Wilson should link to this video as part of their instructions. Thank you for explaining everything well. Loaded 127 Grain Barnes LRX in 6.5CM this weekend. Looking forward to taking a deer with it.
Hey Johnny, According to your velocity chart 43.1 is the best place with the BR4 primer. You want the curve to be as flat as possible on either side of the chosen charge weight. 43.7 has relatively large speed changes on either side. I wouldn't pick it without a good reason.
Just got a deer today with my grandfather's .243 Winchester model 70 he bought for woodchucks. Hit the buck with the Hornady SST 95gr. Went about 20 yards and dropped dead.
I started working up a load for my .243 with an SST today. Evidently my rifle doesn’t so much like the SST with H4350. What powder are you using for it? I have RL16 I was wanting to try as well.
Love my 243 win. Running nosler Silver Ballistics tips in factory winchesters ammo. I load some same noslee balistic Silvertips with Hornady brass in cci primers with stayball 6.5. The other day to try.
Late reply - just got back from deer camp - but this is a wealth of information! I, for one, am happy you included the last five shots of each primer type. It'll be a good reference point for the point of impact of your groups as you continue to test and tinker.
Sitting here loading up some 6.5 creedmoor right now with 140gr Sierra Game Changer TGK and H4350. Saw your video notification pop up and got stoked. 👍🏼
I've used Wilson bushing dies for 10 years and own a bunch of Redding bushing dies which are also nice. The Wilson bushing has a neat feature. If flipped over, ie numbers down, it is about .0003-4 ten thousandths tighter due to a 3 degree taper intentionally machined into it. Sometimes your measurements indicate an uneven number bushing but since they are not available unless you send one in and have custom size made you can flip it if you think the tension is a slightly light and possible get one that Little Red Riding Hood would call "juuust right". I do it quite a bit with new lots of brass which can vary a bit. Right now I have a friends 6.5 Creedmoor Bergara and new box of Lapua brass and I had best results when I flipped the bushing in a die I use for a batch of my own Lapua brass, which is perfect numbers up.
I can’t easily say I’m not at this point. I got into reloading so I would gain the ability to make my own ammo. In a way I’m glad I haven’t gotten sucked down this rabbit hole like I have with some other things. I like reloading but haven’t yet gotten the precision bug yet. If I had a property I could shoot on I think it would be a different story. Having to go to the range every time I want to test something really kills it for me.
Johnny, I have been reloading since 1994 and you make me feel like a total amateur. Dood, u got skills I need - I could use a credit card my wife doesnt know exists also...
Howdy Johnny, not sure if someone else here said this, there has to be an actual Machinist in here. If you set that Arbor Press up so that you finish the work/press, and the arm is parallel to the ground (you are pushing straight down on the arm) you will find it much easier to use. You may still have some slip on heavily compressed loads dependent on neck tension, but it still works easier
Hey there my fellow reloaders, great vid as usual, love to see the 6.5 lead free options aren't as bad as originally expected out of the ar10 even with the he possibility of the rounds moving whist being actioned. End result looks more than sufficient for any ethical hunting distance.
Very interesting video. I used 130 grain Berger OTM bullets in Lapua 6.5x47 for a 600 yd. prone match Saturday. The 6.5x47 Lapua holds less powder than the Creedmore but I have a 30” Krieger barrel compared to your 20” barrel. It was a team match so I had a wind coach. The rounds landed on call. I think the Bergers shot very well indeed. I used 39.5 grains of H4350. The first match I shot rather badly so so all I can say is that the shots went where the trigger broke. The second match I managed 13X indicating to me that the gun and the ammo shot very well and any misses were my fault. It also indicates my wind coach did a good job. The bad news: Berger bullets now cost over 50 cents/round. Every target shooters ideal is a bullet this good that doesn’t cost so much.
On the AR platform you should check your neck tension by releasing the bolt and then re-measure your C.O.A.L. to make sure they are not growing. Love watching your videos. Just remember.... a little strike with the hammer will fix anything, lol
I already have 50 different loads in 6 different calibers using a dozen different powder, primers and projectiles. I THINK I MAY HAVE A PROBLEM AND YOUR NOT HELPING! Love me some JRB! It’s like your doing the Lords work and I’m a disciple!
Good video. I must be lucky, I shoot the PPU (Privi) 120's and Hornady 129 SST's and have had great luck with my Savage 12FV. The PPU 120's are a cheap ($.27) OTM bullet and the SST's speak for themselves. Pushed by a mid charge of StaBall 6.5, Win 748 or IMR 4350 I get top velocity's and 3/8" groups at 100 yards using just a set of standard Hornady dies. I do spend a huge amount of time on my brass. In our current shortage I use Federal 308 Brass and resize it to 6.5 Creedmoor, deburr the flash holes and turn the necks. These rounds just work in anything I fire them in so far and a half dozen whitetails have fallen to them in both mine and my family's rifles, most times DRT at ranges out to 200 yards or so. On the range 300 yard groups if I do my part average 2", maybe slightly over out of my Savage, best I can do with the 6x24x50 Vortex Tactical glass on top but the performance of the loads has been just great and won't break the bank.
