Great Drummers All Do This - Can You?
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As a guitar player who does not play drums, I can say a solid drummer is more comforting than a bowl of chicken soup.
Haha nice analogy! :)
As a bass player I don't think the guitar player gets to have an opinion on the drummer. JK, cool vid
@@22ddo As a somewhat of a drummer, I'd rather play with a bad guitar player than a bad bass player...and I've done both. A good bass player and mediocre drummer can do wonders for a bad lead guitar player. A great drummer and guitar player can be killed by a bad bass player.
@@22ddo As a jazz guitarist (and therefore, a melodist) we do, indeed get to have an opinion on the drummer - even if the drummer is playing a solo show (that would mean the audience had incurred some really bad karma ) . As a melodist and arranger, we know what should be happening. In fact, any musician sharing the stage with any drummer "gets to have an opinion on the drummer".
brandex2011 to be honest anyone can have an opinion on anything, be it musical or not; it just comes down to how the person takes (uses) it.
It’s all about the groove. Ringo, bonzo, Phil Rudd etc... they all have mastered the basics of a backbeat that you can feel and bang your head to
"That's OK, just choose simpler ideas and try to stick to stuff you can control."
That's wisdom. At every level of play.
80/20
Man dun miss a beat
a drummer who can play solos and can't play a solid beat to a song or with a band is useless
a drummer who can't play a solid beat can't play some good solos.
That counts for any component of the rhythm section.
leaviathan by mastodon is basically just fills
No, it applies for everyone. Otherwise your group will never be tight.
A drummer who can play solos but can't play a solid beat to a song is useful for playing solos. Drumming these days can be more than just being a living metronome for a band, if someone did nothing but upload awesome drum solo videos to youtube for the entirety of their drumming career there could pretty obviously still be a lot of value in that.
I eventually realized that when I made the SONG sound and feel great, the audience thought I was a great drummer.
Of course.
There's the secret. I commented above that I've only met two drummers who could actually play the tune so that the melody and arrangement was there even without the pitches. But those drummers are too much in demand to hire.
Bravo! Just what Max Roach, Stewart Copeland and John Bonham, for example, brought to their groups' music. Yes, they were all skilled technicians in their own right, but how they augmented the music - and made it something it otherwise wouldn't have been - was what made them great. THAT's a drummer's main job - in this trumpeter's opinion, at least :) .
Yes!
Haha I love that and its true!
Last year I saw King Crimson in all their glorious three-drummer madness, and it was the best live experience of drumming I've ever had. That said, the best moment hands down was when, amidst all the crazy fills and time signatures, Pat Mastelotto just laid down a simple groove, and it was one of the sweetest grooves I've ever heard in my life...
Loose and precise at the same time? Bernard Purdie. Saw him live last year, almost cried like a girl. He was so great, I almost couldn’t take it. I’m not joking. It was magic.
He means to have equal intervals but slightly off timing.
bernard is a living treasure. ya done did it! ya hired the hitmaker!
Saw him from under 10 feet away. Agree.
HA! I've seen girl drummers make me cry like a girl....uh, I mean guy! LOL
Bernard Purdie came to a gig of mine once. He sat in on my drums. In the middle of the tune he broke out into the Purdie Shuffle and immediately shot me this look like "oh shit I gone done it on your drums!" Honestly it was one of the best days of my life. He was super nice too.
Anyone who wants to talk $h!t about this guy, fast forward to 7:39 and watch, and I challenge you to recreate that flawlessly... This dude knows his stuff and the foundations of greatness are being given to you for free... I wish I would have appreciated it when I was 16 the way I do in my 30's...
Play in unison with yourself! Russ Miller and Dom Famularo just iterated that with my drum camp students. Benny Greb, Mike Johnston, Drumeo crew, and Rob Brown would all likely agree with you as well. I remember reading in MD years ago about an exercise Max Roach would have his students do that involved playing in perfect unison with all four limbs and then varying dynamics in each limb. Also, counting out loud or vocalizing is a huge part of this concept!
Thanks for another excellent message, I refer my students to your stuff when they give me funny looks.
Joe Seltzer Hi Joe!
