I just bought a 6-cup Bialetti and have been tearing my hair out. No matter what I did, my coffee was bitter. I changed the grind, put in less water, more water, everything I could think of...except changing the water temp. I bought into the recommendations of many coffeephiles that I had to use almost boiling water. Then I saw your videos and you use room temp H2O, so I decided to give it a shot. The vast majority of the bitterness is gone. Thank the Lord! Now I just need to dial in the grind for the best coffee I know a moka pot can give me.
Whatever coffee comes out after sputtering is a bitter coffee. So, remove moka pot from heat as soon as a lighter colour coffee starts coming out after the dark black coffee. Because after light colour coffee the next stage is sputtering which has bitter coffee. I use 20 gram medium-fine grind, 200 ml water at room temperature, heat at medium, and I stop extraction once coffee is 160 ml. So remaining 40 ml will give you a bitter coffee, don’t extract it 😅
literally the same thing happened to me. the boiling water made the extraction slow and uneven. now i'm going to see how medium-dark roast tastes with full boiler and with paper filter and metal filter inside. i have been filtering after the brew using an aeropress knock-off metal filter. removing the fines completely changes the coffee and takes out a lot of the bitterness!
Matteo, your knowledge, with clear precise presentation about the Moka machine is very impressive. I’ve watch a few others explain techniques but you are hands down the best. Well done
Hi, Matteo! Thank you so very much for this explanation! In the morning, I prepared moka as you have recommended. Some technical details: 30 g of medium-ligh roasted coffee Kinu grinder at 2.4.0 (maybe, I should've gone finer, around 2.1.x) 270 g of water (~20 C) Brewed in Bialetti Venus stainless steel 6-cup moka pot I brewed with the knob of the gas stove positioned between 2 and 3 (the full range is: low-2-3-4-5-6-high). Coffee started to emerge 7 min 40 sec after I placed the moka pot on the stove. The brewing was done another ~2:40-3 min later. The result exceeded all my expectations! I have never had such a nice cup from moka pot! And this is the first time I understand why it is called espresso-like brewing method - the mouth feel, the flavour intensity are indeed reminiscent of espresso. Many thanks!
Thank you again Matteo! You are one of the few coffee aficionados who truly understands the Moka Pot. Your videos have been SO helpful and I’m very excited to try out these techniques!
I was literally testing different temperatures yesterday and today, and also checking again and again your older videos to see what you were saying about that subject.
I’ve tried many different coffee machines. I have just been bought Bialetti, first coffee brew got me hooked. Great way to make coffee, so simple, portable and cheap too. Now looking to experiment to dial in my best flavour. Great videos, thanks.
I have had very mixed results myself, sometimes, I use hot water and end up with sputtering in the moka, other days I get the best coffee I have ever had. The ONLY instance where I have had consistent results is when brewing dark roasts, the you should always use cold water (probably what Bialetti himself discovered when he invented the moka, as he most likely only had access to dark roasts). Thanks for the insights! Amazing as always :D
are you using pre ground? I think mine is as you said, darker roast need lower temps and lighter roast needs higher temps. I would guess your inconsistencies can be solved if you have capable grinder.
@@antiwoosh4302 I always grind at the moment, granted my grinder isn't the best but I also use a WDT tool and the same clicks on my grinder for consistency, my guess is that preheated water is more prone to overheating and therefore sputtering (makes sense since sputtering is caused by overheated water) so you would have to control everything very precisely. EDIT: now that I think about it, I almost never weight the water, maybe I should try doing that before jumping to the conclussion that my grinder isn't enough, could save a couple dozens of dollars that way lol
I use the small Brikka on a daily basis. I've tried hot water and paper filter. So far the best results have been with 120g room temperature water, no paper filter, no tamping... basically as simple as possible. I do use a homemade WDT to distribute the grounds in the basket.
I've always done 120g of water at room temp! Thank you for confirming it's the best!! 👍I tried using hot water a couple times and it tasted too bitter, plus it was a pain to tighten the pot before boiling on the stove.
@@PutRa-vf6kdgr it depends on the coffee you are using. Dark roast fit less, light more. The suggestion is to fill the basket properly and then measure how many grams you have. For that coffee stick with that dose.
I always use room temperature 🌡️ water And follow Matteo instructions on how to get the best ☕ coffee from a Moka Pot ! Perfect every time ! Thank You Matteo ! 👍✨☕😊 From West Coast/ Canada 🇨🇦
I have a one cup Moka and I use 10g fine ground coffee (60 clicks on Kingrinder K4). 50g freshly boiled water, left for 1 min before pouring. When the water is in the lower chamber it's 70c. I've never timed how long it takes for the coffee to come to the top of the funnel, but I guess around 90secs to 2mins. This gives me a short but intense shot that a perfect base for my flat white. When I tried the same recipe with cold water it took far longer to brew with no noticeable difference in taste. As I'm boiling the kettle anyway to heat my cup and milk jug, I'll keep using the hot water method.
I did NOT expect the huge impact of using room temperature water in my 3 cup moka with slightly dark roast coffee. The result is hugely different from starting with 90 or so degree water. The coffee is slightly more full bodied, but the taste now finally does justice at the great coffee quality and sweeter with the correct sourness and bitterness. Thanks Matteo!
Another excellent video. Definitely the go to man for all things coffee. Thanks for putting in the hard work so that I can get the maximum enjoyment from my coffee!
Well, I’m at my friends house and she loves Café Bustelo I like a different coffee from Puerto Rico what I have found is when I put the coffee grounds in i add table salt!!! it takes away the bitterness when I am at my own home. I use a coffee call El Coqui. I love that coffee. It’s never bitter.
I made my first cup this morning with boiled water a little over the valve and wondered why it didn't taste very great. I watched this video, went back to the kitchen, went easier on the grind and used room temp water to just below the valve. It came out tasting just as good as the espresso I get from the machine at work! Thanks, Matteo.
Ciao Matteo, thanks a lot for your videos. This in particular has changed my approach to coffee making in the moka pot big time. Suddenly the coffee tastes amazing.
Oh damn. I use a Moka for my morning cappuccino. This video was a game changer. Still have some bitter notes, but brewing 140g from room temperature really did enhance the sweeter notes providing a much more balance flavor profile for my cappuccino. Definitely skipping the preheat step moving forward
This is the best video on brewing mocha coffee that I have seen yet! Thanks for showing us how to tweak our mochas for the very best flavors. Very scientific, honest and personable. Well done, Matteo. Grazie!
Hi! Thank you very much for your comment. The reality is that different coffees need different approach because coffee is not all the same. Knowing how to control variables give you the possibility to make better coffee. My goal is to share this knowledge with you all. Thanks again 🙏
Well done Sir, one of the best moka pot videos out there! Would be great to see the temperature progression readings under each of the sample groups (i.e. start temp, mid extraction temp, final temp). Probably also good to see the start and end time for each as well. Again, great video. I feel I can be strategic with my moka and the roast type.
Thanks so much. putting all the times and temperature in the video was a bit too much. Then the video was too long. I hope you can get good info from it anyway.
Great video! Thanks to this i found out that i have to use almost maximum level of my heater to reach first extraction at ~3,5 minutes. Now it is much better and not burned which sounds weird 😄
Just seen this video, so a bit late on this and not sure if you'll see this. Interesting video, and I was surprised that the room temp brews came out slightly better, considering the very low brewing temps they started with. I was curious as how this same test would compare using a Venus or Musa (being stainless steel). Also to see whether the heat absorption of the aluminium base vs the thinner stainless base would make a difference to the starting temp. Kudos on this video - great idea and results.