One way to deal with compressed loads and arbor dies: 1. Seat bullet only a quarter of the way. 2. Flip entire assembly upside down, letting the powder settle around the boattail and finish the seating to full depth.
Vihtavuori has become my go to powder for the Grendel and the Creedmoor... With the 120gr Gold Dots and Vihtavuori N135 in my 6.5 Grendel I'm getting 2520fps out of a 20 inch Proof Research match barrel with a SD of 3fps and an ES of 7fps that's consistently shooting into .5 to .75 inches. My Creedmoor I'm using the Swift Sirocco 2 130gr bullets with Vihtavuori N150 out of my Howa 1500 that I'm getting 2730fps with a SD of 2fps and an ES of I believe 7fps also that's consistently shooting between .25 to .5 inches. I've also used N140 in both Grendel and Creedmoor that I'm not getting the velocity I want but still getting extremely good accuracy and numbers. I haven't tried any of the 500 series powders yet but will be in the future. Their stuff is expensive especially these days but so far everything I've tried has given me such good results that basically all I've had to do is just adjust my powder until I get the velocity I'm looking for. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Thanks testing some 6.5 bullets. I just assembled a 6.5C AR-308 and have yet to shoot it. Hopefully it stacks them on top of each other like my 7-08 AR-308.
OK, so if I'm missing something please tell me. From my interpretation of the data, 43.7 grains of powder, CCI primer gave you a spike in the plateau. You got 2700 fps and seems to be at the sweet spot (center of a harmonic*), if I were tuning a resonate cavity (radio shiznit*) that's where I'd go. It's no at the peak of powder, so no compression to worry about and might be a spot worth investigating. Now, I'm not a precision rifle shooter and don't even play one on TV, but my electronics background drew me to this spot.
Hey Johnny, I just caught wind of the new YT guidelines. I hope they don't shut down this channel, but if they do, what video platform will you be using? I love your content and would like to continue watching your videos.
AR-10 6.5 CM with 18" Criterion barrel here, velocity of 2597 fps with 140 gr Barnes Match Burners and 42 gr of H4350, Lapua SR primer cases, CCI BR-4 primers. I found the gun shot best with a shorter seating depth 2.74" OAl. I also found a huge difference in how the gun ran/shot when I added a JP High Pressure bolt plus it did not tear up brass as much with that bolt. Three five shot groups, shot back to back, that averaged .76" at 100 yards. The gun will stay on 12" steel at 600 yards no problem, hope to try at longer range in future.
Generally you want to be in the middle of a flat velocity node, with the BR-4 at 43.5 seems to put you in a good flat node. Also when looking at the flat nodes, usually you should see another node within a 3% increase in powder. I would ignore the group size for now and base the decision on the flat nodes and start playing the COAL at +/- 0.003".
If you are 0.150” off of the lands, does 0.003” difference show up on the target? I used 130 grain Bergers and got very good results. I arbitrarily used 0.013~0.015” off the lands in similar cartridge, the 6.5X47 Lapua. I am using a single shot bolt gun so magazine length doesn’t apply. Also, I like the looks of Johnny’s Wilson dies but I am using Whidden Gun Works dies. Whidden chambered the barrel and their chambering reamers and die reamers are coordinated with each other. There is no choice in brass since Lapua is the only one who makes 6.5X47 brass. I also used a 0.288” neck bushing. I do get a small amount of run out about equal to the variation in neck thickness. I could improve that by neck turning but it probably isn’t really necessary.
If you ever have that barrel out, its not a bad idea to take a chipstick with some 800 grit or a round ceramic small stone and knock the sharp points off of the lugs in the barrel extension. I'm regretting not doing it in my last BA barrel, as i'm now bedded in and getting the beaver tooth marks on my necks.
I had my Forster honed to .2885 and it's working great in a bolt rifle. Seems about perfect for Peterson and Starline brass. Might want to go smaller to .287 for a gas gun.
Use a long drop tube to get the powder packed down better, and seat the bullet out a bit. I think the best compression is when it is just barely starting to compress, but not enough to push the bullet out. Semi-autos need good neck tension too, might go up on that. I wonder if the barrel extension could not be stoned a bit on the place where the neck drags by, to reduce the gouge? Maybe there is a little burr there. You can definitely waste a lot of time fooling around on the bench. For long range loads you want low standard deviation on the velocity. Group size ain't everything. Get a good enough load and go with it. Group size is not a very good measure of accuracy. Try using radial standard deviation if possible - make all your shots count, not just the two outliers.
Found a load for the creemore(6.5). 150 Mosley partition and h4350. Try it, you’ll like it. If possible, set the bullet .030 off the rifillings. One hole!
