J-8B In War Thunder : A Basic Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- Checking out the Chinese J-8B interceptor in War Thunder.
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Minor updates to the J-8B :
th-cam.com/video/Avkdfukv2IE/w-d-xo.html
You hit the nail om on the head with your description of chinese tech Tim. The Chinese will find something that works well, copy it and then improve it, they can be very innovative.
I suspect that the original designers of the Tu-16 wouldn't even recognize the H-6K, etc etc ....
@@TimsVariety the running meme in Chinese military fan circle is that while other aviation bureaus are churning out new designs every two years, Xi'an is running out of alphabets for its H-6... A similar joke on tank is that every new tank is just a modified version of type 59 (which is not far from the truth), e.g. the Tiangong Space Station is most likely a space-adapted 59. Haha.
One of the best examples in-game is probably the MiG-21 F-13 and the J-7II cockpit's open in different direction.
The truth is they are not, because we in Hong Kong are more familiar with them. They have no capability in innovation, which is why they cannot make a 24nm microprocessor or actually come up with a high speed train themselves. The mix and match imported products, but cannot even design produce a landing gear on their own.
In the surface, they can make planes and trains, but in fact powerplants, suspensions for train cars, electrical systems and fire control modules are all made of imported modules. Because they cannot innovate, the experimental data is unknown to them unless they get a licence for production. This means they can copy, but cannot make ANY modifications like widening their train cars by 1cm without catastrophic consequences. This is also why they cannot actually design an airframe without stealing an existing design to work on.
As it stands, they cannot improve anything because in this decade, products have become so advanced they require extensive experience, testing and evaluation, which encourages the act of criticism, and the ccp cannot tolerate it.
In short, the Chinese are capable of creativity, critical thought and innovation, but they are forbidden from something like that. Because of that, they have not gained any experience in innovation, and in this age, the advanced nature of all tech means the learning curve has become nearly impossible to overcome.
@Charles C. I never thought about how innovation is critically stifled by the government censorship and control. I assumed that most of their copy/paste technology was due to financial concerns or the ease of mass production, but I can definitely see that lack of innovation in firearms like the QBZ 191. Instead of simply cloning a soviet weapon like they usually do, they've spent a decade developing that thing, and truth be told compared to western firearms, it's not good at all. The caliber is good and unique to Chinese firearms, but the innovations they've made are already obsolete.
I actually kinda like the design of this thing. Kinda like a MiG-23 without the variable wing sweep. Maybe I'll get to it eventually.
It looks like a Su-15.
@@Philliben1991 yup, they built it to compete with the su-15
The J-11 looks like a SU-27. Everything is based on russian jets.
@@clovdz6073 The J-11As were literally Su-27 kits assembled in China, so yes, I'd expect them to look like Su-27s. In fact, I'd be worried if they did not.
Its a Mig 19 tail, mig 21 wings, mig 23 intakes, and F4 looking front. Its a plane with an identity crisis
6:35 use first stage only afterburner. With the mouse wheel, roll into wep only just. Notice the difference by the engine sound and the fuel consumption. Works on a lot of jets, and it a huge help in supersonic cruising with the MiG-21.
I’m not one to compare one TH-camr to another but this was the type of review on the Finback I was looking for.
.. and there is an entire playlist of them to binge on ;-)
@@TimsVariety I think I discovered your channel in October and I’ve watched most so far. I appreciate the quality and I’ve came back for new uploads since :)
"be gentle for the first couple of seconds" ~ Tim 2022 6:50 . Greatest philosophy ever.
I'm grinding out this plane right now and I am pretty hyped for it, especially once we get custom loadouts. That said, Gaijin deciding to give this plane the radar from the J-8B block 1, while giving it aspides which were only included on the block 2 version is a really weird decision.
Chinese Radar classification is kind of a mess. Going to the discussion topics on the forums ,sources seem confused and divided on what even were the radars this thing got, like mistakingly calling the type 208a the klj-1, which is actually the type 1471 radar, which did have pd capability. What is certain is that the type 208a used in the batch 2 was upgraded from the 208 to be able to use aspides. Weather it also had pd capability, or weather the batch later also received the 1471 is debatable.
