They're still pissed off that the whale probe Space Whale created that's seen in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was a dud. "23rd Century Earth doesn't have any humpback whales......what could go wrong?!"
I was so happy to finally see Jason Alexander in a ST guest star spot. He's a huge trekkie. And even with the plot holes, this episode is Penske material.
I think this episode was moved and was originally intended to be aired before Dark Frontier, as that would explain Chakotay's comment about the Maelon and Devore being behind it. It'd also make it more believeable that seven might've considered joining them and make captain janeway's insistence that Seven wouldn't leave willingly in Dark Frontier more convincing too.
I'm starting to wonder if you're on the right lines. The next episode (I've been writing the script today) has the Malon in again, which makes no sense. Perhaps other writers were unaware of the implications of Dark Frontier (and Timeless for that matter...) or perhaps some scripts got juggled. We know that happened with Bride of Chaotica because of a fire on the bridge set, so it's possible there was more juggling too.
@@Unlimited_Lives you’re welcome. The juiciest part was when Seven slyly disconnected their ability to communicate with each other, rendering them powerless😎😎
@@batgurrl Curious though, isn't it, that these think tank genius' didn't have some ordinary Universal Translator on their ship so they could at least speak to one another in an emergency. Perhaps too arrogant to imagine they could fail..
My main issues with this episode was always the question "How did they learn about Seven in the first place?" Because if they had not known about Seven already, the entire setup does not make sense.
If they've been interacting with a number of Delta Quadrant species, it's possible they picked up the data from them. We can presume they've met the Malon based on the projection Softly Spoken uses, so it could be from them.
IIRC they decided they wanted Seven after the AI member linked with her, not necessarily from the start. Maybe they just target somebody for extortion based on reputation and then decide what they want after they're more familiar with them.
@@GordonMcDonald-d5m If I'm not mistaken, they say in the episode that they explicitly set that up. By telling Janeway she could only bring one other person and no scanning equipment, she's obviously going to bring the one crewmember with built-in scanners. I'm pretty sure the idea that Voyager has a Borg crewmember is probably common knowledge by now among those species they've encountered.
Correction Skull Dog. No one 'important' has died due to Neelix's cooking. I felt this This was another wasted opportunity. Have mentions of the think tank in earlier episodes, not even as an antagonist per se. Sometimes, it is seen as a saviour, sometimes as a necessary evil, sometimes as the enemy. If you wanted to bring them back after this episode, then it could be they wanted payment, or Voyager meets up with them during another adventure. Yes the decoy always bothered me, if they can afford the resources to make that wreckage, then why are they always so obsessed about restricting the use of the replicators due to the energy budget? Heck, Voyager could be spamming shuttle sized remote probes / torpedoes to chart out / blow up everything around their course if they wanted.
Having recently taken a look at the writing/shooting schedule for Voyager, it seems the series was operating on very tight deadlines. Scripts were written as others were being filmed. I can see how that would make sense in saving time, but it scuppers the best chance for an overarching story. Perhaps having a pre-season meeting where one or two writers were told "we'd like a story with a hint of *this* in" would have been a chance for that continuity.
@@Unlimited_Lives That would have been nice. Just not something that was done very much back then. I remember one of B5's 'selling points' was that the entire story had been blocked out. That felt groundbreaking.
Just to note that neutronium is actually Explodium. Outside a neutron star, neutronium reverts to free neutrons, and those have a half-life of around 15 minutes. So you get a collosal explosion that goes on for _several hours._ OK, it's a neutoronium-based _alloy._ That makes _all_ the difference. 🙂
Add to that that Starfleet encountered neutronium before. The planet killer was built from neutronium, they had more than a century to find a way to get around that.
I dont have an issue with the hull material thing, we know that ships can get pretty fucked even without suffering significant outside damage. What gets me is this group of super smart people didnt have a backup plan to talk to eachother nor the pilot the confidence and intelligence to take off when things started going sideways.
I dunno. If you say you're selling a cup that's made of unexplodium, I'm probably going to have questions about what happened to your last one to make that necessary, and how you tested your conclusion.
Facetious answer: cos they've got 2 more seasons left. Your suggestion is a logical one though. If they're able to move about at significant speed (as suggested by 'recently' curing the Vidiian phage) they could have given everybody a lift in exchange for her. We know she's not taken with the idea of Earth, so that would likely have been accepted.