Since you’re not compressed with that 43.7 grain load, I’d mess with overall length. Start at 2.800” and work down .003” until you hit the accuracy node.
Those two parallel scratches on the case mouth (@ 33:12) looks like a problem for reloading or brass life. Can you polish the inside of the barrel extension or something to fix that problem?
I struggled and struggled with my AR-10 6.5 Creedmoor. I can get it to shoot decently for about 20 rounds then accuracy would go. I found the only bullet that shot worth a darn was the 130 hybrid with H4350. It's darn near a duplicate load to the federal load. I even swapped out barrels to a Criterion. It shot okay but it's the last gun I grab in my safe.
One of my shooting buddies has an AR10 in 6.5, and he can't get his to shoot as well as he would like, either. I decided a couple of weeks ago that for my purposes, an AR is just not a precision rifle, JRB's successes notwithstanding. It just seems to me that it takes a lot less time and components (which translates to $$) to get a bolt rifle to shoot well. So, all of my uppers in various calibers went up on Gunbroker, with the exception of my M4 upper, which has its own dedicated lower, and my 3-gun rifle, also in 5.56. I already have a bolt gun in 6.5 Grendel, and it shot great right out of the box. It's a Howa 1500 mini action. So, I'm going to take the money I get for the uppers, and buy a couple more of those, and replace the AR uppers in 6mm ARC and 244 Valkyrie with those. Light-recoiling, accurate 1000-yard rifles, which is what I want.
@@tuckthefide74 Criterion barrels are hand lapped, so I surprised it took that long to come in. I hope it's the same for my 6mm ARC. It's been shooting good (.7"-.8") and I have about 200 rounds through it. Any better and it will be a real tack driver. 😎
@@rustynut1967 I tried load after load to get it to shoot under an inch then one day it decided it wanted to be good so I was finally happy. The only issue is it being so very over gassed
@@tjh44961 I had an SR25 Enhanced Match Carbine with a ball dimpled barrel that would shoot one hole. It cost a small fortune though. JP has outstanding accuracy with their ar10s and Larue PredatOBR can be ridiculous. I guess I wanted to see if I could build a version. I should've went with a Proof barrel and their CAMGAS system. I have a Proof 6.5 Grendel on an ar15 and it is stupid accurate. I am happy with the Criterion now. I ordered the matching JP bolt and put it in a JP full mass BCG. It is just a lot of force to try and regulate. I had to go with a Sprinco extra extra power spring and heavy buffer to tame it, especially suppressed.
I wonder from which hat they pulled 2.677". Oh, 68 mm. With that length, there is .308" in the case *plus* the .240" boattail, so maybe go longer? Also, the N550 powder seems to be a little less bulky.
Keep at it Johnny and good luck deer hunting you takeing the 223 or 308 . Thanks showing that press off and different powder how would u compare that to stayball 6.5?
I would go with the length. I have always thought that closer to the barrel is better. with that said, my opinion and a $1.50 will get you a large coffee at any C store.
you want to narrow things down but still used rem primers that you found to get pierced under high pressures? maybe watch your own playlist to find out that you settled on cci41 primers. was the brass annealed? might explain the crunchy ones. really glad to see a 6.5cm video, its been too long! hope this helps.
@@sapago4166 had to watch the video again to find the spot where he mentions the brass being annealed but doesnt explain why he would use a primer that gave him problems in the past.
@@sherrypulec1449 It's true that he doesn't elaborate beyond saying that it was the primer used in the load data. That being said, it *is* the primer used in the load data. I don't recall the exact circumstances around him blowing primers, but it typically means you are radically over pressure and need to step your load down instead of reaching for a tougher primer.
Previous comment referring to neck sizing with Wilson die. I bump shoulders in a separate Redding "body die" as they refer to instead of calling them bump die.
Oh, what suppressor r u using here? Looks like OSS? Btw, keep us posted on the deer hunt! Loved seeing your (2019?) hunt video! My bro and I tagged out in Oregon. Both my bro and I got an 8 point (west coast 3x3 w/eye guards).
Hey jrb I always look forward to your videos. I have a very similar setup with the 24" barrel. Mine is beating the crap out of my brass. Would you recommend the slr adjustable gas block to slow the carrier down? Keep up the content, even the idiot raising chickens is great 👍
I built a JP LRP-07 clone using their VMOS BCG instead of their LMOS BCG since I only shoot it suppressed. I run their SCS H2 buffer and their AGB, but I was still having issues with premature bolt unlock and not locking back on last round. I ended up having to put a tungsten weight on the SCS making it an H3 buffer and that completely fixed my issues! No more bolt unlocking prematurely and dirtying up my brass and locks back on last round everytime now. It took a lot of work and testing/researching but finally figured it out after JP rifles TH-cam channel posted a video answering all the questions I had asked in one of their previous videos which was either on purpose or just perfect timing.
