This might be a controversial take, but I find arrow keys to be indispensable, whether for scrubbing videos, snapping windows, or sometimes navigating menus without moving my hands off the keyboard to a mouse. The idea of removing a tactile switch for effectively a swipe bar, just seems incredibly stupid as it makes the action I want the fastest to be slower than most actions. Seems like with a lot of these keyboards you're paying more for less, and although they are doing something 'different' it's sort of like with the current electric car scene (capacitive touch everything), in that you never asked the question of if the thing that is different is actually better or if it is worse for the general use case.
Yea different for the sake of being different is a gimmik, it seems more like a keyboard you would display rather than acutal use. When you start playing with layout you either hate your life as you use it or get used to it and hate using other keyboards. That odd lack from what I remember seeing without the control or if that special key was that its just asking for trouble.
Personally this is one of the few less than keyboards I’d actually buy, for me gestures would make it so I can type with both hands and use them at the same time for that purpose I’d enjoy it, but I could def see why people wouldn’t
I can't not have arrow keys, page keys, or home and end keys. I've layered my page and home/end keys onto my arrow keys so they don't take up extra space, but I'd never layer away my arrow keys. I just use them way too much.
I can kinda understand the value of it though. You don't have to reposition your right hand if you wanna use the arrow keys. But this feature isnt gonna make me switch from my Mx keys.
Agreed. Is there such a thing as an emergent aesthetic? That's the only way I can think to describe it. Looking at the individual parts/colours, I *should* not like the Noctua look even slightly, but taken as a complete package I absolutely adore it.
The swipe and “hold” actions are just literal translations of the arrow keys, I’m shocked it was mentioned as something special. It’s literally youtube’s UI advancing the video/changing the volume.
Plus no cable, which can just be crazy inconvenient and like a weird cop-out to either save some money or simply not put effort into a quality cable worth keeping or that matches the colourway you purchased.
@@FrontwaysLarry if you're buying this in the first place, you're probably a keyboard enthusiast as its a group buy item. you should have ATLEAST 5 cables laying around 😂
The percentage is the number of keys, not the actual width of the board. A 65% could be extra wide like you want. No one makes that because the main reason people go for
@@northwestclasspnw7974 the thing is that ergonomically if you have wide shoulders it may not be that good for you to force and hold your arms to stay in a central position for extended periods of time. A more natural position would be to have each half of your keyboard close to where your shoulders are, or at least as far apart from the center as possible. Hence the other guy's comment of a wider 100+ % keyboard
It's an HHKB layout - the Ctrl key is supposed to go in the Caps Lock position, with the right FN key enabling a layer that then puts the arrow keys on the [;'/ keys
It would be cool to use the touch pad to move the curser while typing. Saves you reaching for the mouse, or using arrow keys. Kinda like how swiping space bar works on most phones.
Some DIY boards have solder pads or spare I/O pins for tiny Pimoroni trackballs. My Kyria does, though I've not installed one, so I don't know how well it works.
Swiping a space bar? Never tried that. Looks like my Android keyboard switches layers that way but I've always used a dedicated button. I have arrow key row below space bar anyway so this is better. (Smart Keyboard Pro)
It looks like without their software it's just sending the arrow keys, so swiping should move the cursor, or pretty much do whatever the arrow keys would do in a given situation.
i'll be honest I never understood the smaller keyboards. The only use IMO is if you have limited space but most people that own these have huge desks. Would love to see more of these but in 100%
I got a 100% size and kinda wish I got a TKL, but I'd also want a separate numpad for calculator and spreadsheet work. But I agree; sucks seeing a race to make keyboards smaller and less useable for adults with adult hands.
It's not even a 60%. It has less keys than a 60%. It's more like a 50%? Pure marketing bs and I'm sad that they insisted so much on this stupid idea in the video
So the layout of this keyboard is based on the HHKB (Happy Hacking Keyboard), which is pretty much a 60% layout. And the difference to a 65% keyboard is made up by the touchbar.
I read a braindead arstechnica article that popped up in my feed entitled *"Do mechanical keyboards really need arrow keys?"* about this keyboard. Here's a couple of comments from that article that hit the nail on the head: _If you need arrow keys but hate arrow keys, try this touchpad. And you'll never guess where we put it!_ _Yes, they absolutely need arrow keys. Arrow keys are just like alt, tab, space, enter, etc.. They are vital parts of keyboard navigation that makes many tasks faster, easier, and lower effort than repeatedly switching my hands from keyboard to mouse._ _You need arrow keys because they're unambiguous when pushed. Touchpads can sometimes not quite translate the movements exact as you put them in, makes using them when you need to be accurate a nightmare._ _Looks like a bad solution looking for a problem most people don't have._ _A rare violation of Betteridge's Law_
Sweet, you can do what you can do with the arrow keys but inconveniently! I constantly use the arrow keys for scrubbing. I love the 8-bits design though.
I see a lot of discourse about the removal of arrow keys and its pretty valid. Personally I use split keyboards and something called Extend. I can hold a modifier (caps lock for me) and the buttons where my right hand sits for touch typing temporarily become up,down,left and right. I would use this even on a non split keyboard now its just lovely. So I could easily use this keyboard but I'm certain most people wouldn't make that adjustment.
All 5 pin switches can fit into 3 pin slots. You just gotta cut off the 2 plastic feet to put them in. Ive done it to all my switches for my current keyboard
I used mine for so long that keys were no longer visible, unfortunately the USB cable kinda broke at the end but for the price it was so extremely good.
@@felixjochems1238 I poured milk over mine. And they are damn rare for a cheap rubberdome keyboard. One idiot in greece wants to sell it on ebay for 380€ sealed in box
I love custom keyboards but wow do those touch controls look like the most gimmicky, and frustrating thing to try and use as someone who is an avid enjoyer of dedicated arrow keys. Not a keyboard for me, but I like seeing keyboards on the channel! MORE.
Hopefully the use of wireless charging for keyboards becomes more common. The video done on the topic for LTT made me realize how convenient it would be. As for the Touch Bar, I was half-expecting something along the lines of what we used to have on a MacBook Pro.
idk man. I guess it depends what size of battery you put in your keyboard, but I'd much rather just have a keyboard that can easily switch between wired and wireless.