I have been working on this for months now, trying different ratios and grind size. Going through this video and the ultimate moka pot video. I finally decide to combine both techniques and your ratio of 1:6.6 Man it's a flavorful balance cup of medium dark roast
@@matteofromtheswamps big thanks to you man, its a great great effort you given to this art of coffee making. Also in my country we use the Bialetti copy moka which gave me too much trouble on this journey but somehow i made it work
The water quality is absolutely crucial for a good coffee. In Sweden, we have very clean fresh calcareous spring water without additives, which makes the coffee perfect. In other countries they add chlorine to the water to prevent bacteria and then you get a bitter coffee. In that case, it is better to buy bottled water without gas to make coffee.
Hi Matteo, thanks a lot for this video. Changing hot for room temperature water really helped me get rid of the bitter taste and get a more sweet taste! I have one question: I start brewing with 120 grams of water and only get a yield of about 70 grams, you are getting 20 grams more with the same amount of water. I take the mokapot off of the stove once it starts sputtering. Is this due to the grind size or something else? (or is this normal?) Thanks again!
Glad to hear I helped. So the sputtering occurs when water boils in the boiler. It happens when coffee create too much resistance, so too fine grind size or when the heater is too high. A solution can be to remove the pot for a few seconds to let the water calm down and then place it back on the stove, you should then get a more regular flow until the end
Hi! thanks for the comment. in terms of heating technology is not a problem. but don't put the moka in the microwave because it's made of metal and metal doesn't go in the microwave
I have a freezer full of coffee 😅 I usually freeze rare coffee, unique competition coffee, already portioned and ready to use. The positive thing of freezing is the longer shelf-life of the coffee. The negative is that home freezer, slow freeze the coffee as well as the food. slow freezing brings to the breakage of the cells because the water inside expand (expansion is given by slow freezing). that means that after you defrost the item because the cells are broken aromatic parts and nutrients are going away. Now water in coffee roasted is very low, but it's there. So if you freeze the coffee and then you defrost it and you refreeze it is not good. You lose the quality, also the broken cells release the fats of the coffee, so you will see the beans shining. this fats in contact with oxygen left in the package start to oxidate, because oxidation of the fats happens in freezing temperature. So after a while your coffee will taste rancid. The best way to freeze the coffee is with a commercial blast chiller because you avoid the breakage of the cells. The best freezing practice for home is: portion the coffee in doses, vacuum seal them, place in the freezer and take out only the coffee you need. After that you can, grind the coffee straight from the package (than you need to consider a changing in grinding though), or keep the coffee to naturally defrost in the vacuum sealed package before opening it and brewing it. Never defrost coffee at open air, otherwise the coffee will absorb humidity from the air and it will be difficult to grind. Sorry for the long comment :)
@@matteofromtheswamps on the contrary, thank you for that detailed answer. I had no idea about the importance of fast freezing. I actually froze some beans in my normal freezer (so slow freezing). I noticed that it is a bit more difficult to grind the beans. Also, I need a little bit more coffee by weight to fill the basket of my Brikka. The end result is not better, I get no crema and less output. Taste-wise I don't see any improvement either.
I use room temperature water (I tried boiled water, but it never worked!), a full mug's worth which gets me 2/3 of a mug of coffee from my 6 cup (300 ml) moka. The water isn't far from the fill valve. I put in a heaped scoop and a bit of ground coffee, a bit more than I used to use in my mini cafetiere, though this isn't enough to fill the basket. I use low to medium heat on a small gas ring and take the pot off the heat at the first sign of spluttering. I also clean the pot after every use. But I still get bitter coffee sometimes. Is this something to do with the mismatch between the size of the pot and the amount of coffee I want?
Great video, I just got a Moka express as a gift from a friend in Italy and i was wondering what the major difference is if i put a bit too much water. Do i have to keep the level under the valve for the best result? Cheers from Sweden 🇸🇪
Thanks. Yes, always below for safety reason. Also for better extraction. Than if you prefer your coffee less strong you can add hot water in the cup after brewed the coffee.
@@matteofromtheswamps Thanks for the reply and good to know. though i prefer strong coffee so its fine. I just tried my first brew, i have an electric stowe so i put it to 4 of 6 at first and when the coffee started coming out at the top i turned it off and let it continue until it started to "splutter" then took it off right away. The taste was really nice i think, I used one of the coffees that my friend sent with the brewer (Lavazza crema e gusto). I will try the other one she sent tomorrow, (Lavazza Oro 100% arabica)
Going to try using 120ml of room temperature filtered water in my Brikka tomorrow morning instead of filling to the valve with boiled filtered water using my home roasted dark coffee (was supposed to be medium but I got distracted and it went a wee bit runaway exothermic on me 🤦). Thanks for reporting on this experiment! Since Brikka increases pressure to create more crema, I don't think I need a paper filter although I'll try that on my older Zanzibar Moka Pot.
Let us know how it goes! I also use the Brikka everyday. 120g water in at room temp. Approx 19g coffee grounds (depending on the coffee it can be more or less) and 60g liquid out. No paper filter.
@@nmatheis I have a pot filled with water nearby. When I hear/see that the moka is starting to sputter I immediately lift it up from the heat and put it in the water to stop the brewing process. More often than not I get 60 ml of brewed coffee. It can vary sometimes between 59 and 62 ml.
I never considered using a WDT tool in a mokapot. Should the grind be as fine as possible but not so small it falls through the holes in the basket? I use light roast and have been heating to 175 to 185F (85C) with 28g in a 6 cup New Venus stainless mokapot. Usually fill to top of the valve so will have to try below the valve.
it works pretty well. in moka pot should fine coarser than espresso. Water need to able to able to pass through the coffee. The pressure un moka pot is very low compared to espresso.
Hi Matteo, thanks for this interesting video. It's not clear to me the quantity of coffee used in the experiment. I use to put 18g of coffee for a 3 cups moka pot, but I see you are putting 16g. How much coffee do you advice to put in? Thank you
Hi Tommy, thanks for the comment. The quantity of coffee in the basket can be different based on the coffee you are using. Some of them have higher density than others. For example roasting profile can determine this. Dark roasted coffee is less dense than light. So in the same volume (moka pot basket), dark roast coffee weigh less. In my experience the basket can fit in between 16 to 20 gr. I suggest to fill the basket completely and from this you see the weight for that specific coffee
Hello Matteo, thank you for the helpful video. I am using a 2 cup induction Bialetti mocha pot and illy Classico pre-ground coffee in the moka preparation. I think this is medium roast coffee. At first I used 14 grams of coffee and 116 grams of water at room temperature and got around 22% extraction (I am using a scale to measure the weight of the coffee before brewing and after brewing and drying it in the oven, then taking the reduction in weight and dividing by the original weight).It seems 14 grams might be too much for the basket because I have to pack the coffee a little to get it all to fit. So I tried with 13 grams of coffee and still 116 grams of water at room temperature. With this the coffee tasted sour and sure enough I was getting about 17.5% extraction. Why did lowering the coffee weight lower the extraction? How can I get this back up while still using 13 grams of coffee? Should I increase the water as much as I can and also increase the starting water temperature? When you say fill to the valve level do you mean to the bottom of the ring that holds the moving part of the valve or just below the moving part of the valve? Thank you for your tips. Tom
Hello Tom, thanks for the comment. I think you were getting less extraction with less coffee because when you put 14 you pack well the coffee and this will make resistance increasing a bit the pressure and the contact time. Because you using pre ground I cannot tell you to grind finer. What you can do to increase the extraction with less coffee: 1 place a paper filter on the metal filter. This will increase the pressure and you will extract more. 2 you can use the method I use for the 6 cups moka to increase the contact surface. 3 use hot water (not boiling) to increase the extraction as I show in this video. When I say to the valve I mean below bottom of the ring, because as the water gets warm, it will expand a bit and we need to avoid it goes on the moving part. I hope my tips can be useful to you.
