Watching your videos on working you loades takes me back to when u was 22 and my dad would bore me to death with reloading with him. We loaded thousands of rounds for him M40 and his 03a3 Springfield and his M14. When he went to the Weatherby 30-338 he was like a kid in a candy store. We tried so many different rounds. If he made a bad shit it could give him away and get him killed so when it comes to long. Distance there is no room for mistakes not even a inch. U think I learned from the best and then got better. With time too bad he passed away in 2003 he would have gotten a kick out of these channels I know he would be proud of me for starting my own channel I'm sure there would have been a lot of constructive criticism. That was his second nature your round workup videos are just like watching my dad without the swearing.thank you fir bringing back the best memories of my dad yet on the shooting channels
Dude! Gun, scope, suppressor =$1600 ish and your cranking out sub inch groups like crazy. I love the fact this budget combo gives each of us the ability to buy and shoot an amazingly accurate package. I've picked up a bunch of knowledge from your videos. Thanks man
One the subject of the low velocity first shots, I suspect it has something to do with the burning characteristics of RL17. It possibly leaves something in your silencer that affects the next shots. It may be gasses or partially burnt powder or something else that doesn't have an affect when the silencer is vented by your chiller. But once you warm it up you gas it and leave hot residues in it that raises the velocities slightly. It doesn't happen with 760 because it doesn't burn the same way. I suggest you try just one load of RL 17 without the silencer and see if it happens again. Then you'd know for sure if it's silencer related.
Awesome looking groups, I’m definitely interested in loading up a hunting bullet for a hunt later this year if I’m lucky. I think a 6.5 creedmoor sounds just right for an Antelope
Johnny, Throat erosion is one of those unavoidable things. I think of it like a drill bit, before too long the sharpness wears out. also, friction, heat, sandblasting effect, and flame takes its toll and little by little the material of the barrel is removed. They have done tests of Stainless Steel Vs, Ordnance Steel barrels and they both wore out within 1.000 rounds of each other. I would say though your rifle is shooting just fine, better than I would expect for a firearm in the below $300 range. a good choice for those that don't want to spend a lot of cash on a good shooting rifle. That's what I enjoy about your show, You can do the higher end stuff, however, there is the everyday stuff that most of the people out there have a budget for. Keep up the good work there Dude. Dave.
With the price of that rifle and groups that small, anything better is just icing on the cake. Great shooting and love the effort taken to put these quality videos together!
Boy, 6.5mm sure all of a sudden gotten really popular lately. When I rebarrelled my ARMALITE AR10T with a 26" 1/7 twist stainless steel fluted bull barrel chambered in 260REM back in the 90's, no one cared about the 6.5mm calibers. I picked the 1/7 twist rate because back then SIERRA was still selling their 155gr 6.5mm HPBTMK bullets, but they stop making them about a decade and a half ago. The load I settled on is a BERGER 140gr VLD that I moly coat my self crimped on with a LEE Factory Crimp Die over 43.6gr of 4350 producing 2,700ft/s chronographed. I moly coat my bullets because I used to shoot a lot of CMP matches when I was younger and I've found at the time the moly coat would delay barrel fouling for twice as many rounds. I would find my groups to begin opening up at about 50 rounds, but the matches would go beyond that in rounds fired, so moly coating kept the groups tight to about a 100 rounds, give or take. The draw back with using moly coated bullets is that you have to increase your powder charge a little bit to get your velocities back up to normal, and crimping with the LEE Factory Crimp Die will help in keeping your velocity deviation down. Noticed your M1 GARAND vid. Mine shoots beautifully with crimped moly coated 155gr PALMA bullets over 53.4gr 4064 powder producing 3,020ft/s chronographed. But of course I us an after market adjustable gas plug for my hand loads.
I dont check for accuracy with magneto speed on my barrel. Changes P.O.I. And barrel harmonics. I shoot loads first for target speed, then shoot for nodes, then tweek with seating depth. I have seen lots of weird things with the magneto speed attatched! Great job Johnny, love your stuff!
Love your videos. I realize that I'm weighing in late, but you mentioned how curious it was to have your first shot was taking your ES out so much. It is a phenomenon I've observed on these low mass sporter barrels. Because they are low mass, I think that they are expanding to a much higher degree, quickly. My easiest fix was to upgrade to a more bullish barrel. But like you, I was surprised to see how fast the effect was. Still a great shooter for the $$$!
In artillery they found barrel memory on change of loads. So if last load was hotter or colder the piece might shoot more towards that end. Chamber chiller may exacerbate the effect. As you shot longer the residual heat in barrel and chamber steel might mitigate the issue.
Suggestion: about the first shot "flyer" if you can even call it that. Perhaps you have gas. More specifically hot gas left in the barrel after firing. I know you use the camber chiller between loads, but maybe consider using it even for a few 5-10 seconds between cartrages, more importantly right before you pop one off. Just to let the barrel air out so to speak. I dunno, might be worth a try. Also, have you ever thought about drawing cartrages at random for shooting order? Like if you have 5 different powder weights and 5 rounds per... You could shoot them one round at each bull in sequence 5 times... Or even better draw for the shooting order of each round of 5?? It would add some steps in what must be a busy day already, but you are doing God's work so that makes up for it right? Oh and also we think you are a marvelous human being so there's that. Haha. Anyway J, just some thoughts. Keep em coming, we'll keep on a watching.
