The post Michael Bennetton was totally different. They went from champions to also rans overnight. Only a single win after he left and until Renault took over.
It's fun to watch the commercials and try to find out where the person recording this was living... The auto dealer commercial says West Palm Beach - that's in Florida! Where I live!
That has nothing to so with a traction control. In these days there were motor electronics that optimised the power of the engine. As a traction Control works at the wheel, and this elrctronic did not- this was no traction control, even if the effect was the Same. Thats why Traction Control was allowed again two years later-because the engineers always found way to have a traction control, without being a traction control. Anyway at 4:50 there is no Crackling of a traction control. Not at all.
Is that serious? In F1 the line between cheating and innovating is thin. One say you innovate, for the others thats cheating. And that has not changed at all. Some say Mercedes is cheating continuously since 2014...The rules are written that way. The only thing that has changed is the attitude of the teams. In the 90's all that rumours were spread in the media, untill the teams recognized that this is not only damaging the other team, but F1 as a whole. So such accusations are not made in public and easily, like teams used to do.
@@fam.hunger5244 you for real? They got booted our of F1 because Nelson Piqet crashed deliberately so Alonso could win......that's not exploiting loopholes in the rules...
@@GB-vn1tfBefore you even want to have a say, you should first be clear about what this is all about, which you obviously have no idea about. We're talking about the Benetton team in the 1990s. That's what this documentary is about and in this context it's about cheating. Not about 2008 and the successor team Renault. And even if we take that - McLaren engaged in industrial espionage and stole Ferrari's entire intellectual property and technology, which is not much better. Likewise, Piquet was not the first driver to crash on purpose to give his team an advantage. It was just the only case where it became openly known. Several drivers have more or less openly said over the years that such things happen more often in F1 than you might think, such as Sainz in 2022 and the confirmation of deliberate crashes. Both are certainly very extreme cases, but not isolated incidents. In 1996, someone broke into a Mercedes truck and took photos of the intake tract and system... But regarding the actual topic, it simply shows very little expertise when you make such comments about cheating, sorry. In F1, the limits of legality have always been pushed to the maximum and sometimes even exceeded. In addition, some of the rules are deliberately vague. And there is hardly a team here that has not been involved in something like this in one way or another. They all go to the maximum and the limit of the rules and sometimes even beyond. All of them. No one is better than the other. And there's no other way to win. Anyone who builds a car that is 100% within the rules is two seconds behind in F1. And this saying is not mine, but has been said by several F1 engineers such as John Barnard or James Allison.
@fam.hunger5244 sorry, but I cannot take someone seriously that conflated deliberately crashing to "limits of legality:? I've been watching F1 since the 1970s and am very knowledgeable of F1 since its beginning in 1950. So before you make stupid assumptions based on something in your head, as I only said Piquet cheated on orders of his team. The rest of you book, although accurate in the most is irrelevant to either anything I said or to the point that you eventually arrived at to dismiss as the rules being "deliberately vague", which is showing your ignorance as to cover every possibility would require a rule book so long, so precise in things that haven't been thought of that it would be impossible. Any innovation would be immediately stopped as working out what is legal or not is part of F1. I give you the fan car as exhibit #1 or third pedal in the Mclaren or even perhaps active suspension, traction control or even power steering. Those are the rules that are unclear and are exploited legally. Getting team orders to crash to get your teammate an advantage is not. If you cannot see that, or understand the differences then I'd suggest F1 is a little too complex for your brain to comprehend. As for your interpretation of other drivers "openly said" they've done the same is just that, your interpretation of what's been said. I've seen drivers hold up others, parked their cars to cause red flags or even pretending they can't find a gear I their pit box to waste time for their teammate, amongst other things, but to crash deliberately as Piquet did? Name one example please.
Benetton in 2000 and 2001 season - owned by French /Renault/, based in Britain /in Enstone/, BUT licensed in Italy. Strange combination ! If Benetton had won a race, the Italian anthem would have been played on podium.
something i will always wonder is how the people involved directly with the technology feel/think about themselves and the team knowing they were cheating with some tech on the car?
In reference to `94 i gather..... What we don`t know is how many other teams had hidden forbidden technology at the time. Engineers will always push the boundries and try to break them even. This is how ruthless F1 is. If you can cheat and get away with it.... do it. Just like cyclists in France with all the dope scandals. Or footballers going down and trying to gain a freekick. There is so much money envolved in these sports that the line between right and wrong gets blurry sometimes......
