Angstadt Arms has developed an MP5/AR15 hybrid that combines the benefits of HK delayed roller system with the ergonomics of the Ar15. InRange is entirely viewer supported: / inrangetv
"I look forward to seeing your input" as opposed to "you're not allowed at our booth" ...and that's how you keep me from completely disregarding your brand.
How many times do you think InRange gets turned away from booths at shot show? I feel like I vaguely remember one story but can't remember the brand name.
@@IRMacGuyver Franklin armory. Ian switched off the camera while continuing audio to roast the product the spokesperson was holding, and then they got banned from Franklin armory's booth the next year.
I am pretty happy with varusteleka myself so i got no issues with that. Have bought 3 seperate times from them at this point and haven´t regretted it. Will buy from them again.
@@MarvinCZ oh thanks for the insight, my off the cuff joke carried with it whatever implications and connotations justify you educating me. I've never fired a gun in my life, nor do I understand how perception works. Amazing how you got all that from a random joke. lol
B&T makes two very high quality low recoil offerings that are comparable to the MP5 known as the GHM9 for $1500, and the higher end APC9 for $2500 (which is now a US Army contract SMG). CMMG also has a roller delayed blowblack AR which recoils similarly as well called the Banshee, which goes around for $1500 (not to mention it's an AR, which is always a positive). Then you also have Stribog who is gonna introduce a roller delayed gun soon probably under a $1000, and PSA is gonna be introducing a cheap MP5 clone for probably around $1000.
@@smolboyi its the bolt velocity along with the bolt weight that causes the recoil. You aren't feeling the round so much as the 21oz weight slamming into the end of the buffer tube every time you shoot.
Hmmmm... with this, H&K's SP5 and the soon to come PSA MP5 clone (less $), roller 9s are getting very interesting. Once all three are on the market, I'd like an Ian and Karl comparison, including dust and mud tests, to see which earns the Stamp of Hubris.
As we've seen so far, roller delayed closed-bolt designs are pretty damn resilient. Sure, the lack of a dust cover is a mark against the G3, but the action itself is nice and closed up on all HK's roller delayed offerings. I'd say the SP5 will pass, perhaps not with flying colours, but reliably enough to validate the system once again.
H&K's SP5 is already becoming irrelevant. Except for the weirdos who want to buy one just because it's "H&K". Equivalent of a 60 year old white guy buying a corvette just to put it in his garage.
@@dylanwight5764 You want a dust cover on the G3 - take a strip of BW issue NATO green duct tape, longer then the port, then rip it in half along the centerline. One piece covers the port, the other is taped around the flash hider. Both will blow away with the first round fired.
I actually prefer a 8" barrel on these pistols. Unless I'm going to use it in a deep concealment role, I like the added barrel length for velocity and the added rail space for mounting lights.
I feel like there comes a point where it's going to be more efficient to throw an arm brace on a pistol than build a pistol-calibre carbine with an extremely short barrel. This offering straddles that line.
Hipoint - 2600$ is for full pistol with brace, 3lug&threaded barrel, last round hold open, glock mag and AR trigger compatible, all while lighter than an sp5 (3.6lbs vs 5.1lbs).
One thing I noted as well was that the 'extraneous' noise, IOW noise outside of the actual firing pulse, was quite a bit less on the Angstadt as well. Would likely mean that it would suppress better than a standard blowback AR-9 type. Since at some point it's the action cycling that's the major noise contributor when you suppress something that can be suppressed down whisper quiet.
Totally agree, the 9mm PCC platform needs a longer barrel. The 9mm becomes near 357 magnum with the right barrel. At that price point, the HK SP5 is hard to resist.
$2600? I get why, but that's still pretty steep. Isn't PSA trying to produce a MP5 clone this year for around $1000? And the roller delayed version of the stribog is supposed to be coming state-side soon as well I thought.
yeah you have to remember PSA has economy of scale and hk has existing tooling, since this uses non hk geometry its going to drive cost way up because of tools and r&d
@@AppliedGats I get the cost would go up, my point wasn't "WAAAAH WHY YOU NO SELL AT/UNDER COST" Just that it's gonna be hard for them to compete with so many other roller9s on the market/on the way to market at lower price points.
