Fatal Plane Crash at Westchester County Airport While Pilot Makes Emergency Landing | N19MT Crash
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ม.ค. 2023
- On January 19th, 2023, a Bonanza A36 aircraft, N19MT, crashed in the trees while diverting to White Plains-Westchester County Airport (HPN/KHPN), New York. The aircraft was en-route from New York-John F. Kennedy International Airport, NY (JFK) to Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Airport, OH (CGF/KCGF) when the pilot reported a loss of oil pressure.
*This video utilizes simulations to provide a better viewing experience*
Audio Source: www.LiveATC.Net
Flight Track: flightaware.com/
Local News Report: abc7ny.com/plane-crash-pilot-... - บันเทิง
To the ATC: I’m so sorry they were lost. It felt like a flight instructor was right there with him because of you. I’m very proud to have you in our industry and I hope more model your dedication and empathetic approach.
The ATC was excellent. Tragic accident.
I hope if I every have an emergency, that controller is on duty. He should get some type of an award for his performance.
Probably the most patient NY TRACON controller you could ever hope for when something goes sideways.
Absolutely amazing atc controller. Especially @4:30. When he notices the aircraft on a steep bank and tells the pilot to go wings level, on any headind, to prevent spatial disorentation or an eventual spin or spiral. Very well done. Unfortunately a single engine problem in hard imc is one of the worst case scenarios a pilot can encounter.
2vadermike7772 Good point. When things begin to go south, compare your primary attitude indicator with your standby attitude indicator to ensure the problem isn't mechanical and then level the wings and get the nose on the horizon. Set you power at a normal setting and worry about your altitude and where you are going later. ATC can give you vectors when you get the aircraft under control. They are there to help. They can be butt-heads as can pilots, but when the going gets tough they will get you out of a jam in a courteous manner.
I was on a training solo VFR and got caught in IMC. Recovered from a spiral dive twice, and lived to tell the tale. Only two weeks ago, Jan 2023. Spatial disorientation simply can not be described. The ATSB (Australia) want me to write a story about the incident as in their own words, "Its a good news story and I'm lucky to be here"
Thoughts of course to their families.
@@stuartnewcombe9805
Glad you are here to share your story my friend. Hopefully your experience can save others.
I'm very sorry for the lost souls. May GOD Rest them in Eternal Peace...Amen.
In my initial training, my Instructor always used to remind me of TWO VERY IMPORTANT THINGS IN AVIATION
1: The most useless thing when preparing to take off is the Runway Behind you!!! Make use of all the available RNY LENGTH IN CASE YOU NEED TO ABORT THE TAKE OFF...YOU MAY PROBABLY HAVE A RNY STILL LEFT FOR BRAKING.
2: NEVER BRAVE THE WEATHER, YOU'LL LOSE THE GAME!!!
So this tragedy reminds us all that weather is NOT always a good partner in aviation especially in IMC .
When the pilot said he needed Vectoring because he couldn't see anything ahead of him ...and this was in IMC, I bet it would've been right to turn back to his original airport (180 degree turnround)....
And in most cases, if not all; with a single engine performance in IMC, it would have been right NOT to initiate the trip altogether ie "A NO GO".
Those young souls have departed but they left behind with us some lessons!...Read points 1 and 2 above again.
@@raymondswai1264 I landed at an airport near San Francisco one night in a CJ2 I think it was. Weather was horrible and I got my ass kicked getting in. As I was leaving the airport a kid was all giggles about how his buddy was going to be flying in with a 182 and they were going to fly to Lake Tahoe. There isn't enough money to make me fly even a modern jet into that black hole in a storm especially at night but he just thought it was a great idea. Never read about a crash so I don't know what happened but he was all ready to go.
So sad. ATC did great. The pilot seemed experienced, and level headed. An engine out in IMC is just a really, really bad hand. My prayers are with the families.
Experienced pilot ? where did you get that impression ?
He sounded experienced yes, but an expert, maybe not.
@@linanicolia1363have some respect for the dead my friend
One of the best jobs from an ATC that I've ever heard. He is among the best of the best and he should take peace in knowing he did all he possibly could. So sorry for the loss of those gentlemen. My thoughts and prayers are with their loved ones.
Thank you for this video. The New York TRACON controllers did a great job working through this emergency. One controller was able to stay with the pilot, avoiding the need to change frequencies and controllers. The controller in the sector around HPN can be heard vectoring aircraft around the emergency aircraft. The controller working the N19MT was on top of the situation, and communicated in the most professional and encouraging manner. The pilot had the best chance of making it. The controller pointed out HPN when the pilot first reported a problem, in time to divert with a good chance of making it, and reacted to possible disorientation. RWY 16 is over 1 mile long, with approach lights extending probably 2,400 feet from the approach end. It looks like at 900 feet MSL, the aircraft was 150-175 feet from breaking out. Tragically, they did not make it. Thank you for the ATC perspective. Keep posting your videos.