My impression is that people use arbor presses because they are supposed to be more consistent, but I've been wondering what the functional difference is between them and a top down press like the Lee APP
The arbor press dies are fully supported chambers unlike many seating dies and thus the inherent advantages to alignment. However the truly next step is when they add a force pack to measure seating force and sort loaded rounds one last time for seating force in an effort to further reduce chance of fliers at distance.
Greetings from NY Johnny! Could you please explain to me why would you use an arbor press instead of (well in my case) a Redding TR7. I don’t see the difference. In accuracy or convenience.
Where those seating does get freaky is when you use a force pack on the arbor press and sort bullets/loaded rounds into groups by seating force. This is in an effort to minimize fliers from the group especially at distance
I almost vote find a COL before messing with neck tension as I feel COL will have more of a play in group sized then neck tension will. So if you dial COL in first then neck tension maybe we’ll have some stupid small groups.
I have hoped someone would do the test but I think you may find that you may end up with a different combo to tune the neck tension not so much that one is necessarily much better. In super accurate high end bench guns light seems better but even F-Class guys are returning to no turn necks …
If you redo this start 0.030” off the lands/mag length and redo the BR-4s. Then look for the flattest spot which is not the peak you were looking at between two numbers. Then seating depth test.. try 3 you could seat long and then seat them as you go at the shooting bench. 3 may not reveal an issue but you can’t shrink bad groups so you could save ammo by not shooting the remainders of a bad group. As all would have the same charge at this point just seat them to the next test depth and continue on.. once you find a couple good one in a row seat just inside the long group to verify.
Unless you are into serious LR competition or just OCD beyond help DONT WASTE your time and money on a half dozen powders, primers and bullets. Just try two or three combinations of products and loads. I'm betting somewhere in those combinations is a load for a given weapon.
42.9-43.5 BR-4 really looks fine and where I would pick! Why the BR-4 is simply the plateaus seen in the velocity data for a node. Eye test sure but chart is where the gold is
43.1 with the br4 looks good to me. It's right there in the tight velocity node area. If it won't shoot a good group he can then tinker with bullet depth to fine tune the load
I have a question in regards to the feed ramps scraping the projectile. When chambering the round is there a way to stop this. Is the even a issue? I would think that scrapes along the front of projectile would cause accuracy issues.
My videos have been posted late the last two weeks, so let's go a little early on this one. Sorry about that folks!
No biggy everyone has a life. Absolutely love the creedmor videos and when you use different equipment
No worries.
We appreciate your efforts,,
My highlight of Sunday JRB vid
They’re always worth with the wait Johnny!
What I want for Christmas....A don't blow your face off t-shirt
I’d be in for one too! XL please with a chest pocket. Lol
Wilson should link to this video as part of their instructions. Thank you for explaining everything well.
Loaded 127 Grain Barnes LRX in 6.5CM this weekend. Looking forward to taking a deer with it.
Hey Johnny, According to your velocity chart 43.1 is the best place with the BR4 primer. You want the curve to be as flat as possible on either side of the chosen charge weight. 43.7 has relatively large speed changes on either side. I wouldn't pick it without a good reason.
I totally agree M M. I'm finding that once I find the node I can then use a tuner to get the groups in shape. Good work here Johnny!
Just got a deer today with my grandfather's .243 Winchester model 70 he bought for woodchucks. Hit the buck with the Hornady SST 95gr. Went about 20 yards and dropped dead.
I started working up a load for my .243 with an SST today. Evidently my rifle doesn’t so much like the SST with H4350. What powder are you using for it? I have RL16 I was wanting to try as well.
@@craignmz5264 I am using H4831
Love my 243 win. Running nosler Silver Ballistics tips in factory winchesters ammo. I load some same noslee balistic Silvertips with Hornady brass in cci primers with stayball 6.5. The other day to try.
I sure do enjoy your videos. I hope you never tire of doing this stuff. Thank you.
Its about time someone makes a vid on the Vihta n555
You got the best reload videos
I don't have time to watch this anytime soon but I wanted you to know that you're valued and appreciated. You make great stuff Johnny.
Late reply - just got back from deer camp - but this is a wealth of information!
I, for one, am happy you included the last five shots of each primer type. It'll be a good reference point for the point of impact of your groups as you continue to test and tinker.
Sitting here loading up some 6.5 creedmoor right now with 140gr Sierra Game Changer TGK and H4350. Saw your video notification pop up and got stoked. 👍🏼
.190" jump seems like a lot. From what I've read on the hybrids they like a longer jump, but that seems like a huge amount.
Yay!! More creedmoor videos! My favorite videos to watch because I load for 6.5 creedmoor and 300 blk
The Federal/Berger Hybrid 130gr worked really well in my ADM 6.5 which has a Criterion barrel.