I recently tried the Sierra 85gr hollow point in my 6.5 creedmoor. I used varget and RL 17 with a oal of 2.670 and they were tack drivers. This was out of my Ruger predator. All powder charges are close to Max with cci lrp. Awesome load for varmits and coyotes just figured I'd throw it out there.
23 thousandths of throat erosion is pretty fast for just 600 rounds, but I don't think that it's a problem right now. You should have reached the stage of work hardening, so the erosion should slow considerably. Just remember that the warmer the barrel gets, the easier it is for erosion to occur.
Another great video Johnny. Good shooting. Get a instant read infrared thermometer and cool your barrel to the same temp to start each load. May tell you something about the first shot velocities. Have you ever tried the Satterlee load development strategy?
Johnny, I'm not sure if this will cure the first round issue but i'd be instrested to see. In the past i've been told by snipers to take the rounds in my hands and roll them around like a rolling pin between my hand to free up the powder in the cases. I beleive they said it was to unbind any powder that stuck together which helps for repeatability. Thinking about what ypu've been experiencing i'm wonderinf if the recoil is jostling the powder whike the rounds are in the magazine whereas the first round isn't experiencing the recoil to do that. Disclaimer: i am not a sniper and not certain this is why you do this but I this seems logical and those guys that showed me this were making first rounds hits on targets 2200+. Hopefully this helps you
After thinking about this more, it makes sense with extruded powders especially which is what you have experienced in this video. I will be looking back to see which other types of powders you've experienced this with in your videos.
Hey Man, I love me some Sierra bullets. I prefer the Pro Hunter for 30-06. I’ve bought some 65 grain for .223, but I can’t find data on Sierra’s web site. I find adds to buy their manual. Hornady and Sierra are for sure my favorites.
That bullet has worked out very well in 270 win shoots very well woth 4350 and 4831. But I know they are completely different from the 6.5 mm bullets but still a good hinting bullet
I've always liked the bigger bore guns but your defiantly making me a believer in that 6.5 there may be a 6.5 purchase in the near future thanks for making videos about stuff the regular guy can afford do you have a link for the chrono
@Johnny I'm waiting for a video on Puff-Lon. Iv'e searched you tube and I think you''ll be one of the first. I'm hoping you'll revisit the subsonic 147gr M80 pull bullets for 300 blackout using Puff-Lon. I'm getting ready to load up some 147gr M80 pulls subsonic without Puff-Lon, but wanted to see if you had any interest in making a video using Puff-Lon first. Thanks, keep the great vids. coming, and don't "low your face off"!
I'm so excited bc I have a box of federal gold medal Berger 130 grain I hope it will be similar to 130 grain match king performance in the tc compass 6.5
I have been looking at the 130Grain Sierra TMK have you got any experience with these rounds ? Also I have been looking at the IMR 4166 Powder .. Have you any experience with this powder also ?? I have been trying to put together a good accurate theoretical round in my head before buying the components and these seem to be good independently but not sure what they'd be like together ??? using large primer brass with ( CCI 200 )
I haven't tried the 130 TMK but it's on my list to try in the future. I'm sure it will be a good shooting bullet for you. IMR 4166 is a little bit fast burning for the 6.5 Creedmoor. I would suggest IMR 4451 instead. I've been having great luck with it in Creedmoor and Sierra has data for it with the 130 TMK. I've tried 4166 in several other cartridges and never had any luck with accuracy. A lot of my viewers have reported the same experience. I don't have many powders I dislike but IMR 4166 is one of them.
It'll be good to see your video on the TMK I'll be keeping an eye out for it !! But as far as the powder goes being in the UK its quite difficult to get ahold of some of the american powders , the for example I can't get IMR 4451 with my local shop .. If I Was going to stick to IMR at the moment I can only get : 4166, 4198, 4320, 4895, 7828 and 8208 XBR obviously other makes are available : Ramshot, Hodgdon, Alliant, Lovex and Reload Swiss not sure what would work best ?? Thank you for your fast response and help you've just saved me from wasting money on a pot of powder thats no good !
My suggestion would be to print out the Sierra load data for the 130 TMK and take it with you to the shop. sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/01/09/sierra-bullets-6-5-creedmoor-load-data/ The only two powders in the list I have no experience with are at the bottom...Hodgdon Hybrid 100V and Alliant Reloder 19. Hodgdon H4350 is the most popular powder in 6.5 Creedmoor. If they've got it, that's what you should get. Other than that, I've had success with every other powder in the list. I haven't tested them all in Creedmoor, but they've been good performers in other cartridges. Good luck!
Thank you for the fast reply again, I will find out what they have and give them ago , I'll probably end up making a short video showing the results or at least some photos , I'll let you know what I end up going for and if the Sierra TMK's are as good as they are hyped up to be !! Thank you again for your help and info !