Doesn't bother us because A) We're taking orders from above, and B) All teams are at it. That's my experience from having worked in 5 teams. Wonder no more ;-)
The thing here is - many engineers today confirm that Benetton did NOT cheat in 1994. And no one cares about that today so there is no reason to Tell lies. Ross Brawn explained where these rumours came from. Patrick Head Confirmed this story and the politics behind it. Frank Dernie also CONFIRMED that Benetton did not cheat. So a lot of this cheating stuff is often politics. The slower team accuses the faster Team is cheating... and F1 is about exploiting boundaries. So there is a small line between cheating and being a Genius for pushing the boundaries as far as it is allowed.
@@michaelastockbauer672 Absolutely true Michaela. The scrutineers looked at the mass damper just as they did things like X-wings, Gordon Murray's fan car, the twin chassis Lotus 88, Brawn's double diffuser et al. If they had believed it illegal, the car would not have passed scrutineering and would not have been allowed to race. Did it give them a significant advantage? Of course it did! But that is not the same as being illegal... just ask the folks who had to watch Chapman's Lotus 78 disappear into the distance...
if Benetton held Italian nationality from 1996 to 2001, why then since 1998 until 2001 four times in a row British flag was placed above Benetton pit garage during French GP instead of Italian flag ? Italian flag was put only during 1996 and 1997 French GP.
All These guys who come up with that cheating bullshit - first inform yourself before you talk bullshit! It's Confirmed that Benetton did not cheat in 1994. By almost anyone who was in F1 in that period. And it is also know by now why these rumours came up and from whom...so please inform yourself before you just repeat the stupid bullshit that clearly can only come from a person without actual and deeper knowledge of F1.
Those cars don't change on tenth as much year to year or even decade to decade as you F1 fools say they do and think they do if you're the typical "F1 fan" who couldn't change oil in a lawn mower if his life depended on it.
Shit. There aren't any fucking "rules" or "regulations" in F1 that aren't bought and sold and made up on the spot depending on who bids the highest. Its a giant scam with government-subsidized and really GOVERNMENT-OWNED AND TAX-PAYER FINANCED "companies" hiring an endless succession of poor saps from foreign countries to drive those deathtraps once they manage to SURVIVE a couple of "lower" levels of "racing" in Europe without being paralyzed or in a coma. Fucking death traps built by fools owned by governments funneling the cash through "private companies" and driven by stupid kids who will be lucky to "survive" a 2-year "career" and have about as much chance of becoming "legends" as I do. Fucking criminal is what the whole fucking mess is.
All great sports are cheating. When they host the World Cup don`t think for a moment there is no cheating going on. Matches are fixed to fit the best possible outcome for money purposes. Boxing same thing. Cycling, all (or most) using drugs and avoiding getting caught. Sports with big money going round are all fixed to a degree. Formula 1 is no different.
Usually people would complain about you not cutting out the commercials, but I really enjoyed these commercials from the 90s. Brings me back
This really makes me miss the good old days of the Discovery Channel.
+Tommy Bristol True that its all acting now.
Thank you for uploading this
It’s as if tv producers pander to, no, create more stupidity in the already stupid populace.
the colourful team with performance that attracts many people to watch F1
i enjoyed the old adverts, usually hate that bit.
The post Michael Bennetton was totally different. They went from champions to also rans overnight. Only a single win after he left and until Renault took over.
It's fun to watch the commercials and try to find out where the person recording this was living... The auto dealer commercial says West Palm Beach - that's in Florida! Where I live!
Is it me or at 4:50 can you hear the crackle of traction control, and this was 2 years before the ban was lifted...
GDH1981 In testing they can use traction control I believe.
That has nothing to so with a traction control. In these days there were motor electronics that optimised the power of the engine. As a traction Control works at the wheel, and this elrctronic did not- this was no traction control, even if the effect was the Same. Thats why Traction Control was allowed again two years later-because the engineers always found way to have a traction control, without being a traction control.
Anyway at 4:50 there is no Crackling of a traction control. Not at all.