@@rm2569 So my understanding is it didn't have PD, but a look down shoot down mode similar to that of the MIG-23 or Mirage F1
@@TheEndPermian later versions definitely had that with the 1471 and later radar sets, but I can't find conclusive evidence that either the j8b carried that radar or the type 208a had mti capability, though both are possible. I am hoping gaijin does either one and actually make the aspides much more useful. Or atleast give us the j8h next patch or something. I don't even think python 3s are necessarily required, even a load of 2 aspide and 2 pl5b with mti radar would make it significantly.more competitive.
@@rm2569 agreed
It's because the Chinese tree manager is extremely lazy and does Wikipedia levels of research when it comes to Chinese planes
Once again, great work on the review! There's a lot of myths and misunderstandings about the history of Chinese aviation, it's nice to here somebody take the time to talk about it a bit
on a site note... it should also get more power to the engines.... its been given to the dev team... 1st dev server it had MK1 engines. now it has MK2 but they have not updated the power output.
Lots of planes with missing thrust in game. And certain planes that overachieve their sea level speed based primarily on airframes not being limited or vice versa. Like the F105 was known for going 1.2 mach on the deck in combat scenarios slicked out leaving a A.O, but in game even with its "10000kg" thrust engine cannot even hit its designated 810 knot do not exceed speed from real life.
Regarding the radar, if Gaijin actually cares at all about being accurate, they'll change it to the version with the LD capability, only the block 2 was able to carry Aspides (and I think Python 3s too).
Hopefully they buff it with it's proper weapon systems soon
@@jaek__ they'll add a (Late) variant when the MiG 29 releases
Tim, you are on a roll wlth the reviews of the new planes, keep them coming.
Cant wait for the j-10 xD
J-10A, J-10B, J-10C, J-10C with WS-10 engines, lots of potential in the Chinese tech tree (not to mention more than a dozen flanker variants)
there's this basic idea that most peoples failed to understand about "Copying".
Lets say you had been making Nokia 5110 for your whole life, and then someone had an Iphone 12, and u get it from them to copy.
well, u wont be able to create your own Iphone 12 tomorrow wouldn't it?
u still have to learn & develop the whole industry & technical skill to make so, and learn way more things along the way.
Tim says it right, it is about utilizing design that works & improving that doesn't, ultimately u are making a whole new technology with similar appearance & ability that matched the other.
and ultimately it can create designs that outmatched the design that u tried to copy because of things u learn during the development process..
I like the design of both the J-8I and J-8II, they J-8II looks similar to the Sukhoi SU-15 Flagon interceptor put out by the Soviet Union
Uploaded: 28 seconds ago. Me: Don't mind if I do.
Hopefully, after this, we'll get the Su-15 as well. Two of my favorite third-generation interceptors.
I always watch your videos on my break at work make the job a little more enjoyable
The waisted fuselage reduces body drag, IFF probes and other modern electrical systems and things are installed. The aircraft was designed very, very well. It's not a copy / paste craft.
There's no overwhelming public consensus.
If people find an idea that makes sense and is obvious to their eyes, they'll cling to that even when serious contradicting technical analysis is available and accessible.
For the clickbait crowd, Millennium 7 has decent content on TH-cam for a Western audience, and there's also this gem of a history talk about how people at the time "analyzed" the "copying" behind indigenous Imperial Japanese aircraft designs nobody seriously questions today: th-cam.com/video/r1sn-1ZCmDg/w-d-xo.html
Keep doing what you're doing - you're not alone as a voice of reason haha
Cant believe they pushed this out with the elevators still bugged into going the wrong way
Yeah .... that was a bit of a "c'mon guys" facepalm when I saw it wasnt fixed .....
Okay so I wasn't insane watching it in the video
If you weren't aware, the pilot of No. 81192, Wang Wei, is praised as a hero in Chinese media. He is said to be a selfless hero who rammed himself into the American spy plane when it refused to comply with orders and were encroaching upon Chinese territories, and disrespecting Chinese sovereignty. However the western side of the story was that during a show of force/scaring maneuver the aircraft collided with the EP-3 due to the pilot's lack of awareness and caused the accident that resulted in his own death.
sooooooo Gaijin might just be playing into the national pride of CHN players by including this as the default skin so they can pay up on the premiums, grind out the tech tree to unlock his historical aircraft and go krill imperialist pigs and enemies of the state )))))))))))))))
Why did he rammed the EP-3 ? Was the plane not armed ?
@@azzarnthelizard no the EP-3 is not armed. Like I said he was "flaunting" or a show of force, trying to get them to comply and go away, so he did a lot of maneuvers.