I ordered Hornady Lock n load shell plate for 6.5 creedmoor and Hornady custom grade dies to match from the Brownells link in the description last Thursday the shell plate arrive yesterday but the dies are on backorder I'm patiently waiting I think I'll start my load testing with h4350 using Hornady brass CCI 41 with Hornady bthp match for paper punching then goto hunting bullets using same components
The Hornady brass will have large primers, so be sure not to buy the 41's! I haven't done enough testing with Large Rifle primers yet to give good advice, but the Winchester WLR and CCI 200 have worked well for me in my limited testing. Good luck getting started! Hope your dies get back in stock quickly!
Johnny's Reloading Bench ty I realized after I typed that the primer would not work with the Hornady brass I wanted to get some starline but I ended up with 80 rounds of factory Hornady and 20 federal gold medal Berger for 20 dollars a box so once I sight in and do my barrel break-in I'll have plenty Hornady brass to work loads up I'll have to try out the CCI 200 and WLR
Aaron Anderson When guys say their barrel is "shot," they mean it went from sub 0.5 moa to 0.75-1moa. Most shooters probably can't tell the difference unless they reload and shoot exclusively for groups on a rest.
I have heard your barrel isn't burned out until the velocity on your go to load starts dropping off. Not by 30 or 40fps, but more like 100-200fps. I have seen this in my 7mag which had around 3500 rounds thru it. Accuracy did drop off too but the velocity went from 3080 down to 2830fps. At 4000 rounds it dropped to 2693. I know that is a lot through a 7mag, but I have had that gun since I was 16 (36 now). Anyway, needless to say I have a new barrel now.
I'm willing to bet that the first round velocity difference is from the first round pop of the suppressor. Being the suppressor has not gasses inside it on the first round they expand to fill the void. But once it's filled it acts like a barrel extension spiking the velocities. Or so I'm guessing
Have you seen the new actions from Bighorn and American rifle company? Cheap (relatively) for customs and compatible with savage prefit barrels. Also have bolt heads for .223, .308, and short magnum cartridges. Seems like they would be excellent test beds for multiple calibers.
I was thinking about the chamber chiller. May be it change the residual pressure in the suppressor? The phenomen could be reduced by the slower powder? I've always discern a noticeable difference when i shoot suppressed in the first shot, this one is much louder than the others, have it be the same for you?
What is the ting about speed, way dont you try to find a lower node and save som barrel life. I shut range her in Norway and we shut 6.5x55 se in Krag Jørgensen, mauser 67m and Sauer 200str whit barrel in 670/19mm, 700/21mm, 730/21mm and 750/21mm. We use 37000psi to 44000psi and have no truble whit under 1 moa. at 300m (ca. 320yards) whit å open sight (diopter). Normal barrel life is a round 6000 shoots.
What about your moose rifle? Don't you want the most velocity for the quickest kill possible? For match ammunition things are different. I agree with you that sometimes I worry too much about high velocities. Especially for matches at fixed distances, it really doesn't matter very much.
Have you considered that the lower velocity on the first shot is to do with the first round pop of the supressor. Something to do with the first round burning all the oxygen inside the supressor affecting following shots. Try it without the supressor and see what happens
Johnny, any chance of testing out the 140gr gameking? I just purchased some for my Compass and am interested to see how they work for you. I'm leaning towards IMR 4451 because H4350 is nearly impossible to find where I'm at.
Could the variable of the first round have to do with internal ballistics that are attributed to first round pop from your suppressor? I do not know, but it is what came to my mind with your results from WW 760.
I suggest you test LAPUA Scenar L 120gr and 136gr at 800 to 840m/s with vihtavuori n150. What do you think about oal? When you slam the cartridge into the chamber with an auto. Does not that work like a bullet puller and slam the bulet into the lands?
You can get Savage 12FV with a bull barrel for around $319.00. An aluminum Bell & Carlson stock will run you around $270.00. I'm just not digging the sporter barrels.
I got one recently and ran some Winchester White Box 125 grain through it, only got 3 MOA from that combo. Not sure whether to blame myself or the ammo. This is shooting off of bags with a 10x SWFA (w/factory stock)
I’m gonna be loading some 110vmax in .308 for some groundhog rounds in the spring, but I have no idea what powder to use. I have varget but people say it’s too slow for light bullets. Any help will be appreciated.
The results of the ballistic gel tests with the Berger bullets was not weird. In fact, the bullets did exactly what they are designed to do - enter the animal/target and explode like a grenade. I have killed many coyotes and deer with Berger bullets. I used to be a die hard Nosler partition guy, but not any more. The terminal performance of Berger bullets cannot be beat. There is no tracking. The animals are Dead Right There. If you go to Midway USA, Brownells or some of the other sites selling Berger bullets, you will see that a lot of people have had similar results.
The ones that "exploded" were not weird. I admit that now that I am more informed about what to expect from Berger. The ones that worried me are the one round that mushroomed and didn't fragment, and the other one that tumbled and did not mushroom or fragment at all. The performance was inconsistent. I am looking forward to trying these others to see if the performance is at least more consistent. Maybe it won't be!