For smaller keyboards, I like to bring it with me to use for my iPad or for those who play/work on a laptop while also owning a desktop. I have my TV hooked up to my PC and switch back and forth with my desktop monitors and being able to move my keyboard to my bed where my tv is at is very convenient.
I know some doctors and nurses who would buy that in a millisecond even at that price. With all the typing they do for documentation, and moving from text box to drop down to text box it makes perfect sense to never have to move your hands. Plus it’s small enough to keep in their backpack. So it’s always with them, whatever computer they can find. Honestly considering how much I love my friend and if I should buy them this.
I feel like this is a keyboard that is making a solution for a problem that does not exist. Sure, it may "keep you from moving your hand from the home row" but is it really that imprtant? Keyboards already put strain on the wrists, the last thing that is needed is to also keep the hands in one position the entire time. And people who are obsessed with home row already have set up "the perfect layers" to achieve it.
I really, really don't get the appeal of Angry Miao keyboards. But I guess that's just a product not for me, and that's fine. Clearly it is a high quality product
I really don't understand why someone would use a keyboard with less keys. I use the F keys all the time, i use page up/down home/end and delete all the time, i use print screen all the time. How do you do a Alt F4 in a keyboard like this?
I think this keyboard is meant for the person who wants compromise. I need F keys and modifiers for everything. If you need Alt F4 you'd probably just make a macro for that on this board.
It's just for difference sake, it's less keys, therefore less function's and cost a lot more... I can understand removing the numbers pad so you have more mouse movement space, but this removes even the freaking Ctrl key...
@@shippy1001 I can understand a keyboard with no number pad, i use it a lot because i work and play with the same keyboard, but there are a lot of people that don't, but everything else is pretty much essential
Okay but you say that because you're a writer you don't need function keys. That's fair, but you do lose a lot of convenience and speed when writing if you don't have Home/End/Delete, right?
I definitely thought that was going to be a trackpad for the mouse. Losing the arrow keys is not an upgrade 😂 I want a wireless keyboard with the red nub like my Lenovo laptop! I saw Lenovo made one themselves but the reviews were pretty bad
"You can use the touchbar for arrow keys" You know what else works as arrow keys? ARROW KEYS. This keyboard is like, 10mm narrower than a 65%, why would you sacrifice such a critical cluster for that...
The front placement seems really awkward to use. I would have to pull my hand back towards me to use it and that would get tiring. Side makes more sense if it is useful at all.
@@kinger2005 It's still a garbage layout, for gaming even workloads this is useless and you're better off with other keyboards which don't sacrifice feel, sound and performance. After all, this keyboard is not exactly "cheap" so options are very plentiful
Even though you would have to be entirely out of your goddamn mind to pay that much for it, I do appreciate that for once they reviewed a keyboard that isn’t already sold out by the time the video is released…
As a programmer, I like the idea of having touch bar on thumb to emulate arrow keys. Emacs (and bash emacs key bindings) use C-P etc keys so you can quickly move cursor around while typing. However, not all editors can be easily customized (partly due to too many key bindings). So a more generic approach using touch bar to move cursor without having the right hand leaving the home row would be really cool. If the touch pad could be replaced with physical buttons, I could imagine that could lead to more precise controls. I would totally get a TKL keyboard with additional arrow buttons / touch bar below the space bar.
It's pretty neat, but yeah it's just really expensive. Like, the upper models are 'get a current gen console' expensive near enough (and a game or several, if we're talking about the Switch). As far as controls for when I watch a video, I just used a small wireless keyboard device called a Rii. It's basically a small keyboard + (crappy) touchpad about the size of a small controller (but pretty thin). With that I can jump/scrub back and forth in a video, and use the various keyboard shortcuts for the player (like 'c' for captions). In the event I want to jump large chunks of video, or if I want to click on another video like on YT, I can use the crappy touchpad for that. The Rii is no good for proper typing, as it's more an oversized blackberry (or on screen keyboard) in that respect, so dual wield thumbs if you're good at it I guess, but yeah I type and control M+KB games with my regular keyboard. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it if someone was keen on finding a decent way to control their video playback on their computer without using their main keyboard. I use it when I kicking back and watching videos on my computer.
When did the term "colorway" bleed into general parlance? I swear I'd never heard it before 2021. Not crapping on it, but we didn't seem to have trouble just saying "color-scheme", "paint-style", etc. in the past.
Companies need to start focusing on developing silent mechanical switches and keyboards, I only know one company so far that makes a near silent mechanical switch. I made a custom keyboard with those switches simply because my discord friends started complaining about how loud my previous mechanical keyboard was, and even using background noise cancellation and constant muting myself it was still an issue. Honestly, they were right, being on a call with a continuous clicking noise is really frustrating.
There are a lot of great silent options out there. My personal favorites are Gazzew Bobagum switches in a gummy o-ring mount keyboard. I would imagine the lack of silent switches isn't because people don't want them. Instead, it's because most switches are tuned around sound, and a silent switch can only have one sound: silent. Once that's been figured out, there's not many ways to innovate besides different spring weights and increasing smoothness.
STOP using blue switches lol, there are millions of slient switches out there already and unless you have some studio quality mic they are dead silent on the mic
it actually triggers me how many silent linear switch options there are. I really prefer switches with at least tactile feedback, but there's just not a lot of people making better switches in that market compared to silent linears.
These keyboard reductions are absolutely pointless from a user standpoint. Notice how the cost has not decreased by 35% as the keys and material involved have.
I like the arrow keys on my Kinesis Advantage, where left/right is on the left hand and up/down is on the right hand, so you don't need to move your hands either. But you do have proper buttons.
I use a 65% (iirc) board for typing, and a separate numpad. I don't tend to use my arrow keys much because emacs, but that one I can see being *really* annoying if you use the arrows a lot.
So the "touch arrows" are just worse than normal arrows? Also what about the other "bar" on the back side (next to USB C)? Does it work or what. because it looks same as the front one to me.
The case is aluminium, which blocks Bluetooth signals. You find these kinds of "windows" on almost all Bluetooth boards that are made of aluminium. It allows the signal to get out of the case
Not kidding, this is hidious. A keyboard thats a chore to use, its tall and heavy and cramped, the RGB is shit i dont think i can see the keys properly, the price obviously i far, far far prefer a cheap keyboard for a fiver to this
There was one thing that made this keyboard dead to me the moment I first saw it. The left control key position. An enthusiast brand like angry miao should know that most people who buy their keyboards are gamers and therefore uses the control key regularly for stuff like crouching. Having the control key in that awkward position is a massive oversight from their designers.
actually totally wrong haha, most of them are keyboard nerds LOL and they love the control at cap lock position, I dont know why but they do and that is their target audience, gamers are second
@@hansr370 Thast's funny. Most of the people I know in the keyboard enthusiast community are of course building keyboards. But when they're not they usually like gaming in their free time. I've built some keyboards in my time and I personally hate that sort of layout because it's impractical and hard getting used to.
