I worked for 10 years as a mechanic in the 70's on many crank with no starts. This is just amazing technology and you do such a good job of explaining it. It really is exciting.
This is a wonderful example of the diagnostic potential of a shop scope, to see how different but interdependant events correlate to one another in time. How cool is it to conclusively verify a bad timing issue without even having to remove the timing cover! Thanks so much for uploading this, Paul. I always learn so much.
I know next to nothing about cars, I just enjoy watching different vids on TH-cam, I understood a lot of the thing you where teaching even tho the subject was new to me and technical, you are a great teacher and it is a good thing your documenting your skills on TH-cam! Keep it up!
Hey Paul I apologize for my timing lol, if I only had been there four years ago would've been better than my timing lol.. After six years of me studying mechanics myself, your teaching, and your students attention to details has inspired me in taking this up again. Oh and by the way fantastic job on the timing and every adjustments you guys do! You guys should take this up you'll never know when will be your next tune up! I forgot to subscribe but I love your videos.
thanks man. im glad you liked it. it was rewarding to diagnose and fix this thing in one shot. the reason the students weren't involved on this day is it was an in service day and the students are off for three weeks so me and our engines teacher had to get this car done. normally we would wait until next semester to finish but it was our HVAC teachers daughters car.
It is very rewarding when you use a scope. I used the scope yesterday on an alternator that was overcharging just off idle and when you look at the flow of diagnostics you want to pound your head against the wall. None the less when I scoped both lines the pull down signal would flat line at 0 ramping the duty cycle to max. Love moments like these. Not many shops use scopes, not sure how they fix or make any $. Another great job and explanation. Thanks Paul
Nothing can compare to the thrill of having an engine start instantaniously after sorting a major problem.In my case the big-ends disintegrated at high speed on my Jetta II 1.8 DOHC.I removed the engine and gearbox as one(the gearbox turned out to be the incorrect model with the ratios for an 8 valve).Had the block rebuilt and the head rebuilt and acquired a new gearbox from a scrapyard but lost heart and couldn't find the will power to reassemble it.Only after 10 months of procratination did I find the energy to re-assemble the whole shebang(no outside help,only my off the shelf guide book).Turned the key and it started IMMEDIATELY!!!...The pleasure is indescribable!!!..I set the CO content literally by ear(it helps when your main job is being a concert standard musician).Took it to my buddy at his workshop to have everything checked..He was utterly astounded.He had previously mentioned that if I got the thing going under my own steam he'd be well impressed!!...Sock it to tnem baby!!
Great video, awesome instructor, and wonderful work from the best ever professional professor I have ever watched. Man, you are the one who really beats engine performance problems professionally and enthusiastically.
Great video man. There is a TON of information packed into this video. You are very clear and very thorough, without talking too much or including unnecessary stuff. Thanks a lot for this, you just earned another subscriber!
ScannerDanner After a 60K service was done to my car ('95 Mitsubishi GTO/3000GT DOHC), the timing marks were all aligned and the belt was tight. I turned the engine one full revolution, manually through the crank and everything was still aligned. After I started the car and decided to take it for a test drive, I got into problems. What happened was that the car was idling fine and rolling forward in "D" (it's an auto trans), but as soon as I placed my foot on the gas pedal, the car shut off. I never heard any unusual sounds. After I took off the timing belt covers, I noticed that the timing belt felt loose in the area where it goes around the water pump pulley. I thought that the belt needs to be tight, so I started playing with the belt to see how loose it really was. As I was doing that, I felt one of the cam gears spun under the belt. I took the belt off (I was able to do it by hand without much trouble) and tried to rotate the cam gears by hand. The gears were able to be moved a little bit back and forth by hand. That made my friend conclude that I have bent valves, because he thinks that the cam gears should not be able to budge by hand. What do you think is the case? Do I need to do a leak down test to find out if I bent the valves or is there another way to determine that? Please help! Thank you!
Depending on where the cam lobes are will determine if you can mice the cam gear by hand. Don't go by that test. But if that belt slipped while driving due to it being too loose then you could have definitely bent the valves. Put the belt back on and line it all back up, then do a compression test on it.
ScannerDanner Premium I honestly can't see how it would slip since I never pressed the gas pedal, but who knows... I will re-do the timing and see what the compression test shows... Thank you so much for the quick response! I have also heard that the tensioner in this car was designed so that it releases some tension when the car is off, but this just seemed like a lot of slack to me... I mean, I shouldn't be able to pull the belt off the cam gear by hand and make it slip, right?
This is the most helpful video on TH-cam of this subject. I'm replacing my timing tensioners and guides. But found out the chain had skipped a good amount. I was unsure of how to properly set the mechanical timing. Thanks. This was very explanatory.
This was the first video I ever watched of yours 4 years ago that lead me on this path of excellence. This blew my mind when I first saw you could do this with a scope and iv been hooked ever since
Thanks Paul, thats the real life slitz we get into in this business, the little details we’ve all been bitten by no matter how many years or how many grenade pins in your collection . Awesome video
I have been working on and building cars since i was a young kid, professionally since 99, and a grad of U.T.I. My father was a high school auto mechanics instructor for over 35 years, so i have been around cars and different forms of diagnostics and l have never even thought about using the scope to check for an out of time scenario. I will for sure be using this from now on so i can give my customer a definite answer without tearing into the engine.
This is a amazing informative video . I would hope that all mechanics were this intelligent in diagnosing vehicle issues , but I have found not so much . Thanks again very impressive !
Hey there Mr Danner, as a fellow tech, always enjoy your videos. My worse timing belt job was on a Ford Focus SVT. I didnt have the locking tool for the cams, or the the locking pin for crank shaft. There are no marks on the bottom pulley for crank timing. Some how everything moved once the belt came off. I ended up using drill bits in back of the head to lock the cams. That wasnt too bad. But the crank was another story trying to find TDC. Took out #1 plug, inserted a welding rod all the way down to top of piston. Measured the max height of rod by rotating the crank for and aft for maximum hight of the rod. Put it all back together and it started up. HOLY COW! I was so happy as I wept the sweat off my brow. Got to hand it to your students, some of these chain drives can be vague at timing marks. They did good with 20 feet of chain to deal with!
woppini Haha I hear you, that oh sh*t moment. I did a brake job once and my helper stood on the pedal while the pads were out and the caliper was off. After using the wash station, I was able to put it back together and somehow bleed it. I had the new caliper ordered when I got it working right, thanks goodness for no restocking fee suppliers! Stay gold.
Another interesting add-on to the degree calculations for timing offset: The camshaft gear has 24 teeth and the chain was off by 2 teeth. 2/24*360 degrees = 30 degrees So the timing was indeed off by exactly 30 degrees as you estimated earlier from the waveforms. I thought it was cool :)
that is awesome man! what a great compliment, thank you for that. you are correct about this test not being able to catch if the intake cam was off. the ignition timing would have lined up perfectly. but you can actually see vavle timing problems in the pressure waveform itself if you know what your looking for. that is why this pressure transducer testing is so valuable.