RIP to the pilot and his passenger. ♡ Both he and ATC made a valient effort to get them home.
Unfortunate. The ATC really did a great job trying to save these men. Very sad.
Agreed, a really great job.
The controller's performance here was excellent. The pilot sounded inexperienced, at least in IMC, and if that was the case you would have to wonder if it was wise for him to be flying in those conditions. You need to plan for contingencies enroute - a forced landing off-airport is going to be very difficult with a low cloud base and relatively poor visibility. A sad outcome.
Disagree. Seconds count - an emergency was declared yet the controller initially instructed to maintain 5000.
@@yomommaahotoo264 maybe if you’re the one in the plane with a problem. How in the world would the controller know more than what the pilot relayed to him? No disrespect, but I think the controller did an exceptional job.
@@lorimeyers3839 When one declares an emergency the controller should immediately ask what the pilot needs.....not repeatedly asking the natire of the problem (oil pressure).
The only thing that may have made a difference was the descent from 5k to 3k. I know ATC is used to getting pilots down and closer to pattern altitude, but I think if I am having engine problems in IFR conditions, I am staying as HIGH as possible until I am established on the Localizer and lined up with runway. If aircraft purposefully descended from 5k to 3k when instructed, he gave up about four miles of glide distance. Also, I know ILS 16 was in use, but I might have done an RNAV on opposite runway, I am closer to that end and can use the GPS for laterial guidance all the way to the ground. ILS gives me the glide slope, but in an emergency such as this, get me lined up with runway or clear area of airport and I can get it on the ground.
I think ATC training could include let the pilot keep altitude as long as possible, or as needed by Pilot. At that point pilot was so saturated he didn't think about saying "unable" and was following what ATC was advising. The Controller did a great job and really really tried to save this plane. In IMC, altitude is your friend, especially with no power to regain it. Keep that potential energy, i.e. altitude, in the bank until sure you can make the runway. I fly a 182 and when I need it to come down, I can get it to come DOWN. Same thing with this plane, it is heavy and can go downhill and lose altitude super quick when runway is made.
Thats a good point . I wonder if the PIC obeyed and went down 3K or just let the plane lose altitude on its own? Logically if you are having problems keeping altitude you wouldn't be keen on losing altitude purposely would you?
Great feedback and info. Thank you
@@scottmoseley5122 from the atc audio and work saturation sound I believe he complied with the descent instruction.
This is exactly what i have been thinking, once lined up for the RNWY it is all about the sink rate. He got too low to soon and the vertical guidance of the ILS is not something that could be maintained.
It would be nice to see ADSB altitude and airspid data overlayed on ATC instructions. Also if he was vectored for the right downwind he would have more altitue to play with on final approch.
I am so impressed by that controller. And I am one who is usually critical of New York controllers due to their machine gun transmissions. This guy is excellent, totally professional, calm, helpful and clear to understand. Shame it didn't work out.
Come on man . Night imc in a single engine? It’s just not worth it at all. The chances of an out are too slim.
Unless you have a whole airframe chute. That’s why I don’t fly at night or over low IMC, and definitely not both.
Meantime between failures of piston engines is about 3000 hours.
Damn that really sucks. That's the problem with flying in heavy IMC conditions in a single engine, plane, you basically have zero margin for anything that might go wrong.
My late father was a USAF colonel and Viet Nam veteran fighter pilot; Rambler 04 on Operation Bolo. He once told me, "if you're going to buy a plane, buy one with two engines." He attributed a lot of these accidents involving civilian pilots and aircraft to inexperience, and that they were flying in weather they had no business flying in.
@@philipnealcombies9542 Very true - my instructor said that if you have two engines you double the chances of an engine failure, and in some cases, if you don't know what you are doing, could be more challenging than just gettin the plane down. (I'm not a multi-engine pilot. . .that's the next rating).
@@philipnealcombies9542 Your dad was one of the Mig killers in Bolo, those guys are legends to me. Olds, Stone, Wetterhahn and your dad. And your father was right, single engine IMC is seriously risky, margin of error is just about non-existent. I came up through the civilian ranks as an instructor, charter pilot and finally a corporate guy. We had to fly in the weather, but we had the equipment and training to make it possible and safe. I have seen far too many accidents caused by people flying in conditions they have no business being in. Tragic, but it keeps happening. Sorry to hear of your father's passing.