HHKB 60% layout isn't an exactly a new layout and it is designed more for typing than gaming. Never used one myself but I heard the control is more comfortable reach in the caps lock position (and when was the last time you used caps lock). Arrow keys in this layout is usually done with layers (something like fn + pkl;) so that you don't have to have your hands leave the alphas. And lets face it, people who would buy this keyboard wouldn't stop at 1 keyboard so they would most likely have a separate keyboard for gaming.
@@dakaringer That's true. I just personally hate that layout and find it unfortunate that there isn't an option for the traditional control key placement. I'm looking into building a keyboard on my own atm and had hoped the next drop from angry miao might be what I would go with. That's probably not going to be the case since I dislike the layout.
and insignificantly cheap for people with water cooled rigs with 4090 in it so there are plenty of customers. and they are only making like a few hundred they will sell, you are not their target anyway
I don't think you can compare the price of this keyboard to normal stuff. Its a rare product and more of a piece of art then a tool. People like me would never buy such a thing, even for half the price, but others who are into it will pay any price.
“Piece of art” Pal, its a slab of aluminum, some LEDs, and some keys. Sure, some of their stuff is like art; especially the macross inspired ones, but not this in any way
2:22 -- Didn't see anyone else mention it so I will. That "new car" smell that's there is actually just because of the plastic in what's called "off-gassing".
Yeah but keyboard flex on a laptop is different because its a different switchm mx mechnical switches have long travel and sometimes a hard hitting bottom out, so its nice to have some flex. laptop keystrokes are too short so if there is flex it feel like you are pressing into a cheap bending plastic table
For a laptop, flexing on the keyboard means the laptop itself is flexing and not as sturdy which is important cuz you carry it around. Keyboards sit on the desk most of the time, durability isn’t a huge factor.
Complete different types of switches and amounts of travel. Also traditionally it's not wbat someone just founf something else new to offer. The keyboard market always needs something new because any eve half decent board will last you 20+ years.
Honestly, I'm ok with them not adding a cable. If you are going that level of boutique you probably have an idea of exactly what length cord you want, what color, coiled or not, braided or not, or any other thing you can think of.
As a owner of this keeb its pretty good when you get used to it, i thought id really hate the "hhkb" layout but it's actually pretty good, and touch pad definitely works better then expected, but of course thats just my take on this but i personally like it
Without arrow keys, It would need to be able to swipe to move the caret around. Also, Ctrl or shift swipe to move to the start/end of words while selecting. Ctrl+home is missing and end so going to the start/end of a document may need you to resort to the mouse?
I think the point of not including a cable is like not including pedals on a modern performance bike. Everyone is going to need a different length, style, and colors to match the setup. No sense in including a cable that 60?% of people aren't going to use.
I see him using that thumb swipe for making a mid sentence fix when writing, and without taking your hand off the keyboard swiping it like you swipe on the spacebar on a smart phone keyboard to sweep through the words/letters.
It's a 60% HHKB. With a touch bar. No, I don't think a keyboard in this price range should come with a cable. That's a waste of money and useless environmental impact. I don't think the PCB is 3 pin only either, the poron foam is just not punctured where the 2 extra pins are because no 5 pin was ever installed and the only precut is for the center stem and LED (as you can tell by the fringing on the pin hole etc). Not a fan of the touch meme I think. Maybe it would be neat to have one on the right side of a keyboard though instead of a knob in the top right corner. That way you can keep all the keys people expect on a 65% and still include extra functionality there. Unsure about the cost and how easily supported that is in QMK though. I've become very averse to anything non-QMK since I picked up the QK65 tri mode, because the firmware has weird issues and QK doesn't seem to know what they're doing. For example, the BT is faster than the RF dongle. By quite a bit, actually.
They look awesome. I prefer the Laser myself as I find myself using the arrow keys, and the home, del, pg up and pg dn keys a lot. I do love a 65. My KBDFans Tofu 65 with Kiwis is super nice. It is one of the nicest cnc'd cases I've seen. As a miller myself I really appreciate it when companies put the effort into the fit and finish of their products. They are about to release the Tofu 60 and 65 2.0, which I am really tempted to treat myself to.
I cant believe they built this keyboard without support for split backspace, hhkb is my favorite layout, and would have gotten the board for a travel keyboard :(
It's a good review, and he clearly knows his stuff about custom mechs, however these keyboards are somewhat unattainable and out of budget for mainstream tech users. Perhaps it wouldn't appear on Short Circuit, but more entry level/budget mechs should be the focus. QK60, Tofu, NK65, KBD67 Lite, and so forth. It can make for a more approachable pathway into the hobby for viewers, as the prices are more accessible, and they aren't as restrictive on groupbuys (either unlimited group buys with several rounds, or just consistently in stock),
that 3 pin only thing is possibly wrong, there is a layer of pe foam that covers the 5pin holes if it exists as they havent been punched in. it would be really counterintuitive if they didnt have that option and want to appeal to a custom market nowadays all custom keyboard prebuilts that come with switches and switch add ons come prelubed in factory and are fairly done well albeit sometimes inconsistent
"It should feel as natural as hitting the spacebar with your thumb" When I'm typing I almost always use my right index finger, but when gaming I use my left thumb.
one is the case flexing, the other case is metal, and the flex is part of the plate. and this has lots travel in the switches and a laptop has short keys with no travel, its completely a different feel. I dont go on a trampoline and say omg the bounce is too much and get on carpet and say, oh there is too much flex in my wood floor
Curious if we could get a one year evaluation of the Wooting 60HE. I’m interested if the actuation/tuning software has been refined since, or if it’s just kinda fallen off the face of the universe. The granularity of Hall Effect keyboards is still fascinating, but I haven’t really heard about any HE stuff that’s not controller focused.
