Evangelizing the Latter-day Saints, Part 10: Finale
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- A Latter-day Saint who begins to understand the problem of sin in his or her life is ready to hear the true gospel. The Apostle Paul’s testimony in Philippians 3 is a good model to help them see the path forward to freedom in Christ and life eternal.
The reason it's hard to witness to Latter-day Saints, is because people try to do it without a correct understanding of what Latter-day saints really believe.
The prophesied restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ is here! And it's the most beautiful, glorious, magnificent, unified, and light-filled thing on earth. It's wonderful and amazing to find the fruits Christ spoke about actually existing on the earth.
Yes, a correct understaning of LDS doctrine is essential to any productive converstaion. Do you find my explaiantion of LDS doctrine accurate in videos 2-9? Video 2 gives the bottom line, then it is fleshed out in 3-9.
@@TimMartin Not really. In video 2 you say the Book of Mormon teaches that we must die sinless if we want to receive God's grace.
How would you respond to someone that interpreted the bible in a way to claim that you don't love Jesus? After all, Jesus said if ye love me, keep my commandments? Do you keep them all? Perfectly?
Same thing. It's nonsense.
Moroni 10:32-33 is a beautiful passage, not about salvation, but about becoming holy, sanctified, and perfected in Christ. It describes our potential as children of God. It is not listing roadblocks to God's grace, but describing it's power and our need for it! Moroni's words are very consistent with Paul who very emphatically pleaded in Romans 12 "present yourselves acceptable unto God" and "be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed...that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God".
Latter-day saints have become accustomed to others telling us what we supposedly believe. It's the craziest thing. 🤷 But here is what I actually believe. In all my searching (and I'm 52 years old) I have not found a church where God's grace is more universal, powerful, or far reaching than what is taught by the Latter-day Saints.
@@EricHancock Eric I couldnt agree More Brother. The only thing these videos has done is to secure my steadfastness to never return to the Reformed Traditions, and I am Grateful for a Prophet on the Earth Today, and the Plan of Salvation, and the Glorious Light and Majesty of Jesus Christ Our Master. In His Name may he Bless You. Amen.
@@jcal6022 Thank you brother. As the world gets darker, the restored gospel shines ever brighter!
Same here 😉
We read in The Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ in multiple areas that without the Savior’s sacrifice we are doomed basically regardless of the good we have done and are . We can do nothing of ourselves .
The Book of Mormon is not from God. Joseph Smith was a false teacher and you need to get free of the cult.
This is all very well and good for people who have the luxury of 'working on' a Mormon over an extended period, taking them step by step as you have here. But with very few exceptions, I've never met the same Mormon twice. I just had a couple of young guys come to my house as I was watching through this series. I knew I'd never see them again, so I brought up Moroni 10:32, but I also mentioned that as a Christian I believe in one God, not many. I guess it's a hybrid of 'truth vs error' and 'pedagogos', but I don't see the practicality of the full method in 10 parts that you've described for short, one-off encounters.
Its stuff like this why I dont visit my Old Church its not that I cant, but its bad enough that my Friends wife is always trying to "Work On" me. If I was to leave the Church it would be Eastern Orthodox, I could never be an Atheist.
@@jcal6022 I can't figure out what you're talking about. Are you a Mormon?
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Yes, you raise a valid issue. It is difficult and frustrating when we only get a short conversations. That is the context of 99% of my interections with the LDS. But still, this makes a challenge for any approach we will have.