Do a video whereyou Dont use the chamber chiller and see if it effects the first shot velocity spread or Dont let the barrel cool as much from group to group
There are about 5 more powders I REALLY want to try, but I have to focus on what I've already got. I will be getting to RL16, 4831SC, Norma MRP, and several others, but I've got enough powders on hand for the time being. I have to be smart about how I spend the Patreon money!
I'd like to see somebody send some H450. Out of production, awesome powder. Someone could surely send ya a pound. Thanks. Great job Johnny God Bless ya brother. HB too
Johnny..I have a slight problem. Seems yoy have shot more than me..if you buy a varible scope..3-9..4-16..etc..will it change POI on changing magnification? I usually zero my new optics at the midway point, to divide out that POI if it does change. Thanks for all you do, Rick.
Richard Tibbetts In my experience I have seen 1 cheap scope change its zero when the magnification is changed. This scope was a cheap bushnell 3-9x40 that came on a Remington 700 ADL "package" gun that I bought as a donor rifle for a custom build. If the rifle was in a vice you could actually see the crosshairs shift when adjusting magnification. I believe this was an extreme case and ultimately ended up scrapping the scope. My high end scopes have not exhibited any of these symptoms. All scopes are designed to not have the zero shift but they don't always get assembled correctly.
A good scope shouldn't change parallax or point of impact when changing magnification. Most will change the eye relief though. Part of the testing you should do is verify at low/high magnification that the turret tracking is true and that POI doesn't change with magnification.
I almost did. I was about to start the video with RL17 and RL26, but decided to switch up to Win 760 at the last minute. It's REALLY tempting to shoot RL26 in EVERYTHING due to those crazy velocities. I need an 8 lbs jug of the stuff, I think.
Johnny's Reloading Bench .... Might watch out some concern of the burn temp and barrel erosion as some early runs have shown faster barrel burnout from the reading I have done. So I switched back to a more normal H1000 on my WinMag. But man did those Fly!
Johnny cause i want to know this bullet for my Grendel i watch this closely. say one out every group Johnny pulled trigger off. no one is that good less crank it down in vice no wind tunnel Magus. his wind coming from left. up lift can't go by groups. got to go with each shoot. twist right. barrel get hot one shoot two well hot. more pressure. increase pressure bullet drop some times bit right remove one bad shoot for each group hot barrel bullet drops over power gyro drift. could say nods and that is to moving groups. but watch shoots one after other minus one shoot booboos. two much twist rate for that light of bullet with strange tip? maybe work in grendel low. nice groups as is. but thin barrel 130 game king Creedmoor is tiny bit of a problem. at that twist rate. maybe what say yaws?
Watching your videos on working you loades takes me back to when u was 22 and my dad would bore me to death with reloading with him. We loaded thousands of rounds for him M40 and his 03a3 Springfield and his M14. When he went to the Weatherby 30-338 he was like a kid in a candy store. We tried so many different rounds. If he made a bad shit it could give him away and get him killed so when it comes to long. Distance there is no room for mistakes not even a inch. U think I learned from the best and then got better. With time too bad he passed away in 2003 he would have gotten a kick out of these channels I know he would be proud of me for starting my own channel I'm sure there would have been a lot of constructive criticism. That was his second nature your round workup videos are just like watching my dad without the swearing.thank you fir bringing back the best memories of my dad yet on the shooting channels
Dude! Gun, scope, suppressor =$1600 ish and your cranking out sub inch groups like crazy. I love the fact this budget combo gives each of us the ability to buy and shoot an amazingly accurate package. I've picked up a bunch of knowledge from your videos. Thanks man
Great Vidya. A Sierra bullet that shoots nice small groups. It's almost like they know something about making bullets.
Look up part 59535K13 on mcmaster carr - stick on temperature label. Pop it on your barrel and you can see chamber temp. Also, great shooting today!
Old guys call it "chasing the lands". When your worst groups are under an inch...love that and in a cost concious rifle. Thanks!
Another JRB shirt comment "Pressure Signs?... Aw Screw It!"
I believe the manufactuer's test this stuff extensively. Of course you can still blow your face off. Just be as safe a possible.
Great shooting JRB. Your TC Compass has broken in nicely and shooting great. Nicely done.
One the subject of the low velocity first shots, I suspect it has something to do with the burning characteristics of RL17. It possibly leaves something in your silencer that affects the next shots. It may be gasses or partially burnt powder or something else that doesn't have an affect when the silencer is vented by your chiller. But once you warm it up you gas it and leave hot residues in it that raises the velocities slightly. It doesn't happen with 760 because it doesn't burn the same way. I suggest you try just one load of RL 17 without the silencer and see if it happens again. Then you'd know for sure if it's silencer related.