2600$ is for complete gun with the custom 1913 lower with last round bolt hold open, sb tactical brace, 3lug&threaded barrel. Takes glock mags and ar triggers and Weighs 3.6lbs which is less than an sp5 (5.1lbs) Just upper price is not listed but will be available sometime in the future, along with a list of compatible 3rd party ar-9 lowers. (But really why would you ever want this as just an upper unless its just for an already registered sbr lower) Please edit your post to be correct so we don’t kill this with miss-information before its even a product.
It would be interesting to try it next to CMMG's radial delay. Similar advantages and CMMG is now offering barrel/bolt packages opening up a world of configuration and price points.
Since people in the comments seem to be confused- 2600$ is for the full pistol with sb tactical brace, 3lug&threaded barrel, last round bolt hold open, Glock mag and AR trigger compatibility, all while weighing less than an sp5 (3.6 vs 5.1lbs). Release date Q2 2020 I would take this over an sp5 unless its just to have a piece of HK “Unobtainaium” assuming its reliable, of course. Looking forward to the sp5 mud tests :)
Most of those features you've listed are stock standard on most AR platform firearms these days, most of which can be had for $500 or less. I understand that development of a proprietary firearm is an expensive endeavor, and clearly the results speak for themselves But not all of us can afford to spend the wrong side of 2.5k on a single firearm... especially when you can acquire two, three, maybe even four separate firearms, for half the price of this one. Perhaps at $1200, but until then, sorry, the $2k+ for moderate recoil reduction over a standard $500 9mm Ar, just isnt there. ^.-.^ cheers.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon But those ARs aren't roller-delayed. That's the point, this is a MP5 on AR platform. Yeah you can buy several 9mm AR for the price of this, but can you use all of them at once? If not, why buy a 9mm carbine that is mediocre four time, which won't improve your shooting experience, instead of buying one that is truly superior?
Great review as always. However I wonder how this stacks up against the CMMG 9mm with radial delay blowback in terms of recoil impulse and affordability?
With the closest competitor being the APC9 at around the 2k+ mark I'd definitely agree this is the one to go for as the roller delay is definitely worth the extra though it would be nicer if they can find a way to bring it to market for less
Jake Combs - why would you though? Assuming its reliable this has last round hold open, glock and AR compatibility, AR controls and trigger, and weighs less(3.6lbs vs 5.1lbs), Unless its just to have a piece of HK “unobtainaium” i would pick this assuming it’s reliable.
Does it only work with Glock mags? Or will it work with any 9mm or converted 5.56mm lower regardless of the specific 9mm magazine it takes? Also $2,600 for just the upper?! Ouch!!!
Gunslinger454 -2600$ is for the complete rifle. Please edit your post to be correct so we dont kill this with miss information before its even a product.
Probably gonna be just glock magazines. You have to make the bolt able to scoop rounds from whatever type of magazine you want to use when you design your bolt face, and there are too many small variations in the backs and shoulders of magazines to leave it readily capable of working with even a few with types of magazines
For everyone wondering about the price, it's $2600 for the whole gun or $1800 for the upper alone. Buying the upper and a cheap lower and brace make this a sub-$2000 roller delayed gun that takes Glock mags with better ergonomics and trigger than an MP5. I agree, $2600 is steep, but $1800 isn't too bad when you compare it to other guns on the market. An SP5 is well over $2000, and an MP5 clone is going to run $1500-$1800. That being said, we have yet to see the PSA MP5 clone or the roller-delayed Stribog.
I really like someone is trying to innovate the roller delayed system. I think the real test will be when (if it’s not vaporwear) the RD Stribog drops.
@@devincook2736 When does redesign the roller-delayed action to fit into AR compatible receiver as equally innovative as just redesigning the magazine well of a "clone"?
@@yangcheng-jyun8542 because they just made a custom upper to get an mp5 bcg over a Glock mag and it's not really impressive to me, same as you're not impressed by the idea of a Glock magwell mp5.
Zenith already offers sub $2000 MP5's with original equipment, and the CMMG Banshee with roller delayed blowback (not to mention it comes in 10mm, big plus) goes for $1500
The TH-cam comments are a roller coaster of "we want a completely new engineered thing but we don't want to pay for development". 2600 is a lot of money but for a new design of a precision-manufactured thing the cost is not really off the mark.