A cursory search across TH-cam would let you know the Wooting 60HE and Wooting 2 HE are the best gaming keyboards money can buy, and probably need to be banned from competitive E-sports. OSU players were literally keeping this board a secret because the rapid fire software allows them to make plays far past their normal ability. The number 1 OSU player broke the all time pp record directly after acquiring one. If I am being honest with you, I don't think LTT is a good place to learn about gear or reviews anymore. They have mistakes in almost all of their recent videos, don't seem to grasp what actually makes new products good, and it seems like they only "review" products as ads these days. They don't seem to care either, look at this video as an example. This is an objectively terrible board that is horrendously overpriced, riddled with marketing gimmicks, and doesn't even come with a USB cable. It wasn't that long ago where the only time you would see a product like this on an LTT channel was to roast it as hard as possible.
unless you're gonna be doing something like heavily modding a Keychron Q6 you're not really gonna get close to this sound with a full-size, they aren't really made
Ollie from Drain Addict? Oh no, it's Plouffe! Long lost brothers. 😉 Beautiful keyboards. Gonna be spensif but really high quality. I like. Plouffe really should have pealed the plastic on the touch bars and wireless charging coil. 😉
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
The arrow keys are the last thing I would take out of a 65% keyboard. This product is a miss for me
i mean you can use hhkb style fn+ keys as arrows, they work fine. I dont see them being any slower than normal arrows
@@hansr370 layered arrows are only nice if you don't need them as part of a hotkey
You get used to it. Put them in a layer and you don't even need to move your hand.
NGL don't remember when I last used my arrow keys.
A 65% without arrow keys is a 60%. I don't understand this marketing bs and why linus team insisted so much on it
This might be a controversial take, but I find arrow keys to be indispensable, whether for scrubbing videos, snapping windows, or sometimes navigating menus without moving my hands off the keyboard to a mouse. The idea of removing a tactile switch for effectively a swipe bar, just seems incredibly stupid as it makes the action I want the fastest to be slower than most actions. Seems like with a lot of these keyboards you're paying more for less, and although they are doing something 'different' it's sort of like with the current electric car scene (capacitive touch everything), in that you never asked the question of if the thing that is different is actually better or if it is worse for the general use case.
Yea different for the sake of being different is a gimmik, it seems more like a keyboard you would display rather than acutal use. When you start playing with layout you either hate your life as you use it or get used to it and hate using other keyboards. That odd lack from what I remember seeing without the control or if that special key was that its just asking for trouble.
Exactly. The swipe bar looks really inconvenient and the idea is just stupid. No one needs that
100% agree!
Personally this is one of the few less than keyboards I’d actually buy, for me gestures would make it so I can type with both hands and use them at the same time for that purpose I’d enjoy it, but I could def see why people wouldn’t
I can't not have arrow keys, page keys, or home and end keys. I've layered my page and home/end keys onto my arrow keys so they don't take up extra space, but I'd never layer away my arrow keys. I just use them way too much.
Removing the arrow keys and adding a touchpad is maybe the most Apple thing you can do to a keyboard
It is like that Onion video about the Macbook air with a touchwheel
I can kinda understand the value of it though. You don't have to reposition your right hand if you wanna use the arrow keys. But this feature isnt gonna make me switch from my Mx keys.
Even Apple wouldn't remove the arrow keys. It feels genuinely hostile to the user.
Next keyboard they release is going to be missing the number keys and a space bar lol
Maybe charge 500 usd for it.
Man, that first one would go great with a Noctua build. Perfect for the gamer who likes 50 shades of *B R O W N*
My ass read this as Bro WN
im looking to build my first custom keyboard and i would love to find a keyset that has those colors! :D
Agreed. Is there such a thing as an emergent aesthetic? That's the only way I can think to describe it. Looking at the individual parts/colours, I *should* not like the Noctua look even slightly, but taken as a complete package I absolutely adore it.
70s scifi themed build. Terracotta and cream tones, curved ergonomics, etc.
Syd Mead, _Silent Running, Space 1999_
Ma whole underpants alone is 50 shades of brown lmao 🤣
The swipe and “hold” actions are just literal translations of the arrow keys, I’m shocked it was mentioned as something special. It’s literally youtube’s UI advancing the video/changing the volume.
Yep, though he did mention he's never used arrow keys for that before too.
Man discovers the arrow keys have functions, would be a better video title.
It doens't seem this bar does anything special at all.
This is literally the definition of gimmick over comfort and common sense
Plus no cable, which can just be crazy inconvenient and like a weird cop-out to either save some money or simply not put effort into a quality cable worth keeping or that matches the colourway you purchased.
@@FrontwaysLarry if you're buying this in the first place, you're probably a keyboard enthusiast as its a group buy item. you should have ATLEAST 5 cables laying around 😂
I want to see a "110%" keyboard. Like a full keyboard but slightly bigger for people with wider shoulders and bigger hands/fingers
I just got a split keyboard and put it as wide as I want
im 6'8 with wide shoulders and I don't understand what you mean? I use my gmmk pro all day no problem. Just gotta get things centered up
zsa moonlander babyyyyy
The percentage is the number of keys, not the actual width of the board. A 65% could be extra wide like you want. No one makes that because the main reason people go for
@@northwestclasspnw7974 the thing is that ergonomically if you have wide shoulders it may not be that good for you to force and hold your arms to stay in a central position for extended periods of time. A more natural position would be to have each half of your keyboard close to where your shoulders are, or at least as far apart from the center as possible. Hence the other guy's comment of a wider 100+ % keyboard
Removing the arrow keys and the Ctrl key is probably the worst you could do to a "65% keyboard".
Seems like a keyboard for a person who does everything with a mouse.
it is not a 65% keyboard
It's an HHKB layout - the Ctrl key is supposed to go in the Caps Lock position, with the right FN key enabling a layer that then puts the arrow keys on the [;'/ keys
It's also only like 1 inch smaller than an actual 65%
It would be cool to use the touch pad to move the curser while typing. Saves you reaching for the mouse, or using arrow keys. Kinda like how swiping space bar works on most phones.
I solved this by rebinding my caps lock to a new layer modifier that makes IJKL into my arrows, among other things.
Some DIY boards have solder pads or spare I/O pins for tiny Pimoroni trackballs. My Kyria does, though I've not installed one, so I don't know how well it works.
Swiping a space bar? Never tried that.