@@Unlimited_LivesThat would make for a great moral dilemma. Seven doesn't want to go to Earth, the crew wants. They want there somewhat quickly, so that exchange sounds like a great deal for everyone. But could they justify selling a person for their own convenience, especially when that person is okay with it.
12:43 when I heard it I thought about it as saying that its impervious to Voyager's weapons rather than all of their ships. moreover, when I saw the bounty hunters shoot at the think tank ship I thought about how it was more of a distraction rather than an attempt to destroy it, thought I guess it could be both.
I considered this, but she uses the phrase "our weapons" in a meeting with the bounty hunters present. Excluding their guns would be against her training as both a diplomat and a tactician.
well in that case, perhaps they thought that the good old tactic of bashing yourself against a door until it breaks will work here. perhaps they hoped that the constant fire would have done something. @@Unlimited_Lives
14:25 I would say that's not *quite* an accurate statement - the Borg believe the people they assimilate are genuinely better off as apart of the Borg, free of suffering and pain and the tyranny of individuality.
One big part of their idea is that the strong and smart can use a billion hands at a million places to invent and design and the weak and dumb can take part of that strength and smartness. Everybody wins.
This is right on time, having lunch before my evening shift 😘👌 That guy will always be George from Seinfeld to me, I can't help it... Great review 💚🌹💚you are appreciated 👍
when isaw this episode..... all i could see was George from seinfeld, lol I liked the then end of it when janeway was like " nope! lot listening to you get of my ship! great job!
SEVEN: The crew of Voyager has accepted me, integrated me into their Collective. KURROS: You're Giving ME The 'It's Not You, It's Me' Routine? I INVENTED 'It's Not You, It's Me'! SEVEN: Alright... it's you! KURROS: You're damn right it's me!
Seinfeld didn't really make it over the Atlantic. We had Noel's House Party as light entertainment instead. If I get the chance, I'll throw in a Mr Blobby reference as compensation.
I really liked the mention of the Vidiians here. Some may say that's a dismissive way to wrap up a major arc but a lot of arcs were wrapped up with "We buggered off and are far away now so we have no way of knowing what happened to them" so it's hardly alone in that way. I think it's effective both as a modicum of closure, but also in demonstrating the bona fides of the Brain Trust. If they had just listed off a bunch of problems that we don't really know the scale of, encountered by a bunch of aliens we don't know the capabilities of, those words wouldn't really mean anything. We're familiar with the Vidiians though. We know that they're a very technologically advanced race with powerful ships, advanced medical technology and very capable doctors. We also know that they've spent generations getting soundly rolled over by the phage. To the point that they're reduced to ghoulish organ-harvesting desperation by the time we encounter them. So to have George Costanza just offhandedly mention that they knocked that problem out in a weekend clearly establishes them as a very powerful and effective organization indeed.
A more interesting way to create division among the Brain Trust might've been to say to Softly Spoken "We know you set the bounty hunters on us. It makes me wonder how many other problems your organization has solved were created by them so that they could sell the solution. Perhaps the problem that you were payment for was such a fabrication." Probably wouldn't have done the job on its own, but it would be an interesting jab at the smug bastard.
"He did get punched in the head a lot in the last episode a lot in the last episode". Helpful to explain every bad decision he makes from now on. Now, if we can only explain Janeway's...
What was the Think Tank planning to do if Seven joined them and then found out about their deception? Seven is a genius, that's why they want her to join, and they're going to be telepathically linked after she joins. She's going to find out the truth. So were they just going to hold her hostage? She won't be very useful to them if she learns the truth and they have to hold her against her will.
Good catch, and one I hadn't considered. Perhaps the telepathic gizmo isn't an absolute, instead allowing a skilled user the option of sealing certain parts. That would be supported by the fact that they were able to probe Seven without her knowing it was their intention.
Before I watch your review, I just want to say that I quite liked this episode on release. I think it was the lead guest actor that I particularly enjoyed. And thanks for the content as usual, I don’t comment anywhere near enough. ❤
It's absolutely fine! I used to not comment on the channels I watch. It was only after I started doing these that I realised how much of an effect some kind words can have on a creator.