Awesome looking groups, I’m definitely interested in loading up a hunting bullet for a hunt later this year if I’m lucky. I think a 6.5 creedmoor sounds just right for an Antelope
Johnny, Throat erosion is one of those unavoidable things. I think of it like a drill bit, before too long the sharpness wears out. also, friction, heat, sandblasting effect, and flame takes its toll and little by little the material of the barrel is removed. They have done tests of Stainless Steel Vs, Ordnance Steel barrels and they both wore out within 1.000 rounds of each other. I would say though your rifle is shooting just fine, better than I would expect for a firearm in the below $300 range. a good choice for those that don't want to spend a lot of cash on a good shooting rifle. That's what I enjoy about your show, You can do the higher end stuff, however, there is the everyday stuff that most of the people out there have a budget for. Keep up the good work there Dude. Dave.
With the price of that rifle and groups that small, anything better is just icing on the cake. Great shooting and love the effort taken to put these quality videos together!
Boy, 6.5mm sure all of a sudden gotten really popular lately. When I rebarrelled my ARMALITE AR10T with a 26" 1/7 twist stainless steel fluted bull barrel chambered in 260REM back in the 90's, no one cared about the 6.5mm calibers. I picked the 1/7 twist rate because back then SIERRA was still selling their 155gr 6.5mm HPBTMK bullets, but they stop making them about a decade and a half ago.
The load I settled on is a BERGER 140gr VLD that I moly coat my self crimped on with a LEE Factory Crimp Die over 43.6gr of 4350 producing 2,700ft/s chronographed. I moly coat my bullets because I used to shoot a lot of CMP matches when I was younger and I've found at the time the moly coat would delay barrel fouling for twice as many rounds. I would find my groups to begin opening up at about 50 rounds, but the matches would go beyond that in rounds fired, so moly coating kept the groups tight to about a 100 rounds, give or take. The draw back with using moly coated bullets is that you have to increase your powder charge a little bit to get your velocities back up to normal, and crimping with the LEE Factory Crimp Die will help in keeping your velocity deviation down.
Noticed your M1 GARAND vid. Mine shoots beautifully with crimped moly coated 155gr PALMA bullets over 53.4gr 4064 powder producing 3,020ft/s chronographed. But of course I us an after market adjustable gas plug for my hand loads.
I dont check for accuracy with magneto speed on my barrel. Changes P.O.I. And barrel harmonics. I shoot loads first for target speed, then shoot for nodes, then tweek with seating depth. I have seen lots of weird things with the magneto speed attatched! Great job Johnny, love your stuff!
Love your videos. I realize that I'm weighing in late, but you mentioned how curious it was to have your first shot was taking your ES out so much. It is a phenomenon I've observed on these low mass sporter barrels. Because they are low mass, I think that they are expanding to a much higher degree, quickly. My easiest fix was to upgrade to a more bullish barrel. But like you, I was surprised to see how fast the effect was. Still a great shooter for the $$$!
Love this channel
In artillery they found barrel memory on change of loads. So if last load was hotter or colder the piece might shoot more towards that end. Chamber chiller may exacerbate the effect. As you shot longer the residual heat in barrel and chamber steel might mitigate the issue.
That sounds like a reasonable explanation!
You need a thermal sleeve! Ok maybe not
I'm loving the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Suggestion: about the first shot "flyer" if you can even call it that. Perhaps you have gas. More specifically hot gas left in the barrel after firing. I know you use the camber chiller between loads, but maybe consider using it even for a few 5-10 seconds between cartrages, more importantly right before you pop one off. Just to let the barrel air out so to speak. I dunno, might be worth a try.
Also, have you ever thought about drawing cartrages at random for shooting order? Like if you have 5 different powder weights and 5 rounds per... You could shoot them one round at each bull in sequence 5 times... Or even better draw for the shooting order of each round of 5?? It would add some steps in what must be a busy day already, but you are doing God's work so that makes up for it right? Oh and also we think you are a marvelous human being so there's that. Haha. Anyway J, just some thoughts. Keep em coming, we'll keep on a watching.
You plan on running those through the Grendel sometime soon?
Great videos. By far my most enjoyed TH-cam channel.
I recently tried the Sierra 85gr hollow point in my 6.5 creedmoor. I used varget and RL 17 with a oal of 2.670 and they were tack drivers. This was out of my Ruger predator. All powder charges are close to Max with cci lrp. Awesome load for varmits and coyotes just figured I'd throw it out there.
nice vid sir. Always very pertinent info for reloading and shooting, with no fluff.
Really enjoying this series. Great picture quality too.
23 thousandths of throat erosion is pretty fast for just 600 rounds, but I don't think that it's a problem right now. You should have reached the stage of work hardening, so the erosion should slow considerably. Just remember that the warmer the barrel gets, the easier it is for erosion to occur.
Take the can off and see if the first shot speeed variation goes away, might be a variation of first round pop.
Thompson Jerry could get one of those co2 cartridge things ha ha
Another great video Johnny. Good shooting. Get a instant read infrared thermometer and cool your barrel to the same temp to start each load. May tell you something about the first shot velocities. Have you ever tried the Satterlee load development strategy?
Johnny, I'm not sure if this will cure the first round issue but i'd be instrested to see.
In the past i've been told by snipers to take the rounds in my hands and roll them around like a rolling pin between my hand to free up the powder in the cases. I beleive they said it was to unbind any powder that stuck together which helps for repeatability.
