DESTROYING Dominion Battleships! (with FACTS & LOGIC)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- In this Dominion War special episode we take an in depth look at the Dreaded Dominion battleships. at 1500m long, bristling with polaron phasers & torpedoes, Sporting a pair of heavy siege guns, and boasting a heavily armoured hull. The Jem'hadar battleship was the most powerful warship to terrorize the alpha quadrant during the dominion war. even so it was not invicible and during the course of the war several would be lost to enemy action, and to its own design flaws...
STO screenshots from the 4th combined fleet and my Community
![เปิดบ้าน พี่ตูน Bodyslam หลังใหม่คนแรก ที่ภูเก็ต l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/flFwcmyDQSk/mqdefault.jpg)
I remember when Skiso destory dozens of Dominion battleship by shooting freaking laser beams from his eyes.
Just as Federation founders intended.
I have a Defiant for self defense, Just as the Federation Founders intended....
Decriminalize Romulan disruptor weapons and ale! The Federation constitution defends both rights.
Every time the Federation fought a Dominion Battleship without Sisko they moaned, "If only Sisko were here he would consume the Dominion Battleships with fire from his eyes and bolts of lightning out of his ass!" That's a real quote! ... From Braveheart...
@sbkeel5639
That's not Ben Sisko.
Ben Sisko is seven feet tall and melts Founders with slugs of his own powdered bell peppers levels entire Dominion bases with vats of his famous jambalaya.
Freaking LAZER BEAMS!!!
The leaders of the Dominion can’t really keep a level head when by default they don’t even have heads.
But they do tend to stay level as they prefer the liquid form.
Very intersting, wasn't expecting a Hutet Class Battleship to attack one of the Dominion Battleships but a pleasnt suprise as i love to see the Hutet Class.
*_"No one expects the Hutet Inquisition!_*
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069you’re not wrong, I guess.
Wait hang on Venom-you went there with the scuttled Battleship thing-starts laughing heavily at that one.
No battleship is invincible. But a good battlegroup would definitely make them very hard to defeat. Each should have had an escort of 1x3 Galor cruiser squadron, and at least 4x3 Jem Hadar fighter squadrons.
Alas they were never given to the joint orders…probably cuz they were too slow >:P
@@geekiusmaximus1882 True!
Would love to see a Reman vs. Jem'Hadar episode. Data mentions the Reman battles in Nemesis, but it was never touched on again in canon.
_"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way."_ -Captain John Paul Jones.
The Dominion dreadnought/battleship is indeed a powerful vessel, but no matter how mighty a ship, if the doctrine of using it is poorly conceived then it will be more of a hinderance than a strength.
It will be neat to see elaboration of those last battleships during the Battle of Cardassia.
Would definitely be awesome seeing a group of Defiants, Peregrines and even the Condors doing a reverse pearl harbor on one Jem'Hadar Dreadnought.
would that be cool? absoloutely! would it do anything? probably not...
@@venomgeekmedia9886 probably annoy the living heck out of the Dreadnought because the ships and fighters keep attacking from multiple directions.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That means an Admiral definitely tried it then. That may explain why we don't see many of them. The largest selection of them was grouped together for the attack and squished.
It’s interesting to note that for all of the flexibility and fluidity we give the dominion’s fleet doctrine credit for, their flexibility does have a hard limit, as they seem to be utterly incapable of adapting their doctrine to counter multiple kinds of dissimilar threats at the same time. They seem to only be able to adapt their doctrine to a single kind of enemy at a time. I wonder if it has anything to do with the lack of different ship classes in their fleet and the overall capability gap that is left between each of their ship classes, which are all widely varying in size. The lack of medium sized destroyers, frigates, and cruisers does seem to make it difficult to counter joint allied fleets, which is a strength the other alpha quadrant powers seem to have over the dominion
I think it may be an artifact of their situation in the Gamma Quadrant. I don't really think they have any peer power in that Quadrant(virtually every non-Dominion race we see in the Gamma Quadrant is either subservient to the Dominion or doesn't seem to be as powerful as a second rate Alpha Quadrant power like the Cardassians, Gorn or Tholians), so they haven't been forced to adapt to someone adapting to them(like the Federation had with the Klingons and Romulans.) So (rather paradoxically for a race of shapeshifters) they developed their current doctrine and, after centuries, it ossified. To be fair it IS a flexible, effective doctrine when dealing with lesser powers, but it comes up short when facing a peer or near-peer opponent. That's likely why they needed the Cardasians and the Breen to fill in the gaps in their Doctrine.
