Arabs were the minority) and these Persians, and few levants among them, HAD TO by FORCE record their findings and work in Arabic The entire stuff has everything to do w Persian/ Zoroastrian background which is BASED on COSMOS and GITI ( or GAIA, as Greeks copied GITI to be). It’s unfortunate that racist ignorant western historians have insulted these victims, the Persians, to such a degree, not only in their compilation of history and facts, but also by contributing calling the Arabic. Same with Arabian horse. Or Arabian night. These were ALL 100% Persian phenomenon and from Persian origins and it’s also obvious if anyone knows what Zoroastrianism and Zurvanism is all about.
For some facts, please listen to or read Dr. Jason Jorjani’s interviews / works.
Everyone is doimg content for $$$$$$$ t his is ai bs