An other great one as I was watching this video I keep on thing about my early years in the business way before computer control systems and when we had a no start with spark and fuel (back then all you had to do is look down the carb and pull a plug wire lol) we would always pull the distributor cap off at #1 TDC and rotate the engine backwards and how much play was in the chain as years went on and controls started I bought my first scope and live SUN system and mastered it now I have a few one hand held a old LS2000 and a pc base scope system and tell all the techs learn it use it and there’s nothing you can not fix Anyway you are difficult one of the best and glad to watch your videos and I tell others to watch too Be safe and healthy to you and your family
Paul "Scanner" Danner's tutorials are superb. He is very generous to publish this way. I recently replaced a water pump in my 1999 Chevy Cavalier Z24; the engine has dual overhead cam. The timing chain has one driving gear (crankshaft) and three load gears (water pump, exhaust camshaft, intake camshaft). I put the car together and now it idles poorly (oscillates and almost stalls)but runs seeming well at roadway speeds. I have performed compression test, which passed with flying colors. I replaced IAC and spark plugs, with only slight perceived improvements to the oscilliatory behavior; but these actions did not cure the problem. I replicated Mr. Danner's amperage draw test, while cranking my engine; but the noise grossly exceeded signal, as observed on a very fine oscilloscope and so this test did not work for me. Meanwhile, I found the signal that instigates spark... a 5volt pulse easily observed. This engine has no spark plug wires; rather its ignition system is integrated into a fancy cast aluminum cover and the whole thing comes out in one piece, with the spark plugs left behind... deep in a "V" between the two camshafts. I noticed severe Long Term and Short Term Fuel Trims... NEGATIVE. This is the opposite of what is caused by a vacuum leak in the intake manifold. I now believe my exhaust camshaft is LATE by one (or more) tooth. This is a rare mistake and even more rare than anyone talks about it. Two such persons spoke about their similar situation with a Miata; one drove for 30K miles before stumbling upon the error when he tore his engine down. It's typefied by rough idle. And I'm adding the evidence of hard negative trim, as observed with a basic scan tool on the OBD-II connector. I'm now expecting that my catalytic converter will be running hotter than normal (observable with a laser thermometer). If anyone has any experiments or tests that can verify a "late exhaust camshaft," please post it here. And just maybe, maybe Paul Danner will see this post. I wonder if he's ever had one of these situations roll into his repair shop and training center. BTW, Mr. Danner, I called the most prestigious diagnostic center here in Long Beach, CA, and they don't have a transducer that monitors compression dynamically, for oscilloscope observation. So kudos to you, that you do that. But a LATE exhaust camshaft, or EARLY intake camshaft, won't cause a compression fault, anyway. In my car, there is a sensor ("CMP") on the intake camshaft, which could be observable with an oscilloscope. But no sensor exists, that I have heard of, on the exhaust camshaft. I am seeking ideas... some way of confirming my theory before tearing into mechanical correction mode! It looks like I'm going to have to lift the engine a few inches, pop the timing chain cover, and re-set the chain to various gears. This time I'll slowly crank engine three times by hand, to confirm. I wonder if there's any way to do this from the top of the engine... ? ... by changing the angular position of shaft to impeller gear, on the exhaust camshaft. Yikes that sounds risky... I might also take my car to a smog check ("pre-test") for inexpensive detection of excess hydrocarbons. But the catalytic converter will mess with that reading. So I suppose the thing to do is to run the car to normal temperature, and then observe the temperature of the catalytic converter. Compare to come baseline. (TH-cam should help.) It's also possible that an exhaust valve could be hammered by a piston, if it closes "LATE." Conversely, if intake valve opens "EARLY."
+John Becich I'm going to amend my earlier thread... per comment that a LATE exhaust camshaft or an EARLY intake camshaft would be indetectable by compression test. Firstly, the compression test of which I speak is the conventional "static" test that captures the peak compression; this is not Dan's "dynamic" test that shows how compression changes for every millisecond of an engine cycle. Nevertheless, I am amending to say that neither an EARLY nor a LATE exhaust camshaft would be detectable, by a static compression test. That's because the exhaust stroke is 180 degrees out of phase with the compression stroke, and a static test (which looks only at the compression stroke) will be blind to errors so far removed, in angular terms. Meanwhile, either an EARLY or a LATE intake camshaft would be detectable by a static compression test; because the intake stroke is only 90 degrees removed from what the conventional compression gauge is observing. And any mistake would be noticeable. But with Dan's dynamic test, an error in an exhaust camshaft setting should be observable by a slight secondary blip, 180 degrees apart from the main blip (amplitude). Any comments, welcome.
It's October 2017 and I have long since repaired the error, which indeed was that one of my camshafts was off by one tooth. It was probably the exhaust camshaft but I can't be sure now as my recollection is hazy. The big mistake made, upon first repair, was to not use two M8 bolts to hold the two camshafts in the pinned position, made available by the manufacturer... when the timing chain is restored with chain tensioner coming into position lastly. Car runs fine now. No damage.
Finally some answers! I have a 1996 Astro Van that has a 18 to 23 degree timing difference when the OBDII Reader is connected. It idles okay, but step on the gas and it sputters & backfires. It almost sounds like it has a heavy cam in it. I've adjusted the TDC & Distributor so many times and it either falls before or after the 6 mark on the distributor. I even flipped the distributor gear thinking it was installed incorrectly. Still the same result. The motor was rebuilt before I bought it and was told what was going on. Well, this just proves I have a timing issue. Looks like I know what I'll be doing this weekend. Thanks for sharing this Scanner Danner!🤠
that was the best informative car timing problem diagnosis and fix I ever seen in my life..dude your good at what you do.and your right its a rewarding feeling..you da man
you gave me great "simple" education about my l61 problems. Problem for me was bent valves from mechanical failure form the cam sprocket breaking the keepers for that gear. They had completely sheared off, whether it was because I hadn't torqued it down properly or whether or not It was just Mechanical failure, I'm not sure. At any rate, "ERIC THE CAR GUY" Thank you, you are doing a great service to your community on this channel. We all know, If you are before the Internet, this video series are very good. Thank You
+ScannerDanner would a broken timing chain cause the car to turn over very fast and no start. I think my water pump failed and threw my timing chain off
small easy hack i use is a zip tie to tie the chain around the sprocket so it not to fall when i try to align the other sprocket:D keep the frustration at bay make work alot easy!
You are a god. I was looking to see steps or a friend's car, I was surprised you said 2003 suzuki aerio and that's my car! now i know what the timing chamber looks like!
This was my fist scanner danner video changed my life after this first video I learned a lot from this talented man if your new to this channel I suggest watching all his videos your diagnostic skills will be greatly improved thanks Paul danner...
super and exact specifics on every step on any diag. or solution with excellent camera shots, light, clear speech, complete explanations inside and out.. im a midgrade mechanic and about 10 years under hood but all hands on and lots of trial and errors in the past and as careful as I always try to be rushing to complete a job as simple as head gasket replacement that ive done before on my car and setting the timing on 2 separate occasions on the 3rd round i rushed and i didnt double check the cam lobe mark positions after i realized i erased all my prior pics of the entire job during disassembly i got impatient because i was under the gun to fix on a deadline due to being kicked out of my place. and i guess my timing is wrong because i only hear a smooth turn of crank and cams.. no compression at all.. and now I'm out of time being kicked out of my place tomorrow with no car and I believe that after installing all new valves and resurfacing the head I believe now I have to pull back off the head and replace all the valves being that I believe I bent all the valves but with this video I just watched I have the same type of cam sensor that is like a distributor for the cam and crank sensor and I'm hoping I simply didn't connect something right and maybe there's still a chance I did not damage the valves sorry to ramble about my issues but the point being is even when you think you are good there is always knowledge to be learned from a different perspective or from a different point of view through another mechanic size that is very thorough such as my boss that trained me and this mechanic here that I admire for being so thorough and precise if I could rank this mechanic 1 through 10 I would give him a 50 good job my man and if you have any ideas for me that I should check before I dismantle this car in the next couple hours it would be greatly useful and appreciative peace love and chicken grease and keep the bolts spinning in the correct way
Very clear end professional,IM IMPRESS with the professional way you andle this explanation,i im not a meccanic and nows i undedstand timing on a motor. Thanks Ralph
i was man! almost knocked the tripod over when i saw the alignment of my signals after setting the chains. it was what i expected to see but to get it all live on camera was awesome.