(And yes, J Cal is a Mormon)
@@uncensoredpilgrims In all Honesty im not a "Mormon" I was raised in a Non Denominational Church, and by comparison most Latterday Saints are alot Nicer then me, very passive on such matters I dont quite know what it was maybe it was my Aunt rebuking me saying I dont believe in Jesus, (I dont rest my faith in Mormon, or Joseph Smith) or my wifes Uncle running out of our house Screaming in Anger, or my Wifes Cousins who are pastors kids refusing to talk with her anymore "Because she is a Mormon" so called meanwhile I see the Wilders online, and at first I heard her son Adams story, but after hearing the Mothers story I concluded she either has Dimensia or shes not being honest there is no way her Story is True. Maybe in her Mind, with her Values, and her understanding being one of Status, and superficial perfection but the reality is you dont send a Missionary home because of a Faith Crisis, and the story of her Son never reading John 1:1 is bogus and if true then his parents failed him....I teach Sunday School (Primary) to a Group of 6 year Olds when we go to the Temple there are Bibles to be read they are Standard KJV Text. Its online as well, and I read straight from The Holy Bible in hand to those Kids in Sunday School including half of John Chapter 1. And the Primary Presidency told me that they Love that im reading directly from the Scriptures. In all sincerity if this was all of the devil, and the witness I received was False wouldnt it have led me away from Jesus Christ? It hasnt. But it historically posed a threat to the Reformed Traditions in its infancy, but in reality you have nothing to, Fear the depths of Indoctrination that I experienced pertaining too the Latterday Saints was so intense that its going to require a Truly committed individual to reconcile what they have seen, and Heard that when they have sufficiently broken free its like seeing a Giant tent City with the Tabernacle at the Center with screaming denizens looking not towards the Center but at their neighbors, finding Grievance in one Anothers Traditions, and the Latterday Saints who generally you will get the most traction with are people like a buddy of mine who just doesnt care about living to covenental standards, and considers me to be "A Full Mormon" but hes done it all. Evangelical, Orthodox etc, and now he attends his Ward his Wife is not a Member, her Kids arent Members they've been attending Church awhile now, my neighbors meeting with the Missionaries. "Working on" her was never the intention. Rather having a desire as I had done before I had joined the Church to help Serve a Woman in Need. I dont expect you to believe me, the prejudicial indoctrination regarding the Latterday Saints in your Culture runs Deep, and I Know Jesus Christ is Our Savior.
Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
@@jcal6022 The Mormon church preaches a false gospel and a false Jesus. The "Jesus" of mormonism cannot save you. Put your faith in the real Jesus of the Bible who paid the full price for your sins, and who is the one and only Creator.
Tim Martin and to anyone else who thinks they know how members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe, I personally invite each and every single one you to please attend just one Church service at the closest Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints near you.
Thats True. "Visitors Welcome" says it right on the sign. If they had any idea how much we give of Our Own Free Will, and Choice not for an Eternal Reward, or Performance based Salvation which is Discouraged not encouraged. If they knew about David Alexander and his Channel. DELIGHTING IN LDS TRUTH & EXPOSING ANTI-LDS LIES and his recent baptism 3 weeks ago... maybe they would start to see who we really are. I know there are people out their who are Hungry for the Truth. I was a Ward Missionary for two years and I never once was told what to do I bought a copy of the Preach my Gospel Handbook I found it to be largely redundant instead what I did was testify of what I had Seen and Heard.and bottomline nobody cared, none of those people have gotten Baptized its not easy for some people to make such a Commitment and think in part that is why some people resent us with Hardened Hearts, because they do not understand. Instead they rejoice in Sin, amd.mock any who would seek the Covenant Path yet it is by Grace we are Saved, and I hope that someone out there will receive a Witness that such things as this must be done in Order. That it is only by the Power of Jesus Christ we are Saved.
We don't need to attend to see what Mormons believe. We can read the mormon writings for ourselves. I have the Triple Combination and have read quite a bit from it. I know what Mormons believe, and it is false without question.
So true sister
@@uncensoredpilgrims Do you know what Latterday Saints Believe?
@@jcal6022 I do.
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - Thanks - Our sins are forgiven by the Atonement - it is a gift BUT you must qualify for the gift .
Ive been in the Temple enough times to know thats not what is being taught.
The only qualification is faith in the true Jesus of the Bible, not a false Jesus.