Hello Matteo. thank you for the advice. today I used 120 grams of water at 50 deg C and got around 20.7% extraction. I could already tell from tasting the coffee that it was less sour and slightly more balanced. Next time I will up the water temp to 80 deg C.
1 cup you mean placing less coffee in the basket? Because I never recommend that. I make a video where I explain why if you want to check it th-cam.com/video/81ZSKML44bY/w-d-xo.html
Hi Matteo! Can you please make a video or just explain to me how and when to use the reducer? I have a 2 cups GB Kitty Oro Moka Pot and it came with a reducer and I have no idea how to use it correctly. I believe it would really help me since I would only really use the Moka Pot for 1 cup instead of 2 and I believe that's where the reducer comes into play but I don't know how to use it! Thanks!
Hi, thanks is a good idea. Thanks. Yes, that is a screen to place inside the basket, But you need the basket that has an internal bump half way the board of the basket. that bump should hold the screen. Then you fill the basket with coffee until the top. It's used to brew less coffee in the moka as you said.
hi matteo, i rarely play with water volume in tbe bottom chamber, but i tweak with the coffee out in the upper chamber, so if i use dark roast i cut it short (not using all the water), which way do you think is better in your experience?
@@matteofromtheswamps Here's what I noticed. When I poured hot water, the coffee constantly came out sour, but when I tried to pour room temperature water, surprisingly, the acidity disappeared. Coffee is the same, and that's what the difference is when you change the water temperature.
I have a "6 cup" Moka pot, yours appears to be 3 cup. How would your recipe differ for the 6 cup? Just double the amounts? How many grams of coffee did you use in this test? Is it possible to get the same or similar results using half the qty of grounds and water (brew for 1 person instead of 2)? I've heard from others less water and grounds gives lower yield. I just don't want to always have to make coffee for 2 people when I'm alone.
Yes mine is a 3 cups. I use different approach with a 6 cups. Check this video if you didn't yet th-cam.com/video/9TwyYWFZoK8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=DWw9yrFMOAdrKCNq ratios are different in between 3 and 6. But if you place less water you can get a similar result. Now the problem of brewing coffee for one person with a big moka it's tricky because you don't get the good result as when you fill the basket with coffee until the top
I don’t understand why using hot water would give a different result from cold water other than the time to start the proces. I give my thoughts and invite anyone to point out where I’ve made an error. The brewing is driven by increase pressure caused by steam. Without steam, the water will not be pushed upwards through the coffee. Steam pressure above ambient is formed by water at 100°C or slightly more. At that point all the water in the boiler will be at around the same 100+°C. Starting with cold water means it will take longer for the water to raise to 100°C than when started at 85°C but the extraction process should be exactly the same. To compare the temperatures between the two we’d need to log the temps and put them in graphs to see if there are any differences. What might have a huge impact, I imagine, is the temperature of the last bit of water which will be very hot and what might extract a lot of bitter flavours. Taking the mokapot away from the heat before the last bit of water is violently sputtered out, might have much more influence on the taste of the coffee. Just my thoughts.
Water at 100C boils but steaming happens before even at 70 C . There is just a correlation in between numbers and sensory. Then based on the coffee you use you can shape variables and get the best out of it based on your preferences
@ Thank you for your answer and almost immediately as well. 👌🙏 Water will evaporate at all temperatures and you can certainly see damp escaping at 70°C but no pressure (enough to push the water up) will be built up below 100°C. This is why it takes a few minutes before we see the coffee appear and why it takes a bit longer when we start with colder water.
I bought some coffe from a shop. They told me this coffees roasted like City or full city. What should i do. I use bialetti express 3 cup. Less and room temp water or water until the valve and boiled?
There are plenty of grinder in the market. I think you don't need a super expensive grinder. Depend also if you brew the coffee in other different ways. What's your budget?
This is a video about water and of course it will follow the one about grind size. You read my mind. I'm already on the data collecting period. Once I can confirm my tests, I will share everything on a video. :)
I am drinking this kind of coffee every morning, so I see this process 2-3 times every morning and can share my experience. My point #1 is I would not wait until the moka squirts white foam regardless of the extraction percentage. Disclaimer: regardless of what I write below it is rather reasonable approach to care about own taste over the math behind the taste or the arguments one can express to prove his point, so everyone can like it brewed differently. OK. If I prepare the coffee for a person, who just cannot taste the difference between good moka and bad moka, I will not care at all how much coffee I get in the end, what is the yield. Prep it, heat it, shoot it 100%, poor it, forget it. Not my cup. It still will be drinkable. That's my excuse. I'm just making surrounding people happy they did not spend the time to prepare a cup of coffee for themselves. But If I brew it for myself, I will stop the process when liquid starts to noticeably watery bubble and when the level of the liquid fits my espresso cup-20%. I stop extraction by putting the moka into cold water when both conditions above are met regardless if I still have extractable coffee and access water in the tank. As a rule it start bubbling right after it reached the desired level. Just visually when I see you preparing the coffee I would not drink moka pot coffee after 85C on the thermometer. In that case it will be not sweet, will not be sour, but will bitter. 90C is an overextration, because the water will meet with coffee at 100C and this temp. burns sugars. Again just visually I would choose second coffee as the best one, then #4; #1+#3 I will either spill into the sink If I brew for myself or mix with milk and sugar if I brew for someone who cannot taste the difference. Why #2 is the best. The lowest yield gave better colour, the lowest yield ensured you brewed the coffee at the right temp, so there was no to little white foam squirting, if it is too intense I can add a drop of pure hot water, but honestly I will drink it neat in 100% cases. #4 gave you the good colour of the good coffee. Yield is higher than #2, but still due to the fact it had less water in the tank you did not have too much white foam in the cup, you did not overexract, you did not burn sugars. An outcome: if you closely watch the brewing process, it does not matter if the tank is full or not, if the water is preheated or not. If you do not watch the process, it is better to poor less water into the tank, so the there will be no water to produce white bubbles.
I have read that, water that has Magnesium and calcium salts, are much better at extracting coffee. So, using tap water may give you better coffee, as long as it's safe to drink...I guess...
magnesium and calcium are important minerals for flavours and other characteristics in coffee. They determine the "total hardness" of the water. But if that hardness is too high, then the coffee would taste more chalky and dull. Usually tap water have high content of calcium. It really depends where are you from and how is the water from the tap. But in general if you live in a big city, water quality is not really good. High TDS and also presence of chlorine, to kill bacteria and make the water safer.
Hm. In earlier videos you recommended starting with hot water and a reference of 150 grams of water. I understand the variables you describe at the end but I’m a bit confused
Hi, so in that video I'm showing how I was doing my coffee with Moka in that period, like around 2 years ago. I still use hot water but only when I brew light roast coffee. In this video I wanted to give a generic guideline depending on the coffee you use. Soon light roast vs dark roast will come. Sorry if I made you confused.