@@jimdavis1939 Thank you, sir. My dad got a probable kill on Bolo as well, and he downed a Mig-17 on May 20, 1967 for his second confimed kill. I'm very proud of him and only wished he had lived to see social media explode and be to able to share his story in his words. As much as I loved "Dogfights: Air Ambush", it pained me to see all of my dads comrades telling their tales, and then see my dad get mentioned late in the episode. He has been gone now almost 33 years. I am not a pilot, but if I were, I would take heed of my dad's and your words, and hope to know my limitations. Thanks for your kind words about my father. All the best, Jim!
th-cam.com/video/quFa132Vovg/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/WpzzJP2w0xo/w-d-xo.html
Gentlemen don't fly to weather.
Very sad that these guys didn’t make it. RIP. My condolences to their families. It must be tough for the ATC guy also and my thoughts are with him as well, he did a fantastic job.
This is really sad. Thanks for posting because as someone who flys routinely, its reassuring to see how professionally the ATC, commercial traffic and the lost pilot carried themselves throughout this emergency. Warm regards from Boston.
Great job from ATC, so tragic the loss.
I can't imagine getting a text message from my significant other out of the blue saying "I love you and the kids" and then you find out that they just perished in a plane crash.
He should have been flying that plane. You can glide it, safely to the ground, It is why we avoid flying at night, in single engines. You cannot see where you put it down, if you have to. Whatever you do, you do not text !!! You fly your plane ! People can't text and drive, well, they also cannot text and fly. Not impressed with the dead dude.
@@linanicolia1363 I don’t think it was the pilot who sent the text. I’m not impressed by your lack of understanding.
@@linanicolia1363 You really need to stop wrongly accusing the Pilot of texting!!
It was his Passenger Ben Chafetz who texted his wife goodbye, while the Pilot Baruch Taub remained calm and level headed the entire time as he tried his best to follow the ATC's instructions until the tragic end. You really need to carefully
re-watch and re-listen to the facts.
@@chrisatkins7959 YOU are correct! It definitely was NOT the pilot who texted. The pilot remained calm and level headed as he tried his very best under those dire circumstances till the bitter end to land the plane according to the ATC's instructions. It was his Passenger who texted his wife goodbye in those last tragic seconds as the plane was coming down fast.
@@linanicolia1363 Even though it wasn't the pilot that was texting but you are right in a way because the passenger still could lend another set of eyes on gauges or out the window.
The way that other pilots in the area react is really remarkable. So sad after all the calm heads up work they were unable to find the airport.
Atc did all he could as a private pilot myself this really hits home and I know how situations can pile up fast. RIP brothers
If you lose your engine, you adjust the proper attitude of your plane and you glide it down. You may not land on a runway, but you may also safely crash land......That guy panicked and texted instead of flying his plane. If he went into a turn and a stall, I doubt he had the gumption to text. Not impressed.
@@linanicolia1363 "That guy" who texted his beloved wife as they were going down was NOT the pilot, but rather was the passenger. The PILOT did not panic nor text as he tried to do everything he could to land the plane as best as he could under the bad conditions of the weather and the deteriorating conditions of the descending plane. You can hear how he maintained a calm demeanor throughout as he was following all the emergency instructions of the ATC.
@@linanicolia1363 Furthermore, you're saying "glide it down" but you must not be a pilot cause you'd know that gliding down into a dark abyss is extremely difficult when you can't see what you're gliding into. In this case, they "safely crash landed" into trees.
@@kendrickjgfor real, the dude is saying “just glide down” in night time IMC 💀
That’s like telling someone to jump off a random cliff they can’t see down and hope to god they don’t die
I knew these men. May they rest in peace and God Bless their families.
Man! Hats off to the controller. What a great job he did to keep the pilot informed.
Very sad tragedy indeed.
ATC should get a medal. Sad outcome.
I'll chime in with others and comment that out of dozens of ATC oriented videos around accidents I've seen/heard, this controller was top notch. He was almost like having an instructor in the second seat.
The main take-away for me is when you have an engine anomaly in a single engine aircraft, you shouldn't keep flying the route thinking you'll work it out. Engines are mechanical, not an electronic device, so there's no chance something will just reset and come back nicely. If anything is odd about an engine, you can do some quick sanity checks like carb heat or whatever is on your checklist, but if that isn't fixing the problem in a minute or two, immediately start the diversion to the nearest airport, no matter how remote it is to civilization. Any misbehaving engine should be treated as one that's about to fail, and time isn't a luxury to play with.
Well said. Also, may have chosen to not fly that day given the low IFR conditions. I’m currently training for my PPL and the chapter I just completed was on Risk Management. Sometimes choosing not to fly is the best decision, after considering all potential hazards/risks. Prayers to the pilots and their families 🙏
I’ve spoke to that controller probably in excess of a hundred times.
He is one of the best.
Controller was INCREDIBLE. Nothing more he could have done.
The approach that ATC was vectoring them to is difficult at night... it's like a huge black hole over a lake and woods with absolutely no ground reference. I was based at HPN, so I know the approach well. This wasn't the first plane to go down in those woods, and it probably won't be the last. The extreme stress of trying to land in solid IFR conditions at an unfamiliar airport with a dead engine is what every pilot dreads. ATC did a great job in a terrible situation.