Hi guys nice job at this suzuki aerio 2003 .I have a suzuki aerio 2004 that I change the timing chain , but something went wrong . When I start cranking don't start . But by watching this video I find out that I skip one tooth on one of the sprockets specially the one at the left side. I look at some picture I took after installing covers and your videos. Now I know what I did wrong. THANK YOU ALL !!!
I'm having trouble with the same sprocket (intake camshaft). When I try to align it, when I let go it snaps back to the same spot. Did you experience the same problem?
Nice idea of checking ignition vs compression using the scope. I reckon a lot of guy's would have just pulled the timing cover and hoped it was out! But it proves the point that you should always start with the small stuff!
Brother your good teacher I thought I new enough but I just learn new stuff when I watch your videos. Thanks for taking your time making videos like this 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
As soon as you said vacuum leak I knew you'd left the brake booster disconnected lol. That was fun. Great job on the diagnosis start to finish learned a lot. Thank you for making videos.
I really enjoy your videos, and learning an aspect of auto repair that is new to me. I want to point out that to calculate how many degrees off the timing was you needed to divide rather than multiply. Because the number of micro seconds per degree was slightly greater than 1 (1.18) you were not off dramatically. The actual number I got was like 22 degrees rather than 32, but if the value was higher the error would be magnified.
Excellent method, I always start the engine for a minute if possible to ensure correct timing and then realign, visual inspect. Hate going back into a big job, I triple check always.
Thankyou for serving God in this way. God will use you in ways that you never ever dreamed about. I am so proud of you and your family. You have an awesome gift that can share the Gospel along with your knowledge of the automobile and win lives for Christ. Isn't that all that really matters? What an awesome ministry!!!
Thank you brother. I don't remember sharing my faith in this video, did I? I have in others for sure. It's been a crazy ride, trying to figure out where or how God wants to use this platform I have. I am not ashamed that's for sure.
I was surprised you had that kind of compression when you're over 30* late. It was quite obvious on the wave form that it was that late. Plus most Mitzi engines gotta be at least 20* late before they won't start at all so the condition speaks for itself. But actually I was kinda surprised it didn't even try to start. People can say what they want about Mitzi engines but they run under some really difficult circumstances like, low compression and late timing. Good video gentlemen...very well put together and very educational.
That was an entertaining watch Paul. Proves the emphasis on reading up on the engine you're working on, nobody likes to do things twice......great vid.
This is awesome! I love messing with cars as a hobby and fixing my friends/families cars, and after watching hundreds of your, Eric O's, Ivans, and Keiths videos I am trying to justify buying a Picoscope! Especially since my Autel doesn't have a built in lab scope, but the Pico is so expensive.
Just had one of these today in my shop been a few in a while!. Had my apprentice attempt one ladt week he was very close! You're directing I's great but I recommend the crank lock and the cam lock to get it correct every time first time!
+Lao Han Tun Well, I hope to have you in class on day! If you want more information about Rosedale Tech, send me an email and I'll get you in touch with someone from our admissions department who can answer questions about financial add etc. Thanks!
man this video was perfect! sent the head into the machine shop an showed me what I'm about to run into an how to do it right. thank you so much! very good camera job. keep it up!
Great video, I decided to subscribe to your channel after watching this video, definitely very instructive videos and I love the effort that you put to explaining everything you did so that everybody can understand . I am an Automotive Software Engineer so it's good to see some practical stuff, nowadays the software is so complex and made by so many people that you don't get to see the simple picture anymore ...
+bbogdanmircea thank you so much! I can only imagine what you guys must deal with on a day to day basis. I spend all my time trying to figure out what you guys are doing :-)
Bro this is awesome. im upset i hadnt watched your vids sooner. I Been in this business for 12 years, always nice continuing education, and you explained it well.
Nice video dude, it's always good to watch a fello tech working out a problem. It's easy when you break things down into manageable elements to determine the real problem and eliminate things that are working fine, or maybe have other small problems which build to one big one. Most folk are afraid of technology but as you demonstrated it can be used as a very good tool to show things that were never before available and with a bit more investment and learning a lot more guys could be much better at what they do.
Great question. First would be a regular idle vacuum test (it would be low most likely). And then I would use the same in-cylinder pressure transducer test and really zoom in on the details of it. You can actually see valve opening/closing within the waveform and calculate how many degrees BBDC or BTDC it is occurring. Of course you need a valve spec. sheet for that and it is a difficult test to master but I am working on it. I don't have that procedure in my ebook yet but I will in the future
i like your screen comment about this being a rewarding field. these videos are awesome with the equipment and working knowledge demonstrated, but this field can be a real bear without the tools and techniques. actually these days nearly impossible without continued training.
Just to follow up with blackwell's comments. At 9:29 for your calculations of crankshaft travel in degrees, you mention 1.21° of crank per milisecond. It would be time in milliseconds per degree of crank travel. Also, you were dividing 720°/595ms which should be 595ms/720° which yields milliseconds per degree of crank. From my calculations, 595ms/720° = 0.826ms per degree of crank. 0.826ms per degree * 27ms = 22.3° where the firing was ATDC. As always Paul, your videos are very informative.
A trick I figured out myself and is probably out there somewhere if you put a piece of cardboard on the throttle body you should only get suction on crank but if you get suction and blowing air out of the throttle body then most likely it's a timing problem possibility a bent valve but you can figure it out if you're good if it's like a consistent suck and then blow might be a bent valve I kind of wish I had a better way to explain it hopefully this helped but this is the easiest step before you start doing compression test and that goes the same for the exhaust exhaust should only blow out not having any suction hope this helped
You can also use your hand on the throttle body to feel it but highly not recommended in case it backfires and that will definitely hurt or even burn too
love your videos paul, thanks so much for taking the time to put them up. Scopes and the use of scan tools have been a weak area of mine for some time but thanks to your videos are now making sense. i think i need your ebook for referance.
Nice video, as always! One comment: in the beginning, when you measured the angle between maximum compression and ignition, you should have divided the time between the cursors and the time/degree... Why? Because time * (time/degree) = time squared / degree... While time / (time/degree) = time * (degree/time) = degree. In other words always check the measuring units of an operation and you will notice any slip of the pen immediately. Just an advice!
I found you because of Eric's videos, and I'm glad. There are way too few good channels about fixing and diagnosing engines. Thanks for this. Subbed. It's entertaining to watch too, even if you don't plan on doing the work yourself. At least it is to me.
wow man now i know you're human with that booster line fault, but seriously i have learned more with you than with the tech course i'm taking, wish i was at Rosedale Institute, thank you keep posting.
I believe your right. He's basing cam and crank signals of an optical distributor to the pressures produced inside a cylinder on his pressure transducer to verify a timing issue. The engine would have probably run if only the intake was off a tooth, but I am sure there would have been some sort of drive-ability problems. There is a lot of information hiding, other than when a cylinder is TDC, in the cylinder pressure waveform to allow you to determine if the intake is off.
My friend, this video is very good info very accurate, helped a friend who is starting to fix his car and not an expert, let me add that this car it does have a separate crankshaft sensor, is at the back of the engine block behind the flywheel, you can see the cable and plug connector under the cam sensor, you'll see where the tranny meets the engine a small notch for the cable to go inside the block just standing in front of the car.............just sharing what I know about those suzuki J engines, Cheers my friend.
I also am a new shop owner and have a young man fresh out of high school working for me and i will def tell him to subscribe and check out your videos for a little more training. great job and keep posting these killer vids
I was diagnosing a car this morning and I thought about this video and wanted to know what you think. I knew off bat it was a timing issue because he said he just changed the timing belt. I pulled the codes, it had a map/tps correlation code. I then listened for the rythm in the crank, it sounded good. Compression check on one accesible cylinder to make sure they weren't all low. it was strong. Vacuum test was 5hg goes up in rpm, brake torque to 2000rpm, Crk/Cam difference 1.09. Fuel Trim 2.3,
Good diagnosis skills, this goes to show, you can have all the ingredients, fuel, air, spark, and pretty good compression readings and still get no start, i reckon a vacuum test would point you in the right direction here also. Why are so many gone back to chain driven cams, i mean they are great on ohv engines but on ohc engines i prefer a belt, they may fail if not maintained right ,but they are easier to service, and they dont wear out the sprockets either.
Excelee As Mr Burn says"Excellent". Just a suggestion Paul,with all the advanced equipment that you have,you need a $5 laser pointer for pointing at those timing marks :-o . Love you
Recently, I've been suspecting that my bone stock 350 chevy (1980s model in a C10 truck) has a jumped timing chain. I have reason to suspect this because (although I do not have any fancy scan equipment) I need to put the distributor to 50 or even 60 degrees advance in order for it to idle ok, and my primitive "scan" tool (a vacuum gauge) has a fluttering needle and constantly hangs around 14 inches of mercury. I've tried my hardest to adjust everything else to get the needle to stay still, which includes setting the valves to zero lash, adjusting the carb's air/fuel mixture, and all sorts of other things... But me being the newbie mechanic I am, it never occurred to me until just recently that the timing chain might have jumped (or was never installed correctly in the first place.) It also makes hardly any power. This video is making it more apparent to me that I do in fact have a jumped timing chain, as in a modern car like the one in this video, which has coils instead of an old-fashioned distributor, the spark would occur past TDC if the cam is connected to some kind of sensor (a lot like how the cam is connected to the distributor in my truck) and the timing chain jumped past a tooth, and could potentially be overcome by advancing the timing an obscene amount. Any thoughts?
Hey scanner Dan, I bought a 97 Toyota Camry for my daughter, but when I bought it, it was not running and as a self-proclaimed Dan the fix it man, I knew that I could solve and fix the issue... so I thought, I had went through all the possibilities of it not wanting to stay running, I got it running, but it would stall within a few seconds after being started up, I've gone through replacing the fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, the fuel pump housing, because it had a crack in it and was leaking out, but it still did not want to stay running, I've changed the engine temperature sensor, the idle air control sensor, replace the spark plugs, replace the throttle position sensor, made sure the battery is fully charged and good, replace the fuel injectors the old connectors were busted barely hanging on, so I replace the connectors spicing them in and checked to make good contact, even checked out the ECM, everything was fine in there no burnt markings no leaking capacitors, I am waiting today for the new ignition coils and spark plug wires, I looked visually for any kind of hoses with holes to create a vacuum leak, and still it does not want to stay running I've checked the timing and made sure that it was correct, and what I did notice was there was a few missing teeth on the crank timing gear, that I suppose would be very important for the crankshaft position sensor to read, now I know that a gap with no teeth in there but these teeth that are missing look like they were broken and it just dawned on me that, that could be the very reason why my car does not want to stay running, would that be an issue why it does not want to stay running, does it make any sense, your help would be appreciated, thank you.
It actually does not. Engines that are cranked over and over again, end up with collapsed lifters. Holding the RPM at around 2000 or so will pump them back up again. You can actually here that in the video and I think I mentioned it or left a note about the collapsed lifters in the video, but maybe I forgot. Thank you!
there are. i still work in the field too. go to iATN and use their shop finder. anyone listed there you will have a much better chance of getting a good diagnostic guy looking at your car
ScannerDanner my car the timing belt looks extremely bad missing a lot teeth in some would this causes no start just grinding noise no spark at all it sounds like there is no compression in the engine
your engine is shot , you bent the valves, its locked up, dude a timing belt needs to be changed, every 80, 000 miles, people should not go beyond it, belts co st under 40 bucks plus what ever the labor , any where between 150 to 300, if you have a non interference its no sweat, no damage but the other deal is a new engine, a rebuild or some piece of shit from the junk yard(why do you think its called a junk yard?)
hey bro. you can do the same thing with a running engine. keep in mind that you can still have ignition timing be on and cam timing be off, in which case you can use the compression wave form to identify valve timing problems. this is a complicated procedure and I am not 100 percent yet on using it
no problem, thank you! hopefully I provided enough info. in the video on proper chain alignment. My main focus was on the troubleshooting side of the job
Yes you definitely provided enough info. I wish I would have seen this before I put the engine in, and realized it wasn't running correctly. I was very excited when I opened the engine up to see that it was freshly rebuilt! I just assumed it was done correctly Haha
You my friend are a breath of fresh air against all the other mechanics that shudder at the sight of electronics and down know their arse from elbow looking at a scope. Well done. Enjoyed your systematic approach, and you timing analysis of the waveforms done to the degree calculations of timing offset. I Also thought picking up the amperage off the crank to capture the compression humps a brilliant move. You'll need all the spark plugs in for that obviously. Are the probes widely available?
ScannerDanner the crankshaft position sensor you have to take out the engine or the transmision near the flywheel is that ckps, that part you show is the camshaft position sensor/ignition distribitotor
thats an amazing video from an amazing instructor it saved me actually , i will be more thankful if you guided me to any online course that focusing on Pressure Transducers .. thanks danner
This is my favorite video. A lot can be learned from this single video!! One question Paul, have you ever seen a no compression problem due to gross cam timing problems. Ive never checked this condition as far as compression goes. Thank you Paul for your great videos.
I worked for 10 years as a mechanic in the 70's on many crank with no starts. This is just amazing technology and you do such a good job of explaining it. It really is exciting.
This is a wonderful example of the diagnostic potential of a shop scope, to see how different but interdependant events correlate to one another in time. How cool is it to conclusively verify a bad timing issue without even having to remove the timing cover! Thanks so much for uploading this, Paul. I always learn so much.
This is the stuff I really like when working on cars! I hated it when I worked at a dealership and all they wanted us to be were parts replacers.
I know next to nothing about cars, I just enjoy watching different vids on TH-cam, I understood a lot of the thing you where teaching even tho the subject was new to me and technical, you are a great teacher and it is a good thing your documenting your skills on TH-cam! Keep it up!
thanks Matthew, keep watching, I have almost 500 videos now between my two channels.
Hey Paul I apologize for my timing lol, if I only had been there four years ago would've been better than my timing lol.. After six years of me studying mechanics myself, your teaching, and your students attention to details has inspired me in taking this up again. Oh and by the way fantastic job on the timing and every adjustments you guys do! You guys should take this up you'll never know when will be your next tune up! I forgot to subscribe but I love your videos.
paul knowing and understanding scanners and scope is a beautiful thing diagnosis of the 21st century.great job paul.
thanks man. im glad you liked it. it was rewarding to diagnose and fix this thing in one shot. the reason the students weren't involved on this day is it was an in service day and the students are off for three weeks so me and our engines teacher had to get this car done. normally we would wait until next semester to finish but it was our HVAC teachers daughters car.
It is very rewarding when you use a scope. I used the scope yesterday on an alternator that was overcharging just off idle and when you look at the flow of diagnostics you want to pound your head against the wall. None the less when I scoped both lines the pull down signal would flat line at 0 ramping the duty cycle to max. Love moments like these. Not many shops use scopes, not sure how they fix or make any $. Another great job and explanation. Thanks Paul
Nothing can compare to the thrill of having an engine start instantaniously after sorting a major problem.In my case the big-ends disintegrated at high speed on my Jetta II 1.8 DOHC.I removed the engine and gearbox as one(the gearbox turned out to be the incorrect model with the ratios for an 8 valve).Had the block rebuilt and the head rebuilt and acquired a new gearbox from a scrapyard but lost heart and couldn't find the will power to reassemble it.Only after 10 months of procratination did I find the energy to re-assemble the whole shebang(no outside help,only my off the shelf guide book).Turned the key and it started IMMEDIATELY!!!...The pleasure is indescribable!!!..I set the CO content literally by ear(it helps when your main job is being a concert standard musician).Took it to my buddy at his workshop to have everything checked..He was utterly astounded.He had previously mentioned that if I got the thing going under my own steam he'd be well impressed!!...Sock it to tnem baby!!
Great video, awesome instructor, and wonderful work from the best ever professional professor I have ever watched. Man, you are the one who really beats engine performance problems professionally and enthusiastically.
Great video man. There is a TON of information packed into this video. You are very clear and very thorough, without talking too much or including unnecessary stuff. Thanks a lot for this, you just earned another subscriber!
Thanks man. Really appreciate the support!
ScannerDanner
After a 60K service was done to my car ('95 Mitsubishi GTO/3000GT DOHC), the timing marks were all aligned and the belt was tight. I turned the engine one full revolution, manually through the crank and everything was still aligned. After I started the car and decided to take it for a test drive, I got into problems. What happened was that the car was idling fine and rolling forward in "D" (it's an auto trans), but as soon as I placed my foot on the gas pedal, the car shut off. I never heard any unusual sounds. After I took off the timing belt covers, I noticed that the timing belt felt loose in the area where it goes around the water pump pulley. I thought that the belt needs to be tight, so I started playing with the belt to see how loose it really was. As I was doing that, I felt one of the cam gears spun under the belt. I took the belt off (I was able to do it by hand without much trouble) and tried to rotate the cam gears by hand. The gears were able to be moved a little bit back and forth by hand. That made my friend conclude that I have bent valves, because he thinks that the cam gears should not be able to budge by hand. What do you think is the case? Do I need to do a leak down test to find out if I bent the valves or is there another way to determine that? Please help! Thank you!
Depending on where the cam lobes are will determine if you can mice the cam gear by hand. Don't go by that test. But if that belt slipped while driving due to it being too loose then you could have definitely bent the valves. Put the belt back on and line it all back up, then do a compression test on it.
ScannerDanner Premium I honestly can't see how it would slip since I never pressed the gas pedal, but who knows... I will re-do the timing and see what the compression test shows... Thank you so much for the quick response! I have also heard that the tensioner in this car was designed so that it releases some tension when the car is off, but this just seemed like a lot of slack to me... I mean, I shouldn't be able to pull the belt off the cam gear by hand and make it slip, right?
nicholi2789 a
This is the most helpful video on TH-cam of this subject. I'm replacing my timing tensioners and guides. But found out the chain had skipped a good amount. I was unsure of how to properly set the mechanical timing. Thanks. This was very explanatory.
This was the first video I ever watched of yours 4 years ago that lead me on this path of excellence.
This blew my mind when I first saw you could do this with a scope and iv been hooked ever since
Usually no-starts are ignition or fuel. Great job of showing how to go beyond those and diagnose a timing issue as the cause.
Thanks Paul, thats the real life slitz we get into in this business, the little details we’ve all been bitten by no matter how many years or how many grenade pins in your collection . Awesome video
I have been working on and building cars since i was a young kid, professionally since 99, and a grad of U.T.I. My father was a high school auto mechanics instructor for over 35 years, so i have been around cars and different forms of diagnostics and l have never even thought about using the scope to check for an out of time scenario. I will for sure be using this from now on so i can give my customer a definite answer without tearing into the engine.
This is a amazing informative video . I would hope that all mechanics were this intelligent in diagnosing vehicle issues , but I have found not so much . Thanks again very impressive !
thanks man! Always good to hear from a seasoned veteran. it just means so much more
Really love what we can do with a two channel scope and an amp probe. Knowledge is power, and Paul makes us powerful. Without pulling valve cover!!
thanks Bill!
Hey there Mr Danner, as a fellow tech, always enjoy your videos. My worse timing belt job was on a Ford Focus SVT. I didnt have the locking tool for the cams, or the the locking pin for crank shaft. There are no marks on the bottom pulley for crank timing. Some how everything moved once the belt came off. I ended up using drill bits in back of the head to lock the cams. That wasnt too bad. But the crank was another story trying to find TDC. Took out #1 plug, inserted a welding rod all the way down to top of piston. Measured the max height of rod by rotating the crank for and aft for maximum hight of the rod. Put it all back together and it started up. HOLY COW! I was so happy as I wept the sweat off my brow. Got to hand it to your students, some of these chain drives can be vague at timing marks. They did good with 20 feet of chain to deal with!
woppini Haha I hear you, that oh sh*t moment. I did a brake job once and my helper stood on the pedal while the pads were out and the caliper was off. After using the wash station, I was able to put it back together and somehow bleed it. I had the new caliper ordered when I got it working right, thanks goodness for no restocking fee suppliers!
Stay gold.
Another interesting add-on to the degree calculations for timing offset:
The camshaft gear has 24 teeth and the chain was off by 2 teeth.
2/24*360 degrees = 30 degrees
So the timing was indeed off by exactly 30 degrees as you estimated earlier from the waveforms. I thought it was cool :)
that is awesome man! what a great compliment, thank you for that. you are correct about this test not being able to catch if the intake cam was off. the ignition timing would have lined up perfectly.
but you can actually see vavle timing problems in the pressure waveform itself if you know what your looking for. that is why this pressure transducer testing is so valuable.
An other great one as I was watching this video I keep on thing about my early years in the business way before computer control systems and when we had a no start with spark and fuel (back then all you had to do is look down the carb and pull a plug wire lol) we would always pull the distributor cap off at #1 TDC and rotate the engine backwards and how much play was in the chain as years went on and controls started I bought my first scope and live SUN system and mastered it now I have a few one hand held a old LS2000 and a pc base scope system and tell all the techs learn it use it and there’s nothing you can not fix
Anyway you are difficult one of the best and glad to watch your videos and I tell others to watch too
Be safe and healthy to you and your family
Paul "Scanner" Danner's tutorials are superb. He is very generous to publish this way.
I recently replaced a water pump in my 1999 Chevy Cavalier Z24; the engine has dual overhead cam. The timing chain has one driving gear (crankshaft) and three load gears (water pump, exhaust camshaft, intake camshaft). I put the car together and now it idles poorly (oscillates and almost stalls)but runs seeming well at roadway speeds. I have performed compression test, which passed with flying colors. I replaced IAC and spark plugs, with only slight perceived improvements to the oscilliatory behavior; but these actions did not cure the problem.
I replicated Mr. Danner's amperage draw test, while cranking my engine; but the noise grossly exceeded signal, as observed on a very fine oscilloscope and so this test did not work for me. Meanwhile, I found the signal that instigates spark... a 5volt pulse easily observed.
This engine has no spark plug wires; rather its ignition system is integrated into a fancy cast aluminum cover and the whole thing comes out in one piece, with the spark plugs left behind... deep in a "V" between the two camshafts.
I noticed severe Long Term and Short Term Fuel Trims... NEGATIVE. This is the opposite of what is caused by a vacuum leak in the intake manifold. I now believe my exhaust camshaft is LATE by one (or more) tooth. This is a rare mistake and even more rare than anyone talks about it. Two such persons spoke about their similar situation with a Miata; one drove for 30K miles before stumbling upon the error when he tore his engine down. It's typefied by rough idle. And I'm adding the evidence of hard negative trim, as observed with a basic scan tool on the OBD-II connector. I'm now expecting that my catalytic converter will be running hotter than normal (observable with a laser thermometer).