@@stelioeffrena1571 Turns out that it doesn't matter when the design is from; building a clean sheet item is always a major engineering and tooling investment. Note the HMG StG44 and SMG FG42 development process and prices, also completely new engineered things from WW2.
While certainly understandable for the proprietary design, the high price puts this out of the range of most shooters, whom can acquire an AR 9mm such as features along side this one, for $500, which will work plenty well.. Sorry, but $2+k for moderate recoil reduction just isnt high value for most folks.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon I don't disagree on any points, it can't provide the same value as cheaper options. But people who say "I wanted this until I saw the price" don't fundamentally understand what it is they wanted and that's more what I was getting after.
Nice idea and glad it exists, but I'm with Ian on the size. If it's not going to be any bigger than the actual pistol one of the glock chassis systems is more the competitor in my mind. While a G17, and an MCK (or similar) is not as good, it is far, far less expensive
While I'm certainly not sold on this one for the price, the compact PDW format has plenty of benefits over simply a Glock in a chassis. Ergonomics for one, and compactness of design for two. Rather than finagling a Handgun into a bulky chassis, with extra parts and wizbangs thrown I to attempt to make it more ergonomic, this is designed from the ground up to be compact. That said, I'd still go with a Glock34 and Flux defence brace for a PDW. It is as close to the Scorpion as one can get. Slightly bulkier if you include the Foremount mag/lamp holder.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon I agree and threw the MCK out as an example. Even if it was the only option I think I would rather have the MCK, pistol, an optic and a small pile of Benjamins as a first pdw thing. I just don't see this being worth more than double for most folk. That said I hope enough people want it for them to be successful even if I'm not their demographic
Time will tell. With a lot of these PCC’s running Glock mags, I’ve seen more times than not that they have issues locking the bolt to the rear on the last round. I couldn’t help but notice in the video that it didn’t lock to the rear on the last round when Ian shot it. Wish they would have used a existing reliable double feed magazine.
i just wish one of these companies would use/design a lower that takes scorpion, or kp9 mags. designing a delayed blowback system for a 9mm ar but still using exposed glock mags really seems like 1 step forward and 2 steps back to me.
This looks like an appropriate time to ask. All the 9mm versions of the AR style rifles seem to go to straight blow black. Why not change the bolt to 9mm, barrel and barrel extension to needed dimensions. Leaving it as a semi-direct impingement system?
I think the only way this is competitive is if it drastically beats an MP5 clone in price. Its doesn't do that at $2600....I think most guys will stick with an MP5 clone for the cool factor. Aside from the ergonomics, you can pretty much mount anything you want on the HK nowadays. They'd knock this out of the park at $1500 or lower.
Well, this is fucking cool You can really tell the difference just by watching the guns next to each other. Interested in how much this cost. Whooooo, 2600 dollars? I would just buy an SP5 for that price. That way you get the HK Slap
Why don't more manufacturers design SMG's (/PCC's) with the magazine integrated with the pistol grip, like the MP7 and MP9, and the Uzi. You can maintain the same length of pull while offering more barrel length like a bullpup.
Well it wouldn't be compatible with an AR lower for one. :P But also various reasons depending on what the manufacturer is after. Manual of arms for example.
I think there are alot of great ideas out there , but they fall short on the price. Maybe cause they are hoping for a le or military contract. I don't know, but to me they just killed their idea with the price. Good vid though.
Proprietary new AR upper design. R&D comes at a cost, and unfortunately for smaller businesses, it means high production costs, which usually leads to bankruptcy.
very cool, but 2600 is a bit too much, the SP5 is in the same bracket, and I'd think most people will go for the SP5 (just cause it's cool) even if this gun is a little better in some ways. that said buying the upper alone might be more reasonable and popular.
Roller delay has been around for ages, but the high cost no doubt comes from the proprietary AR platform design. While understandable, I unfortunately see the high price killing this project before the year is out. Hopefully someone else can replicate the concept for less than half the cost. ^.-.^
Also, Glock mags, like all single feed pistol mags, are a pain in the ass to load especially once you get to 20-30 round capacity. Double feed mags are much easier to load as you just push down the rounds like on an AR15 mag.
Call me crazy but I'll never find a pistol caliber carbine compelling without full auto. Bigger package than a pistol and less penetration than a rifle. At least if it had a pistol grip magazine well you would lose some of the bulk... I just don't get it's place in home defense.