Looks like my Android keyboard switches layers that way but I've always used a dedicated button. I have arrow key row below space bar anyway so this is better. (Smart Keyboard Pro)
It looks like without their software it's just sending the arrow keys, so swiping should move the cursor, or pretty much do whatever the arrow keys would do in a given situation.
i'll be honest I never understood the smaller keyboards. The only use IMO is if you have limited space but most people that own these have huge desks. Would love to see more of these but in 100%
Absolutely, i use the num pad and function row every single day.
it's for ergonomics- smaller keyboards lends more desk space for your mouse, which lets you have it closer too
Who doesn't use the arrow keys!?!?!?! That trackbar is not a valid replacement for me.
I got a 100% size and kinda wish I got a TKL, but I'd also want a separate numpad for calculator and spreadsheet work. But I agree; sucks seeing a race to make keyboards smaller and less useable for adults with adult hands.
I personally prefer my k95. I got the old k95 with more macro rows than the new one. I understand these small keyboards either.
So instead of just calling it a 60% keyboard, they called a 65 less... Why?
@@eammon_wright doesn't it make it as 35%
It's not even a 60%. It has less keys than a 60%. It's more like a 50%?
Pure marketing bs and I'm sad that they insisted so much on this stupid idea in the video
Marketing it makes you stop and look and talk about it that's all they need
So the layout of this keyboard is based on the HHKB (Happy Hacking Keyboard), which is pretty much a 60% layout. And the difference to a 65% keyboard is made up by the touchbar.
"less is more" :D
I read a braindead arstechnica article that popped up in my feed entitled *"Do mechanical keyboards really need arrow keys?"* about this keyboard. Here's a couple of comments from that article that hit the nail on the head:
_If you need arrow keys but hate arrow keys, try this touchpad. And you'll never guess where we put it!_
_Yes, they absolutely need arrow keys. Arrow keys are just like alt, tab, space, enter, etc.. They are vital parts of keyboard navigation that makes many tasks faster, easier, and lower effort than repeatedly switching my hands from keyboard to mouse._
_You need arrow keys because they're unambiguous when pushed. Touchpads can sometimes not quite translate the movements exact as you put them in, makes using them when you need to be accurate a nightmare._
_Looks like a bad solution looking for a problem most people don't have._
_A rare violation of Betteridge's Law_
Sweet, you can do what you can do with the arrow keys but inconveniently! I constantly use the arrow keys for scrubbing. I love the 8-bits design though.
I see a lot of discourse about the removal of arrow keys and its pretty valid. Personally I use split keyboards and something called Extend. I can hold a modifier (caps lock for me) and the buttons where my right hand sits for touch typing temporarily become up,down,left and right. I would use this even on a non split keyboard now its just lovely. So I could easily use this keyboard but I'm certain most people wouldn't make that adjustment.
These are the type of keyboards that look nice if someone else owns it.
All 5 pin switches can fit into 3 pin slots. You just gotta cut off the 2 plastic feet to put them in. Ive done it to all my switches for my current keyboard
@윤진 Yunjin It's because if you want to do a plateless build your switches are ruined.
I guess the gimmick feels natural because that's what we are already used to having with laptops. Using our thumbs also to play with the touchbar.
If only they made keyboards with trackpads on them (they do)
Yeah and on a laptop it's actually frustrating enough to not use the track pad. So putting this on a desktop sounds like windows 8 to me.
I remember the Roccat Arvo having little tactile macro keys below the space bar. (and an awesome 96% layout)
Under rated keyboard that one, used mine for ages
I used mine for so long that keys were no longer visible, unfortunately the USB cable kinda broke at the end but for the price it was so extremely good.
@@felixjochems1238 I poured milk over mine. And they are damn rare for a cheap rubberdome keyboard. One idiot in greece wants to sell it on ebay for 380€ sealed in box
I love custom keyboards but wow do those touch controls look like the most gimmicky, and frustrating thing to try and use as someone who is an avid enjoyer of dedicated arrow keys. Not a keyboard for me, but I like seeing keyboards on the channel! MORE.
It's very clever of them to call it "65 less" instead of "HHKB more". It's just not that many ppl know what HHKB is.
Hopefully the use of wireless charging for keyboards becomes more common. The video done on the topic for LTT made me realize how convenient it would be.
As for the Touch Bar, I was half-expecting something along the lines of what we used to have on a MacBook Pro.
Why though a keyboard doesn't move 😅 just use a cable it's more effective and faster
idk man. I guess it depends what size of battery you put in your keyboard, but I'd much rather just have a keyboard that can easily switch between wired and wireless.
For smaller keyboards, I like to bring it with me to use for my iPad or for those who play/work on a laptop while also owning a desktop. I have my TV hooked up to my PC and switch back and forth with my desktop monitors and being able to move my keyboard to my bed where my tv is at is very convenient.
I made it only matters because they chock it full of LEDs ignore those an it'll last for at least 6 months probably
You can move a keyboard even if it has a cable. Unless you're walking around with your keyboard having a cable is a non issue.
I know some doctors and nurses who would buy that in a millisecond even at that price. With all the typing they do for documentation, and moving from text box to drop down to text box it makes perfect sense to never have to move your hands. Plus it’s small enough to keep in their backpack. So it’s always with them, whatever computer they can find. Honestly considering how much I love my friend and if I should buy them this.
Plouffe's catch phrase: "My one complaint". My dude, it's not your one complaint if its your third "one complaint".
I feel like this is a keyboard that is making a solution for a problem that does not exist. Sure, it may "keep you from moving your hand from the home row" but is it really that imprtant? Keyboards already put strain on the wrists, the last thing that is needed is to also keep the hands in one position the entire time. And people who are obsessed with home row already have set up "the perfect layers" to achieve it.
I really, really don't get the appeal of Angry Miao keyboards. But I guess that's just a product not for me, and that's fine. Clearly it is a high quality product
Its not a 65% its a HHKB. You can also cut the 2 plastic pins off the 5 pin switches and use them in that PCB for that keyboard.
I really don't understand why someone would use a keyboard with less keys. I use the F keys all the time, i use page up/down home/end and delete all the time, i use print screen all the time. How do you do a Alt F4 in a keyboard like this?
Bang head against it. /s
I think this keyboard is meant for the person who wants compromise. I need F keys and modifiers for everything. If you need Alt F4 you'd probably just make a macro for that on this board.