If anyone has any experiments or tests that can verify a "late exhaust camshaft," please post it here. And just maybe, maybe Paul Danner will see this post. I wonder if he's ever had one of these situations roll into his repair shop and training center.
BTW, Mr. Danner, I called the most prestigious diagnostic center here in Long Beach, CA, and they don't have a transducer that monitors compression dynamically, for oscilloscope observation. So kudos to you, that you do that.
But a LATE exhaust camshaft, or EARLY intake camshaft, won't cause a compression fault, anyway.
In my car, there is a sensor ("CMP") on the intake camshaft, which could be observable with an oscilloscope. But no sensor exists, that I have heard of, on the exhaust camshaft. I am seeking ideas... some way of confirming my theory before tearing into mechanical correction mode!
It looks like I'm going to have to lift the engine a few inches, pop the timing chain cover, and re-set the chain to various gears. This time I'll slowly crank engine three times by hand, to confirm. I wonder if there's any way to do this from the top of the engine... ? ... by changing the angular position of shaft to impeller gear, on the exhaust camshaft. Yikes that sounds risky...
I might also take my car to a smog check ("pre-test") for inexpensive detection of excess hydrocarbons. But the catalytic converter will mess with that reading. So I suppose the thing to do is to run the car to normal temperature, and then observe the temperature of the catalytic converter. Compare to come baseline. (TH-cam should help.)
It's also possible that an exhaust valve could be hammered by a piston, if it closes "LATE." Conversely, if intake valve opens "EARLY."
+John Becich I'm going to amend my earlier thread... per comment that a LATE exhaust camshaft or an EARLY intake camshaft would be indetectable by compression test.
Firstly, the compression test of which I speak is the conventional "static" test that captures the peak compression; this is not Dan's "dynamic" test that shows how compression changes for every millisecond of an engine cycle.
Nevertheless, I am amending to say that neither an EARLY nor a LATE exhaust camshaft would be detectable, by a static compression test. That's because the exhaust stroke is 180 degrees out of phase with the compression stroke, and a static test (which looks only at the compression stroke) will be blind to errors so far removed, in angular terms.
Meanwhile, either an EARLY or a LATE intake camshaft would be detectable by a static compression test; because the intake stroke is only 90 degrees removed from what the conventional compression gauge is observing. And any mistake would be noticeable.
But with Dan's dynamic test, an error in an exhaust camshaft setting should be observable by a slight secondary blip, 180 degrees apart from the main blip (amplitude).
Any comments, welcome.
John Becich
It's October 2017 and I have long since repaired the error, which indeed was that one of my camshafts was off by one tooth. It was probably the exhaust camshaft but I can't be sure now as my recollection is hazy.
The big mistake made, upon first repair, was to not use two M8 bolts to hold the two camshafts in the pinned position, made available by the manufacturer... when the timing chain is restored with chain tensioner coming into position lastly.
Car runs fine now. No damage.
Cool story, grandpa.
Finally some answers! I have a 1996 Astro Van that has a 18 to 23 degree timing difference when the OBDII Reader is connected. It idles okay, but step on the gas and it sputters & backfires. It almost sounds like it has a heavy cam in it.
I've adjusted the TDC & Distributor so many times and it either falls before or after the 6 mark on the distributor. I even flipped the distributor gear thinking it was installed incorrectly. Still the same result.
The motor was rebuilt before I bought it and was told what was going on. Well, this just proves I have a timing issue. Looks like I know what I'll be doing this weekend. Thanks for sharing this Scanner Danner!🤠
that was the best informative car timing problem diagnosis and fix I ever seen in my life..dude your good at what you do.and your right its a rewarding feeling..you da man
you gave me great "simple" education about my l61 problems. Problem for me was bent valves from mechanical failure form the cam sprocket breaking the keepers for that gear. They had completely sheared off, whether it was because I hadn't torqued it down properly or whether or not It was just Mechanical failure, I'm not sure. At any rate, "ERIC THE CAR GUY" Thank you, you are doing a great service to your community on this channel. We all know, If you are before the Internet, this video series are very good. Thank You
+josh cooper thanks josh!
+ScannerDanner would a broken timing chain cause the car to turn over very fast and no start. I think my water pump failed and threw my timing chain off
small easy hack i use is a zip tie to tie the chain around the sprocket so it not to fall when i try to align the other sprocket:D keep the frustration at bay make work alot easy!
You are a god. I was looking to see steps or a friend's car, I was surprised you said 2003 suzuki aerio and that's my car! now i know what the timing chamber looks like!
This was my fist scanner danner video changed my life after this first video I learned a lot from this talented man if your new to this channel I suggest watching all his videos your diagnostic skills will be greatly improved thanks Paul danner...
super and exact specifics on every step on any diag. or solution with excellent camera shots, light, clear speech, complete explanations inside and out.. im a midgrade mechanic and about 10 years under hood but all hands on and lots of trial and errors in the past and as careful as I always try to be rushing to complete a job as simple as head gasket replacement that ive done before on my car and setting the timing on 2 separate occasions on the 3rd round i rushed and i didnt double check the cam lobe mark positions after i realized i erased all my prior pics of the entire job during disassembly i got impatient because i was under the gun to fix on a deadline due to being kicked out of my place. and i guess my timing is wrong because i only hear a smooth turn of crank and cams.. no compression at all.. and now I'm out of time being kicked out of my place tomorrow with no car and I believe that after installing all new valves and resurfacing the head I believe now I have to pull back off the head and replace all the valves being that I believe I bent all the valves but with this video I just watched I have the same type of cam sensor that is like a distributor for the cam and crank sensor and I'm hoping I simply didn't connect something right and maybe there's still a chance I did not damage the valves sorry to ramble about my issues but the point being is even when you think you are good there is always knowledge to be learned from a different perspective or from a different point of view through another mechanic size that is very thorough such as my boss that trained me and this mechanic here that I admire for being so thorough and precise if I could rank this mechanic 1 through 10 I would give him a 50 good job my man and if you have any ideas for me that I should check before I dismantle this car in the next couple hours it would be greatly useful and appreciative peace love and chicken grease and keep the bolts spinning in the correct way
Very clear end professional,IM IMPRESS with the professional way you andle this explanation,i im not a meccanic and nows i undedstand timing on a motor.
Thanks
Ralph
i was man! almost knocked the tripod over when i saw the alignment of my signals after setting the chains. it was what i expected to see but to get it all live on camera was awesome.
Hi guys nice job at this suzuki aerio 2003 .I have a suzuki aerio 2004 that I change the timing chain , but something went wrong . When I start cranking don't start . But by watching this video I find out that I skip one tooth on one of the sprockets specially the one at the left side. I look at some picture I took after installing covers and your videos. Now I know what I did wrong. THANK YOU ALL !!!
I'm having trouble with the same sprocket (intake camshaft). When I try to align it, when I let go it snaps back to the same spot. Did you experience the same problem?
Nice idea of checking ignition vs compression using the scope. I reckon a lot of guy's would have just pulled the timing cover and hoped it was out! But it proves the point that you should always start with the small stuff!
Brother your good teacher I thought I new enough but I just learn new stuff when I watch your videos. Thanks for taking your time making videos like this 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
As soon as you said vacuum leak I knew you'd left the brake booster disconnected lol. That was fun. Great job on the diagnosis start to finish learned a lot. Thank you for making videos.
