Battle of the Ports - Thunder Force V (サンダーフォース V) Show 518 - 60fps
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
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Time Code
00:28 - Saturn
04:11 - PlayStation
06:55 - All versions side by side
Enjoy!
#retrocore
#battleoftheports
#thunderforcev
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There are a lot of shooters, but there aren't a lot of shooters with a soundtrack THIS GOOD.
The soundtrack is fantastic for sure.
I love that names of the first two bosses in the game are named after the bands Deep Purple and Iron Maiden. Would have been cooler if all the bosses where named this way.
@MrMegaManFan Verdade. Que eu lembro agora, Thunder Force IV e V, Verytex e Soukyugurentai. São as melhores que joguei e escutei. 👍
@@fqnfinancas3431 Gradius 3, Axelay, Thunderforce 3, Elemental Master, Musha aleste. That's just a few that have incredible sound tracks:)
The soundtrack is so good. I’ve listened to the hell out of it. The Saturn definitely makes great use of the infinite plains with VDP2. Just an amazing game overall. It’s a keeper.
SEGA Saturn original, NO DOUBT! More stuff in the background and VDP2 shines again.
The soundtrack composer is the greatest! He doesn't get the credit he deserves lol
@@bobbyjr.9559 He certainly doesn't. Both this and Hyper Duel are absolute BANGER soundtracks.
Try Devil Engine. The music definitely shares the same energy.
Being a fan of shooters, I was excited by Einhander which came out around this time for the PS1- I liked that game a lot. So when I wanted more, the person at the game store recommended this one- I didn't know much about prior TF games so I tried it. I remember liking it fine, but wasn't as blown away as I think I was hoping I would be. I guess it's past time to try it again!
Thunder Force V is often underated compared to its last two prequels, but it still is one of the best horizontal shmups. The handling still is as good, the sound score holds its own against the best in the series (a special mention for the threatening musical theme repeated in the last 2 levels and the bad ending) and the final boss is by far the best one in the series, I think.
That's funny how the backgounds in level 1 look more contrasty on the PS then it's the other way round for level 2. But playing both versions with some time in-between, I never noticed that, or even differences in speed; so those differences are small in the end. That said, seeing some translucent areas on the Saturn that are not on the PS always gives me a giggle.
That VDP2 and its infinity plane.
I remember playing Shining in the Holy Ark and Shining Force III, Bulk Slash and a few others on the Saturn, where there are these "infinite" plane things and I thought at some point "I don't remember seeing that on PS1 games", at the time, I knew little to nothing about how each console operated.
Panzer zwei for me...
@@orderofmagnitude-TPATP True, but believe it or not, we never played any Panzer Dragoon at the time, we never had it at home, it's a shame.
Many thanks for covering this one! I love the Thunder Force series and V is by far one of my all time favorite shmups. I liked the PlayStation version for its extras but the Saturn version definitely has superior visuals. I'd love to see V remastered someday, but here's hoping.....
It also have one of my favorite OSTs ever too.
Glad you enjoyed it!
That’s some fascinating differences and a tough trade-off to decide on- better backgrounds or less slowdown. There were a couple of places where I liked the PS1 backgrounds more but the majority of the time the Saturn backdrops were definitely better, even when it’s subtle stuff like a layer of mist in the background. I think I’ll give this a go on the Saturn later. 👍
I think you made the right choice.
The PS1 version does have transparent explosions and sunrays (dithered on Saturn) plus it has higher quality sfx. Other than that, Saturn all the way (except frame rate).
Were on a thunderforce kick of late...
Mind you i was just playing thunderforceAC on mame 2 hours prior 😅
I'm definitely going to give this a go. I have loved thunderforce 4. Played the hell out of it on my megadrive when i was 15
Thunder Force V? Don't mind if I do...
Both versions have their pros & cons. No real stinker here🤝
Both versions are great. But I do prefer playing the Saturn version overall. Great Video!
Fuuny thing about Thunder Force V is that I've listened to the soundtrack more than playing the actual game lol.
Can't complain about that... Such an awesome soundtrack.