Joe Seltzer , I can’t get students to count out loud to save my life. Smh
Nice! Great to hear others are talking about this as well. It was conspicuously absent from any instruction when I was in school
The 80/20 Drummer mine too, a lot of heartache before a teacher nonchalantly suggested it and I tried it. Keep up your work, I enjoy your thoughtful postings.
I have spent a lot of hours on all four limbs in unison and alternating dynamics between each limb. Totally agree with this concept! Counting always helps! I also do this other thing, Which i think I picked it up from a Gavin Harrison exercise video. Weak hand lead, playing 1/4s 1/8s and 16ths against a variety of easy bass drum patterns. Focusing on no flamming with that hand against the bass drum. Doing it slowly. When you return to your strong hand, it gets tighter and tighter. That’s my experience anyway. Thank you for the exercises Nate, I’ll add these combos in.
I saw Vinnie Colaiuta live once, and that's the cleanest playing I've ever heard in my life
I remember seeing Matt Garstka live and being completely mind blown at his perfect timing and accuracy. He has wear spots the size of dimes. The guy is an alien.
agreed, Matt is so relaxed ,clean, and tight it appears effortless for his at times. true talent
Understanding exactly where each hit falls on the 16’th note roll and counting it out helped me. Great video.
I'll repeat it here: this is profound wisdom that can probably be applied to any musical instrument. Thanks for this one!
For me, what really started to clean up my playing was recording drums for my own tracks. In the context of other sounds and music, you'll pay the right kind of attention to hear if what you're playing is too much, too sloppy, badly articulated or if the sound isn't good / fitting well with the other sounds.
Yeah, recording exposes every little flaw you have. I cried when I listened back to my first professional recording lol
Timing is the most important thing. If you are not on time everything falls apart.
Chops are the icing on a cake. Not necessary, but tasty nonetheless. The cake batter itself would be your groove/feel/sound/touch/timing. Cant have a cake without the batter.
David Sullivan
Chops is just slang for technique and all that you mentioned are parts of it, and that’s with any instrument or voice for that matter. If you play fast but it doesn’t groove or it’s sloppy then that is not having chops. All great musicians have definition, clarity, much like a great orator enunciates. This only comes with time and practice and yet not for everyone. You must have an inclination toward or an attentive ear for detail.
@shadowbot69 9 You nutz ... my fav. snack ...!?!?!
Except you can't really buy feel. You can buy chops all day long, tho.
@Jennifer Maple HA-ha! Nicesh one, Bogie.
what about ice cream cake?
I've given a lot of thought about my drumming mentally. Being in the moment while playing, being honest with myself about my skill set and not trying to be what im not, being positive about tackling new ideas, not being too hard on myself, etc.
And then Ringo broke everything with that one fill in Strawberry Fields.
I love this guy! The lessons on this channel have helped me tremendously! THANK YOU
For me with 16 years experience in different genres and still at this time learning new genres in different Bands there is 2 things that are the most important for me that make a drummer great: feeling and a sense for the music they play. In detail: feeling for me is getting emotional into the stuff you are playing. Feeling it not only with your body but heart and soul. You will sound way more authentic. Doesn't matter if techniques and timing are not perfect. Thats just practice. Feeling is hard to learn. It is more of a mental skill to stop overthinking. Sense for music: the thing that makes an epic drummer stand out from a good drummer for me. It is the realization of your band, the intended feeling and message of the song and the roles of each instrument in each part of the song. You play to assist the others and to kinda guide them through the song, pushing the right instruments in the focus, forcing emotions etc. You play For the song. Gavin Harrison is a perfect example of a drummer who mastered this
The 21 dislikes are from those who can't play cleanly and refuse to put in the time with the exercises you suggest.
Also some are SCV fans haha
th-cam.com/video/451KzibdI4w/w-d-xo.html this more more clean then anything he can play and takes talant so
@@TheFreakmaster1999 That song is laughably bad.
@@mrskinszszs well out of which point of view u talking here from a drummer who knows how hard to achive this precision at that tempo is its a quite good performence
@@TheFreakmaster1999 The drummer is fine, it's a comment about the music itself.
Phil Rudd is always one I use as a shining example of how important it is to stick to the basics but to get them very clean. His groove in songs like Back in Black is so simple, yet it's on a level of tightness that most drummers struggle to copy.
I been playing for over 40yrs and the number one thing a good drummer needs is timing and discipline.