If softly spoken was taken as payment as a child, how much of his behavior is his fault? Yes he’s a shady bastard but he was also indoctrinated before he was old enough to be personally responsible for his actions
It's possible that the Stink Tank's neutronium alloy hull could not be damaged by the weapons of one starship, but a sustained barrage from multiple ships would ultimately cause it to splinter. My own thought experiment: Suppose Soft Spoken and the Stink Tank had approached Voyager instead of those bounty bozos and offered to get the ship home in return for Seven's services... 1. Would she have agreed? 2. Could they have done it?
Spikey Skynet reminds me a bit of that robot Kirl confused to de--h in TOS. Would have been an interesting tie in had they been the same model, but I think that robot was built by humans? I don't know TOS all that well in fairness.
My knowledge of TOS is deeply, deeply flawed so I'm not familiar with what you're referencing. Those sorts of easter eggs are something we'd all enjoy though!
@@Unlimited_Lives It was a strange episode where they found this robot who ended up ending some crew members and whiped Uhurah's entire mind, and they never mention that again. Kirk somehow "logics" the robot to self destructing. It was really odd, but I don't remember the episode name.
I will say with regards to the "Deflector dish" being too big to Replicate. We know Canonically that Replicators are just limited Teleporters, as a small bit of kit that can easily be smuggled by humanoids will turn standard Replicators into Site to Site Teleporters. So just put that part into Voyager's industrial replicator maybe with something special to link it to Voyager's Ship Teleporter and wam-bam you can Repli-Teleport a whole butt Deflector Dish.
"OUR weapons cant harm them" said the FEDERATION CREWMAN. There wasn't a word about the hassary which do run very different weapons. Voyager uses phasers. They use pulse lasers or some sort of plasma blasters. Not to mention every material has its limit. Even if 1 ship wont do damage. 40 might. Your car might survive the crash but you still can break your neck. UL said it himself "its shacky". Two of their crew are ""FISH"" (ye that's racist) but what happens if you tap the glass often enough? Tapping against glass can harm them and when a tank (the one of the jellyfish) brakes they got an even greater issue! Replacing crew with 1 per 17y seems... a steep price to pay.
I am surprise that they did not learn lesson number one.... Never mess with Jeanway. The captain trow the ship self to a binary star system , even with low probabilities of survival and generally gives a f about probability
Shame they didn’t ask the think tank to get Doctor Who credits sequence mode working on space credit. I’m sure Star fleet has neat gubbins they’d want.
@@Unlimited_Lives They didn’t know they were shady bastards initially. The first thing I’d have lead with as Janeway was to ask them to also get our QSSD up so we could get home
I've always thought this episode should of come before dark Frontier. As its kind of hard to buy that seven would join these intellectual fuckers.if she said f you to the borg. I do feel voyager also missed a step by not making these guys a recurring antagonist. Not a main threat but kind of like brunt or way une form ds9
@@Unlimited_Lives indeed, I feel we needed more long running threats other than using the borg, over and over. Sure they can be the big bad. But like the darleks of recent who. Especially from 1 11, 12 and 13 they should only be brought out when the writers have a good story for them Sure you get a high light every now and again, survival Instinct earns high marks and I have a soft spot for the borg kids that come later. But unimatix s Zero even buy voyager standards is pointless And end game needed more time in the oven.
The interaction between blue guy and the think tank, I am actually on the side of the think tank. Blue guy comes up with a shiny rock instead of the promised ore which is not what they agreed to, and as they are not taking a person I am assuming they didn't cause the disaster but I could be wrong. If that shiny crystal is so valuable why not trade it for working replicators?
I considered whether they could have been responsible but dismissed it. Blue Guy says his people had been working on it "for decades". Still possible but unlikely. As to the ethics... well, a contract is a contract is a contract (but only between Ferengi). Personally, I'd have renegotiated for 50% of the ore in exchange for another 75% a year later when the mines were reopened. Then you don't make an enemy too.
No wheel of names? Also, when you're done with Voyager I hope you move on to Enterprise. I've grown to really love that show over the years, but it's rife with bits to poke fun at and running jokes with scantly clad decon chamber time.
The Wheel will return in future episodes. In fact, it'll be back in about 3 and a half hours from writing this message. Dunno what's next as patrons will get to vote on it, but I'll be gently suggesting either TOS or Enterprise. I'll have no vote though so it could be any of the Other Four.