I've used Wilson bushing dies for 10 years and own a bunch of Redding bushing dies which are also nice. The Wilson bushing has a neat feature. If flipped over, ie numbers down, it is about .0003-4 ten thousandths tighter due to a 3 degree taper intentionally machined into it. Sometimes your measurements indicate an uneven number bushing but since they are not available unless you send one in and have custom size made you can flip it if you think the tension is a slightly light and possible get one that Little Red Riding Hood would call "juuust right". I do it quite a bit with new lots of brass which can vary a bit. Right now I have a friends 6.5 Creedmoor Bergara and new box of Lapua brass and I had best results when I flipped the bushing in a die I use for a batch of my own Lapua brass, which is perfect numbers up.
"Or you can use a hammer."
-Johnny
The N500 Series of powders are among the hottest burning powders made, they eat up throats and barrels in quick fashion, second by R#17
YUP,.. N-150 and N-160 are, much Better 6.5 Creed powders for, the 130 -140's, although,. slightly, slower velocities than, N555
I can’t easily say I’m not at this point. I got into reloading so I would gain the ability to make my own ammo. In a way I’m glad I haven’t gotten sucked down this rabbit hole like I have with some other things. I like reloading but haven’t yet gotten the precision bug yet. If I had a property I could shoot on I think it would be a different story. Having to go to the range every time I want to test something really kills it for me.
Johnny, I have been reloading since 1994 and you make me feel like a total amateur. Dood, u got skills I need - I could use a credit card my wife doesnt know exists also...
Love your videos, Johnny. keep on going !
Howdy Johnny, not sure if someone else here said this, there has to be an actual Machinist in here. If you set that Arbor Press up so that you finish the work/press, and the arm is parallel to the ground (you are pushing straight down on the arm) you will find it much easier to use.
You may still have some slip on heavily compressed loads dependent on neck tension, but it still works easier
Hey there my fellow reloaders, great vid as usual, love to see the 6.5 lead free options aren't as bad as originally expected out of the ar10 even with the he possibility of the rounds moving whist being actioned.
End result looks more than sufficient for any ethical hunting distance.
Got one myself. All Aero Precision, 24" heavy barrel. Weighs 14lbs scoped. Sweet gun.
Very interesting video. I used 130 grain Berger OTM bullets in Lapua 6.5x47 for a 600 yd. prone match Saturday. The 6.5x47 Lapua holds less powder than the Creedmore but I have a 30” Krieger barrel compared to your 20” barrel. It was a team match so I had a wind coach. The rounds landed on call. I think the Bergers shot very well indeed. I used 39.5 grains of H4350. The first match I shot rather badly so so all I can say is that the shots went where the trigger broke. The second match I managed 13X indicating to me that the gun and the ammo shot very well and any misses were my fault. It also indicates my wind coach did a good job. The bad news: Berger bullets now cost over 50 cents/round. Every target shooters ideal is a bullet this good that doesn’t cost so much.
On the AR platform you should check your neck tension by releasing the bolt and then re-measure your C.O.A.L. to make sure they are not growing. Love watching your videos. Just remember.... a little strike with the hammer will fix anything, lol
Love your content buddy. Especially the AR 10 stuff.
I already have 50 different loads in 6 different calibers using a dozen different powder, primers and projectiles. I THINK I MAY HAVE A PROBLEM AND YOUR NOT HELPING!
Love me some JRB! It’s like your doing the Lords work and I’m a disciple!
Good video. I must be lucky, I shoot the PPU (Privi) 120's and Hornady 129 SST's and have had great luck with my Savage 12FV. The PPU 120's are a cheap ($.27) OTM bullet and the SST's speak for themselves. Pushed by a mid charge of StaBall 6.5, Win 748 or IMR 4350 I get top velocity's and 3/8" groups at 100 yards using just a set of standard Hornady dies. I do spend a huge amount of time on my brass. In our current shortage I use Federal 308 Brass and resize it to 6.5 Creedmoor, deburr the flash holes and turn the necks. These rounds just work in anything I fire them in so far and a half dozen whitetails have fallen to them in both mine and my family's rifles, most times DRT at ranges out to 200 yards or so. On the range 300 yard groups if I do my part average 2", maybe slightly over out of my Savage, best I can do with the 6x24x50 Vortex Tactical glass on top but the performance of the loads has been just great and won't break the bank.
One way to deal with compressed loads and arbor dies: 1. Seat bullet only a quarter of the way. 2. Flip entire assembly upside down, letting the powder settle around the boattail and finish the seating to full depth.
Vihtavuori has become my go to powder for the Grendel and the Creedmoor... With the 120gr Gold Dots and Vihtavuori N135 in my 6.5 Grendel I'm getting 2520fps out of a 20 inch Proof Research match barrel with a SD of 3fps and an ES of 7fps that's consistently shooting into .5 to .75 inches. My Creedmoor I'm using the Swift Sirocco 2 130gr bullets with Vihtavuori N150 out of my Howa 1500 that I'm getting 2730fps with a SD of 2fps and an ES of I believe 7fps also that's consistently shooting between .25 to .5 inches. I've also used N140 in both Grendel and Creedmoor that I'm not getting the velocity I want but still getting extremely good accuracy and numbers. I haven't tried any of the 500 series powders yet but will be in the future. Their stuff is expensive especially these days but so far everything I've tried has given me such good results that basically all I've had to do is just adjust my powder until I get the velocity I'm looking for. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Johnny, would love to see the new 169gr SMK and 4064 in 308 someday. Great video I always enjoy watching.