I'm now going to weigh my coffee & water, trying a few variations: just to taste the difference. I note that, as I have discovered, minimising the heat permits a gentle stream of coffee; rather than an angry sputtering.
Also, I there is some comments about the fact that if you fill the moka with a lot a water, there is less air, and according to some physics rules, if there is a few air left, this few air that can expend and less water can go out. More water in = less air = less water out. That sound logical in theory but I don't know about the moka pot application. There is a paper about that "Physics of a stove-top espresso machine", but I have to search more to remember
That is a nice comment. So how it works is that in the space left in the boiler we allow the steam created by heating the water to create pressure and this pressure will push the water up and then we know what happens. water stars to evaporate even from 60 degrees celcius, doesn't have boil. Now, all the water that can go out will go out, no matter the level of water you put in the boiler (of course some water will remain there at the end, I made a video explaining that). What you need to consider now is that different levels of water have also difference weight. If we put less water it will weight less. In fact I use the scale in the video. Now less quantity of water will get hot faster so it will create steam earlier than if you have full boiler. Also you will need less steam pressure to push up 120 g rather than 140 g because it weight less, so it's easier. That why it comes up earlier and at lower temperature. That was in a 3 cups moka. In a 6 cups moka you have even more water inside, that's why with 6 cups you have higher risk of sputtering. You need more pressure, that means more steam, that means more time on the stove, that means higher water temperature, that means boiling water and that means sputtering. Sorry for the long reply
Thank you. I am in England and I have been collecting rain water to use in my mocha pot. I find it is preferable to tap water and similar to bottled spring water. I also add hot milk to my coffee. I shake up the hot milk in a clean jar for a sort of latte.
Rainwater should probably be run thru a filter pitcher (Brita is one). Even though it's rain water, there still could be bad stuff in there, as all that rain has been in a pond/lake/puddle before it evaporates into fluffy rain clouds! 🤢 All waterways have pathogens in them.
So glad to find this video!! This is the information that I've been looking for. I use stainless steel moka pot on induction stove. I have tried many method but end up with under extracted coffee because I only fill 90 grams of water, thought it will give a full bodied and syrupy extraction, but it turns out to be very light. I have used the paper filter method, but used it in the wrong way that almost made my moka pot explode because of too much pressure. Thank you so much for making this video!!!
I like the experiment setup, but with just one sample of each class is not possible to extract any reliable conclusion. Without a confidence interval for each class it's not possible to know if there is an actual statistical difference.
Yes, in fact, that is not the whole experiment. That is just to show the conclusion. I've been collecting data for months and I'm continuing doing it on daily basis.
Very eye opening! I have been making my morning coffee in a moka pot for the past 10-12 years. I weigh the coffee (24.00g) but add room temperature carbon filtered water up to the bottom of the valve without weighing. It's hit or miss as sometimes the water level is up to the middle of the valve. Usually the coffee tastes good. Sometimes not so good. Today was a not so good cup, and the water level was to the middle of the valve. Thanks to your research and this video, I now know why. I will weigh my water from now on and keep the water level below the valve. Excellent timing for this video Matteo! I'm using an Alessi 9090/6 moka pot so I will need to experiment to find the ideal ml of H2O fo my taste. THANK YOU Matteo!!
Cool thought experiment but you only used 4 measurements and moka 1 and moka 3 are not that different, doesn't really prove much about temperature. I wonder what you would get if you did moka 1 four times :}
I just bought a 6-cup Bialetti and have been tearing my hair out. No matter what I did, my coffee was bitter. I changed the grind, put in less water, more water, everything I could think of...except changing the water temp. I bought into the recommendations of many coffeephiles that I had to use almost boiling water. Then I saw your videos and you use room temp H2O, so I decided to give it a shot. The vast majority of the bitterness is gone. Thank the Lord! Now I just need to dial in the grind for the best coffee I know a moka pot can give me.
Happy my video helped to achieve a better coffee. I have tasted this variable for months! Following this will help you a lot to dial in the coffee.
do the grind half way between coarse and medium also just make sure you are not padding it down
same here!
Whatever coffee comes out after sputtering is a bitter coffee. So, remove moka pot from heat as soon as a lighter colour coffee starts coming out after the dark black coffee. Because after light colour coffee the next stage is sputtering which has bitter coffee. I use 20 gram medium-fine grind, 200 ml water at room temperature, heat at medium, and I stop extraction once coffee is 160 ml. So remaining 40 ml will give you a bitter coffee, don’t extract it 😅
literally the same thing happened to me. the boiling water made the extraction slow and uneven. now i'm going to see how medium-dark roast tastes with full boiler and with paper filter and metal filter inside. i have been filtering after the brew using an aeropress knock-off metal filter. removing the fines completely changes the coffee and takes out a lot of the bitterness!
Matteo, your knowledge, with clear precise presentation about the Moka machine is very impressive. I’ve watch a few others explain techniques but you are hands down the best. Well done
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I really appreciate your kind words and I'm happy :)
Hi, Matteo! Thank you so very much for this explanation! In the morning, I prepared moka as you have recommended.
Some technical details:
30 g of medium-ligh roasted coffee
Kinu grinder at 2.4.0 (maybe, I should've gone finer, around 2.1.x)
270 g of water (~20 C)
Brewed in Bialetti Venus stainless steel 6-cup moka pot
I brewed with the knob of the gas stove positioned between 2 and 3 (the full range is: low-2-3-4-5-6-high).
Coffee started to emerge 7 min 40 sec after I placed the moka pot on the stove.
The brewing was done another ~2:40-3 min later.
The result exceeded all my expectations! I have never had such a nice cup from moka pot! And this is the first time I understand why it is called espresso-like brewing method - the mouth feel, the flavour intensity are indeed reminiscent of espresso. Many thanks!
Thanks so much for sharing your method with me. Happy you achieving a tasty cup of coffee :)
Thank you again Matteo! You are one of the few coffee aficionados who truly understands the Moka Pot. Your videos have been SO helpful and I’m very excited to try out these techniques!
Thanks for your comment. I really appreciate your kind words :)
I was literally testing different temperatures yesterday and today, and also checking again and again your older videos to see what you were saying about that subject.
I never talked about this in the previous ones because I was still testing. I hope we can find some correlation between my tests and yours.
Thank you man....the burnt kind of bitterness is gone when i use room temperature water....now i can really taste good coffee out of my moka pot.
I’ve tried many different coffee machines. I have just been bought Bialetti, first coffee brew got me hooked. Great way to make coffee, so simple, portable and cheap too. Now looking to experiment to dial in my best flavour. Great videos, thanks.
I think it's really dependant on roast level like you told, I also prefer room temperature water for darker roasts but hot water for lighter ones
that is the correct approach. Glad we are aligned.
I was brewing my coffee wrong ALL this time, I thought I was a profesional!
I followed your steps and in the first try Great Coffee, Thanks!
There is never wrong ways to brew coffee, we can always improve and look forward. And trust our taste
Greatest video of Moka Pots I have seen. Subscribed. Thank you and keep it up.
Hi! Thanks so much for the nice words and the support 🙏
I have had very mixed results myself, sometimes, I use hot water and end up with sputtering in the moka, other days I get the best coffee I have ever had. The ONLY instance where I have had consistent results is when brewing dark roasts, the you should always use cold water (probably what Bialetti himself discovered when he invented the moka, as he most likely only had access to dark roasts). Thanks for the insights! Amazing as always :D
are you using pre ground? I think mine is as you said, darker roast need lower temps and lighter roast needs higher temps. I would guess your inconsistencies can be solved if you have capable grinder.