It's just for difference sake, it's less keys, therefore less function's and cost a lot more... I can understand removing the numbers pad so you have more mouse movement space, but this removes even the freaking Ctrl key...
@@tjackman But there aren't even a macro row
@@shippy1001 I can understand a keyboard with no number pad, i use it a lot because i work and play with the same keyboard, but there are a lot of people that don't, but everything else is pretty much essential
Goodness that keyboard click sounds so good
The prices for this is insane. This is not a usable product, like it's more like a centerpiece.
You just summed up the modern enthusiast keyboard market
Wrist rest looks like a must for such a thick keyboard, but that would be in the way of the touchbar...
So basically you got a smaller keyboard that cuts off keys....then got a touch screen that functions as the keys you cut off? 🤦
and dont forget the extra $$$ you gotta pay
Okay but you say that because you're a writer you don't need function keys. That's fair, but you do lose a lot of convenience and speed when writing if you don't have Home/End/Delete, right?
I definitely thought that was going to be a trackpad for the mouse. Losing the arrow keys is not an upgrade 😂
I want a wireless keyboard with the red nub like my Lenovo laptop! I saw Lenovo made one themselves but the reviews were pretty bad
Check out the TEX Shinobi and their other keyboard. They are great, I have 2.
@@mcall9800 thanks! I’ll add that to the wishlist. Looks great. I wish it was wireless for my living room PC setup, but this could still be worth it
I appreciate the aesthetics but man, I NEED separate function row. I use those for keybinds in and out of games. Never understood 65%s.
I couldn't justify spending that amount of money for a keyboard - it's the cost of my recently built PC including storage media
The end of each of these keyboard reviews seems to be "it's hard to justify that price but if you want something cool maybe it's for you"
Cause they cost as much as a GPU or an entry level whole computer.
@@profosist people also spend 200 dollars on a GMK keycap set. It's an expensive hobby
@@ericajiang8917 right but that demographic isn't the bulk of LTT's audience
@@profosist totally right. lots of people here don't understand why keebs less than 75% exist.
@@ericajiang8917 I remember when those were a bit over $100
14:18 summarizes basically most Angry Miao products.
Anything is better than a magic keyboard
Unless you like scatology
yo mozart, i've been waiting for that new album for decades, where is it duh
Leave off my Magic Keyboard…
"You can use the touchbar for arrow keys" You know what else works as arrow keys? ARROW KEYS.
This keyboard is like, 10mm narrower than a 65%, why would you sacrifice such a critical cluster for that...
The touchbar is nice but having it instead of the actual keys and not having the full bottom row ones is just an apple move for absolutely no reason.
The front placement seems really awkward to use. I would have to pull my hand back towards me to use it and that would get tiring. Side makes more sense if it is useful at all.
The functionality is to be “unique”
Its an hhkb layout popularized in the Japanese Market 20 years ago. The touchbar is not related to the omission of the arrow keys
@@kinger2005 It's still a garbage layout, for gaming even workloads this is useless and you're better off with other keyboards which don't sacrifice feel, sound and performance. After all, this keyboard is not exactly "cheap" so options are very plentiful
Plouffe should start watching LTT/SC in order to use the arrows more often, to skip through the sponsor plugs.
Or learn to select text with a keyboard instead of a mouse.
Even though you would have to be entirely out of your goddamn mind to pay that much for it, I do appreciate that for once they reviewed a keyboard that isn’t already sold out by the time the video is released…
Yea, because nobody bought it, this keyboard equivalent would be like designing a car without side mirrors because it "looks cool"
Its not sold out because no one wants to buy it
This entire video is a sponsored ad by the manufacturer. They wouldn't release it unless they had product to sell.
@@johnwest6083 It's not sponsored - it's exclusive access. They sent LMG the product for free to check out.
@Terrobility and they didnt roast it like they obviously should
As a programmer, I like the idea of having touch bar on thumb to emulate arrow keys. Emacs (and bash emacs key bindings) use C-P etc keys so you can quickly move cursor around while typing. However, not all editors can be easily customized (partly due to too many key bindings). So a more generic approach using touch bar to move cursor without having the right hand leaving the home row would be really cool. If the touch pad could be replaced with physical buttons, I could imagine that could lead to more precise controls. I would totally get a TKL keyboard with additional arrow buttons / touch bar below the space bar.
Inspired by the Cybertruck? Does that mean it's going to be more fragile than advertised, have poor build quality, and have its battery explode?
It's pretty neat, but yeah it's just really expensive. Like, the upper models are 'get a current gen console' expensive near enough (and a game or several, if we're talking about the Switch).
As far as controls for when I watch a video, I just used a small wireless keyboard device called a Rii. It's basically a small keyboard + (crappy) touchpad about the size of a small controller (but pretty thin). With that I can jump/scrub back and forth in a video, and use the various keyboard shortcuts for the player (like 'c' for captions). In the event I want to jump large chunks of video, or if I want to click on another video like on YT, I can use the crappy touchpad for that. The Rii is no good for proper typing, as it's more an oversized blackberry (or on screen keyboard) in that respect, so dual wield thumbs if you're good at it I guess, but yeah I type and control M+KB games with my regular keyboard. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it if someone was keen on finding a decent way to control their video playback on their computer without using their main keyboard. I use it when I kicking back and watching videos on my computer.
When did the term "colorway" bleed into general parlance? I swear I'd never heard it before 2021.
Not crapping on it, but we didn't seem to have trouble just saying "color-scheme", "paint-style", etc. in the past.
probably shoes, sneaker heads call colourway all the time
@@hansr370 wouldn't be surprised because the keyboard Market is going much more that direction past couple years
I gotta stop watching these videos before this dude turns me into a keyboard guy
They can call that a 65 if they want, but it's a 60, with the keys it's missing.
a quick tour of the what modifier keys actually were would've been nice and what function layers they keyboard(s) have to offer
Companies need to start focusing on developing silent mechanical switches and keyboards, I only know one company so far that makes a near silent mechanical switch. I made a custom keyboard with those switches simply because my discord friends started complaining about how loud my previous mechanical keyboard was, and even using background noise cancellation and constant muting myself it was still an issue. Honestly, they were right, being on a call with a continuous clicking noise is really frustrating.
There are a lot of great silent options out there. My personal favorites are Gazzew Bobagum switches in a gummy o-ring mount keyboard.