Space Whale is what used to be called a cliché, so is too boring to write for. Genre fiction is very vulnerable to this sort of ennui, and the stranded asset becomes a sort of totem, which later writers honor by including the boring element. All strange alien cabals must have a space whale, so we see them in the Xindi arc, also Star Wars brings them in to personify the forces of nature. I say I am dependent on these videos. I seem to need to hear the voice of the videographer for balance in my own life. The absurd begs to be called out past a certain date, the second generation of critical judgement of popular literature. I imagine the writers of the past might take it as unduly harsh, but after a generation some dispassionate acknowledgment of insupportable pretenses must be aired if the work is to find any sympathetic recommendation to future audiences. We all here agree the work has lasting value to future generations, if there are such. But not for the weaker pretensions. Elsewhere, the stench of our current bullshit is so pungent that only in these bygone retrospectives can any truth be spoken. I cannot endure our world without these videos thereby, so please carry on and extend to all the various iterations, so that there can be a model for truth-telling.
To me, this episode was a big letdown. We have a group of the most intelligent beings in the quadrant, their ship can resist any attack because of the ship's superior material and it can also phase in and out but they have only one translator hub, really? And it isn't even protected by firewalls or antivirus protection? It's not as if they haven't met dangerous civilisations or groups before encountering Voyager. This is a good example of superiority complex arrogance.
Seems silly to complain about the ethical dubiousness of Tuvok using the mind-meld on people who were trying to kill (or deliver to execution or slavery) everybody on his ship.
You are more of an overthinker than a pedant. 🤔 Do many people seeks for an explanation of most things we didn't notice back in the day because no internet, one episode per week, no binge watching..
Today's Thought Experiment: What social faux pas had Space Whale committed that excluded him from the vote on Seven?
Castanza (softly spoken) pissed the whale off by peeing in her pool
Space whale was already all in for or against Seven so its opinion doesn’t need consulted again.
They're still pissed off that the whale probe Space Whale created that's seen in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was a dud. "23rd Century Earth doesn't have any humpback whales......what could go wrong?!"
he said he hated Star Trek IV because it was about a group of demigods stealing his own kind into the future
He had already made his decision but was out voted. No one listens to whales anymore 😔
"Looks like the Think Tank has run out of options"
"Oh yeah? Well the Jerk Store called... they've run out of YOU!!"
I was so happy to finally see Jason Alexander in a ST guest star spot. He's a huge trekkie.
And even with the plot holes, this episode is Penske material.
I think this episode was moved and was originally intended to be aired before Dark Frontier, as that would explain Chakotay's comment about the Maelon and Devore being behind it. It'd also make it more believeable that seven might've considered joining them and make captain janeway's insistence that Seven wouldn't leave willingly in Dark Frontier more convincing too.
I'm starting to wonder if you're on the right lines. The next episode (I've been writing the script today) has the Malon in again, which makes no sense. Perhaps other writers were unaware of the implications of Dark Frontier (and Timeless for that matter...) or perhaps some scripts got juggled. We know that happened with Bride of Chaotica because of a fire on the bridge set, so it's possible there was more juggling too.
Wouldn't surprise me if Dark Frontier was meant to be closer to the season's end.
Jason Alexander was one of the series very best guest villains in an excellent episode. Jayneway and Seven did such a great job.
"Spiky Skynet has taken a shiny to sevens implants"
Havent we all!
"No soup for you!"
Excellent Episode and analysis. Jason Alexander was phenomenal in his role. His smugness came right back to bite him in the ass
Cheers! Glad you liked it!
@@Unlimited_Lives you’re welcome. The juiciest part was when Seven slyly disconnected their ability to communicate with each other, rendering them powerless😎😎
@@batgurrl Curious though, isn't it, that these think tank genius' didn't have some ordinary Universal Translator on their ship so they could at least speak to one another in an emergency. Perhaps too arrogant to imagine they could fail..
@@nisselarson3227 excellent point. They were too arrogant or short sighted to think of that
My main issues with this episode was always the question "How did they learn about Seven in the first place?" Because if they had not known about Seven already, the entire setup does not make sense.
If they've been interacting with a number of Delta Quadrant species, it's possible they picked up the data from them. We can presume they've met the Malon based on the projection Softly Spoken uses, so it could be from them.
I think Voyager's reputation precedes it
IIRC they decided they wanted Seven after the AI member linked with her, not necessarily from the start. Maybe they just target somebody for extortion based on reputation and then decide what they want after they're more familiar with them.
@@GordonMcDonald-d5m If I'm not mistaken, they say in the episode that they explicitly set that up. By telling Janeway she could only bring one other person and no scanning equipment, she's obviously going to bring the one crewmember with built-in scanners.