Ian just plucking the bolt assembly out of his hand for analysis without saying anything. The privilege gun jesus can afford
Would be an honour at this point, tbh.
Ian immediately goes for the bolt and carrier!
But luckily nothing got dropped on the floor...
"I look forward to seeing your input" as opposed to "you're not allowed at our booth"
...and that's how you keep me from completely disregarding your brand.
How many times do you think InRange gets turned away from booths at shot show? I feel like I vaguely remember one story but can't remember the brand name.
@@IRMacGuyver Franklin armory. Ian switched off the camera while continuing audio to roast the product the spokesperson was holding, and then they got banned from Franklin armory's booth the next year.
Ian dressed from head to toe in Varusteleka särmä gear.
'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man.
@@Jay-ln1co aahh how how how (wrong song but I don't give a rip)
Because La Grange is a great song
I am pretty happy with varusteleka myself so i got no issues with that.
Have bought 3 seperate times from them at this point and haven´t regretted it. Will buy from them again.
Jay So it worked for ya huh?
"Dude, spoilers, I haven't tried it myself"
LOOOL
It's actually pretty important so he can form an unclouded opinion. If he knows what Karl thinks about it, he is predisposed to see the same thing.
@@MarvinCZ oh thanks for the insight, my off the cuff joke carried with it whatever implications and connotations justify you educating me. I've never fired a gun in my life, nor do I understand how perception works. Amazing how you got all that from a random joke. lol
@@justinheads5751 nah it was a joke lol you can tell by watching the recoil and cation. the trigger feel is all you. was no spoiler lol
I'm sold. Just watching the barrel stability was night and day. Then I heard the price... um.... maybe not.
Yes, I could aslo see the recoil differences from the video :-)
Shame about the price :-(
B&T makes two very high quality low recoil offerings that are comparable to the MP5 known as the GHM9 for $1500, and the higher end APC9 for $2500 (which is now a US Army contract SMG). CMMG also has a roller delayed blowblack AR which recoils similarly as well called the Banshee, which goes around for $1500 (not to mention it's an AR, which is always a positive). Then you also have Stribog who is gonna introduce a roller delayed gun soon probably under a $1000, and PSA is gonna be introducing a cheap MP5 clone for probably around $1000.
CMMG banshee is much more worth the price imo
Math okay buddy
@@smolboyi its the bolt velocity along with the bolt weight that causes the recoil. You aren't feeling the round so much as the 21oz weight slamming into the end of the buffer tube every time you shoot.
Hmmmm... with this, H&K's SP5 and the soon to come PSA MP5 clone (less $), roller 9s are getting very interesting. Once all three are on the market, I'd like an Ian and Karl comparison, including dust and mud tests, to see which earns the Stamp of Hubris.
PSA MP5? Big think...
As we've seen so far, roller delayed closed-bolt designs are pretty damn resilient. Sure, the lack of a dust cover is a mark against the G3, but the action itself is nice and closed up on all HK's roller delayed offerings. I'd say the SP5 will pass, perhaps not with flying colours, but reliably enough to validate the system once again.
H&K's SP5 is already becoming irrelevant. Except for the weirdos who want to buy one just because it's "H&K". Equivalent of a 60 year old white guy buying a corvette just to put it in his garage.
@@dylanwight5764 You want a dust cover on the G3 - take a strip of BW issue NATO green duct tape, longer then the port, then rip it in half along the centerline. One piece covers the port, the other is taped around the flash hider. Both will blow away with the first round fired.
@@Sideshowbobx Damn, I was hoping it would flap around and contribute to making a sound of asscheeks clapping when the weapon is fired.
I actually prefer a 8" barrel on these pistols. Unless I'm going to use it in a deep concealment role, I like the added barrel length for velocity and the added rail space for mounting lights.
I feel like there comes a point where it's going to be more efficient to throw an arm brace on a pistol than build a pistol-calibre carbine with an extremely short barrel. This offering straddles that line.
@@dylanwight5764 its not a pistol thats a smg?
@@popinmo Oh, you mean this SMG? The one the manufacturers themselves call a pistol? angstadtarms.com/mdp9/
When Ian analyzes a bolt i feel like a whole library of weaponry knowledge enters his mind
I would love to see a comparison between this, a SP5 and the CMMG banshee.