The ATC controller could not have done a better job for 19MT. He should get an award even though his effort was unsuccessful through no fault of his or the pilot under extreme stress with the emergency and very poor weather.
First thing I listened to this morning. A couple of days ago these two guys were alive, they had families and a lot of years ahead of them. And that ATC, doing his best to bring them in, was thinking "just another day at the office." You can see what's coming in this clip but, still, it breaks your heart.
I have been in that situation years ago and luckily I survived. My heart goes out to the families of the crew.
Glad you made it.
Knowing that you're going in and reaching out to your significant other for last second prayers and or to just give an indirect goodbye, is heart wrenching for me. SMH... Condolences' too their families! R.I.P. guys!
Pitiful. He should have been handling the attitude of his plane....You can glide these planes....Basic !!!!!.
@@linanicolia1363 Stop continuously falsely accusing the pilot of texting!! He followed the ATC's advice until the end. Go back and listen to the reports! They are all saying it was the PASSENGER who quickly texted his wife goodbye as the plane went down--NOT THE PILOT!!!!!
RIP. This was respectfully and professionally edited making it an informative video for pilots and all involved with aviation.
Single pilot, single engine night IMC can turn into a hellacious nightmare all too quickly no matter how capable the pilot may be. I stopped that kind of flying many years ago. Departure did a spectacular job on this one…really outstanding. Excellent video, thanks.
Agree 100%, starting IFR training myself. The cards are stacked against these guys from the start, so sad, prayers for them and their families.. RIP
As did I. I piloted my last Cessna in 1989.
I'm a major airline pilot, there was a time I flew night low IMC in singles, but I wouldn't do it again. it's done everyday but its always a risk, you have very few options if your only engine fails and are unable to see to maneuver to a safe landing site. higher ceilings would have been a much different story. the pilot did a great job and appears to have maintained aircraft control in IMC until exiting the clouds but in the few seconds they had left to maneuver there just wasn't anything suitable. RIP
Hearing the MSAW alert in the background really got me for some reason. Approach did a great job.
Man that ATC was really doing a good kob. Thanks to all you boys in box 🙏🏻
I just wanna say how grateful i am for the way you put your videos together. You show the atc and pilot convos and explain everything with visuals that regular people like me can understand and follow easily. So thank you and you have a new subscriber in me.
Wow, what an amazing controller. He did better than most. I hope he's been able to deal with the tragedy. He really gave them a fighting chance. Said as a fellow Bonanza pilot, I'd take him as a controller any day.
Kudos to the ATC controller who stayed with N19MT to the end in a calming tone. My heart goes out to the pilot and his passenger, and to their heartbroken families. I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking, but commercial pilots get paid to fly in these conditions. It's their job, they're trained for it, and they don't really have a choice. It beats me why any other pilot would want to fly in these conditions. Nothing is that important that it cannot wait. I hope the rest of the GA community is paying attention and learning a lesson here, so that the loss of those two fine men is not in vain.
Well said! There’s always another day and time. And to hear the authorities describe how severe the weather was in finding the aircraft, and the FBI having to ping their phones to find the aircraft, tells of the severity of the weather. Not being critical of pilot and passenger, as the pilot seemed experienced and was very levelheaded. But I believe many of the most experienced GA IFR, single engine or multi, and perhaps commercially licensed, would’ve canceled flight and wait for better weather. I’m a commercial, multi-engine, instrument rated pilot, but haven’t flown well over 25 years. These types of conditions, flying IFR and then declaring an emergency and needing VFR, is the most dangerous situation. The human instinct is to take your eyes off that 6 instrument cluster that’s 2 feet away, and start looking for lights and ground references. This usually ends in spatial disorientation. So sad. Prayers for the pilot and passengers families and friends.🙏
Another key lesson: If you have engine performance issues in a *single* engine aircraft in IMC, you have an EMERGENCY!!! DO NOT DELAY to declare an emergency. Every second counts. Assume the engine could quit on you at ANY time without notice. At 2:10 he reported engine performance issues. It's likely he noticed this earlier but didn't mention it until he had to discuss routing to next fix with ATC. At 3:01 he identifies the cause of the lack of performance to an issue with one of the engine cylinders. This is an EMERGENCY but he holds back (maybe because he doesn't want to freak out his passenger?). At 3:54 in the video the controller asked if he was declaring an emergency and he says no. At 4:29 almost 140 seconds later he FINALLY declares an emergency! Sadly this hesitancy to declare an emergency sooner has killed other GA pilots in the past and may happen yet again in the future. May they rest in peace.