Wow that first comment... let’s see HIS hands, I’ve learned a lot from you 🤘🏻
Stewart Copeland, at a drum clinic, once just played a basic 4/4 for five minutes straight just to make the point that if you can't groove you're useless as a drummer...
You don't need to drum for 5minutes to prove that. It's common sense. It's like a F1 car without brakes. Going fast is just 1 thing.
@E. Male You’d think it’d be common sense, but you’re underestimating the amount of idiots running around who think they’re Thor on the drums, but they can’t keep time..
@@goldenageofdinosaurs7192 Keeping the time worth nothing if groove is not there, or may I say pocket. And yeah, I had heard those machine-gun heroes, I just got dizzyj.
@@levgtz8158 good time creates groove/pocket.
@@levgtz8158 Groove or pocket = consistency in spacing your notes
In my personal opinion, it is the ability to fill the spaces between time and to be consistently creative during those times and knowing what the next " fill" will be right when you're playing it.
I was a pretty crappy drummer for a long time, and for me it just clicked all of a sudden. I'm not sure why it did it that way.. I always knew what I wanted to sound like, but I could not figure out how to do it.. now I can throw on Zepplin, Rush, Yes, Crimson, etc. etc. and I can play the same way as those guys. It's actually damn fun.. never cared to be in a band or in front of anybody else, but to just be able sit in my basement and mimic drummers I've always appreciated.. it gives me a high every time
Jeezus man. That drumming on your intro was outrageously amazing. Feeling around inside the pocket, without letting you anyone see you're playing with your stuff.
Great video! One of my favorites of yours. Keep up the great work man
It's not what pro level drummers play that sets them apart, it's what they dont play. It's the architecture of silence.
Totally agree. I don't know why this was in my feed, but...as a bass player it's often the same thing. The space between the notes is just as powerful or more powerful than the notes themselves. Any idiot can fill all the space with all the notes.
Well put...
@@KlockoFett Guitar players, too! Same for speaking, when it comes down to it. Doesn't it drive you nuts when someone doesn't breathe? After a while, you'll fall asleep. You have to "breathe" in your playing, even when it's not physically necessary.
I wish the guitar community embraced that.
You have to know how to play and when not to.
I just got to meet and hang out vinnie Coliauta in Toronto after his herbie Hancock gig ... vinnie BLOWS away everything and everyone. Period.
That guy is simply amazing he's at a different level than many and a lot of years harnessing his skill.
My favourite drum lesson of the past 20 years.
Great work on this video... Love your points made and examples!
Great topic to talk about! 😊
The classic Ringo playing clean track is In My Life.
Can't agree more! His playing on that song is like a perfectly structured joke: You can't add or remove one word, it's perfect how it is.
Another interesting topic really well explored, well done Nate. Thank you.
Yeah. Youre ok, you are. Good vid. Sincere. Your style is what TH-cam should be all about
This is what it is all about, best video I've seen next to Steve Jordan's lesson for groove like drummers
This video is absolute brilliance. Its not often you see a video that spawns so many comments that, like the video and depending on the viewer, can potentially expose one to concepts that took some people years to attain. If I were more motivated and still had the physical skills to implement some of this, it would almost be cheating. Thank you Nate!
I'm a bass player , yet I find your videos intensely useful and engaging (of course for bass players it is important to understand what drummers do). Thanks for all your hard work! Greetings from Japan :)
Drummer are our best friends
Thank you for uploading this video 👍👍👍it helped me a lot
I wish I understood half of this and also wish I could tell the differences in the examples he showed.
It must be really satisfying to play drums well. Great video. Subscribed.
I love what you say at 11:05 , to stay within your limits and serve the music, and get better in the practice room to be able to control more later
Fascinating topic, thank you Nate.
No drummer knowledge here, Subscribed and watched several video's. Very good info and pleasant tot watch. I learned a lot! Thnx
I remember seeing a video feom Marky Ramone of the Ramones talk about people taking jabs at him saying he wasn't a "real" drummer because he doesn't solo, he then said a lot of drummers he knows that "solo" can't play the consistent 16th note style hi hat and ride playing he does for hours, at the end of the video he shows that he can actually "solo" 😂. I often come across "chops" videos and I immediately leave the video because it all sounds like nothing just a bunch of noise.