@@makarovtheplat1805 think he was asking if the J-8 was armed, because if their intent was to take out the EP-3 then why didn't he just use a missile or the gun
@@oceanforth21 He was not ordered to take down the EP-3. The J-8B was carrying missile payloads and munitions for gun, but was only ordered to coerce and flight follow.
@@makarovtheplat1805 what i'm saying is that he didn't mean to take it down, or he would have used weapons
That missile at 3:55 lol
I didn't get many chances to demonstrate the minimum engagement range with the Aspide, so made sure to include that clip.
Thanks for the excellent review Tim!
ty for clarifying that from loadouts... because i really hate this jet atm... 2 radar missiles with crap radar = 2 chances of kills. or 4x PL5 like J7E.. :P and the J7E dogfights better tbh.
Tbh it's radar really isn't bad. I've seen plenty of videos of folks locking people up despite the ground clutter and getting consistent kills with those nasty missiles
10:01 "This aircraft is _enormous!_ "
Laughs in Tupolev Tu-28 "Fiddler." 😈
the MiG-23 intakes weren't copied off of the F-4 phantom, its a case of convergent evolution and people on the internet getting it confused as copying
Still waiting on them to fix the PL-5B
Great video brother. This thing is amazing a picking up speed
Great review that is informative and balanced. I wish I can like the video twice!
It's not a good plane in 11.3BR, but we can expect the J-8BM, which featured a doppler radar system and better missiles.
I find it weird that people think taking already used design choices is stealing. If an ally spends millions in developing the designs, they’re probably good ideas and you should be able to use them
Right? Why re-invent the wheel?
EP3E: ahh, the rammer. I remember you from 2001
Among Chinese military fans this plane has a nickname of “空中美男子”
I think that translate to "Beautiful Man in the Sky." Such an interesting poetic nickname for a fighter jet. Pretty cool I think.
@@timmyhers9253 Yes
I never wanna play watthunder coldwar/post-coldwar tiers. They are just massive pain. It is a game where only T3/T4 classical WWII dogfights give you gameplay pleasure
Doesn't surprise me at all considering the merger roots and player base of China.
9:42 I think that paint job choice is deliberate on the part of Gaijoob considering that they have made several references regarding the CCP in the past few months. Such as the "tank man" references in their "Chinese MBTs" video, as well as a spoof on Chinese state media on their new "Sun City" map.
I know you mostly do reviews for BR 9.0 and higher but could you make a video on the Grumman F9F-8 Cougar? It just… *looks* amazing but I’m honestly tired of grinding and I don’t know if it’s worth actively trying to grind up there or to just play whatever I want and let the RP build up over the years
Sorry I know I'm not Tim but I grinded all the F9F's, and the F9F-5 is the best of the 3 IMO. the Cougar gets missiles which is cool but its also more likely to get uptiered than the Panther and it plays VERY differently than the other 2. You can't really dogfight in it because it bleeds speed way too fast in hard turns. It's acceleration is kinda bad compared to 8.7+ aircraft that you're more likely to match with and you have to be very picky and reserved with who you engage.
It's a really unique plane and if you are a Grumman fanboy like me It's worth it but otherwise I'd pick a different line to grind first.
Its on the list, but I cant promise an ETA
@@TimsVariety No rush!
I love how it takes a Russian plane from the 80s and a Chinese plane from the 90s to compete with an American 1960s aircraft.
keeps these comimg tim
I don't think it's a bad plane necessarily at 11.3, just outside the meta. I think in general both earlier and later j8s might have been better appreciated. It's certainly better than the.mirage F1 in my opinion, due to the excellent performance, but much like the kfir it suffers from limited armament options.
Question
When you give your opinion on it in virtual reality. Do you play a couple of matches in sim or just go out in a test flight
Brace yourself, this surprises people for some reason.
I play half a dozen matches or so with the VR headset, in air RB mode.
An example:
th-cam.com/video/1cZ9hFraVzw/w-d-xo.html
Pls lord snail get us EVENT J-8i for the collection
so disapointed on aspides on the j8b misiles go for chaff as if it was an ir misile going for flares
Nice mach pun
For now the type 208 is just a copy+paste of 104G's radar.
Hopefully they'll fix it soon
I'm not sure about this, but couldn't it carry IR missiles combined with the PL-11s irl??? A mixed 4-missile loadout would be great for this thing in game imo
The J-8 was produced in a bunch of versions, some of which had drastically different weapon systems and missile compatibility. Some of the later models could carry the PL-11.