Wow, the Saturn version is really the looker on this one. Great editing in the comparison
It really is!👍
Great video Mark, lots of helpful background info! I’ve yet to play TF V! Will make a point of of giving it a go now 😁
Hope you enjoy it!
Transparencies? On Saturn? But MISSING ON PLAYSTATION??
VDP has a hardware fog effect, which can be programmed into little clouds or light haze and such. It also has other hardware effects like "laser" and others. Then there are a series of plane options from 2 to 4 layers being used in different ways.
I don't think you understand how powerful the Sega Saturn is my friend, you really don't. I mistakenly sold mine when I was younger, so I recently bought a modified Saturn from E Bay. If you've never owned one, you shoiuld. Bottom line is, Sony should have lost the 32 bit war. But Sony bought their way to the top, as usual.
@@derekbuckler9888 lol the PlayStation had a library of games that Saturn owners had wet dreams about
@@joesaiditstrue That's not the point. It's regarding the Saturn's power
@@derekbuckler9888The NAMCO PlayStation
Battle of the Port
@@killerb2099 THE porT
@@orderofmagnitude-TPATPMark was having a romantic weekend with the Mrs. We will forgive him this time.
@@johnebbs3819 no criticism. Can't review something if it doesn't exist - thus completes the series also.
@@orderofmagnitude-TPATP only pulling your leg.
What a coincidence. The soundtrack album to this game under the Technosoft Music Collection is already released at this point.
One more note in favor of the PS version: The "Perfect System" subtitle is an Oingo Boingo joke
1:04 well that sucks hoping you had covered the switch version of AC since like I said it’s definitely worth talking about on a remaster episode
I'm not buying a switch game just for a video. I'll never play the switch version.
Wow. Talk about "from humble origins." Now this is a real video game franchise evolution.
It's amaizingly ported to PS1. Not an easy job. Thanks for the show!
Thanks for watching.
Excellent video, as always.
I appreciate that
Legendary soundtrack.
Great video as always!!!
Glad you enjoyed!
What happened with Thunder Force IV? And yes, It has a port: the Thunder Force gold pack 2 for Sega Saturn.
That's actually quite true. The Thunderforce Gold Pack 1 and 2 are completely reprogrammed in Saturn Assembly. Thunderforce 4 on Saturn is identical, albeit with all slowdown removed. However, if you can get the PAL version, it more or less removed slowdown present in the NTSC version.
@@iwanttocomplain I have the Gold pack 2, complete with its spine card and I acquired it while I lived in Osaka, about 19 years ago.
I forgot that the Saturn port existed for awhile, but then, I also remembered the Switch port of TFIV.
It's hands down the best one
@@solarflare9078 Can you describe why the Switch port is superior? I undeestand TF4 is also on the Mega Drive Mini 2, with slowdown fixed.
@@iwanttocomplain It's the only port that also allows you to play as Styx from Thunder Force 3, weapons included
I’ve known about thunder Force V for years and I’ve never played any version but it seems like a great shooter with some rocking music looking at the Saturn and PS1 versions i would lean more towards the Saturn version as there is more graphics detail in the Saturn version and the PS1 version looks bland in comparison. Anyway great battle of the ports as always, I think you’ve covered most of the Thunder Force series now except for 4 as you said it never got a port.
Looks like our pal Mark is having fun as usual. We wouldn't want to see it any other way. 8^)
Anthony..
Yep, I enjoyed making this one. I won't enjoy making the next show though.
Both versions have pros and cons visually. The Saturn definitely has more layers but the PS1 looks a bit more vibrant and clear. Not sure if it's simply the lack of the fog layer or not though.
Wow nice video
Thanks
The pinnacle of the franchise.
That'll be 4
@@burntyper love the counterpoint
I'd say TF3 is the best still, no fluff just action.
Thunder Force 3 is probably the one I've played the most and also the only one I can complete on Mania setting.
Well you forgot Thunder Force Golden Pack 2 which has Thunder Force AC and Thunder Force 4 if that counts. And you did talk about the first Thunder Force Golden Pack which had 2&3. If that counts. Plus check out Vastynex and Terra Flame which these games play like Thunder Force.