With great drummers the chops always groove too.
Great great great video !!
Your theme song has been stuck in my head for days.. I really like you channel ...thank you so much for your great content...respect brother ...
Always like your vids .. for me a quality drummer is one who has a solid beat who compliments the song not dominate it
Great episode dude, I always learn somthing with each video.
Nice one dude. Really enjoyed the video.
Man this is a most needed video. Thanks.
I LOVE this drum lesson! And I'm 68 - so old that I think I'm dead!
Ya, but you look like Sam Elliot, and that's cool
@@blablablugh Ha! Now THAT'S funny! Thanx, Pal! Maybe - But I sure DON'T have that Incredible Mustache! (Unless he shaved it off)! Have you ever seen the 1972 movie, "Frogs?" www.imdb.com/title/tt0068615/ Back then HE didn't even look like Sam Elliot!
The only people who think Ringo is a crap drummer .... are people who don't play drums ....
Watch the movie Let it Be sometime. Great, right?
I’m confused by this video. Is he saying Ringo is crap or not? All decent drummers know Ringo is a drumming legend who is an expert at his style.
But he's a lousy frontman...never heard anything about him working with anybody else 'cept his own bandmate, George. John Bonham on the other hand was hired along with Ian Paice by Paul MacCartney.
@@nickday6551 who the hell says Ringo is the greatest drummer? Clearly drumming is not about pure skill.
Ringo was a good drummer for The Beatles. He was absolutely influential to the sound. Being a good drummer and a technical drummer are two different things. Throw double kick and some 808's in one of their songs and see how fast it's ruined...
Thanks for the honesty.
As a Drum Corps Alumn. You’ve got an instant fan.
Blue Devils!!!!!
Would add that a contextual sense of dynamics and general confidence on the kit also go a very long way!
Groove is KEY! Yeah it's nice to have speed for tasteful accents but for the average listener groove wins every time.
I play with a bunch of guys at jam nites. Still get asked to play because: good memory for songs. I notice if the feel is off and go fix it.
And C, I'll still be sober at the end of the night. :) I even own and use a metronome. :)
@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 Yep still own and work with a metronome just for good measure (no pun intended) and the staying sober thing is the only way to play music. I would rather play sober with the nervous energy and direct it towards putting on a good show rather than partying with the people that are there for the entertainment.
Some things that greatly helped me play clean and consistently was learning guitar, writing ,and recording. You realize very quickly what drummers do for songs besides being living metronomes.
Great episode. I’ve been a quarter-professional drummer for 4 decades. I never had the resources or funds for decent kits or education. So, over the years, I’ve slowly developed by watching other live drummers.
For me, I think the difference is that, as a groove drummer, I love being the backbone of the band, without being choppy. Give me a chance to obscure myself with more cymbals, I probably will.
I don’t do drum solos. They actually scare me a lot. I wonder if it’s an introvert/extrovert personality thing?
I also love metronomes or better still, a clockwork percussionist, to groove with, but also be there for me to chop over.
So much wisdom here.. great video. I think a lot of points you make here aren't exclusive to drummers. The comparison game and the "how fast can I play" game is real for most musicians.
...also, a drummer bashing Ringo as a crappy drummer immediately proves there's a lot about drumming they themselves don't know.
Good stuff. As a concept, I find playing "clean" applies to any practice. There's a Bill Evans interview here on YT where he talks about this w/ his brother. He basically argues simple and intelligent always beats uncontrolled approaches even as they might seem more exciting to the audience, and even player.
So funny that you mention that video. I was just watching it a month ago during a week-long Bill Evans kick and I thought, "That's profound wisdom right there!" This approach to playing drums has aided me tremendously over the years. You'd also like this Tony Williams video discussing control and clarity on the drum kit. Very similar concepts: th-cam.com/video/RUvKG1t6APw/w-d-xo.html
@@baddingtonn According to Bill Evans' son, Bill wrote a serious quantity of his ideas about music in notebooks. Apparently lots of it is pretty esoteric/philosophical. His son has the whole archive. Would love to read it. Evans had such a rational but humanistic understanding of music. Thanks for the video. Can't get enough of hearing masters talk about their craft.