I really enjoy your videos, and learning an aspect of auto repair that is new to me. I want to point out that to calculate how many degrees off the timing was you needed to divide rather than multiply. Because the number of micro seconds per degree was slightly greater than 1 (1.18) you were not off dramatically. The actual number I got was like 22 degrees rather than 32, but if the value was higher the error would be magnified.
Excellent method, I always start the engine for a minute if possible to ensure correct timing and then realign, visual inspect.
Hate going back into a big job, I triple check always.
I can tell in your voice you were excited when you scoped the after. I would be too. Finding and verifying a repair gets me excited too.
Thankyou for serving God in this way. God will use you in ways that you never ever dreamed about. I am so proud of you and your family. You have an awesome gift that can share the Gospel along with your knowledge of the automobile and win lives for Christ. Isn't that all that really matters? What an awesome ministry!!!
Thank you brother. I don't remember sharing my faith in this video, did I? I have in others for sure. It's been a crazy ride, trying to figure out where or how God wants to use this platform I have. I am not ashamed that's for sure.
I was surprised you had that kind of compression when you're over 30* late. It was quite obvious on the wave form that it was that late. Plus most Mitzi engines gotta be at least 20* late before they won't start at all so the condition speaks for itself. But actually I was kinda surprised it didn't even try to start. People can say what they want about Mitzi engines but they run under some really difficult circumstances like, low compression and late timing. Good video gentlemen...very well put together and very educational.
That was an entertaining watch Paul. Proves the emphasis on reading up on the engine you're working on, nobody likes to do things twice......great vid.
Woohooo! Love that sound 😃
Always a relief when you get it running again.
This is awesome! I love messing with cars as a hobby and fixing my friends/families cars, and after watching hundreds of your, Eric O's, Ivans, and Keiths videos I am trying to justify buying a Picoscope! Especially since my Autel doesn't have a built in lab scope, but the Pico is so expensive.
you hit the nail on the head on this comment. that is exactly what i wanted to show in the video. thank you so much
I have learnt a great deal from your book and videos. Getting so much more use from my Pico now. Keep up the great work. Thanks.
Very nice job in showing scope wave form before and after timing chain adjustment.
Just had one of these today in my shop been a few in a while!.
Had my apprentice attempt one ladt week he was very close! You're directing I's great but I recommend the crank lock and the cam lock to get it correct every time first time!
Thank you scannerDanner......you are such a good teacher. Wish to attend your class one day.
+Lao Han Tun Well, I hope to have you in class on day! If you want more information about Rosedale Tech, send me an email and I'll get you in touch with someone from our admissions department who can answer questions about financial add etc.
Thanks!
man this video was perfect! sent the head into the machine shop an showed me what I'm about to run into an how to do it right. thank you so much! very good camera job. keep it up!
Great video, I decided to subscribe to your channel after watching this video, definitely very instructive videos and I love the effort that you put to explaining everything you did so that everybody can understand . I am an Automotive Software Engineer so it's good to see some practical stuff, nowadays the software is so complex and made by so many people that you don't get to see the simple picture anymore ...
+bbogdanmircea thank you so much! I can only imagine what you guys must deal with on a day to day basis. I spend all my time trying to figure out what you guys are doing :-)
Bro this is awesome. im upset i hadnt watched your vids sooner. I Been in this business for 12 years, always nice continuing education, and you explained it well.
Thank you so much!
Well done, camera shots were well worth the time to understand the timing points. Thanks !!
I'm reading the Book again to refresh my memory. thanks my friend from Peru
Nice video dude, it's always good to watch a fello tech working out a problem. It's easy when you break things down into manageable elements to determine the real problem and eliminate things that are working fine, or maybe have other small problems which build to one big one. Most folk are afraid of technology but as you demonstrated it can be used as a very good tool to show things that were never before available and with a bit more investment and learning a lot more guys could be much better at what they do.
For sure! Thank Richard
Great question. First would be a regular idle vacuum test (it would be low most likely). And then I would use the same in-cylinder pressure transducer test and really zoom in on the details of it. You can actually see valve opening/closing within the waveform and calculate how many degrees BBDC or BTDC it is occurring. Of course you need a valve spec. sheet for that and it is a difficult test to master but I am working on it. I don't have that procedure in my ebook yet but I will in the future
Super cool stuff - total new respect for mechanics (at least the ones that do this level of work)
thank you very much and what is cool is the testing methods used in this video could even be used on those 70s cars to verify timing
Fantastically detailsed video Paul from start to finish! I really need to practise more with my pico! Great stuff.
Excellent lecturing SD, much appreciate the effort, Thank u very much.
Hi there.
Im an autotechnician in NY,and this is a high tech priceless video you made! I got your book by the way...Thank for doing a great job!!
i like your screen comment about this being a rewarding field.
these videos are awesome with the equipment and working knowledge demonstrated, but this field can be a real bear without the tools and techniques. actually these days nearly impossible without continued training.
Just to follow up with blackwell's comments. At 9:29 for your calculations of crankshaft travel in degrees, you mention 1.21° of crank per milisecond. It would be time in milliseconds per degree of crank travel. Also, you were dividing 720°/595ms which should be 595ms/720° which yields milliseconds per degree of crank. From my calculations, 595ms/720° = 0.826ms per degree of crank. 0.826ms per degree * 27ms = 22.3° where the firing was ATDC. As always Paul, your videos are very informative.
A trick I figured out myself and is probably out there somewhere if you put a piece of cardboard on the throttle body you should only get suction on crank but if you get suction and blowing air out of the throttle body then most likely it's a timing problem possibility a bent valve but you can figure it out if you're good if it's like a consistent suck and then blow might be a bent valve I kind of wish I had a better way to explain it hopefully this helped but this is the easiest step before you start doing compression test and that goes the same for the exhaust exhaust should only blow out not having any suction hope this helped
You can also use your hand on the throttle body to feel it but highly not recommended in case it backfires and that will definitely hurt or even burn too
love your videos paul, thanks so much for taking the time to put them up. Scopes and the use of scan tools have been a weak area of mine for some time but thanks to your videos are now making sense. i think i need your ebook for referance.
Nice video, as always!
One comment: in the beginning, when you measured the angle between maximum compression and ignition, you should have divided the time between the cursors and the time/degree... Why? Because time * (time/degree) = time squared / degree... While time / (time/degree) = time * (degree/time) = degree.
In other words always check the measuring units of an operation and you will notice any slip of the pen immediately. Just an advice!
I found you because of Eric's videos, and I'm glad. There are way too few good channels about fixing and diagnosing engines. Thanks for this. Subbed. It's entertaining to watch too, even if you don't plan on doing the work yourself. At least it is to me.
+Atrax R thanks man!
wow man now i know you're human with that booster line fault, but seriously i have learned more with you than with the tech course i'm taking, wish i was at Rosedale Institute, thank you keep posting.
No Question, You guy are a TOP MECHANIC, THANK YOU FOR THE CLASS.
I believe your right. He's basing cam and crank signals of an optical distributor to the pressures produced inside a cylinder on his pressure transducer to verify a timing issue. The engine would have probably run if only the intake was off a tooth, but I am sure there would have been some sort of drive-ability problems. There is a lot of information hiding, other than when a cylinder is TDC, in the cylinder pressure waveform to allow you to determine if the intake is off.
Fantastic diagnosis as per usual Paul,ive learned so much from your videos....Thank you very much
thanks Steve!
My friend, this video is very good info very accurate, helped a friend who is starting to fix his car and not an expert, let me add that this car it does have a separate crankshaft sensor, is at the back of the engine block behind the flywheel, you can see the cable and plug connector under the cam sensor, you'll see where the tranny meets the engine a small notch for the cable to go inside the block just standing in front of the car.............just sharing what I know about those suzuki J engines, Cheers my friend.