I would imagine the lack of silent switches isn't because people don't want them. Instead, it's because most switches are tuned around sound, and a silent switch can only have one sound: silent. Once that's been figured out, there's not many ways to innovate besides different spring weights and increasing smoothness.
Boba U4 is a thing mate
STOP using blue switches lol, there are millions of slient switches out there already and unless you have some studio quality mic they are dead silent on the mic
it actually triggers me how many silent linear switch options there are. I really prefer switches with at least tactile feedback, but there's just not a lot of people making better switches in that market compared to silent linears.
@@s01itarygaming Gazzew U4, Wuque WS Silent, Durock Shrimp and Blue Macaw, Zeal Zilent and many others are silent tactile options.
These keyboard reductions are absolutely pointless from a user standpoint. Notice how the cost has not decreased by 35% as the keys and material involved have.
I can already say this is not a keyboard for me even though the 8 bit looks nice. But i actually have some games were i need arrow keys
I like the arrow keys on my Kinesis Advantage, where left/right is on the left hand and up/down is on the right hand, so you don't need to move your hands either. But you do have proper buttons.
A keyboard without numpad and arrows keys I skip doesn't matter how good it is, I still don't know how someone uses this keyboard.
I use a 65% (iirc) board for typing, and a separate numpad. I don't tend to use my arrow keys much because emacs, but that one I can see being *really* annoying if you use the arrows a lot.
Because many people never touched a numberpad in thier life, I know I do not. There is no use for me, I dont type number that often
So the "touch arrows" are just worse than normal arrows? Also what about the other "bar" on the back side (next to USB C)? Does it work or what. because it looks same as the front one to me.
The case is aluminium, which blocks Bluetooth signals. You find these kinds of "windows" on almost all Bluetooth boards that are made of aluminium. It allows the signal to get out of the case
I can't think of anything worse for a keyboard than no arrow keys and that touchpad in the front.
it's like devolution of a keyboard xDDD
Linus not sure if this is a actual product yet or not do a review on the Dyson Bluetooth headset /air purifying face mask
Not kidding, this is hidious. A keyboard thats a chore to use, its tall and heavy and cramped, the RGB is shit i dont think i can see the keys properly, the price obviously i far, far far prefer a cheap keyboard for a fiver to this
That reminds me of my Razer Lycosa Mirror. Still have it in storage, it was flippin awesome, just wish it was mechanical.
For once Plouffe came prepared by having an example product to compare against
Except it was a 65% and that's a 60%
Love the key click sounds
There was one thing that made this keyboard dead to me the moment I first saw it. The left control key position. An enthusiast brand like angry miao should know that most people who buy their keyboards are gamers and therefore uses the control key regularly for stuff like crouching. Having the control key in that awkward position is a massive oversight from their designers.
actually totally wrong haha, most of them are keyboard nerds LOL and they love the control at cap lock position, I dont know why but they do and that is their target audience, gamers are second
@@hansr370 Thast's funny. Most of the people I know in the keyboard enthusiast community are of course building keyboards. But when they're not they usually like gaming in their free time. I've built some keyboards in my time and I personally hate that sort of layout because it's impractical and hard getting used to.
HHKB 60% layout isn't an exactly a new layout and it is designed more for typing than gaming. Never used one myself but I heard the control is more comfortable reach in the caps lock position (and when was the last time you used caps lock). Arrow keys in this layout is usually done with layers (something like fn + pkl;) so that you don't have to have your hands leave the alphas.
And lets face it, people who would buy this keyboard wouldn't stop at 1 keyboard so they would most likely have a separate keyboard for gaming.
@@dakaringer That's true. I just personally hate that layout and find it unfortunate that there isn't an option for the traditional control key placement. I'm looking into building a keyboard on my own atm and had hoped the next drop from angry miao might be what I would go with. That's probably not going to be the case since I dislike the layout.
Thats enough for a CPU or GPU upgrade for most people, hard no.
and insignificantly cheap for people with water cooled rigs with 4090 in it so there are plenty of customers. and they are only making like a few hundred they will sell, you are not their target anyway
The answer to this is thumb keys. I just use a keychron alice kb and thumb fn + ijkl for arrow keys.
I don't think you can compare the price of this keyboard to normal stuff. Its a rare product and more of a piece of art then a tool.
People like me would never buy such a thing, even for half the price, but others who are into it will pay any price.
“Piece of art”
Pal, its a slab of aluminum, some LEDs, and some keys. Sure, some of their stuff is like art; especially the macross inspired ones, but not this in any way
2:22 -- Didn't see anyone else mention it so I will. That "new car" smell that's there is actually just because of the plastic in what's called "off-gassing".
That's how you know the foam they're using is the good stuff!
I guess it's just preference, but I find it strange how keyboard flex is a negative on laptops, but a positive for keyboards
This is predictable I feel, also this is the keys moving vs the entire deck and platform of a laptop moving
Yeah but keyboard flex on a laptop is different because its a different switchm mx mechnical switches have long travel and sometimes a hard hitting bottom out, so its nice to have some flex. laptop keystrokes are too short so if there is flex it feel like you are pressing into a cheap bending plastic table
For a laptop, flexing on the keyboard means the laptop itself is flexing and not as sturdy which is important cuz you carry it around. Keyboards sit on the desk most of the time, durability isn’t a huge factor.
Complete different types of switches and amounts of travel. Also traditionally it's not wbat someone just founf something else new to offer. The keyboard market always needs something new because any eve half decent board will last you 20+ years.
Also there's not enough internal room to fit in leaf-spring mount on any thin keyboard.
That’s probably the thickest keyboard I’ve seen yet!
Hello wrist pain my old friend
So it’s a 60% but not a 60%… got it.
Honestly, I'm ok with them not adding a cable. If you are going that level of boutique you probably have an idea of exactly what length cord you want, what color, coiled or not, braided or not, or any other thing you can think of.
Same!
I don’t even go to that level and I get custom cables.
It’s kind of a waste when keebs come with default cables >
As a owner of this keeb its pretty good when you get used to it, i thought id really hate the "hhkb" layout but it's actually pretty good, and touch pad definitely works better then expected, but of course thats just my take on this but i personally like it
Another review of something exclusive and or overpriced.. good job guys.
Without arrow keys, It would need to be able to swipe to move the caret around. Also, Ctrl or shift swipe to move to the start/end of words while selecting.
Ctrl+home is missing and end so going to the start/end of a document may need you to resort to the mouse?