The music alone... Oh my GODness. Amazing AHH maaaayyy ssiiiiiinnngggg
I've had the PSX version and in the comparison the PSX runns smoother than Saturn, no slowdowns and overall better graphics.
I remember on PSX Einhander, Raystorm, R-Type Delta, Philoshoma, Raiden Project, etc...the 90s were the best for gamers.
Sure the ocean goes on farther on the Saturn version because of VDP2, but it looks less finished, like an outdoor scene in Vue or Bryce where you forgot to turn on the atmospheric effects before clicking "Render."
That music man!!
CRAW!
I'm rure that's meant to be Claw. Sounds so odd saying Craw.
Any game that used Saturn's vdp2 extensively must have been very troublesome to port to the ps1 or even the n64 (not sure that ever happened). I read somewhere that the dreamcast was the bare minimum to replicate vdp2 planes with polygons... even panzer dragoon on ps2 still does not feel to me quite right.
You're absolutely correct there 👍
I have to take my Saturn out for a spin
You are the reason why I discovered the Thunderforce games. Honestly did not know it had a V one... Will definetely look into this
Edit: is there by any chance you can give a list of your favorite shumps?
Oh man, favourite shooters is a tough one so I'll just list 5 that jump to mind that I've played so many times.
Thunder Force 4 (Mega Drive)
Sokyugurentai (Saturn)
Super Aleste (Super Famicom)
Layer Section (Saturn)
G-Darius (Arcade / PlayStation)
Sega Saturn Thunder Force V, another fine example of a custom hardcore programmed videogame to the Sega Saturn metal which was among the many games being released on Sega Saturn between 1996 and 1997 alone in Japan where right away Sega of America's 90s management staff acted like these games did not exist so they did not do any effort to work out an English translation or anything to help those Japanese Sega Saturn first and third party game developers because their arrogant egos were so far up where their Sun don't shine cause they just wanted to force Sega's Japanese headquarters to abandon the Sega Saturn and force a next gen hardware jump which in early 1997 was the disaster of the Sega of America/Sega Soft 3DFX based next gen project which thankfully was rejected like the 32X should have been.
It was basically ONLY Working Designs in North America that had any real heart to want to localize Thunder Force V and some other Sega Saturn exclusive games like Outrun, Space Harrier and Afterburner among others and sell them here but for whatever reason they were unable to release Thunder Force V so instead they released the Sony PlayStation version which itself had a little bit of extra stuff but only because TecnoSoft had to because iirc almost none of their games were being localized for North America during the 32bit gen which believe it or not was hurting those devs in Japan because no matter how good of an install base the Sega Saturn had there, those games may have sold at a better profit if released in North America and Europe which in turn could lead to the other regions like Australia and Brazil.
Well the localisation incurs a few tax costs that make profit slightly less easy to make abroad, before localisation development costs. But SoA seemed outrageously arrogant, to second guess Sega's technical ability and insist on the 3DFX chipset, I'm assuming because they were due kickbacks from the San Jose business, essentially attempting to cease control of the home hardware division, despite having no hardware engineering experience.
The Saturn 3D system, based on the Model 1 board, was the most advanced of it's time, with quad support, and NVidia based it's first 3D chip upon the technology, releasing it's first ever 3D accelerator card, the NV1 on it's design, although with only marginal comparable abilities.
The use of the PowerVR chipset in the DC uses efficiency techniques to increase performance, as opposed to NVidias direction of continual additions to bus and memory bandwidth, in place of efficiencies. Ensuring ever greater chip requirements and expansion of the silicone fabrication plants.
Honestly, I like playing the Playstation version better because of the performance. Some graphics also look better on Playstation, not everything is worse. But still, I own and like both versions, but my Special Edition for Saturn mainly sits on my music CD shelf. :)
Saturn version was delicious. But a shame about the slowdown.
Epic
Played through the Playstation version. The soundtrack is spectacular. I want to get the Saturn version but it costs an arm and a leg.