I'm pretty sure the idea that Voyager has a Borg crewmember is probably common knowledge by now among those species they've encountered.
@@cupidstunt22 now THAT'S foreshadowing
Chekov's Puzzle Box
I was hoping it would be nothing and I'd be forced to eat my words. It'd be nice to have a surprise now and again.
Correction Skull Dog. No one 'important' has died due to Neelix's cooking. I felt this This was another wasted opportunity. Have mentions of the think tank in earlier episodes, not even as an antagonist per se. Sometimes, it is seen as a saviour, sometimes as a necessary evil, sometimes as the enemy. If you wanted to bring them back after this episode, then it could be they wanted payment, or Voyager meets up with them during another adventure.
Yes the decoy always bothered me, if they can afford the resources to make that wreckage, then why are they always so obsessed about restricting the use of the replicators due to the energy budget? Heck, Voyager could be spamming shuttle sized remote probes / torpedoes to chart out / blow up everything around their course if they wanted.
Having recently taken a look at the writing/shooting schedule for Voyager, it seems the series was operating on very tight deadlines. Scripts were written as others were being filmed. I can see how that would make sense in saving time, but it scuppers the best chance for an overarching story. Perhaps having a pre-season meeting where one or two writers were told "we'd like a story with a hint of *this* in" would have been a chance for that continuity.
@@Unlimited_Lives That would have been nice. Just not something that was done very much back then. I remember one of B5's 'selling points' was that the entire story had been blocked out. That felt groundbreaking.
4:50 - The Former Plague Lads
The Species Formerly Known as The Plague Lads
The Cured Lads
If we ever run into them again, I'm nicking the Cured Lads.
Just to note that neutronium is actually Explodium. Outside a neutron star, neutronium reverts to free neutrons, and those have a half-life of around 15 minutes. So you get a collosal explosion that goes on for _several hours._
OK, it's a neutoronium-based _alloy._ That makes _all_ the difference. 🙂
Add to that that Starfleet encountered neutronium before. The planet killer was built from neutronium, they had more than a century to find a way to get around that.
I dont have an issue with the hull material thing, we know that ships can get pretty fucked even without suffering significant outside damage.
What gets me is this group of super smart people didnt have a backup plan to talk to eachother nor the pilot the confidence and intelligence to take off when things started going sideways.
Hull is useless anyway. If the shields go down, the ship is toast. Unless it uses plot armor, but that is something you can't buy or manufacture.
If I ever have something to sell, I'm saying it's made of unexplodium. That's a shortcut to confidence right there.
I dunno. If you say you're selling a cup that's made of unexplodium, I'm probably going to have questions about what happened to your last one to make that necessary, and how you tested your conclusion.
There is a reason people don't drink antimatter coffee, no matter how awesome it sounds.
But defensive structures could always made from nokianium
I mean, they do sell juice that's labeled as vegan, so we're actually not too far off. I wonder if there's any Uranium in there...
Why did he not just offer to solve how to get them home ? Then 7 was free to come with them.
Facetious answer: cos they've got 2 more seasons left.
Your suggestion is a logical one though. If they're able to move about at significant speed (as suggested by 'recently' curing the Vidiian phage) they could have given everybody a lift in exchange for her. We know she's not taken with the idea of Earth, so that would likely have been accepted.
@@Unlimited_LivesThat would make for a great moral dilemma. Seven doesn't want to go to Earth, the crew wants. They want there somewhat quickly, so that exchange sounds like a great deal for everyone. But could they justify selling a person for their own convenience, especially when that person is okay with it.
12:43 when I heard it I thought about it as saying that its impervious to Voyager's weapons rather than all of their ships.
moreover, when I saw the bounty hunters shoot at the think tank ship I thought about how it was more of a distraction rather than an attempt to destroy it, thought I guess it could be both.
I considered this, but she uses the phrase "our weapons" in a meeting with the bounty hunters present. Excluding their guns would be against her training as both a diplomat and a tactician.
well in that case, perhaps they thought that the good old tactic of bashing yourself against a door until it breaks will work here.
perhaps they hoped that the constant fire would have done something.
@@Unlimited_Lives
Praise be to the algorithm for pointing me here, great content, love the style. Subbed!
Welcome aboard! Always happy when the Alogrithm (may Its ports be forever open) sends new people.