@@kmireku I totally agree. Any issue on a piston single is serious and esp in IMC. DO NOT HESITATE to ask for help, declare the emergency and get down safely. So sad. Also know your alternates know your abilities and if in doubt STAY HOME AND WAIT OUT THE WEATHER! Do not succum to GET THERE ITIS!
@@kmireku Any sign of a performance issue I declare an emergency. I have had 2 - no paperwork, landed with priority handling
@@kmireku I agree - i have had engine issues twice and immediately declared an emergency and got on the ground as close to now as possible.
I think his comment about not being able to see anything, leads me to think he was trying to fly visual, when he should have been on instruments the entire time. Then when the engine issue occurred, he was mentally already way too "far behind the plane", and the situation got out of hand and led him into a fear driven lack of of focus and spatial disorientation. Very sad for so many people!
Well he definitely departed with IFR services since ATC was vectoring them. Then the controller set him up for an IFR approach but the pilot said he was unable to abide by those vectors so yes, he started looking for more of a visual (which was impossible in IMC). Its sad but part of it was pilot ability and workload.
Aviate .. navigate .. communicate ... pilot had the flight time AND distance to make the airport !
Thank you for the great analysis! This is so sad.
In hindsight, I would have declared an emergency immediately and take the first opportunity to land. No guarantees, but more cards to play with. It's a shame it ended the way it did.
Excellent videos as usual! Keep up the great work!
In hindsight, maybe the pilot should have considered the weather situation before takeoff
@@victoriapendleton4099 It seems like the pilot had intended to fly above the clouds, since New York to Cleveland is a long flight. But since his engine went bad on him, he wasn't able to get to the altitude he needed. This forced him to stay in the bad weather he'd likely been hoping to just fly over. So your comment makes it sound like he was being careless, or even reckless, but based on everything else, I highly doubt that was the case.
@@victoriapendleton4099 I agree. Any hint of a thunderstorm should ground a small plane. You can’t fly over them.
@@jerryengelbach I've flown over 6000 hrs pic with much more than just "HINTS" of thunderstorms......That's why We have radar and other weather observations..........You may as well just stay at Home the rest of Your Life if meager hints ground You.............But I assume You are not a Pilot....................Paul
@@paulholterhaus7084 I'm a VFR private pilot. I specifically referred to small planes. One of the first things I learned in a Cessna 152 was never to fly in a thunderstorm because of dangerous wind shear. The pilot of this plane should never have taken off.
You can’t get any better help than this controller provided. So tragic they did not make the runway. I hope the controller can deal with this event and not carry any feelings of doubt. He did a great job. R.I.P.
I just found your channel and found your videos to be totally brilliant, almost certainly one of the best on youtube. The ATC guy did a great job, really impressive.
ATC did a grreat job trying to give the aircraft the greatest chance of making it to the airport in what sounded like horrible weather conditions! Sorry for the loss of these 2 prominent pilots!
Pilots caring for others is so sweet. They all know the risks and chances they take.
I feel sorry for the two that lost their lives that night, may they rest in peace. I think ATC did their best and should be commended. I know from experience that when things go wrong in the cockpit they can quickly escalate.
On a bright sunny July day in 1993 I was flying in Maine at 5000 feet on my way to a camping trip in a rented C172 when the prop stopped spinning, When something like that happens you just ask why? You can just imagine what goes thru your head as you try to get the engine restarted, in my case it never restarted and I landed on the highway with no injuries and no damage to the plane but I will never forget the feeling in the pit of my stomach when that engine stopped.
I'll pray for the family of those young men who lost their lives and always thank God for getting me thru the day I landed a pane on a busy highway.
ATC hats off to you. Really a crappy hand was dealt for all involved. Condolences to their families.
Congratulations on the production quality you've attained in this video. You have certainly stepped up your game. Well done!
I like what your doing here, keep up the good work. Even though some of these endings are very sad. Condolences to the families. RIP ❤
Can never understand why you would want to even fly in weather like this I'm originally from Brooklyn New York and very familiar with the area. Just makes no sense. You have great videos. You just get to the point without any nonsense. Thanks!
Agree John, flying at night in a single engine aircraft in any weather is always risky in case of emergency, add to that having marginal VFR or IFR conditions has always been a no go for me.
needed to get somewhere with the speed an airplane can provide I guess... while GA, I do not think this was a recreational/training flight... possibly a contributing factor was the self-overestimation in terms of ability to meet the challenge, but my feeling was there was much more of a problem with the airplane then just engine trouble....