As for the Battleship, I think it was a misstep, but an understandable one. I think they misidentified the real threat in the Alpha Quadrant as the D'Deridex, Negh'Var, Galaxy and Sovereign classes. So they built the Battleship to counter those. Unfortunately they didn't realize that (especially with the Federation) it was the large numbers of medium weight combatants that gave the Alpha powers flexibility.
Not every warship is invincible. Even the Dominion Battleship.
You just *know* there's at least one Vorta out there who's sitting in Jail and saying something to the effect of "AcKTsHUllY we scuttled our great battleship, the Royal Na-er, Federation Allies didn't akshully sink it okaaaayyy" God that's so annoying. YOU LOST. TAKE THE L! YOU SUCK!!
Cause like Bisco, you made a very fancy battleship that actually had little practical value that wasted a ton of resources, and, predictably, when faced with opponents that actually knew what they were doing, they lost, hard.
Good vid tho!!!
Romulan Commander Tomalak who was played by the wonderful Andreas Katsulas; Yoda rest him.
I swear his voice was transcendent - I would have paid Tyler Swift scalper prices for a theatre ticket just to hear him read a phone book. His voice still haunts me, in a good way.
Watch Babylon 5, he's great as G'kar there❤
1. Its a beautiful ship in Star trek Online.
2. Its basically the IJN Yamato, stayed in dock for a long time, and you want to be careful using it.
All the windows baffle me. They don’t have civilians, science labs, or anything that would necessitate having a lot of “people” on board. (Jem’Hadar don’t count as people in a typical sense, because they have no lives aside from battle.) As testament to that, their other ships don’t even have view screens. So why so many damn windows? Is it just to show scale?
To give the Vorta bottle collections a view.*
*A cut-scene from DS9 revealed that Weyoun collected bottles and other weird detritus during his time on DS9 during Dukat's occupation in the beginning of the War.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069but they look cool on screen😅
To satisfy the ego of a founder should one come onboard
As well, Jem'Haddar use VR displays to see out.
Having the hull be unbroken solid blocks of armour would be beneficial.
But on the flip side, there's other Dominion member species on board, and they may find windows useful.
Yeah, but what if the windows are either coated with, (or made out of), transparent neutronium? 😏
Sounds like the dominion would have been better off letting the Cardassians build them a dozen Hutets instead.
Up until that little moment ....
What’s this nonsense about strong and independent Cardassian military capability? Then how are we supposed to make them our vassal if we give them more battleships then we have? Absurd proposition, most absurd
Fantasy Fight: A fleet of Dominion battleships vs. an equal number of Husnock warships...😱
For the battleship engaged in the Badlands with it's warp down, I get the impression of something like the Musashi. Attacked by the USN, just sending continuous bombing runs after her with her having no escort, being picked apart en masse while isolated.
Musashi was not unescorted when sunk (actually, even Yamato wasn't, but this late in the war the pickings where slim).
Musashi was part Kurita's Center force, containing 5 battleships (Musashi, Yamato, Nagato, Kongõ and Hurana), 10 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers (modern although small Agano class) and 15 destroyers. Three heavy cruisers where however already taken out by submarine attack (Kurita's flagship Atago and Maya sank, Takao was detached and send back to Brunei with 2 destroyer escorts).
Why does this remind me of the old argument over who would win: The Borg vs Dominion. Would make for a beautiful shot of the Battleship fire at a Cube. (I think the Borg win at least 7/10 against the Dominion. Changeling shape shifting might allow the Dominion to attack the Borg at their core. Ironically like the Borg do with their Nanites. Kinda similar to what Data did in Best of Both Worlds part two. Changeling sabotage in general might be the best weapon the Dominion has against the Borg’s more advanced technology). Can’t wait for the Battlespace of the invasion of Cardassia.