Ah, one of my least favorite Star Trek clichés: shooting at a cloud of gas (in the vacuum of space) to set it on fire (in the VACUUM of space).
Ah, but it was hit by HELL ENERGY, which is why is ignited.
Depends what the gasses are. Methane and oxygen would burn. Or hydrogen and oxygen.
If SONAR works in space...
@@Mecharnie_Dobbsall you need is a bunch of water and a magnesium torch.
14:25 I would say that's not *quite* an accurate statement - the Borg believe the people they assimilate are genuinely better off as apart of the Borg, free of suffering and pain and the tyranny of individuality.
Fari point, but how much of that is from the Borg themselves as opposed to the spiel given by the Queen to excuse her actions?
@@Unlimited_Lives A very open question given how vaguely the Queen's role is in the collective.
One big part of their idea is that the strong and smart can use a billion hands at a million places to invent and design and the weak and dumb can take part of that strength and smartness. Everybody wins.
This is right on time, having lunch before my evening shift 😘👌
That guy will always be George from Seinfeld to me, I can't help it...
Great review 💚🌹💚you are appreciated 👍
Glad to have helped. Enjoy your shift and your weekend!
@@Unlimited_Lives thanks you do the same😁👍
I enjoyed this episode. At least until you pointed out the huge plot holes I'd never noticed. So... thanks.
Flawed things can still be good. It's interesting enough for the central premise to carry it past that single line.
when isaw this episode.....
all i could see was George from seinfeld, lol
I liked the then end of it when janeway was like " nope! lot listening to you get of my ship!
great job!
Janeway was particularly sassy in this one.
@@Unlimited_Lives yes she was, lol
Been waiting for this episode to get reviewed for so long, and not none single George Costanza joke
SEVEN: The crew of Voyager has accepted me, integrated me into their Collective.
KURROS: You're Giving ME The 'It's Not You, It's Me' Routine? I INVENTED 'It's Not You, It's Me'!
SEVEN: Alright... it's you!
KURROS: You're damn right it's me!
@@GordonMcDonald-d5m "I like the name Seven"
Seinfeld didn't really make it over the Atlantic. We had Noel's House Party as light entertainment instead. If I get the chance, I'll throw in a Mr Blobby reference as compensation.
I really liked the mention of the Vidiians here. Some may say that's a dismissive way to wrap up a major arc but a lot of arcs were wrapped up with "We buggered off and are far away now so we have no way of knowing what happened to them" so it's hardly alone in that way. I think it's effective both as a modicum of closure, but also in demonstrating the bona fides of the Brain Trust. If they had just listed off a bunch of problems that we don't really know the scale of, encountered by a bunch of aliens we don't know the capabilities of, those words wouldn't really mean anything.
We're familiar with the Vidiians though. We know that they're a very technologically advanced race with powerful ships, advanced medical technology and very capable doctors. We also know that they've spent generations getting soundly rolled over by the phage. To the point that they're reduced to ghoulish organ-harvesting desperation by the time we encounter them. So to have George Costanza just offhandedly mention that they knocked that problem out in a weekend clearly establishes them as a very powerful and effective organization indeed.
A more interesting way to create division among the Brain Trust might've been to say to Softly Spoken "We know you set the bounty hunters on us. It makes me wonder how many other problems your organization has solved were created by them so that they could sell the solution. Perhaps the problem that you were payment for was such a fabrication."
Probably wouldn't have done the job on its own, but it would be an interesting jab at the smug bastard.
"He did get punched in the head a lot in the last episode a lot in the last episode". Helpful to explain every bad decision he makes from now on. Now, if we can only explain Janeway's...
What was the Think Tank planning to do if Seven joined them and then found out about their deception? Seven is a genius, that's why they want her to join, and they're going to be telepathically linked after she joins. She's going to find out the truth. So were they just going to hold her hostage? She won't be very useful to them if she learns the truth and they have to hold her against her will.
Good catch, and one I hadn't considered. Perhaps the telepathic gizmo isn't an absolute, instead allowing a skilled user the option of sealing certain parts. That would be supported by the fact that they were able to probe Seven without her knowing it was their intention.
Before I watch your review, I just want to say that I quite liked this episode on release. I think it was the lead guest actor that I particularly enjoyed. And thanks for the content as usual, I don’t comment anywhere near enough. ❤
It's absolutely fine! I used to not comment on the channels I watch. It was only after I started doing these that I realised how much of an effect some kind words can have on a creator.