John are you a rated aviator? I ask this because although this ended in tragedy, it is not dangerous to fly in weather like this. Being an instrument rated pilot, which he would have had to of been to even take off in this weather, it all boils down to proficiency and competency. Should he have flown in that weather even if the plane was perfectly sound? My answer would be no. The harsh reality of listening to his situational awareness during the events leading up to him not making it to the runway makes me believe that he was not a very proficient instrument pilot. I am absolutely not saying this to sound critical or harsh about what happened at all, I am simply stating that given his altitude at the time of engine failure he could have landed the plane at Westchester. The first and most important action in any emergency is aircraft control and situational awareness. Unfortunately things like this happen in general aviation, but that does not mean that flying in weather like that is dangerous or shouldn't ever be flown in. I lived in Canandaigua NY for many years and have flown in and out of NYC many times, hopefully his family can find peace.
@@donaldschumann2521 I hear ya…🙏🏻
@@donaldschumann2521 sorry but I strongly disagree with part of your statement.
flying IS dangerous, & flying in this sort of weather IS VERY DANGEROUSE... you use your superior pilot skills and proficiency to mitigate and manage that danger...
You MAKE IT safe, but to say "it is safe" is a dangerous allusion leading to complacency and awful GA safety statistics we have....
as one famous Pilot once said (by memory) " the earth, the air, and the sky, are all a trap trying to lull you & to kill you, at the end of the day, you get out of your cabin, you stretch your tired cold limbs & say to yourself, I have dodged it, I have survived... for today"....
Hell of a job by ATC. That’s the type of controller you want in an emergency. Calm, cool and collected, never once sounding fearful or that he didn’t know what was going on.
I’ve seen a lot of channels that go over accidents. This is the first time watching your channel. Constructive criticism? Don’t change a damn thing. Good job! You got a new subscriber! Peace!
Deepest condolences. What a harrowing narrative. RIP. Kudos to the ATC for doing all he could. Rest easy.
I agree with pretty much everything here, having listened to the full ATC release. ATC was exceptional. I think the slight miscue was that ATC was trying to get a power-off Beech down and the pilot had trouble piling up-there was an audible stall warning going at the end of the thread. So there were a lot of numbers going out to the Beech, which may have been too much. The A36 is heavy and has a poor glide (as opposed to the Piper Arrow, which also does not use Continental engines). An emergency progressive approach might have been a better option. Tom Simmons, Grinnell, Iowa.
Heart wrenching. So sorry for the two souls on board . Including family , friends. I pray for all
So sad that they were so close
excellent vid. really appreciate showing the other planes during their transmission. see this took some time to make
Thanks for good videos covering the facts and not every unrelevant pice of info.
I really like your channel lex. Keep the good work :)
Greatings from Sweden
300 feet ceiling isn't much to work with when you're experiencing problems in IMC. Sometimes you can do everything right and still have it go sideways.
Taking off in a single engine Bonanza in that kind of weather is not doing everything right.
The pilot was in over his head - should have easily made HPN if he called a Mayday early on and aviated/navigated direct to the ILS. Even landing 34 would have probably allowed them to survive. RIP
Wouldn't have been an easy situation for anyone, but yes with hindsight, 34 would have been the better option assuming winds not too crazy
@@justindwyer3430 < 10mph, no gusts
Probably should have declared the emergency the minute he didn't have the power he was expecting. Was surprised he didn't declare an emergency the minute he started losing oil pressure. Your time left once that starts happening is seconds at worst, minutes at best. RIP
This case is a reminder of the risks of single engine, single pilot, imc at night. High risk, low reward. No degree of pilot skill will help you when there are no outs. 300 foot ceilings, night, wooded, no motor? Not survivable without lots of luck.
Looking at adsb for this aircraft there were several flights done with questionable aeronautical decision making. Open water crossings of a 100 miles at night in the winter when a slight deviation would have put the plane over land the whole time, etc.
The error here was taking off in those conditions with that type of aircraft. One unexpected failure, whether it be engine, navigation systems, electrical, etc, you're toast.
That hard left turn over the lake on approach sealed their fate. Sinking air and no power.
Something all pilots hope to never encounter: engine out in IMC.
Remember this: Loss of climb performance is an immediate emergency. If your flaps and gear are up, your engine failing. The record will likely show that a cylinder departed the engine on this aircraft.
What a tragedy. Condolences.
The person who taught me how to fly had decades of teaching and he died in an A36 when the engine went out. His student made it but was severely injured! The weather was perfect and they were coming back from training in S FL. They got gas in Bartow and took off for Lakeland 12 miles away and the engine went out. Instead of ditching the plane immediately they attempted to make the airport and fell short hitting a tree. So sad because bill was a great person and I enjoyed his company!
Such a tragic event. ATC did an amazing job trying to get them safely on the runway and save their lives. As pilot Scott Perdue always emphasizes, fly the airplane. Unfortunately they did not have the power, altitude, and horribly low ceilings. Prayers to their families and friends.🙏
I didn’t know that losing an engine was so dangerous because as a non pilot I hadn’t been thinking about lack of visibility and other factors that complicate things. Great video for someone thinking about becoming a pilot. Thanks!