Just bring more cubes
I envision the Dominion ramming the cubes in a battle of attrition that they would eventually win. The Borg would not bother assimilating the Jem'Hadar because of the Ketracell White (remember Seven said assimilating the Kazon was not worth it so it would be the same to have a drone that needs extra support to deal with White deficiency), but they would assimilate the Vorta to learn all they need and would love to figure out how to assimilate a Founder
The Borg have hundreds and likely thousands of vessels as large or larger than tactical spheres, and many thousands of smaller spheres, scouts, and probes. Transwarp will let them Ferret out the Founders, unless they scatter. In the end, the Borg might gain some useful technologie, but they might be overextended in reach attempting to hold all of Dominion territory.
@@Euripides_Panz And they gonna send that fleet against the Dominion the same way they send it against the federation? One at a time every five years?
@@athrunzala6919 well, using the inverse plot armor rule, if the feds had to deal with a single cube every 5 years, then each Dominion battleship would have to face an entire unimatrix, with a fleet of 100 tactical cubes, each with its own ancillary fleet of assimilator cubes, spheres and probes.
The Dominion lost the war the second they needed this thing. It’s an admission that your attack wings aren’t a match for the designs and tactics of the quadrant’s powers, which all three have gained from centuries of knocking bells out of each other.
I have my doubts the Dominion have ever had a challenging opposition since its infancy.
It's like Star Wars, Grand Admiral Thrown thought the Death Star was a mistake as thousands of Star Destroyers could have been built and manned in its place
@@athrunzala6919the real mistake was building a second one after the rebels so easily destroyed it.
I love that I can listen to your videos and imagine I'm hearing an in universe presentation at one of those symposiums they're always shuttling to or from at the start of an episode.
Oh the Dominion Battleship they have weaknesess but I would advise against taking a Defiant class to try to exploit them. Well unless you have Sisko and the rest of the crew onboard but that's for different reason.
Or more than one Defiant or similar class.
What made planes effective against warships is that you can get many planes to attack a single target like mosquitos, and one battleships can't sway so many targets.
There was a whole episode where a crew of cadets tried to use some kind of weakness to a particular type of radiation to liquify some vital component of a battleship. It didn’t work.
@@michaelbarnard8529 That was the joke.
Reflecting on the telling point of 'learning the lesson too well', it has me thinking about the WWII Yamato-class battleships and how I see similarities in the strategic way of thinking. Such an investment as you said has little or no flexibility as new technologies and changes the opponents make, and they struggle to keep up. It almost seems to predicate getting a 'quick' victory to logistically sustain such behemoths as well. If you don't get the quick victory, what's Plan B?
Yamato was bad luck really. When layed down, battleships were still thought of as the main heavy units of a Navy. Its The technological leap foward in WWII that sank it. Everyone still built the Battleships that had started building at the start of the war. Only one, HMS Vanguard was started during the War. Not one BB has been built since. Its down to the orders of magnitude leaps in aircraft technology in the late 30s that ultimately sank Yamato. Spitfire Mk I (1938) 355mph 8x7.7mm MG. Spitfire Mk XIV (1944) 455mph 2x20mm cannons 4x7.7mm MG. The Spit triples firepower and engine horsepower in half a decade. 250 and 500 pound bombs were the norm at the start. By Yamato going down.1000 pound plus was the norm for bombs. Plus the specials like the Tall Boy (12k) and Grand Slam (22k) bombs. Little prewar could have even carried these things as cargo, never mind as a weapon.Thats the sort of quantum leap that was happenning during the war.
As aside. I would have liked to see what a Tall Boy would have done to Yamato. The one dropped on Bismarck when straight through, and out the bottom of the ship.
The Dominion certainly had its blinkers on when designing these ships for Alpha Quadrant combat. It one thing to slowly take over the Gamma Quadrant in centuries. Its quite another to take on another quadrant with active an large navies. The Dominon should have concentrated on their easier to produce and crew ships and use their normal Soviet style attrition tactics, turned up to eleven. While lack of yard space is always a problem for attrtion warfare. How many Battlecruiser and Bug ships could have been produced for similar resource cost and time for one of these things.
@@Yandarval
I thought it was Tirpitz that the British were dropping the heavy stuff on, specifically Tallboy going through.
Bismarck was torpedoed and attacked with standard naval artillery.
@@Euripides_PanzYou would be correct in Tirpitz being the one that got Tallboy'd. Op probably got confused between them.