I love old commercials
The good old days when teams were willing to cheat to win... bring that attitude back : )
Is that serious? In F1 the line between cheating and innovating is thin. One say you innovate, for the others thats cheating. And that has not changed at all. Some say Mercedes is cheating continuously since 2014...The rules are written that way. The only thing that has changed is the attitude of the teams. In the 90's all that rumours were spread in the media, untill the teams recognized that this is not only damaging the other team, but F1 as a whole. So such accusations are not made in public and easily, like teams used to do.
ferarri 2019 it’s back ^
@@fam.hunger5244 you for real? They got booted our of F1 because Nelson Piqet crashed deliberately so Alonso could win......that's not exploiting loopholes in the rules...
@@GB-vn1tfBefore you even want to have a say, you should first be clear about what this is all about, which you obviously have no idea about. We're talking about the Benetton team in the 1990s. That's what this documentary is about and in this context it's about cheating. Not about 2008 and the successor team Renault. And even if we take that - McLaren engaged in industrial espionage and stole Ferrari's entire intellectual property and technology, which is not much better. Likewise, Piquet was not the first driver to crash on purpose to give his team an advantage. It was just the only case where it became openly known. Several drivers have more or less openly said over the years that such things happen more often in F1 than you might think, such as Sainz in 2022 and the confirmation of deliberate crashes. Both are certainly very extreme cases, but not isolated incidents. In 1996, someone broke into a Mercedes truck and took photos of the intake tract and system... But regarding the actual topic, it simply shows very little expertise when you make such comments about cheating, sorry. In F1, the limits of legality have always been pushed to the maximum and sometimes even exceeded. In addition, some of the rules are deliberately vague. And there is hardly a team here that has not been involved in something like this in one way or another. They all go to the maximum and the limit of the rules and sometimes even beyond. All of them. No one is better than the other. And there's no other way to win. Anyone who builds a car that is 100% within the rules is two seconds behind in F1. And this saying is not mine, but has been said by several F1 engineers such as John Barnard or James Allison.
@fam.hunger5244 sorry, but I cannot take someone seriously that conflated deliberately crashing to "limits of legality:? I've been watching F1 since the 1970s and am very knowledgeable of F1 since its beginning in 1950. So before you make stupid assumptions based on something in your head, as I only said Piquet cheated on orders of his team. The rest of you book, although accurate in the most is irrelevant to either anything I said or to the point that you eventually arrived at to dismiss as the rules being "deliberately vague", which is showing your ignorance as to cover every possibility would require a rule book so long, so precise in things that haven't been thought of that it would be impossible. Any innovation would be immediately stopped as working out what is legal or not is part of F1. I give you the fan car as exhibit #1 or third pedal in the Mclaren or even perhaps active suspension, traction control or even power steering. Those are the rules that are unclear and are exploited legally. Getting team orders to crash to get your teammate an advantage is not. If you cannot see that, or understand the differences then I'd suggest F1 is a little too complex for your brain to comprehend. As for your interpretation of other drivers "openly said" they've done the same is just that, your interpretation of what's been said. I've seen drivers hold up others, parked their cars to cause red flags or even pretending they can't find a gear I their pit box to waste time for their teammate, amongst other things, but to crash deliberately as Piquet did? Name one example please.
8 cents a minute long distance. The old days.
Yes F1 used to be top class
The B199 !!!
Benetton in 2000 and 2001 season - owned by French /Renault/, based in Britain /in Enstone/, BUT licensed in Italy. Strange combination ! If Benetton had won a race, the Italian anthem would have been played on podium.
This is because Benetton was based on an English Formula 1 team, which had been bought by the Benetton family in 1986.
Money laundering at its finest =benetton
when discovery channel was real
something i will always wonder is how the people involved directly with the technology feel/think about themselves and the team knowing they were cheating with some tech on the car?
In reference to `94 i gather..... What we don`t know is how many other teams had hidden forbidden technology at the time. Engineers will always push the boundries and try to break them even. This is how ruthless F1 is. If you can cheat and get away with it.... do it. Just like cyclists in France with all the dope scandals. Or footballers going down and trying to gain a freekick. There is so much money envolved in these sports that the line between right and wrong gets blurry sometimes......