Lex I love your videos, the ATC perspective is fascinating to a non pilot like me. I have to ask about the little device on the coffee table behind you, what is that called, I would love to have one! Keep doing the awesome videos!
Thanks a lot buddy! Just search "The Swinging Sticks" on Amazon and you'll find it. Take care.
So, so sad. RIP and condolences to those left behind. 😢
the calm voice of reason from ATC is a learned trait. I did FD dispatch and also listened to the FDNY dispatchers during the 911 fiasco... they never missed a beat when the chips were down.
Yes agreed. ATC was great and the pilot remained calm and controlled. Very sad. My condolences to the pilots and their families.
ATC controller you re a hero even tho they didn't make it. You were right on and you turned on and you focused. You knew the urgency and you nailed it but fate would have it that they would crash. Live for them
This really hits home because I received my training at HPN. He was so close. I wonder what type of nav equipment he had onboard. If he had a GPS box onboard couldn’t of this been used for situational awareness? Likewise did he manage to set up for the 16 ILS? It strikes me that he was relying totally on vectors and ATC to keep him clear of obstacles. Not trying to be critical bc the stress upon the pilot would be incredible and 300 feet visibility if very low. He’d have to be almost on top of the airport to see HPN. It will be interesting to see what the experts on TH-cam have to say. I have a feeling that the NTSB are going to say it was pilot error…which in a way isn’t fair bc the pilot was under such stress. RIP 😢
AVIATE, navigate, communicate. The sad part about this is that he taken the right base. He had plenty of time to land. You can understand, becoming overwhelmed in the cockpit, but for all other pilots out there, when, in doubt get that bird on the ground as soon as you possibly can. If you are losing power, do not assume the situation is going to be stable, get the hell out of the air. Rest in peace
Relying on a single engine piston plane for transportation was the first mistake. Don’t get in over your capabilities unless you do this professionally.
Exactly my thought. He was overwhelmed fairly quickly and did not do what the controller said. Slow in making turns. HUGE lesson learned here. If the plane is not performing as you expect, declare an emergency sooner than later. You need every second of flight to get to the runway.
Very well done , excelent job on animatiom and audio .and well explaime. Keep up the good work.👏👏
, my condolances to the famlies.
Tragic. As a pilot (military and civilian), I’ve never understood the hesitancy to declare an emergency. Things are much easier to figure out on the ground. Using the E word basically removes all obstacles to you getting safely on the ground and you get TONS of help along the way. RIP to these two souls! Agree with other commenters, the controller did a phenomenal job! My only criticism would be that both the controller and pilot needed to use the word “emergency” at the end of the call sign every time it’s used. It lets others on freq know that that aircraft is that controller’s #1 priority.
NICELY PRESENTED
GREAT VIDEO THANKS LEX
Dang. So sad. Kudos to the ATC guy, he was giving it his all to help them
After further review of this accident, and looking at the flightaware tracking of the aircraft, we can learn a lot from this. The pilot hesitated in declare an emergency. Don't wait! ATC will treat you a lot differently in that case. Then, he should NOT have accepted vectors to the ILS. With the engine failing, he needed to get the airplane on the ground as soon as possible. That means a direct route to the airport and land. Instead he got vectored way around to the east and a left base for 16, using up valuable engine time. Had he made it to somewhere over the airport, he may have at least had open space to put down. If he'd had enough altitude, he may have even had the opportunity to fly the LOC backwards (back course), do 210 to 240 degree turn back and intercepted the LOC and even the GS. Hind sight is always better, I know. But, in the case of engine failure you don't have many options. You're going down, and you need an open space to do it.
I have said it before, and I will say it again. How can there be so many engine related failures when high priced engines with backups, and constant testing and maintenance requirements are in place. A car with a cheap engine and no backup almost never fails in it's entire long life. It is usually junked out with an engine that still runs. This is a total system which in my opinion is broken. Maybe they shouldn't be constantly rebuilding the engines. The guy that rebuilds it, doesn't have to live with it.
The stresses on an automobile engine are infinitesimal compared to an aviation engine. Even with all the stresses, most aviation engines run fine for the entire life of the engine.. There is usually multiple factors that lead to failure. Things like maintenance not up to par, pilot abusing the engine (IE: incorrect lean settings) are examples. Also, in this case, they were in the worst possible situation to deal with an emergency. Events like this are actually quite rare.
@@markbryan9989 True, many GA piston engines never fail and true, maintenance and engine management play a role. But so does the fact that GA engine tech is from the 1930s. Sure, a pilot can damage an engine with improper leaning, but, it's crazy that Cirrus (for example) sells +$1m planes in this day an age with engines that require leaning. There is a 70 year time warp between the firewall and the tech in the cabin. FADEC is cheap and proven technology and should be in all new planes. (I know, small TAM and n number of GA units versus cars but we can and should do better.)