You speak the truth , we must watch out for false Christs . The Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ helps us know the Savior and confirms the truths told in the Bible with its truths . We must have good works as the Bible teaches
@@mollymu1 Do you know that these are two separate Conversations? Salvation is not the Blessing of Exaltation. You dont go to the Temple to be Saved, you are Saved by Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receiving the Gift of The Holy Ghost and Enduring to the End. That is how we are Saved. Not Works. Exaltation is a Blessing not Salvation, and it is a blessing by which we can receive only if we live worthy of it, but yet...God knows Your Heart....and why did he reject Caines blessing and not Abel's?
But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. Genesis 4 "5 And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him."
And we have Ephesians Chapter 2...
Ephesians 2:8-10
"8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
Works is an essential part of being a Faithful Covenant Keeping Latterday Saint but WHY ARE YOU DOING THEM? That is the question we need to seriously ask ourselves. The Temple doesnt teach me that I need to do works in order to receive Salvation any claim to that is Bogus. Even my Patriarchal Blessing which I received two months after makes this extremely clear distinction between SAVING Ordinances, and EXALTING. Ordinances. And at this point I dont think id be here right Now if it wasnt for that Patriarchal Blessing. By following that Counsel from God I have been blessed many times over.
@@mollymu1 You are following one of these false Christs you claim to be watching out for. There is no need for 'another testament'. The Bible is complete and it is sufficient.
We are NOT Mormons. We ARE members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
That's what the word means. Surely you don't expect people to say all that each and every time?
True they like to skip over the full name
@@uncensoredpilgrims I do 😂
@@jcal6022 You'll be out of luck on that one.
Yes, I do
Hey pastor Tim ,Faith here
Faith from PIZ? If so...wow! So wonderful to hear from you! (If another Faith, tell me how I know you)
Tim, I'd also appreciate it if you'd address the following quote from the LDS church (from their website on Moroni 10:32) which seems to go against the thesis you're putting forward in this series, namely, that the LDS church teaches we must be perfect in order to obtain grace:
“We need not be dismayed if our earnest efforts toward perfection now seem so arduous and endless. Perfection is pending. It can come in full only after the Resurrection and only through the Lord. It awaits all who love him and keep his commandments.” -Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, “Perfection Pending,” Ensign, Nov. 1995, 88.
This quote seems to contradict the other things you brought out in the series, as well as itself (since if you always fully 'keep his commandments' is that not perfection?)
I found two articles on LDS.org with this quote. Very interesting! If I don’t address what you are curious about, let me know.
The first article is the original general conference address in 1995 by Russell Nelson, the second is from January 2014. I assume you were referring to the latter, but both are interesting reads! I agree, that for much of the articles, it sounds like the job required in this life is certainly achievable and faith inspiring. There are countless articles and books written like this. The LDS authorities will always sound encouraging and faith building, but eventually they have to give the bottom line. With all the sugar coated “good news” given, the bottom line is easily overlooked.
LDS will focus on these positive aspects, and be completely dismayed when I point out the other parts. I’ll tell them that we must take the good news with the bad news.
Nelson is taking “perfect” to be eternal perfection, not finite perfection (I discussed this in video 3). This is a discrepancy compared to other LDS authorities, but not one I would care to harp on with the LDS. No matter if Moroni 10:32 is speaking of finite or eternal perfection, we have a job to do on earth in order to achieve it.
In Nelson’s original conference talk, he explained that “Eternal perfection is reserved for those who overcome all things and inherit the fulness of the Father in his heavenly mansions.” Though the focus is on eternal perfection, it would still mean Moroni 10:32 requires us to deny ourselves of all ungodliness to get eternal perfection. I would ask the LDS person, “have you overcome all things? I certainly haven’t. If Nelson is right, and this is the standard in the judgment, this means neither of us will make it…right?”
Or in the second article where it quotes Dallin Oaks: this is the exact same conference talk I quote directly in part 5. The article quotes him as saying “And what is ‘all we can do’? It surely includes repentance (see Alma 24:11) and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end.” Right after this, in the original talk, he quotes Moroni 10:32. I’m not saying they are hiding this by not including it. Still, we should use Dallin Oaks’ explanation of what he means by this.
@@TimMartin Thanks, I was actually referring to the 1995 quote where he said perfection is 'pending'.