Question: when settling the powder in a full case is there a reason not to just vibrate it and let it pack like you would buffer in a shotshell?
Thanks testing some 6.5 bullets. I just assembled a 6.5C AR-308 and have yet to shoot it. Hopefully it stacks them on top of each other like my 7-08 AR-308.
OK, so if I'm missing something please tell me. From my interpretation of the data, 43.7 grains of powder, CCI primer gave you a spike in the plateau. You got 2700 fps and seems to be at the sweet spot (center of a harmonic*), if I were tuning a resonate cavity (radio shiznit*) that's where I'd go. It's no at the peak of powder, so no compression to worry about and might be a spot worth investigating. Now, I'm not a precision rifle shooter and don't even play one on TV, but my electronics background drew me to this spot.
Thank you for sharing your research
Thank goodness I've been waiting for you to make a video of this powder, I've had 2 pounds for awhile. Want to work a load for 6crdmr 105 bergers
Hey Johnny, I just caught wind of the new YT guidelines. I hope they don't shut down this channel, but if they do, what video platform will you be using? I love your content and would like to continue watching your videos.
Trust the shot marker ladder! Overall length next!. If you adjust neck tension double check bullet grip when closing ar bolt
AR-10 6.5 CM with 18" Criterion barrel here, velocity of 2597 fps with 140 gr Barnes Match Burners and 42 gr of H4350, Lapua SR primer cases, CCI BR-4 primers. I found the gun shot best with a shorter seating depth 2.74" OAl. I also found a huge difference in how the gun ran/shot when I added a JP High Pressure bolt plus it did not tear up brass as much with that bolt. Three five shot groups, shot back to back, that averaged .76" at 100 yards. The gun will stay on 12" steel at 600 yards no problem, hope to try at longer range in future.
Unicorn dust powder! Nice!
Generally you want to be in the middle of a flat velocity node, with the BR-4 at 43.5 seems to put you in a good flat node. Also when looking at the flat nodes, usually you should see another node within a 3% increase in powder.
I would ignore the group size for now and base the decision on the flat nodes and start playing the COAL at +/- 0.003".
If you are 0.150” off of the lands, does 0.003” difference show up on the target? I used 130 grain Bergers and got very good results. I arbitrarily used 0.013~0.015” off the lands in similar cartridge, the 6.5X47 Lapua. I am using a single shot bolt gun so magazine length doesn’t apply. Also, I like the looks of Johnny’s Wilson dies but I am using Whidden Gun Works dies. Whidden chambered the barrel and their chambering reamers and die reamers are coordinated with each other. There is no choice in brass since Lapua is the only one who makes 6.5X47 brass. I also used a 0.288” neck bushing. I do get a small amount of run out about equal to the variation in neck thickness. I could improve that by neck turning but it probably isn’t really necessary.
43.7 looks really good cci primer is giving better overall results.
If you ever have that barrel out, its not a bad idea to take a chipstick with some 800 grit or a round ceramic small stone and knock the sharp points off of the lugs in the barrel extension. I'm regretting not doing it in my last BA barrel, as i'm now bedded in and getting the beaver tooth marks on my necks.
I had my Forster honed to .2885 and it's working great in a bolt rifle. Seems about perfect for Peterson and Starline brass. Might want to go smaller to .287 for a gas gun.
Use a long drop tube to get the powder packed down better, and seat the bullet out a bit. I think the best compression is when it is just barely starting to compress, but not enough to push the bullet out. Semi-autos need good neck tension too, might go up on that.
I wonder if the barrel extension could not be stoned a bit on the place where the neck drags by, to reduce the gouge? Maybe there is a little burr there.
You can definitely waste a lot of time fooling around on the bench. For long range loads you want low standard deviation on the velocity. Group size ain't everything. Get a good enough load and go with it.
Group size is not a very good measure of accuracy. Try using radial standard deviation if possible - make all your shots count, not just the two outliers.
Found a load for the creemore(6.5). 150 Mosley partition and h4350. Try it, you’ll like it. If possible, set the bullet .030 off the rifillings. One hole!
Did you notice the flex in the upper part of the ram when you set the bullet.
Why is it every time I see a box of primers I get all excited.
Since you’re not compressed with that 43.7 grain load, I’d mess with overall length. Start at 2.800” and work down .003” until you hit the accuracy node.
Those two parallel scratches on the case mouth (@ 33:12) looks like a problem for reloading or brass life. Can you polish the inside of the barrel extension or something to fix that problem?