Or you just use arrow keys Ina layer like any other 60% board.
I think the point of not including a cable is like not including pedals on a modern performance bike. Everyone is going to need a different length, style, and colors to match the setup. No sense in including a cable that 60?% of people aren't going to use.
Bingo. 90% of the time that cable goes into a box to never be used again.
I see him using that thumb swipe for making a mid sentence fix when writing, and without taking your hand off the keyboard swiping it like you swipe on the spacebar on a smart phone keyboard to sweep through the words/letters.
My Goodness, Noctua themed keyboard ;)
Soo.. how does one do ctrl+c ctrl+v on this thing?
God these keyboard reviews are really pretentious
Disappointed that the box for the cybertruck one wasnt just empty
It's a 60% HHKB. With a touch bar.
No, I don't think a keyboard in this price range should come with a cable. That's a waste of money and useless environmental impact.
I don't think the PCB is 3 pin only either, the poron foam is just not punctured where the 2 extra pins are because no 5 pin was ever installed and the only precut is for the center stem and LED (as you can tell by the fringing on the pin hole etc).
Not a fan of the touch meme I think. Maybe it would be neat to have one on the right side of a keyboard though instead of a knob in the top right corner. That way you can keep all the keys people expect on a 65% and still include extra functionality there. Unsure about the cost and how easily supported that is in QMK though.
I've become very averse to anything non-QMK since I picked up the QK65 tri mode, because the firmware has weird issues and QK doesn't seem to know what they're doing. For example, the BT is faster than the RF dongle. By quite a bit, actually.
Couldn't agree more with the first two statements what's the point of a cable I'm just going to throw away and use my own
These keyboards that are missing half of the keys seem like keyboards for people who don't know how to use a keyboard.
This is a keyboard made by people that follow trends without knowing a single thing about keyboards. All the features, even if they're useless.
They look awesome. I prefer the Laser myself as I find myself using the arrow keys, and the home, del, pg up and pg dn keys a lot. I do love a 65. My KBDFans Tofu 65 with Kiwis is super nice. It is one of the nicest cnc'd cases I've seen. As a miller myself I really appreciate it when companies put the effort into the fit and finish of their products. They are about to release the Tofu 60 and 65 2.0, which I am really tempted to treat myself to.
First
I understand getting a smaller keyboard if you are short on space, but, no arrow keys??? Efficiency down the drain for every program you use.
I cant believe you've never opened a box and stated 'Oh look its a message from our sponsor' Seems like a missed opportunity. 🤷♀
I cant believe they built this keyboard without support for split backspace, hhkb is my favorite layout, and would have gotten the board for a travel keyboard :(
Yep they just killed quite a bit of functionality for a bit more keycap compatibility
Has Noctua brainwashed us into loving brown PC peripherals? Or was it always deep inside us? Cause that genuinely looks cool. I love it.
I don't think that has anything to do with noctua lol, i think its probably some classic design they are trying to imitate
@@hansr370 Nah it’s 100% a Noctua design. They’re the exact same colours as the fans, and even have a similar logo on the Esc key.
It's a good review, and he clearly knows his stuff about custom mechs, however these keyboards are somewhat unattainable and out of budget for mainstream tech users.
Perhaps it wouldn't appear on Short Circuit, but more entry level/budget mechs should be the focus. QK60, Tofu, NK65, KBD67 Lite, and so forth. It can make for a more approachable pathway into the hobby for viewers, as the prices are more accessible, and they aren't as restrictive on groupbuys (either unlimited group buys with several rounds, or just consistently in stock),
that 3 pin only thing is possibly wrong, there is a layer of pe foam that covers the 5pin holes if it exists as they havent been punched in. it would be really counterintuitive if they didnt have that option and want to appeal to a custom market nowadays all custom keyboard prebuilts that come with switches and switch add ons come prelubed in factory and are fairly done well albeit sometimes inconsistent
Too expensive for what it is, especially with missing keys replaced by a gimmick bar.
Programming would be amazing with this no need to move hand to arrow key you can swipe with your thumb
Have you heard about our lord and saviour Vim?
It's also missing control, home, and end keys. It's garbage for working with text.
2:16 good channel name
Those light up clear caps look so cool!!
Perhaps if the weren't gloss it would be better for typing
"It should feel as natural as hitting the spacebar with your thumb"
When I'm typing I almost always use my right index finger, but when gaming I use my left thumb.
"Ugh this laptop has case flex" ... "Wow this keyboard has case flex" 🤣
one is the case flexing, the other case is metal, and the flex is part of the plate. and this has lots travel in the switches and a laptop has short keys with no travel, its completely a different feel. I dont go on a trampoline and say omg the bounce is too much and get on carpet and say, oh there is too much flex in my wood floor
Curious if we could get a one year evaluation of the Wooting 60HE. I’m interested if the actuation/tuning software has been refined since, or if it’s just kinda fallen off the face of the universe. The granularity of Hall Effect keyboards is still fascinating, but I haven’t really heard about any HE stuff that’s not controller focused.
A cursory search across TH-cam would let you know the Wooting 60HE and Wooting 2 HE are the best gaming keyboards money can buy, and probably need to be banned from competitive E-sports. OSU players were literally keeping this board a secret because the rapid fire software allows them to make plays far past their normal ability. The number 1 OSU player broke the all time pp record directly after acquiring one.
If I am being honest with you, I don't think LTT is a good place to learn about gear or reviews anymore. They have mistakes in almost all of their recent videos, don't seem to grasp what actually makes new products good, and it seems like they only "review" products as ads these days. They don't seem to care either, look at this video as an example. This is an objectively terrible board that is horrendously overpriced, riddled with marketing gimmicks, and doesn't even come with a USB cable. It wasn't that long ago where the only time you would see a product like this on an LTT channel was to roast it as hard as possible.
angrymiau’s logo is suspiciously close to the madcatz logo, even the names have similar meanings
What are some full-size keyboards (with media keys and macros) that sound like this one?
unless you're gonna be doing something like heavily modding a Keychron Q6 you're not really gonna get close to this sound with a full-size, they aren't really made
Ollie from Drain Addict? Oh no, it's Plouffe! Long lost brothers. 😉
Beautiful keyboards. Gonna be spensif but really high quality. I like. Plouffe really should have pealed the plastic on the touch bars and wireless charging coil. 😉