If softly spoken was taken as payment as a child, how much of his behavior is his fault? Yes he’s a shady bastard but he was also indoctrinated before he was old enough to be personally responsible for his actions
All perfectly true, but also an indicator of how the Think Tank's influence corrupts and further proof that Seven was right.
Arghhhhhhh! Im at work. Gonna have yo wait til tonight.
Now you have something to look forward to. Unless it's terrible. Then I've just made everything worse.
You're welcome/I'm sorry in advance.
It's possible that the Stink Tank's neutronium alloy hull could not be damaged by the weapons of one starship, but a sustained barrage from multiple ships would ultimately cause it to splinter.
My own thought experiment: Suppose Soft Spoken and the Stink Tank had approached Voyager instead of those bounty bozos and offered to get the ship home in return for Seven's services...
1. Would she have agreed?
2. Could they have done it?
I bet Neelix's recipe was wanted so they could provide it as a bioweapon for use in a war somewhere.
I thought softly spoken was played by Mick Hucknall for a while there.....
At the end it's possible he's Simply Dead...
@@Unlimited_Lives 😂
That's who he reminded me of. Perhaps he was holding back the years. As an aside, a relative of mine met him. He's a class A d*ckhead in real life.
I love how you continue to subtly mention Tuvix relatively often.
Never Forgive, Never Forget.
George Costanza in the Star Trek universe is the villain that should have ended it all.
Awesome as always
Cheers!
Spikey Skynet reminds me a bit of that robot Kirl confused to de--h in TOS. Would have been an interesting tie in had they been the same model, but I think that robot was built by humans? I don't know TOS all that well in fairness.
My knowledge of TOS is deeply, deeply flawed so I'm not familiar with what you're referencing. Those sorts of easter eggs are something we'd all enjoy though!
@@Unlimited_Lives It was a strange episode where they found this robot who ended up ending some crew members and whiped Uhurah's entire mind, and they never mention that again. Kirk somehow "logics" the robot to self destructing. It was really odd, but I don't remember the episode name.
@@Unlimited_Lives Kirk very often can talk a computer to death, including a few androids and hologram projections. It's generally logic bomb stuff.
I did really like this episode aside from some of the plot holes. It was just a cool villain group.
Jason Alexander rocking that forehussy. Cranialabia, if you will.
Wait, Tom Paris brought a logic puzzle on the ship? Not Tuvok? Not the doctor? Not Seven? Like, people who are really good with being big brain.
Tuvok and Seven have already had their own. They needed one that Seven could cheat to figure out.
Paris being the one to introduce the latest craze does fit in with his personality, expecially if he was charging a replicator ration per unit.
I will say with regards to the "Deflector dish" being too big to Replicate. We know Canonically that Replicators are just limited Teleporters, as a small bit of kit that can easily be smuggled by humanoids will turn standard Replicators into Site to Site Teleporters. So just put that part into Voyager's industrial replicator maybe with something special to link it to Voyager's Ship Teleporter and wam-bam you can Repli-Teleport a whole butt Deflector Dish.
"OUR weapons cant harm them" said the FEDERATION CREWMAN. There wasn't a word about the hassary which do run very different weapons.
Voyager uses phasers. They use pulse lasers or some sort of plasma blasters. Not to mention every material has its limit. Even if 1 ship wont do damage. 40 might.
Your car might survive the crash but you still can break your neck. UL said it himself "its shacky". Two of their crew are ""FISH"" (ye that's racist) but what happens if you tap the glass often enough? Tapping against glass can harm them and when a tank (the one of the jellyfish) brakes they got an even greater issue! Replacing crew with 1 per 17y seems... a steep price to pay.
I thought it was a moderately interesting episode. I think that the premise is significantly better than the execution
A fair assessment. Machiavellian schemes really need longer than 45 minutes to do them justice.
"the premise is significantly better than the execution" is a solid summary of all of Voyager imo
I am surprise that they did not learn lesson number one.... Never mess with Jeanway. The captain trow the ship self to a binary star system , even with low probabilities of survival and generally gives a f about probability
Or Dark Frontier was following the duplicate Voyager crew.
Shame they didn’t ask the think tank to get Doctor Who credits sequence mode working on space credit. I’m sure Star fleet has neat gubbins they’d want.