Will you be covering the Mi-28A for Sweden?
Maybe also some comments to the now released Heli PvE mode?
Both will be covered.
hey Tim, i dont have idea what aircraft os better to grind , j8b or mirage F1
I only care about this plane because of the looks lol
they still haven't fixed the horizontal stabilizer being inverted on this plane? WTF gaijin
The MiG 23 intakes are not copied from the F4. It's just a myth. They are quite different
The intakes on the mig-23 (and the J-8B) have sharp sawtooth elements behind the spliter plate in front of the intake. The purpose of those on the F-4 Phantom is to cut barricade cords that would otherwise get snagged there in the event that the plane had to make an emergency carrier landing using the barricade net. Those sawtooth parts serve literally no other purpose, but are present on the Mig-23 (and J-8B).
Unless the intake design was directly copied from the F-4 Phantom there is .. well .. it would be hard to explain the presence of those sawtooth components.
@@TimsVariety 1. Do you have a source for that other than that one guy on TH-cam that has no idea what he is talking about? 2. There aren’t many ways to design side mounted variable ramp splitter plate intakes. Just because form and function are similar doesn’t mean it’s a copy. 3. I’m not sure but I doubt that the Chinese had access to soviet technology at that time because of the sino soviet split
@@reichenwald-gm4qd 1 , Yes, declassified info from the 4477th TES (the "constant peg" program) where the USAF flew captured/stolen/found/bought surplus Soviet jets out of Area51 for DACT. Its entirely possible the USAF lied or was wrong in their analysis, but its not a hill I'm willing to die on so I'll leave this as the last comment.
2 , ok.
3 , China got some second hand Mig-23s from Egypt in the 1980s, one of them was (is?) on display at "Minsk World" the old carrier they turned into a theme park. They had a project, the Nanchang Q-6, based on the Mig-23 but it ended up being cancelled.
Does anyone know when the custom load out update is coming ? Wtf do they mean by soon ? I hope it’s not 1 month
It’s so odd that the elevators are inverted lol
Hey Tim, could you make a quick review of the Mig19S since im using it as a grinder?
When I get to the Mig-19, it will be a review of the entire family.
Early birds !
It's a shame that the radar is still wrong
The RWR is on the top left side. the SPO-10.
Its not functional in-game. For some reason, almost NONE of the non-American-style RWR's are functional in any of the cockpits.
@@TimsVariety Youre right, maybe because American RWR’s are on screens. Even the newer SPO-15 on the MiG-23MLD doesn’t work
@@MiG29Enjoyer I've complained about it to the devs a bunch, but .. silence .. :-\ .. maybe someday ...
@@TimsVariety True, i love the sound of the SPO-15..
Why is the elevator is reverse lol
Its a bug, and has been reported.
Ah yea I saw you mentioned it thanks!
MiG-23 intakes were not copied from the F-4 Phantom.
The intakes on the mig-23 (and the J-8B) have sharp sawtooth elements behind the spliter plate in front of the intake. The purpose of those on the F-4 Phantom is to cut barricade cords that would otherwise get snagged there in the event that the plane had to make an emergency carrier landing using the barricade net. Those sawtooth parts serve literally no other purpose, but are present on the Mig-23 (and J-8B).
Unless the intake design was directly copied from the F-4 Phantom there is .. well .. it would be hard to explain the presence of those sawtooth components.
Is no one talking about how the elevators are reversed?
I mentioned it in the video.
@@TimsVariety Alright, thanks alot
Idk man, copying other people to fill your needs still kinda is copying people.
Omg it happened again he killed me again while I was in a f4
o7
@@TimsVariety same thing when you did MLD and I was in a turn fight with you
@@sevastyanb2626 I remember that one :-)
@@TimsVariety r60 > flaring
Hi
Among
Ich bin Soldat, doch ich bin es nicht gerne als man mich als ich es ward' hat man mich nicht gefragt
It’s a su15 correct
Not exactly.
@@null643 Learn from history, or it's easy to blindly repeat it. th-cam.com/video/r1sn-1ZCmDg/w-d-xo.html
second comment?
This Jet looks like shit. First time I saw this I was like HAHA what a shit turd. Then I get rekt by it and the new Chinese missile. I treat it with respect now and I shoot this down before the J7E