Funnily enough the Dominion Battleship would have worked in the Dominion Doctrine if they didn't lug it around everywhere. It is an insane Siege ship, isolate a Starbase and call in 5 of these, isolate a Colony and the Dominion Siege wing arrives afterwards to end it. Have something that is high value that can't move, bring in the mobile heavy hitters to help defend it. Move several of these in overlapping fields of fire and hold the line while the rest of the Dominion forces are using their mobility to box in the enemy fleets.
Dominion battleship according to your own cumulative metrics rating video for tactical and strategic scores you did is by far the best battleship of the war, perhaps the dominion doctrine around supporting the battleship and maximizing its value were bad, but there is nothing wrong with it, it was hands down the best battleship by a mile and the most powerful and dominating ship of the war
Hmm, I would rather have a Sovereign. Far more independent flexible (in no small part due to their speed advantage against, well everything), without much downgrade in any other department (except build speed and armour).
The Dominion battleship can't retreat. Hot shot cadets flying little ships can't escape.
Beware the monster in the deep...
2 ideas, first - maybe being solidified by the plague had a psychological effects on the founder
Second - I think it makes sense to have a unit (NPI) to deal with federation starbases, a siege breaker, and a kind of forward deploying starbase
It doesn't make sense in the AQ battleship race as the battle cruiser was well within the typical battleship weight class. These things had essentially the size of Galaxy classes and technologically the dominion was more than equal if not slightly more advanced
What's your opinion on the Interstellar Concordium from the Starfleet Command games? Sort of a 23rd Century/TMP era Dominion.
I do have to disagree with why the Dominion Battleship helped the Dominion lose the war, which forced the Dominion to fight instead of retreat for the Dominion rarely retreated. Sure, they fall back when outmaneuvered and the Changelings would face death if they didn't retreat as the Battle of DS9 proves. However, the Battle of Chin'toka shows the Dominion will stay and fight to inflict as much damage to the enemy as possible via kamikaze if no Dominion assets. Not to mention at the Battle for Cardassia the Changling was willing to just sacrifice their entire forces just to cripple the Federation and only back down to save her people.
Also, while they had the fastest ships at Impulse (sub-light speed), with only a few Federation and Klingon ships matching or outperforming them, they were the slowest when it came to warp speeds (FTL speeds).
No, the thing about the Dominion Doctorine I believe focuses on swarm tactics, disposable fireships, combat focus around shock and awe, and the ability to quickly absorb losses. The Battleship, while powerful, was a slow-moving target that the Dominion could only build in small numbers they could not treat as disposable units.
It was also hurt the Jem'Haddar may have difficulty using the ship effectively for they were oganically programmed with Dominion tactics which were not centered around large starships. It is basically the equivalent of a fighter pilot who was trained all their life to fly fighter aircraft to be told to command a battleship. So they were sending them into kill boxes others were able to blast away and took resources that could build large swarms of smaller ships into targets others would prioritize.
fantastic analysis as always! thank you!
“You won’t just deploy one battleship-“ meanwhile at Benzar
Essentially the reasons why the Jem'Hadar battleships lost in battle: they were "space tanks" relying on allied 'air support' and frontline 'infantry' to cover their butts. Defining them as tanks due to; big, could take a lot of hits, slow moving, powerful weapons, and durable shells, which meant that ll together they were better at offense but relied on the fellow Dominion vessels to keep them from being taken out by Allied anti-tank firepower.
I never thought seeing them as equivalent to tanks would explain why they were so dangerous, but also makes them equivalent to both the Panzer IV tanks and the Bismark-class battleships. The idea of trying to scuttle but being "too well-built" almost reminds me of the story of British soldiers failing to blow up a German vessel and the Germans "efficiented" themselves to losing an entire dock because they fixed a small issue in the explosive that destroyed the shp and their dockyard.
A slight correction. I see the Battleship as something equivalent to heavy and super heavy tanks like the Maus, T95, Tortoise, Tiger, King Tiger, KV or IS series tanks. All relatively(or absolutely) slow moving, heavily armored units requiring massive support from other units but are insanely powerful when used within their limits. (Tanks like the Panzer IV, M4 Sherman or modern main battle tanks are actually fairly fast and flexible units when used correctly.)
As for comparing the Dominion battleship to the Bismark(or even the IJN Yamato), I think that is a much better comparison.