Sadly most of the great Saturn games are expensive 😭
Can't go wrong with either version. I had the PSOne version but I agree with your assessment that the Saturn version had the superior visuals.
You should do Rescue on Fractalus. Surprising number of ports and 40th anniversary.
I've never heard of that one. I'll look it up.
😃😃💯💯💯💫
Both ports are awesome, id choose the saturn port!😃
Good choice!
Looks nice on both systems, too bad they couldnt add the transparency effect of the fire explosion from the enemies in saturn one to blend it better with the background like the ps1 game. But anyways this game is a step back for me in the graphic area. Tf4 still looks so amazing today is soo detailed and well designed. tf5 looks like another early polygon shooter.
It's been nice to see the recent focus on Thunderforce, mostly I prefer the Saturn backgrounds, but whats happening on the Playstation seems to also be a choice in art direction, I'm not sure why they mostly opted for a lower tone, murkier colour palette. Who knows? By this point the games industry was already getting packed out with Wormtongues, I can believe somebody told the development team that colourful games don't sell on the Playstation. By the late 90s and early 2000's we were well into grimdark era.
Yeah, theate 90s and early 2000s was a bad time unless someone was a fan of muddy browns and messy greys.
Id like to own this on Saturn once again. Nicely done 🤠✌️
Thanks for the watching👍
A-WING. Versus B-WING STARFIGHTER. SATURN .
B WINGS EVERYWHERES.
SATAN. BEAUCOUP Trop Dificile .BDUR:
i'd like to see thunderforce 6 on dreamcast, maybe some homebrew developer could port it from the ps2
Yeah, the true home where it was originally started development for.
@@RetroCore i am afraid of that version was completly another game than the one released on ps2. technosoft was directly developing it and i think that technosoft president and founder was still alive at the time.
Carried by VDP2, for reall
I do believe it is possible to do a BotP on Lighte- TFIV by showcasing the original plus the Saturn version included in Thunder Force Gold Pack 2, as well the MD version running with 0 frame drops as a bonus segment (either the Switch or MD Mini 2 re-releases works).
Switch version lets you play as the Styx (TFIII ship), complete with all its weapons. That alone makes it the best version.
I always forget about the Gold. Pack w version dispite owning it 😅
If ever a series was not given it's dues. The competition: Darius, Gradius and R-Type. Take the first 5 from each series. For my money Thunderforce is the best shooting series. As for TF5. It's the very definition of style combined with substance.
As usual the Sega version get's attacked, losing comparisons with the PSX version, for spurious reasons like "you can't cycle backwards through weapons, only cycle forwards." But then I heard later that the shoulder buttons can cycle backwards _and_ forwards through the weapons.
I can see the PSX version run's slightly smoother, but the colour choices and effects seem inferior.
I sometimes wonder which is the greatest shooting series. I think about the PSX games Darius Gaiden, R-Type: Delta games, even Einhander.
But none have the fluid and strategic depth of Thunderforce.
Even R-Type with it's force pod shenanigans is more simple than 5 weapon options and speed changes on the fly.
The spinning orbs craw thing is ingenious in it's simplicity which can block shots and offer an ever changing point from which bullets are shot, making the skill ceiling potentially very high.
But it's not about difficulty, it's about playability and fun. This game is forgiving by having weapons retained. Although not on hard modes. Next to more serious shooting games like Gradius, with a focus on tapping or highly precise aiming, TF games are more loose in design. Even going as far as to include the homing balls of ultimate cheesiness. A sad inclusion in my opinion, used when playing the game seems too difficult for you...
But heavy use of stage obstacles (not so much present in TFV) and fast scrolling sections with inventive boss designs make this the most sophisticated design in the genre imho. I'd like to also mention X-Multiply as another game with inventive and well thought out mechanics.
Lol, I've seen many a PlayStation fan sites and channels clasping on the straws to make the Saturn version inferior.
As you mentioned, that Saturn version does indeed allow for cycling forwards and backwards through the weapons. 👍👍
@@iwanttocomplainwait don’t you mean G Darius? Darius Gaiden isn’t a good port on PS1 cuz idk it just feels too awkward to play probably cuz the load times and less frames of animation and it doesn’t have auto fire like Saturn does
@@morrowlterraslove oh yeah G-Darius. It can be complicated stuff remembering shooting games.