Thinking about what ypu've been experiencing i'm wonderinf if the recoil is jostling the powder whike the rounds are in the magazine whereas the first round isn't experiencing the recoil to do that.
Disclaimer: i am not a sniper and not certain this is why you do this but I this seems logical and those guys that showed me this were making first rounds hits on targets 2200+.
Hopefully this helps you
After thinking about this more, it makes sense with extruded powders especially which is what you have experienced in this video. I will be looking back to see which other types of powders you've experienced this with in your videos.
Great to see a video on this bullet. I just shot it with h4350 and also had amazing accuracy
Also, i use this same sierra in a 90gr 25cal in my 25dti on deer and it performs great
A HIGHER MAGNIFICATION SCOPE FOR TESTING IS A BIG HELP.
Hey Man, I love me some Sierra bullets. I prefer the Pro Hunter for 30-06. I’ve bought some 65 grain for .223, but I can’t find data on Sierra’s web site. I find adds to buy their manual. Hornady and Sierra are for sure my favorites.
That bullet has worked out very well in 270 win shoots very well woth 4350 and 4831. But I know they are completely different from the 6.5 mm bullets but still a good hinting bullet
I've always liked the bigger bore guns but your defiantly making me a believer in that 6.5 there may be a 6.5 purchase in the near future thanks for making videos about stuff the regular guy can afford do you have a link for the chrono
@Johnny I'm waiting for a video on Puff-Lon. Iv'e searched you tube and I think you''ll be one of the first. I'm hoping you'll revisit the subsonic 147gr M80 pull bullets for 300 blackout using Puff-Lon. I'm getting ready to load up some 147gr M80 pulls subsonic without Puff-Lon, but wanted to see if you had any interest in making a video using Puff-Lon first. Thanks, keep the great vids. coming, and don't "low your face off"!
I'm so excited bc I have a box of federal gold medal Berger 130 grain I hope it will be similar to 130 grain match king performance in the tc compass 6.5
Nice load testing info and good shooting. Was think about a new bergara 6.5 creedmoor. I have a custom .260 that is a real accurate rifle.
That bullet wasn't picky at all with those two powders! I've got some RL17. I'll pick up some of those bullets to try this weekend.
Excellent video and info Johnny, question for you, have you ever tried Hodgdon Superformance ?
I have been looking at the 130Grain Sierra TMK have you got any experience with these rounds ? Also I have been looking at the IMR 4166 Powder .. Have you any experience with this powder also ?? I have been trying to put together a good accurate theoretical round in my head before buying the components and these seem to be good independently but not sure what they'd be like together ??? using large primer brass with ( CCI 200 )
I haven't tried the 130 TMK but it's on my list to try in the future. I'm sure it will be a good shooting bullet for you.
IMR 4166 is a little bit fast burning for the 6.5 Creedmoor. I would suggest IMR 4451 instead. I've been having great luck with it in Creedmoor and Sierra has data for it with the 130 TMK.
I've tried 4166 in several other cartridges and never had any luck with accuracy. A lot of my viewers have reported the same experience. I don't have many powders I dislike but IMR 4166 is one of them.
It'll be good to see your video on the TMK I'll be keeping an eye out for it !! But as far as the powder goes being in the UK its quite difficult to get ahold of some of the american powders , the for example I can't get IMR 4451 with my local shop .. If I Was going to stick to IMR at the moment I can only get : 4166, 4198, 4320, 4895, 7828 and 8208 XBR obviously other makes are available : Ramshot, Hodgdon, Alliant, Lovex and Reload Swiss not sure what would work best ?? Thank you for your fast response and help you've just saved me from wasting money on a pot of powder thats no good !
My suggestion would be to print out the Sierra load data for the 130 TMK and take it with you to the shop. sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/01/09/sierra-bullets-6-5-creedmoor-load-data/
The only two powders in the list I have no experience with are at the bottom...Hodgdon Hybrid 100V and Alliant Reloder 19.
Hodgdon H4350 is the most popular powder in 6.5 Creedmoor. If they've got it, that's what you should get.
Other than that, I've had success with every other powder in the list. I haven't tested them all in Creedmoor, but they've been good performers in other cartridges. Good luck!
Thank you for the fast reply again, I will find out what they have and give them ago , I'll probably end up making a short video showing the results or at least some photos , I'll let you know what I end up going for and if the Sierra TMK's are as good as they are hyped up to be !! Thank you again for your help and info !
I ordered Hornady Lock n load shell plate for 6.5 creedmoor and Hornady custom grade dies to match from the Brownells link in the description last Thursday the shell plate arrive yesterday but the dies are on backorder I'm patiently waiting I think I'll start my load testing with h4350 using Hornady brass CCI 41 with Hornady bthp match for paper punching then goto hunting bullets using same components
The Hornady brass will have large primers, so be sure not to buy the 41's! I haven't done enough testing with Large Rifle primers yet to give good advice, but the Winchester WLR and CCI 200 have worked well for me in my limited testing. Good luck getting started! Hope your dies get back in stock quickly!