@@antiwoosh4302 I always grind at the moment, granted my grinder isn't the best but I also use a WDT tool and the same clicks on my grinder for consistency, my guess is that preheated water is more prone to overheating and therefore sputtering (makes sense since sputtering is caused by overheated water) so you would have to control everything very precisely.
EDIT: now that I think about it, I almost never weight the water, maybe I should try doing that before jumping to the conclussion that my grinder isn't enough, could save a couple dozens of dollars that way lol
I use the small Brikka on a daily basis. I've tried hot water and paper filter. So far the best results have been with 120g room temperature water, no paper filter, no tamping... basically as simple as possible.
I do use a homemade WDT to distribute the grounds in the basket.
That is the best way to brew with brikka! Thanks for sharing
I've always done 120g of water at room temp! Thank you for confirming it's the best!! 👍I tried using hot water a couple times and it tasted too bitter, plus it was a pain to tighten the pot before boiling on the stove.
Amazing to hear that! So glad we are aligned!
For how many gram of coffee bro?
@@PutRa-vf6kdgr it depends on the coffee you are using. Dark roast fit less, light more. The suggestion is to fill the basket properly and then measure how many grams you have. For that coffee stick with that dose.
I always use room temperature 🌡️ water
And follow Matteo instructions on how to get the best ☕ coffee from a Moka Pot ! Perfect every time ! Thank You
Matteo ! 👍✨☕😊
From West Coast/ Canada 🇨🇦
Tack!
🙏 Thank you!
I have a one cup Moka and I use 10g fine ground coffee (60 clicks on Kingrinder K4). 50g freshly boiled water, left for 1 min before pouring. When the water is in the lower chamber it's 70c. I've never timed how long it takes for the coffee to come to the top of the funnel, but I guess around 90secs to 2mins. This gives me a short but intense shot that a perfect base for my flat white.
When I tried the same recipe with cold water it took far longer to brew with no noticeable difference in taste. As I'm boiling the kettle anyway to heat my cup and milk jug, I'll keep using the hot water method.
I did NOT expect the huge impact of using room temperature water in my 3 cup moka with slightly dark roast coffee. The result is hugely different from starting with 90 or so degree water. The coffee is slightly more full bodied, but the taste now finally does justice at the great coffee quality and sweeter with the correct sourness and bitterness. Thanks Matteo!
Grazie mille! If I had seen this sooner, maybe I would have been able to save a bag of beans that were too light for my moka technique
Thank you very much for the support 🙏 Hope this tip will make you waste less coffee
Another excellent video. Definitely the go to man for all things coffee. Thanks for putting in the hard work so that I can get the maximum enjoyment from my coffee!
Thank you very much for your comment and thanks for the nice words. 🙏
Thanks, Matteo! Grazie mille, great channel and videos!
Thank you very much for the support! I really appreciate it!
Magnífico video. Enhorabuena
Well, I’m at my friends house and she loves Café Bustelo I like a different coffee from Puerto Rico what I have found is when I put the coffee grounds in i add table salt!!! it takes away the bitterness when I am at my own home. I use a coffee call El Coqui. I love that coffee. It’s never bitter.
Yes, salt is a nice trick! Thanks for sharing :)
Thank you, Matteo! Your videos are really informative and explained so well that even a complete newbie can understand :)
Thank you very much for your comment and feedback. It means a lot for me what you said 🙏🏻
I made my first cup this morning with boiled water a little over the valve and wondered why it didn't taste very great. I watched this video, went back to the kitchen, went easier on the grind and used room temp water to just below the valve. It came out tasting just as good as the espresso I get from the machine at work! Thanks, Matteo.
Glad my video helped you!
Ciao Matteo, thanks a lot for your videos. This in particular has changed my approach to coffee making in the moka pot big time. Suddenly the coffee tastes amazing.
I'm so glad the video helped you to make better coffee. :)
Great video with so clear explanation! Subscribed! 👍👍
Thanks so much for your feedback and thank you for your support :)
Man, you did really ask the right questions. Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this!
Oh damn. I use a Moka for my morning cappuccino. This video was a game changer. Still have some bitter notes, but brewing 140g from room temperature really did enhance the sweeter notes providing a much more balance flavor profile for my cappuccino. Definitely skipping the preheat step moving forward
This is the best video on brewing mocha coffee that I have seen yet! Thanks for showing us how to tweak our mochas for the very best flavors. Very scientific, honest and personable. Well done, Matteo. Grazie!
Hi! Thank you very much for your comment. The reality is that different coffees need different approach because coffee is not all the same. Knowing how to control variables give you the possibility to make better coffee. My goal is to share this knowledge with you all. Thanks again 🙏
@@matteofromtheswamps I’m enjoying experimenting with different coffees, grinds, water temps etc. Thanks for sharing your craft.
Well done Sir, one of the best moka pot videos out there! Would be great to see the temperature progression readings under each of the sample groups (i.e. start temp, mid extraction temp, final temp).
Probably also good to see the start and end time for each as well.
Again, great video. I feel I can be strategic with my moka and the roast type.
Thanks so much. putting all the times and temperature in the video was a bit too much. Then the video was too long. I hope you can get good info from it anyway.
Thank you master🎉
Great video! Thanks to this i found out that i have to use almost maximum level of my heater to reach first extraction at ~3,5 minutes. Now it is much better and not burned which sounds weird 😄
Thanks for the comment and for sharing your experience. Also thanks for the support :)
Just seen this video, so a bit late on this and not sure if you'll see this.
Interesting video, and I was surprised that the room temp brews came out slightly better, considering the very low brewing temps they started with.
I was curious as how this same test would compare using a Venus or Musa (being stainless steel).
Also to see whether the heat absorption of the aluminium base vs the thinner stainless base would make a difference to the starting temp.
Kudos on this video - great idea and results.
Man I cant thank you enough. I now like my moka express coffee like my pour over. ❤ From Philippines 🇵🇭
Your comment makes me very happy! I hope to come to visit Philippines very soon!
Great video Matteo, on the spot with all the information, grazie - un abbraccio!
Thanks for the nice feedback. Grazie :)
Room temp or cool water and low heat always gave me the best coffee. I have a little steel moka pot for 1-2 people
Incredible results after this change!
Thank you for making my moka pot mornings awesome ❤
I'm so glad I could help you to improve your coffee :)
I have been working on this for months now, trying different ratios and grind size. Going through this video and the ultimate moka pot video. I finally decide to combine both techniques and your ratio of 1:6.6 Man it's a flavorful balance cup of medium dark roast
Finally I can taste the sugar of medium dark roast
🙌 and this makes me so happy! At the end my goal is to give the directions to make the coffee you like and I'm glad I could help you in this :)
@@matteofromtheswamps big thanks to you man, its a great great effort you given to this art of coffee making. Also in my country we use the Bialetti copy moka which gave me too much trouble on this journey but somehow i made it work
super cool data thanks!
Thanks so much for the comment 😊
The water quality is absolutely crucial for a good coffee. In Sweden, we have very clean fresh calcareous spring water without additives, which makes the coffee perfect. In other countries they add chlorine to the water to prevent bacteria and then you get a bitter coffee. In that case, it is better to buy bottled water without gas to make coffee.
Lucky Sweden! I come often there. I just love the water you have.
Thank you man! Nice trail! It saves me a lot of time and coffee !!!!
Thank so much for your comment.
I'm happy my video saved you some time. 😊
Thank you very much for this instructional video.
Thanks for your feedback 🙏
Hi Matteo, thanks a lot for this video. Changing hot for room temperature water really helped me get rid of the bitter taste and get a more sweet taste! I have one question: I start brewing with 120 grams of water and only get a yield of about 70 grams, you are getting 20 grams more with the same amount of water. I take the mokapot off of the stove once it starts sputtering. Is this due to the grind size or something else? (or is this normal?)
Thanks again!
Glad to hear I helped. So the sputtering occurs when water boils in the boiler. It happens when coffee create too much resistance, so too fine grind size or when the heater is too high. A solution can be to remove the pot for a few seconds to let the water calm down and then place it back on the stove, you should then get a more regular flow until the end
I liked a science you did 😊
شكرا جزيلا على الدلائل العلمية
Bravo!!🎉
Matteo! Very informative... Question on heating the water: Is microwaving the water the same as heating on the stove top?
Hi! thanks for the comment. in terms of heating technology is not a problem. but don't put the moka in the microwave because it's made of metal and metal doesn't go in the microwave
@@matteofromtheswamps of course. I meant the water. Thank you for responding! Great video content!! Keep it coming
@chessmambo Ok, good, sorry I wanted to make sure I wasn't suggesting you to do something dangerous :). Thanks
Mateo, have you experimented freezing the coffee beans? Any thoughts on that?
I have a freezer full of coffee 😅
I usually freeze rare coffee, unique competition coffee, already portioned and ready to use.
The positive thing of freezing is the longer shelf-life of the coffee.
The negative is that home freezer, slow freeze the coffee as well as the food. slow freezing brings to the breakage of the cells because the water inside expand (expansion is given by slow freezing). that means that after you defrost the item because the cells are broken aromatic parts and nutrients are going away. Now water in coffee roasted is very low, but it's there. So if you freeze the coffee and then you defrost it and you refreeze it is not good. You lose the quality, also the broken cells release the fats of the coffee, so you will see the beans shining. this fats in contact with oxygen left in the package start to oxidate, because oxidation of the fats happens in freezing temperature. So after a while your coffee will taste rancid. The best way to freeze the coffee is with a commercial blast chiller because you avoid the breakage of the cells.
The best freezing practice for home is: portion the coffee in doses, vacuum seal them, place in the freezer and take out only the coffee you need.
After that you can, grind the coffee straight from the package (than you need to consider a changing in grinding though), or keep the coffee to naturally defrost in the vacuum sealed package before opening it and brewing it. Never defrost coffee at open air, otherwise the coffee will absorb humidity from the air and it will be difficult to grind.
Sorry for the long comment :)
@@matteofromtheswamps on the contrary, thank you for that detailed answer. I had no idea about the importance of fast freezing.
I actually froze some beans in my normal freezer (so slow freezing). I noticed that it is a bit more difficult to grind the beans. Also, I need a little bit more coffee by weight to fill the basket of my Brikka. The end result is not better, I get no crema and less output. Taste-wise I don't see any improvement either.
@@rfdc yeah freezing change the dynamic of grinding. I don’t suggest freezing if the coffee is the one you use everyday
Thanks, this was a very useful experiment
Thank you so much :)
Can you drill a whole in the side and thread a temp gage in it to monitor water temp?
Yes you can. I don't have the kind of tool to do it unfortunately
You need more subs I've just got into Costco and you do a great job!
I wish that too. Thanks so much!
Thx for this very informative video. What do you think about using paper filter in the coffee chamber?
Do you mean paper underneath coffee or above coffee?
Thanks for sharing you method. Yes, if it works for you, stick with it!
Where is the water jug with the long spout you use to fill up the MOKA POT from? Thanks :)
That is one of my water kettle. I use it mainly to brew coffee, but also useful to dose water for the moka. It's the Fellow Stagg EKG
Wow, so 20 ml less water made like a 10 degrees difference, right? That's very interesting ! Thank you
Correct less water will give brewing water earlier
I use room temperature water (I tried boiled water, but it never worked!), a full mug's worth which gets me 2/3 of a mug of coffee from my 6 cup (300 ml) moka. The water isn't far from the fill valve. I put in a heaped scoop and a bit of ground coffee, a bit more than I used to use in my mini cafetiere, though this isn't enough to fill the basket. I use low to medium heat on a small gas ring and take the pot off the heat at the first sign of spluttering. I also clean the pot after every use. But I still get bitter coffee sometimes. Is this something to do with the mismatch between the size of the pot and the amount of coffee I want?
Thank you, Matteo. I wonder, how much water should I put in 2 cup Moka pot
It’s good to have a scale to understand how many gr of water you can put until below the valve and then for dark roast you place the 85% of the total
Nice video Matteo! ☕
Thanks :)
Thanks for all of the advice. Was that a 3 or 6 cup pot?
That was a 3 cups moka pot. But the system works for a 6 cups too
Great video, I just got a Moka express as a gift from a friend in Italy and i was wondering what the major difference is if i put a bit too much water. Do i have to keep the level under the valve for the best result? Cheers from Sweden 🇸🇪
Thanks. Yes, always below for safety reason. Also for better extraction. Than if you prefer your coffee less strong you can add hot water in the cup after brewed the coffee.
@@matteofromtheswamps Thanks for the reply and good to know. though i prefer strong coffee so its fine. I just tried my first brew, i have an electric stowe so i put it to 4 of 6 at first and when the coffee started coming out at the top i turned it off and let it continue until it started to "splutter" then took it off right away. The taste was really nice i think, I used one of the coffees that my friend sent with the brewer (Lavazza crema e gusto). I will try the other one she sent tomorrow, (Lavazza Oro 100% arabica)
Going to try using 120ml of room temperature filtered water in my Brikka tomorrow morning instead of filling to the valve with boiled filtered water using my home roasted dark coffee (was supposed to be medium but I got distracted and it went a wee bit runaway exothermic on me 🤦). Thanks for reporting on this experiment!
Since Brikka increases pressure to create more crema, I don't think I need a paper filter although I'll try that on my older Zanzibar Moka Pot.
Let us know how it goes!
I also use the Brikka everyday. 120g water in at room temp. Approx 19g coffee grounds (depending on the coffee it can be more or less) and 60g liquid out. No paper filter.
@@rfdc Thanks for the reply! Do you get ~60ml liquid out naturally or do you control the output in some way?
@@nmatheis I have a pot filled with water nearby. When I hear/see that the moka is starting to sputter I immediately lift it up from the heat and put it in the water to stop the brewing process.
More often than not I get 60 ml of brewed coffee. It can vary sometimes between 59 and 62 ml.
@@rfdc Thanks for the additional detail!
Yes that is a good move. Also yes, NO paper filter, that will increase even more the resistance that you don't need. Thanks for the comment
I never considered using a WDT tool in a mokapot. Should the grind be as fine as possible but not so small it falls through the holes in the basket? I use light roast and have been heating to 175 to 185F (85C) with 28g in a 6 cup New Venus stainless mokapot. Usually fill to top of the valve so will have to try below the valve.
it works pretty well. in moka pot should fine coarser than espresso. Water need to able to able to pass through the coffee. The pressure un moka pot is very low compared to espresso.
Hi Matteo, thanks for this interesting video. It's not clear to me the quantity of coffee used in the experiment. I use to put 18g of coffee for a 3 cups moka pot, but I see you are putting 16g. How much coffee do you advice to put in? Thank you
Hi Tommy, thanks for the comment. The quantity of coffee in the basket can be different based on the coffee you are using. Some of them have higher density than others. For example roasting profile can determine this. Dark roasted coffee is less dense than light. So in the same volume (moka pot basket), dark roast coffee weigh less. In my experience the basket can fit in between 16 to 20 gr. I suggest to fill the basket completely and from this you see the weight for that specific coffee
@@matteofromtheswamps Thank you a lot.
good videos man
Thanks!
Grazie Matteo video molto interessante
Grazie a te per il commento. Mi fa molto piacere
Hello Matteo, thank you for the helpful video. I am using a 2 cup induction Bialetti mocha pot and illy Classico pre-ground coffee in the moka preparation. I think this is medium roast coffee. At first I used 14 grams of coffee and 116 grams of water at room temperature and got around 22% extraction (I am using a scale to measure the weight of the coffee before brewing and after brewing and drying it in the oven, then taking the reduction in weight and dividing by the original weight).It seems 14 grams might be too much for the basket because I have to pack the coffee a little to get it all to fit. So I tried with 13 grams of coffee and still 116 grams of water at room temperature. With this the coffee tasted sour and sure enough I was getting about 17.5% extraction. Why did lowering the coffee weight lower the extraction? How can I get this back up while still using 13 grams of coffee? Should I increase the water as much as I can and also increase the starting water temperature? When you say fill to the valve level do you mean to the bottom of the ring that holds the moving part of the valve or just below the moving part of the valve? Thank you for your tips. Tom
Hello Tom, thanks for the comment. I think you were getting less extraction with less coffee because when you put 14 you pack well the coffee and this will make resistance increasing a bit the pressure and the contact time. Because you using pre ground I cannot tell you to grind finer. What you can do to increase the extraction with less coffee: 1 place a paper filter on the metal filter. This will increase the pressure and you will extract more. 2 you can use the method I use for the 6 cups moka to increase the contact surface. 3 use hot water (not boiling) to increase the extraction as I show in this video.
When I say to the valve I mean below bottom of the ring, because as the water gets warm, it will expand a bit and we need to avoid it goes on the moving part. I hope my tips can be useful to you.
Hello Matteo. thank you for the advice. today I used 120 grams of water at 50 deg C and got around 20.7% extraction. I could already tell from tasting the coffee that it was less sour and slightly more balanced. Next time I will up the water temp to 80 deg C.
Brilliant ❤
Thanks 🙏
For 1 cup how much coffee powder i should use. I have coffee powder only. Pl tell accordingly
1 cup you mean placing less coffee in the basket? Because I never recommend that. I make a video where I explain why if you want to check it th-cam.com/video/81ZSKML44bY/w-d-xo.html
Hi Matteo! Can you please make a video or just explain to me how and when to use the reducer? I have a 2 cups GB Kitty Oro Moka Pot and it came with a reducer and I have no idea how to use it correctly.
I believe it would really help me since I would only really use the Moka Pot for 1 cup instead of 2 and I believe that's where the reducer comes into play but I don't know how to use it!
Thanks!
Hi, thanks is a good idea. Thanks.
Yes, that is a screen to place inside the basket, But you need the basket that has an internal bump half way the board of the basket. that bump should hold the screen. Then you fill the basket with coffee until the top. It's used to brew less coffee in the moka as you said.
@@matteofromtheswamps Thank you for replying, Matteo! Yes, the basket has that internal bump. Thanks a lot for explaining!
@@realSkepSys perfect!
Did you used an aeropress paper filter in these exemples? I am just curious
No I didn't use it. With the filter all the numbers would definitely go up because the higher resistance the paper creates.
hi matteo, i rarely play with water volume in tbe bottom chamber, but i tweak with the coffee out in the upper chamber, so if i use dark roast i cut it short (not using all the water), which way do you think is better in your experience?
I suggest you placing less water like I explain in the video, you will also have a lower temperature, perfect for a dark roast coffee.
Thank you !!!
And if I have an medium level of roasting. Which is better to pour water, room temperature or hot?
I would start with room temperature always. Then depending on the coffee, if I need more energy to balance the coffee, I'll place warm water.
@@matteofromtheswamps Here's what I noticed.
When I poured hot water, the coffee constantly came out sour, but when I tried to pour room temperature water, surprisingly, the acidity disappeared. Coffee is the same, and that's what the difference is when you change the water temperature.
@@matteofromtheswamps So it can be concluded that medium roast coffee was not brewed well, that's why it turned out sour.
In order to achieve something like second moka, how much water should I put? mine is 2 cup venus thats why Im asking
What do you mean with "second" moka?
second one on the video. You said it gave the best result
Thanks Matteo
:)
I have a "6 cup" Moka pot, yours appears to be 3 cup. How would your recipe differ for the 6 cup? Just double the amounts? How many grams of coffee did you use in this test? Is it possible to get the same or similar results using half the qty of grounds and water (brew for 1 person instead of 2)? I've heard from others less water and grounds gives lower yield. I just don't want to always have to make coffee for 2 people when I'm alone.
Yes mine is a 3 cups. I use different approach with a 6 cups. Check this video if you didn't yet th-cam.com/video/9TwyYWFZoK8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=DWw9yrFMOAdrKCNq
ratios are different in between 3 and 6. But if you place less water you can get a similar result. Now the problem of brewing coffee for one person with a big moka it's tricky because you don't get the good result as when you fill the basket with coffee until the top
I don’t understand why using hot water would give a different result from cold water other than the time to start the proces. I give my thoughts and invite anyone to point out where I’ve made an error.
The brewing is driven by increase pressure caused by steam. Without steam, the water will not be pushed upwards through the coffee.
Steam pressure above ambient is formed by water at 100°C or slightly more. At that point all the water in the boiler will be at around the same 100+°C.
Starting with cold water means it will take longer for the water to raise to 100°C than when started at 85°C but the extraction process should be exactly the same.
To compare the temperatures between the two we’d need to log the temps and put them in graphs to see if there are any differences.
What might have a huge impact, I imagine, is the temperature of the last bit of water which will be very hot and what might extract a lot of bitter flavours. Taking the mokapot away from the heat before the last bit of water is violently sputtered out, might have much more influence on the taste of the coffee. Just my thoughts.
Water at 100C boils but steaming happens before even at 70 C . There is just a correlation in between numbers and sensory. Then based on the coffee you use you can shape variables and get the best out of it based on your preferences
@ Thank you for your answer and almost immediately as well. 👌🙏
Water will evaporate at all temperatures and you can certainly see damp escaping at 70°C but no pressure (enough to push the water up) will be built up below 100°C. This is why it takes a few minutes before we see the coffee appear and why it takes a bit longer when we start with colder water.
I bought some coffe from a shop. They told me this coffees roasted like City or full city. What should i do. I use bialetti express 3 cup. Less and room temp water or water until the valve and boiled?
Wich manual grinder do you recomend for the mokapot?
There are plenty of grinder in the market. I think you don't need a super expensive grinder. Depend also if you brew the coffee in other different ways. What's your budget?
I read that the 1zpresso q2 heptagonal is similar to comandante (the grinder that you use very often)
150 dollars will be my budget for the grinder
@@FernandoReyes-vt1il exactly 1zpresso produce good handgrinders, also there is Timemore chestnut c3 pro.
I'm now trying to find the video where the guy suggested using boiled water; a suggestion that I took and have been drinking, well simply, bad coffee!
what about grind size?