I struggled and struggled with my AR-10 6.5 Creedmoor. I can get it to shoot decently for about 20 rounds then accuracy would go. I found the only bullet that shot worth a darn was the 130 hybrid with H4350. It's darn near a duplicate load to the federal load. I even swapped out barrels to a Criterion. It shot okay but it's the last gun I grab in my safe.
Took 200 rounds for my Criterion to smooth out. I get 1/2" at 100 with 39 of Varget with 130 hybrids
One of my shooting buddies has an AR10 in 6.5, and he can't get his to shoot as well as he would like, either. I decided a couple of weeks ago that for my purposes, an AR is just not a precision rifle, JRB's successes notwithstanding. It just seems to me that it takes a lot less time and components (which translates to $$) to get a bolt rifle to shoot well. So, all of my uppers in various calibers went up on Gunbroker, with the exception of my M4 upper, which has its own dedicated lower, and my 3-gun rifle, also in 5.56. I already have a bolt gun in 6.5 Grendel, and it shot great right out of the box. It's a Howa 1500 mini action. So, I'm going to take the money I get for the uppers, and buy a couple more of those, and replace the AR uppers in 6mm ARC and 244 Valkyrie with those. Light-recoiling, accurate 1000-yard rifles, which is what I want.
@@tuckthefide74 Criterion barrels are hand lapped, so I surprised it took that long to come in. I hope it's the same for my 6mm ARC. It's been shooting good (.7"-.8") and I have about 200 rounds through it. Any better and it will be a real tack driver. 😎
@@rustynut1967 I tried load after load to get it to shoot under an inch then one day it decided it wanted to be good so I was finally happy. The only issue is it being so very over gassed
@@tjh44961 I had an SR25 Enhanced Match Carbine with a ball dimpled barrel that would shoot one hole. It cost a small fortune though. JP has outstanding accuracy with their ar10s and Larue PredatOBR can be ridiculous. I guess I wanted to see if I could build a version. I should've went with a Proof barrel and their CAMGAS system. I have a Proof 6.5 Grendel on an ar15 and it is stupid accurate. I am happy with the Criterion now. I ordered the matching JP bolt and put it in a JP full mass BCG. It is just a lot of force to try and regulate. I had to go with a Sprinco extra extra power spring and heavy buffer to tame it, especially suppressed.
I wonder from which hat they pulled 2.677". Oh, 68 mm. With that length, there is .308" in the case *plus* the .240" boattail, so maybe go longer? Also, the N550 powder seems to be a little less bulky.
N555 is a very good powder!!!!!
Keep at it Johnny and good luck deer hunting you takeing the 223 or 308 .
Thanks showing that press off and different powder how would u compare that to stayball 6.5?
Try the 130gr with 43.1 gr IMR 4451 = 2816 ft/sec in a 22 in AR10 ODIN WORKS barrel. coal 2.800 with hornady brass, cci larger rifle primer.
I need a set of those dies just to stare at them
Holly cow he's early
It did look like the powder strung back when compressing the load, on that zoomed in picture, very light, and might not be what was really happening.
Thanks Johnny!
Awesome Video! What is that target program?!?!?! Its epic!
Factory ammo with this bullet from federal was OAL 2.780
I've been seeing alot of this powder on the shelf. I guess people don't know what its for. Ill have to try it in my 7mm-08
I would go with the length. I have always thought that closer to the barrel is better. with that said, my opinion and a $1.50 will get you a large coffee at any C store.
you want to narrow things down but still used rem primers that you found to get pierced under high pressures? maybe watch your own playlist to find out that you settled on cci41 primers. was the brass annealed? might explain the crunchy ones. really glad to see a 6.5cm video, its been too long! hope this helps.
The brass was annealed and he used the rem primers because they were listed in the load data
@@sapago4166 had to watch the video again to find the spot where he mentions the brass being annealed but doesnt explain why he would use a primer that gave him problems in the past.
@@sherrypulec1449 It's true that he doesn't elaborate beyond saying that it was the primer used in the load data.
That being said, it *is* the primer used in the load data. I don't recall the exact circumstances around him blowing primers, but it typically means you are radically over pressure and need to step your load down instead of reaching for a tougher primer.
Johnny, are you using the JP high pressure bolt or the standard Aero Precision bolt?
JP high pressure bolt
Previous comment referring to neck sizing with Wilson die. I bump shoulders in a separate Redding "body die" as they refer to instead of calling them bump die.
My next step would be to load 5 at 43.2 and confirm they are all within 10fps of each other. If es and SD is good then it's on to seating depth test.
6mmGT in a bolt gun/AR?
Less recoil than 6.5 Creed and more velocity than 6mm ARC/PPC.
Thanks for sharing your vids.
L
Oh, what suppressor r u using here? Looks like OSS?