Oddworld battle of ports next Friday?
I will never get over "craw."
So interesting to see the opposite, meaning, a 3D game made with the Saturn hardware in mind ported to the PS1, while the latter sacrifices features found in the original, due to how the hardware of each works. Grandia is yet a fine example, take the "remastered" version for Switch, PC and so on which is based on the PS, even the so called HD version brings all what was cut or changed from the PS release.
I wonder what are these micro-stutters on the Saturn release, they aren't slowdown, per-se, but they're annoying, there are many games that featured these as a way to give some instances more of an impact, but this one seems like an oversight to me.
There are instances the PS1 looks better, like the ocean on the intro stage, but it's obvious they cut down a lot of the original visual flair. If this game was made for the PS1 in mind, the Saturn would probably be the butchered version, as it was back then.
Game soundtrack in the PS1 port is much more refined, I notice, yet I still find the Saturn version very enjoyable to listen to.
Just my personal thoughts. Even if I haven't played this installment before, the opening theme alone expresses to my ears (while wearing headphones) that the franchise has reached its highest peak. Not to mention the graphic design they implemented onto the HUD and even the Stage Select screen. Definitely one of the shmups to give a try.
Im 54 i would rather just watch now.
I hope at 54 I'll still be playing.
I am still waiting for Thunderforce 7 and a HD remake / collection. 😂
Sadly it will probably never happen.
Very nice and wise using vdp2 capabilities... better textutes pn psx ( more texture memory ).. Sony's audio maybe more cleaner ...
Forest level sun rays dithering on SS due vdp1 transparency limitations . Maybe could be transparent but hitting the perfornance due vdp1 weaknesses and limitations do do it ...
Anybody knows if Saturn version did good use of both SH2 and SCU to reduce slowdown issues?
Hehe, 'back shot'.
Still waiting on Chack'n Pop
juegos donde se aprovecha mejor el hardware de saturn
the only bad point the saturn version has is the slowdown...
after that it crushes the playstation version
Yeah, the slowdown is a shame but it's not too prevalent.
You said TF IV has no ports, but do the Saturn versions of II/III/AC/IV on the two Gold Pack releases not count?
I keep forgetting about the Gold Packs even though I own them.
i much prefer the ss one..i own it btw xD
I wonder if they used the same game engine as Darius for PS1... looks a lot like Darius!
I doubt it as Darius used an engine made by Taito. Back the games often used their own unique in-house engines unlike most games today that use an off the shelf engine.
I don't get why ppl even lied in Wikis.....do they get sexually aroused by doing dumb stuff like that?! Also the Saturn version wins by having that special music cd with it.
I mean, when it comes to Fandom wikis, it's just the usual trolling
When it comes to normal Wikipedia... well... let's just say there has been someone admitting to Wikipedia having a bias in the past.
Im old and beat zanac way back. I will blame it on the controller that i suck .
Saturn struggles too much with the slowdown. This is a PS1 win in my book
It's barely even present.
I agree. It's only is some key points. As the side by side part shows, that Saturn is faster is some areas.
I never owned or even played a Saturn but it's common knowledge that the Playstation was the better console but this looks WAY better on the Saturn hands down!
Your wrong son, dead wrong. I've been gaming since 1978, and I've spent countless hours on both systems. Sony should have lost that console war, or Maybe you missed all those Sega Saturn 3D games? If you've never owned one luka, then don't criticize. I've watched Sony buy their way to the top for far to long, the way they put Sega out of business was literally criminal. But then again, Sony always gets a free pass for anything dishonest they do. Right luka? Point is, playback Sega Saturn. Then get back to me
@@derekbuckler9888 what you've done there mate is judge a comment by its cover. I'm probably old enough to be your dad. Dont assume that I'm some young pip squeak just because I've never played on a Saturn. Its probably one of the few consoles I haven't played on and let's cut the bull shit, the playstation was the better console. All I said was it looked better on the Saturn? Even though that's your platform of choice in this situation you still found reason to challenge my opinion? The Saturn did 2D games far superior to Sony and the shoot em ups were second to none but let's not get ridiculous. There's a reason why so many people haven't played the Saturn. Spoiler alert - it's not because it was better than the playstation. There're fantastic games on Segas machine no one is taking that away from you.
Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm 49 this year so was well in my gaming prime when both consoles launched and owned both since day one till this very day.
The Saturn without a doubt is best for anything 2D while it also can produce great 3D. However the texture quality does suffer on Saturn in terms of resolution but also can impress due to no warping.
However the PlayStation does provide some very impressive 3D for the time. Some of which would be very difficult for a Saturn to reproduce.
However saying the above there are cases where a 2D title can be better on PlayStation such as Donpachi or a 3D title can be better on Saturn such as Thunder Force V.
@@RetroCore 👍🙂
I do not think the use of VDP2 looks very good in some examples in this game. Its just a tiny texture repeated 100s of times and makes the water pretty ugly at the start. At times it can look terrible 8:57 in the vid is an example. 9:59 is another time it does not look good at all plus the impact on performance. I understand it is doing a lot and it is a great technical achievement, might have looked better on a CRT back in the day.
There's a Thunder Force 5 and 6?!
Apparently yeah lol.
Yeah. VI is pretty strongly disliked by a good chunk of the Japanese fanbase, though.
Yeah, Thunder Force VI was back in 2008 and V was back in 1997
5 is good but not great (except for the music). 6 is kinda of a cash grab even the soundtrack is garbage
@@DeskoDevBasically, Technosoft is nothing to do with it and the producer of VI was a controversial person (game producer/manga artist Zolge Ichizo ), the one notorious for ripping off scenes from other video games, shoving in stories and settings which doesn’t fit with the previous instalment (and altering the settings from the previous instalment) and worst of all, include a fan made mech without the original creator’s authorisation and crowbarring his manga character (the gory baby) as the final boss.
Back then I just felt the graphics were so ugly compared to TF4. I was hoping for a high fedelity 2D game be alas.
I can understand your thinking there.
The Saturn original looks better thanks to the use of VDP2, but it REALLY chugs along compared to Perfect System. I'd choose Perfect System for that reason alone, as slowdown really hurts this genre of game.
REALLY chugs? No way, your tripping.
Slowdown? I've only noticed it a few times my friend. And I own a modified Saturn, sorry but I disagree. The Saturn should have easily won the 32 bit war, and I mean easily
Slow down doesn't bother me in shooter. Even arcade shooters have slowdown.
I think the reason why the PlayStation is smoother is because it lost a lot of background detail.
For example there are more icebergs on the Saturn version which were removed on the PlayStation to provide more processing to keep up the speed.
If only this has been a 2D game. Those ugly pre-rendered sprites and low poly models have aged... badly. Add to that the janky frame rate and hideous Saturn mesh transparenciesin some stages and you have something which whilst not awful, is still a far cry from the brilliance of Thunderforce 4. Honestly the only thing which really saves it is the soundtrack. (the same composer would also score Hyper Duel and Blast Wind for Tecnosoft)
psx version has way less slowdown, much more enjoyable to play
Not that enamored with this one, 3D graphics from this generation have aged so badly. It doesn't hold up visually nearly as well as IV does.
Saturn: prettier; PSX: faster
There is no battle. The Saturn IS the better version. I could care less about FMV videos
I'll put it this way......I played the PS version for 12 months straight and 6mo out of that 12 was 8hrs a day. I never got to play the Saturn version until Imported it 3 mo after that initial 12. Once I entered the stage I pick first which is 3 - I noticed IMMEDIATELY!!! I was floored at how much was missing and a lot of SE just sounded better on the Saturn. Everything looked better and I cursed Working Designs for doing such a piss poor translation of the game. From that date in 2001 until,.....shit,....day before yesterday being the last time I loaded TFV up, I have NEVER EVER touched the PS version again.
worst looking Thunder Force in my opinion
Excelent. MEGADRIVET. HOMMAGE .😊: