LTT Kenesis Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2025
- Recorded live on twitch, GET IN
/ theprimeagen
Kinesis Advantage 360: bit.ly/Prime-K...
Become a backend engineer. Its my favorite site
boot.dev/?prom...
This is also the best way to support me is to support yourself becoming a better backend engineer.
Reviewed video: • The best keyboard I’m ...
By: / @shortcircuit
MY MAIN YT CHANNEL: Has well edited engineering videos
/ theprimeagen
Discord
/ discord
Have something for me to read or react to?: / theprimeagenreact
Hey I am sponsored by Turso, an edge database. I think they are pretty neet. Give them a try for free and if you want you can get a decent amount off (the free tier is the best (better than planetscale or any other))
turso.tech/dee...
[23:35] "Who uses capslock? SQL Engineers." Fuckin gottem
"engineers"
ENGINEERS
You haven't worked on a big enough project if you don't believe SQL can be engineering. I'm a DevOps Engineer and have been stumped before trying to understand & optimize SQL based DBs in certain situations.
@@hundvd_7
Lol! I do use it though, if there's 3 or more capital letters.
real gamers know the best flame is all caps or no caps
ofc he didn't turn off alerts
He never turns off alerts!
The man needs an alert to turn off the alerts!
It's my hope that they give him lots of joy.
There is one constant in the universe, it is this
of course not, obligatory "forgot to turn off alerts"
The "stands" on the glove80, aka the legs, have been treating me quite well. The included ones are easy to adjust, and they have different height rods if you want to try more extreme tilting. It allows you to really fine-tune your exact tenting angle, and it isn't that finicky. They also ship with O-rings, which is nice to keep the legs locked just right. What I ended up doing, because I need extreme-ish tilting, was buying my own rods (which are of a standard size, m4 or something) and nyloc nuts (which they recommend in the user manual) and fixing the tenting angle on the rods to exactly what I want. They provide extra leg bottoms with the keyboard btw, so the only reason I had to buy anything was to go for extreme tilting.
+1 for Glove80, got mine two weeks ago.
I’ve had mine for a while now with brown switches, and absolutely love it.
Use it with standard Dvorak on all my systems.
Also, for people in Europe it’s cheaper to get than a Kinesis.
+1 for glove80, ordered mine last week. Desperately waiting for it to arrive.
Is the dished design significantly improving over something like the ZSA Moonlander, for someone who doesn't need the wireless features? End result is getting pricey, but the tents for Moonlander seem substantial at least. I'm coming from mostly gaming/mechanical keyboards and definitely feeling my age with longer writing and coding sessions. Currently use just a Logitech K860 but I'm inevitably led back to the luxury of RGB and mechanical keyboards whenever I can.
+1 here too. Got mine with kailh white clickys, and switched to colemak-dh layout. By far it's already my favourite keyboard.
Glove80 user here. I adjusted the height once at the beginning and it is enough. Apart from that, I like the cheap feeling. My wife still hasn't asked me about the price.
I looked it up and it's the keyboard I've been dreaming! But I'm not rich
My hands were starting to suffer RSI; the Glove80 has solved it completely. It justified the cost easily, as the pain of worse RSI would have cost me far more in lost income if I didn't get it.
After having tried the model 100, Ergodox ez, the glove80 has been a great great board for my RSI, and is a decent enough middle ground on configuration
Also use the glove80. I have mine mounted on my chair's arm rests. It's fantastic.
Look the cost might seem like a lot but its something that you use for 8-10 hours a day and it'll last for a decade at least. Compared to the cost for handling RSI and the various tunnels, it's just not even close.
@@draakisback yeah, its pretty clear every decision for this board has been dictated by ergonomics first
This keyboard absolutely saved me from having to get carpel tunnel surgery and has allowed me to heal so much over the last 2 years that I can rock climb and do bench press again. Anyone who scoffs at the price needs to consider the medical bill and quality life change of ruined wrists.
These keyboards are to programmers what professional running shoes are to athletes. I can still use a basic qwerty keyboard here and there when I'm on the move, the same way I can use Vans when I'm walking around. But if I have a programming session, I use this keyboard the way a runner would use proper running shoes to avoid injury.
I know there are cheaper ergonomic split keyboards out there, but none check all of the boxes for me like the Kinesis Advantage 360 Pro does. It is so sturdy, I even use it when I'm laying on the couch or bed; I just put either half on the side of my body, and since it is split, it is small enough to snuggly fit in my messenger bag without worry of anything snapping or breaking.
Get a Corne bro, way better and more modern.
@@bobbastian760 Doesn't look as durable. Also, doesn't look like the tenting is anywhere near as sturdy or versatile as the Kinesis. Also, no key wells.
I have the wired version of this keyboard. I like it more than my advantage 2 that I also own. I like the fact you can spread your arms out wider and achieve a more natural ergonomic elbow position.
Also, I upgraded the USB cable to 2 ft with RGB. Now I can type extra wide while still having that gamer feeling. I also bought the pads. Worth it for me. Love the magnet connection. Allows for easy cleaning.
Corne, 80% smaller - way better.
I used to think that having a Bluetooth keyboard would be a bad idea, but after using a wireless Corne with ZMK for 2 months, I've changed my opinion. ZMK supports wired mode (you don't even need batteries) so Bluetooth is an optional addon that helps when working with multiple PCs. I have mine wired to my main PC, and when i need to switch to my laptop, it's as simple as toggling between bluetooth/wired mode, and switching to a bt profile (there are 5). No need to swap cables between PCs. Also, you can have 5 active BT connections, so no noticable lag when switching bt profiles. In summary, wired works - Bluetooth is an optional addon. 🎉
Batteries on keyboards last forever too as long as you don't have the RGB disco mode on. Like weeks or months.
Also i would say that having a 2.4ghz dongle keyboard is infintely better than just having bluetooth, I would never go with bluetooth again after using a keychron for a long time, also windows integration of bluetooth sucks ass
@@zednik8956 also not all computers support bluetooth
What controller are you using on your Corne? Is it the nice!nano or some other board? Fast switching would be a real QoL change for me.
last I checked zmk didn’t have wired split yet, you can connect the master side with a wire ad it communicates with the computer over that wire but it will only communicate to the peripheral side over bluetooth (though I think you can set up charging passthrough so for all practical intents and purposes it’s basically a wired split but probably with slightly higher latency)
Bought a Kinesis 360 (non-Pro) a couple months ago. My WPM is almost where it was with a TKL keyboard but I am much happier with this. First thing I did was remap the DELETE key to ESC, major upgrade for Vim life.
ok, the moment you've started to search within the file system with terminal was super nice
I'm a freelancer dev and a hobbyist writer, so my life is basically a race to get enough money to buy an ergonomic keyboard before my hands stop working
nice mid-stop is MS Sculpt - not as fancy as the Kinessis, and sadly not mechanical, but a very nice option. I have 3 of those at once - one I bough for myself, and two are from two different jobs that I got to take home after I moved on :)
I just wish there was a low profile mechanical keyboard in the same chassis...
Just build any split ergo keyboard. If you solder one yourself it can be less than $100.
I got one last year and it is awesome I hope you get one soon
@@Qrzychu92 I would do lots of things to get my hands on a mechanical version of the ms sculpt - I keep trying new keebs, and keep coming back to the sculpt.
currently saving money for a chair that costs more than my sectional couch.
2:26 plus the 1km long space bar we have on standard keyboards is not a very clever idea.
it's named "space" for a reason
I'd say it is clever. I tried shifting all keys up by one, so the zxcv row became a thumb cluster and it was painful. If you observe what motion the thumb is meant to do, it makes sense that you can just swipe the thumb unga bunga and roughly press space.
@@theodorealenas3171you made me laugh out loud, thank you
what the fuck is a kilometer!?!!
Stupid Americans
@ThePrimeTime - I own Glove80 and its super light. Some may say its cheap because of that but its pretty sturdy IMO. Stands are good too just not something you can adjust quickly but its more precise
that thing looks yuge bro - corne is tiny and likely much more versatile - and portable.
I have been a SWE for a couple of years now - a colleague of mine had a herniated disc - probably also because he cheaped out on ergonomics. Ergo doesn't need to be expensive either, before buying a $500 keyboard consider the following items:
1. Get a good chair - height adjustable (your back will thank you) made of a breathable material (sweating sucks)
2. Get a monitor that's height adjustable - if it isn't adjustable, prop it up with books. So that your neck is straight when you look at it.
3. Get a table that is tall enough so that your arms rest at a right angle ( Having arm-rests on the chair helps a lot!)
3. Get a keyboard - ergo or not. Avoid working with a laptop only - the hunched over position is really bad - leads to muscle tension and an overall bad posture.
A good budget friendly option is the Markus chair from Ikea. ticks everything you mentioned and it's like 150€ and comes with a 10 year warranty. And while you're at a IKEA get a 15€ foot rest. Also most people will do well enough with a normal ergonomic keyboard in the 35-100€ range. Kinesis et al. are the gilded pens of programmers. It's nice to get nice stuff for your profession but you can just as well write a novel using a regular Lamy.
@@bcfuerst Admittedly I have a more fancy chair - I can suggest the *Herman Miller Mirra Chair* Which I picked up for $200 in an office yard sale. Cool thing is you can buy replacement parts; seat broken - you take an Alan-key and the replacement seat and exchange it. I like to do buy used in most cases... You get better stuff for less - and the environment is also better off...
Daily exercise and a healthy deit also greatly prevents this.
All good points, and any one of them can have major impact. For me, the biggest game changer so far was a height adjustable standing desk. I find that I usually only stand for about one hour during the working hours, but this already makes a difference in my posture and overall decreases the tension in many muscles.
My one wired consession was to get that logitech charging mousepad and wireless charging mouse. Means the cable goes neatly to the pad, and my mouse doesn't cable snag, but also never runs flat of charge. Its amazing.
You've been reaaaaaally making me want to try the Kenesis. Looks like it could help wrist pain when I obsessively hyperfixate on some code in all my free time for several weeks.
The thumb cluster is certainly intimidating.
Do it! I can type for hours without pain now. Took ~two weeks to get there though.
Also I kinda disagree on the wireless take. But I'm heavily using the Bluetooth profiles to switch between devices. Charging is required only once a month or something. ZMK isn’t really user friendly though for customizing / updating. That’s the Pro in the name of the 360.
Kinesis contoured keyboard are game changing and life changing. The thumb clusters are amazing once you figure them out. (And provided you have “average” sized hands. I’ve put Command, Alt, Ctrl, Esc on the left hand 1u keys, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn on the right. Love it.
I printed, built, and use a Dactyl Manuform as my primary keyboard. Absolutely love the freedom to recline back a bit and keep my arms spread apart while i write code
I have been daily driving a Dactyl Manuform. I ended up spending over $200 and 30 hours of soldering, but it has been very well worth it.
Not ashamed to admit it, I got the Kinesis 360 because I saw you use it. Probably the best purchase I've made for my Software Development Career.
strongly recommend looking into building your own kb if you wanna take the next step. I have a wireless split kb and have to recharge once every 6 month thanks to 10A batters on each side.
john hammond would be flying around the room trying to type his name
I have switched to a ZSA Voyager, for the first time and... My god is tough to change to layers and colemak.. but I know is a good investment, I can feel it :)
I've been using the same for about 3 months now and love it. I'm not doing colmak though just qwerty with extra stuff based on my usage ( like better placement of single quote character)
@@ZombieJigfor better or worse I went the whole miryoku way, with customization... It's a process.. let's just say so
Honestly the layers and the thumb clustering weren't the worst adjustment for me. It's finding the time to sit down and get to where I can touch type something other than qwerty
+1 for the voyager! You can also move the alphas up one row for extra thumb keys... and even tilt the keycaps for a more ergo key bowl.
I use the moonlander, tbh I never bother to change from QWERTY, after searching there was not enough actual research that points out any benefit from not using QWERTY.
So I just needed to adapt to using layers and now I cant go back to not having it.
Another major change that I love is using auto shift, is just too good.
I had a Kinesis Gaming keyboard that shorted out. Decided to try the ZSA Moonlander keyboard. Loved the ability to tent the keyboard but didn’t like the complexity. Company was nice enough to send me new rubber feet for free, though. I saw that the Kinese Gaming keyboard has a tenting attachment now. I immediately reordered the Kinesis Gaming keyboard with tent kit. My favorite setup yet. Neck pain is gone and I can assign stratagems to the macro keys.
I definitely identified with the wrist pain issue. I experience that shooting pain when I get into heavy programming sessions; which is off an on enough that I never associated the pain to my keyboard ergonomics. I am an avid gamer as well and just figured my pain was from playing too long (which yes that is part of the issue); however, I play games pretty much every night and the wrist pain doesn't always present itself. Watching this video made me realize it is in conjunction with heavy programming sessions. The issue of reaching for the symbol keys is spot on. I use the [ ], ( ), and { } a lot and when you said that about reaching those it clicked. I don't ever use those keys in gaming, but am constantly using them in programming. I can't wrap my mind around the thumb clusters, so I don't think the Kenesis is the keyboard for me, but thanks to your chat I am now researching alternate keyboards mentioned (specifically looking at the Glove80 right now).
The issue is not rest vs float, the issue is relaxing your muscles when not actually typing. It's the tension in your muscles with no relief that gives you RSI. It's a mental thing, relax when not actually pressing. If floating helps you do that, fine, but it's the relaxing that is what you need.
I would rather pay extra to NOT have RGB thanks
Exactly
You would pay extra to not have a feature that you could turn off?
@@shmink2 Yeah and having to turn it off every single time I turn on the computer. So I turn on the computer, turn off the monitor RGB, turn off the desktop RGB, turn off the mouse RGB then turn off the keyboard RGB.
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein It sucks a lot if you have to turn it off but most keyboards you just turn it off once and it's off until you enable the rgb no?
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein I've never owned a kb that i couldn't turn rgb off permanently in software or built-in
@ThePrimeTime the dock is designed for multimedia developers, like if you have to link cameras, laptops, and other items. dealing with portable data for your station. this one is not for laptops directly but for bridging a desktop 'battle station' for all your other devices. heavily needed for some fields, mainly video production
It is for laptops mainly, as seen in the ad itself. I have a similar Thunderbolt 4 dock to have my monitor and all the peripherals, as well as Ethernet and power, to connect to my laptop via a single cable.
As a mechanic that also codes I can say the keyboards in this thumbnail looked like some futuristic lathe parting tool inserts with the most insane chip breaker feature I ever seen in my life. After seeing its not the tool insert, but a keyboard I started designing it like I saw it and now I successfully sell lathe parting tool inserts with insane chip breaker features and created generational wealth. Without you I would've probably landed on the streets and died from getting crushed by a cinderblock but now I can look back on my life and be proud! Thanks to ThePrimeTime for creating this inspiring thumbnails- Keep up the good work man
i like to goon on my parting chips
A mechanic that codes? That is super cool.
Absolutely, thank you! I discovered coding during my apprenticeship and invested my free time in mastering it. I find it fascinating because it bridges the gap between virtual and physical realms, making it appealing for anyone who enjoys creating. Currently, I find a balance between working on tangible projects and immersing myself in the digital realm. However, my passion lies in pursuing my own coding projects, as I see greater potential in them compared to my traditional 9-5 employment.@@ZombieJig
I'm so happy with how fast you could turn your life around! In fact, this comment inspired me to change my life around myself. I'm now 7 years sober, am married and our second child is on it's way! Thanks for your comment for inspiring me to change my life for the better!
Thanks sir. Embracing change, failure, rejection and beeing ready to feel uncomfortable is the key. Growth is hard and painful. Thats why most people fail to change. "Stay yourself".. what a bunch of brainwashing... Aim WAY higher than you think its possible for humans and you will get to your previous goals with ease and wonder what tf happened with yourself. You can literally change your behavior and become a different person by thinking about what the person that has what you desire would do in each situation in your own life and choosing the way that this person would go every time. If you really want it you will automatically do the required things to become this exact person that you envisioned. So thats literally the only thing you need to do: Thinking about a imaginary person that owns all personal traits you REALLY want including all important details and you just start acting this person. At first you will fail of course, but you will finally notice where you fail and know how you should adapt. Thats why I said be ready to feel uncomfortable. Once you start dreaming you need to go through the suck of it to proof to the universe, god, whatever that you really want it with all your heart. The power is in you and its in the present moment and you know what? You are already doing this and never did anything else. Your thoughts are your entire reality bro. Let me repeat this: Your thoughts are your ENTIRE reality and they always were. If you take this to extremes you literally are resposible for everything that ever happened to you wheather good or bad. Society, schools etc will mystify this and not teach you shit about how to use it. Its 100% on purpose so you stay within your frame of "me", teach you that failure is a F and as a result everybody seeks a simple life where failure or rejection just cannot happen to them anymore, aka a 9-5. . Nobody talks about it while its one of the powerful things I ever learned and as you see most favorite thing to talk about. I hope you can use all this information! Let's grow! @@apacheopenoffice4.1.14
Shortcircuit is an unboxing/first impressions channel not a full review channel
"Unboxing +", not a "Review -", like Linus said
Got one of these recently once they had a pro version with pink switches. Game changer no more wrist pain from a previous injury. You can’t put a price on your health
Been using the Kinesis for a few weeks now. Loving it. I tried getting the Ergodox a few years back, didn't work for me: the symbol layout (due to the lack of keys) was messed up. The concave key well also makes the ortholinear layout a lot more sensible, especially for people with tiny hands like me... being able to reach things with the pinky is neccessary!
I got a split keyboard just a few weeks ago, the moonlander. And thus far I love it. my wrists have thanked me, Many reviews I watched on the moonlander before I got it said that they only use two of the four thumb keys. But Idk how, I use them all, all the time.
btw. after a few weeks, my type speed is now about 50-70 percent of my normal is. still getting used to it
I use only all on the right cluster. On the left side, I only use it it one button there 🙂 But yeah, Moonlander is awesome especially because of the layers.
I read an old research paper a while back, they had found that few users who used a keyboard in excess of 8 hours per day complained about pain, that more who used just a mouse experienced pain, and that those who used both for longer than 7 hours a day were guaranteed to experience pain.
You don't need an ergonomic keyboard or keyboard layout if you switch to a keyboard-driven workflow and avoid the mouse like the plague, but they sure are nice and I never looked back after switching to my dactyl 6x6. However if I get another, I will customize the stl for my finger length, get the 6x4 and use more mod keys.
Most people are too stupid to understand what an ergonomical setup is. Mouse might just be worse on unergonomic setups
You misspelled Kinesis in your title - might wanna change it.
He's just Ken
Love seeing ergonomics discussed. MoErgo keyboard I the goat. IMO. Worth checking out
1:40 I think Prime just feels natural resting his elbows further away from his body than his shoulders naturally allow them to rest, which would make having your hands closer together feel bad, but for a lot of people it is most comfortable to have their upper arms just right next to their body with their elbows at a 90 degree angle and that keyboard layout (which seems similar to my Alice Keychron V10) is much more comfortable for sitting like that.
I use a ZSA Moonlander and its a unit. Reduced to 42 key layout and added some layers. So nice to have an ergo keyboard honestly, game changer no doubt.
I've just got a glove 80 and its great. Had never used a ergonomic keyboard before this now im all in changed to vim, engram key layout full touch typing
ayy also going with the engrammer once i switch
Owning my Advantage 2 for 13 years now. Made me learn Dvorak and stick with it. Incredibly reliable keyboard. Did a QMK mod a year ago after spilling a large amount of water over it lol. Had one warranty claim within their warranty period back then and they just send me the needed replacement switch and let me solder it in myself without invalidating my warranty yeah! Lately I need more room on my table and am traveling a lot with my keyboard and am exploring the Corne v3 for that. But Kinesis is my biggest love in tech. Will probably add Mill Max sockets to make the switches replaceable.
That ugreen dock is awesome. Definitely recommend a dock, the io expansion, coupled with being nearby on the desk and not behind a desktop pc which is possibly under the desk and heavy af. 1 USB-C cable and my laptop is charging, using my two monitors, desktop mouse and keyboard, webcam, and ethernet are all connected to my laptop which automatically shuts off screen for me to tuck away laptop and get to work.
I am actually planning to buy this baby, I already have a vertical mouse since I could already feel the strain on my wrist using regular mouse.
EDIT: I posted this comment before the video ended. I saw Glove80 at the end, and actually wanted to try it first since I do like to have dedicated Fn keys
I have 4 layers on my ZSA Moonlander.
1. the normal layer
2. a layer with a numpad that I never use, and some symbols, function keys, and some other stuff (so I can write ö á å æ ø)
3. a layer so I can press a function key and a normal letter (so I can do F3 A, etc in Minecraft)
4. a layer with the reset button as well as some color controls, and a way to move the cursor and click using the keyboard.
I mostly only use the first 2, then I use the last 2 in special situations.
i basically have the same. though i do use the numpad a good bit. i generally dislike entering numbers using the standard numkeys above the keyboard. its why i bought a nice full keyboard with browns like 4 years ago. now i use the moonlander since im going full into software dev and engineering.
I have 4 layers but I only ever use two most of the time. My secondary layer contains a mouse navigation layer (plus some pgup + page down and navigation keys for scrolling pages if I need to) for short clicks around websites when I don't want to lift my hands off of my keyboard. Three third rarely used layer is my numpad layer giving me full numpad on my right hand. The fourth layer I rarely ever use is for backlight controls - brightness up/down, patterns if I'm feeling fancy or whatever.
You did experiment with a Dactyl Manuform at one point however. That combined with your absolutely insane proficiency in Vim is what got me hooked.
My impression of his take on the reprogramming was that the pro keyboard should support the simpler GUI in addition to the ZMK support. That way the people that wanted to use the GUI for some simple changes could, but the more power users could continue to use ZMK if they wanted.
Switched to this keyboard on a whim a few weeks ago after seeing your unboxing video. Took about a week to adjust to it but I love it now, as it feels a lot more natural to use. I have never had any wrist problems with keyboards, though so I can't speak to any benefits in that sense. Minor typing speed improvements, thing it's the first time I have passed 100 wpm, but I think that is mostly due to using all of my fingers as previously I would only use index, middle, and ring finger on my right hand and would use my left hand to reach for some right hand keys.
Get a Corne bro - 80% of the plastic removed, you don't need that many keys, pick your own switches including chocs - WAY better than this hunk of plastic.
@@bobbastian760 Why have you commented to like 10 people saying buy a corne. There are so many reasons that the Corne is not "WAY" better than this "hunk of plastic" whether its key wells or simply durability. No need to justify your purchase by making others feel like they should do the same.
crone, sweep some of them if you get without led or a mini screen you can get away without charging them for 6 months. The are also split.
11:24 I can see why Primeagen has that order. I got the moon lander as it was an ortho-linear keyboard, now I'm looking into a keyboard with those things in mind. Either way it was a better choice for me, but then I realized there are better options. Moon lander is more customizable then the Kinesis, and I have done some that has improved the experience.Now I'm looking into a dactyl keyboard, but with so many options it is hard to choose one.
I was always sceptical about wireless keyboards/mouse/gamepads but I recently bought Keychron mouse that supports wire(1000Hz),bluetooth(125Hz) and 2.4GHz(1000Hz and 4000Hz!) and it works so good at 1000Hz in 2.4GHz mode that they got me. I absolutely don't feel any lag, there is none instability, it is just perfect. On the other hand my older keychron keyboard works so bad on bluetooth that I use it only in wire mode, but ofc you are right, who really needs wireless keyboard for desktop.
I really like the consistency that having the two halves fused gets you, Advantage2 4 ever
"You depress the button"
...
I literally laughed out loud.
I've never used ZMK based keyboards before, but can you program stuff like double tapping a key to make it do something different? Hold it to do something different? I make use of that in my QMK based keyboards quite a bit, and once you figure out how you want to set it up and get used to it it's incredibly nice.
@32:52 if they'd used QMK they could possibly get VIA support on the thing, then you get the best of both worlds. Nice web based config for people that want that, and you can still compile your own keymap using QMK and get as train emoji as you want with it if you don't
Yes. Mod-tap, tap-dance, hold-mod, etc. are all their but the way they're configured is a bit different so getting the timing right gets a bit a weird. I was able to port my Corne layout from QMK to ZMK but the same timings don't work the same. Bilateral combinations are supported out of the box without using something like Achordion or having to program the logic yourself.
I think both run on the same "Core" so whatever you use the only thing diffrent is the fact ZMK works for wireless keyboards.
Don't quote me on that, though.
The funniest part of the Advantage Pro being wireless, is that you actually need more usb ports than the non-wireless version. To plug the "wireless" version on 2 independent usb ports on the PC if you need to use while charging. While the non-pro only requires 1 usb to connect to a PC and 1 wire to connect a keyboard side to the other.
They don’t have to be charged at the same time, and the right side battery lasts forever. At least if you don’t use the backlight. I keep one of the cords at home, and one at the office because I use it in both locations.
I’ve been using the 360 Pro since the Drop pre-order shipped (October, 2022). I think I’ve charged it 2-3 times. When I needed to charge it, I just plugged it in at the end of the day and left it. Compare that to the BT trackball mouse that needs have its single AA battery changed about every six weeks. I love the features of the mouse, but it’s terrible for battery life.
Got myself a ZSA Moonlander a few months back. It's been an absolute gamechanger. They have a great software (Oryx) which lets you customize the keyboard. It actually flashes to the board itself so it persists, as in it doesn't depend on some shitty software running on the machine. I've tweaked my keyboard to be the perfect (for me) neovim beast. Highly recommend. The Kenesis looks nice as well (I had their split board before, but not the ergonomic one), but the Moonlander is in a league of its own IMO.
💯 agree. I love my Moonlander and it's flashing capabilities! Never have to worry about my key layout and layers no matter which machine I plug that bad boy in.
I've done a repair on a housemates 360 Pro -- replacing a single switch and adding a bodge wire to fix a blown switch took over an hour with 8x magnification going. So if the third-party company is small then I can see the 6 month lead time being realistic
Love the channel. One thing to point out is that the OG kinesis actually copied Maltron blatantly. They had to change the thumb cluster and a few other things (sub optimal) to get around the patent, so Maltron is a superior design. Problem with Maltron is that they don't offer switch options or remapping software. I can see them going broke at this rate.
have you ever tried a Corne keyboard?
it's more DIY, but if you like the Kenesis I wonder if you would like the Corne. Absolute game changer for me. Has a lot fewer keys however, so it's not for everybody.
That's what I have. Have a trackpoint module and a cirque touchpad module on each side. Perhaps more time to set up, but a lot more ergonomic and customizable
I also have a corne with tenting feet and home row mods. It's been a game changer. Having more keys is not always better. Having more customizability through software is more important IMO.
Im waiting on cipulots ec/topre corne kit
Went for the Dygma Defy after testing what their software for programming the layers could do. No flashing firmware, just ship the change config.
I must be too high. I saw the title "LTT Kenesis Review" and assumed LTT released their own keyboard and you're reviewing the launch video!
Having built my own split keyboard using the nice!nano as controllers, I have never had any problems with BT connectivity, also didn't think it could be that good
About the excercise tip: Once when I was still in an office I came and found an awful chair in place of mine. I never had (still never have) back pain, but then immediately got after two days. Guess what literally doing pushups through the day made it go - but then third day I also got rid of the chair (just stole someones haha)
I just ordered the 360 with kailh thick click navys.. got wired too
I bought the glove80 with clicky whites bc kinesis stopped doing the upgrade keyboards deal for a while but now that they're back I had to get the thick clicks.
Don't love the glove tenting solution.. otherwise it's great.. I'm happy that it is very close layout-wise so I'm just getting more and more ready for my 360
I’ve been using a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. Relatively inexpensive, but the wireless dongle has been extremely reliable, and the batteries last forever so charging isn’t an issue. Certainly beasts Bluetooth. That said, I think I need to upgrade to something that gives me more travel on the keys. I’m starting to get pain near my finger tips/ first joint.
The glove80 is light but is extremely well built
Mate the wrist rest budges when u press on it, same as the thumb cluster. It is cheap garbage made in china
@@sorvex9I'm not your mate, buddy.
@@kevinryan2992 I am not your buddy, fam.
Have you tried the Dactyl Manuform? I love it.
The thing is that he compares to the off the self enthusiast keyboard product like the keyboards from keycron that also use qmk but they use vial which is a Browser app that you can give usb access in chome browsers to do all the configuring and flashing of qmk without the user needing to actually use qmk. The thing is that kenesis uses zmk which I don't know if it supports the use of vial.
I love my Moonalnder with their new tenting platform called 'Platform'. I've been very intrigued about the curve of Kinesis and Dactyl Manuform keyboards.
I have a wireless JBL Quantum 810...
The good thing about that headset it can do wireless through a wifi dongle, but also through bluetooth.. but now comes the neat part... It can also do wired through 3.5 mm jack... But ALSO through usb.
And of course for the 3.5 mm jack you don't even have to turn it on.. and as for the usb cable... If the battery is completely drained then you need to plug the usb cable in and audio still works over usb.. but if the battery is completely drained then you do have to wait 2 minutes
4:12, @ThePrimeTime I wish wireless charging were more common for perhaptials, especially if we had a wireless power standard and it was built into desks. You can add this to a table yourself, but it is a major pain. I think linus from linus tech tips routed out the bottom of a table once to accomplish this.
keyboard enthusiasts often aren't willing to do much more than use the qmk configurator that creates a json of their keymap from a GUI, and compile with that keymap through the qmk client (never actually running make), and most will prefer that the keyboard supports via, which just lets them use a GUI and never have to compile anything. the non-engineer people willing to write their keymap in C are the people that want mega customization outside of normal layer/mod tap stuff
This video is perfectly timed. Just yesterday I was saying to myself “I wonder what keyboard Primeagen uses, I’m sure it’s exactly what I want.”
I’ve been looking at the moon lander and the older kinesis keyboards and some other ergonomic keyboards and nothing seemed exactly right but this looks perfect.
I've had it for 2 years. No complaints except needing to update the firmware one time to fix some bluetooth connectivity issues. Took about 20 minutes to do and never had to do anything else since. 100% worth the cost.
I used to use the ergodox and my biggest complaint was travelling with it. I mostly work from home, but would need to go into the office for a few days here and there and it was always a nuisance. I switched to a HHKB and it’s a pleasure to type on and easy to travel with.
That's my main beef with the ErgoDox as well, I just built myself a Corne with choc switches to check if I can adapt to a much smaller keyboard and I think I'll change the controller to make it wireless just so that I don't have to worry with the TRRS cable. If you don't like to DIY, there are other options, like the Corne-ish Zen, ZSA Voyager and the UHK, if you want a "less awkward" keyboard.
Completely agree on wires for keyboard and mouse. There is no functional advantage of wireless, it is purely aesthetic. Wireless on headsets is different there is a functional advantage in headsets being mobile, and wires can be limiting.
Allows you to connect to different devices without unplugging and replugging in the cable, it's actually useful if you have a work / personal machine otherwise you'd need a usb hub to avoid the replugging
There are plenty of reviews saying the Glove 80 is better.
re: Glove80 legs 41:38
I think they are fine and give a lot of flexibility but they can be annoying to adjust correctly. several times now I've had one of the legs just fall off as I'm typing with the maximum tilting angle, they don't feel very stable after a certain height.
The keyboard feels amazing though, and not cheap at all, I love the low profile keycaps. the only other problem is that the palm wrest plastic is glowing a bit after a few months of usage.. which doesn't look nice haha
but the overall comfort is just nuts. best equipment investment i've made for sure
I've used the adv2 for the last 4 years. I switched to it after I started getting pain in the first 2 weeks of a new job (I never had pain for 10 years of heavy computer use and programming before that, but the tasks I was assigned were nutty). The pain never went away, but I could keep having a job. I don't know what happened but something f'd up my fingers, especially my pink. Maybe a micro fracture who knows, I can't even hold a phone anymore. I was definitely someone who would type like a madman sometimes, but somehow my birdbones were fine until then.
I'm a programmer-ish (devopsy role of building ci/cd pipelines and infrastructure automation) and I have never heard about zmk. I love my moonlander and their Oryx keyboard configuration software. I know why qmk and have fiddled around with qmk command line on my shell but never really cared much for it.
for those on the fence about soldered switches and dont want to splurge on the custom switches. i couldnt justify the upcharge for oil kings or the banana splits (or the time it takes) -- the silent pinks are actually kinda bussin. i can type light or heavy handed. sound is kinda hollow but imo its hollow in a good way. i came from a ferris sweep and a jelly epoch and i hand built both of them. the adv360 is a lovely combination of the two. deff doesnt sound as thocky as the epoch but is way more "ergo-bro" and comfier than the sweep. its just a huge joy to type and i would shill till i die. monkeytype while i listened to this btw -- 90wpm eng on recurva
People really should invest in an ergo keyboard. You spend 8 hours a day in front of your computer just at work. That’s like 2000+ hours per year you can theoretically be typing.
I settled on the Moonlander and absolutely love it, can’t even touch another keyboard now. I’ve removed the whole top row and utilized layers. Another level of productivity and comfort it’s insane
regarding charging a wireless keyboard, i only charge my keyboard like 1 time per 2 or 3 months, i use the G915 TKL, i turn off LEDs, thats why its last so long, otherwise it would last like 3 weeks
Thumb is for control,ALT and Space. Sometimes shift if you live dangerously.
Ever considered the productivity boost if we use our toes for typing too? Using 8 or 10 (depending of the configuration as in the video) fingers already in action, adding 10 more toes to the mix could theoretically double our digital efficiency. We're sitting on a 100% untapped resource every day bro
I’ve thought about this too. You could actually do this using a usb-midi foot controller along with your choice of software to translate it
I am a huge fan of the ZSA moon lander. It has also upped my efficiency in my coding.
No, you don't have to have charging cables at all. Unless you need underlit keys. I have a normal wireless keyboard which I use daily that runs on 2xAAA and I only have to change them like once a year. Same for wireless mouse which has 1xAA. I've been using it for almost a year and it still has like 30% left. Going wireless and more general decluttering of my workdesk was the best decision I did in a while..
I’ll have you know that the VS Code short cut to view definitions is CMD+KI 😊
32:50 I said this on the LTT video and I’ll say it again here: Kinesis makes the “Professional” model for enthusiasts who want “power user” features of ZMK/QMK *AND* they make the standard model with QuickSet support for people who just want to do simple remapping of keys. They literally are servicing two very separate demographics with very different internals to their surface-level identical keyboards. “Professional” isn’t a “prestige” badge; it’s “This is for people who need and or want to have extra features.”
I think if there actually _is_ a criticism to make here is that it would be nice if either wired on wireless models could be flashed between QuickSet-compatible and ZMK compatible. I would imagine, however, that this would require a different chipset onboard unless they made the QuickSet-compatible software run on the same chipset that runs the ZMK firmware.
I wonder if Prime ever tried Colemak or Workman? They are layouts that focus on getting your hands into a rhythm or every keeperless alternating your hands.
I wanted to learn about this keyboard but I ended up learning about a subculture of the sweatiest nerds I’ve ever seen. No hate, just an observation.
I have the Advantage360 (non-pro) and have been using various models going back to the Kinesis Classic (got mine in 2001). These are great keyboards though I have to admit, the location of the braces has always felt off. IMO, it feels more natural to map the custom (1-4) keys on the Advantage360 to the open/close curly and straight braces than to curl the 2 weakest fingers down 2 rows every time I need to type a brace...
If you just wanan remap a few things, use via. Most manufacturers put a basic firmware on it out of the box that supports via.
Logitech Lightspeed is wireless. And the PowerPlay mat is wonderful. My G915 could actually kill someone too, it's solid CNC aluminum. It's the ONLY wireless solution that works. But I agree on wired audio. There is ZERO substitute.
Also, regarding 32:50: because accessibility lies in good design. Just because this was originally designed for accountants and typists and because programmers ended up loving it DOES NOT MEAN it SHOULDN'T have accessibility features like a GUI. If someone with an RSI wants to remap their keyboard, asking them to do EVEN MORE typing just to remap it is a bad design choice.
5:17 I have the same standard for laptops. If you pick it up and you don't feel armed, it's probably a tablet, not a computer.
I have both the Advantage and Advantage2. I learned Dvorak in parallel when I got them. Now I context switch based on whether I am using the Kinesis or my gaming keyboard.
As someone with De Quervain’s Tenosynovitis I disagree that doing repetitive tasks with your thumbs is a good idea.
Thumb is built for grip and power, not dexterity
Something i find weird is that I'm extremely comfortable on my IBM model M. Maybe it's just that I have a very "default" body and wrists, or that i don't type 10 hours a day.
the thumb is the best finger in a lot of ways, yet very much underused on a standard keyboard.
I've recently had my right ring finger amputated so might need to switch key layout. Split arrow keys take me back to playing games on my bbc micro where `zx.;` or `az,.` were typically used for direction input.
You should try a corne or something, small keyboard are great, it's so fast and feels great when you get used to it it's like vim motions
About ZMK vs SmartSet approaches - one should have both, without having to choose a different keyboard. With QMK, you can have Via - a way to program the layouts into the keyboard's memory without reflashing and with a GUI (I haven't used it myself, though - I just edit QMK firmware). Same with Keyboardio's Kaleidoscope (which I haven't used either). Turns out ZMK does not have Via, though (not an issue for me, since I don't care about wireless and would be fine with a microcontroller that supports QMK instead).
You know, I see more value in things like the custom layout you made for programming rather then the keyboard itself.
I would love to try this keyboard. I've gotten into building keyboards and love the one I have which is just a TKL, but I don't get why this kinesis is over $400. There's no premium materials. The switch selection is pretty abysmal. It's a fancy plastic mold, so that really leaves most of the innovation cost probably being the PCB and the assembly, but I have a hard time seeing with that's 4x the cost of another decent flat keyboard.
Prime needs to get a microTron/üTron. Have had 3 split boards and oh boy, if I ever saw that one sale...
Topre sounds the absolute best imo