Honestly, I think in the world of trek the fast battleship is a better choice as keeping pace with the rest of the fleet is important just in the ability to protect the battleship but also in being able fulfill the myriad needs a battleship can bring to the the fight while being able to adapt to the quickly changing battlespace. You could probably make 2 sovereigns and 2 Galaxy's with the time and material you put towards one dominion battle ship, or a neghvar and a handful of vorchas, or multiple hutets. Numbers generally wins in a battle to a certain extent, so being able to produce more numbers, increasing the scale of what is available can mean that you can even just to bypass one big obstacle such a dominion battle ship and move to secure more objectives.
"More like battle-shits, am I right?"
-Captain Picard, probably
The comparison to the old guard honestly really makes me think more of the Joint Orders…and wondering whether or not they were really that effective at all.
Thanks bud this was a great breakdown
The S stands for Superman.
No, the S stands for Sisko. Great thumbnail 😊 and analysis
The bigger they are the harder they fall?
No, The bigger they are, The harder they HIT YOU!
Raphael "Well, you know what they say; The bigger they are...!"
[Gets his butt kicked]
Michaelangelo "The more bones they break".
Based and federation pilled
The doctrine incompatibility tracks, since those were the same reasons why the Hutet didn't seem to work out.
Love this channel
At the very heart of founder psyche, there is fear and resentment towards the solids and sadly, for good reasons.
The whole Dominion is built on the premise to prevent any possible harm to come to the Founders through control and domination of everyone and everything.
And having just suffered a genocide attempt by rogue or "rogue" Cardassians and Romulans,
the impulse to build a very heavily armed and armored security blanked must have been very strong in the Link.
This reminds me of the Napoleonic combined arms tactics utilizing cavalry and artillery against infantry. Infantry in line order, especially marching, is a dificult target for artillery, especially further away. If cavalry is used, the infantry forms squares, that can easily repel cavarly. However, using bothe cavalry and artillery, teh cavalry forces the infantry to stop, form squares and then become easy targets for artillery. If infantry formes lines or go to open order, they get cut apart by cavalry.
In my opinion the ship was designed to capture and more importantly hold new territory. Most of the time it would not be part of the fleet and would instead be used as a fall back position for their more fluid fleets to retreat to after conducting raids against the enemy. When the ship did fail it was in situations where the overall war momentum was failing leading to them being outnumbered or being forced into a mass retreat after a strategic overextension. Even then they only lost 25% of the ships deployed while losing a war.
Excellent analysis! You did miss a destroyed battleship, though - at the conclusion of the (on-screen portrayal) of the battle in Sacrifice of Angels, we see a Klingon BoP, careening out of control, collide with a Dominion battleship (which appears to be performing the very role you specified in the Battle of Cardassia - behind the lines to punish breakthroughs). The BoP appears to penetrate the battleship before its reactor detonates, which in turn appears to set off a series of internal explosions resulting in the battleship's dramatic destruction as the Defiant sweeps past (though a second BoP is caught in the blast and lost).
While the battleship has its short comings, I think it's more tactical and strategic employment. Put it this way, having 2 or more tied together in any task force with the battleships placed in pairs. This would help cover some of the blind spots and provide an armored face to the enemy. Another employment would be against hard targets, planets and/or systems with heavy defensive emplacements. For example, a planet with heavy array of orbital defensive platforms and harden planetary to orbital batteries. Employing these as basically face breaking juggernauts with the only objective being to move forward and destroy that direction while face tanking what is being thrown at it. To be the literal frontline for an invasion by clearing a massive landing zone as a beachhead.
If I were to have been in charge, I'd actually forgo them being battleships and convert them into carriers. The Dominion was going to be operating outside of their territory, so a platform that could operate as a logistical support platform and command and control unit would be an absolute must have. Increase the size with maybe removing some of the armor and the weapons or keeping the armor but still removing some of the heavy weapons. Add more warp drives or come up with a more robust design that can keep up with the fleet it is assigned to if possible. And deploy them in small groups at all times. Basically, they are in pairs at the very least at all times without exception. As for how they deploy their squadrons there are number of ways to go about that. One being is having the majority of the fleet warp into the system with the carriers and escorts out to the edge of it at a designated spot. Far enough not to draw attention, but close enough to provide immediate repairs, rearmament, refueling, and resupply. Quicker turn around to keep up the pressure on and allow the Dominion to better set the tempo of the engagement in their favor. Another option would be to deploy at a predetermined location between systems, allowing for fighters to deploy and warp in when forces need additional reinforcements and provide strategic hard point and rallying spot when needed. And to act as boosters for communications back to Dominion command giving them an update to the evolving situation. While turnaround time for any repairs, rearmament, refueling, and resupply might be extended more, it makes it more difficult for enemy forces to locate and threaten the carries and provide some safe haven in deep space when needed. Though can do both options, with the latter being employed first before a system(s) start to crumble and make it slightly safer to bring them closer to that system. Which sort of surprises me as this would be exactly something the Dominion would want to have if they are thinking long term, this type of platform fits this doctrine perfectly and compliments the fluid combat by providing a platform to observe and record the battle from a far to learn weaknesses of their enemy and come up strategies to best exploit them while being able to operate far outside of friendly space for extended periods of time.
A top-of-the-line UFP battle fleet made up of Soverign, Prometheus, and Defiant, and refit Galaxy classes would make short work of even several Dominion battleships.
😉👍!
Why does the Dominion Battleship get poo poo'd on, but the Klingon Neg'var class get a pass? They are both hulking battleships that are slower than the rest of the fleet.
Neg'var is the same speed as the Vor'cha.
The Dominion BB probably gets flack for sharing its model.
The Negh’var is small enough that it can actually almost squeeze its way into Klingon fleet doctrine. Also the Voodieh variant (which existed in much bigger numbers than the negh’var with the siege guns) was extremely well suited to Klingon doctrine
The Neghvar is only like 685m long. It has the same internal volume of the Galaxy Class.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 I believe the Negh'var is fair bit smaller than the Galaxy. The Saucer section of the Galaxy alone should have almost the volume of the Negh'var.
So here is my theory how combat in Star Trek work:
But first, brief history. In 22'th century. Most ships didn't have shield. And even if they did, it was extremely unreliable directional thing. What needed to be activated before enemy shot. So bulk of damage was taken by polarized armor, dispersing energy of relatively weak phase canons. In fact main weapon of that time was nuclear aka spacial missile. What was countered by dedicated point defense. What was actually premiery job of most of cannons.
This style of combat stay in use until mid-23'th century. When addressing issue of Klingon long range photon torpedoes. Phaser was invented! It use concentrated burst of energy what help in guiding weapon. As beam can be tracked during shot increasing accuracy. Also shields at the time become more monolithic. You still needed turn them on, but they cover entire ship. So you are less affected by Klingon ambushes.
During lost era old captains refused to take new "civilian" designed ships. What in fact were large (oversized = big target) and commonly unusually weak. Though Excelsior Mafia miss gradual development of Layered Shields. What did offer several layers of protection. As such despite notorious tendency of losing shields. New ships actually could take a shots. Because while they couldn't take direct hit, they were actually capable of intercepting stray shots. And shields regenerated quite fast. Something what Ambassador class present in fullest. Additionally phase lances were invented and more importantly shots can be wrapped into warp being shot FTL. Yes. Ships don't need to be and commonly aren't even in same star system!
This lead us to New Generation of Starfleet captains. Because layered design of the shields, size actually was advantage. Problem was that some portion of energy always did pass. Dispersed through hull and causing micro-damage. In densely packed warship that is a issue. But in large Explorer, not so much. Because ship has a lot of junk what take energy of fire. So Federation Starships could take more beating over time, even if they did look weak in direct exchange of fire. And for reminder, at least from Galaxy Era. Ships basically did have constantly active Navigational Shield. Something confirmed in one of episodes of TNG, where primitive aliens shot lasers at Galaxy and Picard decide to not even rise shields.
So that is why Trek combat make sense, even if they basic salvo can basically glass planets.
Benjamin "Don't Fuck With The" Sisko destroying a Dominion Battleship by shooting lasers through it with his eyes?
...This is plausible, so I guess I can hear you out...
Facts and Logic... the Dominion's ONE WEAKNESS!
It's also worth mentioning that you don't even have to destroy it. A corrolary to your second point is that if you can force one to respond to an attack or hold a position against a threatened attack you can then out maneuver it to hit a second position because it's strategically slow.
And similarly, it works well FOR the Dominion because atracking any place held by one requires a disproportionate amount of power committed, as does defending anywhere one IS committed
For some reason this ship looks like a decepticon alt mode.
'Mismatch', 'Isolate', 'Force Movement'.
The actual Military has a term of more or less what this is: "Defeat In Detail"
I love these, makes me want another good startrek 😆
Looking forward to the battle of cardassian battlescape
These are amazing! Where do you get the information for these videos? I'd love to read these books or other forms of media for more details about things like this in trek
In short, it's like a Maus or King Tiger when they needed more Panzer III's or IV's.
Why does nobody use military ground vehicles? Everybody just uses infantry.
Budget. Although they do exist in-universe if you count Belana Torres mentioning the existence of "Klingon ground assault vehicles" and then that stupid 4x4 thing Picard was driving around in with Data and Worf towards the beginning of Nemesis.
@@tinman3586 Hey, hey, hey, we don't use the N word around here.
I’m sure ground vehicles might be used in small numbers in larger planetary operations.
@@tinman3586 dude, that's way too harsh on Nemesis.
The problem with ground vehicles is deployment and the pace of combat. During the initial stages of planetary invasions you can't just beam troops down so you gotta deploy fast mobile infantry in shuttles. Not ideal conditions for trying to deploy large ground vehicles, considering any type of dropship or transport is gonna be uber vulnerable to AA fire. Once you've secured a beachhead on a planet and you can bring larger transports to a secure and uncontested landing zone then yeah you can bring in the tanks, but usually by then the battle is just a mopping up operation cuz ground combat is so god damn fast in the trek universe. Planetary invasions are won in literal days. DAYS.
Sisko: o pai tá on
reminds me very much of Germanys focus on tanks like the Tiger and King Tiger during WW2. Tanks that were very powerful, but had too many drawbacks to be useful
Good video it would probably take two sovereigns the negvar and a romulan warbird to destroy 1 dominan battleship
Yeh, it is ironic that Dominion was beat in own game. But solids also show them that they can think in fluid way.
For the resource cost of a battle ship you could probably have 20 Defiant class and 2 Sovereign class. Though I think the Founders biggest mistake was attacking DS9, not what ships they built. Could have spent years reinforcing and building ships. Would have taken the Federation a long time to decide to attack first.
I dont remember there ever was a battle of Cardassia. The Dominion surrendered before the battle took place.
Honestly to be it seems the best way to kill one of these things is to have a fleet fire it's full torpedo alpha strike it.
It was the young guard not the old guard . Wellington fought them later in the battle they refused to surrender. He had to shoot just about all of them with canon s
I'm somewhat torn on the idea that the Dominion designed the battleship in response to the "big guns" of the Alpha Quadrant powers. I mean, on one hand, Odyssey. They took out one of those big guns with fighters. OTOH, I forget how long after that that the Federation adapted shields to work against Dominion weapons, and if that was before the wormhole was mined. If there was sufficient time before the wormhole was mined, I could see it because that really toughens up those big guns, so a new approach is needed.
Flipside, if there wasn't enough time, I could also see it as "welp, we're cut off from our support, and the enemy has gotten their shields to work against us. Come up with something to counter them!" and we end up with a terrible battleship design developed by people that don't really know well how to design ships (perhaps with support from Cardassian ship designers to keep things in the realm of possible). In this case... I'd kinda like to see what the Dominion proper would develop as a battleship/dreadnought design.
Other than that, great video! I agree on the sinking vs scuttling debate - she was lost regardless, does it really matter if one side sped the conclusion up or not?
Great information!!
Something i see in 95% of star trek ship is their warp nacelles are on Pylons. This is a glaring weakness in design as in (yes i know HERESY) in J.J.s 3rd outing it was shown WHY!
That weakness combined with a cloak that you can fire through as shown in ST 6 and 10 aiming soecifically for those pylons would cripple the ship both in escaping and power wise.
So with those wide pylons any commander worth his stripes and a cloak will be striking that weakness first, possibly using them as bait, not like a sniper will leave a wounded soldier out to kill more of them. The defiant was an amazingly intelligent design as the inset nascelles were highly protected.
Starfleet should build there own.
I think one of these battleships was destroyed during the battle to retake DS9. This happened when the Defiant broke through the Dominion lines with the help of the Klingons BoPs.