Maybe they don't want to piss off anyone big enough to stomp 'em.
@@Unlimited_Lives They didn’t know they were shady bastards initially. The first thing I’d have lead with as Janeway was to ask them to also get our QSSD up so we could get home
They should've asked for Borg transwort thingies instead. That got them much further.
I've always thought this episode should of come before dark Frontier. As its kind of hard to buy that seven would join these intellectual fuckers.if she said f you to the borg.
I do feel voyager also missed a step by not making these guys a recurring antagonist. Not a main threat but kind of like brunt or way une form ds9
Yeah, something similar to the Master for Who. Not constant but pops up now and again to be a dick.
@@Unlimited_Lives indeed, I feel we needed more long running threats other than using the borg, over and over. Sure they can be the big bad. But like the darleks of recent who. Especially from 1 11, 12 and 13 they should only be brought out when the writers have a good story for them
Sure you get a high light every now and again, survival Instinct earns high marks and I have a soft spot for the borg kids that come later. But unimatix s
Zero even buy voyager standards is pointless
And end game needed more time in the oven.
"Spiky Skynet" Love it!!
How many shuttles has Voyager lost?
Enough for them to be officially labelled Careless.
The interaction between blue guy and the think tank, I am actually on the side of the think tank. Blue guy comes up with a shiny rock instead of the promised ore which is not what they agreed to, and as they are not taking a person I am assuming they didn't cause the disaster but I could be wrong. If that shiny crystal is so valuable why not trade it for working replicators?
I considered whether they could have been responsible but dismissed it. Blue Guy says his people had been working on it "for decades". Still possible but unlikely.
As to the ethics... well, a contract is a contract is a contract (but only between Ferengi). Personally, I'd have renegotiated for 50% of the ore in exchange for another 75% a year later when the mines were reopened. Then you don't make an enemy too.
That sounds like a good deal. Postpone part of the payment, but increase the sum. Basically let the aliens pay with interest.
No wheel of names? Also, when you're done with Voyager I hope you move on to Enterprise. I've grown to really love that show over the years, but it's rife with bits to poke fun at and running jokes with scantly clad decon chamber time.
The Wheel will return in future episodes. In fact, it'll be back in about 3 and a half hours from writing this message.
Dunno what's next as patrons will get to vote on it, but I'll be gently suggesting either TOS or Enterprise. I'll have no vote though so it could be any of the Other Four.
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7:33 😐🖖
If I don't get one in every season after it happened, I've failed.
Space Whale is what used to be called a cliché, so is too boring to write for. Genre fiction is very vulnerable to this sort of ennui, and the stranded asset becomes a sort of totem, which later writers honor by including the boring element. All strange alien cabals must have a space whale, so we see them in the Xindi arc, also Star Wars brings them in to personify the forces of nature.
I say I am dependent on these videos. I seem to need to hear the voice of the videographer for balance in my own life. The absurd begs to be called out past a certain date, the second generation of critical judgement of popular literature. I imagine the writers of the past might take it as unduly harsh, but after a generation some dispassionate acknowledgment of insupportable pretenses must be aired if the work is to find any sympathetic recommendation to future audiences. We all here agree the work has lasting value to future generations, if there are such. But not for the weaker pretensions.
Elsewhere, the stench of our current bullshit is so pungent that only in these bygone retrospectives can any truth be spoken. I cannot endure our world without these videos thereby, so please carry on and extend to all the various iterations, so that there can be a model for truth-telling.
Please do DS9 next!!! I love love love your thoughts. You have made me hate VOY so much less. I still hate it, but much less.
Not sure where we're going next, but we'll get to it sooner or later.
@@Unlimited_Lives that is the best news I have heard (read) in a very long time
To me, this episode was a big letdown.
We have a group of the most intelligent beings in the quadrant, their ship can resist any attack because of the ship's superior material and it can also phase in and out but they have only one translator hub, really? And it isn't even protected by firewalls or antivirus protection?
It's not as if they haven't met dangerous civilisations or groups before encountering Voyager.
This is a good example of superiority complex arrogance.
Seems silly to complain about the ethical dubiousness of Tuvok using the mind-meld on people who were trying to kill (or deliver to execution or slavery) everybody on his ship.
You are more of an overthinker than a pedant. 🤔 Do many people seeks for an explanation of most things we didn't notice back in the day because no internet, one episode per week, no binge watching..