Doesn't bother us because A) We're taking orders from above, and B) All teams are at it. That's my experience from having worked in 5 teams. Wonder no more ;-)
The thing here is - many engineers today confirm that Benetton did NOT cheat in 1994. And no one cares about that today so there is no reason to Tell lies. Ross Brawn explained where these rumours came from. Patrick Head Confirmed this story and the politics behind it. Frank Dernie also CONFIRMED that Benetton did not cheat. So a lot of this cheating stuff is often politics. The slower team accuses the faster Team is cheating... and F1 is about exploiting boundaries. So there is a small line between cheating and being a Genius for pushing the boundaries as far as it is allowed.
@@michaelastockbauer672 Absolutely true Michaela. The scrutineers looked at the mass damper just as they did things like X-wings, Gordon Murray's fan car, the twin chassis Lotus 88, Brawn's double diffuser et al. If they had believed it illegal, the car would not have passed scrutineering and would not have been allowed to race.
Did it give them a significant advantage? Of course it did! But that is not the same as being illegal... just ask the folks who had to watch Chapman's Lotus 78 disappear into the distance...
after the tunnell, the half chicane.. Warz was saying "dont touch the chicane"..
Wait a min.. Senna, hopped those chicanes.. whaT???
Veyron640 Not purposely. That will damage the suspension almost invariably.
they forgot to talk about the forbidden traction control systems, and the cheat on the fuel valve that killed verstappen
Icaro Onofre lol
+Icaro Onofre Verstappen was not killed. He was slightly burned. Get your facts correct.
Icaro Onofre - killed Verstappen???? Really?
in another parallel dimension probably
if Benetton held Italian nationality from 1996 to 2001, why then since 1998 until 2001 four times in a row British flag was placed above Benetton pit garage during French GP instead of Italian flag ? Italian flag was put only during 1996 and 1997 French GP.
Ahhhh cable TV .. You pay like 50 to have it yet u have to sit and watch 10 min ad breaks every 10 mins ..
50 channels of data in that era ,lol more like 50 x 6 of data,hate to see how many channels now days of data
Without Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn they were ptetty nothing.
that fuking monaco race ened already 8 hrs ago and i can't find higlights anywhere ...
YOU AIN"T TRYING UNLESS YOU ARE CHEATING. The idea is to not get caught kinda like the class system in the United States
All These guys who come up with that cheating bullshit - first inform yourself before you talk bullshit! It's Confirmed that Benetton did not cheat in 1994. By almost anyone who was in F1 in that period. And it is also know by now why these rumours came up and from whom...so please inform yourself before you just repeat the stupid bullshit that clearly can only come from a person without actual and deeper knowledge of F1.
Those cars don't change on tenth as much year to year or even decade to decade as you F1 fools say they do and think they do if you're the typical "F1 fan" who couldn't change oil in a lawn mower if his life depended on it.
Amazing how much commercial you had in UK TV compare to France ! Frightening...
That was recorded in Canada
Benneton.....watch us build a cheating car
Lmao exactly, how to build a very illegal car and get away with it, by 'I never cheated before 2009' Flavio Briatore
Shit. There aren't any fucking "rules" or "regulations" in F1 that aren't bought and sold and made up on the spot depending on who bids the highest. Its a giant scam with government-subsidized and really GOVERNMENT-OWNED AND TAX-PAYER FINANCED "companies" hiring an endless succession of poor saps from foreign countries to drive those deathtraps once they manage to SURVIVE a couple of "lower" levels of "racing" in Europe without being paralyzed or in a coma. Fucking death traps built by fools owned by governments funneling the cash through "private companies" and driven by stupid kids who will be lucky to "survive" a 2-year "career" and have about as much chance of becoming "legends" as I do. Fucking criminal is what the whole fucking mess is.
?
All great sports are cheating. When they host the World Cup don`t think for a moment there is no cheating going on. Matches are fixed to fit the best possible outcome for money purposes. Boxing same thing. Cycling, all (or most) using drugs and avoiding getting caught. Sports with big money going round are all fixed to a degree. Formula 1 is no different.
@@vulcanproject r
Hahaha, Pentium brain.. mega slow by today's standards.
Stupid Comercials !!
F1 is not the best motorsport the drivers dont race the teams tell them what to do and when to do it
O RLY?!
Still, I've seen F1 drivers go to Indy and win... 've never seen it the other way 'round....
Crappy 1999 doc alert ..