I need to take a moment to acknowledge how classy Ian looks here
as allways. King of firearms
Can’t beat a wool pea coat with a newsy hat.
$2600? You could get a radial delayed CMMG Banshee for half that price
You can also get a high quality complete Zenith or PTR MP5 clone for about $1900
This is my thought too. If I want to upgrade my blowback 9mm AR to a cmmg radial delay, I can do it for like $300.
Hipoint - 2600$ is for full pistol with brace, 3lug&threaded barrel, last round hold open, glock mag and AR trigger compatible, all while lighter than an sp5 (3.6lbs vs 5.1lbs).
Folding stock tho
yeah the CMMG guard and banshee are both excellent implementations of this for a really good price.
When you can outright see the recoil difference between the two, you know it's an improvement.
Looking forward to being able to afford this.
One thing I noted as well was that the 'extraneous' noise, IOW noise outside of the actual firing pulse, was quite a bit less on the Angstadt as well. Would likely mean that it would suppress better than a standard blowback AR-9 type. Since at some point it's the action cycling that's the major noise contributor when you suppress something that can be suppressed down whisper quiet.
Totally agree, the 9mm PCC platform needs a longer barrel. The 9mm becomes near 357 magnum with the right barrel. At that price point, the HK SP5 is hard to resist.
$2600? I get why, but that's still pretty steep. Isn't PSA trying to produce a MP5 clone this year for around $1000? And the roller delayed version of the stribog is supposed to be coming state-side soon as well I thought.
yeah you have to remember PSA has economy of scale and hk has existing tooling, since this uses non hk geometry its going to drive cost way up because of tools and r&d
I’ve heard more than once that PSA’s won’t be delayed.
@@ToastbackWhale Century has brought in sub 700 dollar roller guns using surplus parts and the current shot show vids claim the psa5 is roller locked
@@AppliedGats I get the cost would go up, my point wasn't "WAAAAH WHY YOU NO SELL AT/UNDER COST" Just that it's gonna be hard for them to compete with so many other roller9s on the market/on the way to market at lower price points.
@@ToastbackWhale LOL if it wouldn't be roller delayed it would be a colossal failure
Is that $2600 for just the upper? If so, it's dead in the water IMO.
Especially when you can get a good complete MP5 clone from Zenith or PTR for about $1900
Their site looks like 2600 is for the whole thing, but they will also offer the upper as a standalone add-on for already owned lowers.
2600$ is for complete gun with the custom 1913 lower with last round bolt hold open, sb tactical brace, 3lug&threaded barrel. Takes glock mags and ar triggers and Weighs 3.6lbs which is less than an sp5 (5.1lbs)
Just upper price is not listed but will be available sometime in the future, along with a list of compatible 3rd party ar-9 lowers. (But really why would you ever want this as just an upper unless its just for an already registered sbr lower)
Please edit your post to be correct so we don’t kill this with miss-information before its even a product.
It would be interesting to try it next to CMMG's radial delay. Similar advantages and CMMG is now offering barrel/bolt packages opening up a world of configuration and price points.
Since people in the comments seem to be confused- 2600$ is for the full pistol with sb tactical brace, 3lug&threaded barrel, last round bolt hold open, Glock mag and AR trigger compatibility, all while weighing less than an sp5 (3.6 vs 5.1lbs). Release date Q2 2020
I would take this over an sp5 unless its just to have a piece of HK “Unobtainaium” assuming its reliable, of course.
Looking forward to the sp5 mud tests :)
Most of those features you've listed are stock standard on most AR platform firearms these days, most of which can be had for $500 or less.
I understand that development of a proprietary firearm is an expensive endeavor, and clearly the results speak for themselves
But not all of us can afford to spend the wrong side of 2.5k on a single firearm... especially when you can acquire two, three, maybe even four separate firearms, for half the price of this one.
Perhaps at $1200, but until then, sorry, the $2k+ for moderate recoil reduction over a standard $500 9mm Ar, just isnt there.
^.-.^ cheers.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon But those ARs aren't roller-delayed. That's the point, this is a MP5 on AR platform.
Yeah you can buy several 9mm AR for the price of this, but can you use all of them at once?
If not, why buy a 9mm carbine that is mediocre four time, which won't improve your shooting experience, instead of buying one that is truly superior?
Great review as always. However I wonder how this stacks up against the CMMG 9mm with radial delay blowback in terms of recoil impulse and affordability?
The lower recoil impulse is blatant when viewing them fired side by side.
The very noticeable buffer spring twang on that Colt style AR9.
I wish I had hit that booth. Saw when this was announced and I hope I get a chance to shoot one.
Lighter is almost always better especially when you're going to add stuff like lights and Optics potentially suppressor.
With the closest competitor being the APC9 at around the 2k+ mark I'd definitely agree this is the one to go for as the roller delay is definitely worth the extra though it would be nicer if they can find a way to bring it to market for less
JP is coming out with a roller delayed competition rifle now.
Grand Power Stribog A3 will also be roller delayed.
I guess the Extar Ep9 is still a contender for the entry level PCC!!! Nice gun but man that can get expensive!
Nice! Looks damn fun. First one feels weird just to watch shoot
Everyone has a price in mind for this system, can't wait to see what company is going to hit that price point first.
The difference in recoil is apparent from watching your shoulders.
For 2600 I could buy an SP5...
Jake Combs - why would you though? Assuming its reliable this has last round hold open, glock and AR compatibility, AR controls and trigger, and weighs less(3.6lbs vs 5.1lbs),
Unless its just to have a piece of HK “unobtainaium” i would pick this assuming it’s reliable.
@@purplepenguin43 I'm more into collecting historically significant firearms, so the sp5 is more up my alley.
I need the second stimulus check like RIGHT NOW!
That's to expensive
This upper and the new frontier C5 lower can go together for a modernized mp5 lookalike
If they're compatible that will be great!
Does it only work with Glock mags? Or will it work with any 9mm or converted 5.56mm lower regardless of the specific 9mm magazine it takes? Also $2,600 for just the upper?! Ouch!!!
Gunslinger454 -2600$ is for the complete rifle. Please edit your post to be correct so we dont kill this with miss information before its even a product.
Probably gonna be just glock magazines. You have to make the bolt able to scoop rounds from whatever type of magazine you want to use when you design your bolt face, and there are too many small variations in the backs and shoulders of magazines to leave it readily capable of working with even a few with types of magazines
2600 for the whole deal, 1800 for the upper
For everyone wondering about the price, it's $2600 for the whole gun or $1800 for the upper alone. Buying the upper and a cheap lower and brace make this a sub-$2000 roller delayed gun that takes Glock mags with better ergonomics and trigger than an MP5. I agree, $2600 is steep, but $1800 isn't too bad when you compare it to other guns on the market. An SP5 is well over $2000, and an MP5 clone is going to run $1500-$1800. That being said, we have yet to see the PSA MP5 clone or the roller-delayed Stribog.
So, Karl, you´d say there would be a there there?
I wonder if it could feed from the lowers that take the Scorpion Evo mags? Probably not.... but the Evo type mags are better, Cheaper too.
Nice with some roller love.
It would also interesting to compare it to the CMMG banshee in 9 mm.
Nice! Thanks Guys.
Rich.
I really like someone is trying to innovate the roller delayed system. I think the real test will be when (if it’s not vaporwear) the RD Stribog drops.
Innovate a 50+ year old concept? Or you mean implement it in an AR compatible upper?
@@devincook2736 That's innovative though.
@@yangcheng-jyun8542 would you say the same thing if PSA makes one of their mp5 clones Glock mag compatible?
@@devincook2736 When does redesign the roller-delayed action to fit into AR compatible receiver as equally innovative as just redesigning the magazine well of a "clone"?
@@yangcheng-jyun8542 because they just made a custom upper to get an mp5 bcg over a Glock mag and it's not really impressive to me, same as you're not impressed by the idea of a Glock magwell mp5.
Totally unrelated question for Ian:
Is that the Särma wool coat from Varusteleka he's wearing?
$2,600? Ehh... I know that’s the ballpark for roller delayed 9s but still.
It’s almost the same price as a new HK. They had to have come up with the price before HK announced...oof
Zenith already offers sub $2000 MP5's with original equipment, and the CMMG Banshee with roller delayed blowback (not to mention it comes in 10mm, big plus) goes for $1500
My POF was 1300 so no, not really.
Ian has been shopping at Varusteleka again. I have the same coat. :D
My Turkish Zenith MP5 clone with a brace is pricey enough at $1800, but it's a great copy and very accurate. Looks a lot better than the Angstadt.
I almost didn't click on this because it looks like yet another PCC... However, I'm glad I did since there's obviously a there there ;-)
The TH-cam comments are a roller coaster of "we want a completely new engineered thing but we don't want to pay for development". 2600 is a lot of money but for a new design of a precision-manufactured thing the cost is not really off the mark.
RussianBlue A completely new engineered thing like a roller delayed blowback from WWII?
@@stelioeffrena1571 Turns out that it doesn't matter when the design is from; building a clean sheet item is always a major engineering and tooling investment. Note the HMG StG44 and SMG FG42 development process and prices, also completely new engineered things from WW2.
@@stelioeffrena1571 The concept of Roller delayed is not new, but the proprietary Ar upper and Bolt design is.
While certainly understandable for the proprietary design, the high price puts this out of the range of most shooters, whom can acquire an AR 9mm such as features along side this one, for $500, which will work plenty well..
Sorry, but $2+k for moderate recoil reduction just isnt high value for most folks.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon I don't disagree on any points, it can't provide the same value as cheaper options. But people who say "I wanted this until I saw the price" don't fundamentally understand what it is they wanted and that's more what I was getting after.
2,600$ is a lot of damn cash, and well into B&T territory.
Love the idea
Please check out the CMMG gaurd
I’d be interested in this being compared to a Sig MPX and the CMMG radial delay. All being non-blowback 9mm PCC’s. Give us that InRange video!
It’s about fucking time someone made a roller delay upper for an ar!
But for the money they want you can get an mp5... CMMG.. or even a B&T
4:12 great point
Nice idea and glad it exists, but I'm with Ian on the size. If it's not going to be any bigger than the actual pistol one of the glock chassis systems is more the competitor in my mind. While a G17, and an MCK (or similar) is not as good, it is far, far less expensive
While I'm certainly not sold on this one for the price, the compact PDW format has plenty of benefits over simply a Glock in a chassis. Ergonomics for one, and compactness of design for two.
Rather than finagling a Handgun into a bulky chassis, with extra parts and wizbangs thrown I to attempt to make it more ergonomic, this is designed from the ground up to be compact.
That said, I'd still go with a Glock34 and Flux defence brace for a PDW. It is as close to the Scorpion as one can get. Slightly bulkier if you include the Foremount mag/lamp holder.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon I agree and threw the MCK out as an example. Even if it was the only option I think I would rather have the MCK, pistol, an optic and a small pile of Benjamins as a first pdw thing. I just don't see this being worth more than double for most folk. That said I hope enough people want it for them to be successful even if I'm not their demographic
Think they picked a blowback that rattled just to make it seem that much worse?
Time will tell. With a lot of these PCC’s running Glock mags, I’ve seen more times than not that they have issues locking the bolt to the rear on the last round. I couldn’t help but notice in the video that it didn’t lock to the rear on the last round when Ian shot it. Wish they would have used a existing reliable double feed magazine.
If we're talking upper only this thing needs to be sub $1,000 to be viable.... Maybe 2600 for a turn key gun with top-shelf innards.
Oh ... I was, for a shot moment, hyped that his is a video about the MP9 but it is not and it seems I can't read. :C
Beginner's question here: Are uppers for the AR9 and AR15s with magblocks interchangeable? Because it looks like one's longer than the other.
MICRO DYNAMIC PISTOL 9
i just wish one of these companies would use/design a lower that takes scorpion, or kp9 mags. designing a delayed blowback system for a 9mm ar but still using exposed glock mags really seems like 1 step forward and 2 steps back to me.
Chad Grimgravy psa just droped an AR that takes scorpian mags last month check their insta
Quite controllable and accurate. Can this weapon fire in Fully automatic mode????
This looks like an appropriate time to ask. All the 9mm versions of the AR style rifles seem to go to straight blow black. Why not change the bolt to 9mm, barrel and barrel extension to needed dimensions. Leaving it as a semi-direct impingement system?
Are you asking why aren’t 9mm PCC’s a direct impingement system? It can be done, I think they are just quite finicky.
@@JimYeats Yep. Might need adjustable gas block. 1st setting for NATO spec 9mm. 2nd setting for plinking. With couple of in betweens.
Mostly two factors.
Too many variances in ammunition for reliability, reduction of power in an already underpowered cartridge. ^.-.^
What is the difference between this and a radial delayed blowback from cmmg
For that money, give me an MPX any day. Not only is it cheaper but it is much more modular. Quick change barrels, handguards, and stocks.
Have you shot the Extar EP9? Made in AZ...
I was wondering, where's the catch? It's 2600$, there it is!. Damn it!!!
I think the size could allow it to take the place of a pistol for some applications.
I'll stick to my MPX thanks.
might anyone know what EEPs Ian uses? (electronic ear plugs)
That price would give my wife some angst adt.
Now, will it run reliably on a select fire lower?
Do you think the upper would work on a BRN 180M lower?
Where did Karl ger that jacket? I want one.
I think the only way this is competitive is if it drastically beats an MP5 clone in price. Its doesn't do that at $2600....I think most guys will stick with an MP5 clone for the cool factor. Aside from the ergonomics, you can pretty much mount anything you want on the HK nowadays. They'd knock this out of the park at $1500 or lower.
very cool!
Make bolt gap great again!?!?
I do need a new truck gun sweet.
Maybe if it was half that price
Sounds awesome but for that price I’ll track down an SP5K
I would stay with a 11” upper in .223.
Well, this is fucking cool
You can really tell the difference just by watching the guns next to each other. Interested in how much this cost.
Whooooo, 2600 dollars? I would just buy an SP5 for that price. That way you get the HK Slap
Looks nice, but is it actually worth being twice as expensive as a CMMG Banshee?
They had to have come up with that price before HK announced the SP5 because oof
Why don't more manufacturers design SMG's (/PCC's) with the magazine integrated with the pistol grip, like the MP7 and MP9, and the Uzi. You can maintain the same length of pull while offering more barrel length like a bullpup.
Well it wouldn't be compatible with an AR lower for one. :P
But also various reasons depending on what the manufacturer is after. Manual of arms for example.
Will this work with an MP5 mag fed AR15 lower?
that or the Banshee? Also roller delayed and been on the market for some time
Nice
I think there are alot of great ideas out there , but they fall short on the price. Maybe cause they are hoping for a le or military contract. I don't know, but to me they just killed their idea with the price. Good vid though.
I want it.
Does HK have a patent on the roller delay system, and if so do they have to pay a licensing fee to HK?
Pretty high price. :(
MP5 came out in the 60s, patents only last 20 years.
I don't know, but by the time I think the patent have expire.
The price is, probably, because of the complexity of the system.
Roller delaying mechanisms are older than HK is, so they don't.
Proprietary new AR upper design. R&D comes at a cost, and unfortunately for smaller businesses, it means high production costs, which usually leads to bankruptcy.
very cool, but 2600 is a bit too much, the SP5 is in the same bracket, and I'd think most people will go for the SP5 (just cause it's cool) even if this gun is a little better in some ways. that said buying the upper alone might be more reasonable and popular.
I'm surprised no one has done this before...
Is roller-delayed still under H&K license? Is that why the gun is so expensive?
Zer Lv nope. They didn’t invent roller delay, and even if they did patents expire after 20 years apparently.
Roller delay has been around for ages, but the high cost no doubt comes from the proprietary AR platform design.
While understandable, I unfortunately see the high price killing this project before the year is out. Hopefully someone else can replicate the concept for less than half the cost. ^.-.^
This or a b&t apc9?
I'll stick with my POF.
why is he pointing the gun at Karls belly?
Tickled. Tee hee.
Really cool product but man do I wish it didn’t take Glock mags.
I'm lost, what's wrong w/ Glock mags?
@@yuibot5998 Double stack single feed can lead to reliability issues in hi cap magazines
Also, Glock mags, like all single feed pistol mags, are a pain in the ass to load especially once you get to 20-30 round capacity. Double feed mags are much easier to load as you just push down the rounds like on an AR15 mag.
I'd assume double feed is impossible. Remember, Ian remarked that the bolt was smaller than an MP5. Tiny bolt face pigeonholes you into single feed.
Call me crazy but I'll never find a pistol caliber carbine compelling without full auto. Bigger package than a pistol and less penetration than a rifle. At least if it had a pistol grip magazine well you would lose some of the bulk... I just don't get it's place in home defense.