This is a video about water and of course it will follow the one about grind size. You read my mind. I'm already on the data collecting period. Once I can confirm my tests, I will share everything on a video. :)
So do I measure to until the valve then..minus 20grams?
I do that with a 3 cups moka pot. You can try with that, or also with less or more water. minus 20 grams is a good starting point
@matteofromtheswamps I have gone through a lot of coffee trying to get the perfect creme lol..
I am drinking this kind of coffee every morning, so I see this process 2-3 times every morning and can share my experience. My point #1 is I would not wait until the moka squirts white foam regardless of the extraction percentage.
Disclaimer: regardless of what I write below it is rather reasonable approach to care about own taste over the math behind the taste or the arguments one can express to prove his point, so everyone can like it brewed differently.
OK. If I prepare the coffee for a person, who just cannot taste the difference between good moka and bad moka, I will not care at all how much coffee I get in the end, what is the yield. Prep it, heat it, shoot it 100%, poor it, forget it. Not my cup. It still will be drinkable. That's my excuse. I'm just making surrounding people happy they did not spend the time to prepare a cup of coffee for themselves.
But If I brew it for myself, I will stop the process when liquid starts to noticeably watery bubble and when the level of the liquid fits my espresso cup-20%. I stop extraction by putting the moka into cold water when both conditions above are met regardless if I still have extractable coffee and access water in the tank. As a rule it start bubbling right after it reached the desired level.
Just visually when I see you preparing the coffee I would not drink moka pot coffee after 85C on the thermometer. In that case it will be not sweet, will not be sour, but will bitter. 90C is an overextration, because the water will meet with coffee at 100C and this temp. burns sugars.
Again just visually I would choose second coffee as the best one, then #4; #1+#3 I will either spill into the sink If I brew for myself or mix with milk and sugar if I brew for someone who cannot taste the difference.
Why #2 is the best. The lowest yield gave better colour, the lowest yield ensured you brewed the coffee at the right temp, so there was no to little white foam squirting, if it is too intense I can add a drop of pure hot water, but honestly I will drink it neat in 100% cases. #4 gave you the good colour of the good coffee. Yield is higher than #2, but still due to the fact it had less water in the tank you did not have too much white foam in the cup, you did not overexract, you did not burn sugars.
An outcome: if you closely watch the brewing process, it does not matter if the tank is full or not, if the water is preheated or not. If you do not watch the process, it is better to poor less water into the tank, so the there will be no water to produce white bubbles.
Here we go!!
I have read that, water that has Magnesium and calcium salts, are much better at extracting coffee.
So, using tap water may give you better coffee, as long as it's safe to drink...I guess...
magnesium and calcium are important minerals for flavours and other characteristics in coffee. They determine the "total hardness" of the water. But if that hardness is too high, then the coffee would taste more chalky and dull. Usually tap water have high content of calcium. It really depends where are you from and how is the water from the tap. But in general if you live in a big city, water quality is not really good. High TDS and also presence of chlorine, to kill bacteria and make the water safer.
Hm. In earlier videos you recommended starting with hot water and a reference of 150 grams of water. I understand the variables you describe at the end but I’m a bit confused
Hi, so in that video I'm showing how I was doing my coffee with Moka in that period, like around 2 years ago. I still use hot water but only when I brew light roast coffee. In this video I wanted to give a generic guideline depending on the coffee you use. Soon light roast vs dark roast will come. Sorry if I made you confused.
Hello! would a slightly coarser grind in moka1 reduce the extraction mok2 levels?
I'm now going to weigh my coffee & water, trying a few variations: just to taste the difference.
I note that, as I have discovered, minimising the heat permits a gentle stream of coffee; rather than an angry sputtering.
Let me know how that go. Yes lower heat less sputtering and better taste
Also, I there is some comments about the fact that if you fill the moka with a lot a water, there is less air, and according to some physics rules, if there is a few air left, this few air that can expend and less water can go out. More water in = less air = less water out. That sound logical in theory but I don't know about the moka pot application. There is a paper about that "Physics of a stove-top espresso machine", but I have to search more to remember
That is a nice comment.
So how it works is that in the space left in the boiler we allow the steam created by heating the water to create pressure and this pressure will push the water up and then we know what happens.
water stars to evaporate even from 60 degrees celcius, doesn't have boil.
Now, all the water that can go out will go out, no matter the level of water you put in the boiler (of course some water will remain there at the end, I made a video explaining that).
What you need to consider now is that different levels of water have also difference weight.
If we put less water it will weight less. In fact I use the scale in the video.
Now less quantity of water will get hot faster so it will create steam earlier than if you have full boiler. Also you will need less steam pressure to push up 120 g rather than 140 g because it weight less, so it's easier. That why it comes up earlier and at lower temperature.
That was in a 3 cups moka. In a 6 cups moka you have even more water inside, that's why with 6 cups you have higher risk of sputtering. You need more pressure, that means more steam, that means more time on the stove, that means higher water temperature, that means boiling water and that means sputtering.
Sorry for the long reply
@@matteofromtheswamps Thank you for everything. That is very interesting. Moka pot is very interesting.
Thank you. I am in England and I have been collecting rain water to use in my mocha pot. I find it is preferable to tap water and similar to bottled spring water. I also add hot milk to my coffee. I shake up the hot milk in a clean jar for a sort of latte.
Rainwater should probably be run thru a filter pitcher (Brita is one). Even though it's rain water, there still could be bad stuff in there, as all that rain has been in a pond/lake/puddle before it evaporates into fluffy rain clouds! 🤢 All waterways have pathogens in them.
Grazie!
Prego!
So glad to find this video!! This is the information that I've been looking for. I use stainless steel moka pot on induction stove. I have tried many method but end up with under extracted coffee because I only fill 90 grams of water, thought it will give a full bodied and syrupy extraction, but it turns out to be very light. I have used the paper filter method, but used it in the wrong way that almost made my moka pot explode because of too much pressure. Thank you so much for making this video!!!
I like the experiment setup, but with just one sample of each class is not possible to extract any reliable conclusion. Without a confidence interval for each class it's not possible to know if there is an actual statistical difference.
Yes, in fact, that is not the whole experiment. That is just to show the conclusion. I've been collecting data for months and I'm continuing doing it on daily basis.
@@matteofromtheswamps interesting, is the data public? I'd love to take a look!
Very eye opening! I have been making my morning coffee in a moka pot for the past 10-12 years. I weigh the coffee (24.00g) but add room temperature carbon filtered water up to the bottom of the valve without weighing. It's hit or miss as sometimes the water level is up to the middle of the valve. Usually the coffee tastes good. Sometimes not so good. Today was a not so good cup, and the water level was to the middle of the valve. Thanks to your research and this video, I now know why. I will weigh my water from now on and keep the water level below the valve. Excellent timing for this video Matteo! I'm using an Alessi 9090/6 moka pot so I will need to experiment to find the ideal ml of H2O fo my taste. THANK YOU Matteo!!
Thanks for your comment and I'm happy you could get good info from this video. I'm happy :)
professor matteo, M.MP (magister of moka pot) hahaha
ahahah thanks :)
I just bought a smaller Moka Pot. There’s just too many variables to be consistent with every type of roast and bean out there
Cool thought experiment but you only used 4 measurements and moka 1 and moka 3 are not that different, doesn't really prove much about temperature. I wonder what you would get if you did moka 1 four times :}
I did it plenty of times, months of data. The video shows the results, not the whole data collection. The pattern is pretty similar