Johnny's Reloading Bench ty I realized after I typed that the primer would not work with the Hornady brass I wanted to get some starline but I ended up with 80 rounds of factory Hornady and 20 federal gold medal Berger for 20 dollars a box so once I sight in and do my barrel break-in I'll have plenty Hornady brass to work loads up I'll have to try out the CCI 200 and WLR
Man whoever said the CM barrels are shot after 2k rounds are the guys with Ruger Precision Rifles loading rounds WAY to hot.
Aaron Anderson When guys say their barrel is "shot," they mean it went from sub 0.5 moa to 0.75-1moa. Most shooters probably can't tell the difference unless they reload and shoot exclusively for groups on a rest.
Just like anything else, things get exaggerated and taken to extremes.
I have heard your barrel isn't burned out until the velocity on your go to load starts dropping off. Not by 30 or 40fps, but more like 100-200fps. I have seen this in my 7mag which had around 3500 rounds thru it. Accuracy did drop off too but the velocity went from 3080 down to 2830fps. At 4000 rounds it dropped to 2693. I know that is a lot through a 7mag, but I have had that gun since I was 16 (36 now). Anyway, needless to say I have a new barrel now.
Back30shooters I'd agree that barrel is truly shot out, not simply from a gun snob point of view.
You can basically pick any of this load
And be happy 😁
If I ever going to reload
I’ll just have to remember R17 W760 😁
That is a good load for that rifle.
Ive looked in these videos and maybe ive missed it, but what neck tension are you using? sorry I know this is an older video
I'm willing to bet that the first round velocity difference is from the first round pop of the suppressor. Being the suppressor has not gasses inside it on the first round they expand to fill the void. But once it's filled it acts like a barrel extension spiking the velocities. Or so I'm guessing
When do you plan to give Reloader-22 a try with the 143gr ELD-X bullet.
Have you seen the new actions from Bighorn and American rifle company? Cheap (relatively) for customs and compatible with savage prefit barrels. Also have bolt heads for .223, .308, and short magnum cartridges. Seems like they would be excellent test beds for multiple calibers.
It looks like the rifle really does like those bullets.
I was thinking about the chamber chiller. May be it change the residual pressure in the suppressor?
The phenomen could be reduced by the slower powder? I've always discern a noticeable difference when i shoot suppressed in the first shot, this one is much louder than the others, have it be the same for you?
What is the ting about speed, way dont you try to find a lower node and save som barrel life. I shut range her in Norway and we shut 6.5x55 se in Krag Jørgensen, mauser 67m and Sauer 200str whit barrel in 670/19mm, 700/21mm, 730/21mm and 750/21mm. We use 37000psi to 44000psi and have no truble whit under 1 moa. at 300m (ca. 320yards) whit å open sight (diopter). Normal barrel life is a round 6000 shoots.
What about your moose rifle? Don't you want the most velocity for the quickest kill possible?
For match ammunition things are different. I agree with you that sometimes I worry too much about high velocities. Especially for matches at fixed distances, it really doesn't matter very much.
Big fan here ! Boy , I wish you shot 243win. What is your cartridge ? Thanks for all the help so far!
depends on how long you leave the round in the chamber before you actually get to fire off the shot.... makes a bigger diff than you would think..
Have you considered that the lower velocity on the first shot is to do with the first round pop of the supressor. Something to do with the first round burning all the oxygen inside the supressor affecting following shots.
Try it without the supressor and see what happens
Johnny, any chance of testing out the 140gr gameking? I just purchased some for my Compass and am interested to see how they work for you. I'm leaning towards IMR 4451 because H4350 is nearly impossible to find where I'm at.
Good stuff as always!!
Correction, just found out SIERRA is producing a 150gr 6.5mm HPBTMK bullets now! And their profile is even better than their old 155gr bullets were!
Another great video
What happened on the AR trigger? Did you order one? Good shooting on the 6.5!
A viewer is sending me a Larue to try out. I held off on buying a Giessele for the time being. I hope to be back in action soon!
Johnny's Reloading Bench have you sent back your troubling triggers?
Could the variable of the first round have to do with internal ballistics that are attributed to first round pop from your suppressor? I do not know, but it is what came to my mind with your results from WW 760.
I am a bit confused are these Match Kings or Game Kings?
I would try a W760 in 43.4 and maybe 43,5 g.Interesting reloads,I am currently running up same projectile in ADI powders.
I suggest you test LAPUA Scenar L 120gr and 136gr at 800 to 840m/s with vihtavuori n150.
What do you think about oal? When you slam the cartridge into the chamber with an auto. Does not that work like a bullet puller and slam the bulet into the lands?
Are you annealing your brass? Your extreme spread and standard deviation will greatly improve.
Great shooting! Do you think this rifle shoots better with the "can" and mag speed?
I wonder if the cool air in the suppressor slows the bullet down that much? Try shooting a couple of groups without the suppressor?
Good stuff man!
So, whats next? What gun caliber do you have on the back burner?
You can get Savage 12FV with a bull barrel for around $319.00. An aluminum Bell & Carlson stock will run you around $270.00. I'm just not digging the sporter barrels.