At any rate, low IMC in a single not for the faint hearted. A very good argument for a parachute/ BRS. God bless these poor guys.
Great performance from the ATC. Pilot took too long to recognize he had a problem. RIP
Respect to the ATC for his efforts and professionalism. Sad that they didn’t make it. If they had stayed on the right downwind they could have made it. Just really hard being in IMC while trying to troubleshoot a problem and keep flying the airplane.
Thanks Lex🙏
I am an ATC and this video left me in tears.
Great ATC. Sad loss.
I dead sticked a cessna into an airport maybe 30 years ago. The controller did a really good job. I've thought about this a lot and here is how I would handle it. Trying to fly an instrument approach with no engine is not going to work because your glide angle is too steep, instrument approaches are usually about 3 degrees. I would fly straight to the airport. The A36 bonanza has a best engine out glide of 1.7 nm (nautical miles per 1000 feet of altitude loss). The cessna 172 has a 1.6nm per 1000 feet for reference. In your head just try to keep the gps from the airport miles one and a half the altitude. If you have extra altitude try to align with a runway. For example at 8000 feet you want to be 12 miles out, at 4000 feet you want to be 6 miles out. Now the gps point is the middle of the field so you are glide path aiming for the middle of the airport. At about 2 miles out put out your gear and flaps because you are a little high and cross control. You will break out a little long and be maybe 2000 feet down the runway. If you are short then stop cross controlling, pick up some or all the flaps and retract the gear as a last resort. I've practiced this many times under the hood. This is a really difficult position to be in. It should also be noted that on some aircraft you can lose your vacuum and your horizon which really makes it tough. The new glass cockpits are electric and you would probably still have instruments. It should be noted that even if you can't get lined up with a runway because of lack of altitude an airport is relatively clear space and you may damage the plane but walk away from it. Every second that you can figure out you have engine problems early is priceless. I am a civilian pilot, usaf fighter instructor pilot and retired 30 year airline captain.... if not by the grace of God go I.
G,day Lex from Sydney Australia.
Thank you for the report into this light GA airplane fatal accident. With the engine compromised and in IMC: very demanding for the pilot. This is when spaceial awareness factors influence judgement. A sad outcome.
🌏🇭🇲
ATC did a fantastic job. Gave that Pilot as much assistance as he could. He should receive a letter of commendation from the Secretary of Transportation.
ATC is the pilots best friend. These people have the highest thinkable level all over the globe !
ATC was so calming and helpful. Sad outcome .
What is a “left base”to runway x? Not heard term before.
ohhhh that is tough one. Seems they did everything right. condolences
What a sad tragedy for these fellows and their families. I hate to focus on what he did wrong and what would have saved him and his friend but I cannot help but make the observation that again, a GA pilot flying single pilot IFR, though he had his friend with him (not sure if he was a pilot or not) in heavy IMC conditions is a huge challenge for any pilot experienced or not. Without knowing his flying experience though he did mention shooting the ILS a couple weeks back I think he got overwhelmed by the engine problem and though he did a great job of keeping the AC level and straight and following ATC vectors he may have divided his focus between diagnosing the problem and flying the AC. . I think when he experienced loss of climb ability this should have prompted him to find his alternate immediately. Esp on a single piston AC. As soon as you suspect a problem in a single esp in IMC get help from ATC and focus on keeping the AC in the air follow the vectors keep your situation awareness high and do not become obsessed with trying to diagnose the engine problem. Like my flight instructor said to me during my IFR check ride (on a Beech Twin in REAL IMC, we broke out at 300 feet on the ILS approach) FLY THE EFFING AIRPLANE! I was rooting for him as I watched this tragic video unfold though knowing full well the horrible outcome. SO SAD GOD BLESS!
Amazing controller and other pilots keeping their comms quick and direct during the situation. Loss of engine power in IMC is my biggest fear, when situations deteriorate in zero visibility the human mind becomes completely saturated very quickly. These guys did all that they could with a level head
ATC did an AMAZING job here.
Nice video production!
Another good one bro , this is a cool channel I’m not a pilot but like aviation so I watch a lot of pilot breakdown videos and stuff like that but this is a completely different point of view lol but it’s really it is and it’s great to learn how atc works 🖖✌️
That is so sad and i am so sorry for all their loved ones
I saw the airport go into a ground stop and instantly thought of Citation Max. So sad to hear the loss.
Saddened by the passing of these two men. ATC did a great job in this situation.
Few ATC's guys are also pilots. Often, they just tell some poor freaked out guy, to keep calm......that's not doing any good. That one went onto texting......and talking instead of flying. You can glide without an engine. Landing in a tree did not have to be fatal.
@@linanicolia1363 THE PILOT DID NOT TEXT!!!! RE-READ AND RE-WATCH!!!!
Nice video sir ! Keep up the good work 🫡