That was a battlecruiser.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 I think you're right. I watched it again.
i wonder how many more battlecruisers they could of made instead or just basic dominion attack ships who knows that construction yard taken out by worf and martok might not have been destroyed if a dozen more dominion ships were using the polaron cloak detection thingy
3:55 Is that mentioned anywhere in canon or licensed works or are you extrapolating from the fact that the Dominion had neutronium doors on their headquarters on Cardassia?
4:46 Don't they use transponder signals?
What if the Dominion won the war? Like what if the station did explode at civil defence for example. (Might not be the best sencarino but I’m trying to avoid the metamorphic virus problem)
8:10 the Tomalak? 😮
You know looking at the battleships the Dominion may have error as could have built more Attack and Cruisers as early war hammering if they diverted more to those then the big Battleships we could have been in trouble
Wait I thought the MK-2 Huttet didn’t have the large spiral wave disruptors on the front.
so they made a tip of a spear without using the tip of the spear. topical although i can see the idea of where the idea of these being useful would come in handy. if it was earlier in the war or even 2 or 3 years later having a strong enough numbers of these you could strike deep into a heavy fortfidyed position like DS9 earth or even anywhere in klingon space (god knows how well they forfidyed that section of space) but once they lost heavy production fulitcys they lost both the means to get the 4 up and running and the 1 replacement plus the numbers needed to escort the damn things so they were left a big gun with no way to get it into position (so to speak) so it was moved to something it was never meant for defense. so the thing was not flawed it was just placed in a setup it was never meant for.
Amazing sorry late
If i'm not mistaken wasn't 1 destroyed in the ballte in the episode sacrifice of angles? (You can see the defiant strafing one with a bunch of other ships then it explodes)
Battlecruiser.
I own the jem’hadar battle ship on Star Trek Online
Given all the expense and resources put into building them. If they were only going to be used offensively in a limited manner, then dominion would be better off using the dominion battleships as defenders of key dominion worlds backed up by defensive platforms and free up other assets for use on the front lines.
So the Dominion made a boo boo. Maybe by this point the Founder was taking direct charge, along with Weyoun but they weren't that good at military strategy?
The ships are not survivable. They're durable. They endure. An attack by the ships is survivable. You can survive it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Dominion battleship destroyed in Sacrifice of Angels? I'm talking about the ship that the Defiant skimmed by with the bird of prey escort before jumping to warp. It's been a minute since I've watched the episode.
That's actually a Dominion Battlecruiser.
@@merafirewing6591 Think they showed stock footage of that ship blow up 2 other times also.
If you lose a battleship to either direct enemy fire or scuttling, you still lost a battleship. Otherwise, the Japanese won the Battle of Midway 1-0 and the Borg won over Earth in 2367.
I think you should PIS on the Dominion Battleship.
P - Peel off defensive screen.
I - Isolate the battleship.
S - Swarm the battleship.
Why be MIffed when you can go take a PISs?
Are you going to finish up on faction compares and what about doing a new series on the wings of cardassa as a suggestion.
Why'd the thumbnail change? 🤔
👍🏼
They made the best offensive ship. But their tactics and other ships they use don't mesh with it.
Yayy
... or, have the Scimitar sneak up on it.
Well you could use nukes!
Wasnt one Dominion Battleship destroyed during the Sacrifice of Angels episode when Sisko broke thru it looked like several Birds of Prey flying with Sisko were consumed in the explosion of the Dominion Battleship or am I wrong?
Just a battlecruiser like the one in the battle for DS9.
😊
just fly behind it in a cloaked ship and start blasting a tuba on all frequencies'
As always, brilliantly done.
Okay, in terms of meta this is a larger problem that star destroyers, cylon base ships, and a bunch of other franchises have to deal with. Your deep space nine writer isn't going to come to Paramount or whatever with something sensible. No, he's going to bring a big honking purple battleship. So now, poor souls like you have to explain it. Think of all the mental gymnastics Generation Tech needs to spend to justify star destroyers. This effects the perception of lore and the personality of the factions. It was Palpatine's stupidity that forced the empire to build 25000 of those ridiculous ships. But it wasn't Palpatine, now was it. It was the rule of cool.
16:26 ish oh no its the star wars paradox again! fighters are useful for taking out big ships and big ships suck! lol kinda joking not really though