Btw, keep us posted on the deer hunt! Loved seeing your (2019?) hunt video! My bro and I tagged out in Oregon. Both my bro and I got an 8 point (west coast 3x3 w/eye guards).
Think its a SiCo Omega.
Get z EC tuner brake it helps me a lot on load development time.
Johnny, ever messed with a brass catcher?
Hey jrb I always look forward to your videos. I have a very similar setup with the 24" barrel. Mine is beating the crap out of my brass. Would you recommend the slr adjustable gas block to slow the carrier down? Keep up the content, even the idiot raising chickens is great 👍
In my experience the SLR is good, but you need to play with the adjustment screw occasionally to keep it from seizing
I built a JP LRP-07 clone using their VMOS BCG instead of their LMOS BCG since I only shoot it suppressed.
I run their SCS H2 buffer and their AGB, but I was still having issues with premature bolt unlock and not locking back on last round.
I ended up having to put a tungsten weight on the SCS making it an H3 buffer and that completely fixed my issues! No more bolt unlocking prematurely and dirtying up my brass and locks back on last round everytime now.
It took a lot of work and testing/researching but finally figured it out after JP rifles TH-cam channel posted a video answering all the questions I had asked in one of their previous videos which was either on purpose or just perfect timing.
No more 6.5 videos?
what application are you using for your charts?
Are you still doing Twitch streams?
reduce neck tension and then see how overall length stays put on higher loads for powder.
Starlinr is great however the necks necks are quite tick
My impression is that people use arbor presses because they are supposed to be more consistent, but I've been wondering what the functional difference is between them and a top down press like the Lee APP
The arbor press dies are fully supported chambers unlike many seating dies and thus the inherent advantages to alignment.
However the truly next step is when they add a force pack to measure seating force and sort loaded rounds one last time for seating force in an effort to further reduce chance of fliers at distance.
Also they are easy to take to the range to loaded long and then refresh the necks down to seating depth for better consistency on range day….
Greetings from NY Johnny! Could you please explain to me why would you use an arbor press instead of (well in my case) a Redding TR7. I don’t see the difference. In accuracy or convenience.
Where those seating does get freaky is when you use a force pack on the arbor press and sort bullets/loaded rounds into groups by seating force. This is in an effort to minimize fliers from the group especially at distance
@@ewetho
Thanks Big E. I’m still confused. I got to more research. Thanks for taking the time.
Some say you would at 600+ or something?
I think an electric toothbrush is the modern powder settling tool...
Yep. just lightly place your finger over the Brass so the Kernels don't jump out.
AYE FOO WEN U GONNA STREAM ON TWITCH AGAIN???
What app are you using for tracking your impacts at the range??
Shot marker taret system. Not a phone app.
With all your recording of settings. You have no powder testing.
Bleed off doesn’t work with 308 at least mine didn’t . Went back to Slr sentry 7 and all is good again
I almost vote find a COL before messing with neck tension as I feel COL will have more of a play in group sized then neck tension will. So if you dial COL in first then neck tension maybe we’ll have some stupid small groups.
I have hoped someone would do the test but I think you may find that you may end up with a different combo to tune the neck tension not so much that one is necessarily much better. In super accurate high end bench guns light seems better but even F-Class guys are returning to no turn necks …
Is this a a20inch barrel or 22 inch?
Lady bug on the funnel.
How do you check for pressure sings
Wouldn’t that diagonal stringing be consistent with left to right wind gusts
horizontal stringing would be. Vertical would be from powder charge, neck tension & case capacity
If you redo this start 0.030” off the lands/mag length and redo the BR-4s. Then look for the flattest spot which is not the peak you were looking at between two numbers. Then seating depth test.. try 3 you could seat long and then seat them as you go at the shooting bench. 3 may not reveal an issue but you can’t shrink bad groups so you could save ammo by not shooting the remainders of a bad group. As all would have the same charge at this point just seat them to the next test depth and continue on.. once you find a couple good one in a row seat just inside the long group to verify.
BA and Aero are the same company.
"I'm 10 thousandths long." Too much information, my guy.
WOOHOO!!!
Feet per size?
Finally
Unless you are into serious LR competition or just OCD beyond help DONT WASTE your time and money on a half dozen powders, primers and bullets. Just try two or three combinations of products and loads. I'm betting somewhere in those combinations is a load for a given weapon.
.........with a wind change. ( between grp 1 and grp 2 )
42.9-43.5 BR-4 really looks fine and where I would pick! Why the BR-4 is simply the plateaus seen in the velocity data for a node.
Eye test sure but chart is where the gold is
43.1 with the br4 looks good to me. It's right there in the tight velocity node area. If it won't shoot a good group he can then tinker with bullet depth to fine tune the load
Anyone hunt deer sized game? with the 130 OTM Hybrid Tactical?
I have a question in regards to the feed ramps scraping the projectile. When chambering the round is there a way to stop this. Is the even a issue? I would think that scrapes along the front of projectile would cause accuracy issues.