I got one recently and ran some Winchester White Box 125 grain through it, only got 3 MOA from that combo. Not sure whether to blame myself or the ammo. This is shooting off of bags with a 10x SWFA (w/factory stock)
I’m gonna be loading some 110vmax in .308 for some groundhog rounds in the spring, but I have no idea what powder to use. I have varget but people say it’s too slow for light bullets. Any help will be appreciated.
The results of the ballistic gel tests with the Berger bullets was not weird. In fact, the bullets did exactly what they are designed to do - enter the animal/target and explode like a grenade. I have killed many coyotes and deer with Berger bullets. I used to be a die hard Nosler partition guy, but not any more. The terminal performance of Berger bullets cannot be beat. There is no tracking. The animals are Dead Right There. If you go to Midway USA, Brownells or some of the other sites selling Berger bullets, you will see that a lot of people have had similar results.
The ones that "exploded" were not weird. I admit that now that I am more informed about what to expect from Berger. The ones that worried me are the one round that mushroomed and didn't fragment, and the other one that tumbled and did not mushroom or fragment at all. The performance was inconsistent.
I am looking forward to trying these others to see if the performance is at least more consistent. Maybe it won't be!
Do a video whereyou Dont use the chamber chiller and see if it effects the first shot velocity spread or Dont let the barrel cool as much from group to group
What program do you use to analyze the targets and poi spread?
Is it possible to shoot 6.5 Grendel with win 760 ?
What would my max charge be for the 143gr eld-x with the winchester 760 powder
how about a session on 147 eld match and some RL16? pretty please
Morning ☕️🍩
I bet bedding this rifle would get rid of some of those flyers. A stress free bedding job is important. I bet your grandpa's 6ppc is bedded.
What suppressor do you use.do you use it on multiple guns
Silencerco Omega. I use it on everything I own that has a threaded muzzle.
Damn nice!
You should try some H4831sc
There are about 5 more powders I REALLY want to try, but I have to focus on what I've already got. I will be getting to RL16, 4831SC, Norma MRP, and several others, but I've got enough powders on hand for the time being. I have to be smart about how I spend the Patreon money!
I'd like to see somebody send some H450. Out of production, awesome powder. Someone could surely send ya a pound. Thanks. Great job Johnny God Bless ya brother. HB too
I need a Compass already!
Johnny..I have a slight problem. Seems yoy have shot more than me..if you buy a varible scope..3-9..4-16..etc..will it change POI on changing magnification? I usually zero my new optics at the midway point, to divide out that POI if it does change. Thanks for all you do, Rick.
Richard Tibbetts In my experience I have seen 1 cheap scope change its zero when the magnification is changed. This scope was a cheap bushnell 3-9x40 that came on a Remington 700 ADL "package" gun that I bought as a donor rifle for a custom build. If the rifle was in a vice you could actually see the crosshairs shift when adjusting magnification. I believe this was an extreme case and ultimately ended up scrapping the scope.
My high end scopes have not exhibited any of these symptoms. All scopes are designed to not have the zero shift but they don't always get assembled correctly.
A good scope shouldn't change parallax or point of impact when changing magnification. Most will change the eye relief though. Part of the testing you should do is verify at low/high magnification that the turret tracking is true and that POI doesn't change with magnification.
What rear bag are you using?
Protektor No 14 goo.gl/Sftgon
Say maybe try some RL26 with this bullet for giggles.
I almost did. I was about to start the video with RL17 and RL26, but decided to switch up to Win 760 at the last minute. It's REALLY tempting to shoot RL26 in EVERYTHING due to those crazy velocities. I need an 8 lbs jug of the stuff, I think.
Yes I just ordered these bullets to try in a Howa 1500 6.5x55 Swede. I'm going to try some RL26 and maybe RL17. Hard to find RL17 in my area though.
Johnny's Reloading Bench .... Might watch out some concern of the burn temp and barrel erosion as some early runs have shown faster barrel burnout from the reading I have done. So I switched back to a more normal H1000 on my WinMag.
But man did those Fly!
140gr Game King with IMR4451
Try 120 grin ttxs barns
Johnny cause i want to know this bullet for my Grendel i watch this closely. say one out every group Johnny pulled trigger off. no one is that good less crank it down in vice no wind tunnel Magus. his wind coming from left. up lift can't go by groups. got to go with each shoot. twist right. barrel get hot one shoot two well hot. more pressure. increase pressure bullet drop some times bit right remove one bad shoot for each group hot barrel bullet drops over power gyro drift. could say nods and that is to moving groups. but watch shoots one after other minus one shoot booboos. two much twist rate for that light of bullet with strange tip? maybe work in grendel low. nice groups as is. but thin barrel 130 game king Creedmoor is tiny bit of a problem. at that twist rate. maybe what say yaws?
NOT BAD FOR $200.00 RIFLE
Hunt'n
10 years living with the funny talkin' flatlanders in Ohio wasn't quite enough to strip me of all my hillbilly. Thank god.
Hold on to them roots my son. HAHA
M
CCI41 FTW