Nice tutorial. I love the drums, but don't play, and haven't really got a basic understanding of them. This helps. A lot!
Nice sticking my friend. Solid work.
Great video, as usual dude! I am however surprised you didn't mention Jeff Porcaro (RIP). Talk about a guy who did this, IMO, and a guy who didn't chop out or solo but killed it 100%. He said in a clinic at least once "I don't solo, man. Nah. I only play time".
First rule of drumming “LESS IS MORE”
Yngwie Malmsteen
in an interview:(-2010)
---------
‚LESS IS MORE‘ does not
exist.
Theres ONLY
‚MORE IS MORE‘
----
I know of his great neoclassical
guitar playing.....and fabulous
shredding styles.
(Especially Alcatrazz and
his first solo album)
When I heard that nonsense
I had doubts concerning
his intelligence.
Christian Hohbach hahaha i was thinking the same thing!!
Not only that. To quote Vinnie: Thought is the enemy og flow. Truer words were never spoken.
Very true
@@undxtaleproductions6009 Exactly. "Less is more" is ridiculous and I agree that many people allow it to limit them. If "less is more" no one would bother playing any kind of solo or instrument at all. "Right is right" is a phrase I think is far more useful.
This was an awesome, insightful video!
Thanks ;-)~
Great video, should be mandatory for all drummers before joining any band.
Forgot to explain them that rehearsals are not intended for them to try every fill and chop they know....
I think you overlook Eric's insane pocket. Yes he has flashy chops, however he also has insane rock solid groove without chops
Coming from the world of guitar it's the same thing, it's not so much how many notes you play, it's how and when you play them and the control you have over inflection. Good video man.
Love your insights
Can we start a gofundme for nates drum heads?
lol, and maybe some wd40 for that poor HH stand 😂
Practice kit heads dirty
Playing out heads fresh
I think younger drummers would learn a lot by listening to Levon Helm's playing.
Now thats good advice.....😊
I think younger drummers would learn a lot more by listening to Bill Bruford's drumming!
@@RedVynil i was told once by a professional that all the best drummers are in jazz.... So i started listening to jazz. And got very despondent 😁 but it did me a favour
Bruford's about as jazzy as you can get.
Yeah? Cool!! Who was he? There was a band around here that sounds a lot like `80's/`90''s King Crimson, they even use a Chapman Stick and, after their drummer left, they asked me to take his place. I went for one rehearsal and they liked what I was doing but, the bass player's house (where we rehearsed) was about 50 miles away and, as I don't drive, he wasn't interested in coming to get me every time we rehearsed or had a gig.
Yes! Playing together well with ourselves. Exactly!
Keep up the work. Tampa Bay thundern, cavaliers here checking in DCI 2001/2002
I don't trust anyone that doesn't blink.
That said, I had a guy tell me "Nice chops" and took it as a compliment. D'oh!
As Andy Newmark told me "Play the music not the drums". Most of these youtube heroes miss that point completely. I have been fortunate to play in a show was I was making $1250 a show for many years if I had played the drums and not the music I would have been out on my arse very quickly. The promoter who has putting tens of thousands of dollars investing in the show would have sacked me in a minute.
Chops are useful , when you learn when too ,and why you're applying them in the music .dynamics is a must.
Great talk!👍 One of my favorite examples of this is TH-cam clips of Steve Jordan, he lays down the funkiest simple groove & maybe just 1 or 2 riffs and this ends up being absolutely captivating! Perhaps even more than a mega chops demonstration…& don’t get me wrong cause I’m a fan of mega chops!
When I grow Up I wanna become the 80/20 Drummer.
To me, chops can be how dynamic and cool sounding a drummer/groove is as well
Cuzjudd “ chops” means physical ability! I don’t know what this guy is saying!
@@jerseyjoe1677 i think he's equating chops to pure speed
Cuzjudd He keeps referring to chops as a piece of music you play and that’s wrong. You can even google “ what does the word chops mean in music “ and it says Physical ability
So true ! That’s why I believe The New Breed is such an important book !
I always play with myself. Making sure im clean of course
You had me at “blue devils”
The Mitch Mitchell and Jim Keltner photos need to be reversed.Then this video could be included in a voluminous documentary presenting musical facts.