Thanks for the tip Gregory!
Anytime my friend, keep up the good work
Gregory Sauri It is however only used for misfire monitoring.
Dame una llamada
I also am a new shop owner and have a young man fresh out of high school working for me and i will def tell him to subscribe and check out your videos for a little more training. great job and keep posting these killer vids
I was diagnosing a car this morning and I thought about this video and wanted to know what you think. I knew off bat it was a timing issue because he said he just changed the timing belt. I pulled the codes, it had a map/tps correlation code. I then listened for the rythm in the crank, it sounded good. Compression check on one accesible cylinder to make sure they weren't all low. it was strong. Vacuum test was 5hg goes up in rpm, brake torque to 2000rpm, Crk/Cam difference 1.09. Fuel Trim 2.3,
Good diagnosis skills, this goes to show, you can have all the ingredients, fuel, air, spark, and pretty good compression readings and still get no start, i reckon a vacuum test would point you in the right direction here also. Why are so many gone back to chain driven cams, i mean they are great on ohv engines but on ohc engines i prefer a belt, they may fail if not maintained right ,but they are easier to service, and they dont wear out the sprockets either.
Excelee
As Mr Burn says"Excellent". Just a suggestion Paul,with all the advanced equipment that you have,you need a $5 laser pointer for pointing at those timing marks :-o
.
Love you
Recently, I've been suspecting that my bone stock 350 chevy (1980s model in a C10 truck) has a jumped timing chain. I have reason to suspect this because (although I do not have any fancy scan equipment) I need to put the distributor to 50 or even 60 degrees advance in order for it to idle ok, and my primitive "scan" tool (a vacuum gauge) has a fluttering needle and constantly hangs around 14 inches of mercury. I've tried my hardest to adjust everything else to get the needle to stay still, which includes setting the valves to zero lash, adjusting the carb's air/fuel mixture, and all sorts of other things... But me being the newbie mechanic I am, it never occurred to me until just recently that the timing chain might have jumped (or was never installed correctly in the first place.) It also makes hardly any power.
This video is making it more apparent to me that I do in fact have a jumped timing chain, as in a modern car like the one in this video, which has coils instead of an old-fashioned distributor, the spark would occur past TDC if the cam is connected to some kind of sensor (a lot like how the cam is connected to the distributor in my truck) and the timing chain jumped past a tooth, and could potentially be overcome by advancing the timing an obscene amount.
Any thoughts?
I would recommend checking and photographing all relevant timing marks and verifying with the manual before stripping a engine down. Best way IMO.
Hey scanner Dan, I bought a 97 Toyota Camry for my daughter, but when I bought it, it was not running and as a self-proclaimed Dan the fix it man, I knew that I could solve and fix the issue... so I thought, I had went through all the possibilities of it not wanting to stay running, I got it running, but it would stall within a few seconds after being started up, I've gone through replacing the fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, the fuel pump housing, because it had a crack in it and was leaking out, but it still did not want to stay running, I've changed the engine temperature sensor, the idle air control sensor, replace the spark plugs, replace the throttle position sensor, made sure the battery is fully charged and good, replace the fuel injectors the old connectors were busted barely hanging on, so I replace the connectors spicing them in and checked to make good contact, even checked out the ECM, everything was fine in there no burnt markings no leaking capacitors, I am waiting today for the new ignition coils and spark plug wires, I looked visually for any kind of hoses with holes to create a vacuum leak, and still it does not want to stay running I've checked the timing and made sure that it was correct, and what I did notice was there was a few missing teeth on the crank timing gear, that I suppose would be very important for the crankshaft position sensor to read, now I know that a gap with no teeth in there but these teeth that are missing look like they were broken and it just dawned on me that, that could be the very reason why my car does not want to stay running, would that be an issue why it does not want to stay running, does it make any sense, your help would be appreciated, thank you.
This was one of the best videos I've watched in a long time!
Thank you very much for posting this.
Job well done.
Outstanding video, great information and clearly taught, thank you.
Nice video, educational as all the ScannerDanner videos. Sounds that this engine needs a valve adjustment too.
It actually does not. Engines that are cranked over and over again, end up with collapsed lifters. Holding the RPM at around 2000 or so will pump them back up again. You can actually here that in the video and I think I mentioned it or left a note about the collapsed lifters in the video, but maybe I forgot.
Thank you!
Awesome Job ! Learned a lot from watching. My 90' camaro should be back up and running in no time
Very important video and real-world practical. Thanks.
there are. i still work in the field too. go to iATN and use their shop finder. anyone listed there you will have a much better chance of getting a good diagnostic guy looking at your car
man this video was excellent. very educational
+Ultravore thanks!
ScannerDanner my car the timing belt looks extremely bad missing a lot teeth in some would this causes no start just grinding noise no spark at all it sounds like there is no compression in the engine
your engine is shot , you bent the valves, its locked up, dude a timing belt needs to be changed, every 80, 000 miles, people should not go beyond it, belts co st under 40 bucks plus what ever the labor , any where between 150 to 300, if you have a non interference its no sweat, no damage but the other deal is a new engine, a rebuild or some piece of shit from the junk yard(why do you think its called a junk yard?)
hey bro. you can do the same thing with a running engine. keep in mind that you can still have ignition timing be on and cam timing be off, in which case you can use the compression wave form to identify valve timing problems. this is a complicated procedure and I am not 100 percent yet on using it
I really appreciate your video. It was very great info when I just did a chain kit on a 2000 1.8 esteem. Thanks again!
Glad you liked it. hopefully it was clear what i was doing in the video
Another great, easy to understand and follow video! Thumbs up from me. Not sure what the thumbs down were for.
REALLY GOOD DIAGNOSIS PERFORMED , KEEP IT UP BRO!!!
thank you SO much for this video. seriously. I bought a used engine that was rebuilt, i think the crank chain wasnt put on incorrectly
no problem, thank you! hopefully I provided enough info. in the video on proper chain alignment. My main focus was on the troubleshooting side of the job
Yes you definitely provided enough info. I wish I would have seen this before I put the engine in, and realized it wasn't running correctly. I was very excited when I opened the engine up to see that it was freshly rebuilt! I just assumed it was done correctly Haha
You my friend are a breath of fresh air against all the other mechanics that shudder at the sight of electronics and down know their arse from elbow looking at a scope. Well done. Enjoyed your systematic approach, and you timing analysis of the waveforms done to the degree calculations of timing offset. I Also thought picking up the amperage off the crank to capture the compression humps a brilliant move. You'll need all the spark plugs in for that obviously. Are the probes widely available?
going to rosedale tomorrow morning for financial aid. hope they can help me out, hope i can be a student, and id love to learn from you!!
Very good job, scanner danner, is a good fix to keep in mind if ever go through this kind of engine issues. Tumps up .
Thank you very much! And yes the equipment and probes I am using are widely available.
picoauto and aeswave is where I get most of my stuff from
ScannerDanner the crankshaft position sensor you have to take out the engine or the transmision near the flywheel is that ckps, that part you show is the camshaft position sensor/ignition distribitotor
dude you have the most coolest videos what im going to do Monday is try it on my vantage pro
thats an amazing video from an amazing instructor it saved me actually , i will be more thankful if you guided me to any online course that focusing on Pressure Transducers .. thanks danner
This is my favorite video. A lot can be learned from this single video!! One question Paul, have you ever seen a no compression problem due to gross cam timing problems. Ive never checked this condition as far as compression goes. Thank you Paul for your great videos.
Absolutely my friend.
thanks for your answer and reply!
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