Good one! A great groove has a consistent mesmerizing feel that is held even within fills and interesting variations. There are many ways to play a great groove and the feel can be adjusted with minute timing differences and dynamics on each limb. The masters can create a groove that suits the song and keep it consistent from start to finish. I think what you are describing is generally called “playing in the pocket”. It isn’t as simple as timing accuracy of each limb as a good groove won’t necessarily have perfect timing between limbs - but it WILL have repetitious consistency - for example if the crash is played slightly later than the kick you get a heavier feel - a pocket player like Phil Rudd will consistently produce the same slight delay and heavy sound. If you watch Phil you can see some serious concentration going on - even for a simple groove - this is because he is creating a precise feel or groove. So great players can play each individual percussive sound ahead, on top of or behind the beat. The groove becomes a groove when this is repeated consistently. Groove can vary between verse and chorus and speed can vary too and yet it all remains in the pocket. Steve Ferrone is a Master at pocket playing. Check out Steve Ferrone th-cam.com/video/Bk3N84ArTno/w-d-xo.html
Please don't get tired of me thanking you.........I am thrilled everyday by the progress I'm making.
If you knew some of the other comments I have to read, you'd know why I'd never get tied of that 🤣
@@8020drummer I need to think deep when here (your channel) like no other place, just to understand. But like I keep saying, your words and your methods seem to sink in. I was pissing myself with laughter tonight while working on this video. THANKYOU!
Guitar players input: I have played with plenty of "choppy" drummers but the ones with timing, feel and groove are few and far between. Add in show up on time and be committed to a project and you're basically looking for a unicorn. Want gigs? Do those 5 things.
Everyone wants commitment; no one wants to pay for it. I'll commit if I'm getting paid well for my time or the band is clearly on its way.
@@allrequiredfields move along, you want to get paid by me, earn it. I don't care what you think you are worth. Typical asshole drummer mentality, I thought I used to have to deal with it... I don't. This is why you are getting replaced by machines dude.
Cool vid man, love the Ringo comment, he still has groove swagger
Well said, much appreciated presentation.......
It's all about talent, facility, practice and LISTENING!!!! Turning your ears on, as I've heard it told. Playing for the music, not yourself or simply to impress someone else. If you play with the music's best interest in mind, you will - simply put - sound good.
By the way, I think the perfect name for what your talking about is Phil Rudd. Listen to back in black and count how many fills he does. Pretty much none. All just clean, solid, in the pocket time.
That “uncontrolled looseness” sounded great to me!
Karen Puglisi Lol, same tbh
@@karenpuglisi6171 aw c'mon, that guy was pretty good but that roll had so many rim shots/ stick hits. if you mic'd that up dry and listened to it on a record for example, the flaws would be evident. i'm not saying "fuck you, you're wrong for having an opinion" but that guy definitely has the potential to be much better with some discipline.
By focusing on the groove….my phone rang more….pretty simple !! Real nice stuff you have on your channel.
All right now it's time to translate this into my piano lines. Thanks for another excellent video
@ HIGHKARI - Ahh, I see you are a 'REAL' musician. How nice to read your comment.
@@willb3698 I can't tell if it's sarcasm? I just think that if I could play drums or at least understand What drummers are doing I could be a better pianist LOL
and then there's Matt Garstka who just plays everything perfectly regardless of difficulty
Matt Garstka destroys any drummer this guy mentioned in this video.
🤦🏻♂️😂
Timothy Hammonds I know not everything is a competition, but personally I don’t think Matt comes close to Vinnie.
@@timothyhammonds That's mostly a subjective claim where you'll find almost no consensus.
@@EncoreFilmsInc Matt's too math based for me.
Just play time. It's harder than you think.
THANKS DRUMMY FOR THE INFO!!!!
I think all us drummers need to listen to different genres of music other than the stuff we are into playing, I'm originally a thrash/death metal drummer, I'm 43 now I've been playing for 31 years, as soon as I started to watch and listen to other drummers outside the metal/hard core world that I love to play in, I improved massively, listening to drum n bass, to 70s funk and disco stuff it opened up a whole new level of metal drumming and changed the way I played for ever,
Now I can pretty much jump on the throne in any scene and fit in the pocket.
Is there a PDF for the 8020 Instagram challenge exercises?